because trying to find a group in a class based game is never fun, never enough of healers or tanks. ie. in group pvp and pve in guildwars most of your time is literally spent waiting around for the right classes. so soloing PvE with henchmen or random team PvP is far more enjoyable since its 100% gameplay.
grouping in games like darkfall will probably be more fun because its classless. raiding/group pve with no number limits or specific class roles, no more waiting around.
The technical answer is that grouping takes time and effort something people generally don't want to invest in during their play time. So we have soloable worlds with group instances. I have no issue with that.
The bigger answer is there are no MMO ish single players RPGs available. If I could find a game like LotRO or CoX offline I might not play so many MMOs.
Then there's like the OP said not a whole lots of easy ways to get groups started. Outside of CoX and to some extent WAR I've not seen any real tools for getting people grouped that are used. Helps that CoX scales to team size so teams equal more fun through chaos and more xp so win win.
I'm all up for grouping, after all we're talking mmo's right? But one dungeon or another along the way would be a great thing me thinks!!! A really great thing!
In the market square: -Oh man, you downed that awful dragon? -Yes I did:)
I recommend FFXI to you OP. Almost no solo content aside from crafting and farming. You can group to your heart's content.
There's a difference between a good grouping game, and a crappy Asian grinder that's a grouping game. EQ, DAoC, good grouping games. FFXI, crappy Asian grinder grouping game.
Here you have FFXI a very group focus MMO with great pve and you complain it being a grinding game.
"I want a hard grouping mmo that is easy to reach max level!" LOL
I'm not a FFXI fanboi, but calling FFXI a crappy mmo? The world is huge. Great pve and crafting. Good artwork and gameplay. Its definitely a worthy mmo to play.
Originally posted by Cetra Originally posted by Ihmotepp Originally posted by leinad312 I recommend FFXI to you OP. Almost no solo content aside from crafting and farming. You can group to your heart's content.
There's a difference between a good grouping game, and a crappy Asian grinder that's a grouping game. EQ, DAoC, good grouping games. FFXI, crappy Asian grinder grouping game.
Here you have FFXI a very group focus MMO with great pve and you complain it being a grinding game. "I want a hard grouping mmo that is easy to reach max level!" LOL I'm not a FFXI fanboi, but calling FFXI a crappy mmo? The world is huge. Great pve and crafting. Good artwork and gameplay. Its definitely a worthy mmo to play. stop yr hardcore acting.
Ihmo is ok.. he just gets over active with the pvp in his blood.^^
Most people who haven't passed the halfway mark in FFXI generally have this view. It is by far the most group reliant game on the MMO scene today. Not playing well with others in the six man group will get you blacklisted on any server, forcing you to be a hermit and wander Jeuno with a LFG sign above your head forever. (or being a Dragoon back in the day^^)
There is a difference between, say, Silkroad Online, Perfect World, 2moons, or Rappelz and Final Fantasy XI. Anyone who has played them all knows the difference.
i would solo in eq on ralloz all the time the rush of not knowing if you were going to get jumped when you are fighing a mob was the best, i solo cause i can if i want to play singler player games i do, wow i can chose to do what ever i want !! that is crazy....
How could grouping possibly be fun and rewarding, if you can solo? That makes no sense. It's like you're saying, hey, we lowered the basketball hoop to 3 feet, because not everyone likes to make a hard shot. But if you want it to be harder, just close your eyes. See, everyone can play how they want!
I find grouping with friends fun and rewarding no matter what we do together. But then again I don't view MMOs as a competition or sport. It isn't like saying lower the hoop to 3 feet. It's like saying you need 3 hoops, one 3 feet, one 6 feet, and one 10 feet! If you want to use an analogy how about card games? Some you can play solo, others with a friend. Still others are more fun with a group. Some people just like solitaire.
I want variety in my MMOs. I want group, duo, and solo content. I want combat and non-combat play options. I don't want to be stuck doing the same type of thing all the time. The games that give me options will be more likely to get my money. Lots of people seem to feel the same way. I don't see many MMOs with only grouping, and I don't see many with nothing but solo content either.
/smacks forehead with hand.
It's the NBA and there are 3 hoops, 3 feet, 6 feet, and 10 feet.
You really, seriously, honestly, think any team is going to shoot for the 10 foot hoop when they get the same points from the 3 foot hoop?
If you don't see the point in soloing, then just don't solo, period. To everyone who does, there would be varying lists of the reasons they like to do so, but what it comes down to is this; people play solo because that is what they feel like doing at the time. Freedom is a big part of the draw to any mmo, and being Forced to group is not and won't ever be what " it's all about", instead is more then likely one of the biggest factors in keeping people away from these games they would otherwise enjoy.
If you don't see the point in soloing, then just don't solo, period. To everyone who does, there would be varying lists of the reasons they like to do so, but what it comes down to is this; people play solo because that is what they feel like doing at the time. Freedom is a big part of the draw to any mmo, and being Forced to group is not and won't ever be what " it's all about", instead is more then likely one of the biggest factors in keeping people away from these games they would otherwise enjoy.
It's either forced group, or forced solo. Take your pick, but you can't have both.
Playing a Tank as I do wherever possible, I have to say that a good night of grouping is the best thing this genre has to offer.
If I'm taking aggro and the healer is curing me, the DeBuffers and Dmg Dealers are free to do their thing, that's the game. And we're winning it. That's how FFXI is for me.
There are times, however, when I want to log in and farm that last couple for a level or get some crafting materials. I like having that option as well.
It's a tightrope for devs to walk, to have soloable content but make it more worthwhile to group. Unfortunately solo is the easy way for people to go without the worry of being "That Guy Who Got Us Wiped" in todays no consequence MMORPGs.
(And I say this in terms of the majority of class-based games we see today. Games like EVE are another story.)
/smacks forehead with hand. It's the NBA and there are 3 hoops, 3 feet, 6 feet, and 10 feet. You really, seriously, honestly, think any team is going to shoot for the 10 foot hoop when they get the same points from the 3 foot hoop? Seriously? You're kidding right?
I usually try not to be negative, but that analogy is retarded. In basketball there is the hoop and the ball. After all the restriction. the player have a choice of getting that ball through the basket anyway they want. It could be from a 3 pointer, jump shot, slam dunk, or what ever. Hell, in a game of basketball, a person don't even have to make a single point, he can just be a good guard, assist, and/or rebounder. Then the team have the option of and aggressive style and go mostly offense, have a tight defense, or what ever balance they want.
The whole point of having solo contention, crafting, gathering, and all the other option including grouping is to give people choices thus attracting a wider audience.
Now let get back to your 3 feet, 6 feet, and 10 feet anology. Let say the 3 feet only worth 1 point, the 6 feet worth 2, and the 10 feet worth 5. Given that option, do you think everybody going to be aiming for the 3 feet one only?
What is it with devs nowadays? MMO is for grouping and having fun together and i haven't seen a game apart from LOTRO that actually rewards grouping... Few months back i got around to play WoW trial to finally see what's the big fuss about it. I was pleased by the smoothness of graphics, cartoony looks, great UI, quests, etc. but the thing that surprised me the most was that although others players were running around not one would group with me... Then my mate told me that WoW doesn't really reward grouping as it's splits rewardsand xp between the members of the group. Then i tried EQ2 and guess what? Pretty much the same situation... Vanguard wasn't better either. Not to mention Tabula Rasa where you were able to solo entire game (even instances).
All i hear on forums is solo this, solo that. Frack that. Even in WAR PvE questing is a solo affair, although fair enough for everything else grouping is essential and with the best LFG system to date. Now i hear the upcoming SWTOR MMO will be mostly soloable with few bits and bobs where you get to group and then back to solo grind again... I mean look at EVE or Darkfall... Without grouping you're pretty much dead in the water (or space) in those games. What are your thoughts? Is soloing killing MMO's and what they're about?
Well OBVIOUSLY solo friendliness is NOT killing MMORPGs. In fact, look at how much the market grow after this becomes a standard feature. Most bigger MMOs out there are now all tout the solo-friendly line. It is pretty clear that people want the option to solo.
In fact, WOW is LESS solo friendly than other MMOs like LOTRO. At the max level, you HAVE TO group to get the good stuff (or PvP).
Personally, i won't play any MMO that is not solo friendly. It is simple, grouping (cooperating to kill mobs) is NOT the only thing the community is about. Chatting, auction house, showing off your stuff are all reasons why people want to solo in a MMO. You may not like these reasons, but certainly enough people do.
If you don't see the point in soloing, then just don't solo, period. To everyone who does, there would be varying lists of the reasons they like to do so, but what it comes down to is this; people play solo because that is what they feel like doing at the time. Freedom is a big part of the draw to any mmo, and being Forced to group is not and won't ever be what " it's all about", instead is more then likely one of the biggest factors in keeping people away from these games they would otherwise enjoy.
It's either forced group, or forced solo. Take your pick, but you can't have both.
Umm... no. I want to have my cake and eat it too. Why should I pick only one option when I can have both?
One of the original concerns that came up when MMORPGs first hit it big, was the question of soloability. The big-boys of the time period were UO and EQ. (later on AC) UO was very, very solo friendly, while EQ was not. In fact, some classes in EQ could not effectively solo at all, and you sure couldn't get anything worth a damn for your character without grouping. At the same time, you didn't have to hroup for anything in UO, and you could solo anything you wanted to exploiting your terrain/skills. In fact, grouping could really hurt you. I lost track of how many times I died in UO and a "group member" stole all my stuff.
Most games since then have realized that a good MMORPG needs BOTH elements to be successful. You do not special rewards for grouping, but there needs to be support for the solo player, too. It is not a zero-sum dichotmoy. Enhancing one does not inherently harm the other. For the majority of WOW, at least when it was first released they struck a very good balance between the two. Now at higher leves, the game largely is much more based on group play but they have included enough solo content to keep the solo'rs interested.
I don't understand the "what's the point of soling" logic at all. I also don't understand the whole forced grouping idea. Do you really want to force people to stop playing because they cannot find a group? That's ridiculous and a sure recipe for a soon-to-be dead MMORPG.
And there are a lot of reason's I've solo'd in MMROPGs before:
I wanted to be the first to accomplish something.
! wanted to do something and no one else was available or able to help..
I wanted some item and no one else wanted to help me get it.
I wanted to take a break and cooldown a bit after being grouped with a bunch of morons.
I didn't have much time and didn't want to waste peoples time to form a group just so I'd leave it shortly after.
I was doing something that is inherently "solo only" like trade skills.
I wanted to do something and no one else wanted to do.
I was doing things in real life that took up most of my attention and I'd only be a liability to a group.
I was just goofing off while chatting with people.
The biggest reason for soloing is time constraints. Sometimes you want to play, but you don't have the time to form up a group and go do something substantial. Nobody wants to be "that guy" who joins the group, then bails 15minutes later just as they get fighting.
solo is understandable, you play any rpg you will solo. I think the frustration is when you're levelling up in something like WoW is very few people grouping because it's much easier and painless to solo. While you can level up to the end-game and group to your heart's content it does seem a massive pity that soloing is the CORE activity prior to that.
I play mmo like i am playing Elder Scrolls Oblivion.I enjoy playing by myself but every once in a while i wish i had some help doing some quest,I wish the arena had some real people and i wish i had some people to talk every once in while.I prefer soloing but every once in while when you are tired of interacting with a computer the randomness of a human is fun.To me that whats an mmo should be 60 percent solo and 40 percent group play.
If you don't see the point in soloing, then just don't solo, period. To everyone who does, there would be varying lists of the reasons they like to do so, but what it comes down to is this; people play solo because that is what they feel like doing at the time. Freedom is a big part of the draw to any mmo, and being Forced to group is not and won't ever be what " it's all about", instead is more then likely one of the biggest factors in keeping people away from these games they would otherwise enjoy.
It's either forced group, or forced solo. Take your pick, but you can't have both.
Umm... no. I want to have my cake and eat it too. Why should I pick only one option when I can have both?
Because it's not possible. No one in the history of designing MMO's has ever cracked this nut.
You're just saying make the game I like, screw Ihmotepp and his grouping game I don't care if his groupoing game is wrecked, because I don't like the group focused game like the original DAoC. That's it. You're not getting both, you're just getting your solo friendly game, and ruining my grouping game.
How is that anything but the flip side of saying "I don't want forced grouping?" Then you screw up my grouping game, and I can say "I don't want forced solo gaming".
So pick one, but don't pretend that once you have your solo friendly game you now have a grouping game I will like. You don't. I don't want to be able to solo easily. How do you make the game so you can solo easily, and I can't? It's not possible.
Most games since then have realized that a good MMORPG needs BOTH elements to be successful. You do not special rewards for grouping, but there needs to be support for the solo player, too. It is not a zero-sum dichotmoy. Enhancing one does not inherently harm the other. For the majority of WOW, at least when it was first released they struck a very good balance between the two. Now at higher leves, the game largely is much more based on group play but they have included enough solo content to keep the solo'rs interested.
I don't understand the "what's the point of soling" logic at all.
Well, I'll give it a shot, but I think you probably still won't get it.
I don't want to play an RPG in a living world. I don't want to do quests, or collect gear, or grind, or increase my character stats in a living world. If I want to do those things, I will play a single player game like Fallout 3.
When I play an online game, I am playing for one reason, and one reason only, so I can group with other players. The quests are not fun, the grind is not fun, collecting gear is not fun, leveling is not fun. Being in a group is fun.
So, there does not need to be BOTH elements for the game to be successful for me. There is nothing for me to do if the game doesn't encourage grouping since I have no desire to play it solo. The more "solo friendly" you make the game the worse the grouping game is.
What you are missing is that it's exactly proportional in harming the game according to how much solo activity you add. DAoC, IMO, had it just right in the original game. You could solo, but it was rather excrutiating. That's perfect. The game I like to play, not the game you like to play, is directly harmed when you add solo content. The more I can solo, the less I like the game.
I think the biggest point is that the majority of MMO players usually is greedy and selfish, one part doesnt want to play with this type of players, the other part doesnt want to play with others because they dont want to share anything. You can play with friends, but you've to find times, where you can meet together.
/smacks forehead with hand. It's the NBA and there are 3 hoops, 3 feet, 6 feet, and 10 feet. You really, seriously, honestly, think any team is going to shoot for the 10 foot hoop when they get the same points from the 3 foot hoop? Seriously? You're kidding right?
I usually try not to be negative, but that analogy is retarded. In basketball there is the hoop and the ball. After all the restriction. the player have a choice of getting that ball through the basket anyway they want. It could be from a 3 pointer, jump shot, slam dunk, or what ever. Hell, in a game of basketball, a person don't even have to make a single point, he can just be a good guard, assist, and/or rebounder. Then the team have the option of and aggressive style and go mostly offense, have a tight defense, or what ever balance they want.
The whole point of having solo contention, crafting, gathering, and all the other option including grouping is to give people choices thus attracting a wider audience.
Now let get back to your 3 feet, 6 feet, and 10 feet anology. Let say the 3 feet only worth 1 point, the 6 feet worth 2, and the 10 feet worth 5. Given that option, do you think everybody going to be aiming for the 3 feet one only?
The more solo friendly you make the game, the less I like it. The fact that I CAN group, does not help make the game any more fun for me if II can solo just as easily.
If the analogy doesn't work for you, then perhaps you can come up with a better one to explain the sentence above.
Comments
because trying to find a group in a class based game is never fun, never enough of healers or tanks. ie. in group pvp and pve in guildwars most of your time is literally spent waiting around for the right classes. so soloing PvE with henchmen or random team PvP is far more enjoyable since its 100% gameplay.
grouping in games like darkfall will probably be more fun because its classless. raiding/group pve with no number limits or specific class roles, no more waiting around.
My blog:
Soloing is a necessity for ppl like me that have busy real lives.
I have to log out or go AFK constantly because of the family or phone calls. I don't have HOURS of uninterupted time EVER LOL!
Soloing my way from 1 to max saves my sanity and keeps me happy.
And I play MMO's because I like chatting with my guildies and I love frequent new content. Console games won't give me those things.
The technical answer is that grouping takes time and effort something people generally don't want to invest in during their play time. So we have soloable worlds with group instances. I have no issue with that.
The bigger answer is there are no MMO ish single players RPGs available. If I could find a game like LotRO or CoX offline I might not play so many MMOs.
Then there's like the OP said not a whole lots of easy ways to get groups started. Outside of CoX and to some extent WAR I've not seen any real tools for getting people grouped that are used. Helps that CoX scales to team size so teams equal more fun through chaos and more xp so win win.
I'm all up for grouping, after all we're talking mmo's right? But one dungeon or another along the way would be a great thing me thinks!!! A really great thing!
In the market square: -Oh man, you downed that awful dragon? -Yes I did:)
There's a difference between a good grouping game, and a crappy Asian grinder that's a grouping game. EQ, DAoC, good grouping games. FFXI, crappy Asian grinder grouping game.
Here you have FFXI a very group focus MMO with great pve and you complain it being a grinding game.
"I want a hard grouping mmo that is easy to reach max level!" LOL
I'm not a FFXI fanboi, but calling FFXI a crappy mmo? The world is huge. Great pve and crafting. Good artwork and gameplay. Its definitely a worthy mmo to play.
stop yr hardcore acting.
I soIo a lot so I can progress at my own pace.
Because of my timezone, I play off peak when it is hard to find a group of adventurers who are up to the same content as me.
Solo content just gives players more choice and is making MMO's more popular.
There's a difference between a good grouping game, and a crappy Asian grinder that's a grouping game. EQ, DAoC, good grouping games. FFXI, crappy Asian grinder grouping game.
Here you have FFXI a very group focus MMO with great pve and you complain it being a grinding game.
"I want a hard grouping mmo that is easy to reach max level!" LOL
I'm not a FFXI fanboi, but calling FFXI a crappy mmo? The world is huge. Great pve and crafting. Good artwork and gameplay. Its definitely a worthy mmo to play.
stop yr hardcore acting.
Ihmo is ok.. he just gets over active with the pvp in his blood.^^
Most people who haven't passed the halfway mark in FFXI generally have this view. It is by far the most group reliant game on the MMO scene today. Not playing well with others in the six man group will get you blacklisted on any server, forcing you to be a hermit and wander Jeuno with a LFG sign above your head forever. (or being a Dragoon back in the day^^)
There is a difference between, say, Silkroad Online, Perfect World, 2moons, or Rappelz and Final Fantasy XI. Anyone who has played them all knows the difference.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Ever seen - The Outlaw Josey Wales? That's why.
i would solo in eq on ralloz all the time the rush of not knowing if you were going to get jumped when you are fighing a mob was the best, i solo cause i can if i want to play singler player games i do, wow i can chose to do what ever i want !! that is crazy....
I find grouping with friends fun and rewarding no matter what we do together. But then again I don't view MMOs as a competition or sport. It isn't like saying lower the hoop to 3 feet. It's like saying you need 3 hoops, one 3 feet, one 6 feet, and one 10 feet! If you want to use an analogy how about card games? Some you can play solo, others with a friend. Still others are more fun with a group. Some people just like solitaire.
I want variety in my MMOs. I want group, duo, and solo content. I want combat and non-combat play options. I don't want to be stuck doing the same type of thing all the time. The games that give me options will be more likely to get my money. Lots of people seem to feel the same way. I don't see many MMOs with only grouping, and I don't see many with nothing but solo content either.
/smacks forehead with hand.
It's the NBA and there are 3 hoops, 3 feet, 6 feet, and 10 feet.
You really, seriously, honestly, think any team is going to shoot for the 10 foot hoop when they get the same points from the 3 foot hoop?
Seriously? You're kidding right?
If you don't see the point in soloing, then just don't solo, period. To everyone who does, there would be varying lists of the reasons they like to do so, but what it comes down to is this; people play solo because that is what they feel like doing at the time. Freedom is a big part of the draw to any mmo, and being Forced to group is not and won't ever be what " it's all about", instead is more then likely one of the biggest factors in keeping people away from these games they would otherwise enjoy.
It's either forced group, or forced solo. Take your pick, but you can't have both.
Playing a Tank as I do wherever possible, I have to say that a good night of grouping is the best thing this genre has to offer.
If I'm taking aggro and the healer is curing me, the DeBuffers and Dmg Dealers are free to do their thing, that's the game. And we're winning it. That's how FFXI is for me.
There are times, however, when I want to log in and farm that last couple for a level or get some crafting materials. I like having that option as well.
It's a tightrope for devs to walk, to have soloable content but make it more worthwhile to group. Unfortunately solo is the easy way for people to go without the worry of being "That Guy Who Got Us Wiped" in todays no consequence MMORPGs.
(And I say this in terms of the majority of class-based games we see today. Games like EVE are another story.)
I usually try not to be negative, but that analogy is retarded. In basketball there is the hoop and the ball. After all the restriction. the player have a choice of getting that ball through the basket anyway they want. It could be from a 3 pointer, jump shot, slam dunk, or what ever. Hell, in a game of basketball, a person don't even have to make a single point, he can just be a good guard, assist, and/or rebounder. Then the team have the option of and aggressive style and go mostly offense, have a tight defense, or what ever balance they want.
The whole point of having solo contention, crafting, gathering, and all the other option including grouping is to give people choices thus attracting a wider audience.
Now let get back to your 3 feet, 6 feet, and 10 feet anology. Let say the 3 feet only worth 1 point, the 6 feet worth 2, and the 10 feet worth 5. Given that option, do you think everybody going to be aiming for the 3 feet one only?
Well OBVIOUSLY solo friendliness is NOT killing MMORPGs. In fact, look at how much the market grow after this becomes a standard feature. Most bigger MMOs out there are now all tout the solo-friendly line. It is pretty clear that people want the option to solo.
In fact, WOW is LESS solo friendly than other MMOs like LOTRO. At the max level, you HAVE TO group to get the good stuff (or PvP).
Personally, i won't play any MMO that is not solo friendly. It is simple, grouping (cooperating to kill mobs) is NOT the only thing the community is about. Chatting, auction house, showing off your stuff are all reasons why people want to solo in a MMO. You may not like these reasons, but certainly enough people do.
It's either forced group, or forced solo. Take your pick, but you can't have both.
Umm... no. I want to have my cake and eat it too. Why should I pick only one option when I can have both?
Not sure what you mean........but that movie rocks....one of Eastwood's best.
One of the original concerns that came up when MMORPGs first hit it big, was the question of soloability. The big-boys of the time period were UO and EQ. (later on AC) UO was very, very solo friendly, while EQ was not. In fact, some classes in EQ could not effectively solo at all, and you sure couldn't get anything worth a damn for your character without grouping. At the same time, you didn't have to hroup for anything in UO, and you could solo anything you wanted to exploiting your terrain/skills. In fact, grouping could really hurt you. I lost track of how many times I died in UO and a "group member" stole all my stuff.
Most games since then have realized that a good MMORPG needs BOTH elements to be successful. You do not special rewards for grouping, but there needs to be support for the solo player, too. It is not a zero-sum dichotmoy. Enhancing one does not inherently harm the other. For the majority of WOW, at least when it was first released they struck a very good balance between the two. Now at higher leves, the game largely is much more based on group play but they have included enough solo content to keep the solo'rs interested.
I don't understand the "what's the point of soling" logic at all. I also don't understand the whole forced grouping idea. Do you really want to force people to stop playing because they cannot find a group? That's ridiculous and a sure recipe for a soon-to-be dead MMORPG.
And there are a lot of reason's I've solo'd in MMROPGs before:
I wanted to be the first to accomplish something.
! wanted to do something and no one else was available or able to help..
I wanted some item and no one else wanted to help me get it.
I wanted to take a break and cooldown a bit after being grouped with a bunch of morons.
I didn't have much time and didn't want to waste peoples time to form a group just so I'd leave it shortly after.
I was doing something that is inherently "solo only" like trade skills.
I wanted to do something and no one else wanted to do.
I was doing things in real life that took up most of my attention and I'd only be a liability to a group.
I was just goofing off while chatting with people.
Ad infinitum....
The biggest reason for soloing is time constraints. Sometimes you want to play, but you don't have the time to form up a group and go do something substantial. Nobody wants to be "that guy" who joins the group, then bails 15minutes later just as they get fighting.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
solo is understandable, you play any rpg you will solo. I think the frustration is when you're levelling up in something like WoW is very few people grouping because it's much easier and painless to solo. While you can level up to the end-game and group to your heart's content it does seem a massive pity that soloing is the CORE activity prior to that.
I play mmo like i am playing Elder Scrolls Oblivion.I enjoy playing by myself but every once in a while i wish i had some help doing some quest,I wish the arena had some real people and i wish i had some people to talk every once in while.I prefer soloing but every once in while when you are tired of interacting with a computer the randomness of a human is fun.To me that whats an mmo should be 60 percent solo and 40 percent group play.
It's either forced group, or forced solo. Take your pick, but you can't have both.
Umm... no. I want to have my cake and eat it too. Why should I pick only one option when I can have both?
Because it's not possible. No one in the history of designing MMO's has ever cracked this nut.
You're just saying make the game I like, screw Ihmotepp and his grouping game I don't care if his groupoing game is wrecked, because I don't like the group focused game like the original DAoC. That's it. You're not getting both, you're just getting your solo friendly game, and ruining my grouping game.
How is that anything but the flip side of saying "I don't want forced grouping?" Then you screw up my grouping game, and I can say "I don't want forced solo gaming".
So pick one, but don't pretend that once you have your solo friendly game you now have a grouping game I will like. You don't. I don't want to be able to solo easily. How do you make the game so you can solo easily, and I can't? It's not possible.
Well, I'll give it a shot, but I think you probably still won't get it.
I don't want to play an RPG in a living world. I don't want to do quests, or collect gear, or grind, or increase my character stats in a living world. If I want to do those things, I will play a single player game like Fallout 3.
When I play an online game, I am playing for one reason, and one reason only, so I can group with other players. The quests are not fun, the grind is not fun, collecting gear is not fun, leveling is not fun. Being in a group is fun.
So, there does not need to be BOTH elements for the game to be successful for me. There is nothing for me to do if the game doesn't encourage grouping since I have no desire to play it solo. The more "solo friendly" you make the game the worse the grouping game is.
What you are missing is that it's exactly proportional in harming the game according to how much solo activity you add. DAoC, IMO, had it just right in the original game. You could solo, but it was rather excrutiating. That's perfect. The game I like to play, not the game you like to play, is directly harmed when you add solo content. The more I can solo, the less I like the game.
MAke sense now?
I think the biggest point is that the majority of MMO players usually is greedy and selfish, one part doesnt want to play with this type of players, the other part doesnt want to play with others because they dont want to share anything. You can play with friends, but you've to find times, where you can meet together.
I usually try not to be negative, but that analogy is retarded. In basketball there is the hoop and the ball. After all the restriction. the player have a choice of getting that ball through the basket anyway they want. It could be from a 3 pointer, jump shot, slam dunk, or what ever. Hell, in a game of basketball, a person don't even have to make a single point, he can just be a good guard, assist, and/or rebounder. Then the team have the option of and aggressive style and go mostly offense, have a tight defense, or what ever balance they want.
The whole point of having solo contention, crafting, gathering, and all the other option including grouping is to give people choices thus attracting a wider audience.
Now let get back to your 3 feet, 6 feet, and 10 feet anology. Let say the 3 feet only worth 1 point, the 6 feet worth 2, and the 10 feet worth 5. Given that option, do you think everybody going to be aiming for the 3 feet one only?
The more solo friendly you make the game, the less I like it. The fact that I CAN group, does not help make the game any more fun for me if II can solo just as easily.
If the analogy doesn't work for you, then perhaps you can come up with a better one to explain the sentence above.