"Anyway, here I am sitting at my desk wondering why The Saga of Ryzom isn't such a big hit?"
After reading up and looking at screens I as a big fan of games tried to squeeze in the open beta but unfortunately I had to much going on with a new job etc.
SoR doesnt appeal to me. The impression I have gotten is that it looks kinda cute...I am looking for more dirt in the MMOs I play (all who have seen Midg
---------------------------------------- Playing: Rogue Played: AO, CoH, DAoC, EQII, Horizons, Planetside, SWG Tested: AC2, Lineage II, Vanguard, WoW...and more
*sighs* ... I can tell you guys why people seem to get up in arms about Ryzom praise. It was Nevrax's mistake for letting us Americans into an early foreign beta. No one seems to understand that. There were things missing from the last open beta, and the dev's told us exactly what would be introduced for release and what would be patched in (things unnecessary for play is what for the most part they left to patch in later). Everything that they said was finished but not in the beta was there upon release. I'm American, don't get me wrong, but frankly I see exactly what our european friends mean when they talk about how we acted on this one. It was a BETA, folks:P
Why is it that everyone fails to notice this??
EDIT: To answer the original question, Ryzom isn't getting a lot of attention here because it's a European game that wasn't really marketed much in the US. *we're* the small foreign market on this one 8)
Played it since it went live without being in the beta.
Cant say that it was worth 50$ and wont be worth another 13$ a month until the terrible lag is fixed that makes plaing near to impossible atm AND the game offers all the features that were promised proir to release.
The devs announced (during the last open beta) what would be patched in after release (detailed quests and related NPC interaction, guild/outpost quests, seasons, and permanent server/storyline changes). Everything else is finished, as promised.
We all have different tastes, and if you just don't like Ryzom, that's completely valid. But this is kinda what I was talking about:P
And yeah, the lag is bad ATM, I'm waiting for them to fix it. It came directly after a patch a few days ago that also involved hardware upgrades.
I've seen ads in PC Gamer and Computer Games Magazine had a 8 page ads Oct, 2004 issue. But I have not seen any magazine previews of the game or heard anything other then the ads. I will wait for EQ2 and if I find I don't like EQ2 I may try Ryzon.
First of all, im playing SoR since Open Beta and i buyed my copy at released, i also played Runescape, UO, FFXI, L2 (ashamed.... it sucked) and i tryed AO, AC2 and WoW's beta. Oh and by the way my first language is french (im from Quebec, canada) so sorry about mistakes.
now about ryzom :
First the game will not appeal to the realistic or Dark design fans but for people who likes cartoon-like design, its awsome. The world is also awsome, i could spend hours looking at the sky, the sunsets/sunrise are amazing, every new area is a feast for the eyes.
The interraction between npc are better then any other game i played, ive seen mobs fighting each other, going from corpses to corpses looking for food (well i killed like 10 messab and 2 Goari were following my path stopping at each dead messab), mobs that dont aggro can "see" you, track you and do various actions near you... all those little details make the world really complete and immersing.
About the gameplay : its been said before and i totally agree, nothing new except the stanza system. But i think its great to be able to customize all of your action the way YOU want it. I also find it refreshing that your not stuck with the old Elf Ranger or Ogre Fighter... You can be whatever you want. Another great thing is the crafting system and the drops on the mobs... I never understand why a beast (no weapons no armor) could drop items, in Ryzom they drop skin, hair, bones, meat, etc.. and you can craft weapons/armor with them. I also like how PVP works, theres no PKers... you know the one (kids raised by there PC) who think killing newbies is funny... The duel are a great way to avoid those and satisfy the PVPer, there's also some open PvP area and dont forget the capacity of the raid engine (hordes of monster can attack a town in groups). An other great thing is that its one of the few games where the grind is nearly not persceptible, you lvl quite fast since theres 250 lvls, if you play well you can avoid dowm time, if your a crafter you can craft with the drops, theres always tasks to be done (small quests that some of the beta tester confused with real quests).
My thought about community, hype and populartity :
At first i thought, this games should be at least at the same lvl as EQ2 or WOW but I think it would be bad for the game. I mean EQ2 and WoW popularity is all about advertising and big cie names.... so you get a bunch of people thinking WoW is the next big thing in MMOs and I want to be cool and play it. So the player base is filled with kids, immature or plain stupid people (not all WoW or EQ2 enthousiast are like that but believe me there will be a lot of them). So thats the main reason why a non-american or asian made game, produced by a new cie is not getting the attention WoW or EQ2 is getting, and the advantage to all SoR player is that the community is one of the best in MMOs.
About the Beta and bugs : it was clearly stated that the main story (main quest) elements where not in and lots of people complained about it. Yes there was lots of bugs, like any other beta. Yes it was released with bugs still in it but i gotta say that they are doing an excellent job fixing them. You also have to take in count that Nevrax is not Blizzard, there on a budget... so they need money to keep working on the game. All MMOs ive played at released had bugs and there was lots of patching... In some games like FFXI there was server crashes every now and then, wich is far worse then a few bugs and a little lag problem (and Nevrax is working hard on both).
So im gonna keep playing Ryzom and i dont care for WoW anymore... its just the new "cool" game with nothing new and nothing better then Ryzom... I might try EQ2 but it would take a hell of a game to make me quit Ryzom and for what ive seen/read i really dont think its going to happen.
"I am a game guru who ever played tons of games, including CoH, L2, SWG, UO, AC, AC2, DoAc, EQ, FFXI, EO, AO....and alot, anyway you have to believe me that I am a GURU gamer.
I dont like SoR during the Beta just like all and every other beta testers. Suddenly, I cant live without this game, it's so good, it's perfect, even if it's not perfect, the flaws will be fixed and the game will be perfect. Just take a look at the hype-meter, it's high up the hill. I dont need to list any facts of how good it is. It'just good, trust me, I am a GURU. Graphics are awesome, animations are perfect, gameplay is perfect..........everything is perfect. Trust me, I am a GURU."
I heard too much about this kinda propaganda things so I purchased the game, yet it's such a trash game that I have to delete it from my hard drive after 3 days of playing (i never did a game deletion that fast before).
BTW, no offense. I am not trying to stop anyone from purchasing one and have a look at it by himself. I am just abit pissed off when what I saw in the game is not what i had been told.
I bought the game yesterday..proceeded to try and login and the server was down..ok np..go back to playing EQ2 beta for a bit..try again to log into ryzom..yay it's up..5 minutes later..have to take server down..ok..sigh..back to EQ2 beta..an hour later get back on..and I am rubberbanding everywhere..lots of lag..graphics remind me of anarchy online..I will give it a week and hope I can get past my first impressions of the game which I won't print here lol..
I beta-ed Ryzom from april to september and IMO it has lots of potential. The game has some good selling points in the form of a comprehensive crafting system and highly customizable player advancement system. However the developers constantly seem to have in balancing almost all aspects of the game. Which is why the beta population had been dwindling all the way from april to september, and subsequently its quiet launch.
However, because of the "infrastructure" already in place in ryzom, i believe that with enough work, the game could turn out to be like Anarchy Online. Like what some of the above posters have pointed out, the upcoming patches seem promising.
Okay... My "introduction" to Ryzom is so similar to the original poster's it's almost scary.. minus the Fed-Ex lady.. I bought mine at the store.
I have to say that - after playing FFXI for the better part of a year before burning out on the constant dependence on other players that game requires, I started looking for another MMOG to call "home"...
The search took me through many, many MMOGs.. many of the same ones mentioned by others in this very thread. None of them grabbed me the way FFXI did at the beginning.
I even tried the Beta for Ryzom and it just didn't really impress me.. it seemed unpolished and clunky. I wrote it off as something I wouldn't play full-time, though so much about it still intrigued me.. I found myself tracking its progress over time anyway.
Well.. anyway... I decided to try it again when it came out for retail release, and I am glad every minute I'm playing it now that I did. Without gushing too much, I can honestly say that Ryzom is likely to become my next "home" MMOG.
I do hope, though, that its popularity picks up a bit.. just enough to maintain the game and make sure the team behind it are well enough taken care of. If it even reaches the status of an Anarchy Online, where it has a "smaller" but dedicated playerbase.. that'll be fine by me... From what I've read, the revenue from Anarchy Online's subscriber base pays for the on-going support of the game, *plus* some other projects FunCom is working on.. So that's not bad at all, I'd say.
I know I'm doing my part to get the word out.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I've just read through a theory saying that it's a kinda human nature to pick on the negative side of anything, including a game. So it's not uncommon to see ppl whinning even in the case that the game is 99.99% near to perfection.
When a lengthy comment coming out without a single bit of negativism, however, the chances are;
case 1) The game is really a good game while the person who gave out the comment is trying to be objective and *positive* enough to not to fall into the negativism by human nature.
case 2) The game is actually not that good, but it's flaws are covered up by some candy-coated words. Thou it doesn't necessarily (yet possible ) mean that the commentor is intentionally lieing, it can hardly be considered as an objective comment anyway (if it's not kinda propaganda).
By assuming that it's a case 1), I bought the game yet I found out that it's totally not the case. The game is not ready even for a release. The server is constantly out of reach. The game is boring, of course, when you are bored you may look at the stars in the sky and admire what a good game it is, thank god. The graphics and animations suck (yep, that's a comment when I pick on the char models and make a comparison with L2). The interface sucks, you cant change the camera view during combats (atleast not the way as how it is off combats). Some argued that it's because the interface is not intuitive enough, not because it sucks. Ok, perfect, something not intuitive but perfect...lol.
Now I have to assume that case 2) is the truth. Again I could be just another whinner commenting on a game 99.99% near perfection. Take you own risks and make your own decisions. Or better wait and see till you see comments saying that the game is improved.
That's a pretty interesting assessment. Though, it seems a little black-and-white...
I realize the game has flaws, still... that the performance of the servers isn't 100% yet and what-not.. But, I am still very much enjoying Saga of Ryzom. For me, looking at the sky, or all the other various examples of attention-to-detail put into the game, is just icing. This opinion could change down the road, though. I'm not counting that out. I thought I'd never get sick of FFXI for the first 5 months I was playing it. Now I don't think I'd care if I never played it again. So, anything is possible.
However, for now, I'm enjoying the game for what it is and what it has. There's more than enough there now to keep me engaged and interested. And as it's so soon after the game's launch, this is *the* time, I think, to be patient and optimistic, because from this point forward, the game can only get better (unless Nevrax totally fumbles it.. but let's hope not :-).
I stopped seeing the point in picking things apart for what they're not some time ago. If I can find so many problems with something, and am spending more time picking at it than actually *playing* (or watching, or listening to) it.. then I'm wasting my time with it altogether and should move on. Such was the case with Horizons. It surprises me to see how many people are still posting to that game's forums going on about all the problems, though they haven't been paying subscribers for months.
I do agree with the consensus that people tend to focus on the negative, and have read similar articles. Human nature is like that. I won't go into philosophies of why, but it is absolutely true. And nowhere does that seem to be so much in evidence than on the 'net.
Anyhow... I don't fit into either of the scenarios you put there. I realize the game has problems still.. it's a MMOG, it's just after launch, there are wrinkles to iron out and performance tweaks to make... problems are a given. With *any* software. If this were 10 months into the game's release - or even 5 months - and the lag were still an issue... okay, it'd become annoying and I'd be wondering what Nevrax are doing, exactly, over there. If they weren't so vocal with the community in letting us know what is going on, and that they're working on it, it would bother me. But... so far, it's only.. what.. a week or so, maybe, after the game's release and Nevrax so far have proven to be very cognizant of their responsibilities and of what's going on in their product. I think they're doing a fine job, and so I will be patient, enjoy the game that they've provided me and look forward to what's to come... until such a time comes that I either grow bored with it, or decide that maybe they're not as on-the-ball as I thought. Then I'll re-assess the situation and go from there.
But.. that's just my take.. :-)
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I dont mean to point my figure at anyone, actually it's no problem whatever attitude one may have towards a game, negative or positive, feelings may vary from person to person.
Since I have had a rather bad experience, which is, purchased a game which i regret, i feel that I need to remind those who's planning to buy a game by referencing furum opinions (like me), that personal feelings or opinions given out may not be accurate, and could be very biased especially those comments containing not a single bit of negative aspects yet with an inviting tone.
To the posters, what they care about could be just to express their feelings, while to a potential buyer, accurate information are the most important. So the buyer should always remind himself that,
1) It's not the posters' responsibility to provide accurate information other than personal feelings and opinions.
2) Better filter all those all positive and/or all negative posts.
3) It's always possible that an all-positive post is sorta propaganda ADs.
My apologise if you found my posts offensive, I dont mean it.
Hmm.. I see where you're going with that post, Hawkin.. Basically, you're saying to potential new customers to keep in mind that what they read on these threads is likely no more than people's opinions. Well, unless you're speaking absolute facts, like "There are X-amount of starting races", it's all opinion.
However, your post does take a more cynical lean than an objective one. Basically, you're saying "don't trust any post that is entirely positive because it could well be propaganda". Why does that have to be the case? Because you disagree and can't imagine anyone having an entirely and sincerely positive opinion of it?
And why do you only warn of the all positive posts? What of all negative posts that just trash it from start to finish? I suppose those could be, by your reasoning, posts by developers or reps for other MMOGs that are trying to prevent people from playing a competitor's game by making the game sound as bad as possible. Or just people who didn't like the game and, through some insecurity or intolerance of a differing opinion, don't want anyone else to like it either?
The point is, it's all opinion. It's all subjective. It's all colored by the person, what they like and dislike, their expectations, their own point-of-view and in some cases, their own agenda. Anyone reading a forum such as this one and considering a purchase should take all opinions - positive and negative - with the same grain of salt, and make their own decision from that.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
That's right, like I said, dont trust those all positive-posts, if you are gonna make a decison on purchasing anything, not just a game. Always read the 2 sides of a story.
You may have an entirely and sincerely positive opinion, I cant stop that and I wont stop that. Logically, who can tell if an all-positive or all-negative post is sincere or not. More, like I said, it's not something about sincerity, it's about accurate information based on which is purchasing decision is made. An *opinion* can be very sincere, yet you cant simply equate a very sincere opinion to very accurate piece of information.
Be frank, I will be surprised when ppl say that, "That's my most sincere opinion, and you must believe it".
I warn more on the all-positive posts because it could cause you losing money directly.
That's my most sincere opinion, you may choose to believe it or not.
Maybe they turned off too many people with the very early open beta? The beta client was even on gaming magazine DVDs over here (the UK) so I'm sure it got plenty of reach. I tried it then and was pretty turned off, a completely unintuitive interface and much of the game still to be implemented (they still don't have quests? :0 ). Still I hope it does well, I did like the quirky graphical style.
i think the reason most people dont like this game is first of all the noob zone. its a desert which to me is not very apealing. and overall the game seemed limited. not as much as lineage 2 but enough. plus the quest which i find is one of the funnest parts of mmorpg besides PvP.
i also think this game is a little out there. and the pots not there. really what is the plot?
I'm not dumping $50 or whatever on a game I havn't tried, especially a MMORPG. I think there's a rather large amount of players out there who, like me, look for games with demos/trials, and make purchasing decisions based on that. If I come to the end of a trial and I'm having enough fun, and like my toon enough that I want to continue it, then the game gets added to my collection.
Originally posted by LØST i think the reason most people dont like this game is first of all the noob zone. its a desert which to me is not very apealing. and overall the game seemed limited. not as much as lineage 2 but enough. plus the quest which i find is one of the funnest parts of mmorpg besides PvP. i also think this game is a little out there. and the pots not there. really what is the plot?
LØST
Well, one of the Noob zones is a desert.. I started as a Matis and the area you start in is forest... Each has its own environment. You should try each of the different races/zones to see the differences. @Hawkin: Understood.. I think, luckily, that there are a small number of people (relatively speaking) who confuse their opinions with fact... you know.. it's a *fact*, that they have an *opinion*.. but that's about it :-). Furthermore, I'm pretty sure most people are able to see a post like that for what it is. If I see someone going off on any program, all positive or all negative, I just say "Okay.. they really like it/hate it.. and if they give well-reasoned examples for either case, I'll read it and take it into consideration. If it's just a rant for or against, I generally don't pay it much attention. Fair enough, though :-).
Edit:@ Hawkin:Okay, I just read your review of Ryzom... "Another EQ clone poorly presented, bored even on the first day of playing. Graphics suck, you cant have a different camera view during combats, you see only you back during combats. Worst game i've ever played. Still I dont know why the rating is high, i simply think that the rating is misleading. "
First, your review contains some bits of false, or otherwise unsupported claims. You absolutely can control the camera, during fighting and otherwise - you simply press and hold the left mouse button and move the mouse around. Voila. You say it's a poorly presented EQ clone.. How so? Please make some direct comparisons to back that impression. Your review reads like little more than a rant, lacking any objectivity or supporting details.
I also notice a bit of a trend with you of considering any positive review, or a high rating for SoR as "misleading" or possible "propaganda", or what not. And it is a bit disturbing. Why is the idea that maybe more people really enjoy the game than dislike it so suspect to you that you want to dismiss it? People do not have to share your opinion of something for it to be valid, whether you disagree or not. Do you feel your opinion of the game is somehow more valid or legitimate than anyone else's who likes it? I really don't understand that mindset.. But.. anyway.. there ya go. Just wanted to respond to that.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
That's exactly the point I'd like to emphasize. Always view an all-positvie and/or all-negative post with a questioning mind, as an all-negative post may contain inaccurate information. My another point here is, bashing an all-negative post should not automatically give credits to an all-positvie posts. I dont see how a discredit to an all-negative post will give a credit to an all-positive post, AND any attempt to give discredit to whoever should not blur out the following,
1) Ignore the all-positive and all-negative posts, which may contain inaccurate information. And all-positive posts may possibly be propaganda ADs.
2) It's not the posters' responsibilty to give out accurate information other than personal opinions and personal feelings.
3) Dont let the discredit of an all-negative post be a credit to an all-postive post, there is no automatic relationship between the 2, no matter how hard one might try.
Moreover, I said that it's always possible that an all-positive/all-negative post may be sorta propaganda ADs. I never hint about the "high rate* as you twisted (any motive for a twist? ).
"Do you feel your opinion of the game is somehow more valid or legitimate than anyone else's who likes it? I really don't understand that mindset"
That's exactly the mindset I have to disagree. Why should anyone to insist his all-positive comments or all-negative comments be more valid or more close to the facts. To me, a comment containing both positvie and negative comments will be more reliable and more close to the truth, simply because it's almost for certain that it's not a propaganda AD (no, no marketing staff will add any negative comments to an AD).
You may continue to give discredit to my posts or me directly, I simply dont think that I need to do the same to any of posts in order to make my points more clear. I couldn't care less about anyone who agree with me or not. Any challenge towards the above 3 points are welcome, any discredit you might think of and extract from my all-negative posts *about the game* is welcome too .
[quote]Originally posted by Hawkins You may continue to give discredit to my posts or me directly, I simply dont think that I need to do the same to any of posts in order to make my point clear.
I'm not discreditng your general point.. I agree with that and agreed with you. I did, however, challenge a few of your comments.
What brought me to ask if you feel your view of the game is more valid than anyone else's is this comment from your review:
"Still I dont know why the rating is high, i simply think that the rating is misleading."
How can people's votes for a game be misleading? It's an average of all the points people have given it through their votes and is an accurate consensus, of sorts, of how well people like SoR. So you disagree with them and feel completely opposite about it. Great. That does not mean that anyone who does like it and give it high scores is somehow "misled" into liking it, or trying to mislead anyone else.
I'm thinking maybe you were trying to make a different point, but used the wrong word to do so.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
the game is fun for 6 months or so but after that point with lack of content/minimal population the grind eventually gets to you, this is MY personal experience from beta testing the game.
It just got boring and couldnt keep my attention. It was FUN and enjoyable for the first 3 months yes during open beta etc. At the 3 month point the fun started to lessen.
Asking people who just bought the game how it is is wrong IMO, and all those rating the game from their 2 hours experience isn't good enough (FOR BOTH NEGATIVE AND POSITIVE REVIEWS).
You need to really play a game before reviewing it, ryzom in particular u need to be lvl 20+ at least to even get to mainland and fight etc. The grind is slow so that could take a few days depending on how much you play in a day etc.
I never disagree that i didnt have a good time, i did enjoy ryzom for a good long time but eventually everything comes to an end and as time went on i realised and discovered more flaws in the actual client/design of ryzom some so severe they would probably NEVER get fixed. This ultimately led me not to go to release even though the community rocked and was the best community i've ever been with.
Top 5 MAIN PROBLEMS:
1. Game is boundary based and only 2d the 'height' dimension isn't used whatsoever... you cant jump and in many places you can get stuck on terrain. 2. This is first game being released by Company, first publisher wanadoo dropped them for reasons undisclosed (aint a good sign when a large publisher drops what it is publishing). They have a lack of experience noted by poor releasing schedule/lack of alternative payment methods. Other things like slow bug fixing.... for example im sure a few of the random_random_xxx_name_01 names are still present in release. Which have been known for over 5 months are still present. Other things like LAG and lack of communication add to this. 3. Promised key items which were meant to be in 'release' aren't present. Mektoub, Guild Outpost management/wars. These were part of 5 defining features that SoR was always advertised as being. Its no good promising them months after release as in a way customers have been tricked into buying a product. 4. Ultimately small community, from people i know in release it is estimated that total subscription to ryzom is around 2000 people (across the world), being split across 4 servers. Estimating that subscriber base for each server is about 500-ish people. This leads to insecurity about ones characters future, for example if ryzom went the way of horizons because of a too small community that would ultimately affect service/lag/updates and could mean that all your characters advancement be wasted when the game dies 6 months down the line. 5. Finally for me personally i beta tested SoR from 2.3 closed beta. back in january until the end of beta testing. I was in closed 2.3 all the way to the end. I have seen many new faces and nearly all of them leave through discontent/boredom. Even the webmaster of the main english fansite left. For me seeing so many people percentage wise leave the game and not stick with it was alarming and ultimately put me off. There was nothing to hold them playing for longer than 2 months in most cases because without content it was just grinding for grinding sake. That was beta so it could be excused because it was beta but now you are at release and have hardly no content in your gam. SoR has stated that it had 180000 beta testers subscribe over the period... now i want to know how they come with that figure because if it is true then that means about 98% of the people who tried SoR didn't buy it. Doesn't instill confidence does it?. In all honesty i believe that those figures like most things about MMORPGS are hype.
There are many redeeming qualities about the game and in all honesty if you asked me if you should try the game 4 months ago i would've said yes do. I still do in some ways, if you have 50 bucks spare then sure give it a try it kept me entertained for 6 months it probably will with you too. If money is tight then perhaps you should wait until you can trial the game.
At one point i believed in ryzom's potential... what it could be. I always accepted what would be in ryzom in its future. Eventually as a beta tester you have to stop listening to hyped up future plans and see the current work achieved on a game, if in your heart you see that the game during beta has been developing slow (at its fastest developing time) then you should accept you wont feel happy with the game when it releases. Especially if said game delays beta testing 3 months but you believe those 3 months were pretty much wasted on focus beta testing which should have been done back in closed beta. Tweaking exp for example which pretty much took up 4 weeks worth of time (33.3% of the extension) and even now it is severly nerfed.
Well as i said try it and decide for yourself, dont believe hype, dont believe ratings as they can easily be fixed. If you got money to spare try it... it most likely will blow you away for a good 3 months.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
[quote] high rating for SoR as "misleading" or possible "propaganda"[/quote]
1) the rating is *misleading*
2) an all-positive comment may possibly be *propaganda*
3) how could a rating be *misleading* and possibly *propaganda*
Statement 3) is trying to dig up a flaw in statement 1), relate it to statement 2), make you think that statement 2) is a flaw too.
That's what I am thinking. Wrong words used? hehe...prolly be wrong sentences, or wrong grammar, or wrong spelling or wrong punctuation...keep digging them up wont help to unjustify this;
2) an all-positive comment may possibly be sorta *propaganda* AD
Originally posted by Hawkins high rating for SoR as "misleading" or possible "propaganda"
1) the rating is *misleading* 2) an all-positive comment may possibly be *propaganda* 3) how could a rating be *misleading* and possibly *propaganda* Statement 3) is trying to dig up a flaw in statement 1), relate it to statement 2), make you think that statement 2) is a flaw too. That's what I am thinking. Wrong words used? hehe...prolly be wrong sentences, or wrong grammar, or wrong spelling or wrong punctuation...keep digging them up wont help to unjustify this; 2) an all-positive comment may possibly be sorta *propaganda* AD
basically you are saying that nothing is perfect and if a user says:
"My Review of RYzom" and posts 40 bullet points all positives then its got to be biased. Because nothing is perfect and the author is leaving out the negatives as propaganda.... totall agree.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
Comments
"Anyway, here I am sitting at my desk wondering why The Saga of Ryzom isn't such a big hit?"
After reading up and looking at screens I as a big fan of games tried to squeeze in the open beta but unfortunately I had to much going on with a new job etc.
SoR doesnt appeal to me. The impression I have gotten is that it looks kinda cute...I am looking for more dirt in the MMOs I play (all who have seen Midg
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Playing: Rogue
Played: AO, CoH, DAoC, EQII, Horizons, Planetside, SWG
Tested: AC2, Lineage II, Vanguard, WoW...and more
*sighs* ... I can tell you guys why people seem to get up in arms about Ryzom praise. It was Nevrax's mistake for letting us Americans into an early foreign beta. No one seems to understand that. There were things missing from the last open beta, and the dev's told us exactly what would be introduced for release and what would be patched in (things unnecessary for play is what for the most part they left to patch in later). Everything that they said was finished but not in the beta was there upon release. I'm American, don't get me wrong, but frankly I see exactly what our european friends mean when they talk about how we acted on this one. It was a BETA, folks:P
Why is it that everyone fails to notice this??
EDIT: To answer the original question, Ryzom isn't getting a lot of attention here because it's a European game that wasn't really marketed much in the US. *we're* the small foreign market on this one 8)
Played it since it went live without being in the beta.
Cant say that it was worth 50$ and wont be worth another 13$ a month until the terrible lag is fixed that makes plaing near to impossible atm AND the game offers all the features that were promised proir to release.
The devs announced (during the last open beta) what would be patched in after release (detailed quests and related NPC interaction, guild/outpost quests, seasons, and permanent server/storyline changes). Everything else is finished, as promised.
We all have different tastes, and if you just don't like Ryzom, that's completely valid. But this is kinda what I was talking about:P
And yeah, the lag is bad ATM, I'm waiting for them to fix it. It came directly after a patch a few days ago that also involved hardware upgrades.
Good Journey
Loneshadow<Supreme Dragon>
Founder of the Dragon Lords
http://kinncaid.proboards20.com/index.cgi
Good Journey
Loneshadow<Overlord>
Founder of the Dragon Lords
http://kinncaid.proboards20.com/index.cgi
First of all, im playing SoR since Open Beta and i buyed my copy at released, i also played Runescape, UO, FFXI, L2 (ashamed.... it sucked) and i tryed AO, AC2 and WoW's beta. Oh and by the way my first language is french (im from Quebec, canada) so sorry about mistakes.
now about ryzom :
First the game will not appeal to the realistic or Dark design fans but for people who likes cartoon-like design, its awsome. The world is also awsome, i could spend hours looking at the sky, the sunsets/sunrise are amazing, every new area is a feast for the eyes.
The interraction between npc are better then any other game i played, ive seen mobs fighting each other, going from corpses to corpses looking for food (well i killed like 10 messab and 2 Goari were following my path stopping at each dead messab), mobs that dont aggro can "see" you, track you and do various actions near you... all those little details make the world really complete and immersing.
About the gameplay : its been said before and i totally agree, nothing new except the stanza system. But i think its great to be able to customize all of your action the way YOU want it. I also find it refreshing that your not stuck with the old Elf Ranger or Ogre Fighter... You can be whatever you want. Another great thing is the crafting system and the drops on the mobs... I never understand why a beast (no weapons no armor) could drop items, in Ryzom they drop skin, hair, bones, meat, etc.. and you can craft weapons/armor with them. I also like how PVP works, theres no PKers... you know the one (kids raised by there PC) who think killing newbies is funny... The duel are a great way to avoid those and satisfy the PVPer, there's also some open PvP area and dont forget the capacity of the raid engine (hordes of monster can attack a town in groups). An other great thing is that its one of the few games where the grind is nearly not persceptible, you lvl quite fast since theres 250 lvls, if you play well you can avoid dowm time, if your a crafter you can craft with the drops, theres always tasks to be done (small quests that some of the beta tester confused with real quests).
My thought about community, hype and populartity :
At first i thought, this games should be at least at the same lvl as EQ2 or WOW but I think it would be bad for the game. I mean EQ2 and WoW popularity is all about advertising and big cie names.... so you get a bunch of people thinking WoW is the next big thing in MMOs and I want to be cool and play it. So the player base is filled with kids, immature or plain stupid people (not all WoW or EQ2 enthousiast are like that but believe me there will be a lot of them). So thats the main reason why a non-american or asian made game, produced by a new cie is not getting the attention WoW or EQ2 is getting, and the advantage to all SoR player is that the community is one of the best in MMOs.
About the Beta and bugs : it was clearly stated that the main story (main quest) elements where not in and lots of people complained about it. Yes there was lots of bugs, like any other beta. Yes it was released with bugs still in it but i gotta say that they are doing an excellent job fixing them. You also have to take in count that Nevrax is not Blizzard, there on a budget... so they need money to keep working on the game. All MMOs ive played at released had bugs and there was lots of patching... In some games like FFXI there was server crashes every now and then, wich is far worse then a few bugs and a little lag problem (and Nevrax is working hard on both).
So im gonna keep playing Ryzom and i dont care for WoW anymore... its just the new "cool" game with nothing new and nothing better then Ryzom... I might try EQ2 but it would take a hell of a game to make me quit Ryzom and for what ive seen/read i really dont think its going to happen.
May I call this a kinda PR, AD marketing:
"I am a game guru who ever played tons of games, including CoH, L2, SWG, UO, AC, AC2, DoAc, EQ, FFXI, EO, AO....and alot, anyway you have to believe me that I am a GURU gamer.
I dont like SoR during the Beta just like all and every other beta testers. Suddenly, I cant live without this game, it's so good, it's perfect, even if it's not perfect, the flaws will be fixed and the game will be perfect. Just take a look at the hype-meter, it's high up the hill. I dont need to list any facts of how good it is. It'just good, trust me, I am a GURU. Graphics are awesome, animations are perfect, gameplay is perfect..........everything is perfect. Trust me, I am a GURU."
I heard too much about this kinda propaganda things so I purchased the game, yet it's such a trash game that I have to delete it from my hard drive after 3 days of playing (i never did a game deletion that fast before).
BTW, no offense.
I am not trying to stop anyone from purchasing one and have a look at it by himself. I am just abit pissed off when what I saw in the game is not what i had been told.
I beta-ed Ryzom from april to september and IMO it has lots of potential. The game has some good selling points in the form of a comprehensive crafting system and highly customizable player advancement system. However the developers constantly seem to have in balancing almost all aspects of the game. Which is why the beta population had been dwindling all the way from april to september, and subsequently its quiet launch.
However, because of the "infrastructure" already in place in ryzom, i believe that with enough work, the game could turn out to be like Anarchy Online. Like what some of the above posters have pointed out, the upcoming patches seem promising.
Okay... My "introduction" to Ryzom is so similar to the original poster's it's almost scary.. minus the Fed-Ex lady.. I bought mine at the store.
I have to say that - after playing FFXI for the better part of a year before burning out on the constant dependence on other players that game requires, I started looking for another MMOG to call "home"...
The search took me through many, many MMOGs.. many of the same ones mentioned by others in this very thread. None of them grabbed me the way FFXI did at the beginning.
I even tried the Beta for Ryzom and it just didn't really impress me.. it seemed unpolished and clunky. I wrote it off as something I wouldn't play full-time, though so much about it still intrigued me.. I found myself tracking its progress over time anyway.
Well.. anyway... I decided to try it again when it came out for retail release, and I am glad every minute I'm playing it now that I did. Without gushing too much, I can honestly say that Ryzom is likely to become my next "home" MMOG.
I do hope, though, that its popularity picks up a bit.. just enough to maintain the game and make sure the team behind it are well enough taken care of. If it even reaches the status of an Anarchy Online, where it has a "smaller" but dedicated playerbase.. that'll be fine by me... From what I've read, the revenue from Anarchy Online's subscriber base pays for the on-going support of the game, *plus* some other projects FunCom is working on.. So that's not bad at all, I'd say.
I know I'm doing my part to get the word out.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I've just read through a theory saying that it's a kinda human nature to pick on the negative side of anything, including a game. So it's not uncommon to see ppl whinning even in the case that the game is 99.99% near to perfection.
When a lengthy comment coming out without a single bit of negativism, however, the chances are;
case 1) The game is really a good game while the person who gave out the comment is trying to be objective and *positive* enough to not to fall into the negativism by human nature.
case 2) The game is actually not that good, but it's flaws are covered up by some candy-coated words. Thou it doesn't necessarily (yet possible
) mean that the commentor is intentionally lieing, it can hardly be considered as an objective comment anyway (if it's not kinda propaganda).
By assuming that it's a case 1), I bought the game yet I found out that it's totally not the case. The game is not ready even for a release. The server is constantly out of reach. The game is boring, of course, when you are bored you may look at the stars in the sky and admire what a good game it is, thank god. The graphics and animations suck (yep, that's a comment when I pick on the char models and make a comparison with L2). The interface sucks, you cant change the camera view during combats (atleast not the way as how it is off combats). Some argued that it's because the interface is not intuitive enough, not because it sucks. Ok, perfect, something not intuitive but perfect...lol.
Now I have to assume that case 2) is the truth. Again I could be just another whinner commenting on a game 99.99% near perfection.
Take you own risks and make your own decisions. Or better wait and see till you see comments saying that the game is improved. 
@Hawkins,
That's a pretty interesting assessment. Though, it seems a little black-and-white...
I realize the game has flaws, still... that the performance of the servers isn't 100% yet and what-not.. But, I am still very much enjoying Saga of Ryzom. For me, looking at the sky, or all the other various examples of attention-to-detail put into the game, is just icing. This opinion could change down the road, though. I'm not counting that out. I thought I'd never get sick of FFXI for the first 5 months I was playing it. Now I don't think I'd care if I never played it again. So, anything is possible.
However, for now, I'm enjoying the game for what it is and what it has. There's more than enough there now to keep me engaged and interested. And as it's so soon after the game's launch, this is *the* time, I think, to be patient and optimistic, because from this point forward, the game can only get better (unless Nevrax totally fumbles it.. but let's hope not :-).
I stopped seeing the point in picking things apart for what they're not some time ago. If I can find so many problems with something, and am spending more time picking at it than actually *playing* (or watching, or listening to) it.. then I'm wasting my time with it altogether and should move on. Such was the case with Horizons. It surprises me to see how many people are still posting to that game's forums going on about all the problems, though they haven't been paying subscribers for months.
I do agree with the consensus that people tend to focus on the negative, and have read similar articles. Human nature is like that. I won't go into philosophies of why, but it is absolutely true. And nowhere does that seem to be so much in evidence than on the 'net.
Anyhow... I don't fit into either of the scenarios you put there. I realize the game has problems still.. it's a MMOG, it's just after launch, there are wrinkles to iron out and performance tweaks to make... problems are a given. With *any* software. If this were 10 months into the game's release - or even 5 months - and the lag were still an issue... okay, it'd become annoying and I'd be wondering what Nevrax are doing, exactly, over there. If they weren't so vocal with the community in letting us know what is going on, and that they're working on it, it would bother me. But... so far, it's only.. what.. a week or so, maybe, after the game's release and Nevrax so far have proven to be very cognizant of their responsibilities and of what's going on in their product. I think they're doing a fine job, and so I will be patient, enjoy the game that they've provided me and look forward to what's to come... until such a time comes that I either grow bored with it, or decide that maybe they're not as on-the-ball as I thought. Then I'll re-assess the situation and go from there.
But.. that's just my take.. :-)
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I dont mean to point my figure at anyone, actually it's no problem whatever attitude one may have towards a game, negative or positive, feelings may vary from person to person.
Since I have had a rather bad experience, which is, purchased a game which i regret, i feel that I need to remind those who's planning to buy a game by referencing furum opinions (like me), that personal feelings or opinions given out may not be accurate, and could be very biased especially those comments containing not a single bit of negative aspects yet with an inviting tone.
To the posters, what they care about could be just to express their feelings, while to a potential buyer, accurate information are the most important. So the buyer should always remind himself that,
1) It's not the posters' responsibility to provide accurate information other than personal feelings and opinions.
2) Better filter all those all positive and/or all negative posts.
3) It's always possible that an all-positive post is sorta propaganda ADs.
My apologise if you found my posts offensive, I dont mean it.
Hmm.. I see where you're going with that post, Hawkin.. Basically, you're saying to potential new customers to keep in mind that what they read on these threads is likely no more than people's opinions. Well, unless you're speaking absolute facts, like "There are X-amount of starting races", it's all opinion.
However, your post does take a more cynical lean than an objective one. Basically, you're saying "don't trust any post that is entirely positive because it could well be propaganda". Why does that have to be the case? Because you disagree and can't imagine anyone having an entirely and sincerely positive opinion of it?
And why do you only warn of the all positive posts? What of all negative posts that just trash it from start to finish? I suppose those could be, by your reasoning, posts by developers or reps for other MMOGs that are trying to prevent people from playing a competitor's game by making the game sound as bad as possible. Or just people who didn't like the game and, through some insecurity or intolerance of a differing opinion, don't want anyone else to like it either?
The point is, it's all opinion. It's all subjective. It's all colored by the person, what they like and dislike, their expectations, their own point-of-view and in some cases, their own agenda. Anyone reading a forum such as this one and considering a purchase should take all opinions - positive and negative - with the same grain of salt, and make their own decision from that.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
That's right, like I said, dont trust those all positive-posts, if you are gonna make a decison on purchasing anything, not just a game. Always read the 2 sides of a story.
You may have an entirely and sincerely positive opinion, I cant stop that and I wont stop that. Logically, who can tell if an all-positive or all-negative post is sincere or not. More, like I said, it's not something about sincerity, it's about accurate information based on which is purchasing decision is made. An *opinion* can be very sincere, yet you cant simply equate a very sincere opinion to very accurate piece of information.
Be frank, I will be surprised when ppl say that, "That's my most sincere opinion, and you must believe it".
I warn more on the all-positive posts because it could cause you losing money directly.
That's my most sincere opinion, you may choose to believe it or not.
Maybe they turned off too many people with the very early open beta? The beta client was even on gaming magazine DVDs over here (the UK) so I'm sure it got plenty of reach. I tried it then and was pretty turned off, a completely unintuitive interface and much of the game still to be implemented (they still don't have quests? :0 ). Still I hope it does well, I did like the quirky graphical style.
i think the reason most people dont like this game is first of all the noob zone. its a desert which to me is not very apealing. and overall the game seemed limited. not as much as lineage 2 but enough. plus the quest which i find is one of the funnest parts of mmorpg besides PvP.
i also think this game is a little out there. and the pots not there. really what is the plot?
LØST
LØST
No free trial.
I'm not dumping $50 or whatever on a game I havn't tried, especially a MMORPG. I think there's a rather large amount of players out there who, like me, look for games with demos/trials, and make purchasing decisions based on that. If I come to the end of a trial and I'm having enough fun, and like my toon enough that I want to continue it, then the game gets added to my collection.
Originally posted by LØST
i think the reason most people dont like this game is first of all the noob zone. its a desert which to me is not very apealing. and overall the game seemed limited. not as much as lineage 2 but enough. plus the quest which i find is one of the funnest parts of mmorpg besides PvP.
i also think this game is a little out there. and the pots not there. really what is the plot?
LØST
Well, one of the Noob zones is a desert.. I started as a Matis and the area you start in is forest... Each has its own environment. You should try each of the different races/zones to see the differences.
@Hawkin:
Understood.. I think, luckily, that there are a small number of people (relatively speaking) who confuse their opinions with fact... you know.. it's a *fact*, that they have an *opinion*.. but that's about it :-). Furthermore, I'm pretty sure most people are able to see a post like that for what it is. If I see someone going off on any program, all positive or all negative, I just say "Okay.. they really like it/hate it.. and if they give well-reasoned examples for either case, I'll read it and take it into consideration. If it's just a rant for or against, I generally don't pay it much attention.
Fair enough, though :-).
Edit:@ Hawkin:Okay, I just read your review of Ryzom...
"Another EQ clone poorly presented, bored even on the first day of playing. Graphics suck, you cant have a different camera view during combats, you see only you back during combats. Worst game i've ever played. Still I dont know why the rating is high, i simply think that the rating is misleading. "
First, your review contains some bits of false, or otherwise unsupported claims. You absolutely can control the camera, during fighting and otherwise - you simply press and hold the left mouse button and move the mouse around. Voila. You say it's a poorly presented EQ clone.. How so? Please make some direct comparisons to back that impression. Your review reads like little more than a rant, lacking any objectivity or supporting details.
I also notice a bit of a trend with you of considering any positive review, or a high rating for SoR as "misleading" or possible "propaganda", or what not. And it is a bit disturbing. Why is the idea that maybe more people really enjoy the game than dislike it so suspect to you that you want to dismiss it? People do not have to share your opinion of something for it to be valid, whether you disagree or not. Do you feel your opinion of the game is somehow more valid or legitimate than anyone else's who likes it? I really don't understand that mindset.. But.. anyway.. there ya go. Just wanted to respond to that.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
That's exactly the point I'd like to emphasize. Always view an all-positvie and/or all-negative post with a questioning mind, as an all-negative post may contain inaccurate information. My another point here is, bashing an all-negative post should not automatically give credits to an all-positvie posts.
I dont see how a discredit to an all-negative post will give a credit to an all-positive post, AND any attempt to give discredit to whoever should not blur out the following,
1) Ignore the all-positive and all-negative posts, which may contain inaccurate information. And all-positive posts may possibly be propaganda ADs.
2) It's not the posters' responsibilty to give out accurate information other than personal opinions and personal feelings.
3) Dont let the discredit of an all-negative post be a credit to an all-postive post, there is no automatic relationship between the 2, no matter how hard one might try.
Moreover, I said that it's always possible that an all-positive/all-negative post may be sorta propaganda ADs. I never hint about the "high rate* as you twisted (any motive for a twist?
).
"Do you feel your opinion of the game is somehow more valid or legitimate than anyone else's who likes it? I really don't understand that mindset"
That's exactly the mindset I have to disagree. Why should anyone to insist his all-positive comments or all-negative comments be more valid or more close to the facts. To me, a comment containing both positvie and negative comments will be more reliable and more close to the truth, simply because it's almost for certain that it's not a propaganda AD (no, no marketing staff will add any negative comments to an AD).
You may continue to give discredit to my posts or me directly, I simply dont think that I need to do the same to any of posts in order to make my points more clear.
I couldn't care less about anyone who agree with me or not. Any challenge towards the above 3 points are welcome, any discredit you might think of and extract from my all-negative posts *about the game* is welcome too 
.
[quote]Originally posted by Hawkins
You may continue to give discredit to my posts or me directly, I simply dont think that I need to do the same to any of posts in order to make my point clear.
I'm not discreditng your general point.. I agree with that and agreed with you. I did, however, challenge a few of your comments.
What brought me to ask if you feel your view of the game is more valid than anyone else's is this comment from your review:
"Still I dont know why the rating is high, i simply think that the rating is misleading."
How can people's votes for a game be misleading? It's an average of all the points people have given it through their votes and is an accurate consensus, of sorts, of how well people like SoR. So you disagree with them and feel completely opposite about it. Great. That does not mean that anyone who does like it and give it high scores is somehow "misled" into liking it, or trying to mislead anyone else.
I'm thinking maybe you were trying to make a different point, but used the wrong word to do so.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
the game is fun for 6 months or so but after that point with lack of content/minimal population the grind eventually gets to you, this is MY personal experience from beta testing the game.
It just got boring and couldnt keep my attention. It was FUN and enjoyable for the first 3 months yes during open beta etc. At the 3 month point the fun started to lessen.
Asking people who just bought the game how it is is wrong IMO, and all those rating the game from their 2 hours experience isn't good enough (FOR BOTH NEGATIVE AND POSITIVE REVIEWS).
You need to really play a game before reviewing it, ryzom in particular u need to be lvl 20+ at least to even get to mainland and fight etc. The grind is slow so that could take a few days depending on how much you play in a day etc.
I never disagree that i didnt have a good time, i did enjoy ryzom for a good long time but eventually everything comes to an end and as time went on i realised and discovered more flaws in the actual client/design of ryzom some so severe they would probably NEVER get fixed. This ultimately led me not to go to release even though the community rocked and was the best community i've ever been with.
Top 5 MAIN PROBLEMS:
1. Game is boundary based and only 2d the 'height' dimension isn't used whatsoever... you cant jump and in many places you can get stuck on terrain.
2. This is first game being released by Company, first publisher wanadoo dropped them for reasons undisclosed (aint a good sign when a large publisher drops what it is publishing). They have a lack of experience noted by poor releasing schedule/lack of alternative payment methods. Other things like slow bug fixing.... for example im sure a few of the random_random_xxx_name_01 names are still present in release. Which have been known for over 5 months are still present. Other things like LAG and lack of communication add to this.
3. Promised key items which were meant to be in 'release' aren't present. Mektoub, Guild Outpost management/wars. These were part of 5 defining features that SoR was always advertised as being. Its no good promising them months after release as in a way customers have been tricked into buying a product.
4. Ultimately small community, from people i know in release it is estimated that total subscription to ryzom is around 2000 people (across the world), being split across 4 servers. Estimating that subscriber base for each server is about 500-ish people. This leads to insecurity about ones characters future, for example if ryzom went the way of horizons because of a too small community that would ultimately affect service/lag/updates and could mean that all your characters advancement be wasted when the game dies 6 months down the line.
5. Finally for me personally i beta tested SoR from 2.3 closed beta. back in january until the end of beta testing. I was in closed 2.3 all the way to the end. I have seen many new faces and nearly all of them leave through discontent/boredom. Even the webmaster of the main english fansite left. For me seeing so many people percentage wise leave the game and not stick with it was alarming and ultimately put me off. There was nothing to hold them playing for longer than 2 months in most cases because without content it was just grinding for grinding sake. That was beta so it could be excused because it was beta but now you are at release and have hardly no content in your gam. SoR has stated that it had 180000 beta testers subscribe over the period... now i want to know how they come with that figure because if it is true then that means about 98% of the people who tried SoR didn't buy it. Doesn't instill confidence does it?. In all honesty i believe that those figures like most things about MMORPGS are hype.
There are many redeeming qualities about the game and in all honesty if you asked me if you should try the game 4 months ago i would've said yes do. I still do in some ways, if you have 50 bucks spare then sure give it a try it kept me entertained for 6 months it probably will with you too. If money is tight then perhaps you should wait until you can trial the game.
At one point i believed in ryzom's potential... what it could be. I always accepted what would be in ryzom in its future. Eventually as a beta tester you have to stop listening to hyped up future plans and see the current work achieved on a game, if in your heart you see that the game during beta has been developing slow (at its fastest developing time) then you should accept you wont feel happy with the game when it releases. Especially if said game delays beta testing 3 months but you believe those 3 months were pretty much wasted on focus beta testing which should have been done back in closed beta. Tweaking exp for example which pretty much took up 4 weeks worth of time (33.3% of the extension) and even now it is severly nerfed.
Well as i said try it and decide for yourself, dont believe hype, dont believe ratings as they can easily be fixed. If you got money to spare try it... it most likely will blow you away for a good 3 months.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European
Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
[quote] high rating for SoR as "misleading" or possible "propaganda"[/quote]
1) the rating is *misleading*
2) an all-positive comment may possibly be *propaganda*
3) how could a rating be *misleading* and possibly *propaganda*
Statement 3) is trying to dig up a flaw in statement 1), relate it to statement 2), make you think that statement 2) is a flaw too.
That's what I am thinking.
Wrong words used? hehe...prolly be wrong sentences, or wrong grammar, or wrong spelling or wrong punctuation...keep digging them up wont help to unjustify this;
2) an all-positive comment may possibly be sorta *propaganda* AD
2) an all-positive comment may possibly be *propaganda*
3) how could a rating be *misleading* and possibly *propaganda*
Statement 3) is trying to dig up a flaw in statement 1), relate it to statement 2), make you think that statement 2) is a flaw too.
That's what I am thinking.
2) an all-positive comment may possibly be sorta *propaganda* AD
basically you are saying that nothing is perfect and if a user says:
"My Review of RYzom" and posts 40 bullet points all positives then its got to be biased. Because nothing is perfect and the author is leaving out the negatives as propaganda.... totall agree.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European
Truly Loved: World of Warcraft