sounds to me like you limited YOURSELF. why were those 3 or 4 raids the ONLY ones you did? stop treating the game like a 2nd job. try forgetting about DKP's and stats and getting the "right" gear.. try HAVING FUN. why does it have to be so serious?
people these days are so focused on being uber or being "geared" that they forget to have fun
I have fun by facing a challenge and being rewarded in some way for overcoming it. If I don't do eng-game raiding in WoW, then there is no fun. If I do Eng-game raiding in WoW then that raiding itself removes the challenge of end-game raiding (and not using upgraded gear would remove the reward). I don't know where this fun in WoW that you speak of is. (And yes, I've two-manned most of MC with my brother -- pally tank can't heal-tank the last boss though, and done other things to try to find some fun, but it just isn't there really).
Originally posted by Jerid13 So you didn't enjoy making your character get stronger? Scalable enemies does not negate my argument, rather it reinforces it, if enemies didn't get harder you couldn't get stronger to over come them... The point is that you said you spent 100's of hours playing an RPG, thats grinding, thats level building.
Making your character stronger isn't bad, per se. The problem is that an end game built around making your character stronger means an extremely repetitive and grindy endgame. The grinding and repetition are what's bad.
Spending hundreds of hours on a game isn't intrinsically grinding. Or do you want to argue that all that time I spent playing Tecmo Super Bowl, I was really just grinding levels in, err, what, exactly?
Originally posted by Jerid13 So you didn't enjoy making your character get stronger? Scalable enemies does not negate my argument, rather it reinforces it, if enemies didn't get harder you couldn't get stronger to over come them... The point is that you said you spent 100's of hours playing an RPG, thats grinding, thats level building.
Making your character stronger isn't bad, per se. The problem is that an end game built around making your character stronger means an extremely repetitive and grindy endgame. The grinding and repetition are what's bad.
Spending hundreds of hours on a game isn't intrinsically grinding. Or do you want to argue that all that time I spent playing Tecmo Super Bowl, I was really just grinding levels in, err, what, exactly?
Wrong, read my post on page 3 at the top about FFXI and have a great day.
The question is, is the MMORPG Made for its leveing TO endgame, or FOR its endgame.
A game like DAoC Was FOR its Endgame, WAR as well, you want to get there so you can take over things and smash foes and PVP your brains out, Darkfall is like this too, no one plays darkfall because they love spamming their left mouse button to see .1 skill gains.
Everyone plays these games for the unique experiance they have AFTER the work you put in.
Games like FFXI and WoW have a large following of people who enjoy the journey, I know a lot of WoW players havn't even seen Endgame, and a lot o FFXI players too.
Endgame in FFXI and WoW are more like traditional RPG's, you go in the dungeons and you kill the horrors you encounter and your characters get stronger through finding rare artifacts.
Like old school table top DND once your characters hit 20.
An Ideal game would blend these two concepts, having things that allowed for level building betting of your character both superfically (graphically for instance) and in the characters actual power.
No one would play WoW's endgame if they didn't keep making new gear and just let you kill new bosses.
They need to throw in more elements of an open ended player run game like EvE, Darkfall, and in some ways DAoC, UO, and Warhammer.
So basicly a game where nations can battle nations with realish concequences but they constantly add in new ways to better your toons to make you want to get stronger and faster and better.
If we didn't desire to become stronger and faster and better then people wouldn't body build or watch Nascar or do Yoga, its part of who we are. Its almost our driving force as human beings to seek to better ourselves.
Oh and about the Oblivion example, I've played Morrowind Oblivion and Fallout 3, I really like Bethsea studios (sp?) and the reason I say that their games are about level building is obvious, its carefully calculated and you can plan out how you wan your charcter to develop and that generally is the main reason people enjoy those games so much, that and the massive world to explore, of which I am a huge fan.
The question is, is the MMORPG Made for its leveing TO endgame, or FOR its endgame. A game like DAoC Was FOR its Endgame, WAR as well, you want to get there so you can take over things and smash foes and PVP your brains out, Darkfall is like this too, no one plays darkfall because they love spamming their left mouse button to see .1 skill gains. Everyone plays these games for the unique experiance they have AFTER the work you put in. Games like FFXI and WoW have a large following of people who enjoy the journey, I know a lot of WoW players havn't even seen Endgame, and a lot o FFXI players too. Endgame in FFXI and WoW are more like traditional RPG's, you go in the dungeons and you kill the horrors you encounter and your characters get stronger through finding rare artifacts. Like old school table top DND once your characters hit 20.
An Ideal game would blend these two concepts, having things that allowed for level building betting of your character both superfically (graphically for instance) and in the characters actual power. No one would play WoW's endgame if they didn't keep making new gear and just let you kill new bosses. They need to throw in more elements of an open ended player run game like EvE, Darkfall, and in some ways DAoC, UO, and Warhammer.
So basicly a game where nations can battle nations with realish concequences but they constantly add in new ways to better your toons to make you want to get stronger and faster and better.
If we didn't desire to become stronger and faster and better then people wouldn't body build or watch Nascar or do Yoga, its part of who we are. Its almost our driving force as human beings to seek to better ourselves.
Sorry you cannot even put FFXI in the same category as WoW bro, it's light years ahead of WoW in design, and keeping the players attention span for about 100x longer than WoW.
Seriously I play end game FFXI AND WoW WoTLK.... trying to compare WoW to FFXI is like comparing FFXI (the supreme buffet) to someone who participated in an upside down hotdog eating regurgitation tournament and the top 3 winners regurgitation is saved for a finale on fear factor.
Well i came back to this thread to give the OP another game he can try and noticed that it's off topic now and not sure he will even look here anymore but I still suggest a game i guess.
Try out Ryzom, www.ryzom.com, check out the webpage for details cause i'm tired and too lazy to type everything about it on here but it's sandboxish. Level skill and no classes etc etc. and shape the world and and that good stuff. Crafting that matters and player driven economy and it's free for a little bit longer but not sure how much longer before it gets back to p2p. Go check it out if you are actually gonna make it to this post .
Originally posted by Jerid13 So you didn't enjoy making your character get stronger? Scalable enemies does not negate my argument, rather it reinforces it, if enemies didn't get harder you couldn't get stronger to over come them... The point is that you said you spent 100's of hours playing an RPG, thats grinding, thats level building.
Making your character stronger isn't bad, per se. The problem is that an end game built around making your character stronger means an extremely repetitive and grindy endgame. The grinding and repetition are what's bad.
Spending hundreds of hours on a game isn't intrinsically grinding. Or do you want to argue that all that time I spent playing Tecmo Super Bowl, I was really just grinding levels in, err, what, exactly?
Wrong, read my post on page 3 at the top about FFXI and have a great day.
{ Mod Edit }
Being an FFXI fanboy doesn't make you perfect. Maybe grouping is easier, but I bet travel times still stink and that grouping can still be a major pain if you can't find a healer or tank. I also can tell that it is still mega-grindy. Sure, the combat system is nice, but I don't really care for the "go to location X and kill guys for hours over and over again to gain a level." That DOES get old. The complete lack of single-player content, so if you want to explore you HAVE to get a full group, is not a lot of fun either. As for the crafting system, I can't believe you are advocating a system where you have a random chance to skill up and a random chance to fail and lose all of your mats. The crafting system in FFXI is TERRIBLE, the "hard" thing is just that it is a MASSIVE time and money sink. That's it. I'm not saying FFXI doesn't have it's good points -- I love the elemental combos, but it is far from a perfect game.
Originally posted by Jerid13 So you didn't enjoy making your character get stronger? Scalable enemies does not negate my argument, rather it reinforces it, if enemies didn't get harder you couldn't get stronger to over come them... The point is that you said you spent 100's of hours playing an RPG, thats grinding, thats level building.
Making your character stronger isn't bad, per se. The problem is that an end game built around making your character stronger means an extremely repetitive and grindy endgame. The grinding and repetition are what's bad.
Spending hundreds of hours on a game isn't intrinsically grinding. Or do you want to argue that all that time I spent playing Tecmo Super Bowl, I was really just grinding levels in, err, what, exactly?
Wrong, read my post on page 3 at the top about FFXI and have a great day.
{ Mod Edit }.
Being an FFXI fanboy doesn't make you perfect. Maybe grouping is easier, but I bet travel times still stink and that grouping can still be a major pain if you can't find a healer or tank. I also can tell that it is still mega-grindy. Sure, the combat system is nice, but I don't really care for the "go to location X and kill guys for hours over and over again to gain a level." That DOES get old. The complete lack of single-player content, so if you want to explore you HAVE to get a full group, is not a lot of fun either. As for the crafting system, I can't believe you are advocating a system where you have a random chance to skill up and a random chance to fail and lose all of your mats. The crafting system in FFXI is TERRIBLE, the "hard" thing is just that it is a MASSIVE time and money sink. That's it. I'm not saying FFXI doesn't have it's good points -- I love the elemental combos, but it is far from a perfect game.
Sorry bro.
Level sync fixed all that. Any tank online or healer being level 75 can party and level sync with a level 10, drop their level down and exp for however long they want.
And there's ALWAYS over 2.2k people on pretty much every server always, japanese chinese americans just like WoW lmao
I play end game and also level new jobs and never had problems finding anything, you can ask any tank of the 600 tanks online to participate in any level party LOL every idiot WoW fanboy always has that argument how the heck would you know, I play FFXI you don't.
The question is, is the MMORPG Made for its leveing TO endgame, or FOR its endgame. A game like DAoC Was FOR its Endgame, WAR as well, you want to get there so you can take over things and smash foes and PVP your brains out, Darkfall is like this too, no one plays darkfall because they love spamming their left mouse button to see .1 skill gains. Everyone plays these games for the unique experiance they have AFTER the work you put in. Games like FFXI and WoW have a large following of people who enjoy the journey, I know a lot of WoW players havn't even seen Endgame, and a lot o FFXI players too. Endgame in FFXI and WoW are more like traditional RPG's, you go in the dungeons and you kill the horrors you encounter and your characters get stronger through finding rare artifacts. Like old school table top DND once your characters hit 20.
An Ideal game would blend these two concepts, having things that allowed for level building betting of your character both superfically (graphically for instance) and in the characters actual power. No one would play WoW's endgame if they didn't keep making new gear and just let you kill new bosses. They need to throw in more elements of an open ended player run game like EvE, Darkfall, and in some ways DAoC, UO, and Warhammer.
So basicly a game where nations can battle nations with realish concequences but they constantly add in new ways to better your toons to make you want to get stronger and faster and better.
If we didn't desire to become stronger and faster and better then people wouldn't body build or watch Nascar or do Yoga, its part of who we are. Its almost our driving force as human beings to seek to better ourselves.
Sorry you cannot even put FFXI in the same category as WoW bro, it's light years ahead of WoW in design, and keeping the players attention span for about 100x longer than WoW.
Seriously I play end game FFXI AND WoW WoTLK.... trying to compare WoW to FFXI is like comparing FFXI (the supreme buffet) to someone who participated in an upside down hotdog eating regurgitation tournament and the top 3 winners regurgitation is saved for a finale on fear factor.
I've played WoW since right after BC came out and I've played FFXI since it was released in the US with the Zilart exp pack.
People say you can't compare apples and oranges, but you really can.
Apples have red skins, oranges have orange skin, one has a core and one does not.
Both have stems... Both are fruit....
Saying you can't compare two things and then listing off opinion statements does not make a true statement.
The question is, is the MMORPG Made for its leveing TO endgame, or FOR its endgame. A game like DAoC Was FOR its Endgame, WAR as well, you want to get there so you can take over things and smash foes and PVP your brains out, Darkfall is like this too, no one plays darkfall because they love spamming their left mouse button to see .1 skill gains. Everyone plays these games for the unique experiance they have AFTER the work you put in. Games like FFXI and WoW have a large following of people who enjoy the journey, I know a lot of WoW players havn't even seen Endgame, and a lot o FFXI players too. Endgame in FFXI and WoW are more like traditional RPG's, you go in the dungeons and you kill the horrors you encounter and your characters get stronger through finding rare artifacts. Like old school table top DND once your characters hit 20.
An Ideal game would blend these two concepts, having things that allowed for level building betting of your character both superfically (graphically for instance) and in the characters actual power. No one would play WoW's endgame if they didn't keep making new gear and just let you kill new bosses. They need to throw in more elements of an open ended player run game like EvE, Darkfall, and in some ways DAoC, UO, and Warhammer.
So basicly a game where nations can battle nations with realish concequences but they constantly add in new ways to better your toons to make you want to get stronger and faster and better.
If we didn't desire to become stronger and faster and better then people wouldn't body build or watch Nascar or do Yoga, its part of who we are. Its almost our driving force as human beings to seek to better ourselves.
Sorry you cannot even put FFXI in the same category as WoW bro, it's light years ahead of WoW in design, and keeping the players attention span for about 100x longer than WoW.
Seriously I play end game FFXI AND WoW WoTLK.... trying to compare WoW to FFXI is like comparing FFXI (the supreme buffet) to someone who participated in an upside down hotdog eating regurgitation tournament and the top 3 winners regurgitation is saved for a finale on fear factor.
I've played WoW since right after BC came out and I've played FFXI since it was released in the US with the Zilart exp pack.
People say you can't compare apples and oranges, but you really can.
Apples have red skins, oranges have orange skin, one has a core and one does not.
Both have stems... Both are fruit....
Saying you can't compare two things and then listing off opinion statements does not make a true statement.
It makes an opinion statement.
Yep and because FFXI has changed so much and evolved into something really great while WoW has remained fail and only gotten worse gives me plenty of room for argument and also because you PROBABLY don't even play FFXI now to even notice the changes.
The question is, is the MMORPG Made for its leveing TO endgame, or FOR its endgame. A game like DAoC Was FOR its Endgame, WAR as well, you want to get there so you can take over things and smash foes and PVP your brains out, Darkfall is like this too, no one plays darkfall because they love spamming their left mouse button to see .1 skill gains. Everyone plays these games for the unique experiance they have AFTER the work you put in. Games like FFXI and WoW have a large following of people who enjoy the journey, I know a lot of WoW players havn't even seen Endgame, and a lot o FFXI players too. Endgame in FFXI and WoW are more like traditional RPG's, you go in the dungeons and you kill the horrors you encounter and your characters get stronger through finding rare artifacts. Like old school table top DND once your characters hit 20.
An Ideal game would blend these two concepts, having things that allowed for level building betting of your character both superfically (graphically for instance) and in the characters actual power. No one would play WoW's endgame if they didn't keep making new gear and just let you kill new bosses. They need to throw in more elements of an open ended player run game like EvE, Darkfall, and in some ways DAoC, UO, and Warhammer.
So basicly a game where nations can battle nations with realish concequences but they constantly add in new ways to better your toons to make you want to get stronger and faster and better.
If we didn't desire to become stronger and faster and better then people wouldn't body build or watch Nascar or do Yoga, its part of who we are. Its almost our driving force as human beings to seek to better ourselves.
Sorry you cannot even put FFXI in the same category as WoW bro, it's light years ahead of WoW in design, and keeping the players attention span for about 100x longer than WoW.
Seriously I play end game FFXI AND WoW WoTLK.... trying to compare WoW to FFXI is like comparing FFXI (the supreme buffet) to someone who participated in an upside down hotdog eating regurgitation tournament and the top 3 winners regurgitation is saved for a finale on fear factor.
I've played WoW since right after BC came out and I've played FFXI since it was released in the US with the Zilart exp pack.
People say you can't compare apples and oranges, but you really can.
Apples have red skins, oranges have orange skin, one has a core and one does not.
Both have stems... Both are fruit....
Saying you can't compare two things and then listing off opinion statements does not make a true statement.
It makes an opinion statement.
Yep and because FFXI has changed so much and evolved into something really great while WoW has remained fail and only gotten worse gives me plenty of room for argument and also because you PROBABLY don't even play FFXI now to even notice the changes.
Rise of Zilart LOL that was in 2003 LOL
Yep... obviously you didn't play FFXI then because you'd know that the US release was with the first Exp pack, not before then...
When I started playing there were only Japanese Players...
Endgame the same all over, just with a different skin. What make endgame somewhat enjoyable is the ingame friends you make on the way, the guild you constantly chat in and the social aspect with teamspeak. Atleast that's what work for me. The raids and eternal grind for better gear is just something to do while you chat crap with people. Actually, mmo's are more interactive chat programs than games for me
Originally posted by Jerid13 So you didn't enjoy making your character get stronger? Scalable enemies does not negate my argument, rather it reinforces it, if enemies didn't get harder you couldn't get stronger to over come them... The point is that you said you spent 100's of hours playing an RPG, thats grinding, thats level building.
Making your character stronger isn't bad, per se. The problem is that an end game built around making your character stronger means an extremely repetitive and grindy endgame. The grinding and repetition are what's bad.
Spending hundreds of hours on a game isn't intrinsically grinding. Or do you want to argue that all that time I spent playing Tecmo Super Bowl, I was really just grinding levels in, err, what, exactly?
Wrong, read my post on page 3 at the top about FFXI and have a great day.
{ Mod Edit }.
Being an FFXI fanboy doesn't make you perfect. Maybe grouping is easier, but I bet travel times still stink and that grouping can still be a major pain if you can't find a healer or tank. I also can tell that it is still mega-grindy. Sure, the combat system is nice, but I don't really care for the "go to location X and kill guys for hours over and over again to gain a level." That DOES get old. The complete lack of single-player content, so if you want to explore you HAVE to get a full group, is not a lot of fun either. As for the crafting system, I can't believe you are advocating a system where you have a random chance to skill up and a random chance to fail and lose all of your mats. The crafting system in FFXI is TERRIBLE, the "hard" thing is just that it is a MASSIVE time and money sink. That's it. I'm not saying FFXI doesn't have it's good points -- I love the elemental combos, but it is far from a perfect game.
Sorry bro.
Level sync fixed all that. Any tank online or healer being level 75 can party and level sync with a level 10, drop their level down and exp for however long they want.
And there's ALWAYS over 2.2k people on pretty much every server always, japanese chinese americans just like WoW lmao
I play end game and also level new jobs and never had problems finding anything, you can ask any tank of the 600 tanks online to participate in any level party LOL every idiot WoW fanboy always has that argument how the heck would you know, I play FFXI you don't.
I played it years ago. Maybe that one thing has changed, but you failed to address all of my other points. Apparently I'm an "idiot WoW Fanboy" to you because I don't like WoW or FFXI.
The question is, is the MMORPG Made for its leveing TO endgame, or FOR its endgame. A game like DAoC Was FOR its Endgame, WAR as well, you want to get there so you can take over things and smash foes and PVP your brains out, Darkfall is like this too, no one plays darkfall because they love spamming their left mouse button to see .1 skill gains. Everyone plays these games for the unique experiance they have AFTER the work you put in. Games like FFXI and WoW have a large following of people who enjoy the journey, I know a lot of WoW players havn't even seen Endgame, and a lot o FFXI players too. Endgame in FFXI and WoW are more like traditional RPG's, you go in the dungeons and you kill the horrors you encounter and your characters get stronger through finding rare artifacts. Like old school table top DND once your characters hit 20.
An Ideal game would blend these two concepts, having things that allowed for level building betting of your character both superfically (graphically for instance) and in the characters actual power. No one would play WoW's endgame if they didn't keep making new gear and just let you kill new bosses. They need to throw in more elements of an open ended player run game like EvE, Darkfall, and in some ways DAoC, UO, and Warhammer.
So basicly a game where nations can battle nations with realish concequences but they constantly add in new ways to better your toons to make you want to get stronger and faster and better.
If we didn't desire to become stronger and faster and better then people wouldn't body build or watch Nascar or do Yoga, its part of who we are. Its almost our driving force as human beings to seek to better ourselves.
Sorry you cannot even put FFXI in the same category as WoW bro, it's light years ahead of WoW in design, and keeping the players attention span for about 100x longer than WoW.
Seriously I play end game FFXI AND WoW WoTLK.... trying to compare WoW to FFXI is like comparing FFXI (the supreme buffet) to someone who participated in an upside down hotdog eating regurgitation tournament and the top 3 winners regurgitation is saved for a finale on fear factor.
I've played WoW since right after BC came out and I've played FFXI since it was released in the US with the Zilart exp pack.
People say you can't compare apples and oranges, but you really can.
Apples have red skins, oranges have orange skin, one has a core and one does not.
Both have stems... Both are fruit....
Saying you can't compare two things and then listing off opinion statements does not make a true statement.
It makes an opinion statement.
Yep and because FFXI has changed so much and evolved into something really great while WoW has remained fail and only gotten worse gives me plenty of room for argument and also because you PROBABLY don't even play FFXI now to even notice the changes.
Rise of Zilart LOL that was in 2003 LOL
Yep... obviously you didn't play FFXI then because you'd know that the US release was with the first Exp pack, not before then...
When I started playing there were only Japanese Players...
Your losing your credibility by the second.
Who said I didn't know that? You're stupid.. I played back in the days of camping Leaping Lizard anf Valkurm Emperor for NON RARE/EX items to sell on the AH and STILL play to this day, and no sir you lost your credability because you don't know crap about CoP TAOU or WOTG.
Yeah dude I LOST my credability when I explained the damn game to an art in my first long post at the top of page 3 and all you post is stupid crap like "it sux I played eit when riz of zeewart reweazed lulz
Originally posted by Jerid13 So you didn't enjoy making your character get stronger? Scalable enemies does not negate my argument, rather it reinforces it, if enemies didn't get harder you couldn't get stronger to over come them... The point is that you said you spent 100's of hours playing an RPG, thats grinding, thats level building.
Making your character stronger isn't bad, per se. The problem is that an end game built around making your character stronger means an extremely repetitive and grindy endgame. The grinding and repetition are what's bad.
Spending hundreds of hours on a game isn't intrinsically grinding. Or do you want to argue that all that time I spent playing Tecmo Super Bowl, I was really just grinding levels in, err, what, exactly?
Wrong, read my post on page 3 at the top about FFXI and have a great day.
{ Mod Edit }.
Being an FFXI fanboy doesn't make you perfect. Maybe grouping is easier, but I bet travel times still stink and that grouping can still be a major pain if you can't find a healer or tank. I also can tell that it is still mega-grindy. Sure, the combat system is nice, but I don't really care for the "go to location X and kill guys for hours over and over again to gain a level." That DOES get old. The complete lack of single-player content, so if you want to explore you HAVE to get a full group, is not a lot of fun either. As for the crafting system, I can't believe you are advocating a system where you have a random chance to skill up and a random chance to fail and lose all of your mats. The crafting system in FFXI is TERRIBLE, the "hard" thing is just that it is a MASSIVE time and money sink. That's it. I'm not saying FFXI doesn't have it's good points -- I love the elemental combos, but it is far from a perfect game.
Sorry bro.
Level sync fixed all that. Any tank online or healer being level 75 can party and level sync with a level 10, drop their level down and exp for however long they want.
And there's ALWAYS over 2.2k people on pretty much every server always, japanese chinese americans just like WoW lmao
I play end game and also level new jobs and never had problems finding anything, you can ask any tank of the 600 tanks online to participate in any level party LOL every idiot WoW fanboy always has that argument how the heck would you know, I play FFXI you don't.
I played it years ago. Maybe that one thing has changed, but you failed to address all of my other points. Apparently I'm an "idiot WoW Fanboy" to you because I don't like WoW or FFXI.
You maybe used to not like it, I used to not be fond of it, but it's evolved like I said and will not repeat in a hundred posts for idiots like you who don't read everything to miss, EVOLVED into a magical beautiful game
Today I was seeking on my level 59 warrior for about 5 minutes, I asked a level 13 summoner if they needed a warrior and they said "yes please."
I proceded to outpost warp to the dunes, took me all of 1 minute to run to the party from the outpost, I then joined his party and my level was set to level 13.
I proceded to shoot monsters with a cross bow and bring them back to the party to kill them, time and time again, people left whenever they had to go and we EASILY found replacements, at any level range.
Once we had our first party member leave we found a level 14 warrior to come and join up in our party (the lowest member of our party had already hit 17 so we went back down to 14 syncing to the new party member) So I managed to stay and party in "Valkrum Dunes" for a good 3 hours getting 24 thousand experiance points.
So, if you like FFXI's combat system and you enjoy the community, there is NO REASON NOT TO PLAY.
NO MORE SEEKING IN JEUNO FOR 4 HOURS.
Best part is I got a friend to start playing and this time around I can actually play with them!
The instant they get to 10 I take em out to valkrum dunes and we party all the way up as high as we can manage!
I got her to level 24 whm before we decided to go get her sub job items, never having left the Dunes.
They added in hourly quests that give you money and experiance points, that you can do WHILE grouping.
The economy is stable!
They buffed how much exp Easy Prey monsters give you!!
ARG!!!!
NO REASON NOT TO PLAY!!
Sorry if I'm gushing a tad...
anywho... I highly suggest you all check out FFXI if you ever had an interest to!
P.S. To the other guy who plays FFXI and for some reason thinks he knows more than me, congrats... Now you write a positive review and see who gets more people to play.
To explain how FFXI has changed: Today I was seeking on my level 59 warrior for about 5 minutes, I asked a level 13 summoner if they needed a warrior and they said "yes please." I proceded to outpost warp to the dunes, took me all of 1 minute to run to the party from the outpost, I then joined his party and my level was set to level 13. I proceded to shoot monsters with a cross bow and bring them back to the party to kill them, time and time again, people left whenever they had to go and we EASILY found replacements, at any level range. Once we had our first party member leave we found a level 14 warrior to come and join up in our party (the lowest member of our party had already hit 17 so we went back down to 14 syncing to the new party member) So I managed to stay and party in "Valkrum Dunes" for a good 3 hours getting 24 thousand experiance points. So, if you like FFXI's combat system and you enjoy the community, there is NO REASON NOT TO PLAY. NO MORE SEEKING IN JEUNO FOR 4 HOURS. Best part is I got a friend to start playing and this time around I can actually play with them! The instant they get to 10 I take em out to valkrum dunes and we party all the way up as high as we can manage! I got her to level 24 whm before we decided to go get her sub job items, never having left the Dunes.
They added in hourly quests that give you money and experiance points, that you can do WHILE grouping. The economy is stable! They buffed how much exp Easy Prey monsters give you!!
ARG!!!! NO REASON NOT TO PLAY!!
Sorry if I'm gushing a tad... anywho... I highly suggest you all check out FFXI if you ever had an interest to!
P.S. To the other guy who plays FFXI and for some reason thinks he knows more than me, congrats... Now you write a positive review and see who gets more people to play
So you didn't enjoy making your character get stronger? Scalable enemies does not negate my argument, rather it reinforces it, if enemies didn't get harder you couldn't get stronger to over come them... The point is that you said you spent 100's of hours playing an RPG, thats grinding, thats level building.
Thanks for agreeing
I enjoyed making my characters stronger and getting new abilities which opened up new avenues of tactics, yes. It's not really that enjoyable when all those final levels don't even offer a new ability and just increase your health, damage, and defensive values.
I didn't enjoy having to grind out levels.
I didn't enjoy it when I outleveled the enemies greatly and they provided no challenge.
Spending over 100 hours (I never said 100s) of playing a RPG is not grinding or level building. There are other aspects of RPGs besides that. Exploration, Character Building (other than levels - I'm talking about through history and deeds), Questing, Combat, etc. In Obilivion for instance you could play for several hours just building character relationships up without ever getting a single experience point. Check almost any MMO tavern on a RP server and you'll see people who stay at beginner levels and ROLEPLAY with other roleplayers .
So you didn't enjoy making your character get stronger? Scalable enemies does not negate my argument, rather it reinforces it, if enemies didn't get harder you couldn't get stronger to over come them... The point is that you said you spent 100's of hours playing an RPG, thats grinding, thats level building.
Thanks for agreeing
I enjoyed making my characters stronger and getting new abilities which opened up new avenues of tactics, yes. It's not really that enjoyable when all those final levels don't even offer a new ability and just increase your health, damage, and defensive values.
I didn't enjoy having to grind out levels.
I didn't enjoy it when I outleveled the enemies greatly and they provided no challenge.
Spending over 100 hours (I never said 100s) of playing a RPG is not grinding or level building. There are other aspects of RPGs besides that. Exploration, Character Building (other than levels - I'm talking about through history and deeds), Questing, Combat, etc. In Obilivion for instance you could play for several hours just building character relationships up without ever getting a single experience point. Check almost any MMO tavern on a RP server and you'll see people who stay at beginner levels and ROLEPLAY with other roleplayers .
You could in Oblvion go through the game at the very begining and never do any side quests or dungeons or anything and just do the story they set you on in the begining.
I've never met anyone who did...
My point is that a lot of people look at life as though the Journey is what is most important not the destination.
Those people are the ones who will agree with me.
Your more of a destination kinda person it seems, which is totally fine, but what appeals to me won't to you.
For me it's just the old go kill 10 wolves kinda of quests that i cant take anymore.
None of that in FFXI.
Actually the main reason it's so fun is because it's forced group play, and no, doing a bajillion quests killing X mobs, return to NPC, turn in etc.
It's just partying, learning your class, knowing how to poisona someone so they can keep up resting after each fight or casting erase because someone got a dot on them and you cannot rest with a dot on you, knowing how class mechanics work, knowing how haste and shadows work with nins.
Knowing how bards aoes work and knowing how to keep casters split from melee so they get different bard buffs.
Knowing how to paralyna a tank so he don't die at a crucial moment when trying to cast shadows, or trying to provoke and get the voke aggro ability reset by a "paralyzed" to have your healer grab aggro and die.
Knowing a good enfeeble refresh rotation for RDM while nuking and tossing off heals while at the same time conserving enough MP to keep the exp coming in.
Knowing how to properly count shadows as ninja while rotating ni and ichi cooldowns without taking many if ANY hits, to be praised by your party for superb performance.
Knowing how to make money, and what to farm, not just anyone can make money, you need a huge knowledge of the market, what mobs drop what, where in the heck they drop, and most of the mobs can't be soloed, so you need a group, and split the huge profits. A lot of the mobs require 6 sometimes 18 people to kill, even if you know the fight and are well geared, since FFXI isn't nearly as gear based as WoW, you can still fail, it's MORE about skill and knowledge.
I've seen great geared 18 man groups try to take down nidhogg and cause a spike flail, or KS99 WYRM and wipe because 1 person out of 18 wasn't doing their job, they didn't cast barfira, and didn't spam curagas during the wym flight phase to keep the group up from taking dragons breath frontal aoe. Even if they do get him to 75% he goes into flight and cannot be hit by melee, only caster/ranged, so an unprepared group will lack the dps a prepared one will..
Dude the mechanics I can go on all day about, it's awesome and a lot of the stuff I mentioned can even be overlooked by near-veterans, because a lot of fights are so fast paced and 1 accidentally wrong pressed hotkey can cost the fight.
You could in Oblvion go through the game at the very begining and never do any side quests or dungeons or anything and just do the story they set you on in the begining. I've never met anyone who did... My point is that a lot of people look at life as though the Journey is what is most important not the destination. Those people are the ones who will agree with me. Your more of a destination kinda person it seems, which is totally fine, but what appeals to me won't to you.
I really don't think you are getting it though. I didn't even complete the story in Oblivion after 100+ hours. If I was a person who cared more about the desitination then the journey then I would have immediately went and completed the story in the 20 or so hours it takes and completely bypass all the side quests/dungeons.
Grinding out levels has nothing to do with journey/destination. If anything grinding to max level is more about the destination then the journey. You want to hit max level. You are focusing on hitting max level. While I can't speak for the type of person you are (like you are trying to do with me?) since I don't know you well enough, someone whose intent is to hit the max level will bypass some of that "Journey" in order to reach it. Admittly when I play MMOs I'm a power gamer who blows through content and trys to hit max level ASAP. I like the sense of accomplishment I get from server firsts and such. When I play single player RPGs I play entirely different. I talk to every single NPC and read every bit of dialogue. I insist on opening every single treasure chest and running around the map looking for secrets and hidden treaures. I enjoy exploration, story, and character development.
However when it comes down to it I can't stand having to grind out levels. I perfer if anything character advancement and level grinding to be implemented unnoticably throughout the story. World of Warcraft is actually good at this (at least your first playthrough) in that you always have quests/dungeons/new areas while leveling (although kill and collection style quests are cleverly disguised grinding). If I have to grind out levels just to accomplish something else in the game that's just tedious. If I'm grinding out those levels while doing a major quest or clearing out a complex dungeon (as opposed to walking around waiting for an encounter) then it's not tedious. I mean the word "grind" in and of itself implies tedium.
Comments
I have fun by facing a challenge and being rewarded in some way for overcoming it. If I don't do eng-game raiding in WoW, then there is no fun. If I do Eng-game raiding in WoW then that raiding itself removes the challenge of end-game raiding (and not using upgraded gear would remove the reward). I don't know where this fun in WoW that you speak of is. (And yes, I've two-manned most of MC with my brother -- pally tank can't heal-tank the last boss though, and done other things to try to find some fun, but it just isn't there really).
Making your character stronger isn't bad, per se. The problem is that an end game built around making your character stronger means an extremely repetitive and grindy endgame. The grinding and repetition are what's bad.
Spending hundreds of hours on a game isn't intrinsically grinding. Or do you want to argue that all that time I spent playing Tecmo Super Bowl, I was really just grinding levels in, err, what, exactly?
Making your character stronger isn't bad, per se. The problem is that an end game built around making your character stronger means an extremely repetitive and grindy endgame. The grinding and repetition are what's bad.
Spending hundreds of hours on a game isn't intrinsically grinding. Or do you want to argue that all that time I spent playing Tecmo Super Bowl, I was really just grinding levels in, err, what, exactly?
Wrong, read my post on page 3 at the top about FFXI and have a great day.
{ Mod Edit }
The question is, is the MMORPG Made for its leveing TO endgame, or FOR its endgame.
A game like DAoC Was FOR its Endgame, WAR as well, you want to get there so you can take over things and smash foes and PVP your brains out, Darkfall is like this too, no one plays darkfall because they love spamming their left mouse button to see .1 skill gains.
Everyone plays these games for the unique experiance they have AFTER the work you put in.
Games like FFXI and WoW have a large following of people who enjoy the journey, I know a lot of WoW players havn't even seen Endgame, and a lot o FFXI players too.
Endgame in FFXI and WoW are more like traditional RPG's, you go in the dungeons and you kill the horrors you encounter and your characters get stronger through finding rare artifacts.
Like old school table top DND once your characters hit 20.
An Ideal game would blend these two concepts, having things that allowed for level building betting of your character both superfically (graphically for instance) and in the characters actual power.
No one would play WoW's endgame if they didn't keep making new gear and just let you kill new bosses.
They need to throw in more elements of an open ended player run game like EvE, Darkfall, and in some ways DAoC, UO, and Warhammer.
So basicly a game where nations can battle nations with realish concequences but they constantly add in new ways to better your toons to make you want to get stronger and faster and better.
If we didn't desire to become stronger and faster and better then people wouldn't body build or watch Nascar or do Yoga, its part of who we are. Its almost our driving force as human beings to seek to better ourselves.
Oh and about the Oblivion example, I've played Morrowind Oblivion and Fallout 3, I really like Bethsea studios (sp?) and the reason I say that their games are about level building is obvious, its carefully calculated and you can plan out how you wan your charcter to develop and that generally is the main reason people enjoy those games so much, that and the massive world to explore, of which I am a huge fan.
Exploration and Level building go hand in hand.
Sorry you cannot even put FFXI in the same category as WoW bro, it's light years ahead of WoW in design, and keeping the players attention span for about 100x longer than WoW.
Seriously I play end game FFXI AND WoW WoTLK.... trying to compare WoW to FFXI is like comparing FFXI (the supreme buffet) to someone who participated in an upside down hotdog eating regurgitation tournament and the top 3 winners regurgitation is saved for a finale on fear factor.
Well i came back to this thread to give the OP another game he can try and noticed that it's off topic now and not sure he will even look here anymore but I still suggest a game i guess.
Try out Ryzom, www.ryzom.com, check out the webpage for details cause i'm tired and too lazy to type everything about it on here but it's sandboxish. Level skill and no classes etc etc. and shape the world and and that good stuff. Crafting that matters and player driven economy and it's free for a little bit longer but not sure how much longer before it gets back to p2p. Go check it out if you are actually gonna make it to this post
.
-cheers
Making your character stronger isn't bad, per se. The problem is that an end game built around making your character stronger means an extremely repetitive and grindy endgame. The grinding and repetition are what's bad.
Spending hundreds of hours on a game isn't intrinsically grinding. Or do you want to argue that all that time I spent playing Tecmo Super Bowl, I was really just grinding levels in, err, what, exactly?
Wrong, read my post on page 3 at the top about FFXI and have a great day.
{ Mod Edit }
Being an FFXI fanboy doesn't make you perfect. Maybe grouping is easier, but I bet travel times still stink and that grouping can still be a major pain if you can't find a healer or tank. I also can tell that it is still mega-grindy. Sure, the combat system is nice, but I don't really care for the "go to location X and kill guys for hours over and over again to gain a level." That DOES get old. The complete lack of single-player content, so if you want to explore you HAVE to get a full group, is not a lot of fun either. As for the crafting system, I can't believe you are advocating a system where you have a random chance to skill up and a random chance to fail and lose all of your mats. The crafting system in FFXI is TERRIBLE, the "hard" thing is just that it is a MASSIVE time and money sink. That's it. I'm not saying FFXI doesn't have it's good points -- I love the elemental combos, but it is far from a perfect game.
Making your character stronger isn't bad, per se. The problem is that an end game built around making your character stronger means an extremely repetitive and grindy endgame. The grinding and repetition are what's bad.
Spending hundreds of hours on a game isn't intrinsically grinding. Or do you want to argue that all that time I spent playing Tecmo Super Bowl, I was really just grinding levels in, err, what, exactly?
Wrong, read my post on page 3 at the top about FFXI and have a great day.
{ Mod Edit }.
Being an FFXI fanboy doesn't make you perfect. Maybe grouping is easier, but I bet travel times still stink and that grouping can still be a major pain if you can't find a healer or tank. I also can tell that it is still mega-grindy. Sure, the combat system is nice, but I don't really care for the "go to location X and kill guys for hours over and over again to gain a level." That DOES get old. The complete lack of single-player content, so if you want to explore you HAVE to get a full group, is not a lot of fun either. As for the crafting system, I can't believe you are advocating a system where you have a random chance to skill up and a random chance to fail and lose all of your mats. The crafting system in FFXI is TERRIBLE, the "hard" thing is just that it is a MASSIVE time and money sink. That's it. I'm not saying FFXI doesn't have it's good points -- I love the elemental combos, but it is far from a perfect game.
Sorry bro.
Level sync fixed all that. Any tank online or healer being level 75 can party and level sync with a level 10, drop their level down and exp for however long they want.
And there's ALWAYS over 2.2k people on pretty much every server always, japanese chinese americans just like WoW lmao
I play end game and also level new jobs and never had problems finding anything, you can ask any tank of the 600 tanks online to participate in any level party LOL every idiot WoW fanboy always has that argument how the heck would you know, I play FFXI you don't.
Sorry you cannot even put FFXI in the same category as WoW bro, it's light years ahead of WoW in design, and keeping the players attention span for about 100x longer than WoW.
Seriously I play end game FFXI AND WoW WoTLK.... trying to compare WoW to FFXI is like comparing FFXI (the supreme buffet) to someone who participated in an upside down hotdog eating regurgitation tournament and the top 3 winners regurgitation is saved for a finale on fear factor.
I've played WoW since right after BC came out and I've played FFXI since it was released in the US with the Zilart exp pack.
People say you can't compare apples and oranges, but you really can.
Apples have red skins, oranges have orange skin, one has a core and one does not.
Both have stems... Both are fruit....
Saying you can't compare two things and then listing off opinion statements does not make a true statement.
It makes an opinion statement.
Sorry you cannot even put FFXI in the same category as WoW bro, it's light years ahead of WoW in design, and keeping the players attention span for about 100x longer than WoW.
Seriously I play end game FFXI AND WoW WoTLK.... trying to compare WoW to FFXI is like comparing FFXI (the supreme buffet) to someone who participated in an upside down hotdog eating regurgitation tournament and the top 3 winners regurgitation is saved for a finale on fear factor.
I've played WoW since right after BC came out and I've played FFXI since it was released in the US with the Zilart exp pack.
People say you can't compare apples and oranges, but you really can.
Apples have red skins, oranges have orange skin, one has a core and one does not.
Both have stems... Both are fruit....
Saying you can't compare two things and then listing off opinion statements does not make a true statement.
It makes an opinion statement.
Yep and because FFXI has changed so much and evolved into something really great while WoW has remained fail and only gotten worse gives me plenty of room for argument and also because you PROBABLY don't even play FFXI now to even notice the changes.
Rise of Zilart LOL that was in 2003 LOL
Sorry you cannot even put FFXI in the same category as WoW bro, it's light years ahead of WoW in design, and keeping the players attention span for about 100x longer than WoW.
Seriously I play end game FFXI AND WoW WoTLK.... trying to compare WoW to FFXI is like comparing FFXI (the supreme buffet) to someone who participated in an upside down hotdog eating regurgitation tournament and the top 3 winners regurgitation is saved for a finale on fear factor.
I've played WoW since right after BC came out and I've played FFXI since it was released in the US with the Zilart exp pack.
People say you can't compare apples and oranges, but you really can.
Apples have red skins, oranges have orange skin, one has a core and one does not.
Both have stems... Both are fruit....
Saying you can't compare two things and then listing off opinion statements does not make a true statement.
It makes an opinion statement.
Yep and because FFXI has changed so much and evolved into something really great while WoW has remained fail and only gotten worse gives me plenty of room for argument and also because you PROBABLY don't even play FFXI now to even notice the changes.
Rise of Zilart LOL that was in 2003 LOL
Yep... obviously you didn't play FFXI then because you'd know that the US release was with the first Exp pack, not before then...
When I started playing there were only Japanese Players...
Your losing your credibility by the second.
Endgame the same all over, just with a different skin. What make endgame somewhat enjoyable is the ingame friends you make on the way, the guild you constantly chat in and the social aspect with teamspeak. Atleast that's what work for me. The raids and eternal grind for better gear is just something to do while you chat crap with people. Actually, mmo's are more interactive chat programs than games for me
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
Look the OP wanted some facts about some games to see what he wanted to play, I gave a huge list that described Pro's and Cons of a lot of games.
This would be on topic.
Yes you can compare any game to any other game, they are both games, its not like your comparing getting a root canal to building a sky scarper.
FFXI has drastically improved over the years yes, while WoW has pretty much just adjusted the formal they already had that worked.
FFXI has been fixing all the things people hated about it from day one since day one.
Now its finally to the point where I'll suggest people who consider themselves "casual" play it.
OP Try out FFXI, its totally worth a free trial.
Making your character stronger isn't bad, per se. The problem is that an end game built around making your character stronger means an extremely repetitive and grindy endgame. The grinding and repetition are what's bad.
Spending hundreds of hours on a game isn't intrinsically grinding. Or do you want to argue that all that time I spent playing Tecmo Super Bowl, I was really just grinding levels in, err, what, exactly?
Wrong, read my post on page 3 at the top about FFXI and have a great day.
{ Mod Edit }.
Being an FFXI fanboy doesn't make you perfect. Maybe grouping is easier, but I bet travel times still stink and that grouping can still be a major pain if you can't find a healer or tank. I also can tell that it is still mega-grindy. Sure, the combat system is nice, but I don't really care for the "go to location X and kill guys for hours over and over again to gain a level." That DOES get old. The complete lack of single-player content, so if you want to explore you HAVE to get a full group, is not a lot of fun either. As for the crafting system, I can't believe you are advocating a system where you have a random chance to skill up and a random chance to fail and lose all of your mats. The crafting system in FFXI is TERRIBLE, the "hard" thing is just that it is a MASSIVE time and money sink. That's it. I'm not saying FFXI doesn't have it's good points -- I love the elemental combos, but it is far from a perfect game.
Sorry bro.
Level sync fixed all that. Any tank online or healer being level 75 can party and level sync with a level 10, drop their level down and exp for however long they want.
And there's ALWAYS over 2.2k people on pretty much every server always, japanese chinese americans just like WoW lmao
I play end game and also level new jobs and never had problems finding anything, you can ask any tank of the 600 tanks online to participate in any level party LOL every idiot WoW fanboy always has that argument how the heck would you know, I play FFXI you don't.
I played it years ago. Maybe that one thing has changed, but you failed to address all of my other points. Apparently I'm an "idiot WoW Fanboy" to you because I don't like WoW or FFXI.
Sorry you cannot even put FFXI in the same category as WoW bro, it's light years ahead of WoW in design, and keeping the players attention span for about 100x longer than WoW.
Seriously I play end game FFXI AND WoW WoTLK.... trying to compare WoW to FFXI is like comparing FFXI (the supreme buffet) to someone who participated in an upside down hotdog eating regurgitation tournament and the top 3 winners regurgitation is saved for a finale on fear factor.
I've played WoW since right after BC came out and I've played FFXI since it was released in the US with the Zilart exp pack.
People say you can't compare apples and oranges, but you really can.
Apples have red skins, oranges have orange skin, one has a core and one does not.
Both have stems... Both are fruit....
Saying you can't compare two things and then listing off opinion statements does not make a true statement.
It makes an opinion statement.
Yep and because FFXI has changed so much and evolved into something really great while WoW has remained fail and only gotten worse gives me plenty of room for argument and also because you PROBABLY don't even play FFXI now to even notice the changes.
Rise of Zilart LOL that was in 2003 LOL
Yep... obviously you didn't play FFXI then because you'd know that the US release was with the first Exp pack, not before then...
When I started playing there were only Japanese Players...
Your losing your credibility by the second.
Who said I didn't know that? You're stupid.. I played back in the days of camping Leaping Lizard anf Valkurm Emperor for NON RARE/EX items to sell on the AH and STILL play to this day, and no sir you lost your credability because you don't know crap about CoP TAOU or WOTG.
Yeah dude I LOST my credability when I explained the damn game to an art in my first long post at the top of page 3 and all you post is stupid crap like "it sux I played eit when riz of zeewart reweazed lulz
Making your character stronger isn't bad, per se. The problem is that an end game built around making your character stronger means an extremely repetitive and grindy endgame. The grinding and repetition are what's bad.
Spending hundreds of hours on a game isn't intrinsically grinding. Or do you want to argue that all that time I spent playing Tecmo Super Bowl, I was really just grinding levels in, err, what, exactly?
Wrong, read my post on page 3 at the top about FFXI and have a great day.
{ Mod Edit }.
Being an FFXI fanboy doesn't make you perfect. Maybe grouping is easier, but I bet travel times still stink and that grouping can still be a major pain if you can't find a healer or tank. I also can tell that it is still mega-grindy. Sure, the combat system is nice, but I don't really care for the "go to location X and kill guys for hours over and over again to gain a level." That DOES get old. The complete lack of single-player content, so if you want to explore you HAVE to get a full group, is not a lot of fun either. As for the crafting system, I can't believe you are advocating a system where you have a random chance to skill up and a random chance to fail and lose all of your mats. The crafting system in FFXI is TERRIBLE, the "hard" thing is just that it is a MASSIVE time and money sink. That's it. I'm not saying FFXI doesn't have it's good points -- I love the elemental combos, but it is far from a perfect game.
Sorry bro.
Level sync fixed all that. Any tank online or healer being level 75 can party and level sync with a level 10, drop their level down and exp for however long they want.
And there's ALWAYS over 2.2k people on pretty much every server always, japanese chinese americans just like WoW lmao
I play end game and also level new jobs and never had problems finding anything, you can ask any tank of the 600 tanks online to participate in any level party LOL every idiot WoW fanboy always has that argument how the heck would you know, I play FFXI you don't.
I played it years ago. Maybe that one thing has changed, but you failed to address all of my other points. Apparently I'm an "idiot WoW Fanboy" to you because I don't like WoW or FFXI.
You maybe used to not like it, I used to not be fond of it, but it's evolved like I said and will not repeat in a hundred posts for idiots like you who don't read everything to miss, EVOLVED into a magical beautiful game
To explain how FFXI has changed:
Today I was seeking on my level 59 warrior for about 5 minutes, I asked a level 13 summoner if they needed a warrior and they said "yes please."
I proceded to outpost warp to the dunes, took me all of 1 minute to run to the party from the outpost, I then joined his party and my level was set to level 13.
I proceded to shoot monsters with a cross bow and bring them back to the party to kill them, time and time again, people left whenever they had to go and we EASILY found replacements, at any level range.
Once we had our first party member leave we found a level 14 warrior to come and join up in our party (the lowest member of our party had already hit 17 so we went back down to 14 syncing to the new party member) So I managed to stay and party in "Valkrum Dunes" for a good 3 hours getting 24 thousand experiance points.
So, if you like FFXI's combat system and you enjoy the community, there is NO REASON NOT TO PLAY.
NO MORE SEEKING IN JEUNO FOR 4 HOURS.
Best part is I got a friend to start playing and this time around I can actually play with them!
The instant they get to 10 I take em out to valkrum dunes and we party all the way up as high as we can manage!
I got her to level 24 whm before we decided to go get her sub job items, never having left the Dunes.
They added in hourly quests that give you money and experiance points, that you can do WHILE grouping.
The economy is stable!
They buffed how much exp Easy Prey monsters give you!!
ARG!!!!
NO REASON NOT TO PLAY!!
Sorry if I'm gushing a tad...
anywho... I highly suggest you all check out FFXI if you ever had an interest to!
P.S. To the other guy who plays FFXI and for some reason thinks he knows more than me, congrats... Now you write a positive review and see who gets more people to play.
SO TRUE I LOVE U MAN LOL
there is very good posts along the way in this one and i will have to agree the
level building thing, im always up for building up my toon rather than running one place over and over agian to get
some item, so m0lly says level building is what its need to be, i remember starting baldurs gate and morrowind , oblivion etc
many times from start cause i like leveling.
cheers peeps
I enjoyed making my characters stronger and getting new abilities which opened up new avenues of tactics, yes. It's not really that enjoyable when all those final levels don't even offer a new ability and just increase your health, damage, and defensive values.
I didn't enjoy having to grind out levels.
I didn't enjoy it when I outleveled the enemies greatly and they provided no challenge.
Spending over 100 hours (I never said 100s) of playing a RPG is not grinding or level building. There are other aspects of RPGs besides that. Exploration, Character Building (other than levels - I'm talking about through history and deeds), Questing, Combat, etc. In Obilivion for instance you could play for several hours just building character relationships up without ever getting a single experience point. Check almost any MMO tavern on a RP server and you'll see people who stay at beginner levels and ROLEPLAY with other roleplayers .
I enjoyed making my characters stronger and getting new abilities which opened up new avenues of tactics, yes. It's not really that enjoyable when all those final levels don't even offer a new ability and just increase your health, damage, and defensive values.
I didn't enjoy having to grind out levels.
I didn't enjoy it when I outleveled the enemies greatly and they provided no challenge.
Spending over 100 hours (I never said 100s) of playing a RPG is not grinding or level building. There are other aspects of RPGs besides that. Exploration, Character Building (other than levels - I'm talking about through history and deeds), Questing, Combat, etc. In Obilivion for instance you could play for several hours just building character relationships up without ever getting a single experience point. Check almost any MMO tavern on a RP server and you'll see people who stay at beginner levels and ROLEPLAY with other roleplayers .
You could in Oblvion go through the game at the very begining and never do any side quests or dungeons or anything and just do the story they set you on in the begining.
I've never met anyone who did...
My point is that a lot of people look at life as though the Journey is what is most important not the destination.
Those people are the ones who will agree with me.
Your more of a destination kinda person it seems, which is totally fine, but what appeals to me won't to you.
For me it's just the old go kill 10 wolves kinda of quests that i cant take anymore.
None of that in FFXI.
Actually the main reason it's so fun is because it's forced group play, and no, doing a bajillion quests killing X mobs, return to NPC, turn in etc.
It's just partying, learning your class, knowing how to poisona someone so they can keep up resting after each fight or casting erase because someone got a dot on them and you cannot rest with a dot on you, knowing how class mechanics work, knowing how haste and shadows work with nins.
Knowing how bards aoes work and knowing how to keep casters split from melee so they get different bard buffs.
Knowing how to paralyna a tank so he don't die at a crucial moment when trying to cast shadows, or trying to provoke and get the voke aggro ability reset by a "paralyzed" to have your healer grab aggro and die.
Knowing a good enfeeble refresh rotation for RDM while nuking and tossing off heals while at the same time conserving enough MP to keep the exp coming in.
Knowing how to properly count shadows as ninja while rotating ni and ichi cooldowns without taking many if ANY hits, to be praised by your party for superb performance.
Knowing how to make money, and what to farm, not just anyone can make money, you need a huge knowledge of the market, what mobs drop what, where in the heck they drop, and most of the mobs can't be soloed, so you need a group, and split the huge profits. A lot of the mobs require 6 sometimes 18 people to kill, even if you know the fight and are well geared, since FFXI isn't nearly as gear based as WoW, you can still fail, it's MORE about skill and knowledge.
I've seen great geared 18 man groups try to take down nidhogg and cause a spike flail, or KS99 WYRM and wipe because 1 person out of 18 wasn't doing their job, they didn't cast barfira, and didn't spam curagas during the wym flight phase to keep the group up from taking dragons breath frontal aoe. Even if they do get him to 75% he goes into flight and cannot be hit by melee, only caster/ranged, so an unprepared group will lack the dps a prepared one will..
Dude the mechanics I can go on all day about, it's awesome and a lot of the stuff I mentioned can even be overlooked by near-veterans, because a lot of fights are so fast paced and 1 accidentally wrong pressed hotkey can cost the fight.
I really don't think you are getting it though. I didn't even complete the story in Oblivion after 100+ hours. If I was a person who cared more about the desitination then the journey then I would have immediately went and completed the story in the 20 or so hours it takes and completely bypass all the side quests/dungeons.
Grinding out levels has nothing to do with journey/destination. If anything grinding to max level is more about the destination then the journey. You want to hit max level. You are focusing on hitting max level. While I can't speak for the type of person you are (like you are trying to do with me?) since I don't know you well enough, someone whose intent is to hit the max level will bypass some of that "Journey" in order to reach it. Admittly when I play MMOs I'm a power gamer who blows through content and trys to hit max level ASAP. I like the sense of accomplishment I get from server firsts and such. When I play single player RPGs I play entirely different. I talk to every single NPC and read every bit of dialogue. I insist on opening every single treasure chest and running around the map looking for secrets and hidden treaures. I enjoy exploration, story, and character development.
However when it comes down to it I can't stand having to grind out levels. I perfer if anything character advancement and level grinding to be implemented unnoticably throughout the story. World of Warcraft is actually good at this (at least your first playthrough) in that you always have quests/dungeons/new areas while leveling (although kill and collection style quests are cleverly disguised grinding). If I have to grind out levels just to accomplish something else in the game that's just tedious. If I'm grinding out those levels while doing a major quest or clearing out a complex dungeon (as opposed to walking around waiting for an encounter) then it's not tedious. I mean the word "grind" in and of itself implies tedium.