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EQ2 critics about PvP, PvE, phat loot...
sparkatb
Member UncommonPosts: 175
No PvP is a game killer lol, ok yea.. 
I dont play a "fantasy generic" game based on RPG in order to fight other players. If i want that i'll go play Mortal Kombat as that is one of the best PvP games of all time. No RPG game will EVER be a great PvP fight-em-up game, RPG's just isnt a PvP game. Any RPG game with PvP in it is a sorry excuse of a game that has very little content for its players.
In EQ2 you team up with other players, not to fight them. To battle it out against mysterious gross/powerful creatures, beasts and dragons. Being able to explore hundreds of miles is a bonus to see new things and to kill even newer things and meet new people. That is PvE, PvE is not a sense of fighting to achieve the best loot, such as from grinding. If you fight PvE just for the loot then why the f... are you playing the game, oh i know... its because of the PvP (aka WoW) yea that seems very "fun"..
Comments
Except a 2D fighting game has absolutely nothing in common with an MMO.
Nice try at making an analogy, though.
Questions of what constitutes roleplaying aside, are you that insecure about your favoritest game in the whole wide world, that some people you don't know, and will likely never meet, criticizing it sends you into a complete frenzy?
Your blood pressure must be through the roof if you get so worked up everytime someone disagrees with you. You might want to consider unplugging your computer from the internet before you have a massive coronary, because people are going to say mean things about your lil friend EQ2. And judging from your little diatribe here, I don't think you'll survive it. If you continue onward, and decide to go all Travis Bickle, be a pal, and let me know ahead of time. I can cover the story, and do a lovely write up on it.
P.S. Mortal Combat was a pretty crappy fighting game. All it had going for it was the shock value of the fatalities.
Except a 2D fighting game had absolutly lots in common with PvP.
What on this planet are you baffling on about?
Because someone states his oppinion on what EQ2 is and what it isnt, your saying he is stating favouritsm for a game? He has high blood pressure as the result? Whats that i smell...
Looks like im saying bad things about what certain features EQ2 is not part of, which you obviously do not like. Im sorry to dissapoint you, but Thats Just The Way it Is...
P.S. Mortal Kombat was a pretty crappy game? Your blood pressure must be through the roof if you get so worked up everytime someone disagrees with you. You might want to consider unplugging your computer from the internet before you have a massive coronary.
Face facts bumchum, Mortal Kombat was one of the best of the best.
A 2D fighting game may have lots in common with PvP, but it's got nothing to do with PvP in MMO's.
I'd comment on the rest, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Bumchum.
Whats wrong with someone who wants to play a PVP Rpg? PvP does have a palce in many games...
Maybe i dont want to play mortal combat against some douche bag - maybe i want to test the character ive been training and questing with?
I'd argue that you can't have real roleplaying without the possibilty of conflict between players.
I have problems reconciling a High Elf Paladin that worships Tunare grouping up with a Dark Elf Shadowknight that worships Innoruuk, to use EQ as an example.
EQ was the only game you could actually kill your own God, take his loot and not worry about the consequences...
Mithaniel Marr dropped a nice haste belt for his Paladin followers who killed him and the best Warrior sword in the game came from, of course, Rallos Zek who most of the wars followed...
Someone said RolePlay and SOE thought it was Roll-Play - roll your God, take his crap
.
Anymore there's Roleplaying, and then there is role playing. Once upon a time the two terms were synonyous. However with the advent of the CRPG, and especially games like the Final Fantasy series, the term RPG has become watered down to the point of extinction. It's about stats, gear and leveling now, as opposed to creating an alternate persona, and acting out how that character reacts to the world.
Your character is more than just stats, gear, and levels, at least it is if you are actually role playing. Then, I find that the technical restrictions of MMO's at this time still prevent real role play. But then I don't bother to play MMO's to role play, either. That's what pen and paper games are for. And that's why these games are MMOG's, not MMORPGS.
Player vs. Player results
Coldmeat 1 *Winner*
Sparktab -2
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
PvE is for the weak.
PvP is for the enlightened.
What's of the point of getting amazingly bad ass gear if you can't really put it to good use and beat down people? Sure it helps with mobs but the real satisfaction comes from knowing your gear pwns people.
70 people arrive at the lair of the Dragon.
Cleric buffs people, prepares CH macro
Druid passes out his one buff that 3 people ask for, goes to the corner.
Shaman passes out some buffs, fires up slow, prepares last will and testament
70 people move to attack the Dragon
Main tank attacks Dragon
5 Cleric's star CH chain
1 Druid tabs out, and reads MMORPG.com
1 Shaman tries casting slow on the Dragon, after the 5th resist, gets aggro and dies
62 other people stand there looking stupid for the next 3 minutes
After 3 minutes, 62 people attack the Dragon, tank loses aggro
5 Enchanters die in the next 38 seconds
Paladin, and Shadowknight get aggro lock on the Dragon.
Main Tank sits down and starts reading Tolstoy
One hour, 37 minutes, and 14 seconds later the Dragon is dead
Upon inspection, The group finds a No Drop Ranger Breastplate that no one wants, Some random gems, a quest drop which is immediately ninjalooted, and 46 silver pieces.
Certainly sounds heroic to me, where do I sign up?
Well first off, let me say, I would think your skill as a player is what PWNs people, not your gear. Though, that always helps.
Second, PvP or RvR in MMORPGs has its place and can add to the game. I think it was done well in DAoC except for the massive lag on relic raids and such. But, I had a blast killing enemy realm players. It brought an entirely different strategy to the table than PvE. Dueling was never my thing, thats just a way to kill time, or yes...prove your Uberness.
Games can be good without PvP, its not an absolute necessity for me. EQ2 has no plans for it, but I will still play. WoW has plans for it, but I don't think I'll try that unless completely dissapointed by EQ2, which is a distinct possiblity considering SOEs past record.
IF EQ2 makes a PvP server, depending on its rules, I may play there. It's all about HOW its implemented. Just an excuse to kill newbs, or show how awesome I am, is not enough for me. It should have some purpose.
As for the RPG in MMORPG, yeah, thats basically non-existant. And I find the few times I have tried to RP in any MMORPG my efforts are viewed with distaste, people just dont FEEL like it. So most the time I don't. But, when soloing I find the world emersive enough usually to give me a feel of being another person in another world.
Just my 2 cents, flame away.
Everything born must die. All that is, will come to ruin. This is the essence of Doom. So sayeth the Doomsayer.
________________________________
Everything born must die. All that is, will come to ruin. This is the essence of Doom. So sayeth the Doomsayer.
The fact of the matter is AI is PREDICTABLE.
Fighting against other players (especially groups of them wich is what rpg pvp is about) is infinitely more challenging than simply attacking some high level mob using a strategy that is proven to work because it worked the last hundred times you did it.
Every encounter with an opposing person/group/faction has the potential to start progress and end differently than the last time you encountered them. People can learn and change tactics.
Most people who oppose PVP have never really tried it. Or they had their feelings hurt by someone who was insensitive or immature. Either way they dont have a well rounded pvp experience to compare to the ease and convenience (boredom) of the standard PVE (farming mobs for loot) that they have become accustomed to.
ROLEPLAYERS UNITE!!!!!
"we're devils and black sheep, really bad eggs....drink up me hearties yo ho"
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
1 Newbie Level 20 Mage, just off newbie Island.
1 Newbie Level 20 Mage, kills off 21 bandits to reach lvl 22 and enough cash to buy new aromor.
1 Lvl 56 Theif sneaking come upon easy money lvl 21 mage.
Lvl 56 Theif Backstabs.
Lvl 21 Mage, WTF?
Lvl 21 mage returns to body to find cash missing and also back to lvl 20.
"Repeate"
To be honest Core, thats just an example of poor design/implamentation. While that is player vs. player, so its two guys fighting over the spawn of giant rats.
Its safe to say most people here are considering pvp to be group on group, or near equal levels.
And its not alot better than...
Level 21 mage bumps into level 27 mob....
Level 21 mage dies......
Ding, level 20
AI will never be beyond predictability.
There is only a certain number of responses that can be programmed into mob and you will quickly encounter all of them. They can upgrade until they are blue but this fact will not change.
People on the other hand (maybe not YOU or the obviously uncreative people you are used to playing with) will learn and adapt. They are very resourceful and will continue to change their tactics and strategy until they find your weakness then they will exploit it.
You are used to losing and that is fine. Maybe an all PVE game is the way you should go. I mean some people just arent very creative or competetive and thats why its great that they are making games for those kinds of people. Some of us on the other hand just expect a little more from a game
Thats all.
ROLEPLAYERS UNITE!!!!!
"we're devils and black sheep, really bad eggs....drink up me hearties yo ho"
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
An RPG and a fighting game both have two totally different player vs player types. It would be nice if EQ2 had PVP at release (it will come out with it eventually) but I think lack of pvp should mean more player run events for the people, I mean, if your just going to keep leveling, there is no point. You need to put your levels to use, PVPing, getting gear, fighting monsters that are raiding your town...
FFXI was a total bore because the devs never gave you any adventure. EQ2 isnt a PVP game because they are going to give us something to do. Then PVP will come later (thats what I heard)
By the way, PVP is good in MMORPGs because it adds realisticness, it also adds attitude to your character. And Im pretty sure PVP was in Dungeons and Dragons, which is way older than any fighting game.
FFXI- Quit after 10 months
Ultima Online- Quit after 25 months
Ragnarok Online- Quit after a week
Holy smokes man do you know how to space out your sentences? You are killing my eyes.
You keep stating the same things about people as though you have seen it all when you havent. If people were predictable then you would know what they were going to do before they do it and therefore you would never lose a fight.
The fact is you DO lose sometimes wich means something happened that you werent expecting. Thus your "people are just as predictable as AI" argument becomes flawed and ultimately invalid.
It is easy to tell wether or not you are going to lose to a mob. Before the fight is halfway over you can already see who is going to win. This is the biggest flaw in PVE centered games. The reason that the original EQ needs new content so often is that people dont want to fight the same mobs anymore. The mobs are only interesting to fight a few times then they just become tedious so you go find one you havent fought yet.
Games with an option to PVP especially ones that offer some reward for faction VS faction fighting like WOW does, offer the players a chance to take a break from the boring level grind and a chance to do something exciting and challenging.
ROLEPLAYERS UNITE!!!!!
"we're devils and black sheep, really bad eggs....drink up me hearties yo ho"
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
This whole discussion could have been rendered moot before it had even started if EQ2 had been designed properly. This is the year 2004, and including PvP and/or RvR in an MMORPG is hardly a quantum leap of a programming feat. Some people like PvP and some don't, so the logical design decision is to have both PvP and non-PvP servers. Why hasn't this been done?
There are dangers in deciding you like something before you've even tried it, but making excuses for its blatant shortcomings is another thing altogether. Especially when you have to bring Mortal Kombat into it.