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Was playing WoW..a thought came over my mind and I just quit.
Sneakers05
Member Posts: 316
After getting my level 80 elemental shaman in a raid guild, after doing the same 3-4 heroic instances to get the gear i needed to raid, I joined a raid guild, constantly we did the same raid naxxramas, eye of eternity and malygos those three same raids, the same thing over and over and over again. Just hoping for loot.
When I was leveling my alt to 80, something just came accross my mind that this is what I will be doing with this character, the same few instances, to the same few raids just to to keep grinding for loot and waiting months after months for a different raid. There was no different exploration, there was no different content, it was rushing to 80 to do the same grind that i did on my shaman.
Is it worth it? The 15 dollars a month to constantly do this same repetition? Then I quit WoW. but is this problem just in WOW? Are there any mmorpgs with a different end game where there are different goals? If there is can any one recommend me one? I am extremely bored and its not that I am burned out there is a big difference between being burned out and just plain bored.
So can any one recommend me a mmorpg or am I going to go back to single player rpgs and wait for the next best thing?
http://helpourfuture.blogspot.com/
save our future.
Comments
This is why I Just quit and went back to FFXI, it may also be a rat race but atleast I have a lot more friends there and the people are a lot nicer.
Oh and FFXI has a LOT of new stuff coming out soon, (no not the april fools stuff) They have 3 expantions coming out this year (boosters not full blow ex packs)
Also you can now level sync your characters to other people so you can party with virtually anyone at anytime.
Fun?
Yeah I'm having fun again
Well first off let me say that i know the feeling you are having with WoW. I quit after wotlk after lvling to 80 and raiding all the time. Most MMO's are gonna be along the same lines though, end game dungeons, crafting, pvp, and so on. I would recommend a sandbox for you considering it will keep you going for years.
I would recommend EvE since it's a sandbox with no lvls., skill based, pvp with full loot and so on. This game def. has a steep learning curve but has a great community and a rookie channel for help. There is a thread for a 21 day VIP pass instead of the 14 day free trial you would normally get. I would recommend the 21 day pass since this game is time consuming.
Go to the forums or EvE's webpage and read up on all the options you can have in game and good luck.
If your up for a Sci-Fi ship based economy driven game then EvE is the one, player community seems very nice and everyone is very helpful.
I gave the trial a go and it was very enjoyable, however I couldn't resolve an issue that involved the game crashing every few hours, and it just annoyed me too much to keep going.
Great game though.
Thanks guys, EVE was okay, I could not really get into FFXI, it seemed really much more complicated than a mmorpg should be. How is LOTRO by any chance? I like mmos with good stories as well
http://helpourfuture.blogspot.com/
save our future.
If you like a solid PvE game then you'll like it. It's pretty much along the lines of WoW and all the other normal themepark games. It's not based on the books or movies, well maybe loosely but not really. You can pretty much solo to max level without any problems. I honestly think that you will get the same way with this game as you did with WoW though. Best thing for someone like you is to wait for a good sandbox like MO or Earthrise to come out, that's what i'm doing since nothing atm seems to be much different from anything else that's out except maybe a couple minor things.
-cheers
If you like a solid PvE game then you'll like it. It's pretty much along the lines of WoW and all the other normal themepark games. It's not based on the books or movies, well maybe loosely but not really. You can pretty much solo to max level without any problems. I honestly think that you will get the same way with this game as you did with WoW though. Best thing for someone like you is to wait for a good sandbox like MO or Earthrise to come out, that's what i'm doing since nothing atm seems to be much different from anything else that's out except maybe a couple minor things.
-cheers
I liked LotR for the fact that it reminded me mostly of EQ mixed with WoW with Tolkien lore. I didn't like how the combat system is and the characters feel kinda sluggish, like the movement does...
My ONLY complaints are the play control essentially.
The rest of the game is pretty spotless
Congratulations. You've figured out why most MMORPG endgames are awful. This takes a lot of people a very long time to figure out, if they ever do.
The basic problem is that the endgame is what a company gives you to after you've already done everything worth doing, hoping that you won't catch on and will keep paying the monthly fee. The key property is something that takes minimal development time to create, but enormous amounts of player time to complete. A company can't allow you to ever have the best of all possible gear. If they let you get by without doing any particular instance more than once or twice, you'll run out of content very quickly. Thus, the company has to ensure that you'll have to grind through a particular dungeon many times before you can go on to the next. A lot of MMORPG players can't really imagine that it could be otherwise, so they put up with it.
If you'd like an endgame that actually has a lot of variety, try Guild Wars. The endgame consists of switching to hard mode, and that makes everything in the game of a reasonable level for you, even when you're at the level cap with perfect gear. You can then go do whatever content you want, in whatever order you want. There are about 70 missions, 18 dungeons, and well over 100 zones to vanquish. You can do one a bunch of times in a row if you like, or just do one once and never again. You can completely skip whichever ones you like. You can decide that you want to do missions but skip dungeons and vanquishing, or any other criteria you like.
One of the key things that makes this possible is that completing content in Guild Wars doesn't make you stronger. You're already at the level cap with perfect gear when you start hard mode, so you can't get stronger from there. This is important because it makes it possible to do the content in whatever order you like without being too weak for what you do first or too strong for whatever you do last.
If you'd like some variety between your characters, so that you don't just end up doing exactly the same thing with every character, it helps to avoid PvE-only skills, especially Ursan Blessing. Avoiding the various PvE-only cheats preserves the original intended challenge, without using the various cheats like consumables to make everything trivial. This may seem like a weird thing to advise, but unlike most games, which encourage you to make everything as trivial as possible to keep up in leveling, in Guild Wars, you can freely try hard things without worrying about keeping up on gear. That's because you very quickly get as strong as you'll ever be, and then the focus is on doing the content.
Welcome to my world where banging your head against a wall seems more enjoyable than anything out there.
Currently restarting World of Warcraft
I actually read the wall guys!
Here is whats wrong with the wall, your saying that you don't like endgame that makes you continually build your character up more and more grabbing at better gear new items and new skills and new high end difficult things to get.
Problem: Most RPG's are level builders, we enjoy making our characters stronger and stronger, getting better and better making old things that were once difficult easy and encountering new things that are amazingly hard and virtually impossible when you first see them.
We like challenge, and we like level building...
RPG = LEVEL BUILDING
How many times have I played a final fantasy game and leveled the characters to 99 even though you only needed to get to 50 to win?
How many people have played Oblivion or Morrowind or any other game with levels where you didn't do the main story until you character was a beefed up and powerful as you could make it, why?
BECAUSE WE LIKE LEVEL BUILDING
I actually read the wall guys!
Here is whats wrong with the wall, your saying that you don't like endgame that makes you continually build your character up more and more grabbing at better gear new items and new skills and new high end difficult things to get.
Problem: Most RPG's are level builders, we enjoy making our characters stronger and stronger, getting better and better making old things that were once difficult easy and encountering new things that are amazingly hard and virtually impossible when you first see them.
We like challenge, and we like level building...
RPG = LEVEL BUILDING
How many times have I played a final fantasy game and leveled the characters to 99 even though you only needed to get to 50 to win?
How many people have played Oblivion or Morrowind or any other game with levels where you didn't do the main story until you character was a beefed up and powerful as you could make it, why?
BECAUSE WE LIKE LEVEL BUILDING
Amen brother!
I will agree level building is pretty much a RPG staple, yet doing the very same dungeon over and over shouldn't. Endgame needs to evolve because it seems most players tend to burn/race thru all the content on the way to max lvl. All the content not asorbed is pretty much wasted and forgotten.
I'm playing WAR atm, a game that is not perfect and suffers from endgame balancing. I will say that game is very fun to make alts.
To the OP...good for you for realizing WoW is garbage.. search for a new game thats coming out
I actually read the wall guys!
Here is whats wrong with the wall, your saying that you don't like endgame that makes you continually build your character up more and more grabbing at better gear new items and new skills and new high end difficult things to get.
Problem: Most RPG's are level builders, we enjoy making our characters stronger and stronger, getting better and better making old things that were once difficult easy and encountering new things that are amazingly hard and virtually impossible when you first see them.
We like challenge, and we like level building...
RPG = LEVEL BUILDING
How many times have I played a final fantasy game and leveled the characters to 99 even though you only needed to get to 50 to win?
How many people have played Oblivion or Morrowind or any other game with levels where you didn't do the main story until you character was a beefed up and powerful as you could make it, why?
BECAUSE WE LIKE LEVEL BUILDING
It's true, it's true. That's why FFXI (~5 years) and DAoC (~7 years) kept me playing so long. They had alot of things to do. FFXI is by far the longest game I've ever played, I ended up finally quitting after getting my goldsmithing to 103 and all jobs except BLM and RDM to 75. For DAoC, I finally quit after getting 13L0 and ML10 Battlemaster. Having always something to do is key to the success of endgame. I'm sorry but 10 levels to level and 8 pieces of armor and a couple of weapons to raid for just doesn't hold me very long
Amen brother!
Yes the main issue is that "level building" was the keystone of single player RPG's.
What you are describing is exactly why MMO's based on the principle end up the way that they do.
I can write a wall of text if you really can't see the relation but.. we already had one or two of those this thread so I don't want to really add my own.
The *hint* if you need one.. is to look at every level based MMO where you make your character stronger and stronger. No matter which MMO's you take and how different they may seem... They will all end up in the same "cycle" at the end. Which is pretty much where most people quit (the ones that do quit).
sounds to me like you limited YOURSELF. why were those 3 or 4 raids the ONLY ones you did? stop treating the game like a 2nd job. try forgetting about DKP's and stats and getting the "right" gear.. try HAVING FUN. why does it have to be so serious?
people these days are so focused on being uber or being "geared" that they forget to have fun
Same here with me. It's been fun rushing my priest to 80 and to be among the first couple of 80s on my server. This way i've had a guaranteed spot on every group and quickly made my way around in all the heroics in the very early days of WotLK, progressing fast. My priest was set with decent equip pretty soon while most of my guildies where still behind leveling. I pulled a DK and my old druid to 80 right after while my guild slowly got ready to raid.
With my already full epic Holypriest i was now in for every heroic, every naxx 10 and 25 with my guild. My weekly schedule looked like 3 days 25 naxx/sarth/archa, 2 days 10 naxx/sarth/archa + helping my guildies in heroics around the clock inbetween. After about 2,5 month my priest was fully decked in with 25er equip and except for Sarth3D i had done and seen everything WotLK in and out countless times. So i started playing my druid more and more often, looking for a change...one evening in naxx 10 again, i suddenly started to wonder what i was doing. I realized that i didn't had a different gaming experience every day, but repeated "the same day" over and over again in the game for month already.
4 times a week in Naxxramas with both my priest and druid i just got a boredom-overkill and quit playing WoW altogether. To my surprise, my guild leader got very upset about me leaving. The following arguement with her and some other few people of my guild was the nail in the coffin because it showed me that i didnt only spent my time in the same-o-same raid over and over, but also spent it with people who got all over me when i dared to think out of the box and criticised their "precious". So i turned my back on both the game and the guild and although it was a bit strange the first couple of days, i felt a major relief being out of the threadmill soon after.
I'm now playing Oblivion, tuned with a ton of plugins and i SO enjoy the opportunities and freedom in and outside the game.
If you're still leveling and going through content at a considerable pace, you're not yet at the endgame. If the endgame is based on leveling to make you stronger, then it intrinsically has to be incredibly grindy. The only plausible way around that is randomly generated content, which might someday be done well, but would be really hard to code. If you don't mind doing one instance a dozen times before going on to the next--and then repeating with your next character, and the one after that, then that's fine for you. But I don't like that, and apparently the original poster on this thread doesn't like it, either. Stopping the leveling treadmill and getting off is the only fix for that that I'm aware of.
I too find it amazing that people are content with the hamster wheel, but ho hum.
That said, the other MMO model is that endgame is pvp, and ideally pvp that in some way affects the gameworld, however briefly.
Lineage 2. Will be a challenge to reach the top levels with all the extras and you can fight in major clan wars at end game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I quit WoW like 4 months ago, the MMO is seriously overrated, not fun after you get to end-game and realize you've been playing a LIE, solo play till end game and then, oh wait you need groups to get anything accomplished.
You even need groups for PvP (arena) and are completely punished for being a casual player and not an elitist:
Arena ratings on gear, can't have the same gear as everyone else, hence the infamous reputation, World of Gearcraft and not skill, literally I've seen people play horrid, and win arena matches due to gear. I outplayed many War/Dru in S2-S3 and Rogue/X in S4 only to lose horribly due to class imbalance.
Sorry I am not going to play a game I am forced to roll some overpowered class to be successful at, when I enjoy the initial one I rolled in the first place.
The game is a total box-mmo, with only a few raids and repititive heroics, and you can't "have fun" when even PvE content is gear based.
Everyone asks your stats "+healing? +spellpower? AP?" if it falls "below" their retarded "high standards, then you don't get invited.
Seriously, worst game ever made. I will not ever pick it up again, and am happily enjoying my time on FFXI and LOTRO, way more than WoW.
I felt the same thing as a few people in here have:
"Why am I doing all this crap over again?"
"Why should I roll 1 single class to be successful in PvP, when every couple patches, everything is flip-floped and that class is way less viable and is now the underdog, and something else magically becomes overpowered?"
Retarded freakin' game. FFXI
man I'm so glad to be back, I'm enjoying my end game immensly, PvP is better, PvE is way more interesting, way more to do than a couple raids and heroics.
You can do about 5 different BCNMs that cap at level 30 for gear, 5 different at 40, 5 different at 50, 5 different at 60, 70, 75. You have about 10 different KSNMs at 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 75 same as the others. ENMs at 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 75... like 5 per level cap, INMs about 5 each level cap.... all different strategies for every one, Promys, plus ground HNMs to camp, sky Gods to kill, CoP missions to beat that get rewards, Zilart missions that give rewards, Wings of the Goddess missions that give rewards, probably for a grand total of HUNDREDS of different raids, NMs to camp, level caps to do, artifact 1 and 2 gear to obtain, legendary gear to unlock with byne bills in about 10 different OTHER raids - Dynamis. The game is fascinating . ...MASSIVE...H U G E. It doesn't get old and the BCNMs and other freakin massive amounts of low level capped raids drop HIGHER end game gear, the harder ones, and stuff that sells for MASSIVE.
Crafting is way harder, takes WAY longer than WoW to get a max level craft but the rewards for doing so are amazing.
After you hit cap level, you can STILL MERIT (which is the same as leveling but boosting stats past the level cap, but limited), you can mix and match stats, there's no "rerolling" you always keep your same name, just switch "classes" or "jobs" so people will remember you if you perform poorly in a party, or constantly go AFK or act rude, you will not have a good reputation.
Seriously WOW has nothing on FFXI
WOOT and it's even way easier to get groups now, they have LEVEL SYNC now so you can sync to anyone onlines level and get good exp, but it's still challenging and amazingly fun to get to max level, and adventurous, sneaking and invisible'ing past mobs that could 2 shot you, to get to a "camp" so you can start exping... adrenaline rush, man I love that game 
Got to disagree with you there.
When I play any RPG I run through the story usually grinding out levels at bare minimum. Occasionally there are optional bosses offered (every Final Fantasy game has them) that are usually tougher than the final boss and require you to grind levels. If that's the case I grind out the levels needed to defeat that boss. However the process of level building/grinding isn't fun at all to me. A lot of the newer RPGs are realizing this and are offering optional dungeons which when you clear through them to get to the optional boss (which is generally harder than the game's final boss) you'll have more than enough levels to take them on (instead of having to grind out cactaurs or whatever).
I'm not saying nobody likes level building, but I think you'll find out that the majority of RPG players don't. Most people aren't going to level their chars to 99 in Final Fantasy games (they'll level to 50 or so and take on the final bosses). I've personally hit max level in way more MMORPGS than RPGs.
Oblivion is completely different though, you can't use it as a comparison here. Not only do the MOBs scale to your level in Oblivion you don't even have to complete the story to enjoy the game. I played Oblivion for almost 100+ hours and never completed the story instead I cleared out every dungeon, meticiously scanned the map, and did every quest I could find. Level is almost meaningless in Oblivion.
No. An RPG is not necessarily about level-building at all. Even if a component is level-building that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be a gear or level grinder. It certainly doesn't mean it has to be about repeating the same content over and over. There are few things one can definitively say an RPG is. You control a character in one, you interact with a world, and it's a game. Trying to say an RPG must something beyond that usually ends in making a statement that is trivially shown to be false. It's the same here (there are rpgs without levels for instance).
Now, as a game, it should be fun. Very often that means a challenge. However, current MMORPG end-game challenges are often very poorly thought out. Take WoW, for instance. There you run the same thing over and over again, each time making the next time more trivial. You are supposed to fight these trivial battles for months AT LEAST. That's not very fun, honestly, and it is one reason why people burn out on the game (though there are others). I'd like there to be more of a challenge, but realistically speaking there isn't. The really hard challenges would require that I leave out some of the friends I have made or become very demanding of their time. That's partly because the really hard challenges require 10 or 25 people, and if you have a guild that is family friendly (which should not be detrimental), then you can do the normal raids, but you probably won't have 10-25 people who are hard-core enough to do those challenges. If I could do really hard challenges with a 2 or 3 people, that would be a LOT more accessible and fun for me, but the game has an arbitrary line where if you can't get 10 people who play a lot with the right combination of classes and specs, then you aren't allowed to do the really hard stuff. Two, three, four, or five people just doesn't cut it for no particular reason. So I am stuck in WoW of raid leading against largely trivial challenges (unless some key members can't show up, in which case some content can become impossible unless I choose to pug it). The leading can be kinda fun, but the content overall has gotten very stale. It was stale a month ago, and I go to end-game WotLK a bit late. Ulduar will fair a little better, but it'll still get stale pretty quick. Frankly, I'd quit the game if I didn't play with my brother and lead the raids (and not quitting out of a sense of responsibility sucks).
Anyhoo, the point is that end-game content that makes itself trivial because it gives you super-gear is self-defeating content. It makes itself obsolete within a few weeks at most, really (after that it goes trivial to very trivial). I'd prefer a game that kept the challenge level high and where my character wasn't defined by his gear more than my skill and class abilities. Frankly, the whole gear as a reward system is doomed to this kind of failure, because the only way they can reward you is to make you more powerful. Hence content must become trivial (or they make the content scale in which case you really get no reward for anything). Sandbox games can have better rewards, more lasting and interesting ones certainly. I'd also like rewards where you got to really change the story and game world through your actions (even if it means you need help from other players). That would have lasting meaning and a good sense of satisfaction. WoW certainly DOESN'T want to be this. They had quest lines to free Stormwind form Onyxia's control and half a chain to rescue the King, then in WotLK they just had the King come back and Onyxia be defeated by him, with all previous help of the gamers ret-conned out of the game (how lame is that?) and the Onyxia quest chain removed (even when they could have easily used the new phasing technology to let the players still experience that.
Well, I am going on a bit. Long story short, I'd rather a game with more immersive rewards than UBER LOOT, because UBER LOOT is self-defeating if you are interested in being challenged.
Got to disagree with you there.
When I play any RPG I run through the story usually grinding out levels at bare minimum. Occasionally there are optional bosses offered (every Final Fantasy game has them) that are usually tougher than the final boss and require you to grind levels. If that's the case I grind out the levels needed to defeat that boss. However the process of level building/grinding isn't fun at all to me. A lot of the newer RPGs are realizing this and are offering optional dungeons which when you clear through them to get to the optional boss (which is generally harder than the game's final boss) you'll have more than enough levels to take them on (instead of having to grind out cactaurs or whatever).
I'm not saying nobody likes level building, but I think you'll find out that the majority of RPG players don't. Most people aren't going to level their chars to 99 in Final Fantasy games (they'll level to 50 or so and take on the final bosses). I've personally hit max level in way more MMORPGS than RPGs.
Oblivion is completely different though, you can't use it as a comparison here. Not only do the MOBs scale to your level in Oblivion you don't even have to complete the story to enjoy the game. I played Oblivion for almost 100+ hours and never completed the story instead I cleared out every dungeon, meticiously scanned the map, and did every quest I could find. Level is almost meaningless in Oblivion.
So you didn't enjoy making your character get stronger?
Scalable enemies does not negate my argument, rather it reinforces it, if enemies didn't get harder you couldn't get stronger to over come them...
The point is that you said you spent 100's of hours playing an RPG, thats grinding, thats level building.
Thanks for agreeing
Don't be obtuse. Anyone who thinks Oblivion is all about level gaining hasn't played the game significantly.
Also, if you thinking that a game where when you gain a level ALL THE MONSTERS IN THE WORLD BECOME TOUGHER somehow makes level gaining more significant, then you need to check your logic circuits.