"lolI laughed at this because it looks true from the videos.
Just curious, did you play the game yet?"
I was in the beta since 110 - 111 but after build 113 came out I couldn't do anything but troll fanbois and speak the facts about why the game sucked in its current state because I couldn't even connect to it.
After awhile I got tired of the fanbois trolling negative threads so I just trolled them back and got banned eventually still a load of crap though because even though they pm'd me saying they were doing the best they could they were blatantly in favour of the fanbois.
Give me 10 minutes of a gameplay video or the actual game for 10 minutes and I can read the mechanics like a book depending on how complex they are, this game is horribly broken, the only thing I was remotely impressed by was the archery and the magic when it wasn't just grinding so you could actually use it.
The gap between veterans and newbies was too big, so it was instantly flawed and so are thousands of MMO's to date for that reason, the bigger gap you have between players using levels, skills whatever, the harder it is to balance and the less likely it is to last because players will get sick of either always winning or never being able to win just because of their statistics.
Real gamers don't want grinding, they want fun and grinding isn't fun, its just a second job.
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
now let me make a normal lawl to those who responded.
Lets not compare video games to rl senarios plz.
Regardles what game you play you will be pressing buttons. Either it be clicking a mouse key or pressing the f keys. you will use some sort of movement ect. All games are the same. you mash a button and your char does somthing.
What differs Dfo from the majority of the other mmos is that its action oriented and depends more on player skill.
So if your faster strafing and clicking your mouse, use your skills pots than the other person your going to win. the fact remains your still clicking.
The only thing that can make a game work like rl senarios if that they make a full suit that makes your char respond to your movement. Till then all your doing is the same as every other game that has been made. (save those wii games where you swing to do somthing)
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
Not to mention the weight of the sword, the size of the sword, and what the sword is shaped like really can make a difference in melee. I was to understand the combat on this game was supposed to rival Mount & Blade.... please go on the Mount & Blade forums and read how into realism the posters get there to get the developers to make improvements to enhance the reality of combat.
Mount&Blade is NOT an online game. Many people compare Mount&Blade combat with combat inMMOs when they shouldn't. Why doesn't anybody ask those devs in M&B forums if they could incorporate these moves in an M&B MMO and how easy that would be client server wise?
That seed was planted by the devs themselves unfortunately,and then paraded round by the fanbase.Thats why a lot of us were pretty shocked at how basic darkfalls combat is when we were told by the fans it was going to be complex and revolutionary.A combat system is not based around 2 attack animations with a broken block mechanic and no evasion buttons.
In a real sword fight,if we really must go into realism with this,people dont stand there swinging horizontally at each other.They use all kinds of different variations to break past each others guard-look at fencing for the most 'real' standpoint.
As for M&B,its actually going to be made online in the future,thats what the team are working on right now.
Mount and Blade is a husband and wife team in Turkey (I believe it's Turkey, I may be mistaken). Husband and wife. That's it. One dude doing all the coding, one bird doing all the writing and some art. I'm not sure where you heard that it was being made into an MMO, but there is no "team" working on anything. At best, that dude and his wife are getting hired on by a developer to work on some other title because they've got moxy and vision, just no means with which to achieve anything more than what you see in M&B currently.
And while we're on the topic of small developers: Adventurine, for the vast majority of the game's history (read: seven years), was, like, six dudes in some apartment in Greece, fellas. They built this thing slowly, restarting as often as time and outside technological progress outstripped their ability to code the game, both from an experience and skill perspective, and from a time and availability perspective. They had regular jobs, Darkfall was a labor of love. If you're not a developer it might be difficult to realize fully just how inefficient it is to code the way that they coded ... with long gaps between progress due to "real world" pressures like families, bills, etc ... and then to know, each time that you must take a hiatus to make some money or whatever, that when you come back, your code will be that much further away from the "industry standard."
As to your original claim: I've been following DFO for nearly six or seven years now and I can't recall anything being stated officially regarding combat and the model put forth in Mount and Blade. Since Mount and Blade didn't exist when the original DFO forums went up and the original manifestos were published, I don't really see how they could have referenced it ... what I *do* recall is a lot of wishful thinking on the forums. I also recall a very poorly moderated community that was constantly hypnotising itself into believing its own lies. Random "the devs said in some post that I can't find" threads would be taken as gospel for years until a dev finally decided to say "I don't know what you're talking about. That's now how [featureset] will work." All that they ever actually promised was a game that was all PVP, no PVE, no content, no NPCs, no safe-zones. A total sandbox. Anyone who has read the forums since they were first established will tell you that there is no way that the finished product was going to include intricate combat or amazing graphics -- not because the original vision for the game was super realistic, but because we all knew it was just a handful of dudes in Greece, trying their best to make something awesome. As the developers and artists behind DFO, Adventurine was right to aim high initially. That's how greatness happens, sometimes. But as a fan or consumer, one has to be grounded in reality when one chooses to emotionally invest themself into such an endeavor. You have to love the concept, not necessarily the first draft.
My original point (the one I meant to write when I hit "reply" is this: we should all try to keep things in perspective. That either one of these teams managed to get anything to market at all is fucking incredible and a triumph for independent game developers everywhere. We should be encouraged by their achievements. Once indepdenent developers can get fresh and unedited ideas (read: ideas untouched by corporate methodologies) to the market, we as consumers are in a glorious place. We can have our pick of games, across a broad spectrum ... from polished to downright dirty, and find our own happy place therein. More importantly, the developers with lots of money are exposed to intellectual competition, which in-turn, drives their products to be that much better in the future. Sometimes. That's the best-case scenario anyway ... sometimes EA just gets hungry and eats up an indie just to stave off the selection/market pressures that much longer.
In DF there's no difference if you hit someone in the head or the feet, its just the back and the front that makes the difference, leading to melee being a mad dash trying to hit the opponents' back. In DF melee the only thing you can basically do is circle strafe, like in CS
If all you do is sprint around or circle strafe, you will get owned by a player that knows what they are doing.
_______________________________________________ Games looking forward to: Fallen Earth, Mortal Online
The noob formally not known as not being the formally not unkown known APEist; The Stone Cold Killer of Tarq.
if anyone thinks melee is just mouse bashing.. pm me and we will have a duel
Oh no, there is more than just mouse bashing, there is running and jumping, potion spamming and exploiting. It takes skill to master all of these things I agree.
And knockback and weapon reach, and weapon speed differences, and weapon vs armor weaknesses to exploit (crush is strong against plate), and blocking and parrying, and dodging attacks..... but if you want to just hop up and down while I kill you that's fine.
if anyone thinks melee is just mouse bashing.. pm me and we will have a duel
Oh no, there is more than just mouse bashing, there is running and jumping, potion spamming and exploiting. It takes skill to master all of these things I agree.
lol i still don't understand how the devs could be so stupid in making the pot cooldown so low, did they never play an mmo before or something?
The cooldown is like 45 seconds. It's not short, considering the effect.
The system is fine.
_______________________________________________ Games looking forward to: Fallen Earth, Mortal Online
The noob formally not known as not being the formally not unkown known APEist; The Stone Cold Killer of Tarq.
My original point (the one I meant to write when I hit "reply" is this: we should all try to keep things in perspective. That either one of these teams managed to get anything to market at all is fucking incredible and a triumph for independent game developers everywhere. We should be encouraged by their achievements. Once indepdenent developers can get fresh and unedited ideas (read: ideas untouched by corporate methodologies) to the market, we as consumers are in a glorious place. We can have our pick of games, across a broad spectrum ... from polished to downright dirty, and find our own happy place therein. More importantly, the developers with lots of money are exposed to intellectual competition, which in-turn, drives their products to be that much better in the future. Sometimes. That's the best-case scenario anyway ... sometimes EA just gets hungry and eats up an indie just to stave off the selection/market pressures that much longer.
You speak truth here. Thank you for your insight and common sense.
Haha true. Melee still takes alot of skill to be great at it. ALOT..........naturally.
it does. i have a great 1v1 video of DF duels i'll upload to youtube soon. much easier to see the real skill of DF melee when you watch good players duelling.
DF's combat system is HEAVILY skewed towards those with twitch/FPS/aiming skills, those without much twitch skill, son't like it much, and WILL qq about it.
"I'm not sure where you heard that it was being made into an MMO, but there is no "team" working on anything. At best"
read properly, I said that they had taken the concepts of the game
"Adventurine" It's spelled 'Aventurine' after the Aventurine stone I presume.
"More importantly, the developers with lots of money are exposed to intellectual competition, which in-turn, drives their products to be that much better in the future. Sometimes. That's the best-case scenario anyway ... sometimes EA just gets hungry and eats up an indie just to stave off the selection/market pressures that much longer."
There is very little point to most of your post except this, also blaming EA for your problems is pretty ignorant, yes I hate them too, they are utter assholes and in fact when Spore came out I practically spread a crusade against them because of the way they were screwing the game over, but I will NOT go easy on any company any more in the games industry that think they can get away by taking millions of dollars from consumers and investors no less because that is realistically where all this money is coming from and pissing it away on god knows what while leaving the game in the dust when it could be great.
I will not stand for incompetence in games developers anymore especially now that we are in recession, if two or three developers can make a game like World of Goo and price it at a brilliantly reasonable 20 pounds ( in fact it was less than that last time I checked I'm just rounding it up ) then I don't know whats fucking stopping a multi-million dollar company with 30+ employees from doing the same.
While I do not think that Aventurine are scamming anyone yet I will not stand for low quality products and bullshit anymore than I would stand for a publisher to give me low products and bullshit. Not only that Tasos has already made the biggest mistake a developer can make and one such mistake that SOE made when developing a game and that is to blame the playerbase for the problems they are having with the game.
"And knockback and weapon reach, and weapon speed differences, and weapon vs armor weaknesses to exploit (crush is strong against plate), and blocking and parrying, and dodging attacks..... but if you want to just hop up and down while I kill you that's fine."
This is either broken or lazily fixed, stop spreading bullshit or give me proof in a gameplay video, yes you can run around in for different directions but what good is that if you are melee?
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
In DF there's no difference if you hit someone in the head or the feet, its just the back and the front that makes the difference, leading to melee being a mad dash trying to hit the opponents' back. In DF melee the only thing you can basically do is circle strafe, like in CS
If all you do is sprint around or circle strafe, you will get owned by a player that knows what they are doing.
So please tell me why 99% of the fights i had in beta consisted of people doing exactly that?
Please explain why when i attempted actual tactics i lost yet when i 'sprinted and circle strafed' i won more often than not?
Please elaborate as to what amazing tactics you would use then and dont say 'id block while you waste your stamina' cause if you stop moving in DF combat you die, the enemy (if he has a brain) just sprint hops round the side of you exploiting the painfully forgiving hitboxes and hits you in the side which counts as the back if you strike at the right time. Also if the enemy has a brain hell have a stack of stamina pots and food and wont run out of stamina, at least not before one of yous dead.
I wish people would stop refuting the claims that DFs combat is bad with this same tired and redundant epeen waving of 'well fight me ill show you how harcore i am!!'
Naked fights or similar gear level fights come down to who can circle strafe best, who has the most pots and who can time his jousting hits the best as you both run about like twats.
Not to mention the weight of the sword, the size of the sword, and what the sword is shaped like really can make a difference in melee. I was to understand the combat on this game was supposed to rival Mount & Blade.... please go on the Mount & Blade forums and read how into realism the posters get there to get the developers to make improvements to enhance the reality of combat.
Mount&Blade is NOT an online game. Many people compare Mount&Blade combat with combat inMMOs when they shouldn't. Why doesn't anybody ask those devs in M&B forums if they could incorporate these moves in an M&B MMO and how easy that would be client server wise?
That seed was planted by the devs themselves unfortunately,and then paraded round by the fanbase.Thats why a lot of us were pretty shocked at how basic darkfalls combat is when we were told by the fans it was going to be complex and revolutionary.A combat system is not based around 2 attack animations with a broken block mechanic and no evasion buttons.
In a real sword fight,if we really must go into realism with this,people dont stand there swinging horizontally at each other.They use all kinds of different variations to break past each others guard-look at fencing for the most 'real' standpoint.
As for M&B,its actually going to be made online in the future,thats what the team are working on right now.
Mount and Blade is a husband and wife team in Turkey (I believe it's Turkey, I may be mistaken). Husband and wife. That's it. One dude doing all the coding, one bird doing all the writing and some art. I'm not sure where you heard that it was being made into an MMO, but there is no "team" working on anything. At best, that dude and his wife are getting hired on by a developer to work on some other title because they've got moxy and vision, just no means with which to achieve anything more than what you see in M&B currently.
And while we're on the topic of small developers: Adventurine, for the vast majority of the game's history (read: seven years), was, like, six dudes in some apartment in Greece, fellas. They built this thing slowly, restarting as often as time and outside technological progress outstripped their ability to code the game, both from an experience and skill perspective, and from a time and availability perspective. They had regular jobs, Darkfall was a labor of love. If you're not a developer it might be difficult to realize fully just how inefficient it is to code the way that they coded ... with long gaps between progress due to "real world" pressures like families, bills, etc ... and then to know, each time that you must take a hiatus to make some money or whatever, that when you come back, your code will be that much further away from the "industry standard."
As to your original claim: I've been following DFO for nearly six or seven years now and I can't recall anything being stated officially regarding combat and the model put forth in Mount and Blade. Since Mount and Blade didn't exist when the original DFO forums went up and the original manifestos were published, I don't really see how they could have referenced it ... what I *do* recall is a lot of wishful thinking on the forums. I also recall a very poorly moderated community that was constantly hypnotising itself into believing its own lies. Random "the devs said in some post that I can't find" threads would be taken as gospel for years until a dev finally decided to say "I don't know what you're talking about. That's now how [featureset] will work." All that they ever actually promised was a game that was all PVP, no PVE, no content, no NPCs, no safe-zones. A total sandbox. Anyone who has read the forums since they were first established will tell you that there is no way that the finished product was going to include intricate combat or amazing graphics -- not because the original vision for the game was super realistic, but because we all knew it was just a handful of dudes in Greece, trying their best to make something awesome. As the developers and artists behind DFO, Adventurine was right to aim high initially. That's how greatness happens, sometimes. But as a fan or consumer, one has to be grounded in reality when one chooses to emotionally invest themself into such an endeavor. You have to love the concept, not necessarily the first draft.
My original point (the one I meant to write when I hit "reply" is this: we should all try to keep things in perspective. That either one of these teams managed to get anything to market at all is fucking incredible and a triumph for independent game developers everywhere. We should be encouraged by their achievements. Once indepdenent developers can get fresh and unedited ideas (read: ideas untouched by corporate methodologies) to the market, we as consumers are in a glorious place. We can have our pick of games, across a broad spectrum ... from polished to downright dirty, and find our own happy place therein. More importantly, the developers with lots of money are exposed to intellectual competition, which in-turn, drives their products to be that much better in the future. Sometimes. That's the best-case scenario anyway ... sometimes EA just gets hungry and eats up an indie just to stave off the selection/market pressures that much longer.
Very good, well thought out write up. I agree with most of these things.
One thing I would like to clarify is that mount and blade is actually going to go multiplayer. It will not be massivley multiplayer or co-op campaign.
"[Armagan Yavuz] It will be similar to FPS multiplayer games. The network architecture will be based on the client-server model, and players will be able to run their own servers. We may also run some official servers, though we don’t have any solid plans for that yet."
More like they plop you down onto a battlefield with other players and you duke it out until you die. I'm still looking forward to this as I enjoy the Mount and Blade combat more than DFO beta's combat, but DFO has the advantage of being an MMO.
Originally posted by Rodhull Originally posted by APEist Originally posted by rageagainst In DF there's no difference if you hit someone in the head or the feet, its just the back and the front that makes the difference, leading to melee being a mad dash trying to hit the opponents' back. In DF melee the only thing you can basically do is circle strafe, like in CS
If all you do is sprint around or circle strafe, you will get owned by a player that knows what they are doing.
So please tell me why 99% of the fights i had in beta consisted of people doing exactly that?
Please explain why when i attempted actual tactics i lost yet when i 'sprinted and circle strafed' i won more often than not?
Please elaborate as to what amazing tactics you would use then and dont say 'id block while you waste your stamina' cause if you stop moving in DF combat you die, the enemy (if he has a brain) just sprint hops round the side of you exploiting the painfully forgiving hitboxes and hits you in the side which counts as the back if you strike at the right time. Also if the enemy has a brain hell have a stack of stamina pots and food and wont run out of stamina, at least not before one of yous dead. I wish people would stop refuting the claims that DFs combat is bad with this same tired and redundant epeen waving of 'well fight me ill show you how harcore i am!!' Naked fights or similar gear level fights come down to who can circle strafe best, who has the most pots and who can time his jousting hits the best as you both run about like twats.
LMAO
Twats generally don't run around, but I agree with the general gist of what you are saying.
Not to mention the weight of the sword, the size of the sword, and what the sword is shaped like really can make a difference in melee. I was to understand the combat on this game was supposed to rival Mount & Blade.... please go on the Mount & Blade forums and read how into realism the posters get there to get the developers to make improvements to enhance the reality of combat.
Mount&Blade is NOT an online game. Many people compare Mount&Blade combat with combat inMMOs when they shouldn't. Why doesn't anybody ask those devs in M&B forums if they could incorporate these moves in an M&B MMO and how easy that would be client server wise?
That seed was planted by the devs themselves unfortunately,and then paraded round by the fanbase.Thats why a lot of us were pretty shocked at how basic darkfalls combat is when we were told by the fans it was going to be complex and revolutionary.A combat system is not based around 2 attack animations with a broken block mechanic and no evasion buttons.
In a real sword fight,if we really must go into realism with this,people dont stand there swinging horizontally at each other.They use all kinds of different variations to break past each others guard-look at fencing for the most 'real' standpoint.
As for M&B,its actually going to be made online in the future,thats what the team are working on right now.
Mount and Blade is a husband and wife team in Turkey (I believe it's Turkey, I may be mistaken). Husband and wife. That's it. One dude doing all the coding, one bird doing all the writing and some art. I'm not sure where you heard that it was being made into an MMO, but there is no "team" working on anything. At best, that dude and his wife are getting hired on by a developer to work on some other title because they've got moxy and vision, just no means with which to achieve anything more than what you see in M&B currently.
And while we're on the topic of small developers: Adventurine, for the vast majority of the game's history (read: seven years), was, like, six dudes in some apartment in Greece, fellas. They built this thing slowly, restarting as often as time and outside technological progress outstripped their ability to code the game, both from an experience and skill perspective, and from a time and availability perspective. They had regular jobs, Darkfall was a labor of love. If you're not a developer it might be difficult to realize fully just how inefficient it is to code the way that they coded ... with long gaps between progress due to "real world" pressures like families, bills, etc ... and then to know, each time that you must take a hiatus to make some money or whatever, that when you come back, your code will be that much further away from the "industry standard."
As to your original claim: I've been following DFO for nearly six or seven years now and I can't recall anything being stated officially regarding combat and the model put forth in Mount and Blade. Since Mount and Blade didn't exist when the original DFO forums went up and the original manifestos were published, I don't really see how they could have referenced it ... what I *do* recall is a lot of wishful thinking on the forums. I also recall a very poorly moderated community that was constantly hypnotising itself into believing its own lies. Random "the devs said in some post that I can't find" threads would be taken as gospel for years until a dev finally decided to say "I don't know what you're talking about. That's now how [featureset] will work." All that they ever actually promised was a game that was all PVP, no PVE, no content, no NPCs, no safe-zones. A total sandbox. Anyone who has read the forums since they were first established will tell you that there is no way that the finished product was going to include intricate combat or amazing graphics -- not because the original vision for the game was super realistic, but because we all knew it was just a handful of dudes in Greece, trying their best to make something awesome. As the developers and artists behind DFO, Adventurine was right to aim high initially. That's how greatness happens, sometimes. But as a fan or consumer, one has to be grounded in reality when one chooses to emotionally invest themself into such an endeavor. You have to love the concept, not necessarily the first draft.
My original point (the one I meant to write when I hit "reply" is this: we should all try to keep things in perspective. That either one of these teams managed to get anything to market at all is fucking incredible and a triumph for independent game developers everywhere. We should be encouraged by their achievements. Once indepdenent developers can get fresh and unedited ideas (read: ideas untouched by corporate methodologies) to the market, we as consumers are in a glorious place. We can have our pick of games, across a broad spectrum ... from polished to downright dirty, and find our own happy place therein. More importantly, the developers with lots of money are exposed to intellectual competition, which in-turn, drives their products to be that much better in the future. Sometimes. That's the best-case scenario anyway ... sometimes EA just gets hungry and eats up an indie just to stave off the selection/market pressures that much longer.
Very good, well thought out write up. I agree with most of these things.
One thing I would like to clarify is that mount and blade is actually going to go multiplayer. It will not be massivley multiplayer or co-op campaign.
"[Armagan Yavuz] It will be similar to FPS multiplayer games. The network architecture will be based on the client-server model, and players will be able to run their own servers. We may also run some official servers, though we don’t have any solid plans for that yet."
More like they plop you down onto a battlefield with other players and you duke it out until you die. I'm still looking forward to this as I enjoy the Mount and Blade combat more than DFO beta's combat, but DFO has the advantage of being an MMO.
I hadn't read/heard that, but that's very cool. I, too, look forward to that sort of mechanic for M&B. It's a really terrific engine. There's a similar game built on the Steam engine ... the name is escaping me, but it's essentially Battlefiled Oblivion. The combat mechanics are nowhere near as detailed and specialized as M&B however.
And to whoever replied to my previous post with remarks about Tasos being a tool: I couldn't agree more. That man has done more harm to Aventurine's (thank you for correcting my spelling) cause than anyone short of the rather mercurial forum mods (Brannoc, I'm looking at you ... but I know you're not a bad dude at-heart, just a guy with an impossible job). His constant and transparent stream of bullshit and spin has sickened me for years -- most companies replace their public relations agent every so often because after a while, they run out of credibility as spin evaporates into dust again and again; leaving Tasos in the hot seat after he has repeatedly failed to exhibit any competency in damage control or community outreach is their biggest mistake to-date.
As to your original claim: I've been following DFO for nearly six or seven years now and I can't recall anything being stated officially regarding combat and the model put forth in Mount and Blade.
<@Teth>; I will take your word on it, seeing as I really enjoyed Mount & Blade melee in TPV
<Claus|Dev> yea teth, M&B works very well
<Claus|Dev> we are very close to that
and
<TBC-Captain> so Claus...we have to ask...on a scale from 1 - 10, how close is DF combat to Mount and Blade...and frankly...are there mounts like in M&B?
Not to mention the weight of the sword, the size of the sword, and what the sword is shaped like really can make a difference in melee. I was to understand the combat on this game was supposed to rival Mount & Blade.... please go on the Mount & Blade forums and read how into realism the posters get there to get the developers to make improvements to enhance the reality of combat.
Mount&Blade is NOT an online game. Many people compare Mount&Blade combat with combat inMMOs when they shouldn't. Why doesn't anybody ask those devs in M&B forums if they could incorporate these moves in an M&B MMO and how easy that would be client server wise?
That seed was planted by the devs themselves unfortunately,and then paraded round by the fanbase.Thats why a lot of us were pretty shocked at how basic darkfalls combat is when we were told by the fans it was going to be complex and revolutionary.A combat system is not based around 2 attack animations with a broken block mechanic and no evasion buttons.
In a real sword fight,if we really must go into realism with this,people dont stand there swinging horizontally at each other.They use all kinds of different variations to break past each others guard-look at fencing for the most 'real' standpoint.
As for M&B,its actually going to be made online in the future,thats what the team are working on right now.
Mount and Blade is a husband and wife team in Turkey (I believe it's Turkey, I may be mistaken). Husband and wife. That's it. One dude doing all the coding, one bird doing all the writing and some art. I'm not sure where you heard that it was being made into an MMO, but there is no "team" working on anything. At best, that dude and his wife are getting hired on by a developer to work on some other title because they've got moxy and vision, just no means with which to achieve anything more than what you see in M&B currently.
And while we're on the topic of small developers: Adventurine, for the vast majority of the game's history (read: seven years), was, like, six dudes in some apartment in Greece, fellas. They built this thing slowly, restarting as often as time and outside technological progress outstripped their ability to code the game, both from an experience and skill perspective, and from a time and availability perspective. They had regular jobs, Darkfall was a labor of love. If you're not a developer it might be difficult to realize fully just how inefficient it is to code the way that they coded ... with long gaps between progress due to "real world" pressures like families, bills, etc ... and then to know, each time that you must take a hiatus to make some money or whatever, that when you come back, your code will be that much further away from the "industry standard."
As to your original claim: I've been following DFO for nearly six or seven years now and I can't recall anything being stated officially regarding combat and the model put forth in Mount and Blade. Since Mount and Blade didn't exist when the original DFO forums went up and the original manifestos were published, I don't really see how they could have referenced it ... what I *do* recall is a lot of wishful thinking on the forums. I also recall a very poorly moderated community that was constantly hypnotising itself into believing its own lies. Random "the devs said in some post that I can't find" threads would be taken as gospel for years until a dev finally decided to say "I don't know what you're talking about. That's now how [featureset] will work." All that they ever actually promised was a game that was all PVP, no PVE, no content, no NPCs, no safe-zones. A total sandbox. Anyone who has read the forums since they were first established will tell you that there is no way that the finished product was going to include intricate combat or amazing graphics -- not because the original vision for the game was super realistic, but because we all knew it was just a handful of dudes in Greece, trying their best to make something awesome. As the developers and artists behind DFO, Adventurine was right to aim high initially. That's how greatness happens, sometimes. But as a fan or consumer, one has to be grounded in reality when one chooses to emotionally invest themself into such an endeavor. You have to love the concept, not necessarily the first draft.
My original point (the one I meant to write when I hit "reply" is this: we should all try to keep things in perspective. That either one of these teams managed to get anything to market at all is fucking incredible and a triumph for independent game developers everywhere. We should be encouraged by their achievements. Once indepdenent developers can get fresh and unedited ideas (read: ideas untouched by corporate methodologies) to the market, we as consumers are in a glorious place. We can have our pick of games, across a broad spectrum ... from polished to downright dirty, and find our own happy place therein. More importantly, the developers with lots of money are exposed to intellectual competition, which in-turn, drives their products to be that much better in the future. Sometimes. That's the best-case scenario anyway ... sometimes EA just gets hungry and eats up an indie just to stave off the selection/market pressures that much longer.
I never stated it was "being made into an mmo",I said it was going to be online.And come on,you cant blame the fans for making things up.Tasos has been coming out with allsorts over the last few years.remember the one about mobs that smell you in the air,and can track you from miles away?
if anyone thinks melee is just mouse bashing.. pm me and we will have a duel
Oh no, there is more than just mouse bashing, there is running and jumping, potion spamming and exploiting. It takes skill to master all of these things I agree.
You can't spam potions and food anymore.
I haven't ever seen any exploits when it comes to pvp except fixed (hopefully for good ) sync issues.
Try to run too much and jump to much and you will run out of stamina before your enemy and then you are as good as dead.
Block is fast and responsive ( AT LAST GOD DAMN IT ).
You have to learn how to time your blows and not miss, each blow eats your stamina.
Learn to block incoming blows, for example instead 20 dmg you will get 3, you can block arrows as well to get closer to attacking you archer. You can't block all the time because it will suck your stamina dry.
Different weapons eat different amount of stamina, do different damage and have different reach.
You should always seek oportunity to circle around your enemy and attack him from a side or preferably from a back.
You have to learn how to use height and size difference when you fight your enemy - you can actually duck and avoid that way some horizontal blows if you are short enough or you are on lower ground.
You should ambush your enemy and attack from a back with ranged weapon or magic to get advantage.
You should use terrain to avoid hits and as an escape opportunity.
Use any opportunity to hit multiple opponents with your magic, melee attacks and avoid hitting friends.
Learn how to act as a group in pve and pvp encounters.
Combat is enjoyable and much more exciting then any MMO I played, that's probably because of FPS elements.
And BTW try to kill in WoW or WAR anybody on end game or middle level with your 10 lvl character or even with two friends. Good luck.
As to your original claim: I've been following DFO for nearly six or seven years now and I can't recall anything being stated officially regarding combat and the model put forth in Mount and Blade.
<@Teth>; I will take your word on it, seeing as I really enjoyed Mount & Blade melee in TPV
<Claus|Dev> yea teth, M&B works very well
<Claus|Dev> we are very close to that
and
<TBC-Captain> so Claus...we have to ask...on a scale from 1 - 10, how close is DF combat to Mount and Blade...and frankly...are there mounts like in M&B?
As it stands, it's great that manual aiming is in, but combat is alot more like wack-a-mole that wacks you back then M&B.
Maybe someone should have asked 'how close is DF combat to Wack-a-mole?'
TBC-Captain ... too funny. That's my boy; I was the Lt of TBC for a long time. The Black Company has long awaited the release of Darkfall, to be sure.
But, still, those are pretty nebulous questions and the answers are vague, at best. What aspect of M&B combat were they talking about? The pixel-collision system? The moving your mouse to the right to strike on the right side of your opponent? The weapons being expendable and mundane? The combat happening from horseback, including archery?
I'm sure that there are similarities ... 7.23? I mean, he obviously was joking with his answer because the question itself (no offence, Capt), was pretty poorly constructed. "On a scale of 1-10, how similar is this hotdog to a muffin?" I mean, they're both food ... you eat them the same way, more or less ... how do you quantify or qualify an answer to that question using only the numbers 1 through 10?
Anyway, you've made your point all the same ... if they didn't want people to think that they had directional controls on a per-swing basis, I suppose Claus should have been more specific in his answers. Which only goes back to a sentiment I've maintained for years: the developers aren't supposed to be good at PR, they're supposed to be locked in a dungeon, coding. But this is a trend we will see more and more of as indie devs get their act together (in other words, it may get worse before it gets better): they know how to program, but they work on such shoestring budgets that they can't afford to staff the "soft" positions in a company, like a Publicist or a PR manager or a CR Manager, etc. So you get devs who know what they *want* to program speaking with an audience without an edit button or a handler.
This is one way in which Funcom and CCP have always impressed me. Gaute Gotinger (sp?) made some early mistakes with AO, but he learned from those errors and went on to become a very good game director, who could double effectively as a PR agent and spokesman for his titles.
Originally posted by Blindchance Originally posted by xaldraxius
Originally posted by EndDream if anyone thinks melee is just mouse bashing.. pm me and we will have a duel
Oh no, there is more than just mouse bashing, there is running and jumping, potion spamming and exploiting. It takes skill to master all of these things I agree. You can't spam potions and food anymore. I haven't ever seen any exploits when it comes to pvp except fixed (hopefully for good ) sync issues. Try to run too much and jump to much and you will run out of stamina before your enemy and then you are as good as dead. Block is fast and responsive ( AT LAST GOD DAMN IT ).
You have to learn how to time your blows and not miss, each blow eats your stamina. Learn to block incoming blows, for example instead 20 dmg you will get 3, you can block arrows as well to get closer to attacking you archer. You can't block all the time because it will suck your stamina dry. Different weapons eat different amount of stamina, do different damage and have different reach. You should always seek oportunity to circle around your enemy and attack him from a side or preferably from a back. You have to learn how to use height and size difference when you fight your enemy - you can actually duck and avoid that way some horizontal blows if you are short enough or you are on lower ground. You should ambush your enemy and attack from a back with ranged weapon or magic to get advantage. You should use terrain to avoid hits and as an escape opportunity. Use any opportunity to hit multiple opponents with your magic, melee attacks and avoid hitting friends. Learn how to act as a group in pve and pvp encounters. Combat is enjoyable and much more exciting then any MMO I played, that's probably because of FPS elements. And BTW try to kill in WoW or WAR anybody on end game or middle level with your 10 lvl character or even with two friends. Good luck.
Hmmm.. sounds like they are improving things a lot since what I heard about beta. Thanks, and thanks for providing this info without being a dick. This is the kind of response that helps a game out rather than making the people playing it sound like elitist knobgobblers.
I think this is one of the most creative attack systems. Similar to Darkfall in that it requires movement and targeting and doesn't just lock on and use some crazy formula to decide if you hit or not.
<@Teth>; I will take your word on it, seeing as I really enjoyed Mount & Blade melee in TPV
the answer
<Claus|Dev> yea teth, M&B works very well
<Claus|Dev> we are very close to that
Then
so Claus...we have to ask...on a scale from 1 - 10, how close is DF combat to Mount and Blade...and frankly...are there mounts like in M&B?
answer
<+Claus|Dev> m&b similarity is.. 7?
<+Claus|Dev> how do I answer that?
<+Claus|Dev> 7.23
He rated its similarity at a seven.He didnt say "oh no,it wont be similar to that at all" or anything like that.He said they were "very close". Im sure if you dug around you'd find much more on the subject about how similar it was going to be abnd how good the combat was going to be in general,but as WSImike said,its just like doing a 180.
The question was <@Teth>; I will take your word on it, seeing as I really enjoyed Mount & Blade melee in TPV the answer <Claus|Dev> yea teth, M&B works very well
<Claus|Dev> we are very close to that
Then so Claus...we have to ask...on a scale from 1 - 10, how close is DF combat to Mount and Blade...and frankly...are there mounts like in M&B? answer <+Claus|Dev> m&b similarity is.. 7?
<+Claus|Dev> how do I answer that?
<+Claus|Dev> 7.23 He rated its similarity at a seven.He didnt say "oh no,it wont be similar to that at all" or anything like that.He said they were "very close". Im sure if you dug around you'd find much more on the subject about how similar it was going to be abnd how good the combat was going to be in general,but as WSImike said,its just like doing a 180.
It IS very close to M&B. You aim your sword, you aim your bow, the arrows are effected by flight patterns, sword works in the same way.
What IS missing, is momentum based damage, and being able to hold your attack before swinging (and the way directional swings work, but I think directional swings (theres only 3 directions in Darkfall) and momentum based damage would be extremely hard to pull off in a MASSIVE MMO. Limitations of tech.
From the sound of things, combat has improved a lot since beta, but even in beta I found that winning combat took a lot more than just spamming your mouse button.
This is the first MMO where I've had to use advantages in flanking, cover, and positioning to win. Granted, they were useful in other MMO's, but not nearly so much so as I've found them to be in the beta for this game.
I remember dancing around trees, rocks, and other players to frustrate my attackers. I remember hiding behind a shield to recover a bit of health while my enemies spent their stamina uselessly. I remember one on one battles that would see both myself and my opponent backing up and trying to circle around one another while our stamina regenerated. I remember dashing from rock to tree, using the land as cover as I advanced on a caster's position.
I found these things worked amazingly well against the people who just spammed sprint & click.
Comments
"lolI laughed at this because it looks true from the videos.
Just curious, did you play the game yet?"
I was in the beta since 110 - 111 but after build 113 came out I couldn't do anything but troll fanbois and speak the facts about why the game sucked in its current state because I couldn't even connect to it.
After awhile I got tired of the fanbois trolling negative threads so I just trolled them back and got banned eventually still a load of crap though because even though they pm'd me saying they were doing the best they could they were blatantly in favour of the fanbois.
Give me 10 minutes of a gameplay video or the actual game for 10 minutes and I can read the mechanics like a book depending on how complex they are, this game is horribly broken, the only thing I was remotely impressed by was the archery and the magic when it wasn't just grinding so you could actually use it.
The gap between veterans and newbies was too big, so it was instantly flawed and so are thousands of MMO's to date for that reason, the bigger gap you have between players using levels, skills whatever, the harder it is to balance and the less likely it is to last because players will get sick of either always winning or never being able to win just because of their statistics.
Real gamers don't want grinding, they want fun and grinding isn't fun, its just a second job.
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
Let me LOL at the OP
LOL
now let me make a normal lawl to those who responded.
Lets not compare video games to rl senarios plz.
Regardles what game you play you will be pressing buttons. Either it be clicking a mouse key or pressing the f keys. you will use some sort of movement ect. All games are the same. you mash a button and your char does somthing.
What differs Dfo from the majority of the other mmos is that its action oriented and depends more on player skill.
So if your faster strafing and clicking your mouse, use your skills pots than the other person your going to win. the fact remains your still clicking.
The only thing that can make a game work like rl senarios if that they make a full suit that makes your char respond to your movement. Till then all your doing is the same as every other game that has been made. (save those wii games where you swing to do somthing)
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
Mount&Blade is NOT an online game. Many people compare Mount&Blade combat with combat inMMOs when they shouldn't. Why doesn't anybody ask those devs in M&B forums if they could incorporate these moves in an M&B MMO and how easy that would be client server wise?
That seed was planted by the devs themselves unfortunately,and then paraded round by the fanbase.Thats why a lot of us were pretty shocked at how basic darkfalls combat is when we were told by the fans it was going to be complex and revolutionary.A combat system is not based around 2 attack animations with a broken block mechanic and no evasion buttons.
In a real sword fight,if we really must go into realism with this,people dont stand there swinging horizontally at each other.They use all kinds of different variations to break past each others guard-look at fencing for the most 'real' standpoint.
As for M&B,its actually going to be made online in the future,thats what the team are working on right now.
Mount and Blade is a husband and wife team in Turkey (I believe it's Turkey, I may be mistaken). Husband and wife. That's it. One dude doing all the coding, one bird doing all the writing and some art. I'm not sure where you heard that it was being made into an MMO, but there is no "team" working on anything. At best, that dude and his wife are getting hired on by a developer to work on some other title because they've got moxy and vision, just no means with which to achieve anything more than what you see in M&B currently.
And while we're on the topic of small developers: Adventurine, for the vast majority of the game's history (read: seven years), was, like, six dudes in some apartment in Greece, fellas. They built this thing slowly, restarting as often as time and outside technological progress outstripped their ability to code the game, both from an experience and skill perspective, and from a time and availability perspective. They had regular jobs, Darkfall was a labor of love. If you're not a developer it might be difficult to realize fully just how inefficient it is to code the way that they coded ... with long gaps between progress due to "real world" pressures like families, bills, etc ... and then to know, each time that you must take a hiatus to make some money or whatever, that when you come back, your code will be that much further away from the "industry standard."
As to your original claim: I've been following DFO for nearly six or seven years now and I can't recall anything being stated officially regarding combat and the model put forth in Mount and Blade. Since Mount and Blade didn't exist when the original DFO forums went up and the original manifestos were published, I don't really see how they could have referenced it ... what I *do* recall is a lot of wishful thinking on the forums. I also recall a very poorly moderated community that was constantly hypnotising itself into believing its own lies. Random "the devs said in some post that I can't find" threads would be taken as gospel for years until a dev finally decided to say "I don't know what you're talking about. That's now how [featureset] will work." All that they ever actually promised was a game that was all PVP, no PVE, no content, no NPCs, no safe-zones. A total sandbox. Anyone who has read the forums since they were first established will tell you that there is no way that the finished product was going to include intricate combat or amazing graphics -- not because the original vision for the game was super realistic, but because we all knew it was just a handful of dudes in Greece, trying their best to make something awesome. As the developers and artists behind DFO, Adventurine was right to aim high initially. That's how greatness happens, sometimes. But as a fan or consumer, one has to be grounded in reality when one chooses to emotionally invest themself into such an endeavor. You have to love the concept, not necessarily the first draft.
My original point (the one I meant to write when I hit "reply" is this: we should all try to keep things in perspective. That either one of these teams managed to get anything to market at all is fucking incredible and a triumph for independent game developers everywhere. We should be encouraged by their achievements. Once indepdenent developers can get fresh and unedited ideas (read: ideas untouched by corporate methodologies) to the market, we as consumers are in a glorious place. We can have our pick of games, across a broad spectrum ... from polished to downright dirty, and find our own happy place therein. More importantly, the developers with lots of money are exposed to intellectual competition, which in-turn, drives their products to be that much better in the future. Sometimes. That's the best-case scenario anyway ... sometimes EA just gets hungry and eats up an indie just to stave off the selection/market pressures that much longer.
If all you do is sprint around or circle strafe, you will get owned by a player that knows what they are doing.
_______________________________________________
Games looking forward to: Fallen Earth, Mortal Online
The noob formally not known as not being the formally not unkown known APEist; The Stone Cold Killer of Tarq.
Oh no, there is more than just mouse bashing, there is running and jumping, potion spamming and exploiting. It takes skill to master all of these things I agree.
And knockback and weapon reach, and weapon speed differences, and weapon vs armor weaknesses to exploit (crush is strong against plate), and blocking and parrying, and dodging attacks..... but if you want to just hop up and down while I kill you that's fine.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Oh no, there is more than just mouse bashing, there is running and jumping, potion spamming and exploiting. It takes skill to master all of these things I agree.
lol i still don't understand how the devs could be so stupid in making the pot cooldown so low, did they never play an mmo before or something?
The cooldown is like 45 seconds. It's not short, considering the effect.
The system is fine.
_______________________________________________
Games looking forward to: Fallen Earth, Mortal Online
The noob formally not known as not being the formally not unkown known APEist; The Stone Cold Killer of Tarq.
You speak truth here. Thank you for your insight and common sense.
it does. i have a great 1v1 video of DF duels i'll upload to youtube soon. much easier to see the real skill of DF melee when you watch good players duelling.
DF's combat system is HEAVILY skewed towards those with twitch/FPS/aiming skills, those without much twitch skill, son't like it much, and WILL qq about it.
"I'm not sure where you heard that it was being made into an MMO, but there is no "team" working on anything. At best"
read properly, I said that they had taken the concepts of the game
"Adventurine" It's spelled 'Aventurine' after the Aventurine stone I presume.
"More importantly, the developers with lots of money are exposed to intellectual competition, which in-turn, drives their products to be that much better in the future. Sometimes. That's the best-case scenario anyway ... sometimes EA just gets hungry and eats up an indie just to stave off the selection/market pressures that much longer."
There is very little point to most of your post except this, also blaming EA for your problems is pretty ignorant, yes I hate them too, they are utter assholes and in fact when Spore came out I practically spread a crusade against them because of the way they were screwing the game over, but I will NOT go easy on any company any more in the games industry that think they can get away by taking millions of dollars from consumers and investors no less because that is realistically where all this money is coming from and pissing it away on god knows what while leaving the game in the dust when it could be great.
I will not stand for incompetence in games developers anymore especially now that we are in recession, if two or three developers can make a game like World of Goo and price it at a brilliantly reasonable 20 pounds ( in fact it was less than that last time I checked I'm just rounding it up ) then I don't know whats fucking stopping a multi-million dollar company with 30+ employees from doing the same.
While I do not think that Aventurine are scamming anyone yet I will not stand for low quality products and bullshit anymore than I would stand for a publisher to give me low products and bullshit. Not only that Tasos has already made the biggest mistake a developer can make and one such mistake that SOE made when developing a game and that is to blame the playerbase for the problems they are having with the game.
"And knockback and weapon reach, and weapon speed differences, and weapon vs armor weaknesses to exploit (crush is strong against plate), and blocking and parrying, and dodging attacks..... but if you want to just hop up and down while I kill you that's fine."
This is either broken or lazily fixed, stop spreading bullshit or give me proof in a gameplay video, yes you can run around in for different directions but what good is that if you are melee?
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
If all you do is sprint around or circle strafe, you will get owned by a player that knows what they are doing.
So please tell me why 99% of the fights i had in beta consisted of people doing exactly that?
Please explain why when i attempted actual tactics i lost yet when i 'sprinted and circle strafed' i won more often than not?
Please elaborate as to what amazing tactics you would use then and dont say 'id block while you waste your stamina' cause if you stop moving in DF combat you die, the enemy (if he has a brain) just sprint hops round the side of you exploiting the painfully forgiving hitboxes and hits you in the side which counts as the back if you strike at the right time. Also if the enemy has a brain hell have a stack of stamina pots and food and wont run out of stamina, at least not before one of yous dead.
I wish people would stop refuting the claims that DFs combat is bad with this same tired and redundant epeen waving of 'well fight me ill show you how harcore i am!!'
Naked fights or similar gear level fights come down to who can circle strafe best, who has the most pots and who can time his jousting hits the best as you both run about like twats.
Mount&Blade is NOT an online game. Many people compare Mount&Blade combat with combat inMMOs when they shouldn't. Why doesn't anybody ask those devs in M&B forums if they could incorporate these moves in an M&B MMO and how easy that would be client server wise?
That seed was planted by the devs themselves unfortunately,and then paraded round by the fanbase.Thats why a lot of us were pretty shocked at how basic darkfalls combat is when we were told by the fans it was going to be complex and revolutionary.A combat system is not based around 2 attack animations with a broken block mechanic and no evasion buttons.
In a real sword fight,if we really must go into realism with this,people dont stand there swinging horizontally at each other.They use all kinds of different variations to break past each others guard-look at fencing for the most 'real' standpoint.
As for M&B,its actually going to be made online in the future,thats what the team are working on right now.
Mount and Blade is a husband and wife team in Turkey (I believe it's Turkey, I may be mistaken). Husband and wife. That's it. One dude doing all the coding, one bird doing all the writing and some art. I'm not sure where you heard that it was being made into an MMO, but there is no "team" working on anything. At best, that dude and his wife are getting hired on by a developer to work on some other title because they've got moxy and vision, just no means with which to achieve anything more than what you see in M&B currently.
And while we're on the topic of small developers: Adventurine, for the vast majority of the game's history (read: seven years), was, like, six dudes in some apartment in Greece, fellas. They built this thing slowly, restarting as often as time and outside technological progress outstripped their ability to code the game, both from an experience and skill perspective, and from a time and availability perspective. They had regular jobs, Darkfall was a labor of love. If you're not a developer it might be difficult to realize fully just how inefficient it is to code the way that they coded ... with long gaps between progress due to "real world" pressures like families, bills, etc ... and then to know, each time that you must take a hiatus to make some money or whatever, that when you come back, your code will be that much further away from the "industry standard."
As to your original claim: I've been following DFO for nearly six or seven years now and I can't recall anything being stated officially regarding combat and the model put forth in Mount and Blade. Since Mount and Blade didn't exist when the original DFO forums went up and the original manifestos were published, I don't really see how they could have referenced it ... what I *do* recall is a lot of wishful thinking on the forums. I also recall a very poorly moderated community that was constantly hypnotising itself into believing its own lies. Random "the devs said in some post that I can't find" threads would be taken as gospel for years until a dev finally decided to say "I don't know what you're talking about. That's now how [featureset] will work." All that they ever actually promised was a game that was all PVP, no PVE, no content, no NPCs, no safe-zones. A total sandbox. Anyone who has read the forums since they were first established will tell you that there is no way that the finished product was going to include intricate combat or amazing graphics -- not because the original vision for the game was super realistic, but because we all knew it was just a handful of dudes in Greece, trying their best to make something awesome. As the developers and artists behind DFO, Adventurine was right to aim high initially. That's how greatness happens, sometimes. But as a fan or consumer, one has to be grounded in reality when one chooses to emotionally invest themself into such an endeavor. You have to love the concept, not necessarily the first draft.
My original point (the one I meant to write when I hit "reply" is this: we should all try to keep things in perspective. That either one of these teams managed to get anything to market at all is fucking incredible and a triumph for independent game developers everywhere. We should be encouraged by their achievements. Once indepdenent developers can get fresh and unedited ideas (read: ideas untouched by corporate methodologies) to the market, we as consumers are in a glorious place. We can have our pick of games, across a broad spectrum ... from polished to downright dirty, and find our own happy place therein. More importantly, the developers with lots of money are exposed to intellectual competition, which in-turn, drives their products to be that much better in the future. Sometimes. That's the best-case scenario anyway ... sometimes EA just gets hungry and eats up an indie just to stave off the selection/market pressures that much longer.
Very good, well thought out write up. I agree with most of these things.
One thing I would like to clarify is that mount and blade is actually going to go multiplayer. It will not be massivley multiplayer or co-op campaign.
"[Armagan Yavuz] It will be similar to FPS multiplayer games. The network architecture will be based on the client-server model, and players will be able to run their own servers. We may also run some official servers, though we don’t have any solid plans for that yet."
More like they plop you down onto a battlefield with other players and you duke it out until you die. I'm still looking forward to this as I enjoy the Mount and Blade combat more than DFO beta's combat, but DFO has the advantage of being an MMO.
Darkfall Fanboy since August 2007.
If all you do is sprint around or circle strafe, you will get owned by a player that knows what they are doing.
So please tell me why 99% of the fights i had in beta consisted of people doing exactly that?
Please explain why when i attempted actual tactics i lost yet when i 'sprinted and circle strafed' i won more often than not?
Please elaborate as to what amazing tactics you would use then and dont say 'id block while you waste your stamina' cause if you stop moving in DF combat you die, the enemy (if he has a brain) just sprint hops round the side of you exploiting the painfully forgiving hitboxes and hits you in the side which counts as the back if you strike at the right time. Also if the enemy has a brain hell have a stack of stamina pots and food and wont run out of stamina, at least not before one of yous dead.
I wish people would stop refuting the claims that DFs combat is bad with this same tired and redundant epeen waving of 'well fight me ill show you how harcore i am!!'
Naked fights or similar gear level fights come down to who can circle strafe best, who has the most pots and who can time his jousting hits the best as you both run about like twats.
LMAO
Twats generally don't run around, but I agree with the general gist of what you are saying.
I take it back. I actually do wish there was a way to punch people through the screen now.
Played:
EQ1, AO, WoW, AoC
Best thread ever:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2680105/thread/225957#2680105
Mount&Blade is NOT an online game. Many people compare Mount&Blade combat with combat inMMOs when they shouldn't. Why doesn't anybody ask those devs in M&B forums if they could incorporate these moves in an M&B MMO and how easy that would be client server wise?
That seed was planted by the devs themselves unfortunately,and then paraded round by the fanbase.Thats why a lot of us were pretty shocked at how basic darkfalls combat is when we were told by the fans it was going to be complex and revolutionary.A combat system is not based around 2 attack animations with a broken block mechanic and no evasion buttons.
In a real sword fight,if we really must go into realism with this,people dont stand there swinging horizontally at each other.They use all kinds of different variations to break past each others guard-look at fencing for the most 'real' standpoint.
As for M&B,its actually going to be made online in the future,thats what the team are working on right now.
Mount and Blade is a husband and wife team in Turkey (I believe it's Turkey, I may be mistaken). Husband and wife. That's it. One dude doing all the coding, one bird doing all the writing and some art. I'm not sure where you heard that it was being made into an MMO, but there is no "team" working on anything. At best, that dude and his wife are getting hired on by a developer to work on some other title because they've got moxy and vision, just no means with which to achieve anything more than what you see in M&B currently.
And while we're on the topic of small developers: Adventurine, for the vast majority of the game's history (read: seven years), was, like, six dudes in some apartment in Greece, fellas. They built this thing slowly, restarting as often as time and outside technological progress outstripped their ability to code the game, both from an experience and skill perspective, and from a time and availability perspective. They had regular jobs, Darkfall was a labor of love. If you're not a developer it might be difficult to realize fully just how inefficient it is to code the way that they coded ... with long gaps between progress due to "real world" pressures like families, bills, etc ... and then to know, each time that you must take a hiatus to make some money or whatever, that when you come back, your code will be that much further away from the "industry standard."
As to your original claim: I've been following DFO for nearly six or seven years now and I can't recall anything being stated officially regarding combat and the model put forth in Mount and Blade. Since Mount and Blade didn't exist when the original DFO forums went up and the original manifestos were published, I don't really see how they could have referenced it ... what I *do* recall is a lot of wishful thinking on the forums. I also recall a very poorly moderated community that was constantly hypnotising itself into believing its own lies. Random "the devs said in some post that I can't find" threads would be taken as gospel for years until a dev finally decided to say "I don't know what you're talking about. That's now how [featureset] will work." All that they ever actually promised was a game that was all PVP, no PVE, no content, no NPCs, no safe-zones. A total sandbox. Anyone who has read the forums since they were first established will tell you that there is no way that the finished product was going to include intricate combat or amazing graphics -- not because the original vision for the game was super realistic, but because we all knew it was just a handful of dudes in Greece, trying their best to make something awesome. As the developers and artists behind DFO, Adventurine was right to aim high initially. That's how greatness happens, sometimes. But as a fan or consumer, one has to be grounded in reality when one chooses to emotionally invest themself into such an endeavor. You have to love the concept, not necessarily the first draft.
My original point (the one I meant to write when I hit "reply" is this: we should all try to keep things in perspective. That either one of these teams managed to get anything to market at all is fucking incredible and a triumph for independent game developers everywhere. We should be encouraged by their achievements. Once indepdenent developers can get fresh and unedited ideas (read: ideas untouched by corporate methodologies) to the market, we as consumers are in a glorious place. We can have our pick of games, across a broad spectrum ... from polished to downright dirty, and find our own happy place therein. More importantly, the developers with lots of money are exposed to intellectual competition, which in-turn, drives their products to be that much better in the future. Sometimes. That's the best-case scenario anyway ... sometimes EA just gets hungry and eats up an indie just to stave off the selection/market pressures that much longer.
Very good, well thought out write up. I agree with most of these things.
One thing I would like to clarify is that mount and blade is actually going to go multiplayer. It will not be massivley multiplayer or co-op campaign.
"[Armagan Yavuz] It will be similar to FPS multiplayer games. The network architecture will be based on the client-server model, and players will be able to run their own servers. We may also run some official servers, though we don’t have any solid plans for that yet."
More like they plop you down onto a battlefield with other players and you duke it out until you die. I'm still looking forward to this as I enjoy the Mount and Blade combat more than DFO beta's combat, but DFO has the advantage of being an MMO.
I hadn't read/heard that, but that's very cool. I, too, look forward to that sort of mechanic for M&B. It's a really terrific engine. There's a similar game built on the Steam engine ... the name is escaping me, but it's essentially Battlefiled Oblivion. The combat mechanics are nowhere near as detailed and specialized as M&B however.
And to whoever replied to my previous post with remarks about Tasos being a tool: I couldn't agree more. That man has done more harm to Aventurine's (thank you for correcting my spelling) cause than anyone short of the rather mercurial forum mods (Brannoc, I'm looking at you ... but I know you're not a bad dude at-heart, just a guy with an impossible job). His constant and transparent stream of bullshit and spin has sickened me for years -- most companies replace their public relations agent every so often because after a while, they run out of credibility as spin evaporates into dust again and again; leaving Tasos in the hot seat after he has repeatedly failed to exhibit any competency in damage control or community outreach is their biggest mistake to-date.
Mount and Blade Multiplayer is going to be so awesome.
<@Teth>; I will take your word on it, seeing as I really enjoyed Mount & Blade melee in TPV
<Claus|Dev> yea teth, M&B works very well
<Claus|Dev> we are very close to that
and
<TBC-Captain> so Claus...we have to ask...on a scale from 1 - 10, how close is DF combat to Mount and Blade...and frankly...are there mounts like in M&B?
<+Claus|Dev> m&b similarity is.. 7?
<+Claus|Dev> how do I answer that?
<+Claus|Dev> 7.23
from
http://darkfallinfo.com/index.php?page=Info&code=lxcjjn77ep&highlight=mount%20and%20blade
As it stands, it's great that manual aiming is in, but combat is alot more like wack-a-mole that wacks you back then M&B.
Maybe someone should have asked 'how close is DF combat to Wack-a-mole?'
Mount&Blade is NOT an online game. Many people compare Mount&Blade combat with combat inMMOs when they shouldn't. Why doesn't anybody ask those devs in M&B forums if they could incorporate these moves in an M&B MMO and how easy that would be client server wise?
That seed was planted by the devs themselves unfortunately,and then paraded round by the fanbase.Thats why a lot of us were pretty shocked at how basic darkfalls combat is when we were told by the fans it was going to be complex and revolutionary.A combat system is not based around 2 attack animations with a broken block mechanic and no evasion buttons.
In a real sword fight,if we really must go into realism with this,people dont stand there swinging horizontally at each other.They use all kinds of different variations to break past each others guard-look at fencing for the most 'real' standpoint.
As for M&B,its actually going to be made online in the future,thats what the team are working on right now.
Mount and Blade is a husband and wife team in Turkey (I believe it's Turkey, I may be mistaken). Husband and wife. That's it. One dude doing all the coding, one bird doing all the writing and some art. I'm not sure where you heard that it was being made into an MMO, but there is no "team" working on anything. At best, that dude and his wife are getting hired on by a developer to work on some other title because they've got moxy and vision, just no means with which to achieve anything more than what you see in M&B currently.
And while we're on the topic of small developers: Adventurine, for the vast majority of the game's history (read: seven years), was, like, six dudes in some apartment in Greece, fellas. They built this thing slowly, restarting as often as time and outside technological progress outstripped their ability to code the game, both from an experience and skill perspective, and from a time and availability perspective. They had regular jobs, Darkfall was a labor of love. If you're not a developer it might be difficult to realize fully just how inefficient it is to code the way that they coded ... with long gaps between progress due to "real world" pressures like families, bills, etc ... and then to know, each time that you must take a hiatus to make some money or whatever, that when you come back, your code will be that much further away from the "industry standard."
As to your original claim: I've been following DFO for nearly six or seven years now and I can't recall anything being stated officially regarding combat and the model put forth in Mount and Blade. Since Mount and Blade didn't exist when the original DFO forums went up and the original manifestos were published, I don't really see how they could have referenced it ... what I *do* recall is a lot of wishful thinking on the forums. I also recall a very poorly moderated community that was constantly hypnotising itself into believing its own lies. Random "the devs said in some post that I can't find" threads would be taken as gospel for years until a dev finally decided to say "I don't know what you're talking about. That's now how [featureset] will work." All that they ever actually promised was a game that was all PVP, no PVE, no content, no NPCs, no safe-zones. A total sandbox. Anyone who has read the forums since they were first established will tell you that there is no way that the finished product was going to include intricate combat or amazing graphics -- not because the original vision for the game was super realistic, but because we all knew it was just a handful of dudes in Greece, trying their best to make something awesome. As the developers and artists behind DFO, Adventurine was right to aim high initially. That's how greatness happens, sometimes. But as a fan or consumer, one has to be grounded in reality when one chooses to emotionally invest themself into such an endeavor. You have to love the concept, not necessarily the first draft.
My original point (the one I meant to write when I hit "reply" is this: we should all try to keep things in perspective. That either one of these teams managed to get anything to market at all is fucking incredible and a triumph for independent game developers everywhere. We should be encouraged by their achievements. Once indepdenent developers can get fresh and unedited ideas (read: ideas untouched by corporate methodologies) to the market, we as consumers are in a glorious place. We can have our pick of games, across a broad spectrum ... from polished to downright dirty, and find our own happy place therein. More importantly, the developers with lots of money are exposed to intellectual competition, which in-turn, drives their products to be that much better in the future. Sometimes. That's the best-case scenario anyway ... sometimes EA just gets hungry and eats up an indie just to stave off the selection/market pressures that much longer.
http://www.gamersdailynews.com/article-1776-Exclusive-Mount--Blade-Multiplayer-Interview-with-Armagan-Yavuz.html
I never stated it was "being made into an mmo",I said it was going to be online.And come on,you cant blame the fans for making things up.Tasos has been coming out with allsorts over the last few years.remember the one about mobs that smell you in the air,and can track you from miles away?
Oh no, there is more than just mouse bashing, there is running and jumping, potion spamming and exploiting. It takes skill to master all of these things I agree.
You can't spam potions and food anymore.
I haven't ever seen any exploits when it comes to pvp except fixed (hopefully for good ) sync issues.
Try to run too much and jump to much and you will run out of stamina before your enemy and then you are as good as dead.
Block is fast and responsive ( AT LAST GOD DAMN IT ).
You have to learn how to time your blows and not miss, each blow eats your stamina.
Learn to block incoming blows, for example instead 20 dmg you will get 3, you can block arrows as well to get closer to attacking you archer. You can't block all the time because it will suck your stamina dry.
Different weapons eat different amount of stamina, do different damage and have different reach.
You should always seek oportunity to circle around your enemy and attack him from a side or preferably from a back.
You have to learn how to use height and size difference when you fight your enemy - you can actually duck and avoid that way some horizontal blows if you are short enough or you are on lower ground.
You should ambush your enemy and attack from a back with ranged weapon or magic to get advantage.
You should use terrain to avoid hits and as an escape opportunity.
Use any opportunity to hit multiple opponents with your magic, melee attacks and avoid hitting friends.
Learn how to act as a group in pve and pvp encounters.
Combat is enjoyable and much more exciting then any MMO I played, that's probably because of FPS elements.
And BTW try to kill in WoW or WAR anybody on end game or middle level with your 10 lvl character or even with two friends. Good luck.
<@Teth>; I will take your word on it, seeing as I really enjoyed Mount & Blade melee in TPV
<Claus|Dev> yea teth, M&B works very well
<Claus|Dev> we are very close to that
and
<TBC-Captain> so Claus...we have to ask...on a scale from 1 - 10, how close is DF combat to Mount and Blade...and frankly...are there mounts like in M&B?
<+Claus|Dev> m&b similarity is.. 7?
<+Claus|Dev> how do I answer that?
<+Claus|Dev> 7.23
from
http://darkfallinfo.com/index.php?page=Info&code=lxcjjn77ep&highlight=mount%20and%20blade
As it stands, it's great that manual aiming is in, but combat is alot more like wack-a-mole that wacks you back then M&B.
Maybe someone should have asked 'how close is DF combat to Wack-a-mole?'
TBC-Captain ... too funny. That's my boy; I was the Lt of TBC for a long time. The Black Company has long awaited the release of Darkfall, to be sure.
But, still, those are pretty nebulous questions and the answers are vague, at best. What aspect of M&B combat were they talking about? The pixel-collision system? The moving your mouse to the right to strike on the right side of your opponent? The weapons being expendable and mundane? The combat happening from horseback, including archery?
I'm sure that there are similarities ... 7.23? I mean, he obviously was joking with his answer because the question itself (no offence, Capt), was pretty poorly constructed. "On a scale of 1-10, how similar is this hotdog to a muffin?" I mean, they're both food ... you eat them the same way, more or less ... how do you quantify or qualify an answer to that question using only the numbers 1 through 10?
Anyway, you've made your point all the same ... if they didn't want people to think that they had directional controls on a per-swing basis, I suppose Claus should have been more specific in his answers. Which only goes back to a sentiment I've maintained for years: the developers aren't supposed to be good at PR, they're supposed to be locked in a dungeon, coding. But this is a trend we will see more and more of as indie devs get their act together (in other words, it may get worse before it gets better): they know how to program, but they work on such shoestring budgets that they can't afford to staff the "soft" positions in a company, like a Publicist or a PR manager or a CR Manager, etc. So you get devs who know what they *want* to program speaking with an audience without an edit button or a handler.
This is one way in which Funcom and CCP have always impressed me. Gaute Gotinger (sp?) made some early mistakes with AO, but he learned from those errors and went on to become a very good game director, who could double effectively as a PR agent and spokesman for his titles.
Oh no, there is more than just mouse bashing, there is running and jumping, potion spamming and exploiting. It takes skill to master all of these things I agree.
You can't spam potions and food anymore.
I haven't ever seen any exploits when it comes to pvp except fixed (hopefully for good ) sync issues.
Try to run too much and jump to much and you will run out of stamina before your enemy and then you are as good as dead.
Block is fast and responsive ( AT LAST GOD DAMN IT ).
You have to learn how to time your blows and not miss, each blow eats your stamina.
Learn to block incoming blows, for example instead 20 dmg you will get 3, you can block arrows as well to get closer to attacking you archer. You can't block all the time because it will suck your stamina dry.
Different weapons eat different amount of stamina, do different damage and have different reach.
You should always seek oportunity to circle around your enemy and attack him from a side or preferably from a back.
You have to learn how to use height and size difference when you fight your enemy - you can actually duck and avoid that way some horizontal blows if you are short enough or you are on lower ground.
You should ambush your enemy and attack from a back with ranged weapon or magic to get advantage.
You should use terrain to avoid hits and as an escape opportunity.
Use any opportunity to hit multiple opponents with your magic, melee attacks and avoid hitting friends.
Learn how to act as a group in pve and pvp encounters.
Combat is enjoyable and much more exciting then any MMO I played, that's probably because of FPS elements.
And BTW try to kill in WoW or WAR anybody on end game or middle level with your 10 lvl character or even with two friends. Good luck.
Hmmm.. sounds like they are improving things a lot since what I heard about beta. Thanks, and thanks for providing this info without being a dick. This is the kind of response that helps a game out rather than making the people playing it sound like elitist knobgobblers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vU_GZI0Ses&feature=related
I think this is one of the most creative attack systems. Similar to Darkfall in that it requires movement and targeting and doesn't just lock on and use some crazy formula to decide if you hit or not.
http://baneoflife.com
The question was
<@Teth>; I will take your word on it, seeing as I really enjoyed Mount & Blade melee in TPV
the answer
<Claus|Dev> yea teth, M&B works very well
<Claus|Dev> we are very close to that
Then
so Claus...we have to ask...on a scale from 1 - 10, how close is DF combat to Mount and Blade...and frankly...are there mounts like in M&B?
answer
<+Claus|Dev> m&b similarity is.. 7?
<+Claus|Dev> how do I answer that?
<+Claus|Dev> 7.23
He rated its similarity at a seven.He didnt say "oh no,it wont be similar to that at all" or anything like that.He said they were "very close". Im sure if you dug around you'd find much more on the subject about how similar it was going to be abnd how good the combat was going to be in general,but as WSImike said,its just like doing a 180.
It IS very close to M&B. You aim your sword, you aim your bow, the arrows are effected by flight patterns, sword works in the same way.
What IS missing, is momentum based damage, and being able to hold your attack before swinging (and the way directional swings work, but I think directional swings (theres only 3 directions in Darkfall) and momentum based damage would be extremely hard to pull off in a MASSIVE MMO. Limitations of tech.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Play the game first please.
Wolfenpride: <--Giant fucking sword syndrome.
Probably cause im trying to compensate for miniscule manhood.
From the sound of things, combat has improved a lot since beta, but even in beta I found that winning combat took a lot more than just spamming your mouse button.
This is the first MMO where I've had to use advantages in flanking, cover, and positioning to win. Granted, they were useful in other MMO's, but not nearly so much so as I've found them to be in the beta for this game.
I remember dancing around trees, rocks, and other players to frustrate my attackers. I remember hiding behind a shield to recover a bit of health while my enemies spent their stamina uselessly. I remember one on one battles that would see both myself and my opponent backing up and trying to circle around one another while our stamina regenerated. I remember dashing from rock to tree, using the land as cover as I advanced on a caster's position.
I found these things worked amazingly well against the people who just spammed sprint & click.