I quit WoW a few months ago after realizing that solo players would always be held back by a glass ceiling. I miss it, but until I get verification via 3rd party websites of equal access to equipment/content, I will leave the genre to those who enjoy being a willing participant in Uncle Toms cabin.
At the moment, only SWTOR holds out the slightest hope of some kind of equality, but I won't be there at launch. Once bitten, twice shy.....until I verify.
You could not be more wrong. I prefer games that let me solo. I don't care if its slower. Between work and the kids I can't devote hours of my time each day to looking for a group. The epeen people Imho are the hardcore raiders. I don't mind grouping or even pugging on days I have time. Does not matter to me if I can do the quest solo sometimes it is nice just to group up and tear through a place in a group but why should people be penalized for not wanting to do that everytime time.
Solo helps E-Peens get a boost to there Ego's In this endless jungle of people lots of young humans justify there pathetic little existence by brain washing themself to belive they are so absolutly amazing human beings. Its common. The needs to feel special, superior, and amazing to offset the fact that they are actually absolutly useless. A bit like the Movie Fight Club. Withought this human meckanism, suicide would be at a much higher rate.
Or soloing is about being able to play the game when I want at my own pace rather then having to wait for a group to do anything. My first MMO was FFXI when it came out so I know about forced group situations. Unless you played desired class x or y you spent 3 hours or more of your time standing around shouting for a party. If you try to build one then you find yourself looking for the covetted X or Y, and after about 30 minutes you find them and then you kill one mob and everyone has to go. When the heck to playing a game to have fun have to be about playing someone elses way under penalty of being labled as having some kind of ego.
I like being able to solo because when I am just a few mobs away from level and I don't have an hour plus in time to spare I can get my level and then go on and live my life. Honestly, a lot of the people that try to lable people who enjoy solo play seem to be the one with the social issues.
Really all that is needed here is equal treatment for groups and solo types. Admittedly, I solo a lot, but then, it is because group mechanics are clunky in a lot of games, and lets face it, if you and a group of real life friends dont play together, you are forced to play with asshats, and that ruins any game experience.
But the other point here is that game companies ultimately decide who to cater to, though it is profitable to cater to both.
My blog is a continuing story of what MMO's should be like.
I dont know if anyone has mentioned this but I think I am going to. If you have played FFXI, you know the need to want to solo in an MMO. I played that game far too long and I have spend countless hours just waiting to pick up a group. I do admit that I have never had as much fun as I have had in FFXI, but at the same point in time, if there was the ability to solo that game, I would still be there to this day playing it.
Then there is Tabula Rasa... RIP... That game should have been a single player game. There was no point in even grouping at all except to PvP. IDK, just IMO I guess.
Solo play I feel is mandatory as equally is grouping in a MMO.
I have said this before, but the only key difference in them should be the time it takes to get what you want. A group should be faster because its a group of people. Example in real life is it takes allot less time to build a house with 10 people than building a house by your self.
Now along with that example it does not mean it is impossible to build said house by your self. It just means it will take more time.
Now with that that leads me into that soloers should be able to get the best w/ever just as group/raiders can. Just at a slower pace.
Nothing should be undoable by soloers to an extent. The exclusion being raids and big boss'. But that does not mean a soloer should be restricted to lower end gear/items/gameplay. Just they can not get it as fast as those raiders.
Good point there. I think its good to say that we all deserve a chance to get what we want. Im not much for solo or groups. I like to mix it up. There are certain things about a quest that make soling it kinda nice. You can enjoy a nice run through a new place you have never been, without having other people trying to rush you. In a group, more often then not, you are forced to skip past all of the text that leads into the story because other people are just trying to get some XP.
I feel that far too many people have forgotten what it was to play these games. It wasnt just to get the best armor and highest lvl the fastest. It was to play a game, enjoy it, and watch a story unfold in front of you.
Think back to the days of Final Fantasy, or Chrono Trigger. Did we all just rush those games because we wanted to get to the end? Well some did, but for the most part we enjoyed the story more then anything else. Atleast I did, but I might just be one of few gamers out there in need of another great story.
So the OP has trouble frinding a group (or maybe complains that groups dont find him). In every MMO that I play I find groups and players who want to group. There is no need to ask for forced grouping in any games.
When I see someone ingame complaining about lack of grouping, they are usually guildless and/or new to the game. Itll take time to get to know ppl ingame for you to group with regurarly. However if you are someone that throws blind invites around, or someone who expects players to give excuses as why they dont want to join, then you will have a tough time.
Good LFG tools can really help a lot if you are interested in PUG's only.
So the OP has trouble frinding a group (or maybe complains that groups dont find him). In every MMO that I play I find groups and players who want to group. There is no need to ask for forced grouping in any games. When I see someone ingame complaining about lack of grouping, they are usually guildless and/or new to the game. Itll take time to get to know ppl ingame for you to group with regurarly. However if you are someone that throws blind invites around, or someone who expects players to give excuses as why they dont want to join, then you will have a tough time. Good LFG tools can really help a lot if you are interested in PUG's only.
Try playing a Dark Knight in FFXI... It wasnt that great. But all that aside, you are right. Most of the people that didnt find the groups were the people that didnt look or didnt know anyone. First order of business when I get into a new game is always to find a decent clan/guild to join that is willing to help people and show them the ropes.
What is it with devs nowadays? MMO is for grouping and having fun together and i haven't seen a game apart from LOTRO that actually rewards grouping... Few months back i got around to play WoW trial to finally see what's the big fuss about it. I was pleased by the smoothness of graphics, cartoony looks, great UI, quests, etc. but the thing that surprised me the most was that although others players were running around not one would group with me... Then my mate told me that WoW doesn't really reward grouping as it's splits rewardsand xp between the members of the group. Then i tried EQ2 and guess what? Pretty much the same situation... Vanguard wasn't better either. Not to mention Tabula Rasa where you were able to solo entire game (even instances).
All i hear on forums is solo this, solo that. Frack that. Even in WAR PvE questing is a solo affair, although fair enough for everything else grouping is essential and with the best LFG system to date. Now i hear the upcoming SWTOR MMO will be mostly soloable with few bits and bobs where you get to group and then back to solo grind again... I mean look at EVE or Darkfall... Without grouping you're pretty much dead in the water (or space) in those games. What are your thoughts? Is soloing killing MMO's and what they're about?
3 things kill community:
Lack of a reason to group
Lack of down time
Lack of depth
War had no reason to group, had no down time while people talked to each other, and had very little depth outside of combat. As a result War developed no community. I won't stay with a game that has no community and left.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
OmaliMMO Business CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,177
I solo on Runescape most of the time because finding a group is a huge pain in the ass for any game, really.
In War, I solo unless I'm doing public quests or public RvR (just because it's not possible otherwise)
I don't think MMO's were meant for grouping all the time, I was under the impression that an MMO meant a persistent world where players interact.
Example in real life is it takes allot less time to build a house with 10 people than building a house by your self.
To apply that analogy to gaming - only one person gets to own the house!
So what if I kill things four times faster if I group with three other players? I then have to split the XP and rewards four ways and only get a 1 in 4 chance of getting that nice item that just dropped.
OmaliMMO Business CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,177
Originally posted by Dibdabs
Originally posted by onlinenow225
Example in real life is it takes allot less time to build a house with 10 people than building a house by your self.
To apply that analogy to gaming - only one person gets to own the house!
So what if I kill things four times faster if I group with three other players? I then have to split the XP and rewards four ways and only get a 1 in 4 chance of getting that nice item that just dropped.
To apply that real life analogy to gaming, it takes a long damn time to get people willing to help you build a house, even if you're paying. To expand upon that, some people take pride in doing such a task themselves and are looked upon higher than those who did it with a group.
I like soloing in MMO's. Why? Simple. It's an RPG that has no end. Granted, most of them lack any substance to their story, but that seems to be changing. I could go play Mass Effect, or Fable 2, or Final Fantasy (insert number here), but those games end. They will get nothing new (or at least nothing new after some months when everyone has forgotten about them), they will not change, they will not evolve. All those little bugs and things I wish that would get upgraded never will. I won't ever find a better weapon. I will never see what happens next. I will wait years for what MIGHT be a sequel. MMO's? An expansion every year or two, constant updates, and an ever changing world. The only problem? Other people. "Where can I get x weapon?" "GO LEWK IT UP FAGOT" I've had enough of that. That's a part of why I quit WoW. WoW has the WORST community of any MMO ever made, hands down. I'm sure a big part of it is because it also has the largest community of any MMO, and therefore statistically idiots are bound to be more plentiful. Either way, I would like it if they weren't there. EVER.
OmaliMMO Business CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,177
Originally posted by Acreal
I like soloing in MMO's. Why? Simple. It's an RPG that has no end. Granted, most of them lack any substance to their story, but that seems to be changing. I could go play Mass Effect, or Fable 2, or Final Fantasy (insert number here), but those games end. They will get nothing new (or at least nothing new after some months when everyone has forgotten about them), they will not change, they will not evolve. All those little bugs and things I wish that would get upgraded never will. I won't ever find a better weapon. I will never see what happens next. I will wait years for what MIGHT be a sequel. MMO's? An expansion every year or two, constant updates, and an ever changing world. The only problem? Other people. "Where can I get x weapon?" "GO LEWK IT UP FAGOT" I've had enough of that. That's a part of why I quit WoW. WoW has the WORST community of any MMO ever made, hands down. I'm sure a big part of it is because it also has the largest community of any MMO, and therefore statistically idiots are bound to be more plentiful. Either way, I would like it if they weren't there. EVER.
I play Runescape for the depth of story in the quests, minigames, etc. An update with new content every week or two.
I've always said MMOs would be the best games to play if it weren't for the stupidity of the community. Every game with a community has 99% of the vocal minority are the idiots and whiners, and the majority remain silent and happy with the game.
If you need the game to force you to group, then you're actually not that much of a group oriented or social player. Personally, I'll take less rewards in order to play with my friends, since I can play single player games anytime I want alone. If the opportunity to play with them is there, I'll take it anytime. I stress FRIENDS, not random PUG stramgers;) If its a fun PUG, then I gain more friends, so it works out. But for the most part I simply don't like wasting my time too much, since its limited. I'm not in highschool or college anymore=) I'd rather be unproductive alone then be frustrated with a bunch of people I don't know;)
I do hear some people saying they'll solo if the rewards are better or easier no matter what and to me thats your problem. Its not the game. BETTER MMOs give you the option to do both. When I say option I mean, hand crafted solo content. Not just the ability to play alone. For example....I wouldn't call EQ or DAOC fun to solo in. You could do it, but it wasn't fun at all.
What is it with devs nowadays? MMO is for grouping and having fun together and i haven't seen a game apart from LOTRO that actually rewards grouping... Few months back i got around to play WoW trial to finally see what's the big fuss about it. I was pleased by the smoothness of graphics, cartoony looks, great UI, quests, etc. but the thing that surprised me the most was that although others players were running around not one would group with me... Then my mate told me that WoW doesn't really reward grouping as it's splits rewardsand xp between the members of the group. Then i tried EQ2 and guess what? Pretty much the same situation... Vanguard wasn't better either. Not to mention Tabula Rasa where you were able to solo entire game (even instances).
All i hear on forums is solo this, solo that. Frack that. Even in WAR PvE questing is a solo affair, although fair enough for everything else grouping is essential and with the best LFG system to date. Now i hear the upcoming SWTOR MMO will be mostly soloable with few bits and bobs where you get to group and then back to solo grind again... I mean look at EVE or Darkfall... Without grouping you're pretty much dead in the water (or space) in those games. What are your thoughts? Is soloing killing MMO's and what they're about?
Sorry but the best LFG panel has to go to DDO online
This topic crops up every couple of months or so and it's amazing that some people just haven't managed to grasp the simplicity of the answer to the OP's question.
We solo.. because it's fun.
That's it. There's no complexity to the answer at all; it's just fun. We, the majority, enjoy it more than forced grouping.
It's why DDO nearly failed at launch, and it's why games like WoW who understand their target consumer continue to flourish.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Well, I'll give it a shot, but I think you probably still won't get it.
I don't want to play an RPG in a living world. I don't want to do quests, or collect gear, or grind, or increase my character stats in a living world. If I want to do those things, I will play a single player game like Fallout 3.
When I play an online game, I am playing for one reason, and one reason only, so I can group with other players. The quests are not fun, the grind is not fun, collecting gear is not fun, leveling is not fun. Being in a group is fun.
So, there does not need to be BOTH elements for the game to be successful for me. There is nothing for me to do if the game doesn't encourage grouping since I have no desire to play it solo. The more "solo friendly" you make the game the worse the grouping game is.
What you are missing is that it's exactly proportional in harming the game according to how much solo activity you add. DAoC, IMO, had it just right in the original game. You could solo, but it was rather excrutiating. That's perfect. The game I like to play, not the game you like to play, is directly harmed when you add solo content. The more I can solo, the less I like the game.
MAke sense now?
What you don't get is that not everyone, and in fact, most other people, do NOT have the same "wants" as you. People do NOT play online games for the sole reason of grouping (chatting, auction house, pvp, showing off gear ...) and there is no reason why your reason is more legitimate than theirs.
I'm going to respond without having slogged through all 10 pages so forgive me if I repeat something said.
I am sick to death of the argument that if you like to solo don't play an MMO. There are many reasons why I play an MMO. And the biggest one is content. An MMO is a constantly evolving world, unlike a static single player game. Theoretically it has no end, unlike a single player game. You have crafting, an auction house, the possibilty of newly introduced items, all of which do not exist in a single player game. Sick, sick, sick of people saying MMO's are only for grouping. I like the live, immediate, growing world of an MMO as opposed to the static, finished feel of a single player game. Been dying to rant about this for awhile, thanks for the opportunity...heh
I like MMOs because I can't beat them in less than a month of casual play, unlike every other single player I've ever played. Somedays I like to group and other days I don't feel like dealing with people. Many days I'll only have an hour or two and don't feel like spending half of it LFG to be able to progress. More and more MMO players are casual gamers that can't or won't devote 40 hours a week to play a game and devs know this and don't want to ignore that market.
Nothing is preventing you from grouping to do solo quests. I do it all the time. The reverse of doing group quests solo is rarely true unless you are far above the intended level. MMO <> grouping. You can have plenty of interaction with others without grouping. I'm not forcing you to solo, don't force me to group, OK?
CoX is an excellent solo/group hybrid. It is possible to solo all the way through (some classes are easier than others), but it's also possible to group all the way through. The individual missions/dungeons scale to team size, and all reqards are shared equally. There are some rewards that do require grouping to obtain, but if you don't have them, it won't interfere with the "playability" of the game.
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Well, I'll give it a shot, but I think you probably still won't get it.
I don't want to play an RPG in a living world. I don't want to do quests, or collect gear, or grind, or increase my character stats in a living world. If I want to do those things, I will play a single player game like Fallout 3.
When I play an online game, I am playing for one reason, and one reason only, so I can group with other players. The quests are not fun, the grind is not fun, collecting gear is not fun, leveling is not fun. Being in a group is fun.
So, there does not need to be BOTH elements for the game to be successful for me. There is nothing for me to do if the game doesn't encourage grouping since I have no desire to play it solo. The more "solo friendly" you make the game the worse the grouping game is.
What you are missing is that it's exactly proportional in harming the game according to how much solo activity you add. DAoC, IMO, had it just right in the original game. You could solo, but it was rather excrutiating. That's perfect. The game I like to play, not the game you like to play, is directly harmed when you add solo content. The more I can solo, the less I like the game.
MAke sense now?
What you don't get is that not everyone, and in fact, most other people, do NOT have the same "wants" as you. People do NOT play online games for the sole reason of grouping (chatting, auction house, pvp, showing off gear ...) and there is no reason why your reason is more legitimate than theirs.
Okay, so you don't like the basketball metaphor - how about success irl? People define financial IRL Success differently. For some, it's making millions of dollars as a CEO of a major corporation. Others relish the challenge of owning their own business. Still others prefer not to be tied down to desk and choose careers that offer more individual freedom. None is any better or worse than the others--they're just different ways to reach that individual person's own desired level of success.
Why can't an MMO be the same? For me, the ultimate point of playing a game (MMORPG or otherwise) is to have fun. I've had times where soloing was stressful or boring. I've been on 'perfect' pugs and pugs that were so horrible I didn't care about being "that guy" - the one who bails before the first mission is finished. CoX gives me all those options.
------------- The less you expect, the more you'll be surprised. Hopefully, pleasantly so.
Problem with level based mmorpgs is they become top heavy and then impossible to find groups as a new player so you have to solo. So while I want to group the flawed design of the level based mmorpgs forces me solo. In SWG however I nevr solo'd anything and always grouped and it was so easy to find a good guild in that game.
This is a pretty good point and most MMOs that have been out for a while fight to battle this problem. It extends to a lot of content that ends up just not being used. The new expansion comes out and everyone is there and the great content prior goes largely unused.
I like that WoW addresses this issue by making the previous content more solo friendly. That being said, I think EQ2's mentoring system is the best. Of all the MMOs I have played (and that is a lot) I think EQ2 has the most groups available at lower levels. It isn't perfect but the mentoring system plus alt-itus seems to make a lot of folks available at lower levels. I am speaking more os unused content and finding groups at lower levels though.
As far as soloing versus grouping...I think any MMO would be severely gimped if it didn't have both. To say it can't just doesn't make sense to me. What MMO doesn't have both to some degree? There is a constant push and pull battle in the risk versus reward for solo and group play, but I can't imagine having both. In my head, it seems that you should be able to get better gear in groups and raids than solo but I know a lot of people don't think that way.
I also agree with the downtime comment. I don't get to know people like I used to in EQ1. A lot of the time you are lucky if the group lasts for more than 20 minutes to finish a quest. What is the fun in that? I liked forging friendships that meant something in-game even at lower levels. I think a "problem" with EQ2 and WoW both is that the game is all about solo - leveling until max level then the tone and feel switches to mostly group and raid. Why not both all the way through?
Really all that is needed here is equal treatment for groups and solo types. Admittedly, I solo a lot, but then, it is because group mechanics are clunky in a lot of games, and lets face it, if you and a group of real life friends dont play together, you are forced to play with asshats, and that ruins any game experience. But the other point here is that game companies ultimately decide who to cater to, though it is profitable to cater to both.
I actually find that entertaining. I'm playng an online MMORPG because of the unexpected experiences I will have grouping with other players. Not to get loot, not to be l33t, not for the quests and stale story lines that dont' change the game world, not for going "ding" when I get a level, or a new skill level.
So a bunch of asshats getting the group wiped is perfectly fine, because I'm entertained, and that's all I"m looking for from the game.
Comments
I quit WoW a few months ago after realizing that solo players would always be held back by a glass ceiling. I miss it, but until I get verification via 3rd party websites of equal access to equipment/content, I will leave the genre to those who enjoy being a willing participant in Uncle Toms cabin.
At the moment, only SWTOR holds out the slightest hope of some kind of equality, but I won't be there at launch. Once bitten, twice shy.....until I verify.
You could not be more wrong. I prefer games that let me solo. I don't care if its slower. Between work and the kids I can't devote hours of my time each day to looking for a group. The epeen people Imho are the hardcore raiders. I don't mind grouping or even pugging on days I have time. Does not matter to me if I can do the quest solo sometimes it is nice just to group up and tear through a place in a group but why should people be penalized for not wanting to do that everytime time.
Or soloing is about being able to play the game when I want at my own pace rather then having to wait for a group to do anything. My first MMO was FFXI when it came out so I know about forced group situations. Unless you played desired class x or y you spent 3 hours or more of your time standing around shouting for a party. If you try to build one then you find yourself looking for the covetted X or Y, and after about 30 minutes you find them and then you kill one mob and everyone has to go. When the heck to playing a game to have fun have to be about playing someone elses way under penalty of being labled as having some kind of ego.
I like being able to solo because when I am just a few mobs away from level and I don't have an hour plus in time to spare I can get my level and then go on and live my life. Honestly, a lot of the people that try to lable people who enjoy solo play seem to be the one with the social issues.
Ya I think of the big young population thats anti scotial not guys like you m8
Really all that is needed here is equal treatment for groups and solo types. Admittedly, I solo a lot, but then, it is because group mechanics are clunky in a lot of games, and lets face it, if you and a group of real life friends dont play together, you are forced to play with asshats, and that ruins any game experience.
But the other point here is that game companies ultimately decide who to cater to, though it is profitable to cater to both.
My blog is a continuing story of what MMO's should be like.
I dont know if anyone has mentioned this but I think I am going to. If you have played FFXI, you know the need to want to solo in an MMO. I played that game far too long and I have spend countless hours just waiting to pick up a group. I do admit that I have never had as much fun as I have had in FFXI, but at the same point in time, if there was the ability to solo that game, I would still be there to this day playing it.
Then there is Tabula Rasa... RIP... That game should have been a single player game. There was no point in even grouping at all except to PvP. IDK, just IMO I guess.
Solo play I feel is mandatory as equally is grouping in a MMO.
I have said this before, but the only key difference in them should be the time it takes to get what you want. A group should be faster because its a group of people. Example in real life is it takes allot less time to build a house with 10 people than building a house by your self.
Now along with that example it does not mean it is impossible to build said house by your self. It just means it will take more time.
Now with that that leads me into that soloers should be able to get the best w/ever just as group/raiders can. Just at a slower pace.
Nothing should be undoable by soloers to an extent. The exclusion being raids and big boss'. But that does not mean a soloer should be restricted to lower end gear/items/gameplay. Just they can not get it as fast as those raiders.
Good point there. I think its good to say that we all deserve a chance to get what we want. Im not much for solo or groups. I like to mix it up. There are certain things about a quest that make soling it kinda nice. You can enjoy a nice run through a new place you have never been, without having other people trying to rush you. In a group, more often then not, you are forced to skip past all of the text that leads into the story because other people are just trying to get some XP.
I feel that far too many people have forgotten what it was to play these games. It wasnt just to get the best armor and highest lvl the fastest. It was to play a game, enjoy it, and watch a story unfold in front of you.
Think back to the days of Final Fantasy, or Chrono Trigger. Did we all just rush those games because we wanted to get to the end? Well some did, but for the most part we enjoyed the story more then anything else. Atleast I did, but I might just be one of few gamers out there in need of another great story.
So the OP has trouble frinding a group (or maybe complains that groups dont find him). In every MMO that I play I find groups and players who want to group. There is no need to ask for forced grouping in any games.
When I see someone ingame complaining about lack of grouping, they are usually guildless and/or new to the game. Itll take time to get to know ppl ingame for you to group with regurarly. However if you are someone that throws blind invites around, or someone who expects players to give excuses as why they dont want to join, then you will have a tough time.
Good LFG tools can really help a lot if you are interested in PUG's only.
Try playing a Dark Knight in FFXI... It wasnt that great. But all that aside, you are right. Most of the people that didnt find the groups were the people that didnt look or didnt know anyone. First order of business when I get into a new game is always to find a decent clan/guild to join that is willing to help people and show them the ropes.
3 things kill community:
War had no reason to group, had no down time while people talked to each other, and had very little depth outside of combat. As a result War developed no community. I won't stay with a game that has no community and left.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
I solo on Runescape most of the time because finding a group is a huge pain in the ass for any game, really.
In War, I solo unless I'm doing public quests or public RvR (just because it's not possible otherwise)
I don't think MMO's were meant for grouping all the time, I was under the impression that an MMO meant a persistent world where players interact.
To apply that analogy to gaming - only one person gets to own the house!
So what if I kill things four times faster if I group with three other players? I then have to split the XP and rewards four ways and only get a 1 in 4 chance of getting that nice item that just dropped.
To apply that analogy to gaming - only one person gets to own the house!
So what if I kill things four times faster if I group with three other players? I then have to split the XP and rewards four ways and only get a 1 in 4 chance of getting that nice item that just dropped.
To apply that real life analogy to gaming, it takes a long damn time to get people willing to help you build a house, even if you're paying. To expand upon that, some people take pride in doing such a task themselves and are looked upon higher than those who did it with a group.
I like soloing in MMO's. Why? Simple. It's an RPG that has no end. Granted, most of them lack any substance to their story, but that seems to be changing. I could go play Mass Effect, or Fable 2, or Final Fantasy (insert number here), but those games end. They will get nothing new (or at least nothing new after some months when everyone has forgotten about them), they will not change, they will not evolve. All those little bugs and things I wish that would get upgraded never will. I won't ever find a better weapon. I will never see what happens next. I will wait years for what MIGHT be a sequel. MMO's? An expansion every year or two, constant updates, and an ever changing world. The only problem? Other people. "Where can I get x weapon?" "GO LEWK IT UP FAGOT" I've had enough of that. That's a part of why I quit WoW. WoW has the WORST community of any MMO ever made, hands down. I'm sure a big part of it is because it also has the largest community of any MMO, and therefore statistically idiots are bound to be more plentiful. Either way, I would like it if they weren't there. EVER.
I play Runescape for the depth of story in the quests, minigames, etc. An update with new content every week or two.
I've always said MMOs would be the best games to play if it weren't for the stupidity of the community. Every game with a community has 99% of the vocal minority are the idiots and whiners, and the majority remain silent and happy with the game.
If you need the game to force you to group, then you're actually not that much of a group oriented or social player. Personally, I'll take less rewards in order to play with my friends, since I can play single player games anytime I want alone. If the opportunity to play with them is there, I'll take it anytime. I stress FRIENDS, not random PUG stramgers;) If its a fun PUG, then I gain more friends, so it works out. But for the most part I simply don't like wasting my time too much, since its limited. I'm not in highschool or college anymore=) I'd rather be unproductive alone then be frustrated with a bunch of people I don't know;)
I do hear some people saying they'll solo if the rewards are better or easier no matter what and to me thats your problem. Its not the game. BETTER MMOs give you the option to do both. When I say option I mean, hand crafted solo content. Not just the ability to play alone. For example....I wouldn't call EQ or DAOC fun to solo in. You could do it, but it wasn't fun at all.
Sorry but the best LFG panel has to go to DDO online
This topic crops up every couple of months or so and it's amazing that some people just haven't managed to grasp the simplicity of the answer to the OP's question.
We solo.. because it's fun.
That's it. There's no complexity to the answer at all; it's just fun. We, the majority, enjoy it more than forced grouping.
It's why DDO nearly failed at launch, and it's why games like WoW who understand their target consumer continue to flourish.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I don't want to play an RPG in a living world. I don't want to do quests, or collect gear, or grind, or increase my character stats in a living world. If I want to do those things, I will play a single player game like Fallout 3.
When I play an online game, I am playing for one reason, and one reason only, so I can group with other players. The quests are not fun, the grind is not fun, collecting gear is not fun, leveling is not fun. Being in a group is fun.
So, there does not need to be BOTH elements for the game to be successful for me. There is nothing for me to do if the game doesn't encourage grouping since I have no desire to play it solo. The more "solo friendly" you make the game the worse the grouping game is.
What you are missing is that it's exactly proportional in harming the game according to how much solo activity you add. DAoC, IMO, had it just right in the original game. You could solo, but it was rather excrutiating. That's perfect. The game I like to play, not the game you like to play, is directly harmed when you add solo content. The more I can solo, the less I like the game.
MAke sense now?
What you don't get is that not everyone, and in fact, most other people, do NOT have the same "wants" as you. People do NOT play online games for the sole reason of grouping (chatting, auction house, pvp, showing off gear ...) and there is no reason why your reason is more legitimate than theirs.
I'm going to respond without having slogged through all 10 pages so forgive me if I repeat something said.
I am sick to death of the argument that if you like to solo don't play an MMO. There are many reasons why I play an MMO. And the biggest one is content. An MMO is a constantly evolving world, unlike a static single player game. Theoretically it has no end, unlike a single player game. You have crafting, an auction house, the possibilty of newly introduced items, all of which do not exist in a single player game. Sick, sick, sick of people saying MMO's are only for grouping. I like the live, immediate, growing world of an MMO as opposed to the static, finished feel of a single player game. Been dying to rant about this for awhile, thanks for the opportunity...heh
I like MMOs because I can't beat them in less than a month of casual play, unlike every other single player I've ever played. Somedays I like to group and other days I don't feel like dealing with people. Many days I'll only have an hour or two and don't feel like spending half of it LFG to be able to progress. More and more MMO players are casual gamers that can't or won't devote 40 hours a week to play a game and devs know this and don't want to ignore that market.
Nothing is preventing you from grouping to do solo quests. I do it all the time. The reverse of doing group quests solo is rarely true unless you are far above the intended level. MMO <> grouping. You can have plenty of interaction with others without grouping. I'm not forcing you to solo, don't force me to group, OK?
CoX is an excellent solo/group hybrid. It is possible to solo all the way through (some classes are easier than others), but it's also possible to group all the way through. The individual missions/dungeons scale to team size, and all reqards are shared equally. There are some rewards that do require grouping to obtain, but if you don't have them, it won't interfere with the "playability" of the game.
I don't want to play an RPG in a living world. I don't want to do quests, or collect gear, or grind, or increase my character stats in a living world. If I want to do those things, I will play a single player game like Fallout 3.
When I play an online game, I am playing for one reason, and one reason only, so I can group with other players. The quests are not fun, the grind is not fun, collecting gear is not fun, leveling is not fun. Being in a group is fun.
So, there does not need to be BOTH elements for the game to be successful for me. There is nothing for me to do if the game doesn't encourage grouping since I have no desire to play it solo. The more "solo friendly" you make the game the worse the grouping game is.
What you are missing is that it's exactly proportional in harming the game according to how much solo activity you add. DAoC, IMO, had it just right in the original game. You could solo, but it was rather excrutiating. That's perfect. The game I like to play, not the game you like to play, is directly harmed when you add solo content. The more I can solo, the less I like the game.
MAke sense now?
What you don't get is that not everyone, and in fact, most other people, do NOT have the same "wants" as you. People do NOT play online games for the sole reason of grouping (chatting, auction house, pvp, showing off gear ...) and there is no reason why your reason is more legitimate than theirs.
Okay, so you don't like the basketball metaphor - how about success irl? People define financial IRL Success differently. For some, it's making millions of dollars as a CEO of a major corporation. Others relish the challenge of owning their own business. Still others prefer not to be tied down to desk and choose careers that offer more individual freedom. None is any better or worse than the others--they're just different ways to reach that individual person's own desired level of success.
Why can't an MMO be the same? For me, the ultimate point of playing a game (MMORPG or otherwise) is to have fun. I've had times where soloing was stressful or boring. I've been on 'perfect' pugs and pugs that were so horrible I didn't care about being "that guy" - the one who bails before the first mission is finished. CoX gives me all those options.
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The less you expect, the more you'll be surprised. Hopefully, pleasantly so.
This is a pretty good point and most MMOs that have been out for a while fight to battle this problem. It extends to a lot of content that ends up just not being used. The new expansion comes out and everyone is there and the great content prior goes largely unused.
I like that WoW addresses this issue by making the previous content more solo friendly. That being said, I think EQ2's mentoring system is the best. Of all the MMOs I have played (and that is a lot) I think EQ2 has the most groups available at lower levels. It isn't perfect but the mentoring system plus alt-itus seems to make a lot of folks available at lower levels. I am speaking more os unused content and finding groups at lower levels though.
As far as soloing versus grouping...I think any MMO would be severely gimped if it didn't have both. To say it can't just doesn't make sense to me. What MMO doesn't have both to some degree? There is a constant push and pull battle in the risk versus reward for solo and group play, but I can't imagine having both. In my head, it seems that you should be able to get better gear in groups and raids than solo but I know a lot of people don't think that way.
I also agree with the downtime comment. I don't get to know people like I used to in EQ1. A lot of the time you are lucky if the group lasts for more than 20 minutes to finish a quest. What is the fun in that? I liked forging friendships that meant something in-game even at lower levels. I think a "problem" with EQ2 and WoW both is that the game is all about solo - leveling until max level then the tone and feel switches to mostly group and raid. Why not both all the way through?
I actually find that entertaining. I'm playng an online MMORPG because of the unexpected experiences I will have grouping with other players. Not to get loot, not to be l33t, not for the quests and stale story lines that dont' change the game world, not for going "ding" when I get a level, or a new skill level.
So a bunch of asshats getting the group wiped is perfectly fine, because I'm entertained, and that's all I"m looking for from the game.