Wrong about the blue. Dead simply wrong. A myth. If you knew anything about pre Blizzard and early Blizzard projects you wouldn't say this. All I know is, Warhammer came first. WoW was second and, according to some book I read through Google Books, was directly inspired by the Warhammer lore. I will just say, however, that regardless of who came first and how much can be considered legitimate appropriation, Warhammer respects its own setting. World of Warcraft, with all its Haris Piltons, doesn't. It regards itself as one huge joke and doesn't really deserve to be taken seriously. Ultimately, it just reminds me of an old lawsuit I used to hear about, some novelist suing the producers of Falcon Crest for allegedly plagiarizing her idea of a family saga set in a vineyard. Falcon Crest won. How? By demonstrating how everyone had been using the same cliches for years -- Falcon Crest, the novelist's book, and previous examples even. In other words, they demonstrated that what they had been doing was routine crap just to show they could have copied someone else's routine crap by accident, because everybody was writing routine crap based on the same old formulas. Just shows that fantasy settings can pretty much be traced back to Tolkien, and that most of them are, well, routine crap. >>>> Source and reference please. You won't find anything official on that. Not from GW, not from Blizzard. And besides we are talking computer games here. You may like WAR, but as seen by the 75% closing servers (which were FULL and LOCKED at the end of September), it seems you are not followed by most fellows. The problem is ... a game needs to better than "ain't bad". A new mmorpg needs to be EXCELLENT and a push further UP compared to WotLK. What you guys just do NOT realise is that a" new world" to play in ... is NOT a basis for a game. And you're blaming EVE for not allowing you to step outside the cockpit... No matter what the strengths of that game are. WoW is raising the bar, true. But if you're intent on making a case of how much money one needs to put into a game to compete with WoW, I say stop this damn madness now. I want to be able to look around and find quasi-indie and niche MMO's out there that don't sell their soul to appeal to the lowest common denominator, which is what a game with WoW's price tag would have to do in order to be financially successful. That's why part of me hopes that PotBS and Darkfall, made on small budgets with skeleton crews, will be successful after all. And that's why another part of me couldn't care less about your damn flying mounts and helicopters, because it's the kind of POINTLESS eye candy that drives up the necessary budget for a game. If you want to turn such trivialities into key elements of game design that other games have to include just to compete with WoW (with you presumably declaring them failures anyway), I have no other choice but to object. Yours is the mentality that gave us the plotless Hollywood blockbuster, all special effects and zero originality, with a brain-dead story to boot. And it's dangerous. But it's just more of the same tyranny-of-the-majority claptrap I've come to expect from you. The game has to be BETTER than 'ain't bad". Because no one needs a 'ain't bad" copy of something we already have. Oh yes to play a bit and try it for a few sessions, but it "ain"t working that way. Any opinion is valid. But everyone agrees War did NOT walk like the way that Paul guy talked. And why didn't it? Barnett and Jacobs are quite low in the credibility department these days. But the real irony is that I remember reading all too often how WAR did not look enough like Dark Age of Camelot... and too much like WoW. In other words, too much like your beloved WoW to attract and keep people. That was the big mistake Mystic made.
And so with the last sentence ... we're back to square ONE, aren't we?
Actually, I was very explicit that it was what other people said of WAR. I for one never played Dark Age of Camelot, so I can't comment on whether WAR was a travesty of that game, or anything else. As for WAR itself, I stopped playing after a week (and up to level 8, I think, though I played on two servers and might have been higher on the other) because of performance issues, so while there are a few elements of WAR I can instinctively comment on (the pointlessness of the economy, or the problems with public quests). So I'm not exactly going to the bat for that game. I don't particularly care for WAR, but I'm just happy it's out there to offer an alternative to WoW if anyone seeks it.
And also, when I played WAR (immediately after release), I had yet to play WoW. So when I saw people write that it looked like WoW, I could not corroborate what they were saying. It was only when I started playing WoW that I saw that those people were right. Same cartoony art. Same pointless economy. Same overreliance on instancing. (WAR's public quests at least were a nice idea, if flawed in application).
You only played one lvl 46 character in Wow and you want the same credibility in analysing its "merits" against "raiding", PvP play, end game crafting, economy, ...
And I still wonder HOW in God's name. You have NO idea what Lake Wintergrasp is like, NO idea what the higher Battlegrounds are all about, NO idea of how important hi level crafting is for Raids, how much FUN it is to do achievements in secondary professions and how the game feels in its total end game concept...
Your famous lvl 78 friend who acted as an info source .... didn't even enter Lake Wintergrasp (seen on his amory).
Glad to know he's famous. And by the way, we're chatting right now, and he's telling me that he indeed try Lake Wintergrasp. In his words, "it was overwhelmingly unbalanced". He thinks you might reach that conclusion because he doesn't have the Wintergrasp Victory achievement; that's because he never won it.
Problem is ....War didn't even TOUCH the beginnings of Wow's concepts. But you wouldn't even know Mr lvl 46....
A focused PvP game with LESSER fluid controls and responsiveness, with LESSER massive battles 10 times a day...,with NO tank to tank battles, with NO destructable Keeps, with NO options for Arena competitions, not even a duel option.
Ooops, but I am forgetting you didn't even see those things in Wow also and still want to trash it in about EVERY post you make.
First level up and do some of the end game, then come back and discuss.
Just to be told at every negative comment anyone might make: "11.5 million +1"? No thanks.
Your problem is that your source of info is NOT yourself in the end game of Wow. You actually believe the nonsense Wow haters spread on mmorpg.com. So HOW would you even know War was anything but Wow in its end game....
I thought you had me down as a WoW hater... Now I'm just being fooled by them?
As I've said before, I'm not swallowing any of that "hardcore" claptrap about Darkfall. All they want is a steady supply of sheep, and nothing else -- and if you're not in a large "hardcore" guild, there's no chance in hell you will achieve anything in that sort of game. But WoW isn't my cup of tea. I find the setting disappointing, not because it's standard but because it doesn't take itself seriously.
But it goes beyond that. You're forcing me to like this game, while playing whack-a-mole with every other game on the market right now. Conan, WAR, Darkfall, now EVE, you name 'em. This I find beyond annoying.
Originally posted by Zorndorf Edit: That's why a lot of your arguments are strange to me... Helicopters and other flying mounts just for "the eye candy"???. You know it takes TRIPLE amount of resources to even make a FULL 3D "flying over "world than it takes a semi 3D/2D world with "blocking terrain" between the zones everywhere? The end game quests in WotLK are fully integrated with those flying mounts, they are designed to be played with flying mounts. Calling out such design decisions "trivial". Wow, so we could go back to Pac Man then. Because that one "ain't bad" either.
And just a comment on this, which you added while I was typing my previous reply.
That is precisely my point: Adding flying mounts takes up so many resources -- just for such a feature -- that it dramatically increases the cost of an MMO if you're expecting every new one to have this feature.
In case you haven't noticed, there's this little thing called a recession right now. Anything which drives up the cost of MMO's at this time is a bad thing to me, because it just means that less MMO's will be made if this level of sophistication is expected.
I have said elsewhere I was perfectly satisfied with graphics from 2004, which would have meant my 2007 computer would have been able to play them, unlike Conan or WAR (the first was choppy, and the second crashed all the time).
And if I may add: Games like Pac Man and Tetris endure for a reason, namely, good design. Good design requires serviceable graphics at best, and don't need bells and whistles such as flying mounts. Mount & Blade is another example made on a relatively small budget. And I could also mention Dwarf Fortress, which clearly has major points going for it despite its god-awful interface. Pac-Man and co. will still be played in 20 years? WoW? It's just eye candy. The design -- the bone structure -- is barely adequate.
Things such as flying mounts will kill off the indies if they are seen as a necessity in every new game. It will force every new publisher to aim for the lowest common denominator. And I for one don't want that.
Then why all the references to the magic figure of 11,500,000? Just see this post of yours, for instance.
I am forcing you to stop spitting opinions about 95% of gaming content you didn't even try.
If this is true, that I've seen only 5% of the game, ask yourself this: Why did Blizzard turn the lower levels into the most boring of journeys? If I'm not having fun at every step of the way, why am I bothering to play at all?
You didn't do Raids, you didn't do BG's, you didn't do the new open world PvP, you didn't do end game crafting.
Raids = larger dungeons. BG's are just another instance. Oh, I saw open world PvP, gank gank gank. That's what it was. In all its gratuitous and meaningless splendor. I crafted my dose of inanities. Endgame crafting just means the usual mad race for ingredients, and not even for profit I'd wager, if you want to take part in raids at all.
You don't even know what phasing is. Hell you only experienced one class to level 46. That's the prologue of a book.
Phasing is just a larger instance. Meaningless once you step out of it. The only meaningful thing is one that affects the entire server and all its players at one given time.
End game comments no one can make at lvl 46. So if that bothers you soo much, well stop posting without credibility.
And get rid of that silly banner "Lies all lies". Yep it is all a lie. Blizzard has its revenus coming from illegal Columbian Drug deals --- everyone knows that.
Perhaps reading less on mmorpg.com forums would help.
And, out of all of that, the things people look at to label the game as 'freak show' are 'motorcycles' and 'gyrocopters'?
Seriously?
The Aliens/Draenei should've brought some bad ass space ship/futuristic mounts with them. Instead... they have 'elephants', more or less. Where is their advanced technology now? I guess they gave it up to be totem slinging Shaman?
Then why all the references to the magic figure of 11,500,000? Just see this post of yours, for instance.
I am forcing you to stop spitting opinions about 95% of gaming content you didn't even try.
If this is true, that I've seen only 5% of the game, ask yourself this: Why did Blizzard turn the lower levels into the most boring of journeys? If I'm not having fun at every step of the way, why am I bothering to play at all?
You didn't do Raids, you didn't do BG's, you didn't do the new open world PvP, you didn't do end game crafting.
Raids = larger dungeons. BG's are just another instance. Oh, I saw open world PvP, gank gank gank. That's what it was. In all its gratuitous and meaningless splendor. I crafted my dose of inanities. Endgame crafting just means the usual mad race for ingredients, and not even for profit I'd wager, if you want to take part in raids at all.
You don't even know what phasing is. Hell you only experienced one class to level 46. That's the prologue of a book.
Phasing is just a larger instance. Meaningless once you step out of it. The only meaningful thing is one that affects the entire server and all its players at one given time.
End game comments no one can make at lvl 46. So if that bothers you soo much, well stop posting without credibility.
And get rid of that silly banner "Lies all lies". Yep it is all a lie. Blizzard has its revenus coming from illegal Columbian Drug deals --- everyone knows that.
Perhaps reading less on mmorpg.com forums would help.
In this post I can sum up already 4 errors of interpretation. And I am not even talking of interpretation, I am talking of EXPERIENCE. Experience you lack as a 5 week player with a stopped level 46 character....
Battlegrounds are just "another instance" ??? ... and then talk about ganking in open world PvP ?
So one is just like the other ? Because the ganking was apparently the only PvP you experienced ?
I played on a PvP server. Meaning you can get ganked anywhere, anytime. Please don't try to pretend that it doesn't exist; of course it's meaningless, considering you can't get looted anyway, so it's all gratuitous.
Battlegrounds are just instanced fights and I never bothered with them.
Raids = larger dungeons ? ??? You know what a Tier set is? Set Badges? Titles?
Bah, just gear. Always gear gear gear, it's like there is nothing else to this game. I never bothered with that. And it just means less demand for blacksmithing.
No profit to professions ???
Maybe in some sectors, but I never saw any for blacksmithing. Mining would probably do well, because the economy all about people seeking to level up instead of what they can do with it. Also, see above: How much of a player-driven economy can you have when so much of the gear is bind-on-pickup and inherently superior to craftables?
And I love the definition of phasing : just "another instance". World changes to the whole server ???
Won't be getting that in WoW, I know. Phasing doesn't affect the entire server. And all the while, Blizzard stays fully in charge of all the possible scenarios. Player impact on the world? Zero.
Wow just Wow. I wonder which game DID you play ???
Originally posted by zspawn And like a big fly to a steaming pile of shit, Zorndorf rallies to protect the oh so precious game he adores
I find this funny because you came running to the defense of Warhammer after a slight on the WoW boards.
I really have to wonder about this Veternias. After taking 6 weeks to play one character to level 46 he now appoints himself as some kind of crusader against WoW and feels it his divine duty to troll WoW. And he has armed himself with second hand knowledge gathered from the legions of WoW trolls that came before him.
On topic - so WoW has a lot of silly content, so what. Does WoW having helicopters or parasols detract in any way from the ultra seriousness of the MMOs you play? Did anyone get offended when previous MMOs like EQ1 or DAoC add robotic elements?
Originally posted by Zorndorf Edit: That's why a lot of your arguments are strange to me... Helicopters and other flying mounts just for "the eye candy"???. You know it takes TRIPLE amount of resources to even make a FULL 3D "flying over "world than it takes a semi 3D/2D world with "blocking terrain" between the zones everywhere? The end game quests in WotLK are fully integrated with those flying mounts, they are designed to be played with flying mounts. Calling out such design decisions "trivial". Wow, so we could go back to Pac Man then. Because that one "ain't bad" either.
And just a comment on this, which you added while I was typing my previous reply.
That is precisely my point: Adding flying mounts takes up so many resources -- just for such a feature -- that it dramatically increases the cost of an MMO if you're expecting every new one to have this feature.
In case you haven't noticed, there's this little thing called a recession right now. Anything which drives up the cost of MMO's at this time is a bad thing to me, because it just means that less MMO's will be made if this level of sophistication is expected.
I have said elsewhere I was perfectly satisfied with graphics from 2004, which would have meant my 2007 computer would have been able to play them, unlike Conan or WAR (the first was choppy, and the second crashed all the time).
And if I may add: Games like Pac Man and Tetris endure for a reason, namely, good design. Good design requires serviceable graphics at best, and don't need bells and whistles such as flying mounts. Mount & Blade is another example made on a relatively small budget. And I could also mention Dwarf Fortress, which clearly has major points going for it despite its god-awful interface. Pac-Man and co. will still be played in 20 years? WoW? It's just eye candy. The design -- the bone structure -- is barely adequate.
Things such as flying mounts will kill off the indies if they are seen as a necessity in every new game. It will force every new publisher to aim for the lowest common denominator. And I for one don't want that.
your taking this way way way way to seriously my friend
Originally posted by Zorndorf Edit: That's why a lot of your arguments are strange to me... Helicopters and other flying mounts just for "the eye candy"???. You know it takes TRIPLE amount of resources to even make a FULL 3D "flying over "world than it takes a semi 3D/2D world with "blocking terrain" between the zones everywhere? The end game quests in WotLK are fully integrated with those flying mounts, they are designed to be played with flying mounts. Calling out such design decisions "trivial". Wow, so we could go back to Pac Man then. Because that one "ain't bad" either.
And just a comment on this, which you added while I was typing my previous reply.
That is precisely my point: Adding flying mounts takes up so many resources -- just for such a feature -- that it dramatically increases the cost of an MMO if you're expecting every new one to have this feature. So you want to cut the cost of production for the sake of what? Well tell you what, do not eat or wear cloths, it drives up production cost. Do not live in a house, you are wasting the construction materials. FInd a cave and wrap yourself up in dried leaves.
In case you haven't noticed, there's this little thing called a recession right now. Anything which drives up the cost of MMO's at this time is a bad thing to me, because it just means that less MMO's will be made if this level of sophistication is expected. Do you know that one of the ways to combat recession is to promote the use of idle resources?
I have said elsewhere I was perfectly satisfied with graphics from 2004, which would have meant my 2007 computer would have been able to play them, unlike Conan or WAR (the first was choppy, and the second crashed all the time). Then go play the 2004 games, they are still here, many are.
And if I may add: Games like Pac Man and Tetris endure for a reason, namely, good design. Good design requires serviceable graphics at best, and don't need bells and whistles such as flying mounts. Mount & Blade is another example made on a relatively small budget. And I could also mention Dwarf Fortress, which clearly has major points going for it despite its god-awful interface. Pac-Man and co. will still be played in 20 years? WoW? It's just eye candy. The design -- the bone structure -- is barely adequate. Then go play them, why the crusade against the newer games.
Things such as flying mounts will kill off the indies if they are seen as a necessity in every new game. It will force every new publisher to aim for the lowest common denominator. And I for one don't want that. Ok lets phrase this again. NO ONE in the university should study as this would kill off those unable to enter a university. It will force every other kid to study hard. I for one do not want to study and want the others to remain as stupid as I am.
Since the Indies are unable to produce a big fancy game, Blizz should stop improving its product till the schoolkid based on a garage setup is able to catch up. Great logic. What will you propose next? Everyone stop thinking till you learn how to reason? Or maybe the whole world stop rolling forward till you wake up.
Originally posted by Zorndorf Edit: That's why a lot of your arguments are strange to me... Helicopters and other flying mounts just for "the eye candy"???. You know it takes TRIPLE amount of resources to even make a FULL 3D "flying over "world than it takes a semi 3D/2D world with "blocking terrain" between the zones everywhere? The end game quests in WotLK are fully integrated with those flying mounts, they are designed to be played with flying mounts. Calling out such design decisions "trivial". Wow, so we could go back to Pac Man then. Because that one "ain't bad" either.
And just a comment on this, which you added while I was typing my previous reply.
That is precisely my point: Adding flying mounts takes up so many resources -- just for such a feature -- that it dramatically increases the cost of an MMO if you're expecting every new one to have this feature. So you want to cut the cost of production for the sake of what? Well tell you what, do not eat or wear cloths, it drives up production cost. Do not live in a house, you are wasting the construction materials. FInd a cave and wrap yourself up in dried leaves.
In case you haven't noticed, there's this little thing called a recession right now. Anything which drives up the cost of MMO's at this time is a bad thing to me, because it just means that less MMO's will be made if this level of sophistication is expected. Do you know that one of the ways to combat recession is to promote the use of idle resources?
I have said elsewhere I was perfectly satisfied with graphics from 2004, which would have meant my 2007 computer would have been able to play them, unlike Conan or WAR (the first was choppy, and the second crashed all the time). Then go play the 2004 games, they are still here, many are.
And if I may add: Games like Pac Man and Tetris endure for a reason, namely, good design. Good design requires serviceable graphics at best, and don't need bells and whistles such as flying mounts. Mount & Blade is another example made on a relatively small budget. And I could also mention Dwarf Fortress, which clearly has major points going for it despite its god-awful interface. Pac-Man and co. will still be played in 20 years? WoW? It's just eye candy. The design -- the bone structure -- is barely adequate. Then go play them, why the crusade against the newer games.
Things such as flying mounts will kill off the indies if they are seen as a necessity in every new game. It will force every new publisher to aim for the lowest common denominator. And I for one don't want that. Ok lets phrase this again. NO ONE in the university should study as this would kill off those unable to enter a university. It will force every other kid to study hard. I for one do not want to study and want the others to remain as stupid as I am.
Since the Indies are unable to produce a big fancy game, Blizz should stop improving its product till the schoolkid based on a garage setup is able to catch up. Great logic. What will you propose next? Everyone stop thinking till you learn how to reason? Or maybe the whole world stop rolling forward till you wake up.
Ah yes, that beautiful libertarian logic that always reaches for a ridiculous straw-man extrapolation. The question isn't whether you can achieve equality of outcome (you can't, not even in societies which forcibly tried to achieve it), but how you treat the losers. The glorious US of A has always been one of the worst offenders.
But that wasn't my point at all when I posted that above. It was, specifically, a rebuttal of Zorndorf's views:
-Making such a thing as flying mounts necessary (by Zorn's standards) just means they have to be in the game, otherwise it's not WoW. It does seem to me that the criterion is pretty much intended as a guarantee that no other game will rival WoW.
If WoW has the budget for such things, it's all good. But don't make them a requirement for MMO success. Not to mention that this quest for better graphics, etc, seems to have underneath it a sort of unshakeable belief in progress. I, for one, don't share that belief, whether for gaming or anything else.
Oh, I'm not one of those nostalgic "old-school" gamers who look back at UO (pre-Trammel, of course) as the greatest moment in the history of gaming. But as far as MMO's go, you have a lethal combination of two factors right now: The quest for better graphics, and WoW dwarfing the competition in subscription numbers. So you get games which are not only far more expensive to produce, but always aim for the lowest common denominator.
All I want are some niche games that don't follow the WoW norm in everything -- and what I don't want is people who start comparing everything to WoW as an indicator of quality.
Warcraft Lore copied and expanded on many aspects of Warhammer Lore.
World of Warcraft was released before Warhammer Online and introduced independent lore of warhammer (Dragonflights, the undead, titans, and dreadlords to name a few)
Warhammer online was released 3 years after World of Warcraft and Warhammer online is inferior to world of warcraft and does not do justice to the Warhammer lore itself (coming from a past player....although I recently resubbed to find the game still lacking)
World of warcraft is an expansion of warcraft 1-3 including their expansions.
Warcraft 1-3 not only had an emphasis on magic and melee, but also on engineering. This engineering including guns, catapults, HELICOPTERS, and demolition squards to name a few.
So, to understand warcraft lore is to understand that motorcycles actually fit into the game well. To people that do not understand this, well, they do not understand Warcraft.
Warcraft 1-3 not only had an emphasis on magic and melee, but also on engineering. This engineering including guns, catapults, HELICOPTERS, and demolition squards to name a few.
and you guys missed the real point .you can sit in the backseat with driver of motercycle.it looked so awesome when i sat with a dranei female on her motercycle and she could do nothing:D
Comments
And so with the last sentence ... we're back to square ONE, aren't we?
Actually, I was very explicit that it was what other people said of WAR. I for one never played Dark Age of Camelot, so I can't comment on whether WAR was a travesty of that game, or anything else. As for WAR itself, I stopped playing after a week (and up to level 8, I think, though I played on two servers and might have been higher on the other) because of performance issues, so while there are a few elements of WAR I can instinctively comment on (the pointlessness of the economy, or the problems with public quests). So I'm not exactly going to the bat for that game. I don't particularly care for WAR, but I'm just happy it's out there to offer an alternative to WoW if anyone seeks it.
And also, when I played WAR (immediately after release), I had yet to play WoW. So when I saw people write that it looked like WoW, I could not corroborate what they were saying. It was only when I started playing WoW that I saw that those people were right. Same cartoony art. Same pointless economy. Same overreliance on instancing. (WAR's public quests at least were a nice idea, if flawed in application).
You only played one lvl 46 character in Wow and you want the same credibility in analysing its "merits" against "raiding", PvP play, end game crafting, economy, ...
And I still wonder HOW in God's name. You have NO idea what Lake Wintergrasp is like, NO idea what the higher Battlegrounds are all about, NO idea of how important hi level crafting is for Raids, how much FUN it is to do achievements in secondary professions and how the game feels in its total end game concept...
Your famous lvl 78 friend who acted as an info source .... didn't even enter Lake Wintergrasp (seen on his amory).
Glad to know he's famous. And by the way, we're chatting right now, and he's telling me that he indeed try Lake Wintergrasp. In his words, "it was overwhelmingly unbalanced". He thinks you might reach that conclusion because he doesn't have the Wintergrasp Victory achievement; that's because he never won it.
Problem is ....War didn't even TOUCH the beginnings of Wow's concepts. But you wouldn't even know Mr lvl 46....
A focused PvP game with LESSER fluid controls and responsiveness, with LESSER massive battles 10 times a day...,with NO tank to tank battles, with NO destructable Keeps, with NO options for Arena competitions, not even a duel option.
Ooops, but I am forgetting you didn't even see those things in Wow also and still want to trash it in about EVERY post you make.
First level up and do some of the end game, then come back and discuss.
Just to be told at every negative comment anyone might make: "11.5 million +1"? No thanks.
Your problem is that your source of info is NOT yourself in the end game of Wow. You actually believe the nonsense Wow haters spread on mmorpg.com. So HOW would you even know War was anything but Wow in its end game....
I thought you had me down as a WoW hater... Now I'm just being fooled by them?
As I've said before, I'm not swallowing any of that "hardcore" claptrap about Darkfall. All they want is a steady supply of sheep, and nothing else -- and if you're not in a large "hardcore" guild, there's no chance in hell you will achieve anything in that sort of game. But WoW isn't my cup of tea. I find the setting disappointing, not because it's standard but because it doesn't take itself seriously.
But it goes beyond that. You're forcing me to like this game, while playing whack-a-mole with every other game on the market right now. Conan, WAR, Darkfall, now EVE, you name 'em. This I find beyond annoying.
And just a comment on this, which you added while I was typing my previous reply.
That is precisely my point: Adding flying mounts takes up so many resources -- just for such a feature -- that it dramatically increases the cost of an MMO if you're expecting every new one to have this feature.
In case you haven't noticed, there's this little thing called a recession right now. Anything which drives up the cost of MMO's at this time is a bad thing to me, because it just means that less MMO's will be made if this level of sophistication is expected.
I have said elsewhere I was perfectly satisfied with graphics from 2004, which would have meant my 2007 computer would have been able to play them, unlike Conan or WAR (the first was choppy, and the second crashed all the time).
And if I may add: Games like Pac Man and Tetris endure for a reason, namely, good design. Good design requires serviceable graphics at best, and don't need bells and whistles such as flying mounts. Mount & Blade is another example made on a relatively small budget. And I could also mention Dwarf Fortress, which clearly has major points going for it despite its god-awful interface. Pac-Man and co. will still be played in 20 years? WoW? It's just eye candy. The design -- the bone structure -- is barely adequate.
Things such as flying mounts will kill off the indies if they are seen as a necessity in every new game. It will force every new publisher to aim for the lowest common denominator. And I for one don't want that.
I am not forcing you to love Wow.
Then why all the references to the magic figure of 11,500,000? Just see this post of yours, for instance.
I am forcing you to stop spitting opinions about 95% of gaming content you didn't even try.
If this is true, that I've seen only 5% of the game, ask yourself this: Why did Blizzard turn the lower levels into the most boring of journeys? If I'm not having fun at every step of the way, why am I bothering to play at all?
You didn't do Raids, you didn't do BG's, you didn't do the new open world PvP, you didn't do end game crafting.
Raids = larger dungeons. BG's are just another instance. Oh, I saw open world PvP, gank gank gank. That's what it was. In all its gratuitous and meaningless splendor. I crafted my dose of inanities. Endgame crafting just means the usual mad race for ingredients, and not even for profit I'd wager, if you want to take part in raids at all.
You don't even know what phasing is. Hell you only experienced one class to level 46. That's the prologue of a book.
Phasing is just a larger instance. Meaningless once you step out of it. The only meaningful thing is one that affects the entire server and all its players at one given time.
End game comments no one can make at lvl 46. So if that bothers you soo much, well stop posting without credibility.
And get rid of that silly banner "Lies all lies". Yep it is all a lie. Blizzard has its revenus coming from illegal Columbian Drug deals --- everyone knows that.
Perhaps reading less on mmorpg.com forums would help.
WoW has...
Dragons, Aliens, Ghosts, Zombies, Werewolves (Worgen), Undead, Magic, Reincarnation, Resurection, Water-Walking, Shape Shifting (druid/shaman), Magic Carpets, etc.,..
And, out of all of that, the things people look at to label the game as 'freak show' are 'motorcycles' and 'gyrocopters'?
Seriously?
The Aliens/Draenei should've brought some bad ass space ship/futuristic mounts with them. Instead... they have 'elephants', more or less. Where is their advanced technology now? I guess they gave it up to be totem slinging Shaman?
I am not forcing you to love Wow.
Then why all the references to the magic figure of 11,500,000? Just see this post of yours, for instance.
I am forcing you to stop spitting opinions about 95% of gaming content you didn't even try.
If this is true, that I've seen only 5% of the game, ask yourself this: Why did Blizzard turn the lower levels into the most boring of journeys? If I'm not having fun at every step of the way, why am I bothering to play at all?
You didn't do Raids, you didn't do BG's, you didn't do the new open world PvP, you didn't do end game crafting.
Raids = larger dungeons. BG's are just another instance. Oh, I saw open world PvP, gank gank gank. That's what it was. In all its gratuitous and meaningless splendor. I crafted my dose of inanities. Endgame crafting just means the usual mad race for ingredients, and not even for profit I'd wager, if you want to take part in raids at all.
You don't even know what phasing is. Hell you only experienced one class to level 46. That's the prologue of a book.
Phasing is just a larger instance. Meaningless once you step out of it. The only meaningful thing is one that affects the entire server and all its players at one given time.
End game comments no one can make at lvl 46. So if that bothers you soo much, well stop posting without credibility.
And get rid of that silly banner "Lies all lies". Yep it is all a lie. Blizzard has its revenus coming from illegal Columbian Drug deals --- everyone knows that.
Perhaps reading less on mmorpg.com forums would help.
In this post I can sum up already 4 errors of interpretation. And I am not even talking of interpretation, I am talking of EXPERIENCE. Experience you lack as a 5 week player with a stopped level 46 character....
Battlegrounds are just "another instance" ??? ... and then talk about ganking in open world PvP ?
So one is just like the other ? Because the ganking was apparently the only PvP you experienced ?
I played on a PvP server. Meaning you can get ganked anywhere, anytime. Please don't try to pretend that it doesn't exist; of course it's meaningless, considering you can't get looted anyway, so it's all gratuitous.
Battlegrounds are just instanced fights and I never bothered with them.
Raids = larger dungeons ? ??? You know what a Tier set is? Set Badges? Titles?
Bah, just gear. Always gear gear gear, it's like there is nothing else to this game. I never bothered with that. And it just means less demand for blacksmithing.
No profit to professions ???
Maybe in some sectors, but I never saw any for blacksmithing. Mining would probably do well, because the economy all about people seeking to level up instead of what they can do with it. Also, see above: How much of a player-driven economy can you have when so much of the gear is bind-on-pickup and inherently superior to craftables?
And I love the definition of phasing : just "another instance". World changes to the whole server ???
Won't be getting that in WoW, I know. Phasing doesn't affect the entire server. And all the while, Blizzard stays fully in charge of all the possible scenarios. Player impact on the world? Zero.
Wow just Wow. I wonder which game DID you play ???
I really have to wonder about this Veternias. After taking 6 weeks to play one character to level 46 he now appoints himself as some kind of crusader against WoW and feels it his divine duty to troll WoW. And he has armed himself with second hand knowledge gathered from the legions of WoW trolls that came before him.
On topic - so WoW has a lot of silly content, so what. Does WoW having helicopters or parasols detract in any way from the ultra seriousness of the MMOs you play? Did anyone get offended when previous MMOs like EQ1 or DAoC add robotic elements?
Hehe some award winning stuff here. Jealousy (not to mention ignorance and stupidity) is a powerful thing indeed.
"It is my opinion, that my opinions are always right"
And just a comment on this, which you added while I was typing my previous reply.
That is precisely my point: Adding flying mounts takes up so many resources -- just for such a feature -- that it dramatically increases the cost of an MMO if you're expecting every new one to have this feature.
In case you haven't noticed, there's this little thing called a recession right now. Anything which drives up the cost of MMO's at this time is a bad thing to me, because it just means that less MMO's will be made if this level of sophistication is expected.
I have said elsewhere I was perfectly satisfied with graphics from 2004, which would have meant my 2007 computer would have been able to play them, unlike Conan or WAR (the first was choppy, and the second crashed all the time).
And if I may add: Games like Pac Man and Tetris endure for a reason, namely, good design. Good design requires serviceable graphics at best, and don't need bells and whistles such as flying mounts. Mount & Blade is another example made on a relatively small budget. And I could also mention Dwarf Fortress, which clearly has major points going for it despite its god-awful interface. Pac-Man and co. will still be played in 20 years? WoW? It's just eye candy. The design -- the bone structure -- is barely adequate.
Things such as flying mounts will kill off the indies if they are seen as a necessity in every new game. It will force every new publisher to aim for the lowest common denominator. And I for one don't want that.
your taking this way way way way to seriously my friend
And just a comment on this, which you added while I was typing my previous reply.
That is precisely my point: Adding flying mounts takes up so many resources -- just for such a feature -- that it dramatically increases the cost of an MMO if you're expecting every new one to have this feature. So you want to cut the cost of production for the sake of what? Well tell you what, do not eat or wear cloths, it drives up production cost. Do not live in a house, you are wasting the construction materials. FInd a cave and wrap yourself up in dried leaves.
In case you haven't noticed, there's this little thing called a recession right now. Anything which drives up the cost of MMO's at this time is a bad thing to me, because it just means that less MMO's will be made if this level of sophistication is expected. Do you know that one of the ways to combat recession is to promote the use of idle resources?
I have said elsewhere I was perfectly satisfied with graphics from 2004, which would have meant my 2007 computer would have been able to play them, unlike Conan or WAR (the first was choppy, and the second crashed all the time). Then go play the 2004 games, they are still here, many are.
And if I may add: Games like Pac Man and Tetris endure for a reason, namely, good design. Good design requires serviceable graphics at best, and don't need bells and whistles such as flying mounts. Mount & Blade is another example made on a relatively small budget. And I could also mention Dwarf Fortress, which clearly has major points going for it despite its god-awful interface. Pac-Man and co. will still be played in 20 years? WoW? It's just eye candy. The design -- the bone structure -- is barely adequate. Then go play them, why the crusade against the newer games.
Things such as flying mounts will kill off the indies if they are seen as a necessity in every new game. It will force every new publisher to aim for the lowest common denominator. And I for one don't want that. Ok lets phrase this again. NO ONE in the university should study as this would kill off those unable to enter a university. It will force every other kid to study hard. I for one do not want to study and want the others to remain as stupid as I am.
Since the Indies are unable to produce a big fancy game, Blizz should stop improving its product till the schoolkid based on a garage setup is able to catch up. Great logic. What will you propose next? Everyone stop thinking till you learn how to reason? Or maybe the whole world stop rolling forward till you wake up.
And just a comment on this, which you added while I was typing my previous reply.
That is precisely my point: Adding flying mounts takes up so many resources -- just for such a feature -- that it dramatically increases the cost of an MMO if you're expecting every new one to have this feature. So you want to cut the cost of production for the sake of what? Well tell you what, do not eat or wear cloths, it drives up production cost. Do not live in a house, you are wasting the construction materials. FInd a cave and wrap yourself up in dried leaves.
In case you haven't noticed, there's this little thing called a recession right now. Anything which drives up the cost of MMO's at this time is a bad thing to me, because it just means that less MMO's will be made if this level of sophistication is expected. Do you know that one of the ways to combat recession is to promote the use of idle resources?
I have said elsewhere I was perfectly satisfied with graphics from 2004, which would have meant my 2007 computer would have been able to play them, unlike Conan or WAR (the first was choppy, and the second crashed all the time). Then go play the 2004 games, they are still here, many are.
And if I may add: Games like Pac Man and Tetris endure for a reason, namely, good design. Good design requires serviceable graphics at best, and don't need bells and whistles such as flying mounts. Mount & Blade is another example made on a relatively small budget. And I could also mention Dwarf Fortress, which clearly has major points going for it despite its god-awful interface. Pac-Man and co. will still be played in 20 years? WoW? It's just eye candy. The design -- the bone structure -- is barely adequate. Then go play them, why the crusade against the newer games.
Things such as flying mounts will kill off the indies if they are seen as a necessity in every new game. It will force every new publisher to aim for the lowest common denominator. And I for one don't want that. Ok lets phrase this again. NO ONE in the university should study as this would kill off those unable to enter a university. It will force every other kid to study hard. I for one do not want to study and want the others to remain as stupid as I am.
Since the Indies are unable to produce a big fancy game, Blizz should stop improving its product till the schoolkid based on a garage setup is able to catch up. Great logic. What will you propose next? Everyone stop thinking till you learn how to reason? Or maybe the whole world stop rolling forward till you wake up.
Ah yes, that beautiful libertarian logic that always reaches for a ridiculous straw-man extrapolation. The question isn't whether you can achieve equality of outcome (you can't, not even in societies which forcibly tried to achieve it), but how you treat the losers. The glorious US of A has always been one of the worst offenders.
But that wasn't my point at all when I posted that above. It was, specifically, a rebuttal of Zorndorf's views:
-Making such a thing as flying mounts necessary (by Zorn's standards) just means they have to be in the game, otherwise it's not WoW. It does seem to me that the criterion is pretty much intended as a guarantee that no other game will rival WoW.
If WoW has the budget for such things, it's all good. But don't make them a requirement for MMO success. Not to mention that this quest for better graphics, etc, seems to have underneath it a sort of unshakeable belief in progress. I, for one, don't share that belief, whether for gaming or anything else.
Oh, I'm not one of those nostalgic "old-school" gamers who look back at UO (pre-Trammel, of course) as the greatest moment in the history of gaming. But as far as MMO's go, you have a lethal combination of two factors right now: The quest for better graphics, and WoW dwarfing the competition in subscription numbers. So you get games which are not only far more expensive to produce, but always aim for the lowest common denominator.
All I want are some niche games that don't follow the WoW norm in everything -- and what I don't want is people who start comparing everything to WoW as an indicator of quality.
Im going to end this thread right now.
Warcraft Lore copied and expanded on many aspects of Warhammer Lore.
World of Warcraft was released before Warhammer Online and introduced independent lore of warhammer (Dragonflights, the undead, titans, and dreadlords to name a few)
Warhammer online was released 3 years after World of Warcraft and Warhammer online is inferior to world of warcraft and does not do justice to the Warhammer lore itself (coming from a past player....although I recently resubbed to find the game still lacking)
World of warcraft is an expansion of warcraft 1-3 including their expansions.
Warcraft 1-3 not only had an emphasis on magic and melee, but also on engineering. This engineering including guns, catapults, HELICOPTERS, and demolition squards to name a few.
So, to understand warcraft lore is to understand that motorcycles actually fit into the game well. To people that do not understand this, well, they do not understand Warcraft.
Some people will never realize that Warhammer did not invent orcs and elves.
Also , there were steampunk elements in Warcraft since the very beginning.
'Most powerful is he who controls his own power.'
I remember submarines in WC2 too
www.battle.net/war2/units/submarine.shtml
EQ2 fan sites
Freakshow no. Three ring Circus yes and the devs are the star attraction.
Patch 3.1.0 PTR Notes.
* Spirit: The amount of mana regeneration granted by this stat has been reduced by 40%.
Spiritual Attunement: Removed from trainers. It is now available deep in the Protection tree for 2 ranks at 5/10%.
Glyph of Seal of Blood: Grants 30% bonus mana from Spiritual Attunement.
Freak show? Always has been as far as I'm concerned at least as far as the community goes.
and you guys missed the real point .you can sit in the backseat with driver of motercycle.it looked so awesome when i sat with a dranei female on her motercycle and she could do nothing:D