I assume you are still in Tortage OP? Enjoy while it lasts. Once you get to endgame you will probably get bored like
{ Mod Delete }
It's not just MY opinion. Remember those 90% of players who quit? They ALSO had the same opinion.
Don't you get it? You fans of AoC.. YOU guys are the minority. YOU guys are the 10% of gamers who like AoC. Those other 90% didn't like it and have moved on to other games.
Just face it. Endgame in AoC is boring as hell. Admit it. Why do you think everyone rerolls or quits as soon as they hit 80?
Again, STOP pulling this "90%" figure out of your ass unless you have actual proof. No, not X-fire stats nor the "European financial genious" guy the haters quote all the time. No... actual proof, not guesstimations and self-serving "statistics".
There's a reason why scientific statistics are considered proof.... because they are controlled from all extraneous things that taint the data that the scientist is collecting to prove/disprove his/her hypothesis. The X-fire stats are not controlled in anyway shape or form. Not everyone uses X-fire... no one knows the exact % of AoC players (past and present) that uses X-fire, therefore, no one knows if the decline that the haters report is just representative of the overall AoC population, or just those that are using X-fire. Therefore, it's tainted and a very poor guesstimate at that. Thus, not actual proof.
Also, this "European financial genious" that the haters quote for finding out the "truth" of AoC's population is not proof as well. All he did was reverse engineer his math from the financial statements to try and find an actual "true" statistic on AoC's population. One major problem with that: Self -serving bias. We don't know the true motives of said "financial" person. And, since there was no control (ie neutral party observation and review) we have no way of knowing if his bias influenced his mathmatical equations. Therefore, those stats can be tainted as well. Thus, not showing reality through the statistics. Therefore, this is not proof as well.
Again, stop using the "90%" figure until you provide real proof on its validity.
I have asked you twice to do the math with the acepted numbers but you just choose to keep flaming people. The number is easily in the 80-90% range given the numbers out there. Once more....units sold-accounts active.
Here Ill do it for you. Lets use a conservative number of say 1,000,000 sold. ( surely they have hit this number since the bragged about 800k months ago) and an optimistic number of 200k current players. Whats that percentage?
Actually i think that the people, who think the game is bordring after Tortage, is same people who like singelplayer, more than multiplayer games and disliked pvp. Why do i make this statement? well at the beginning 80% (aka Tortage) of the game is singelplayer related. AFter that it is more like 75 Multiplayer 25%
singelplayer. Especially at pvp servers.. i can tell you. IT IS DAMN HARD to do quests solo on pvp servers, because EVERYONE that crosses your patch wanna kill you, (and i do mean everyone. Shit i have ben jumped by level 20s at level 70 (i won ofcause)) so if you are in a group, you would be more protected (not not safe at all. You are only safe if you are in the major citys, unless you are a murdere, then you are just fucked).
I LOVE THIS.. I can tell you, i NEVER get boared when playing on fury (pvp sever), why? because i really dont have time to get boared, because i get paranoid like all hell because it is really a dog eat dog world out there!! I love this whole thing.. and dont get my wrong, i am not a good pvp player.. i would say i am lightly below average, but i stil LOVE it. Apart from the whole pvp/paranoid/Anarhcy, the quets have improved.. I dare you to free the frost father, and not be a little chocked on how big he really is.. He reminds me of the really big bosses from Painkiller. The dungons have also been improved and multiplied as other people have told. Though i would say the singelplayer quests are NOT the most exciting i have played (Ac2 still have that place in my heart, i just LOVED the story line.. Maby it is because that was my first mmo, i dont know, i just loved it), and if there wasent any pvp in AoC i proberly wouldent be playing it. ps. All this is MY opinion, and others can have a compleatly other opinion on the subject.
I guess we all have different theories about the whys but I find most people I talked to felt the opposite. The felt it was too much like asingle player game. I think I was in my 30's before I even had to group with my guild to do anything.
Again opinions differ but I have NEVER heard that people didnt like the game because they like single player games.
Actually i think that the people, who think the game is bordring after Tortage, is same people who like singelplayer, more than multiplayer games and disliked pvp. Why do i make this statement? well at the beginning 80% (aka Tortage) of the game is singelplayer related. AFter that it is more like 75 Multiplayer 25%
singelplayer. Especially at pvp servers.. i can tell you. IT IS DAMN HARD to do quests solo on pvp servers, because EVERYONE that crosses your patch wanna kill you, (and i do mean everyone. Shit i have ben jumped by level 20s at level 70 (i won ofcause)) so if you are in a group, you would be more protected (not not safe at all. You are only safe if you are in the major citys, unless you are a murdere, then you are just fucked).
I LOVE THIS.. I can tell you, i NEVER get boared when playing on fury (pvp sever), why? because i really dont have time to get boared, because i get paranoid like all hell because it is really a dog eat dog world out there!! I love this whole thing.. and dont get my wrong, i am not a good pvp player.. i would say i am lightly below average, but i stil LOVE it. Apart from the whole pvp/paranoid/Anarhcy, the quets have improved.. I dare you to free the frost father, and not be a little chocked on how big he really is.. He reminds me of the really big bosses from Painkiller. The dungons have also been improved and multiplied as other people have told. Though i would say the singelplayer quests are NOT the most exciting i have played (Ac2 still have that place in my heart, i just LOVED the story line.. Maby it is because that was my first mmo, i dont know, i just loved it), and if there wasent any pvp in AoC i proberly wouldent be playing it. ps. All this is MY opinion, and others can have a compleatly other opinion on the subject.
I guess we all have different theories about the whys but I find most people I talked to felt the opposite. The felt it was too much like asingle player game. I think I was in my 30's before I even had to group with my guild to do anything.
Again opinions differ but I have NEVER heard that people didnt like the game because they like single player games.
Agreed. I actually like both style of games, so I am a misnomer.
The problem is that people thought Tortage was this whole single player affair, yet I took my wife with me through Tortage, and we decided to "skip" the Destiny quest and did all the sub quests. We made it to level 17, and was able to use the smuggler to leave. It was awesome fun.
And that is the point, people can have fun in various ways. I still hear people complain about Guild Wars, yet I think it has been the best MMO type expereince yet, as it does not play like all the other MMO's with their carrot/stick syndromes. Same for AoC...as I have several ways to play and enjoy it. I CAN group or solo...I have a choice.
Tortage? That place is such a mind boring beginner zone. I cant even bother to create an alt just becuse I remember my first dreaded hours with my dark templar. The game will become more fun as you progress after the first 20 levels. Just find a guild that you can have fun with and enjot the leveling ride.
Haha thats funny because I thought the exact same thing, all along hearing "OMG tortage is awesome but once you leave it the game is boring and empty". That was enough for me to quit as I already thought Tortage sucked and if that was the best the game had to offer I didn't need to see any more.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I assume you are still in Tortage OP? Enjoy while it lasts. Once you get to endgame you will probably get bored like
{ Mod Delete }
It's not just MY opinion. Remember those 90% of players who quit? They ALSO had the same opinion.
Don't you get it? You fans of AoC.. YOU guys are the minority. YOU guys are the 10% of gamers who like AoC. Those other 90% didn't like it and have moved on to other games.
Just face it. Endgame in AoC is boring as hell. Admit it. Why do you think everyone rerolls or quits as soon as they hit 80?
Again, STOP pulling this "90%" figure out of your ass unless you have actual proof. No, not X-fire stats nor the "European financial genious" guy the haters quote all the time. No... actual proof, not guesstimations and self-serving "statistics".
There's a reason why scientific statistics are considered proof.... because they are controlled from all extraneous things that taint the data that the scientist is collecting to prove/disprove his/her hypothesis. The X-fire stats are not controlled in anyway shape or form. Not everyone uses X-fire... no one knows the exact % of AoC players (past and present) that uses X-fire, therefore, no one knows if the decline that the haters report is just representative of the overall AoC population, or just those that are using X-fire. Therefore, it's tainted and a very poor guesstimate at that. Thus, not actual proof.
Also, this "European financial genious" that the haters quote for finding out the "truth" of AoC's population is not proof as well. All he did was reverse engineer his math from the financial statements to try and find an actual "true" statistic on AoC's population. One major problem with that: Self -serving bias. We don't know the true motives of said "financial" person. And, since there was no control (ie neutral party observation and review) we have no way of knowing if his bias influenced his mathmatical equations. Therefore, those stats can be tainted as well. Thus, not showing reality through the statistics. Therefore, this is not proof as well.
Again, stop using the "90%" figure until you provide real proof on its validity.
I have asked you twice to do the math with the acepted numbers but you just choose to keep flaming people. The number is easily in the 80-90% range given the numbers out there. Once more....units sold-accounts active.
Here Ill do it for you. Lets use a conservative number of say 1,000,000 sold. ( surely they have hit this number since the bragged about 800k months ago) and an optimistic number of 200k current players. Whats that percentage?
I'm not the one who is spouting the "90%" (now "80% - 90%" figure... guess you all do not know either) figure. Thus, I have no requirement to prove anything. The burden of proof is on you since you are the one spouting these figures.
Once more... do you have actual, solid, unquestionable PROOF on these figures you are spouting? Not assumptions, but actual proof. I already know about the 800k report from last year. But, that was last year, not current. Therefore, you do not know how the actual number of how many have purchased boxes since then. Can you prove that, CURRENTLY, 200k are still subscribed? What if there is more or less?
My point is that you are using assumptions in place of statistics. Solid statistics should be have very little to no influence of biases of the researcher in them. They should be accurate to reflect reality. Your assumptions are not statistics. Therefore they are just random guesstimates... not proof. It also doesn't help that you all are changing said figure to meet your arguments rather than sticking your guns with one. Shows me that you don't know the validity of these "figures" either. In my opinion, until there's solid proof of these or any other future figures, for both sides, those figures are just self-serving biased crap.
I assume you are still in Tortage OP? Enjoy while it lasts. Once you get to endgame you will probably get bored like
{ Mod Delete }
It's not just MY opinion. Remember those 90% of players who quit? They ALSO had the same opinion.
Don't you get it? You fans of AoC.. YOU guys are the minority. YOU guys are the 10% of gamers who like AoC. Those other 90% didn't like it and have moved on to other games.
Just face it. Endgame in AoC is boring as hell. Admit it. Why do you think everyone rerolls or quits as soon as they hit 80?
Again, STOP pulling this "90%" figure out of your ass unless you have actual proof. No, not X-fire stats nor the "European financial genious" guy the haters quote all the time. No... actual proof, not guesstimations and self-serving "statistics".
There's a reason why scientific statistics are considered proof.... because they are controlled from all extraneous things that taint the data that the scientist is collecting to prove/disprove his/her hypothesis. The X-fire stats are not controlled in anyway shape or form. Not everyone uses X-fire... no one knows the exact % of AoC players (past and present) that uses X-fire, therefore, no one knows if the decline that the haters report is just representative of the overall AoC population, or just those that are using X-fire. Therefore, it's tainted and a very poor guesstimate at that. Thus, not actual proof.
Also, this "European financial genious" that the haters quote for finding out the "truth" of AoC's population is not proof as well. All he did was reverse engineer his math from the financial statements to try and find an actual "true" statistic on AoC's population. One major problem with that: Self -serving bias. We don't know the true motives of said "financial" person. And, since there was no control (ie neutral party observation and review) we have no way of knowing if his bias influenced his mathmatical equations. Therefore, those stats can be tainted as well. Thus, not showing reality through the statistics. Therefore, this is not proof as well.
Again, stop using the "90%" figure until you provide real proof on its validity.
I have asked you twice to do the math with the acepted numbers but you just choose to keep flaming people. The number is easily in the 80-90% range given the numbers out there. Once more....units sold-accounts active.
Here Ill do it for you. Lets use a conservative number of say 1,000,000 sold. ( surely they have hit this number since the bragged about 800k months ago) and an optimistic number of 200k current players. Whats that percentage?
I'm not the one who is spouting the "90%" (now "80% - 90%" figure... guess you all do not know either) figure. Thus, I have no requirement to prove anything. The burden of proof is on you since you are the one spouting these figures.
Once more... do you have actual, solid, unquestionable PROOF on these figures you are spouting? Not assumptions, but actual proof. I already know about the 800k report from last year. But, that was last year, not current. Therefore, you do not know how the actual number of how many have purchased boxes since then. Can you prove that, CURRENTLY, 200k are still subscribed? What if there is more or less?
My point is that you are using assumptions in place of statistics. Solid statistics should be have very little to no influence of biases of the researcher in them. They should be accurate to reflect reality. Your assumptions are not statistics. Therefore they are just random guesstimates... not proof. It also doesn't help that you all are changing said figure to meet your arguments rather than sticking your guns with one. Shows me that you don't know the validity of these "figures" either. In my opinion, until there's solid proof of these or any other future figures, for both sides, those figures are just self-serving biased crap.
No you are spouting off that the number isnt accurate and yet while theres room for interpretation it is still within an accepted range. Your flaming is out of line because again even using numbers that fanboys will back it is still at 80%.
80% doesn't even support this quarters reported revenue, plus 180,000 players is way more then there are - it's not believable and does not come close to supporting next quarter's figures.
The range is half of that unless the fans are calling Funcom out on lying on financial reports! Anyone who played this game since release should know better, spend more time in game and less on the forums, that way you could have watched your guilds and friend lists fall well over 80%!
Actually i think that the people, who think the game is bordring after Tortage, is same people who like singelplayer, more than multiplayer games and disliked pvp. Why do i make this statement? well at the beginning 80% (aka Tortage) of the game is singelplayer related. AFter that it is more like 75 Multiplayer 25%
singelplayer. Especially at pvp servers.. i can tell you. IT IS DAMN HARD to do quests solo on pvp servers, because EVERYONE that crosses your patch wanna kill you, (and i do mean everyone. Shit i have ben jumped by level 20s at level 70 (i won ofcause)) so if you are in a group, you would be more protected (not not safe at all. You are only safe if you are in the major citys, unless you are a murdere, then you are just fucked).
I LOVE THIS.. I can tell you, i NEVER get boared when playing on fury (pvp sever), why? because i really dont have time to get boared, because i get paranoid like all hell because it is really a dog eat dog world out there!! I love this whole thing.. and dont get my wrong, i am not a good pvp player.. i would say i am lightly below average, but i stil LOVE it. Apart from the whole pvp/paranoid/Anarhcy, the quets have improved.. I dare you to free the frost father, and not be a little chocked on how big he really is.. He reminds me of the really big bosses from Painkiller. The dungons have also been improved and multiplied as other people have told. Though i would say the singelplayer quests are NOT the most exciting i have played (Ac2 still have that place in my heart, i just LOVED the story line.. Maby it is because that was my first mmo, i dont know, i just loved it), and if there wasent any pvp in AoC i proberly wouldent be playing it. ps. All this is MY opinion, and others can have a compleatly other opinion on the subject.
I guess we all have different theories about the whys but I find most people I talked to felt the opposite. The felt it was too much like asingle player game. I think I was in my 30's before I even had to group with my guild to do anything.
Again opinions differ but I have NEVER heard that people didnt like the game because they like single player games.
Agreed. I actually like both style of games, so I am a misnomer.
The problem is that people thought Tortage was this whole single player affair, yet I took my wife with me through Tortage, and we decided to "skip" the Destiny quest and did all the sub quests. We made it to level 17, and was able to use the smuggler to leave. It was awesome fun.
And that is the point, people can have fun in various ways. I still hear people complain about Guild Wars, yet I think it has been the best MMO type expereince yet, as it does not play like all the other MMO's with their carrot/stick syndromes. Same for AoC...as I have several ways to play and enjoy it. I CAN group or solo...I have a choice.
That is what I like.
Yes I am tweener also. I bounce between solo and group depending on my mood.
I have asked you twice to do the math with the acepted numbers but you just choose to keep flaming people. The number is easily in the 80-90% range given the numbers out there. Once more....units sold-accounts active. Here Ill do it for you. Lets use a conservative number of say 1,000,000 sold. ( surely they have hit this number since the bragged about 800k months ago) and an optimistic number of 200k current players. Whats that percentage?
I'm not the one who is spouting the "90%" (now "80% - 90%" figure... guess you all do not know either) figure. Thus, I have no requirement to prove anything. The burden of proof is on you since you are the one spouting these figures.
Once more... do you have actual, solid, unquestionable PROOF on these figures you are spouting? Not assumptions, but actual proof. I already know about the 800k report from last year. But, that was last year, not current. Therefore, you do not know how the actual number of how many have purchased boxes since then. Can you prove that, CURRENTLY, 200k are still subscribed? What if there is more or less?
My point is that you are using assumptions in place of statistics. Solid statistics should be have very little to no influence of biases of the researcher in them. They should be accurate to reflect reality. Your assumptions are not statistics. Therefore they are just random guesstimates... not proof. It also doesn't help that you all are changing said figure to meet your arguments rather than sticking your guns with one. Shows me that you don't know the validity of these "figures" either. In my opinion, until there's solid proof of these or any other future figures, for both sides, those figures are just self-serving biased crap.
No you are spouting off that the number isnt accurate and yet while theres room for interpretation it is still within an accepted range. Your flaming is out of line because again even using numbers that fanboys will back it is still at 80%.
Nowhere did I state that it is blatantly false. I stated that you have not posted one iota of fact to validate said figure. I have refuted your excuses for "proof". But I have not stated that it was false.
All you have done is provided hypotheticals. Hypotheticals are not fact. They are just "What if..." statements. I'm sorry that you can not see past your hate to actually understand this valid point.
I have asked you twice to do the math with the acepted numbers but you just choose to keep flaming people. The number is easily in the 80-90% range given the numbers out there. Once more....units sold-accounts active. Here Ill do it for you. Lets use a conservative number of say 1,000,000 sold. ( surely they have hit this number since the bragged about 800k months ago) and an optimistic number of 200k current players. Whats that percentage?
I'm not the one who is spouting the "90%" (now "80% - 90%" figure... guess you all do not know either) figure. Thus, I have no requirement to prove anything. The burden of proof is on you since you are the one spouting these figures.
Once more... do you have actual, solid, unquestionable PROOF on these figures you are spouting? Not assumptions, but actual proof. I already know about the 800k report from last year. But, that was last year, not current. Therefore, you do not know how the actual number of how many have purchased boxes since then. Can you prove that, CURRENTLY, 200k are still subscribed? What if there is more or less?
My point is that you are using assumptions in place of statistics. Solid statistics should be have very little to no influence of biases of the researcher in them. They should be accurate to reflect reality. Your assumptions are not statistics. Therefore they are just random guesstimates... not proof. It also doesn't help that you all are changing said figure to meet your arguments rather than sticking your guns with one. Shows me that you don't know the validity of these "figures" either. In my opinion, until there's solid proof of these or any other future figures, for both sides, those figures are just self-serving biased crap.
No you are spouting off that the number isnt accurate and yet while theres room for interpretation it is still within an accepted range. Your flaming is out of line because again even using numbers that fanboys will back it is still at 80%.
Nowhere did I state that it is blatantly false. I stated that you have not posted one iota of fact to validate said figure. I have refuted your excuses for "proof". But I have not stated that it was false.
All you have done is provided hypotheticals. Hypotheticals are not fact. They are just "What if..." statements. I'm sorry that you can not see past your hate to actually understand this valid point.
I will try to end this for the both of you.
We have two facts. They sold 1 mill copies. And they had 415k players at end of q308. That is all.
Try to crunch these numbers are meaningless. It may hovever give a better quess than pulling the number randomly but still no accurate number of how many subscribers AoC have now.
There are also a number of methods to make estimates. You can use number that correlate in some degree; use the facts of revenue from q408 and try to get some; you can use the "what the most ppl think is correct is correct"-method; "ask 37 experts and their average quess is the answer" (I dont remember the correct name for it of top of my head and to lazy to find it...) But still all these methods just give educated guesses at best. Some just makes the guessing more logical without any real logic behind it.(its to late sum up the discussions of the methods) MY POINT IS none of them gives 100% information; but when used correctly they can give an estimate/educated guess that is better than a random number.
Also the two "we know" numbers; 1 mill sold and 415 k players is inaccurate information. The 1 mill sold may be 2 mill now or still 1 mill as far as we know; even if ppl returned the boxes it might be 500k sold. The 415k players also had some nonsubscribers in it and tbh is getting old. So therefore it is inaccurate to use.
-New crafting recepies;(still crafting needs more love) that you can farm at level 80(not fun for me but some like this(hey some get their fix of old gymsocks who are we to judge)
-New Solo dungdeon
-New Group instance
-5 pvp levels(if you did not get the earlier)
-Gathering pvp materials and fight againgst thatguildyouhate in border kindoms.
-Raid dungdeons the old ones
-Epic kesh for t0 items
Thats from top of my mind.... But only been 80 for abouth a month now.... You see I rolled an alt when I hit 70 since funcom have added alot of new content on different levels. Black castle and ymirs pass is my favorite.
If you really wanna hit on the mark; level 70 to 80 is missing some content(unless you do all group instance and late 70 get a raid spot for those quests). I did theese levels grinding in group.
I wish pp could stop posting wrong information. (not opinions; but just plain outdated information)
The endgame? You cannot be serious:
#1: Worst crafting ever. What you craft is crap. Why would anyone come back when the gear they had in July/08 was 100%-500% better (literally) than what you can get now?
#2: New dungeon and a new instance. Wow. An extra villa and something resembling Onyx. Again for what...oh wait...crap gear that no one wants.
#3: 5 pvp levels: The only good gear in the game...best earned by a) making a level 25 twink in White Sands or b) ganking friends who do not fight back.
#4: Border Kingdom gank squads: Ya, well thought out. The PvE servers especially love it.
#5: Epic Khesh? Lol so I can farm 10 sets of the nerfed junk I had in June? No thanks.
I mean I guess this stuff is good if you don't know any better and you didn't play for the first 3 months. But if you did the only way you can earn anything remotely comparable is to farm PvP levels. And PvP in this game is a roller coaster of buffs and nerfs to the point that no one in their right mind would want to play it still.
This game is never going to earn its player base back. Sorry.
Tortage is fun. Once. After than it is boring, but like most other MMO's the first levels are confined, and after you are off of it, its totally different. This game is unique in a million ways, and is very very casual friendly(quick instances, pvp, and raids) That alone is fun. Doesn't take 3years to hit the level cap. Good for me.
Flaws? Which doesn't. But I stated why I love this game, my first AoC post was does it get better of Tortage, cause I am about to quit. Thankfully I didn't, I have a blast with my so called Gimped Dark Templar that I enjoy, and like all other MMOs due to raid re-run timers I did roll an alt if I don't want to pvp.
Tortage is fun. Once. After than it is boring, but like most other MMO's the first levels are confined, and after you are off of it, its totally different. This game is unique in a million ways, and is very very casual friendly(quick instances, pvp, and raids) That alone is fun. Doesn't take 3years to hit the level cap. Good for me. Flaws? Which doesn't. But I stated why I love this game, my first AoC post was does it get better of Tortage, cause I am about to quit. Thankfully I didn't, I have a blast with my so called Gimped Dark Templar that I enjoy, and like all other MMOs due to raid re-run timers I did roll an alt if I don't want to pvp.
The "only Tortage is fun" statement, is the haters medicine against new AoC players coming back to the forums to share their enjoyment of the AoC fun. Well, it's not like that. It's not only Tortage that's fun. In fact everything after tortage is so much better. Much, much less instanced, and have so much more action, loot and MMO feel.
Comments
It's not just MY opinion. Remember those 90% of players who quit? They ALSO had the same opinion.
Don't you get it? You fans of AoC.. YOU guys are the minority. YOU guys are the 10% of gamers who like AoC. Those other 90% didn't like it and have moved on to other games.
Just face it. Endgame in AoC is boring as hell. Admit it. Why do you think everyone rerolls or quits as soon as they hit 80?
Again, STOP pulling this "90%" figure out of your ass unless you have actual proof. No, not X-fire stats nor the "European financial genious" guy the haters quote all the time. No... actual proof, not guesstimations and self-serving "statistics".
There's a reason why scientific statistics are considered proof.... because they are controlled from all extraneous things that taint the data that the scientist is collecting to prove/disprove his/her hypothesis. The X-fire stats are not controlled in anyway shape or form. Not everyone uses X-fire... no one knows the exact % of AoC players (past and present) that uses X-fire, therefore, no one knows if the decline that the haters report is just representative of the overall AoC population, or just those that are using X-fire. Therefore, it's tainted and a very poor guesstimate at that. Thus, not actual proof.
Also, this "European financial genious" that the haters quote for finding out the "truth" of AoC's population is not proof as well. All he did was reverse engineer his math from the financial statements to try and find an actual "true" statistic on AoC's population. One major problem with that: Self -serving bias. We don't know the true motives of said "financial" person. And, since there was no control (ie neutral party observation and review) we have no way of knowing if his bias influenced his mathmatical equations. Therefore, those stats can be tainted as well. Thus, not showing reality through the statistics. Therefore, this is not proof as well.
Again, stop using the "90%" figure until you provide real proof on its validity.
I have asked you twice to do the math with the acepted numbers but you just choose to keep flaming people. The number is easily in the 80-90% range given the numbers out there. Once more....units sold-accounts active.
Here Ill do it for you. Lets use a conservative number of say 1,000,000 sold. ( surely they have hit this number since the bragged about 800k months ago) and an optimistic number of 200k current players. Whats that percentage?
I guess we all have different theories about the whys but I find most people I talked to felt the opposite. The felt it was too much like asingle player game. I think I was in my 30's before I even had to group with my guild to do anything.
Again opinions differ but I have NEVER heard that people didnt like the game because they like single player games.
I guess we all have different theories about the whys but I find most people I talked to felt the opposite. The felt it was too much like asingle player game. I think I was in my 30's before I even had to group with my guild to do anything.
Again opinions differ but I have NEVER heard that people didnt like the game because they like single player games.
Agreed. I actually like both style of games, so I am a misnomer.
The problem is that people thought Tortage was this whole single player affair, yet I took my wife with me through Tortage, and we decided to "skip" the Destiny quest and did all the sub quests. We made it to level 17, and was able to use the smuggler to leave. It was awesome fun.
And that is the point, people can have fun in various ways. I still hear people complain about Guild Wars, yet I think it has been the best MMO type expereince yet, as it does not play like all the other MMO's with their carrot/stick syndromes. Same for AoC...as I have several ways to play and enjoy it. I CAN group or solo...I have a choice.
That is what I like.
Haha thats funny because I thought the exact same thing, all along hearing "OMG tortage is awesome but once you leave it the game is boring and empty". That was enough for me to quit as I already thought Tortage sucked and if that was the best the game had to offer I didn't need to see any more.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
It's not just MY opinion. Remember those 90% of players who quit? They ALSO had the same opinion.
Don't you get it? You fans of AoC.. YOU guys are the minority. YOU guys are the 10% of gamers who like AoC. Those other 90% didn't like it and have moved on to other games.
Just face it. Endgame in AoC is boring as hell. Admit it. Why do you think everyone rerolls or quits as soon as they hit 80?
Again, STOP pulling this "90%" figure out of your ass unless you have actual proof. No, not X-fire stats nor the "European financial genious" guy the haters quote all the time. No... actual proof, not guesstimations and self-serving "statistics".
There's a reason why scientific statistics are considered proof.... because they are controlled from all extraneous things that taint the data that the scientist is collecting to prove/disprove his/her hypothesis. The X-fire stats are not controlled in anyway shape or form. Not everyone uses X-fire... no one knows the exact % of AoC players (past and present) that uses X-fire, therefore, no one knows if the decline that the haters report is just representative of the overall AoC population, or just those that are using X-fire. Therefore, it's tainted and a very poor guesstimate at that. Thus, not actual proof.
Also, this "European financial genious" that the haters quote for finding out the "truth" of AoC's population is not proof as well. All he did was reverse engineer his math from the financial statements to try and find an actual "true" statistic on AoC's population. One major problem with that: Self -serving bias. We don't know the true motives of said "financial" person. And, since there was no control (ie neutral party observation and review) we have no way of knowing if his bias influenced his mathmatical equations. Therefore, those stats can be tainted as well. Thus, not showing reality through the statistics. Therefore, this is not proof as well.
Again, stop using the "90%" figure until you provide real proof on its validity.
I have asked you twice to do the math with the acepted numbers but you just choose to keep flaming people. The number is easily in the 80-90% range given the numbers out there. Once more....units sold-accounts active.
Here Ill do it for you. Lets use a conservative number of say 1,000,000 sold. ( surely they have hit this number since the bragged about 800k months ago) and an optimistic number of 200k current players. Whats that percentage?
I'm not the one who is spouting the "90%" (now "80% - 90%" figure... guess you all do not know either) figure. Thus, I have no requirement to prove anything. The burden of proof is on you since you are the one spouting these figures.
Once more... do you have actual, solid, unquestionable PROOF on these figures you are spouting? Not assumptions, but actual proof. I already know about the 800k report from last year. But, that was last year, not current. Therefore, you do not know how the actual number of how many have purchased boxes since then. Can you prove that, CURRENTLY, 200k are still subscribed? What if there is more or less?
My point is that you are using assumptions in place of statistics. Solid statistics should be have very little to no influence of biases of the researcher in them. They should be accurate to reflect reality. Your assumptions are not statistics. Therefore they are just random guesstimates... not proof. It also doesn't help that you all are changing said figure to meet your arguments rather than sticking your guns with one. Shows me that you don't know the validity of these "figures" either. In my opinion, until there's solid proof of these or any other future figures, for both sides, those figures are just self-serving biased crap.
It's not just MY opinion. Remember those 90% of players who quit? They ALSO had the same opinion.
Don't you get it? You fans of AoC.. YOU guys are the minority. YOU guys are the 10% of gamers who like AoC. Those other 90% didn't like it and have moved on to other games.
Just face it. Endgame in AoC is boring as hell. Admit it. Why do you think everyone rerolls or quits as soon as they hit 80?
Again, STOP pulling this "90%" figure out of your ass unless you have actual proof. No, not X-fire stats nor the "European financial genious" guy the haters quote all the time. No... actual proof, not guesstimations and self-serving "statistics".
There's a reason why scientific statistics are considered proof.... because they are controlled from all extraneous things that taint the data that the scientist is collecting to prove/disprove his/her hypothesis. The X-fire stats are not controlled in anyway shape or form. Not everyone uses X-fire... no one knows the exact % of AoC players (past and present) that uses X-fire, therefore, no one knows if the decline that the haters report is just representative of the overall AoC population, or just those that are using X-fire. Therefore, it's tainted and a very poor guesstimate at that. Thus, not actual proof.
Also, this "European financial genious" that the haters quote for finding out the "truth" of AoC's population is not proof as well. All he did was reverse engineer his math from the financial statements to try and find an actual "true" statistic on AoC's population. One major problem with that: Self -serving bias. We don't know the true motives of said "financial" person. And, since there was no control (ie neutral party observation and review) we have no way of knowing if his bias influenced his mathmatical equations. Therefore, those stats can be tainted as well. Thus, not showing reality through the statistics. Therefore, this is not proof as well.
Again, stop using the "90%" figure until you provide real proof on its validity.
I have asked you twice to do the math with the acepted numbers but you just choose to keep flaming people. The number is easily in the 80-90% range given the numbers out there. Once more....units sold-accounts active.
Here Ill do it for you. Lets use a conservative number of say 1,000,000 sold. ( surely they have hit this number since the bragged about 800k months ago) and an optimistic number of 200k current players. Whats that percentage?
I'm not the one who is spouting the "90%" (now "80% - 90%" figure... guess you all do not know either) figure. Thus, I have no requirement to prove anything. The burden of proof is on you since you are the one spouting these figures.
Once more... do you have actual, solid, unquestionable PROOF on these figures you are spouting? Not assumptions, but actual proof. I already know about the 800k report from last year. But, that was last year, not current. Therefore, you do not know how the actual number of how many have purchased boxes since then. Can you prove that, CURRENTLY, 200k are still subscribed? What if there is more or less?
My point is that you are using assumptions in place of statistics. Solid statistics should be have very little to no influence of biases of the researcher in them. They should be accurate to reflect reality. Your assumptions are not statistics. Therefore they are just random guesstimates... not proof. It also doesn't help that you all are changing said figure to meet your arguments rather than sticking your guns with one. Shows me that you don't know the validity of these "figures" either. In my opinion, until there's solid proof of these or any other future figures, for both sides, those figures are just self-serving biased crap.
No you are spouting off that the number isnt accurate and yet while theres room for interpretation it is still within an accepted range. Your flaming is out of line because again even using numbers that fanboys will back it is still at 80%.
80% doesn't even support this quarters reported revenue, plus 180,000 players is way more then there are - it's not believable and does not come close to supporting next quarter's figures.
The range is half of that unless the fans are calling Funcom out on lying on financial reports! Anyone who played this game since release should know better, spend more time in game and less on the forums, that way you could have watched your guilds and friend lists fall well over 80%!
Funcom has reviewed all of its assets relevant for
impairment testing. This process has led to
recognition of an impairment loss of around
3,1 MUSD for Age of Conan due to a decrease in
numbers of subscribers for the game. Funcom Q4 10 report.
http://forums.ageofconan.com/showpost.php?p=2926123&postcount=7 500 mains/alts on Tyranny in past 30 days - instead of merge servers let's open a new PvP server, again! http://forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=106427
I guess we all have different theories about the whys but I find most people I talked to felt the opposite. The felt it was too much like asingle player game. I think I was in my 30's before I even had to group with my guild to do anything.
Again opinions differ but I have NEVER heard that people didnt like the game because they like single player games.
Agreed. I actually like both style of games, so I am a misnomer.
The problem is that people thought Tortage was this whole single player affair, yet I took my wife with me through Tortage, and we decided to "skip" the Destiny quest and did all the sub quests. We made it to level 17, and was able to use the smuggler to leave. It was awesome fun.
And that is the point, people can have fun in various ways. I still hear people complain about Guild Wars, yet I think it has been the best MMO type expereince yet, as it does not play like all the other MMO's with their carrot/stick syndromes. Same for AoC...as I have several ways to play and enjoy it. I CAN group or solo...I have a choice.
That is what I like.
Yes I am tweener also. I bounce between solo and group depending on my mood.
I'm not the one who is spouting the "90%" (now "80% - 90%" figure... guess you all do not know either) figure. Thus, I have no requirement to prove anything. The burden of proof is on you since you are the one spouting these figures.
Once more... do you have actual, solid, unquestionable PROOF on these figures you are spouting? Not assumptions, but actual proof. I already know about the 800k report from last year. But, that was last year, not current. Therefore, you do not know how the actual number of how many have purchased boxes since then. Can you prove that, CURRENTLY, 200k are still subscribed? What if there is more or less?
My point is that you are using assumptions in place of statistics. Solid statistics should be have very little to no influence of biases of the researcher in them. They should be accurate to reflect reality. Your assumptions are not statistics. Therefore they are just random guesstimates... not proof. It also doesn't help that you all are changing said figure to meet your arguments rather than sticking your guns with one. Shows me that you don't know the validity of these "figures" either. In my opinion, until there's solid proof of these or any other future figures, for both sides, those figures are just self-serving biased crap.
No you are spouting off that the number isnt accurate and yet while theres room for interpretation it is still within an accepted range. Your flaming is out of line because again even using numbers that fanboys will back it is still at 80%.
Nowhere did I state that it is blatantly false. I stated that you have not posted one iota of fact to validate said figure. I have refuted your excuses for "proof". But I have not stated that it was false.
All you have done is provided hypotheticals. Hypotheticals are not fact. They are just "What if..." statements. I'm sorry that you can not see past your hate to actually understand this valid point.
I'm not the one who is spouting the "90%" (now "80% - 90%" figure... guess you all do not know either) figure. Thus, I have no requirement to prove anything. The burden of proof is on you since you are the one spouting these figures.
Once more... do you have actual, solid, unquestionable PROOF on these figures you are spouting? Not assumptions, but actual proof. I already know about the 800k report from last year. But, that was last year, not current. Therefore, you do not know how the actual number of how many have purchased boxes since then. Can you prove that, CURRENTLY, 200k are still subscribed? What if there is more or less?
My point is that you are using assumptions in place of statistics. Solid statistics should be have very little to no influence of biases of the researcher in them. They should be accurate to reflect reality. Your assumptions are not statistics. Therefore they are just random guesstimates... not proof. It also doesn't help that you all are changing said figure to meet your arguments rather than sticking your guns with one. Shows me that you don't know the validity of these "figures" either. In my opinion, until there's solid proof of these or any other future figures, for both sides, those figures are just self-serving biased crap.
No you are spouting off that the number isnt accurate and yet while theres room for interpretation it is still within an accepted range. Your flaming is out of line because again even using numbers that fanboys will back it is still at 80%.
Nowhere did I state that it is blatantly false. I stated that you have not posted one iota of fact to validate said figure. I have refuted your excuses for "proof". But I have not stated that it was false.
All you have done is provided hypotheticals. Hypotheticals are not fact. They are just "What if..." statements. I'm sorry that you can not see past your hate to actually understand this valid point.
I will try to end this for the both of you.
We have two facts. They sold 1 mill copies. And they had 415k players at end of q308. That is all.
Try to crunch these numbers are meaningless. It may hovever give a better quess than pulling the number randomly but still no accurate number of how many subscribers AoC have now.
There are also a number of methods to make estimates. You can use number that correlate in some degree; use the facts of revenue from q408 and try to get some; you can use the "what the most ppl think is correct is correct"-method; "ask 37 experts and their average quess is the answer" (I dont remember the correct name for it of top of my head and to lazy to find it...) But still all these methods just give educated guesses at best. Some just makes the guessing more logical without any real logic behind it.(its to late sum up the discussions of the methods) MY POINT IS none of them gives 100% information; but when used correctly they can give an estimate/educated guess that is better than a random number.
Also the two "we know" numbers; 1 mill sold and 415 k players is inaccurate information. The 1 mill sold may be 2 mill now or still 1 mill as far as we know; even if ppl returned the boxes it might be 500k sold. The 415k players also had some nonsubscribers in it and tbh is getting old. So therefore it is inaccurate to use.
Hm... Have you checked endgame lately?
-New crafting recepies;(still crafting needs more love) that you can farm at level 80(not fun for me but some like this(hey some get their fix of old gymsocks who are we to judge)
-New Solo dungdeon
-New Group instance
-5 pvp levels(if you did not get the earlier)
-Gathering pvp materials and fight againgst thatguildyouhate in border kindoms.
-Raid dungdeons the old ones
-Epic kesh for t0 items
Thats from top of my mind.... But only been 80 for abouth a month now.... You see I rolled an alt when I hit 70 since funcom have added alot of new content on different levels. Black castle and ymirs pass is my favorite.
If you really wanna hit on the mark; level 70 to 80 is missing some content(unless you do all group instance and late 70 get a raid spot for those quests). I did theese levels grinding in group.
I wish pp could stop posting wrong information. (not opinions; but just plain outdated information)
The endgame? You cannot be serious:
#1: Worst crafting ever. What you craft is crap. Why would anyone come back when the gear they had in July/08 was 100%-500% better (literally) than what you can get now?
#2: New dungeon and a new instance. Wow. An extra villa and something resembling Onyx. Again for what...oh wait...crap gear that no one wants.
#3: 5 pvp levels: The only good gear in the game...best earned by a) making a level 25 twink in White Sands or b) ganking friends who do not fight back.
#4: Border Kingdom gank squads: Ya, well thought out. The PvE servers especially love it.
#5: Epic Khesh? Lol so I can farm 10 sets of the nerfed junk I had in June? No thanks.
I mean I guess this stuff is good if you don't know any better and you didn't play for the first 3 months. But if you did the only way you can earn anything remotely comparable is to farm PvP levels. And PvP in this game is a roller coaster of buffs and nerfs to the point that no one in their right mind would want to play it still.
This game is never going to earn its player base back. Sorry.
Making a new post, just to praise this game, just shows me that you are still only trying to convince yourself.
People who enjoy the game, have gone past the "marketing hype" stage, and would rather discuss what they like about the game.
GJ trying to play some mind games, but they fail in the end.
Tortage is fun. Once. After than it is boring, but like most other MMO's the first levels are confined, and after you are off of it, its totally different. This game is unique in a million ways, and is very very casual friendly(quick instances, pvp, and raids) That alone is fun. Doesn't take 3years to hit the level cap. Good for me.
Flaws? Which doesn't. But I stated why I love this game, my first AoC post was does it get better of Tortage, cause I am about to quit. Thankfully I didn't, I have a blast with my so called Gimped Dark Templar that I enjoy, and like all other MMOs due to raid re-run timers I did roll an alt if I don't want to pvp.
The "only Tortage is fun" statement, is the haters medicine against new AoC players coming back to the forums to share their enjoyment of the AoC fun. Well, it's not like that. It's not only Tortage that's fun. In fact everything after tortage is so much better. Much, much less instanced, and have so much more action, loot and MMO feel.