Things like this only happen in America. When will american judges grow some balls and stop pathetic lawsuits like this even making a court room. And why NCSOFT? Why not start with blizzard?
Agreed
To answer the question they go against NCSOFT first to target a big name MMO maker thats foriegn so they can then get a case law for a fight against blizzard. Filing the case in texas is a smart move legally speaking as most texas judges are racist as all hell and will rule in favor of worlds just becuase they are a US company and NCSOFT is foriegn. I dare you to go to texas and ask 10 people in east texas what they think of Koreans and they will say they need to all be killed. Its simple stacking the deck and with the case law of a win against NCSOFT they will have a much easier time of sueing an american based company like blizzard.
OMFG Yall have to read worlds.com about us page, it seems they been setting up this whole moving in virtual space via an avatar for awhile, http://www.worlds.com/aboutus/index.html
This is not an indictment of the US legal system (which is heavily flawed). This is a suit before the US Patent and Trademark Office. Administrative law courts are an entirely different animal from what you think of as the court system. The US Constitution (and not in an amendment) says that the US shall issue patents. Patents basically only last for 17 years (or less). This isn't copyright law, which thanks to Bob Dylan and Disney has been pushed into the realm of 150 years. All that happens in a case like this is MMO software makers would have to pay royalties to Worlds. It's like the ladies who wrote "Happy Birthday' (copyright, not a patent) and people have to pay them money to use it in their film or program. The patent does NOT prevent anyone else from selling that product...only from doing so for free. There is nothing ridiculous about this case being brought. When the facts are known and the decision is handed down (which may go to the Supreme Court if it's adverse to NCSoft) then you can start talking about ridiculousness and greed. We don't know anything factual yet. Patent infringement is often fairly clear cut, unlike other elements of the law which get a lot of media attention.
Believe me, if you'd worked hard to create something and gone through the lengthy, annoying, and expensive (in foreign markets) patent process, you'd expect your work to be protected. Then again, 95% of the people who read this are probably downloading songs or games that somebody else wrote, so I suppose none of you care.
Believe me, I work on software development, and the least thing I want is someone copying it and not paying. I need to pay my staff, my suppliers. I can starve, the baby of my secretary cannot. I am digging my own pockets to keep her paid, even during this financial crisis.
That said, these kind of patent and copyright things are absurd. So much so, many of my mates have long abandoned US as a country of origin, and moved office to another country, where we/they can focus on software development, rather than labelling and ligitation. Many companies also abandon US as a market, b/c of the ridiculously unrealistic legal system, which does not correspond to realism of business.
Luckily, the world outside flourish, and there is so much business opportunity outside that we never need to look back at home. I have left home for so many years, I forgot the road back when I went back to visit grandpa. How sad, but, I miss home less and less.
What exactly goes wrong with this patent and related things, is that its detached itself from reality. Instead of protecting the developers, it encourage the rise of a class who manipulate the wording, the text of the law and bleed the honest hard working developers. I can make the best software on earth, but I need to pay twice the cost to label and text and document my product, to avoid falling into these stupid legal traps. And those who charge you for the legal services are precisely the same bunch who will sue anyone else not using their services. Its like a mafia, hire them, or them hit you.
The same goes for investment banking, instead of channeling funds to support investment, it goes speculative, and on derivatives that has nothing to do with production. They screw up the cost of funds, totally and royally screw up manufactueres who want to secure funds for real hardware investment. It makes it more profitable to fiddle around with investment "tricks", and those who honestly go thru the low steady rate of return fix asset investment path will ended up being bought and torn apart and sold by those financial guys.
Wonder why US economic power if going down the drain? If you seriously want to make something, not making trouble for others, go abroad. This is the last advice from my professor when I pick up my testimont years ago. He said "You can make a lot of money in US, but not by making things, you make money by leech those who tried to make things".
Will US wake up some day? I dunno. Too many ppl having been making a living based on manipulation of rules, words. It would be hard to whip them back into production line and accept a 2-3% rate of return from hard work making dolls and chairs. Gone were the days when people understand that steady growth is a rule, since leeching on the rest can easily generate double digit growth. But when those leeched woke up and realise there are countries where they can get rid of the leecher, when these hardworking ones moved abroad or turn leechers, who will the leechers leech?
I dunno and frankly I care less and less. Does it matter if I care?
It just came to me, MMO's aren't the only games that will suffer.
Virtually every FPS-game since Quake (Doom?) have 3D environment and a chat in an online environment. Then again, Quake is dated back to 1990's and their patent application was dated 2000 something.
It just came to me, MMO's aren't the only games that will suffer. Virtually every FPS-game since Quake (Doom?) have 3D environment and a chat in an online environment. Then again, Quake is dated back to 1990's and their patent application was dated 2000 something.
That's sort of the point and why the patent is ridiculuous on the face of it. They aren't trying to patent a technology, they are trying defend a patent on an "idea". The claim that they somehow "invented" the idea of a multi-user 3D space is ridiculuous, the idea was present from the earliest days of multi-user computer games - but the technology to implement it wasn't.
Originally posted by Orthedos Originally posted by Ariel This is not an indictment of the US legal system (which is heavily flawed). This is a suit before the US Patent and Trademark Office. Administrative law courts are an entirely different animal from what you think of as the court system. The US Constitution (and not in an amendment) says that the US shall issue patents. Patents basically only last for 17 years (or less). This isn't copyright law, which thanks to Bob Dylan and Disney has been pushed into the realm of 150 years. All that happens in a case like this is MMO software makers would have to pay royalties to Worlds. It's like the ladies who wrote "Happy Birthday' (copyright, not a patent) and people have to pay them money to use it in their film or program. The patent does NOT prevent anyone else from selling that product...only from doing so for free. There is nothing ridiculous about this case being brought. When the facts are known and the decision is handed down (which may go to the Supreme Court if it's adverse to NCSoft) then you can start talking about ridiculousness and greed. We don't know anything factual yet. Patent infringement is often fairly clear cut, unlike other elements of the law which get a lot of media attention.
Believe me, if you'd worked hard to create something and gone through the lengthy, annoying, and expensive (in foreign markets) patent process, you'd expect your work to be protected. Then again, 95% of the people who read this are probably downloading songs or games that somebody else wrote, so I suppose none of you care.
Believe me, I work on software development, and the least thing I want is someone copying it and not paying. I need to pay my staff, my suppliers. I can starve, the baby of my secretary cannot. I am digging my own pockets to keep her paid, even during this financial crisis. That said, these kind of patent and copyright things are absurd. So much so, many of my mates have long abandoned US as a country of origin, and moved office to another country, where we/they can focus on software development, rather than labelling and ligitation. Many companies also abandon US as a market, b/c of the ridiculously unrealistic legal system, which does not correspond to realism of business. Luckily, the world outside flourish, and there is so much business opportunity outside that we never need to look back at home. I have left home for so many years, I forgot the road back when I went back to visit grandpa. How sad, but, I miss home less and less. What exactly goes wrong with this patent and related things, is that its detached itself from reality. Instead of protecting the developers, it encourage the rise of a class who manipulate the wording, the text of the law and bleed the honest hard working developers. I can make the best software on earth, but I need to pay twice the cost to label and text and document my product, to avoid falling into these stupid legal traps. And those who charge you for the legal services are precisely the same bunch who will sue anyone else not using their services. Its like a mafia, hire them, or them hit you. The same goes for investment banking, instead of channeling funds to support investment, it goes speculative, and on derivatives that has nothing to do with production. They screw up the cost of funds, totally and royally screw up manufactueres who want to secure funds for real hardware investment. It makes it more profitable to fiddle around with investment "tricks", and those who honestly go thru the low steady rate of return fix asset investment path will ended up being bought and torn apart and sold by those financial guys. Wonder why US economic power if going down the drain? If you seriously want to make something, not making trouble for others, go abroad. This is the last advice from my professor when I pick up my testimont years ago. He said "You can make a lot of money in US, but not by making things, you make money by leech those who tried to make things". Will US wake up some day? I dunno. Too many ppl having been making a living based on manipulation of rules, words. It would be hard to whip them back into production line and accept a 2-3% rate of return from hard work making dolls and chairs. Gone were the days when people understand that steady growth is a rule, since leeching on the rest can easily generate double digit growth. But when those leeched woke up and realise there are countries where they can get rid of the leecher, when these hardworking ones moved abroad or turn leechers, who will the leechers leech? I dunno and frankly I care less and less. Does it matter if I care?
I dont know how many others actually took the time to read it, but I for one applaud you for a well written, interesting post.
Originally posted by ericbelser Originally posted by Pelaaja It just came to me, MMO's aren't the only games that will suffer. Virtually every FPS-game since Quake (Doom?) have 3D environment and a chat in an online environment. Then again, Quake is dated back to 1990's and their patent application was dated 2000 something.
That's sort of the point and why the patent is ridiculuous on the face of it. They aren't trying to patent a technology, they are trying defend a patent on an "idea". The claim that they somehow "invented" the idea of a multi-user 3D space is ridiculuous, the idea was present from the earliest days of multi-user computer games - but the technology to implement it wasn't.
Leonardo DaVinci conceived the idea behind the fax machine, the helicopter and modern flight.
This lawsuit is equivalent to someone in the current year of 2009, going and filling out paperwork to secure that THEY ALONE had the idea of flight although the Wright Brothers made it happen and although multiple companies had employed it.
Seriously, do you think anyone pays royalties to DaVincis family or to the Wright brothers decendants, much less some third party company that hasnt actually produced anything themselves?
Why did someone give them a patent on something so vague and wide reaching?
And why did the judge just not dismiss this case?
I thought they made it harder to bring frivolous lawsuits to court.
Well if you look at the information on the Patent Arcade site (Link Here) it states that the patent has priority back to Nov 1996 (not sure how they get that date though).
A lot of people seem to be focusing on disputing whether the patent is valid. That's not what this is about since the patent has already been passed. It's about whether or not NCSoft has violated that patent. Yes it sucks that the patent even passed in the first place and I question the approval process, but the fact is, they do have a patent (actually 2) in place.
Also, if NCSoft loses this battle it makes any future lawsuits by Worlds.com that much more difficult to contest.
Well if you look at the information on the Patent Arcade site (Link Here) it states that the patent has priority back to Nov 1996 (not sure how they get that date though). A lot of people seem to be focusing on disputing whether the patent is valid. That's not what this is about since the patent has already been passed. It's about whether or not NCSoft has violated that patent.
I can honestly say that you apparantly don't understand something about patent law. The Patent Trolls archived blog in the following link is actually about this case...
Its worth a read since this guy most definitely has "prior art" over any claim of worlds.com and to be more specific to your claim here is a quote: (this is from a previous case where Randy Farmer presented evidence for someone in a similar situation)
"The Danger of Suing with Bad Patents: Reexamination
Losing the suit wasn't the end of the bad results for Forterra.
Almost one year later, on October 7th, 2008 the US Patent Office issued a Reexamination Certificate, numbered 95/000,155 that invalidates all of the claims in question - gutting the patent for use in future lawsuits against 3D chat systems. "
The patent office should have never given the patent because what they did was... Took systems other people designed over a decade earlier and some of them even date back into the 60's... then claimed they created them.
Then at some point they start filing lawsuits hoping people will roll over and bankroll them enough to go after a big fish like say Blizzard.
The point being you take guys like Randy Farmer or Chip Morningstar who have all the documentation of "prior art". Then you go to the patent office and have them do a re-examination.
The most obvious issue is the patent office should be doing a bit more before it hands out these patents.. since there is probably a rather high volume of patents... covering someone elses tech.
Oh so in short..
Yes whether the patent is valid or not is the MAIN issue here. Regardless of whether the 'prior art" was patented or not... there should be legal consequences greater than "gutting this patent". This was blatant theft of someone elses work. They then had the balls to file for a patent on someone elses work and eventually file a lawsuit.
*edited to add* Its perfect irony... You put claim on someone elses work and patent it. Which pretty much means you stole it. Then you sue someone for "stealing your work"....
Originally posted by Antarious Originally posted by Sixpax Well if you look at the information on the Patent Arcade site (Link Here) it states that the patent has priority back to Nov 1996 (not sure how they get that date though). A lot of people seem to be focusing on disputing whether the patent is valid. That's not what this is about since the patent has already been passed. It's about whether or not NCSoft has violated that patent.
I can honestly say that you apparantly don't understand something about patent law. The Patent Trolls archived blog in the following link is actually about this case... http://thefarmers.org/Habitat/2008/12/
Its worth a read since this guy most definitely has "prior art" over any claim of worlds.com and to be more specific to your claim here is a quote: (this is from a previous case where Randy Farmer presented evidence for someone in a similar situation)
"The Danger of Suing with Bad Patents: Reexamination
Losing the suit wasn't the end of the bad results for Forterra. Almost one year later, on October 7th, 2008 the US Patent Office issued a Reexamination Certificate, numbered 95/000,155 that invalidates all of the claims in question - gutting the patent for use in future lawsuits against 3D chat systems. "
The patent office should have never given the patent because what they did was... Took systems other people designed over a decade earlier and some of them even date back into the 60's... then claimed they created them.
Then at some point they start filing lawsuits hoping people will roll over and bankroll them enough to go after a big fish like say Blizzard.
The point being you take guys like Randy Farmer or Chip Morningstar who have all the documentation of "prior art". Then you go to the patent office and have them do a re-examination.
The most obvious issue is the patent office should be doing a bit more before it hands out these patents.. since there is probably a rather high volume of patents... covering someone elses tech.
Oh so in short..
Yes whether the patent is valid or not is the MAIN issue here. Regardless of whether the 'prior art" was patented or not... there should be legal consequences greater than "gutting this patent". This was blatant theft of someone elses work. They then had the balls to file for a patent on someone elses work and eventually file a lawsuit. *edited to add* Its perfect irony... You put claim on someone elses work and patent it. Which pretty much means you stole it. Then you sue someone for "stealing your work"....
All I can say is, and its the most hated word on this forum... WOW
Well if you look at the information on the Patent Arcade site (Link Here) it states that the patent has priority back to Nov 1996 (not sure how they get that date though). A lot of people seem to be focusing on disputing whether the patent is valid. That's not what this is about since the patent has already been passed. It's about whether or not NCSoft has violated that patent.
I can honestly say that you apparantly don't understand something about patent law. The Patent Trolls archived blog in the following link is actually about this case...
No where did I say the patent couldn't be overturned, but that's a separate case from this one against NCSoft and one that every MMORPG maker in the U.S. needs to be pursuing now rather than wait to see how Worlds.com does against NCSoft. You'll notice in the post you linked that reversing the Patent was a separate (and much later) process than the original case. Notice the sentence where it says: "The lawsuit was dead, but the patent reexamination was still underway."
Also, the gentleman won his case because he had proof that he used the concept prior to when the patent had priority, which in this particular case is Nov of 1996 (again I'm not sure how Patent Arcade got that date). Was NCSoft making MMORPG's prior to that date? Not that I found. Meridian 59 was out before then (and that to me is the key to overturning the patent), but does that help NCSoft with this lawsuit?
Well if you look at the information on the Patent Arcade site (Link Here) it states that the patent has priority back to Nov 1996 (not sure how they get that date though). A lot of people seem to be focusing on disputing whether the patent is valid. That's not what this is about since the patent has already been passed. It's about whether or not NCSoft has violated that patent.
I can honestly say that you apparantly don't understand something about patent law. The Patent Trolls archived blog in the following link is actually about this case...
Its worth a read since this guy most definitely has "prior art" over any claim of worlds.com and to be more specific to your claim here is a quote: (this is from a previous case where Randy Farmer presented evidence for someone in a similar situation)
"The Danger of Suing with Bad Patents: Reexamination
Losing the suit wasn't the end of the bad results for Forterra.
Almost one year later, on October 7th, 2008 the US Patent Office issued a Reexamination Certificate, numbered 95/000,155 that invalidates all of the claims in question - gutting the patent for use in future lawsuits against 3D chat systems. "
The patent office should have never given the patent because what they did was... Took systems other people designed over a decade earlier and some of them even date back into the 60's... then claimed they created them.
Then at some point they start filing lawsuits hoping people will roll over and bankroll them enough to go after a big fish like say Blizzard.
The point being you take guys like Randy Farmer or Chip Morningstar who have all the documentation of "prior art". Then you go to the patent office and have them do a re-examination.
The most obvious issue is the patent office should be doing a bit more before it hands out these patents.. since there is probably a rather high volume of patents... covering someone elses tech.
Oh so in short..
Yes whether the patent is valid or not is the MAIN issue here. Regardless of whether the 'prior art" was patented or not... there should be legal consequences greater than "gutting this patent". This was blatant theft of someone elses work. They then had the balls to file for a patent on someone elses work and eventually file a lawsuit.
*edited to add* Its perfect irony... You put claim on someone elses work and patent it. Which pretty much means you stole it. Then you sue someone for "stealing your work"....
Worlds.com purchased those two patents so technically it does belong to them. The problem was that those patents were never meant to be interpreted by their original creators the way worlds.com is using them.
Well if you look at the information on the Patent Arcade site (Link Here) it states that the patent has priority back to Nov 1996 (not sure how they get that date though). A lot of people seem to be focusing on disputing whether the patent is valid. That's not what this is about since the patent has already been passed. It's about whether or not NCSoft has violated that patent.
I can honestly say that you apparantly don't understand something about patent law. The Patent Trolls archived blog in the following link is actually about this case...
No where did I say the patent couldn't be overturned, but that's a separate case from this one against NCSoft and one that every MMORPG maker in the U.S. needs to be pursuing now rather than wait to see how Worlds.com does against NCSoft. You'll notice in the post you linked that reversing the Patent was a separate (and much later) process than the original case. Notice the sentence where it says: "The lawsuit was dead, but the patent reexamination was still underway."
Also, the gentleman won his case because he had proof that he used the concept prior to when the patent had priority, which in this particular case is Nov of 1996 (again I'm not sure how Patent Arcade got that date). Was NCSoft making MMORPG's prior to that date? Not that I found. Meridian 59 was out before then (and that to me is the key to overturning the patent), but does that help NCSoft with this lawsuit?
I would like to think it does, because if you think about it, if the technology was employed before hand it means that Worlds.com infact did not invent anything making the case void, but again this is me I have no knowledge of how the US court system works.
Well if you look at the information on the Patent Arcade site (Link Here) it states that the patent has priority back to Nov 1996 (not sure how they get that date though). A lot of people seem to be focusing on disputing whether the patent is valid. That's not what this is about since the patent has already been passed. It's about whether or not NCSoft has violated that patent.
I can honestly say that you apparantly don't understand something about patent law. The Patent Trolls archived blog in the following link is actually about this case...
Its worth a read since this guy most definitely has "prior art" over any claim of worlds.com and to be more specific to your claim here is a quote: (this is from a previous case where Randy Farmer presented evidence for someone in a similar situation)
"The Danger of Suing with Bad Patents: Reexamination
Losing the suit wasn't the end of the bad results for Forterra.
Almost one year later, on October 7th, 2008 the US Patent Office issued a Reexamination Certificate, numbered 95/000,155 that invalidates all of the claims in question - gutting the patent for use in future lawsuits against 3D chat systems. "
The patent office should have never given the patent because what they did was... Took systems other people designed over a decade earlier and some of them even date back into the 60's... then claimed they created them.
Then at some point they start filing lawsuits hoping people will roll over and bankroll them enough to go after a big fish like say Blizzard.
The point being you take guys like Randy Farmer or Chip Morningstar who have all the documentation of "prior art". Then you go to the patent office and have them do a re-examination.
The most obvious issue is the patent office should be doing a bit more before it hands out these patents.. since there is probably a rather high volume of patents... covering someone elses tech.
Oh so in short..
Yes whether the patent is valid or not is the MAIN issue here. Regardless of whether the 'prior art" was patented or not... there should be legal consequences greater than "gutting this patent". This was blatant theft of someone elses work. They then had the balls to file for a patent on someone elses work and eventually file a lawsuit.
*edited to add* Its perfect irony... You put claim on someone elses work and patent it. Which pretty much means you stole it. Then you sue someone for "stealing your work"....
Worlds.com purchased those two patents so technically it does belong to them. The problem was that those patents were never meant to be interpreted by their original creators the way worlds.com is using them.
I think you are missing the point because they were given a patent it does not mean they invented it, the technology and ideas were in place and working way before worlds.com filled it, and it dates back to the original MUDs, the patents belong to them, the idea and the right to claim royalties on them does not, the error was made by the US patent system and should be corrected by them and just shows the US patent system does not go to full lengths or employs specialists on the subject to review the patent requests.
Ultimately is gonna be a case of wether the courts are gonna let the US economy suffer a bit more so these guys can get a couple of mil in their pockets, because most certainly companies will move offices from the US if worlds.com wins to cut on having to pay these scammers for every mmo release and god knows to what lenghts they are willing to go, FPS with chat systems etc...
They won't get anything out of this except for a lof of negative publicity. Their "patent" is the underlying model for every MMO in existence. If they can sue NCsoft, then they can sue everyone else for the same infringement.
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They won't get anything out of this except for a lof of negative publicity. Their "patent" is the underlying model for every MMO in existence. If they can sue NCsoft, then they can sue everyone else for the same infringement.
I think that's the idea. They already stated they will be going after Blizzard and the makers of Second Life.
Well if you look at the information on the Patent Arcade site (Link Here) it states that the patent has priority back to Nov 1996 (not sure how they get that date though). A lot of people seem to be focusing on disputing whether the patent is valid. That's not what this is about since the patent has already been passed. It's about whether or not NCSoft has violated that patent.
I can honestly say that you apparantly don't understand something about patent law. The Patent Trolls archived blog in the following link is actually about this case...
Its worth a read since this guy most definitely has "prior art" over any claim of worlds.com and to be more specific to your claim here is a quote: (this is from a previous case where Randy Farmer presented evidence for someone in a similar situation)
"The Danger of Suing with Bad Patents: Reexamination
Losing the suit wasn't the end of the bad results for Forterra.
Almost one year later, on October 7th, 2008 the US Patent Office issued a Reexamination Certificate, numbered 95/000,155 that invalidates all of the claims in question - gutting the patent for use in future lawsuits against 3D chat systems. "
The patent office should have never given the patent because what they did was... Took systems other people designed over a decade earlier and some of them even date back into the 60's... then claimed they created them.
Then at some point they start filing lawsuits hoping people will roll over and bankroll them enough to go after a big fish like say Blizzard.
The point being you take guys like Randy Farmer or Chip Morningstar who have all the documentation of "prior art". Then you go to the patent office and have them do a re-examination.
The most obvious issue is the patent office should be doing a bit more before it hands out these patents.. since there is probably a rather high volume of patents... covering someone elses tech.
Oh so in short..
Yes whether the patent is valid or not is the MAIN issue here. Regardless of whether the 'prior art" was patented or not... there should be legal consequences greater than "gutting this patent". This was blatant theft of someone elses work. They then had the balls to file for a patent on someone elses work and eventually file a lawsuit.
*edited to add* Its perfect irony... You put claim on someone elses work and patent it. Which pretty much means you stole it. Then you sue someone for "stealing your work"....
Worlds.com purchased those two patents so technically it does belong to them. The problem was that those patents were never meant to be interpreted by their original creators the way worlds.com is using them.
I think you are missing the point because they were given a patent it does not mean they invented it, the technology and ideas were in place and working way before worlds.com filled it, and it dates back to the original MUDs, the patents belong to them, the idea and the right to claim royalties on them does not, the error was made by the US patent system and should be corrected by them and just shows the US patent system does not go to full lengths or employs specialists on the subject to review the patent requests.
Ultimately is gonna be a case of wether the courts are gonna let the US economy suffer a bit more so these guys can get a couple of mil in their pockets, because most certainly companies will move offices from the US if worlds.com wins to cut on having to pay these scammers for every mmo release and god knows to what lenghts they are willing to go, FPS with chat systems etc...
Sorry for the double post.
You claim that Worlds.com patents that pre-date what we call MMORPG's, and go back to the time of MUDs. So answer me this: If their patents are valid why did they wait until now to cry wolf? UO, and EQ1 were the first popular MMORPG's out, then came Star Wars Galaxie which had the first spot on television for an online game that was not a FPS. Why not step in then? I think they purposly waited for now when the MMORPG genre was at its peak. When the genre was a multi-billion dollar industry. Otherwise they would of stopped it before it even began.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Well if you look at the information on the Patent Arcade site (Link Here) it states that the patent has priority back to Nov 1996 (not sure how they get that date though). A lot of people seem to be focusing on disputing whether the patent is valid. That's not what this is about since the patent has already been passed. It's about whether or not NCSoft has violated that patent.
I can honestly say that you apparantly don't understand something about patent law. The Patent Trolls archived blog in the following link is actually about this case...
Its worth a read since this guy most definitely has "prior art" over any claim of worlds.com and to be more specific to your claim here is a quote: (this is from a previous case where Randy Farmer presented evidence for someone in a similar situation)
"The Danger of Suing with Bad Patents: Reexamination
Losing the suit wasn't the end of the bad results for Forterra.
Almost one year later, on October 7th, 2008 the US Patent Office issued a Reexamination Certificate, numbered 95/000,155 that invalidates all of the claims in question - gutting the patent for use in future lawsuits against 3D chat systems. "
The patent office should have never given the patent because what they did was... Took systems other people designed over a decade earlier and some of them even date back into the 60's... then claimed they created them.
Then at some point they start filing lawsuits hoping people will roll over and bankroll them enough to go after a big fish like say Blizzard.
The point being you take guys like Randy Farmer or Chip Morningstar who have all the documentation of "prior art". Then you go to the patent office and have them do a re-examination.
The most obvious issue is the patent office should be doing a bit more before it hands out these patents.. since there is probably a rather high volume of patents... covering someone elses tech.
Oh so in short..
Yes whether the patent is valid or not is the MAIN issue here. Regardless of whether the 'prior art" was patented or not... there should be legal consequences greater than "gutting this patent". This was blatant theft of someone elses work. They then had the balls to file for a patent on someone elses work and eventually file a lawsuit.
*edited to add* Its perfect irony... You put claim on someone elses work and patent it. Which pretty much means you stole it. Then you sue someone for "stealing your work"....
Worlds.com purchased those two patents so technically it does belong to them. The problem was that those patents were never meant to be interpreted by their original creators the way worlds.com is using them.
I think you are missing the point because they were given a patent it does not mean they invented it, the technology and ideas were in place and working way before worlds.com filled it, and it dates back to the original MUDs, the patents belong to them, the idea and the right to claim royalties on them does not, the error was made by the US patent system and should be corrected by them and just shows the US patent system does not go to full lengths or employs specialists on the subject to review the patent requests.
Ultimately is gonna be a case of wether the courts are gonna let the US economy suffer a bit more so these guys can get a couple of mil in their pockets, because most certainly companies will move offices from the US if worlds.com wins to cut on having to pay these scammers for every mmo release and god knows to what lenghts they are willing to go, FPS with chat systems etc...
Sorry for the double post.
You claim that Worlds.com patents that pre-date what we call MMORPG's, and go back to the time of MUDs. So answer me this: If their patents are valid why did they wait until now to cry wolf? UO, and EQ1 were the first popular MMORPG's out, then came Star Wars Galaxie which had the first spot on television for an online game that was not a FPS. Why not step in then? I think they purposly waited for now when the MMORPG genre was at its peak. When the genre was a multi-billion dollar industry. Otherwise they would of stopped it before it even began.
I think you misunderstood my post, I dont think they have to right to anything cause much longer before Worlds.com there were MUDS, UO etc... I dont claim they pre-date anything, I think worlds.com are scammers.
You claim that Worlds.com patents that pre-date what we call MMORPG's, and go back to the time of MUDs. So answer me this: If their patents are valid why did they wait until now to cry wolf? UO, and EQ1 were the first popular MMORPG's out, then came Star Wars Galaxie which had the first spot on television for an online game that was not a FPS. Why not step in then? I think they purposly waited for now when the MMORPG genre was at its peak. When the genre was a multi-billion dollar industry. Otherwise they would of stopped it before it even began.
The reason they waited until now is because the patent wasnt issued until 2007. It probably took until now to get their legal and bs charges together.
"It is better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees,"
This will be a cute excercise. People underestimate Ncsoft so much. It's a global, multi-national, multi-billion dollar corporation. I garauntee you that all the other mega game corporations are preparing cases of their own to crush these faggots before they gain any steam.
These guys are hitting a hornets nest....only instead of hornets it's a bunch of cyborg-ninja-pirates. Us gamers won't stand for little fuckers like this bringing down our games. Whether they be the FPS with online capabilities to the hardcore RPG's. Of course that's assuming they even get that far.
All NCsoft does is make MMO's of every shape and size. So it's a pretty safe guess that they have some of the best lawyers around that specialize in that field. Bottom line here is that you can't patent a broad idea like this. And that's exactly what these guys think they've done.
This is like getting a patent on air. The vague nature of these patents could even extend to such 'virtual worlds' as chat rooms or myspace or facebook. It's completely insane that these patents even went through in the first place.
Comments
Agreed
To answer the question they go against NCSOFT first to target a big name MMO maker thats foriegn so they can then get a case law for a fight against blizzard. Filing the case in texas is a smart move legally speaking as most texas judges are racist as all hell and will rule in favor of worlds just becuase they are a US company and NCSOFT is foriegn. I dare you to go to texas and ask 10 people in east texas what they think of Koreans and they will say they need to all be killed. Its simple stacking the deck and with the case law of a win against NCSOFT they will have a much easier time of sueing an american based company like blizzard.
http://www.massively.com/tag/worlds.com-vs-ncsoft/
They moved it to Northern California.
OMFG Yall have to read worlds.com about us page, it seems they been setting up this whole moving in virtual space via an avatar for awhile, http://www.worlds.com/aboutus/index.html
playing eq2 and two worlds
Oh man, reading further into this article there are people whom sued for ingame virtual items in 2nd life and something called habbo or something, I'll link the whole story. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/19/AR2008081902706.html
playing eq2 and two worlds
Here is something a little odd about worlds.com, there buisness partners are the band aerosmith, LOL, WTF
playing eq2 and two worlds
Believe me, I work on software development, and the least thing I want is someone copying it and not paying. I need to pay my staff, my suppliers. I can starve, the baby of my secretary cannot. I am digging my own pockets to keep her paid, even during this financial crisis.
That said, these kind of patent and copyright things are absurd. So much so, many of my mates have long abandoned US as a country of origin, and moved office to another country, where we/they can focus on software development, rather than labelling and ligitation. Many companies also abandon US as a market, b/c of the ridiculously unrealistic legal system, which does not correspond to realism of business.
Luckily, the world outside flourish, and there is so much business opportunity outside that we never need to look back at home. I have left home for so many years, I forgot the road back when I went back to visit grandpa. How sad, but, I miss home less and less.
What exactly goes wrong with this patent and related things, is that its detached itself from reality. Instead of protecting the developers, it encourage the rise of a class who manipulate the wording, the text of the law and bleed the honest hard working developers. I can make the best software on earth, but I need to pay twice the cost to label and text and document my product, to avoid falling into these stupid legal traps. And those who charge you for the legal services are precisely the same bunch who will sue anyone else not using their services. Its like a mafia, hire them, or them hit you.
The same goes for investment banking, instead of channeling funds to support investment, it goes speculative, and on derivatives that has nothing to do with production. They screw up the cost of funds, totally and royally screw up manufactueres who want to secure funds for real hardware investment. It makes it more profitable to fiddle around with investment "tricks", and those who honestly go thru the low steady rate of return fix asset investment path will ended up being bought and torn apart and sold by those financial guys.
Wonder why US economic power if going down the drain? If you seriously want to make something, not making trouble for others, go abroad. This is the last advice from my professor when I pick up my testimont years ago. He said "You can make a lot of money in US, but not by making things, you make money by leech those who tried to make things".
Will US wake up some day? I dunno. Too many ppl having been making a living based on manipulation of rules, words. It would be hard to whip them back into production line and accept a 2-3% rate of return from hard work making dolls and chairs. Gone were the days when people understand that steady growth is a rule, since leeching on the rest can easily generate double digit growth. But when those leeched woke up and realise there are countries where they can get rid of the leecher, when these hardworking ones moved abroad or turn leechers, who will the leechers leech?
I dunno and frankly I care less and less. Does it matter if I care?
Here is another look at what the patent states from another website, this is something I cant stop reading about now and I just found out about this horse crap. http://tech.gameshogun.ws/technews/worlds-com-vs-virtual-worlds
playing eq2 and two worlds
It just came to me, MMO's aren't the only games that will suffer.
Virtually every FPS-game since Quake (Doom?) have 3D environment and a chat in an online environment. Then again, Quake is dated back to 1990's and their patent application was dated 2000 something.
That's sort of the point and why the patent is ridiculuous on the face of it. They aren't trying to patent a technology, they are trying defend a patent on an "idea". The claim that they somehow "invented" the idea of a multi-user 3D space is ridiculuous, the idea was present from the earliest days of multi-user computer games - but the technology to implement it wasn't.
Believe me, I work on software development, and the least thing I want is someone copying it and not paying. I need to pay my staff, my suppliers. I can starve, the baby of my secretary cannot. I am digging my own pockets to keep her paid, even during this financial crisis.
That said, these kind of patent and copyright things are absurd. So much so, many of my mates have long abandoned US as a country of origin, and moved office to another country, where we/they can focus on software development, rather than labelling and ligitation. Many companies also abandon US as a market, b/c of the ridiculously unrealistic legal system, which does not correspond to realism of business.
Luckily, the world outside flourish, and there is so much business opportunity outside that we never need to look back at home. I have left home for so many years, I forgot the road back when I went back to visit grandpa. How sad, but, I miss home less and less.
What exactly goes wrong with this patent and related things, is that its detached itself from reality. Instead of protecting the developers, it encourage the rise of a class who manipulate the wording, the text of the law and bleed the honest hard working developers. I can make the best software on earth, but I need to pay twice the cost to label and text and document my product, to avoid falling into these stupid legal traps. And those who charge you for the legal services are precisely the same bunch who will sue anyone else not using their services. Its like a mafia, hire them, or them hit you.
The same goes for investment banking, instead of channeling funds to support investment, it goes speculative, and on derivatives that has nothing to do with production. They screw up the cost of funds, totally and royally screw up manufactueres who want to secure funds for real hardware investment. It makes it more profitable to fiddle around with investment "tricks", and those who honestly go thru the low steady rate of return fix asset investment path will ended up being bought and torn apart and sold by those financial guys.
Wonder why US economic power if going down the drain? If you seriously want to make something, not making trouble for others, go abroad. This is the last advice from my professor when I pick up my testimont years ago. He said "You can make a lot of money in US, but not by making things, you make money by leech those who tried to make things".
Will US wake up some day? I dunno. Too many ppl having been making a living based on manipulation of rules, words. It would be hard to whip them back into production line and accept a 2-3% rate of return from hard work making dolls and chairs. Gone were the days when people understand that steady growth is a rule, since leeching on the rest can easily generate double digit growth. But when those leeched woke up and realise there are countries where they can get rid of the leecher, when these hardworking ones moved abroad or turn leechers, who will the leechers leech?
I dunno and frankly I care less and less. Does it matter if I care?
I dont know how many others actually took the time to read it, but I for one applaud you for a well written, interesting post.
That's sort of the point and why the patent is ridiculuous on the face of it. They aren't trying to patent a technology, they are trying defend a patent on an "idea". The claim that they somehow "invented" the idea of a multi-user 3D space is ridiculuous, the idea was present from the earliest days of multi-user computer games - but the technology to implement it wasn't.
Leonardo DaVinci conceived the idea behind the fax machine, the helicopter and modern flight.
This lawsuit is equivalent to someone in the current year of 2009, going and filling out paperwork to secure that THEY ALONE had the idea of flight although the Wright Brothers made it happen and although multiple companies had employed it.
Seriously, do you think anyone pays royalties to DaVincis family or to the Wright brothers decendants, much less some third party company that hasnt actually produced anything themselves?
Why did someone give them a patent on something so vague and wide reaching?
And why did the judge just not dismiss this case?
I thought they made it harder to bring frivolous lawsuits to court.
Well if you look at the information on the Patent Arcade site (Link Here) it states that the patent has priority back to Nov 1996 (not sure how they get that date though).
A lot of people seem to be focusing on disputing whether the patent is valid. That's not what this is about since the patent has already been passed. It's about whether or not NCSoft has violated that patent. Yes it sucks that the patent even passed in the first place and I question the approval process, but the fact is, they do have a patent (actually 2) in place.
Also, if NCSoft loses this battle it makes any future lawsuits by Worlds.com that much more difficult to contest.
I can honestly say that you apparantly don't understand something about patent law. The Patent Trolls archived blog in the following link is actually about this case...
http://thefarmers.org/Habitat/2008/12/
Its worth a read since this guy most definitely has "prior art" over any claim of worlds.com and to be more specific to your claim here is a quote: (this is from a previous case where Randy Farmer presented evidence for someone in a similar situation)
"The Danger of Suing with Bad Patents: Reexamination
Losing the suit wasn't the end of the bad results for Forterra.
Almost one year later, on October 7th, 2008 the US Patent Office issued a Reexamination Certificate, numbered 95/000,155 that invalidates all of the claims in question - gutting the patent for use in future lawsuits against 3D chat systems. "
The patent office should have never given the patent because what they did was... Took systems other people designed over a decade earlier and some of them even date back into the 60's... then claimed they created them.
Then at some point they start filing lawsuits hoping people will roll over and bankroll them enough to go after a big fish like say Blizzard.
The point being you take guys like Randy Farmer or Chip Morningstar who have all the documentation of "prior art". Then you go to the patent office and have them do a re-examination.
The most obvious issue is the patent office should be doing a bit more before it hands out these patents.. since there is probably a rather high volume of patents... covering someone elses tech.
Oh so in short..
Yes whether the patent is valid or not is the MAIN issue here. Regardless of whether the 'prior art" was patented or not... there should be legal consequences greater than "gutting this patent". This was blatant theft of someone elses work. They then had the balls to file for a patent on someone elses work and eventually file a lawsuit.
*edited to add* Its perfect irony... You put claim on someone elses work and patent it. Which pretty much means you stole it. Then you sue someone for "stealing your work"....
I can honestly say that you apparantly don't understand something about patent law. The Patent Trolls archived blog in the following link is actually about this case...
http://thefarmers.org/Habitat/2008/12/
Its worth a read since this guy most definitely has "prior art" over any claim of worlds.com and to be more specific to your claim here is a quote: (this is from a previous case where Randy Farmer presented evidence for someone in a similar situation)
"The Danger of Suing with Bad Patents: Reexamination
Losing the suit wasn't the end of the bad results for Forterra.
Almost one year later, on October 7th, 2008 the US Patent Office issued a Reexamination Certificate, numbered 95/000,155 that invalidates all of the claims in question - gutting the patent for use in future lawsuits against 3D chat systems. "
The patent office should have never given the patent because what they did was... Took systems other people designed over a decade earlier and some of them even date back into the 60's... then claimed they created them.
Then at some point they start filing lawsuits hoping people will roll over and bankroll them enough to go after a big fish like say Blizzard.
The point being you take guys like Randy Farmer or Chip Morningstar who have all the documentation of "prior art". Then you go to the patent office and have them do a re-examination.
The most obvious issue is the patent office should be doing a bit more before it hands out these patents.. since there is probably a rather high volume of patents... covering someone elses tech.
Oh so in short..
Yes whether the patent is valid or not is the MAIN issue here. Regardless of whether the 'prior art" was patented or not... there should be legal consequences greater than "gutting this patent". This was blatant theft of someone elses work. They then had the balls to file for a patent on someone elses work and eventually file a lawsuit.
*edited to add* Its perfect irony... You put claim on someone elses work and patent it. Which pretty much means you stole it. Then you sue someone for "stealing your work"....
All I can say is, and its the most hated word on this forum... WOW
I can honestly say that you apparantly don't understand something about patent law. The Patent Trolls archived blog in the following link is actually about this case...
http://thefarmers.org/Habitat/2008/12/
....
No where did I say the patent couldn't be overturned, but that's a separate case from this one against NCSoft and one that every MMORPG maker in the U.S. needs to be pursuing now rather than wait to see how Worlds.com does against NCSoft. You'll notice in the post you linked that reversing the Patent was a separate (and much later) process than the original case. Notice the sentence where it says: "The lawsuit was dead, but the patent reexamination was still underway."
Also, the gentleman won his case because he had proof that he used the concept prior to when the patent had priority, which in this particular case is Nov of 1996 (again I'm not sure how Patent Arcade got that date). Was NCSoft making MMORPG's prior to that date? Not that I found. Meridian 59 was out before then (and that to me is the key to overturning the patent), but does that help NCSoft with this lawsuit?
I can honestly say that you apparantly don't understand something about patent law. The Patent Trolls archived blog in the following link is actually about this case...
http://thefarmers.org/Habitat/2008/12/
Its worth a read since this guy most definitely has "prior art" over any claim of worlds.com and to be more specific to your claim here is a quote: (this is from a previous case where Randy Farmer presented evidence for someone in a similar situation)
"The Danger of Suing with Bad Patents: Reexamination
Losing the suit wasn't the end of the bad results for Forterra.
Almost one year later, on October 7th, 2008 the US Patent Office issued a Reexamination Certificate, numbered 95/000,155 that invalidates all of the claims in question - gutting the patent for use in future lawsuits against 3D chat systems. "
The patent office should have never given the patent because what they did was... Took systems other people designed over a decade earlier and some of them even date back into the 60's... then claimed they created them.
Then at some point they start filing lawsuits hoping people will roll over and bankroll them enough to go after a big fish like say Blizzard.
The point being you take guys like Randy Farmer or Chip Morningstar who have all the documentation of "prior art". Then you go to the patent office and have them do a re-examination.
The most obvious issue is the patent office should be doing a bit more before it hands out these patents.. since there is probably a rather high volume of patents... covering someone elses tech.
Oh so in short..
Yes whether the patent is valid or not is the MAIN issue here. Regardless of whether the 'prior art" was patented or not... there should be legal consequences greater than "gutting this patent". This was blatant theft of someone elses work. They then had the balls to file for a patent on someone elses work and eventually file a lawsuit.
*edited to add* Its perfect irony... You put claim on someone elses work and patent it. Which pretty much means you stole it. Then you sue someone for "stealing your work"....
Worlds.com purchased those two patents so technically it does belong to them. The problem was that those patents were never meant to be interpreted by their original creators the way worlds.com is using them.
I can honestly say that you apparantly don't understand something about patent law. The Patent Trolls archived blog in the following link is actually about this case...
http://thefarmers.org/Habitat/2008/12/
....
No where did I say the patent couldn't be overturned, but that's a separate case from this one against NCSoft and one that every MMORPG maker in the U.S. needs to be pursuing now rather than wait to see how Worlds.com does against NCSoft. You'll notice in the post you linked that reversing the Patent was a separate (and much later) process than the original case. Notice the sentence where it says: "The lawsuit was dead, but the patent reexamination was still underway."
Also, the gentleman won his case because he had proof that he used the concept prior to when the patent had priority, which in this particular case is Nov of 1996 (again I'm not sure how Patent Arcade got that date). Was NCSoft making MMORPG's prior to that date? Not that I found. Meridian 59 was out before then (and that to me is the key to overturning the patent), but does that help NCSoft with this lawsuit?
I would like to think it does, because if you think about it, if the technology was employed before hand it means that Worlds.com infact did not invent anything making the case void, but again this is me I have no knowledge of how the US court system works.
I can honestly say that you apparantly don't understand something about patent law. The Patent Trolls archived blog in the following link is actually about this case...
http://thefarmers.org/Habitat/2008/12/
Its worth a read since this guy most definitely has "prior art" over any claim of worlds.com and to be more specific to your claim here is a quote: (this is from a previous case where Randy Farmer presented evidence for someone in a similar situation)
"The Danger of Suing with Bad Patents: Reexamination
Losing the suit wasn't the end of the bad results for Forterra.
Almost one year later, on October 7th, 2008 the US Patent Office issued a Reexamination Certificate, numbered 95/000,155 that invalidates all of the claims in question - gutting the patent for use in future lawsuits against 3D chat systems. "
The patent office should have never given the patent because what they did was... Took systems other people designed over a decade earlier and some of them even date back into the 60's... then claimed they created them.
Then at some point they start filing lawsuits hoping people will roll over and bankroll them enough to go after a big fish like say Blizzard.
The point being you take guys like Randy Farmer or Chip Morningstar who have all the documentation of "prior art". Then you go to the patent office and have them do a re-examination.
The most obvious issue is the patent office should be doing a bit more before it hands out these patents.. since there is probably a rather high volume of patents... covering someone elses tech.
Oh so in short..
Yes whether the patent is valid or not is the MAIN issue here. Regardless of whether the 'prior art" was patented or not... there should be legal consequences greater than "gutting this patent". This was blatant theft of someone elses work. They then had the balls to file for a patent on someone elses work and eventually file a lawsuit.
*edited to add* Its perfect irony... You put claim on someone elses work and patent it. Which pretty much means you stole it. Then you sue someone for "stealing your work"....
Worlds.com purchased those two patents so technically it does belong to them. The problem was that those patents were never meant to be interpreted by their original creators the way worlds.com is using them.
I think you are missing the point because they were given a patent it does not mean they invented it, the technology and ideas were in place and working way before worlds.com filled it, and it dates back to the original MUDs, the patents belong to them, the idea and the right to claim royalties on them does not, the error was made by the US patent system and should be corrected by them and just shows the US patent system does not go to full lengths or employs specialists on the subject to review the patent requests.
Ultimately is gonna be a case of wether the courts are gonna let the US economy suffer a bit more so these guys can get a couple of mil in their pockets, because most certainly companies will move offices from the US if worlds.com wins to cut on having to pay these scammers for every mmo release and god knows to what lenghts they are willing to go, FPS with chat systems etc...
Sorry for the double post.
They won't get anything out of this except for a lof of negative publicity. Their "patent" is the underlying model for every MMO in existence. If they can sue NCsoft, then they can sue everyone else for the same infringement.
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I think that's the idea. They already stated they will be going after Blizzard and the makers of Second Life.
I can honestly say that you apparantly don't understand something about patent law. The Patent Trolls archived blog in the following link is actually about this case...
http://thefarmers.org/Habitat/2008/12/
Its worth a read since this guy most definitely has "prior art" over any claim of worlds.com and to be more specific to your claim here is a quote: (this is from a previous case where Randy Farmer presented evidence for someone in a similar situation)
"The Danger of Suing with Bad Patents: Reexamination
Losing the suit wasn't the end of the bad results for Forterra.
Almost one year later, on October 7th, 2008 the US Patent Office issued a Reexamination Certificate, numbered 95/000,155 that invalidates all of the claims in question - gutting the patent for use in future lawsuits against 3D chat systems. "
The patent office should have never given the patent because what they did was... Took systems other people designed over a decade earlier and some of them even date back into the 60's... then claimed they created them.
Then at some point they start filing lawsuits hoping people will roll over and bankroll them enough to go after a big fish like say Blizzard.
The point being you take guys like Randy Farmer or Chip Morningstar who have all the documentation of "prior art". Then you go to the patent office and have them do a re-examination.
The most obvious issue is the patent office should be doing a bit more before it hands out these patents.. since there is probably a rather high volume of patents... covering someone elses tech.
Oh so in short..
Yes whether the patent is valid or not is the MAIN issue here. Regardless of whether the 'prior art" was patented or not... there should be legal consequences greater than "gutting this patent". This was blatant theft of someone elses work. They then had the balls to file for a patent on someone elses work and eventually file a lawsuit.
*edited to add* Its perfect irony... You put claim on someone elses work and patent it. Which pretty much means you stole it. Then you sue someone for "stealing your work"....
Worlds.com purchased those two patents so technically it does belong to them. The problem was that those patents were never meant to be interpreted by their original creators the way worlds.com is using them.
I think you are missing the point because they were given a patent it does not mean they invented it, the technology and ideas were in place and working way before worlds.com filled it, and it dates back to the original MUDs, the patents belong to them, the idea and the right to claim royalties on them does not, the error was made by the US patent system and should be corrected by them and just shows the US patent system does not go to full lengths or employs specialists on the subject to review the patent requests.
Ultimately is gonna be a case of wether the courts are gonna let the US economy suffer a bit more so these guys can get a couple of mil in their pockets, because most certainly companies will move offices from the US if worlds.com wins to cut on having to pay these scammers for every mmo release and god knows to what lenghts they are willing to go, FPS with chat systems etc...
Sorry for the double post.
You claim that Worlds.com patents that pre-date what we call MMORPG's, and go back to the time of MUDs. So answer me this: If their patents are valid why did they wait until now to cry wolf? UO, and EQ1 were the first popular MMORPG's out, then came Star Wars Galaxie which had the first spot on television for an online game that was not a FPS. Why not step in then? I think they purposly waited for now when the MMORPG genre was at its peak. When the genre was a multi-billion dollar industry. Otherwise they would of stopped it before it even began.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
I can honestly say that you apparantly don't understand something about patent law. The Patent Trolls archived blog in the following link is actually about this case...
http://thefarmers.org/Habitat/2008/12/
Its worth a read since this guy most definitely has "prior art" over any claim of worlds.com and to be more specific to your claim here is a quote: (this is from a previous case where Randy Farmer presented evidence for someone in a similar situation)
"The Danger of Suing with Bad Patents: Reexamination
Losing the suit wasn't the end of the bad results for Forterra.
Almost one year later, on October 7th, 2008 the US Patent Office issued a Reexamination Certificate, numbered 95/000,155 that invalidates all of the claims in question - gutting the patent for use in future lawsuits against 3D chat systems. "
The patent office should have never given the patent because what they did was... Took systems other people designed over a decade earlier and some of them even date back into the 60's... then claimed they created them.
Then at some point they start filing lawsuits hoping people will roll over and bankroll them enough to go after a big fish like say Blizzard.
The point being you take guys like Randy Farmer or Chip Morningstar who have all the documentation of "prior art". Then you go to the patent office and have them do a re-examination.
The most obvious issue is the patent office should be doing a bit more before it hands out these patents.. since there is probably a rather high volume of patents... covering someone elses tech.
Oh so in short..
Yes whether the patent is valid or not is the MAIN issue here. Regardless of whether the 'prior art" was patented or not... there should be legal consequences greater than "gutting this patent". This was blatant theft of someone elses work. They then had the balls to file for a patent on someone elses work and eventually file a lawsuit.
*edited to add* Its perfect irony... You put claim on someone elses work and patent it. Which pretty much means you stole it. Then you sue someone for "stealing your work"....
Worlds.com purchased those two patents so technically it does belong to them. The problem was that those patents were never meant to be interpreted by their original creators the way worlds.com is using them.
I think you are missing the point because they were given a patent it does not mean they invented it, the technology and ideas were in place and working way before worlds.com filled it, and it dates back to the original MUDs, the patents belong to them, the idea and the right to claim royalties on them does not, the error was made by the US patent system and should be corrected by them and just shows the US patent system does not go to full lengths or employs specialists on the subject to review the patent requests.
Ultimately is gonna be a case of wether the courts are gonna let the US economy suffer a bit more so these guys can get a couple of mil in their pockets, because most certainly companies will move offices from the US if worlds.com wins to cut on having to pay these scammers for every mmo release and god knows to what lenghts they are willing to go, FPS with chat systems etc...
Sorry for the double post.
You claim that Worlds.com patents that pre-date what we call MMORPG's, and go back to the time of MUDs. So answer me this: If their patents are valid why did they wait until now to cry wolf? UO, and EQ1 were the first popular MMORPG's out, then came Star Wars Galaxie which had the first spot on television for an online game that was not a FPS. Why not step in then? I think they purposly waited for now when the MMORPG genre was at its peak. When the genre was a multi-billion dollar industry. Otherwise they would of stopped it before it even began.
I think you misunderstood my post, I dont think they have to right to anything cause much longer before Worlds.com there were MUDS, UO etc... I dont claim they pre-date anything, I think worlds.com are scammers.
You claim that Worlds.com patents that pre-date what we call MMORPG's, and go back to the time of MUDs. So answer me this: If their patents are valid why did they wait until now to cry wolf? UO, and EQ1 were the first popular MMORPG's out, then came Star Wars Galaxie which had the first spot on television for an online game that was not a FPS. Why not step in then? I think they purposly waited for now when the MMORPG genre was at its peak. When the genre was a multi-billion dollar industry. Otherwise they would of stopped it before it even began.
The reason they waited until now is because the patent wasnt issued until 2007. It probably took until now to get their legal and bs charges together.
"It is better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees,"
This will be a cute excercise. People underestimate Ncsoft so much. It's a global, multi-national, multi-billion dollar corporation. I garauntee you that all the other mega game corporations are preparing cases of their own to crush these faggots before they gain any steam.
These guys are hitting a hornets nest....only instead of hornets it's a bunch of cyborg-ninja-pirates. Us gamers won't stand for little fuckers like this bringing down our games. Whether they be the FPS with online capabilities to the hardcore RPG's. Of course that's assuming they even get that far.
All NCsoft does is make MMO's of every shape and size. So it's a pretty safe guess that they have some of the best lawyers around that specialize in that field. Bottom line here is that you can't patent a broad idea like this. And that's exactly what these guys think they've done.
This is like getting a patent on air. The vague nature of these patents could even extend to such 'virtual worlds' as chat rooms or myspace or facebook. It's completely insane that these patents even went through in the first place.
This "patent" is the dumbest shit I've heard of in a long time. I hope this company who is sueing gets crushed into the ground - literally.
You just wait 'til Al Gore hears about this! Then you'll see, then you'll all see!