The only time these shooting are ever stopped is when some law abiding citizen happens to be carrying a handgun and is able to intercede. Popinjay looks forward to a day when armed assailants have no opposition and can run over all of us without recourse. Thanks Popinjay. You're determination is most helpful.
Maybe if you take all defensive capabilities away from the public, then they will be safe. I don't know how the logic behind that works. But Popinjay seems certain about it so lets just take his word for it.
"If you can't out wit them, report them till they're banned!"- PopinJ'
But wait, I thought it was an erroneous comparison, when I used drugs as an example? You can't possibly compare steroids to guns can you? Your proposed punishment of life in prison applies to steroids now? Leaps and bounds to get those straws. The "right" people being whom? It sounds like you are one of those that blame everything on the "elitists", woe is me the common man, I can do nothing to improve my situation or change my world. I reconcile myself over and over each night to an assault rifle and barrels of bullets. Sometimes as many as four reconciliations a night. In actuality, I don't even own a gun; but I loathe little fascists like yourself trying to tell me how to live my life. Keep the juicy self-gratification to yourself.
I think you keep trying to get cute and your point gets lost.
You claimed or suggested, that in order for guns to be elimated there would have to be some type of door-to-door bootkick ins. That is your painting of the picture. Fear mongering. Jack booted thugs coming in and scaring citizenry.
All is needed is a legal ban making it illegal to have any type of firearm. MOST law-abiding citizenry will voluntarily give up their guns, especially when the U.S. Government says they will pay dollar for dollar what they paid. They get their money back, so that's not an issue. The only other thing left is the PSYCHOlogical attachment that the holdouts have with their weapons. You know, the bumper sticker kind "Warning! This property protected by Smith and Wesson!"... those types. They don't want the money, they want guns so they would resist. If our legal recordkeeping is halfway reliable, it won't be too much of a problem to go find these folks and get those weapons back. A law abiding citizen wouldn't pull a gun on a cop, and they'd relent no matter what they say as an internet tough guy. What moron would die because the police came LEGALLY to take his guns? Insane, emotionally disturbed ones maybe.
I don't know why you'd call that fascism. There is no longer a need in this country for 'frontier justice'. Now if there are people who want to target shoot, hunt, etc.. let them do that at authorized areas where those guns stay locked up. There are many alternative forms to ensure those that love that feeling of power can still get their fix.
When I said "right people or wrong people" getting shot, what I mean is this:
Micheal J. Fox probably could care less about stem cells until he caught Parkinson's. Christopher Reeve could give a rat's behind about quads and parapalegics until he fell off that horse. MADD wasn't formed until they became actual Mother's of Drunken Driver victims. John Walsh could give two craps about child abductions as a partner in a hotel management firm until someone snatched HIS child, Adam. The point is, no one cares about most things until someone they know (or them) catches that personal hell. So far, you have not heard about any member of Congress, Senate, etc relatives gunned down in any dramas by sheer luck. But you can be sure, the first time it happens gun laws in this country will be changed almost overnight. That's what I meant and that had nothing whatsoever to do with elitism, sorry I had to spell it out for you because I thought you were smarter than that.
Sure people wouldn't like it. But you know what, that's why we have these little things in our history called Amendments. Which means to make a change, so this right to bear arms being translated in different ways wouldn't be an issue that's unconstitutional. It could happen under the right circumstances.
Wrong nutcase, wrong Senator's family, new Amendment and right law.
Originally posted by vonomous The only time these shooting are ever stopped is when some law abiding citizen happens to be carrying a handgun and is able to intercede. Popinjay looks forward to a day when armed assailants have no opposition and can run over all of us without recourse. Thanks Popinjay. You're determination is most helpful. Maybe if you take all defensive capabilities away from the public, then they will be safe. I don't know how the logic behind that works. But Popinjay seems certain about it so lets just take his word for it.
And of course, out of all the murder SUICIDES that happened in the last decade, it was always some private citizen stepping in and saving the day with a handgun as you just said, right?
Did you even bother to read the thread title?
I'll make it easy on you and I'll take YOUR word for what you just said... I can give you evidences of murder suicides involving people in the U.S., and if you can show me 10 cases in 10 years of a privately armed citizen shooting the guy/gal/lunatic and saving the day, I'll leave the thread alone. Deal?
But wait, I thought it was an erroneous comparison, when I used drugs as an example? You can't possibly compare steroids to guns can you? Your proposed punishment of life in prison applies to steroids now? Leaps and bounds to get those straws.
The "right" people being whom? It sounds like you are one of those that blame everything on the "elitists", woe is me the common man, I can do nothing to improve my situation or change my world.
I reconcile myself over and over each night to an assault rifle and barrels of bullets. Sometimes as many as four reconciliations a night. In actuality, I don't even own a gun; but I loathe little fascists like yourself trying to tell me how to live my life.
Keep the juicy self-gratification to yourself.
I think you keep trying to get cute and your point gets lost.
You claimed or suggested, that in order for guns to be elimated there would have to be some type of door-to-door bootkick ins. That is your painting of the picture. Fear mongering. Jack booted thugs coming in and scaring citizenry.
All is needed is a legal ban making it illegal to have any type of firearm. MOST law-abiding citizenry will voluntarily give up their guns, especially when the U.S. Government says they will pay dollar for dollar what they paid. They get their money back, so that's not an issue. The only other thing left is the PSYCHOlogical attachment that the holdouts have with their weapons. You know, the bumper sticker kind "Warning! This property protected by Smith and Wesson!"... those types. They don't want the money, they want guns so they would resist. If our legal recordkeeping is halfway reliable, it won't be too much of a problem to go find these folks and get those weapons back. A law abiding citizen wouldn't pull a gun on a cop, and they'd relent no matter what they say as an internet tough guy. What moron would die because the police came LEGALLY to take his guns? Insane, emotionally disturbed ones maybe.
I don't know why you'd call that fascism. There is no longer a need in this country for 'frontier justice'. Now if there are people who want to target shoot, hunt, etc.. let them do that at authorized areas where those guns stay locked up. There are many alternative forms to ensure those that love that feeling of power can still get their fix.
When I said "right people or wrong people" getting shot, what I mean is this:
Micheal J. Fox probably could care less about stem cells until he caught Parkinson's. Christopher Reeve could give a rat's behind about quads and parapalegics until he fell off that horse. MADD wasn't formed until they became actual Mother's of Drunken Driver victims. John Walsh could give two craps about child abductions as a partner in a hotel management firm until someone snatched HIS child, Adam. The point is, no one cares about most things until someone they know (or them) catches that personal hell. So far, you have not heard about any member of Congress, Senate, etc relatives gunned down in any dramas by sheer luck. But you can be sure, the first time it happens gun laws in this country will be changed almost overnight. That's what I meant and that had nothing whatsoever to do with elitism, sorry I had to spell it out for you because I thought you were smarter than that.
Sure people wouldn't like it. But you know what, that's why we have these little things in our history called Amendments. Which means to make a change, so this right to bear arms being translated in different ways wouldn't be an issue that's unconstitutional. It could happen under the right circumstances.
Wrong nutcase, wrong Senator's family, new Amendment and right law.
I'm mainly just poking fun at your fantastical view on some gun ban that could never happen, especially the more you try to talk about it. All this gun talk makes me want to go buy one. Maybe an assault rifle or something.
So when Kennedy was shot, why didn't that spur some of your "right people" mojo? He was kind of important, and was killed with a gun too.
I didn't realize that our government is going to buy every single gun out there. Tons of money to do that...
actually, there's no absolutely safe place in the world. keep away from weird ppl. in essence, i think its not very sensible for ppl to have guns in usa.
Man USA is a crazy place, land of the free? The best country in the world? USA is comparable to developing countries or even worse off when it comes to public health, no other western countries have this high amount of mass-murder incidents.
It's undeniable that the easy access to firearms in USA is one of the factors.
Man USA is a crazy place, land of the free? The best country in the world? USA is comparable to developing countries or even worse off when it comes to public health, no other western countries have this high amount of mass-murder incidents. It's undeniable that the easy access to firearms in USA is one of the factors.
Nother Ferener(hope the accent came through) that has No idea what its like in the states.
I just find it funny how many people Go nuts that we are invadeing their Culture but Wont shut up about Just how Wrong we are.
And at OP just try and take them.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. Samuel Adams
I'm mainly just poking fun at your fantastical view on some gun ban that could never happen, especially the more you try to talk about it. All this gun talk makes me want to go buy one. Maybe an assault rifle or something.
So when Kennedy was shot, why didn't that spur some of your "right people" mojo? He was kind of important, and was killed with a gun too.
I didn't realize that our government is going to buy every single gun out there. Tons of money to do that...
Kennedy was not loved by everyone I hate to tell you. The Generals in the Army hated Kennedy very badly and wished him dead (Operation Northwoods). He had little pull with the old established Democratics in Congress. He was a Catholic. He pushed civil rights hard because it was the law. Hardly anyone cared about him actually, until he died. They liked Jackie O mainly. Also, no one really knows WHO shot him (if you really believe it was Oswald.. nuff said) and it was not a common thing. That did not make most people feel less safe. There were no mass killings followed by a glorified suicide as the cherry topper back then. So why would there be a growing movement to get rid of guns in the U.S. in the 60s? From the 60s-80s, how many mass killing murdersues do you remember? Not that many. Most of the mass killings in that time did not involve guns at all. They were done by serial killers like Gacy, Heidnik, Zodiac, Unibomber, Berowitz.. guys who killed people then faded back into the American landscape.
These new killers are different. They really don't have any planning it seems other than to kill as many people as possible in a short time without escaping, worse than an Islamic terrorist. They walk around with these nutty thoughts til their bowl gets full then.. bam! Off to Walmart then a trip to the courthouse, library, high school, train station, college, last place of employment.. whereever they felt wronged or hated people. They don't try to get away, they have NO intention of surviving. This is different than conspiracy killings in the 60s. Again, why do you need me to point that out to you as an intelligent guy?
If you feel you want to buy a gun, go ahead. It's legal, lol. Don't feel like you have to buy one just to spite me though. That's kind of.. irrational. If you want to blow a grand on an assault rifle just as a goof, knock yourself out.
Are you sure you live in the U.S.? Cities here like Philly, NY, Boston, DC have been doing gun buy backs for years now. Turn in a gun and get some money. Its not much, but these guns are usually the ILLEGALLY gotten kind. They usually net several THOUSAND guns a year that people just "found". I never said this will become law. The NRA gun lobby is pretty strong in the US. But I am saying under the correct conditions, it very well could happen and if it did, I would certainly welcome it.
You're 2-3 times as likely to be killed in a car wreck, more so if you are beween 15-25.
I live in and around Detroit and I have been shot at twice in my life now, so I bought a gun- I bought several. One bullet came so close I could feel the air move across my cheek and past my ear. I'm pretty sure my right to defend myself over-rules your right to a false sense of security.
False sense of security? Lmao, you realize what you typed there is the epitome of that, right? You claim a bullet came whizzing by your face. And yet you have absolutely NO idea who shot it, where it came from and why. But yet you believe having a gun in your backpocket would have made you feel safer. So you ran out because of fear and no feeling of personal security and bought "several" guns as a result. (your own admission)
I left the rest of the story/stories out for brevity.
The point is- there are a billion guns or more in this country. If you think that passing a law is goin to make them go away, you are severely deluded. I'll tell you what- you can be the guy who goes door to door and collect all the guns after they pass the law.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
Man USA is a crazy place, land of the free? The best country in the world? USA is comparable to developing countries or even worse off when it comes to public health, no other western countries have this high amount of mass-murder incidents. It's undeniable that the easy access to firearms in USA is one of the factors.
You mean unlike Mexico, which has an almost total gun ban and is obviously much safer?
Kennedy was not loved by everyone I hate to tell you. The Generals in the Army hated Kennedy very badly and wished him dead (Operation Northwoods). He had little pull with the old established Democratics in Congress. He was a Catholic. He pushed civil rights hard because it was the law. Hardly anyone cared about him actually, until he died. They liked Jackie O mainly. Also, no one really knows WHO shot him (if you really believe it was Oswald.. nuff said) and it was not a common thing. That did not make most people feel less safe. There were no mass killings followed by a glorified suicide as the cherry topper back then. So why would there be a growing movement to get rid of guns in the U.S. in the 60s? From the 60s-80s, how many mass killing murdersues do you remember? Not that many. Most of the mass killings in that time did not involve guns at all. They were done by serial killers like Gacy, Heidnik, Zodiac, Unibomber, Berowitz.. guys who killed people then faded back into the American landscape.
These new killers are different. They really don't have any planning it seems other than to kill as many people as possible in a short time without escaping, worse than an Islamic terrorist. They walk around with these nutty thoughts til their bowl gets full then.. bam! Off to Walmart then a trip to the courthouse, library, high school, train station, college, last place of employment.. whereever they felt wronged or hated people. They don't try to get away, they have NO intention of surviving. This is different than conspiracy killings in the 60s. Again, why do you need me to point that out to you as an intelligent guy?
If you feel you want to buy a gun, go ahead. It's legal, lol. Don't feel like you have to buy one just to spite me though. That's kind of.. irrational. If you want to blow a grand on an assault rifle just as a goof, knock yourself out.
Are you sure you live in the U.S.? Cities here like Philly, NY, Boston, DC have been doing gun buy backs for years now. Turn in a gun and get some money. Its not much, but these guns are usually the ILLEGALLY gotten kind. They usually net several THOUSAND guns a year that people just "found". I never said this will become law. The NRA gun lobby is pretty strong in the US. But I am saying under the correct conditions, it very well could happen and if it did, I would certainly welcome it.
Ok, so they have to be loved by everyone now, this argument is getting more and more convoluted as you dance around for reasons why it will work. What about ole Honest Abe? He was shot in a supposed murder/suicide. Then again, not everyone loved him either. I think you might be hard-pressed to find an individual that everyone will sympathize with much less love, at least not one of these "social elite" that you so desperately need as a catalyst.
Oh no, I wouldn't buy one just to spite you, nor would I sell it back for 10% of what I paid for it. I think I live in the U.S., I retreated to my fall-out shelter so long ago, I am not sure where I am anymore.
I'd like to see some evidence of these buy-back programs and their success, has it really reduced gun crimes in those areas? No sarcasm, I'm actually interested on this.
Originally posted by Hazmal Ok, so they have to be loved by everyone now, this argument is getting more and more convoluted as you dance around for reasons why it will work. What about ole Honest Abe? He was shot in a supposed murder/suicide. Then again, not everyone loved him either. I think you might be hard-pressed to find an individual that everyone will sympathize with much less love, at least not one of these "social elite" that you so desperately need as a catalyst. Oh no, I wouldn't buy one just to spite you, nor would I sell it back for 10% of what I paid for it. I think I live in the U.S., I retreated to my fall-out shelter so long ago, I am not sure where I am anymore. I'd like to see some evidence of these buy-back programs and their success, has it really reduced gun crimes in those areas? No sarcasm, I'm actually interested on this.
The fact that you keep trying to confuse the issue is pretty hilarious.
Each example you give is of a former President of the United States LONG dead and has no bearing on modern-day MASS murder-suicides. I am starting to think that I was wrong in my assessment of your skills here. You seem to keep focusing on one person each time then pointing to that as some type of similar situation which is remotely connected to the title of the thread. I thought you were joking at first, but now I am wondering otherwise. The gun buyback program was to help in your self-professed ignorance that the government already is involved in this kind of stuff. They provide federal funding to cities under crime bills so they can run there programs. These guns are ILLEGAL (and we are not talking about illegal guns, friend) but the same type of program could be implemented for legally bought guns if a law banning all firearms was instituted. But I'll try and explain it once again:
This thread is about something called mass Murder/Suicides. The context is when an individual (NOT a conspiracy) goes out with one or multiple weapons to any normal, everyday public venue in modern day (NOT 40 - 145 years ago) or private home/business and systematically begins to shoot and kill anyone (that's called MURDER) they see and does not stop until they run out of bullets or out of victims. At the end of this rampage, they then kill THEMSELVES (thus activiting the SUICIDE portion of the title) as they had no intention of ever surrendering. This is what this discussion thread is about.
So, if you can keep it within modern time frames, (you know... sometime after personal computers or microwave ovens were invented, maybe?) and involving more than one death ending in a suicide, it might help you to focus better on the discussion. Just a few simple tips to help you along so you don't keep veering off course.
So to summarize, you have no credible sources for your buyback program or any real statistics? I ask the question and I get a nice long retort that is essentially a rant.
If you can spend the time writing your clever comparisons, surely you can ferret out some articles confirming your claims. I happen to like my comparisons, they are fun - adding a little absurdity to an already absurd plan.
Originally posted by Hazmal So to summarize, you have no credible sources for your buyback program or any real statistics? I ask the question and I get a nice long retort that is essentially a rant. If you can spend the time writing your clever comparisons, surely you can ferret out some articles confirming your claims. I happen to like my comparisons, they are fun - adding a little absurdity to an already absurd plan.
The buyback program is not the issue nor the topic. Murder-suicides are. If you wish to argue those statistics then you are welcome to make your own "Buyback gun program statitics are bogus" thread. Perhaps I will join you in it shortly, but I prefer to remain on topic discussing this and gun banning in this thread for the time being.
If you feel the need to research and chase side issues, knock yourself out. I prefer to try and stick with the topic of the thread.
It's interesting to know that you like tickling yourself, but that is really TMI imo, lol. It's illuminating to know you find laughing at your own material you write "fun", I guess. You haven't terribly informative or germaine in the post, but hey, as long as you are having "fun" poking yourself, right?
So your saying this is Obamas fault because the Economy is failing despite the fact these Murder/suicides have been going on for longer than the failing economy thing.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
The buyback program is not the issue nor the topic. Murder-suicides are. If you wish to argue those statistics then you are welcome to make your own "Buyback gun program statitics are bogus" thread. Perhaps I will join you in it shortly, but I prefer to remain on topic discussing this and gun banning in this thread for the time being.
If you feel the need to research and chase side issues, knock yourself out. I prefer to try and stick with the topic of the thread.
It's interesting to know that you like tickling yourself, but that is really TMI imo, lol. It's illuminating to know you find laughing at your own material you write "fun", I guess. You haven't terribly informative or germaine in the post, but hey, as long as you are having "fun" poking yourself, right?
The buyback plays into your plan for incentive to relinquish guns, how is that not important to the issue of a gun ban?
Anyone can pull factoids out of thin air, doesn't help an argument much, does it? To stay on topic, you want to ban guns - fine ban them. Now how to you plan on getting the current number of guns off the streets? You said a buyback has been working, I'm simply trying to explore this option. If you have no answers, only claims, just say so and we can get back to the main point.
I thought everyone poked themselves, I mean, you know what you like; so it saves a lot of time teaching another how to best tickle you. Besides, I'm tickling myself right now for the second time since typing this out. Very efficient, and fun if I do say so.
The buyback plays into your plan for incentive to relinquish guns, how is that not important to the issue of a gun ban? Anyone can pull factoids out of thin air, doesn't help an argument much, does it? To stay on topic, you want to ban guns - fine ban them. Now how to you plan on getting the current number of guns off the streets? You said a buyback has been working, I'm simply trying to explore this option. If you have no answers, only claims, just say so and we can get back to the main point. I thought everyone poked themselves, I mean, you know what you like; so it saves a lot of time teaching another how to best tickle you. Besides, I'm tickling myself right now for the second time since typing this out. Very efficient, and fun if I do say so.
It's one possible solution, which could be implemented alone or as part of an overall strategy with other ideas. It is not THE central theme to anything. Please try to follow along. The CURRENT buyback programs in some cities only takes SOME illegal guns off the street, not all of them. It is not designed to remove 100% of guns. That's like saying with all the condoms out, unwanted pregnancies shouldn't be happening. Just having condoms doesn't solve the problem. You need as someone said earlier in the thread- education, incentives and appeals to a person's sense of foresight. It is the same thing with guns.
ONE POSSIBLE SOLUTION (highlighted it that time so you see it) is that you have a buyback program dollar/dollar. The vast overwhelming majority of gun owners will go with this right away as most of them understand the law is the law. Then you have massive advertisement campaigns like how we did to get people interested in the Iraq War. Then you thrown in some good ol' fashioned horse sense to the gun nuts and show them how irrational they are to want to keep holding onto implements of destruction what primary purpose is to kill and maim other human beings. Show them that they have police agencies, military and national guards to help protect them.
You keep talking about getting guns off the street. All of these murdersues are not happening with "guns off the street". I understand your confusion with this, but they are all being committed with LEGALLY purchased guns buy 'law-abiding citizens'. Taking guns off the street doesn't change the fact that these people are still walking into shops buying them, then going on a killing spree. Once guns are banned, the average person still wanting to do this would find it extremely difficult to get some of the remaining guns floating around in the black market.
It's one possible solution, which could be implemented alone or as part of an overall strategy with other ideas. It is not THE central theme to anything. Please try to follow along. The CURRENT buyback programs in some cities only takes SOME illegal guns off the street, not all of them. It is not designed to remove 100% of guns. That's like saying with all the condoms out, unwanted pregnancies shouldn't be happening. Just having condoms doesn't solve the problem. You need as someone said earlier in the thread- education, incentives and appeals to a person's sense of foresight. It is the same thing with guns.
ONE POSSIBLE SOLUTION (highlighted it that time so you see it) is that you have a buyback program dollar/dollar. The vast overwhelming majority of gun owners will go with this right away as most of them understand the law is the law. Then you have massive advertisement campaigns like how we did to get people interested in the Iraq War. Then you thrown in some good ol' fashioned horse sense to the gun nuts and show them how irrational they are to want to keep holding onto implements of destruction what primary purpose is to kill and maim other human beings. Show them that they have police agencies, military and national guards to help protect them.
You keep talking about getting guns off the street. All of these murdersues are not happening with "guns off the street". I understand your confusion with this, but they are all being committed with LEGALLY purchased guns buy 'law-abiding citizens'. Taking guns off the street doesn't change the fact that these people are still walking into shops buying them, then going on a killing spree. Once guns are banned, the average person still wanting to do this would find it extremely difficult to get some of the remaining guns floating around in the black market.
Actually, you just capitalized - not really highlighting.
I see where I messed up, I used the term "streets". A poor choice in retrospect, I should have used something like "out there" or "currently owned guns, legit or otherwise". A plan such as this is just so ridiculous, I don't know why I'm arguing with you. So I'll concede, you win - the plan is flawless and I shall relinquish my grenades and assault rifles to the nearest Thought Pol station.
Comments
The only time these shooting are ever stopped is when some law abiding citizen happens to be carrying a handgun and is able to intercede. Popinjay looks forward to a day when armed assailants have no opposition and can run over all of us without recourse. Thanks Popinjay. You're determination is most helpful.
Maybe if you take all defensive capabilities away from the public, then they will be safe. I don't know how the logic behind that works. But Popinjay seems certain about it so lets just take his word for it.
"If you can't out wit them, report them till they're banned!"- PopinJ'
I think you keep trying to get cute and your point gets lost.
You claimed or suggested, that in order for guns to be elimated there would have to be some type of door-to-door bootkick ins. That is your painting of the picture. Fear mongering. Jack booted thugs coming in and scaring citizenry.
All is needed is a legal ban making it illegal to have any type of firearm. MOST law-abiding citizenry will voluntarily give up their guns, especially when the U.S. Government says they will pay dollar for dollar what they paid. They get their money back, so that's not an issue. The only other thing left is the PSYCHOlogical attachment that the holdouts have with their weapons. You know, the bumper sticker kind "Warning! This property protected by Smith and Wesson!"... those types. They don't want the money, they want guns so they would resist. If our legal recordkeeping is halfway reliable, it won't be too much of a problem to go find these folks and get those weapons back. A law abiding citizen wouldn't pull a gun on a cop, and they'd relent no matter what they say as an internet tough guy. What moron would die because the police came LEGALLY to take his guns? Insane, emotionally disturbed ones maybe.
I don't know why you'd call that fascism. There is no longer a need in this country for 'frontier justice'. Now if there are people who want to target shoot, hunt, etc.. let them do that at authorized areas where those guns stay locked up. There are many alternative forms to ensure those that love that feeling of power can still get their fix.
When I said "right people or wrong people" getting shot, what I mean is this:
Micheal J. Fox probably could care less about stem cells until he caught Parkinson's. Christopher Reeve could give a rat's behind about quads and parapalegics until he fell off that horse. MADD wasn't formed until they became actual Mother's of Drunken Driver victims. John Walsh could give two craps about child abductions as a partner in a hotel management firm until someone snatched HIS child, Adam. The point is, no one cares about most things until someone they know (or them) catches that personal hell. So far, you have not heard about any member of Congress, Senate, etc relatives gunned down in any dramas by sheer luck. But you can be sure, the first time it happens gun laws in this country will be changed almost overnight. That's what I meant and that had nothing whatsoever to do with elitism, sorry I had to spell it out for you because I thought you were smarter than that.
Sure people wouldn't like it. But you know what, that's why we have these little things in our history called Amendments. Which means to make a change, so this right to bear arms being translated in different ways wouldn't be an issue that's unconstitutional. It could happen under the right circumstances.
Wrong nutcase, wrong Senator's family, new Amendment and right law.
"TO MICHAEL!"
And of course, out of all the murder SUICIDES that happened in the last decade, it was always some private citizen stepping in and saving the day with a handgun as you just said, right?
Did you even bother to read the thread title?
I'll make it easy on you and I'll take YOUR word for what you just said... I can give you evidences of murder suicides involving people in the U.S., and if you can show me 10 cases in 10 years of a privately armed citizen shooting the guy/gal/lunatic and saving the day, I'll leave the thread alone. Deal?
Put your money where your jokes are, friend
"TO MICHAEL!"
I think you keep trying to get cute and your point gets lost.
You claimed or suggested, that in order for guns to be elimated there would have to be some type of door-to-door bootkick ins. That is your painting of the picture. Fear mongering. Jack booted thugs coming in and scaring citizenry.
All is needed is a legal ban making it illegal to have any type of firearm. MOST law-abiding citizenry will voluntarily give up their guns, especially when the U.S. Government says they will pay dollar for dollar what they paid. They get their money back, so that's not an issue. The only other thing left is the PSYCHOlogical attachment that the holdouts have with their weapons. You know, the bumper sticker kind "Warning! This property protected by Smith and Wesson!"... those types. They don't want the money, they want guns so they would resist. If our legal recordkeeping is halfway reliable, it won't be too much of a problem to go find these folks and get those weapons back. A law abiding citizen wouldn't pull a gun on a cop, and they'd relent no matter what they say as an internet tough guy. What moron would die because the police came LEGALLY to take his guns? Insane, emotionally disturbed ones maybe.
I don't know why you'd call that fascism. There is no longer a need in this country for 'frontier justice'. Now if there are people who want to target shoot, hunt, etc.. let them do that at authorized areas where those guns stay locked up. There are many alternative forms to ensure those that love that feeling of power can still get their fix.
When I said "right people or wrong people" getting shot, what I mean is this:
Micheal J. Fox probably could care less about stem cells until he caught Parkinson's. Christopher Reeve could give a rat's behind about quads and parapalegics until he fell off that horse. MADD wasn't formed until they became actual Mother's of Drunken Driver victims. John Walsh could give two craps about child abductions as a partner in a hotel management firm until someone snatched HIS child, Adam. The point is, no one cares about most things until someone they know (or them) catches that personal hell. So far, you have not heard about any member of Congress, Senate, etc relatives gunned down in any dramas by sheer luck. But you can be sure, the first time it happens gun laws in this country will be changed almost overnight. That's what I meant and that had nothing whatsoever to do with elitism, sorry I had to spell it out for you because I thought you were smarter than that.
Sure people wouldn't like it. But you know what, that's why we have these little things in our history called Amendments. Which means to make a change, so this right to bear arms being translated in different ways wouldn't be an issue that's unconstitutional. It could happen under the right circumstances.
Wrong nutcase, wrong Senator's family, new Amendment and right law.
I'm mainly just poking fun at your fantastical view on some gun ban that could never happen, especially the more you try to talk about it. All this gun talk makes me want to go buy one. Maybe an assault rifle or something.
So when Kennedy was shot, why didn't that spur some of your "right people" mojo? He was kind of important, and was killed with a gun too.
I didn't realize that our government is going to buy every single gun out there. Tons of money to do that...
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Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
Its an individual's tragedy. it's more a society's tragedy.
actually, there's no absolutely safe place in the world. keep away from weird ppl. in essence, i think its not very sensible for ppl to have guns in usa.
Man USA is a crazy place, land of the free? The best country in the world? USA is comparable to developing countries or even worse off when it comes to public health, no other western countries have this high amount of mass-murder incidents.
It's undeniable that the easy access to firearms in USA is one of the factors.
I CREATED MYSELF!
"<Claus|Dev> i r pk"
SW:TOR|War40K:DMO|GW2
Nother Ferener(hope the accent came through) that has No idea what its like in the states.
I just find it funny how many people Go nuts that we are invadeing their Culture but Wont shut up about Just how Wrong we are.
And at OP just try and take them.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
Kennedy was not loved by everyone I hate to tell you. The Generals in the Army hated Kennedy very badly and wished him dead (Operation Northwoods). He had little pull with the old established Democratics in Congress. He was a Catholic. He pushed civil rights hard because it was the law. Hardly anyone cared about him actually, until he died. They liked Jackie O mainly. Also, no one really knows WHO shot him (if you really believe it was Oswald.. nuff said) and it was not a common thing. That did not make most people feel less safe. There were no mass killings followed by a glorified suicide as the cherry topper back then. So why would there be a growing movement to get rid of guns in the U.S. in the 60s? From the 60s-80s, how many mass killing murdersues do you remember? Not that many. Most of the mass killings in that time did not involve guns at all. They were done by serial killers like Gacy, Heidnik, Zodiac, Unibomber, Berowitz.. guys who killed people then faded back into the American landscape.
These new killers are different. They really don't have any planning it seems other than to kill as many people as possible in a short time without escaping, worse than an Islamic terrorist. They walk around with these nutty thoughts til their bowl gets full then.. bam! Off to Walmart then a trip to the courthouse, library, high school, train station, college, last place of employment.. whereever they felt wronged or hated people. They don't try to get away, they have NO intention of surviving. This is different than conspiracy killings in the 60s. Again, why do you need me to point that out to you as an intelligent guy?
If you feel you want to buy a gun, go ahead. It's legal, lol. Don't feel like you have to buy one just to spite me though. That's kind of.. irrational. If you want to blow a grand on an assault rifle just as a goof, knock yourself out.
Are you sure you live in the U.S.? Cities here like Philly, NY, Boston, DC have been doing gun buy backs for years now. Turn in a gun and get some money. Its not much, but these guns are usually the ILLEGALLY gotten kind. They usually net several THOUSAND guns a year that people just "found". I never said this will become law. The NRA gun lobby is pretty strong in the US. But I am saying under the correct conditions, it very well could happen and if it did, I would certainly welcome it.
"TO MICHAEL!"
False sense of security? Lmao, you realize what you typed there is the epitome of that, right? You claim a bullet came whizzing by your face. And yet you have absolutely NO idea who shot it, where it came from and why. But yet you believe having a gun in your backpocket would have made you feel safer. So you ran out because of fear and no feeling of personal security and bought "several" guns as a result. (your own admission)
I left the rest of the story/stories out for brevity.
The point is- there are a billion guns or more in this country. If you think that passing a law is goin to make them go away, you are severely deluded. I'll tell you what- you can be the guy who goes door to door and collect all the guns after they pass the law.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
You mean unlike Mexico, which has an almost total gun ban and is obviously much safer?
Ok, so they have to be loved by everyone now, this argument is getting more and more convoluted as you dance around for reasons why it will work. What about ole Honest Abe? He was shot in a supposed murder/suicide. Then again, not everyone loved him either. I think you might be hard-pressed to find an individual that everyone will sympathize with much less love, at least not one of these "social elite" that you so desperately need as a catalyst.
Oh no, I wouldn't buy one just to spite you, nor would I sell it back for 10% of what I paid for it. I think I live in the U.S., I retreated to my fall-out shelter so long ago, I am not sure where I am anymore.
I'd like to see some evidence of these buy-back programs and their success, has it really reduced gun crimes in those areas? No sarcasm, I'm actually interested on this.
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Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
The fact that you keep trying to confuse the issue is pretty hilarious.
Each example you give is of a former President of the United States LONG dead and has no bearing on modern-day MASS murder-suicides. I am starting to think that I was wrong in my assessment of your skills here. You seem to keep focusing on one person each time then pointing to that as some type of similar situation which is remotely connected to the title of the thread. I thought you were joking at first, but now I am wondering otherwise. The gun buyback program was to help in your self-professed ignorance that the government already is involved in this kind of stuff. They provide federal funding to cities under crime bills so they can run there programs. These guns are ILLEGAL (and we are not talking about illegal guns, friend) but the same type of program could be implemented for legally bought guns if a law banning all firearms was instituted. But I'll try and explain it once again:
This thread is about something called mass Murder/Suicides. The context is when an individual (NOT a conspiracy) goes out with one or multiple weapons to any normal, everyday public venue in modern day (NOT 40 - 145 years ago) or private home/business and systematically begins to shoot and kill anyone (that's called MURDER) they see and does not stop until they run out of bullets or out of victims. At the end of this rampage, they then kill THEMSELVES (thus activiting the SUICIDE portion of the title) as they had no intention of ever surrendering. This is what this discussion thread is about.
So, if you can keep it within modern time frames, (you know... sometime after personal computers or microwave ovens were invented, maybe?) and involving more than one death ending in a suicide, it might help you to focus better on the discussion. Just a few simple tips to help you along so you don't keep veering off course.
"TO MICHAEL!"
So to summarize, you have no credible sources for your buyback program or any real statistics? I ask the question and I get a nice long retort that is essentially a rant.
If you can spend the time writing your clever comparisons, surely you can ferret out some articles confirming your claims. I happen to like my comparisons, they are fun - adding a little absurdity to an already absurd plan.
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Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
The buyback program is not the issue nor the topic. Murder-suicides are. If you wish to argue those statistics then you are welcome to make your own "Buyback gun program statitics are bogus" thread. Perhaps I will join you in it shortly, but I prefer to remain on topic discussing this and gun banning in this thread for the time being.
If you feel the need to research and chase side issues, knock yourself out. I prefer to try and stick with the topic of the thread.
It's interesting to know that you like tickling yourself, but that is really TMI imo, lol. It's illuminating to know you find laughing at your own material you write "fun", I guess. You haven't terribly informative or germaine in the post, but hey, as long as you are having "fun" poking yourself, right?
"TO MICHAEL!"
Lol this responce made me laugh.
So your saying this is Obamas fault because the Economy is failing despite the fact these Murder/suicides have been going on for longer than the failing economy thing.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
The buyback plays into your plan for incentive to relinquish guns, how is that not important to the issue of a gun ban?
Anyone can pull factoids out of thin air, doesn't help an argument much, does it? To stay on topic, you want to ban guns - fine ban them. Now how to you plan on getting the current number of guns off the streets? You said a buyback has been working, I'm simply trying to explore this option. If you have no answers, only claims, just say so and we can get back to the main point.
I thought everyone poked themselves, I mean, you know what you like; so it saves a lot of time teaching another how to best tickle you. Besides, I'm tickling myself right now for the second time since typing this out. Very efficient, and fun if I do say so.
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Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
It's one possible solution, which could be implemented alone or as part of an overall strategy with other ideas. It is not THE central theme to anything. Please try to follow along. The CURRENT buyback programs in some cities only takes SOME illegal guns off the street, not all of them. It is not designed to remove 100% of guns. That's like saying with all the condoms out, unwanted pregnancies shouldn't be happening. Just having condoms doesn't solve the problem. You need as someone said earlier in the thread- education, incentives and appeals to a person's sense of foresight. It is the same thing with guns.
ONE POSSIBLE SOLUTION (highlighted it that time so you see it) is that you have a buyback program dollar/dollar. The vast overwhelming majority of gun owners will go with this right away as most of them understand the law is the law. Then you have massive advertisement campaigns like how we did to get people interested in the Iraq War. Then you thrown in some good ol' fashioned horse sense to the gun nuts and show them how irrational they are to want to keep holding onto implements of destruction what primary purpose is to kill and maim other human beings. Show them that they have police agencies, military and national guards to help protect them.
You keep talking about getting guns off the street. All of these murdersues are not happening with "guns off the street". I understand your confusion with this, but they are all being committed with LEGALLY purchased guns buy 'law-abiding citizens'. Taking guns off the street doesn't change the fact that these people are still walking into shops buying them, then going on a killing spree. Once guns are banned, the average person still wanting to do this would find it extremely difficult to get some of the remaining guns floating around in the black market.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Actually, you just capitalized - not really highlighting.
I see where I messed up, I used the term "streets". A poor choice in retrospect, I should have used something like "out there" or "currently owned guns, legit or otherwise". A plan such as this is just so ridiculous, I don't know why I'm arguing with you. So I'll concede, you win - the plan is flawless and I shall relinquish my grenades and assault rifles to the nearest Thought Pol station.
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Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
Watch 20/20 tonight. I plan to dvr it and watch it later myself. Looks like it may be interesting.
This website is a safe haven for trolls and haters. I'm done with this pathetic site.