I agree Kefkah. This has been quite an interesting debate albeit a little one-sided of course. What I don't understand is the unwillingness for some to recognize that it could be gambling (an opinion shared by even many who are apparently involved with the TCG as well). It's to ever consumers benefit that it be recognized as such, so why the strong aversion to it?
Why will a few people not admit it's gambling? My opinion: If people admit that it's gambling, it would be subject to regulation as such. It appears that the game would not meet these regulations (e.g. odds of winning a prize by chance (that you pay for) are verified by a third party). They would also require age validation for online rmt that has a chance outcome. Also, people with a gambling problem would, hopefully, steer clear of this. Informing people up front about something with a monetary gamble might lose them customers and revenue. As it is, people are duped into believing that they are simply buying cards for a TCG. Before they realize the pattern they're in, some are spending hundreds of dollars hoping for the chance outcome of a desirable loot item. After they recognize the familiar pattern, it's too late.
Why will they not simply run a tournament as a product promotional, like WoW's tournament cited above? My opinion: Because product promotionals do not charge a fee. It appears that getting as much money as possible up front is more important than showcasing the product.
people won't bend to your opinion the keyword being OPINION of the possiblity it COULD keyword COULD be gambling because their OPINION differs from yours. Your entitled to your OPINION archangel, but asking them to have your OPINION is unfair.
all the writing in the world wont change that what you feel is not what others feel. You are going to have to accept that not everyone will agree with you and live with it. If you feel its gambling that's fine. I however do not agree with you and feel that it is not gambling and that is fine too. Your opinions as to why they feel that way are simply that as well and and in my case your personal opinions about it could not be farther from the truth.
I agree Kefkah. This has been quite an interesting debate albeit a little one-sided of course. What I don't understand is the unwillingness for some to recognize that it could be gambling (an opinion shared by even many who are apparently involved with the TCG as well). It's to ever consumers benefit that it be recognized as such, so why the strong aversion to it?
Why will a few people not admit it's gambling? My opinion: If people admit that it's gambling, it would be subject to regulation as such. It appears that the game would not meet these regulations (e.g. odds of winning a prize by chance (that you pay for) are verified by a third party). They would also require age validation for online rmt that has a chance outcome. Also, people with a gambling problem would, hopefully, steer clear of this. Informing people up front about something with a monetary gamble might lose them customers and revenue. As it is, people are duped into believing that they are simply buying cards for a TCG. Before they realize the pattern they're in, some are spending hundreds of dollars hoping for the chance outcome of a desirable loot item. After they recognize the familiar pattern, it's too late.
Why will they not simply run a tournament as a product promotional, like WoW's tournament cited above? My opinion: Because product promotionals do not charge a fee. It appears that getting as much money as possible up front is more important than showcasing the product.
Yeah, that's what I mean. None of this seems to be a bad thing as a consumer - except if you're a kid of course.
I agree Kefkah. This has been quite an interesting debate albeit a little one-sided of course. What I don't understand is the unwillingness for some to recognize that it could be gambling (an opinion shared by even many who are apparently involved with the TCG as well). It's to ever consumers benefit that it be recognized as such, so why the strong aversion to it?
Why will a few people not admit it's gambling? My opinion: If people admit that it's gambling, it would be subject to regulation as such. It appears that the game would not meet these regulations (e.g. odds of winning a prize by chance (that you pay for) are verified by a third party). They would also require age validation for online rmt that has a chance outcome. Also, people with a gambling problem would, hopefully, steer clear of this. Informing people up front about something with a monetary gamble might lose them customers and revenue. As it is, people are duped into believing that they are simply buying cards for a TCG. Before they realize the pattern they're in, some are spending hundreds of dollars hoping for the chance outcome of a desirable loot item. After they recognize the familiar pattern, it's too late.
Why will they not simply run a tournament as a product promotional, like WoW's tournament cited above? My opinion: Because product promotionals do not charge a fee. It appears that getting as much money as possible up front is more important than showcasing the product.
people won't bend to your opinion the keyword being OPINION of the possiblity it COULD keyword COULD be gambling because their OPINION differs from yours. Your entitled to your OPINION archangel, but asking them to have your OPINION is unfair.
all the writing in the world wont change that what you feel is not what others feel. You are going to have to accept that not everyone will agree with you and live with it. If you feel its gambling that's fine. I however do not agree with you and feel that it is not gambling and that is fine too. Your opinions as to why they feel that way are simply that as well and and in my case your personal opinions about it could not be farther from the truth.
i dont think its a matter of opinion. i believe it to be a matter of interpreteation, as i stated on an earlier post.
ummax, post your definition of gambling, followed by a description of how to obtain tcg loot and explain to us how, in your "opinion" the tcg loot is not gambling.
I agree Kefkah. This has been quite an interesting debate albeit a little one-sided of course. What I don't understand is the unwillingness for some to recognize that it could be gambling (an opinion shared by even many who are apparently involved with the TCG as well). It's to ever consumers benefit that it be recognized as such, so why the strong aversion to it?
Why will a few people not admit it's gambling? My opinion: If people admit that it's gambling, it would be subject to regulation as such. It appears that the game would not meet these regulations (e.g. odds of winning a prize by chance (that you pay for) are verified by a third party). They would also require age validation for online rmt that has a chance outcome. Also, people with a gambling problem would, hopefully, steer clear of this. Informing people up front about something with a monetary gamble might lose them customers and revenue. As it is, people are duped into believing that they are simply buying cards for a TCG. Before they realize the pattern they're in, some are spending hundreds of dollars hoping for the chance outcome of a desirable loot item. After they recognize the familiar pattern, it's too late.
Why will they not simply run a tournament as a product promotional, like WoW's tournament cited above? My opinion: Because product promotionals do not charge a fee. It appears that getting as much money as possible up front is more important than showcasing the product.
Yeah, that's what I mean. None of this seems to be a bad thing as a consumer - except if you're a kid of course.
Honestly, at this point, I just don't know why SOE seems to always end up on the wrong side of controversy. Could they run promotional tournaments in places like Nevada etc. if they wanted to? Sure they could. Blizzard does it.
Could they offer a TCG without an element of paying money for a chance at performance-enhancing loot in an MMO? Sure they could.
Could they allow people to actually own the trading cards that they "purchase" from them? Again, yes they certainly could.
Could they make sure that the loot cards actually have a function in the TCG? Yup.
Could they let people know the odds of getting a rare loot item? Yes, WoW does it, so SOE could too.
Could they ensure that the cards you get as part of your subscription are equal in value to those that people have to gamble for? Sure, all they'd have to do is make them tradeable also.
Despite all of these options available to them, they have chosen not to do any of the above it would seem. In so doing, I believe they invite controversy. They also set themselves apart from their competition but always in a negative way it seems.
P.S. Regarding my opinion, yes I identify what is in fact simply my opinion, and I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me. What a boring world it would be if they did. I cleary distinguish fact from opinion in my posts. For example, it's a fact that the loot items in the TCG can affect gameplay. It's also a fact that some people are spending money on card packs for a random chance of winning a loot item. How do I know this? They say so repeatedly on the official forums. It's also a fact that SOE can't run their tournaments in certain jurisdictions because, according to an SOE spokesperson, they charge an entry fee and offer prizes. It's a fact that running the tournaments as is, in these jurisdictions, would be illegal. It's also a fact that one of SOE's main competitor's, Blizzard, runs their TCG tournaments in these same jurisdictions because their tournaments meet the regulations. Anyone is welcome to point out any instance of me confusing fact with opinion. If I make an error, I'll gladly correct it .
Avoiding the main topic, what changes to the SWG: TCG would not make it gambling and be acceptable globally as a feature? In this since, make it acceptable as WOW: TCG and EQ: TCG for all regions to play. This very issue is probably burning on the "White Boards" of SOE and Lucas Arts.
In other words, cut the crap and make this thing fully available to all.
I agree Kefkah. This has been quite an interesting debate albeit a little one-sided of course. What I don't understand is the unwillingness for some to recognize that it could be gambling (an opinion shared by even many who are apparently involved with the TCG as well). It's to ever consumers benefit that it be recognized as such, so why the strong aversion to it?
Why will a few people not admit it's gambling? My opinion: If people admit that it's gambling, it would be subject to regulation as such. It appears that the game would not meet these regulations (e.g. odds of winning a prize by chance (that you pay for) are verified by a third party). They would also require age validation for online rmt that has a chance outcome. Also, people with a gambling problem would, hopefully, steer clear of this. Informing people up front about something with a monetary gamble might lose them customers and revenue. As it is, people are duped into believing that they are simply buying cards for a TCG. Before they realize the pattern they're in, some are spending hundreds of dollars hoping for the chance outcome of a desirable loot item. After they recognize the familiar pattern, it's too late.
Why will they not simply run a tournament as a product promotional, like WoW's tournament cited above? My opinion: Because product promotionals do not charge a fee. It appears that getting as much money as possible up front is more important than showcasing the product.
people won't bend to your opinion the keyword being OPINION of the possiblity it COULD keyword COULD be gambling because their OPINION differs from yours. Your entitled to your OPINION archangel, but asking them to have your OPINION is unfair.
all the writing in the world wont change that what you feel is not what others feel. You are going to have to accept that not everyone will agree with you and live with it. If you feel its gambling that's fine. I however do not agree with you and feel that it is not gambling and that is fine too. Your opinions as to why they feel that way are simply that as well and and in my case your personal opinions about it could not be farther from the truth.
i dont think its a matter of opinion. i believe it to be a matter of interpreteation, as i stated on an earlier post.
ummax, post your definition of gambling, followed by a description of how to obtain tcg loot and explain to us how, in your "opinion" the tcg loot is not gambling.
I recognize that your request for a definition isn't from me, and I'm interested to see the other poster's definition as well. Meanwhile, U.S. federal legislation on internet gambling provides the following definition that may be relevant:
"the staking or risking of property in order to win something of value based on the outcome of:
a contest of others [note the possible relevance to online tournaments with entry fees and prizes]
a sporting event, or
a game subject to chance
the purchase of a chance to win a lottery or other prize the award of which is predominantly subject to chance." [note the possible relevance to purchasing card packs for a chance to win performance enhancing loot items in an MMO]
While I'm on the subject, if anyone really wants a legal perspective on this or feels that they have been victimized by illegal internet gambling, you can of course contact the FTC; I also found the following website where people can obtain legal counsel on these matters: http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Federal-Laws/internet-gambling-ban.htm
Contact information is available via this link also for email and/or telephone consultation. There is generally a fee for the consultation it seems. I don't know this lawyer in any way, so can't comment on the quality of service. I just happened to notice the apparent expertise in the field of internet games of chance ^_^. Happy researching for those interested.
Avoiding the main topic, what changes to the SWG: TCG would not make it gambling and be acceptable globally as a feature? In this since, make it acceptable as WOW: TCG and EQ: TCG for all regions to play. This very issue is probably burning on the "White Boards" of SOE and Lucas Arts. In other words, cut the crap and make this thing fully available to all.
Another one who interprets tcg and tournament as being one and the same.
The TCG is available to all and all those regions do play it. The fine print you see is identical to the fine print you see on the eq/eq2 TCG in every way shape and form.
Avoiding the main topic, what changes to the SWG: TCG would not make it gambling and be acceptable globally as a feature? In this since, make it acceptable as WOW: TCG and EQ: TCG for all regions to play. This very issue is probably burning on the "White Boards" of SOE and Lucas Arts. In other words, cut the crap and make this thing fully available to all.
Bingo ^_^. No pun intended btw lol. If SOE and LEC did what you're suggesting here, I suspect that they'd avoid a lot of controversy, and that their game would be much more popular in the long run. They could also showcase it via tournaments in more regions, and compete in those areas with some of their main competitors. I think what this would require, however, is a shift away from the short-term, front-end, cash grab philosophy that seems to have plagued them repeatedly.
I agree Kefkah. This has been quite an interesting debate albeit a little one-sided of course. What I don't understand is the unwillingness for some to recognize that it could be gambling (an opinion shared by even many who are apparently involved with the TCG as well). It's to ever consumers benefit that it be recognized as such, so why the strong aversion to it?
Why will a few people not admit it's gambling? My opinion: If people admit that it's gambling, it would be subject to regulation as such. It appears that the game would not meet these regulations (e.g. odds of winning a prize by chance (that you pay for) are verified by a third party). They would also require age validation for online rmt that has a chance outcome. Also, people with a gambling problem would, hopefully, steer clear of this. Informing people up front about something with a monetary gamble might lose them customers and revenue. As it is, people are duped into believing that they are simply buying cards for a TCG. Before they realize the pattern they're in, some are spending hundreds of dollars hoping for the chance outcome of a desirable loot item. After they recognize the familiar pattern, it's too late.
Why will they not simply run a tournament as a product promotional, like WoW's tournament cited above? My opinion: Because product promotionals do not charge a fee. It appears that getting as much money as possible up front is more important than showcasing the product.
people won't bend to your opinion the keyword being OPINION of the possiblity it COULD keyword COULD be gambling because their OPINION differs from yours. Your entitled to your OPINION archangel, but asking them to have your OPINION is unfair.
all the writing in the world wont change that what you feel is not what others feel. You are going to have to accept that not everyone will agree with you and live with it. If you feel its gambling that's fine. I however do not agree with you and feel that it is not gambling and that is fine too. Your opinions as to why they feel that way are simply that as well and and in my case your personal opinions about it could not be farther from the truth.
i dont think its a matter of opinion. i believe it to be a matter of interpreteation, as i stated on an earlier post.
ummax, post your definition of gambling, followed by a description of how to obtain tcg loot and explain to us how, in your "opinion" the tcg loot is not gambling.
love your mind games
gambling is betting with odds and placing money at a chance to win something
tcg is a card game period.. they sell booster packs and you buy them and play card games. There is no chance involved here you dont bet you play cards like go fish or crazy eights or whatever. What part of this is so hard for you to understand? Where is the gambling? There is no such thing as "tcg loot" not sure what you mean. Are you speaking of their loot tournaments where you win prizes? if this is the case then fine however the reason they can't hold their tournaments in those states is not because of gambling laws its because they can and often do for their high end tournaments charge a fee for admission. Sprint tournaments (the kinda I attend by the way) are in fact free and I just entered one today fyi.
You guys clearly have absolutely no understanding of what a TCG is, but this was covered before suffice it to say in your case I have not answered this very simple question for you so I am now. NO matter how hard you try though there is no way that a definition of gambling can be associated with a regular card game. When people play the TCG from day to day they don't bet money they dont win anything except for the game of cards. Its just a card game lol
really what is your problem with this?
p.s. I have decided to copy and paste this post onto notepad and the next time I see someone mix up tournaments and TCG's and say that its gambling I"m just going to cut and paste this identical response for you because it can't be made any simpler then this. sorry your reaching but then the average person knows this already.
I agree Kefkah. This has been quite an interesting debate albeit a little one-sided of course. What I don't understand is the unwillingness for some to recognize that it could be gambling (an opinion shared by even many who are apparently involved with the TCG as well). It's to ever consumers benefit that it be recognized as such, so why the strong aversion to it?
Why will a few people not admit it's gambling? My opinion: If people admit that it's gambling, it would be subject to regulation as such. It appears that the game would not meet these regulations (e.g. odds of winning a prize by chance (that you pay for) are verified by a third party). They would also require age validation for online rmt that has a chance outcome. Also, people with a gambling problem would, hopefully, steer clear of this. Informing people up front about something with a monetary gamble might lose them customers and revenue. As it is, people are duped into believing that they are simply buying cards for a TCG. Before they realize the pattern they're in, some are spending hundreds of dollars hoping for the chance outcome of a desirable loot item. After they recognize the familiar pattern, it's too late.
Why will they not simply run a tournament as a product promotional, like WoW's tournament cited above? My opinion: Because product promotionals do not charge a fee. It appears that getting as much money as possible up front is more important than showcasing the product.
people won't bend to your opinion the keyword being OPINION of the possiblity it COULD keyword COULD be gambling because their OPINION differs from yours. Your entitled to your OPINION archangel, but asking them to have your OPINION is unfair.
all the writing in the world wont change that what you feel is not what others feel. You are going to have to accept that not everyone will agree with you and live with it. If you feel its gambling that's fine. I however do not agree with you and feel that it is not gambling and that is fine too. Your opinions as to why they feel that way are simply that as well and and in my case your personal opinions about it could not be farther from the truth.
i dont think its a matter of opinion. i believe it to be a matter of interpreteation, as i stated on an earlier post.
ummax, post your definition of gambling, followed by a description of how to obtain tcg loot and explain to us how, in your "opinion" the tcg loot is not gambling.
love your mind games
gambling is betting with odds and placing money at a chance to win something
tcg is a card game period.. they sell booster packs and you buy them and play card games. There is no chance involved here you dont bet you play cards like go fish or crazy eights or whatever. What part of this is so hard for you to understand? Where is the gambling? There is no such thing as "tcg loot" not sure what you mean. Are you speaking of their loot tournaments where you win prizes? if this is the case then fine however the reason they can't hold their tournaments in those states is not because of gambling laws its because they can and often do for their high end tournaments charge a fee for admission. Sprint tournaments (the kinda I attend by the way) are in fact free and I just entered one today fyi.
You guys clearly have absolutely no understanding of what a TCG is, but this was covered before suffice it to say in your case I have not answered this very simple question for you so I am now. NO matter how hard you try though there is no way that a definition of gambling can be associated with a regular card game. When people play the TCG from day to day they don't bet money they dont win anything except for the game of cards. Its just a card game lol
really what is your problem with this?
p.s. I have decided to copy and paste this post onto notepad and the next time I see someone mix up tournaments and TCG's and say that its gambling I"m just going to cut and paste this identical response for you because it can't be made any simpler then this. sorry your reaching but then the average person knows this already.
Are you sure you want to say that there is no such thing as loot in the TCG? Really, who do you think you're kidding?
Do you really not see the difference between a regular TCG (regular card game as you say) and one that has people paying for a chance to win loot items in an MMO?
I believe you acknowledged in an earlier post that people are buying card packs for a chance at the loot items. Have you forgotten that or now changed your mind for some reason?
You did get part of the tournament issue right when you mention the entry fees. However, what you failed to mention was that the issue is for entry fees in association with the chance of winning prizes. A few posts up, I've quoted some legislation that may be relevant to paying a fee for the chance of winning prizes via an event against others. It's found in the most recent American internet gambling law.
If you want to do your own research on these issues, you can use the link I provided also. You certainly don't need to listen to me, or agree with me; I take no offence.
Avoiding the main topic, what changes to the SWG: TCG would not make it gambling and be acceptable globally as a feature? In this since, make it acceptable as WOW: TCG and EQ: TCG for all regions to play. This very issue is probably burning on the "White Boards" of SOE and Lucas Arts. In other words, cut the crap and make this thing fully available to all.
Another one who interprets tcg and tournament as being one and the same.
The TCG is available to all and all those regions do play it. The fine print you see is identical to the fine print you see on the eq/eq2 TCG in every way shape and form.
Your are correct in anyone can buy the boosters and play senarios(single play) offerings. TCG can stand alone with out Tournaments. But, I have friends (via SWG and ventrilo) in London who buy the boosters. They love the Loot Cards but are not able to play in the tournaments. They are bared from joining in on any specials such as the recent Droopy McCool tournament. This rewarded the Guise of the Master Loot Card, 3 packs of Galatic Hunters Boosters and the Droopy McCool unit card. The only way they can get this Loot Card is if another player offers it on the Posted Trades. This essentially means they have to purchase boosters to get what is needed to trade. So there you have the Chance factor, again.
Avoiding the main topic, what changes to the SWG: TCG would not make it gambling and be acceptable globally as a feature? In this since, make it acceptable as WOW: TCG and EQ: TCG for all regions to play. This very issue is probably burning on the "White Boards" of SOE and Lucas Arts. In other words, cut the crap and make this thing fully available to all.
Another one who interprets tcg and tournament as being one and the same.
The TCG is available to all and all those regions do play it. The fine print you see is identical to the fine print you see on the eq/eq2 TCG in every way shape and form.
Your are correct in anyone can buy the boosters and play senarios(single play) offerings. TCG can stand alone with out Tournaments. But, I have friends (via SWG and ventrilo) in London who buy the boosters. They love the Loot Cards but are not able to play in the tournaments. They are bared from joining in on any specials such as the recent Droopy McCool tournament. This rewarded the Guise of the Master Loot Card, 3 packs of Galatic Hunters Boosters and the Droopy McCool unit card. The only way they can get this Loot Card is if another player offers it on the Posted Trades. This essentially means they have to purchase boosters to get what is needed to trade. So there you have the Chance factor, again.
Hey Jess, I have some questions for you about the tournaments if you don't mind. I want to see if I understand them correctly. It seems to me that those with prizes generally have an entry fee. Am I correct so far?
It also seems that part of this entry fee entitles you to some booster packs, and that with the booster packs people have a chance at desirable loot items. Am I still on track?
It also seems that the entry fee entitles you to compete in card games that give you a chance at more prizes. Further, this TCG, like most others I've played, seems to have a random element involved in it as well as skill. The random element would consist of cards randomly drawn that would make up your "hand." Am I still getting this right? This is different from a game of pure skill like chess, for example, where there is no random element such as drawing cards or rolling dice.
If all of this information is correct, then I would suggest that it is indeed the entry fee, the random chance and the prizes that conflict with legislation in various jurisdictions.
Again though, if this is all accurate, SOE could take steps to make their tournaments viable in more regions. Getting rid of the entry fee would be a step in the right direction it seems. After all, don't people already pay a fee just to access the game, and pay more for booster packs if they want?
The WoW tournament I referred to earlier seems to also have random elements and prizes, but no fee to enter--hence no monetary risk on a chance outcome for the participants.
Avoiding the main topic, what changes to the SWG: TCG would not make it gambling and be acceptable globally as a feature? In this since, make it acceptable as WOW: TCG and EQ: TCG for all regions to play. This very issue is probably burning on the "White Boards" of SOE and Lucas Arts. In other words, cut the crap and make this thing fully available to all.
Another one who interprets tcg and tournament as being one and the same.
The TCG is available to all and all those regions do play it. The fine print you see is identical to the fine print you see on the eq/eq2 TCG in every way shape and form.
Your are correct in anyone can buy the boosters and play senarios(single play) offerings. TCG can stand alone with out Tournaments. But, I have friends (via SWG and ventrilo) in London who buy the boosters. They love the Loot Cards but are not able to play in the tournaments. They are bared from joining in on any specials such as the recent Droopy McCool tournament. This rewarded the Guise of the Master Loot Card, 3 packs of Galatic Hunters Boosters and the Droopy McCool unit card. The only way they can get this Loot Card is if another player offers it on the Posted Trades. This essentially means they have to purchase boosters to get what is needed to trade. So there you have the Chance factor, again.
Hey Jess, I have some questions for you about the tournaments if you don't mind. I want to see if I understand them correctly. It seems to me that those with prizes generally have an entry fee. Am I correct so far?
It also seems that part of this entry fee entitles you to some booster packs, and that with the booster packs people have a chance at desirable loot items. Am I still on track?
It also seems that the entry fee entitles you to compete in card games that give you a chance at more prizes. Further, this TCG, like most others I've played, seems to have a random element involved in it as well as skill. The random element would consist of cards randomly drawn that would make up your "hand." Am I still getting this right? This is different from a game of pure skill like chess, for example, where there is no random element such as drawing cards or rolling dice.
If all of this information is correct, then I would suggest that it is indeed the entry fee, the random chance and the prizes that conflict with legislation in various jurisdictions.
Again though, if this is all accurate, SOE could take steps to make their tournaments viable in more regions. Getting rid of the entry fee would be a step in the right direction it seems. After all, don't people already pay a fee just to access the game, and pay more for booster packs if they want?
The WoW tournament I referred to earlier seems to also have random elements and prizes, but no fee to enter--hence no monetary risk on a chance outcome for the participants.
Special Scenarios are offered limitedly (current one is for a month, Droid Factory thing) for a month and are free [with an active account]. Scenarios are single play activities that when won award Game Cards and sometimes Loot Cards. Initial Starter Decks are free along with the 5 free boosters a month that have a chance of awarding Loot Cards. HOWEVER, non of the Starter Cards or monthly free Boosters are tradeable. Only purchased Booster Cards, Tournement & Senario wins and Event Passes are tradable.
Daily Tournaments are free and held twice a day. Winning the daily Tournaments award points towards a rank system. Here is the current months Spirit System:
"Twice every week day at alternating times (see schedule below), a four-round Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game Sprint constructed tournament will be held in the Tournaments Lobby.
Entrants in the tournament will receive Sprint points based on participation and number of wins.
Cumulative rankings will be posted after each event on the Sprint leaderboards.
On the last weekday of the month, the player with the most Sprint points on the Sprint leaderboards will win:
- A "Choose A Loot Card" good for a Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game loot card from the current set.
- A virtual Gold Sprint Winner Medal, displayed next to the winner's name in the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game lobbies.
Players with 100 or more Sprint points for the month will receive:
- A virtual Silver Sprint Winner Medal, displayed next to the players' name in the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game lobbies.
Players with 40 to 99 Sprint points for the month will receive:
- A virtual Bronze Sprint Winner Medal, displayed next to the players' name in the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game lobbies.
Players will earn Sprint promo cards at the following rates:
On the first weekday of the next month, all Sprint points and Sprint rankings will be reset, but medal winners will keep their medals. If players win subsequent medals of the same color, a number will appear inside that medal. For example, the number "3" will appear inside a three-time gold winner's medal.
The Sprint point schedule for daily Sprint events looks like this:
- Receive one (1) point for each round lost.
- Receive three (3) points for each round won.
The fewest number of Sprint points a player can receive for a completed tournament is four (4), and the maximum is twelve (12).
The monthly Sprint schedule is as follows: (provided no other events are in progress)
Mondays - 11:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. (PT - U.S.A.)
Tuesdays - 11:00 a.m. and 6:30 p.m. (PT - U.S.A.)
Wednesdays - 11:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. (PT - U.S.A.)
Thursdays - 11:00a.m. and 6:30 p.m. (PT - U.S.A.)
Fridays - 11:00a.m. and 5:00 p.m. (PT - U.S.A.)
(The April 2009 Sprint begins on April 1st and ends on April 30th.)
Please see the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game Events Calendar for details on this month's Sprints.
Players can still enter as many Sprint tournaments as they would like, however, only the best four (4) Sprint point showings each week will be tallied for a player. All other Sprint tournaments will not count for points, but Sprint games played will help decide tie-breakers. If a month ends in the middle of the week, players will receive credit for the top four events for each partial week.
The format for daily events will be four (4) rounds of Swiss play, although we'll occasionally post special formats a couple of days in advance to keep players on their toes, competitively speaking! All Sprint ratings will now be updated each night and not at the conclusion of the event.
The results of Sprint tournaments will have no impact on other tournament ratings and rankings.
The April 2009 monthly Sprint promo card is Clan Mother Gethzerion (3P6)!"
So to answer your first question, no you dont have to pay a fee to win a prize but you have to go through this system and be a winner. The Choose your Loot Card card is pretty cool but limited to that expansions list of Loot Cards; (i.e.: Squadrons over Corellia, Galatic Hunters and Champions of the Force)
The special monthly tournments with instent rewarded Events Packs (i.e. Droopy McCool) award Special Game Card, a Special Loot Card and 3 Boosters Packs. You get these shortly after you enter that tournament for 10 Event Passes and begin play. I have just learned that it is possible to buy the Event Packs from the store without entering the tournament. See here:
Yes, there is a random chance in card selection. I wish the game offered a Shuffle option as your deck could be stack against you at the beginning of a play session. Getting all Tatical cards with no Ability cards can blow.
From my discovery, it looks like SOE and LEC are taking steps to open this game up even to those closed markets in a limited fashion. Hmm, cool. Now I guess its a matter of being a cash market. Oh well...
I agree Kefkah. This has been quite an interesting debate albeit a little one-sided of course. What I don't understand is the unwillingness for some to recognize that it could be gambling (an opinion shared by even many who are apparently involved with the TCG as well). It's to ever consumers benefit that it be recognized as such, so why the strong aversion to it?
The aversion comes from the blind hatred of SOE by some to affect the TCG gaming community as a whole.
If these ex Star Wars Galaxies "vets" end up getting all TCG's banned in my state due to some stupid nerd rage about something that happened 4+ years ago... I will be more than a little pissed off.
When I read this, the first thing that popped into my head was "Oh great another SWG vet just looking for another excuse to bash SOE on MMORPG.com."
Which is exactly what it is.
Who really cares if some reject wants to pay obscene amounts of money to SOE at a card "tourney" for the chance to get a "loot" card so he can have a special looking lightsaber inside the game.
World of Warcraft also does this, offering in game items and mounts inside it's TCG. I personally know people who have spent 2 thousand dollars on boxes upon boxes of fires of outland just for a shot at the Spectral Tiger Mount.
What it amounts to is smart business on the parts of Blizzard and SOE. People play their games and then give them what equates to 133 months of sub fees trying to luckily gain 1 item from the TCG to use in game.
So why wasn't this brought up about Blizzard doing exactly the same thing, how come WoW:TCG isn't gambling?
Because it really doesn't matter. TCG is a form of entertainment. If you don't want your children "gambling" then don't buy them the cards.
If you are an adult and play, well then that's your business. Everyone else should just back the f**k up and leave it be.
I agree Kefkah. This has been quite an interesting debate albeit a little one-sided of course. What I don't understand is the unwillingness for some to recognize that it could be gambling (an opinion shared by even many who are apparently involved with the TCG as well). It's to ever consumers benefit that it be recognized as such, so why the strong aversion to it?
The aversion comes from the blind hatred of SOE by some to affect the TCG gaming community as a whole.
If these ex Star Wars Galaxies "vets" end up getting all TCG's banned in my state due to some stupid nerd rage about something that happened 4+ years ago... I will be more than a little pissed off.
When I read this, the first thing that popped into my head was "Oh great another SWG vet just looking for another excuse to bash SOE on MMORPG.com."
Which is exactly what it is.
Who really cares if some reject wants to pay obscene amounts of money to SOE at a card "tourney" for the chance to get a "loot" card so he can have a special looking lightsaber inside the game.
World of Warcraft also does this, offering in game items and mounts inside it's TCG. I personally know people who have spent 2 thousand dollars on boxes upon boxes of fires of outland just for a shot at the Spectral Tiger Mount.
What it amounts to is smart business on the parts of Blizzard and SOE. People play their games and then give them what equates to 133 months of sub fees trying to luckily gain 1 item from the TCG to use in game.
So why wasn't this brought up about Blizzard doing exactly the same thing, how come WoW:TCG isn't gambling?
Because it really doesn't matter. TCG is a form of entertainment. If you don't want your children "gambling" then don't buy them the cards.
If you are an adult and play, well then that's your business. Everyone else should just back the f**k up and leave it be.
This has already been covered. The WoW TCG and the SWG TCG are completely different and that is why the WoW tournaments are legal in all states.
Avoiding the main topic, what changes to the SWG: TCG would not make it gambling and be acceptable globally as a feature? In this since, make it acceptable as WOW: TCG and EQ: TCG for all regions to play. This very issue is probably burning on the "White Boards" of SOE and Lucas Arts. In other words, cut the crap and make this thing fully available to all.
Another one who interprets tcg and tournament as being one and the same.
The TCG is available to all and all those regions do play it. The fine print you see is identical to the fine print you see on the eq/eq2 TCG in every way shape and form.
Your are correct in anyone can buy the boosters and play senarios(single play) offerings. TCG can stand alone with out Tournaments. But, I have friends (via SWG and ventrilo) in London who buy the boosters. They love the Loot Cards but are not able to play in the tournaments. They are bared from joining in on any specials such as the recent Droopy McCool tournament. This rewarded the Guise of the Master Loot Card, 3 packs of Galatic Hunters Boosters and the Droopy McCool unit card. The only way they can get this Loot Card is if another player offers it on the Posted Trades. This essentially means they have to purchase boosters to get what is needed to trade. So there you have the Chance factor, again.
Hey Jess, I have some questions for you about the tournaments if you don't mind. I want to see if I understand them correctly. It seems to me that those with prizes generally have an entry fee. Am I correct so far?
It also seems that part of this entry fee entitles you to some booster packs, and that with the booster packs people have a chance at desirable loot items. Am I still on track?
It also seems that the entry fee entitles you to compete in card games that give you a chance at more prizes. Further, this TCG, like most others I've played, seems to have a random element involved in it as well as skill. The random element would consist of cards randomly drawn that would make up your "hand." Am I still getting this right? This is different from a game of pure skill like chess, for example, where there is no random element such as drawing cards or rolling dice.
If all of this information is correct, then I would suggest that it is indeed the entry fee, the random chance and the prizes that conflict with legislation in various jurisdictions.
Again though, if this is all accurate, SOE could take steps to make their tournaments viable in more regions. Getting rid of the entry fee would be a step in the right direction it seems. After all, don't people already pay a fee just to access the game, and pay more for booster packs if they want?
The WoW tournament I referred to earlier seems to also have random elements and prizes, but no fee to enter--hence no monetary risk on a chance outcome for the participants.
Special Scenarios are offered limitedly (current one is for a month, Droid Factory thing) for a month and are free [with an active account]. Scenarios are single play activities that when won award Game Cards and sometimes Loot Cards. Initial Starter Decks are free along with the 5 free boosters a month that have a chance of awarding Loot Cards. HOWEVER, non of the Starter Cards or monthly free Boosters are tradeable. Only purchased Booster Cards, Tournement & Senario wins and Event Passes are tradable.
Daily Tournaments are free and held twice a day. Winning the daily Tournaments award points towards a rank system. Here is the current months Spirit System:
"Twice every week day at alternating times (see schedule below), a four-round Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game Sprint constructed tournament will be held in the Tournaments Lobby.
Entrants in the tournament will receive Sprint points based on participation and number of wins.
Cumulative rankings will be posted after each event on the Sprint leaderboards.
On the last weekday of the month, the player with the most Sprint points on the Sprint leaderboards will win:
- A "Choose A Loot Card" good for a Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game loot card from the current set.
- A virtual Gold Sprint Winner Medal, displayed next to the winner's name in the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game lobbies.
Players with 100 or more Sprint points for the month will receive:
- A virtual Silver Sprint Winner Medal, displayed next to the players' name in the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game lobbies.
Players with 40 to 99 Sprint points for the month will receive:
- A virtual Bronze Sprint Winner Medal, displayed next to the players' name in the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game lobbies.
Players will earn Sprint promo cards at the following rates:
On the first weekday of the next month, all Sprint points and Sprint rankings will be reset, but medal winners will keep their medals. If players win subsequent medals of the same color, a number will appear inside that medal. For example, the number "3" will appear inside a three-time gold winner's medal.
The Sprint point schedule for daily Sprint events looks like this:
- Receive one (1) point for each round lost.
- Receive three (3) points for each round won.
The fewest number of Sprint points a player can receive for a completed tournament is four (4), and the maximum is twelve (12).
The monthly Sprint schedule is as follows: (provided no other events are in progress)
Mondays - 11:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. (PT - U.S.A.)
Tuesdays - 11:00 a.m. and 6:30 p.m. (PT - U.S.A.)
Wednesdays - 11:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. (PT - U.S.A.)
Thursdays - 11:00a.m. and 6:30 p.m. (PT - U.S.A.)
Fridays - 11:00a.m. and 5:00 p.m. (PT - U.S.A.)
(The April 2009 Sprint begins on April 1st and ends on April 30th.)
Please see the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game Events Calendar for details on this month's Sprints.
Players can still enter as many Sprint tournaments as they would like, however, only the best four (4) Sprint point showings each week will be tallied for a player. All other Sprint tournaments will not count for points, but Sprint games played will help decide tie-breakers. If a month ends in the middle of the week, players will receive credit for the top four events for each partial week.
The format for daily events will be four (4) rounds of Swiss play, although we'll occasionally post special formats a couple of days in advance to keep players on their toes, competitively speaking! All Sprint ratings will now be updated each night and not at the conclusion of the event.
The results of Sprint tournaments will have no impact on other tournament ratings and rankings.
The April 2009 monthly Sprint promo card is Clan Mother Gethzerion (3P6)!"
So to answer your first question, no you dont have to pay a fee to win a prize but you have to go through this system and be a winner. The Choose your Loot Card card is pretty cool but limited to that expansions list of Loot Cards; (i.e.: Squadrons over Corellia, Galatic Hunters and Champions of the Force)
The special monthly tournments with instent rewarded Events Packs (i.e. Droopy McCool) award Special Game Card, a Special Loot Card and 3 Boosters Packs. You get these shortly after you enter that tournament for 10 Event Passes and begin play. I have just learned that it is possible to buy the Event Packs from the store without entering the tournament. See here:
Yes, there is a random chance in card selection. I wish the game offered a Shuffle option as your deck could be stack against you at the beginning of a play session. Getting all Tatical cards with no Ability cards can blow.
From my discovery, it looks like SOE and LEC are taking steps to open this game up even to those closed markets in a limited fashion. Hmm, cool. Now I guess its a matter of being a cash market. Oh well...
Thanks for the detailed response Jess. I think I'm following you, but I'm not 100% clear on something. There appear to be two types of tournaments. One type has no entry fee and involves sprint points. The other type has an entry fee of event passes that can be purchased at the online store. Here are the listings about what I'm referring to:
5:00PM PT (server time)
Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game Sprint Constructed Tournament
Entry Fee: FREE
Format/Deck: Constructed Deck
4 Rounds
Players will earn Sprint Points for this event.
No rewards for this individual event. Monthly Sprint winners will be awarded at the end of the month.
This event is open to all registered players. See the Sprint details for more information.
1st Place: One Galactic Hunters Choose a Loot card and 5 Galactic Hunters Booster Packs
2nd Place: 10 Galactic Hunters Booster Packs
3rd Place: 8 Galactic Hunters Booster Packs
4th Place: 6 Galactic Hunters Booster Packs
5th-16th Place: 2 Galactic Hunters Booster Packs
Everyone Else: 1 Galactic Hunters Booster Pack
*The above rewards are based on 128 or more entrants
If I'm not mistaken, the tournament that was referred to in the O.P. was one that required event passes for participation. It seems that there are two types of tournaments and that it is the second type that has stirred up the controversy. Am I understanding this correctly?
I agree Kefkah. This has been quite an interesting debate albeit a little one-sided of course. What I don't understand is the unwillingness for some to recognize that it could be gambling (an opinion shared by even many who are apparently involved with the TCG as well). It's to ever consumers benefit that it be recognized as such, so why the strong aversion to it?
The aversion comes from the blind hatred of SOE by some to affect the TCG gaming community as a whole.
If these ex Star Wars Galaxies "vets" end up getting all TCG's banned in my state due to some stupid nerd rage about something that happened 4+ years ago... I will be more than a little pissed off.
When I read this, the first thing that popped into my head was "Oh great another SWG vet just looking for another excuse to bash SOE on MMORPG.com."
Which is exactly what it is.
Who really cares if some reject wants to pay obscene amounts of money to SOE at a card "tourney" for the chance to get a "loot" card so he can have a special looking lightsaber inside the game.
World of Warcraft also does this, offering in game items and mounts inside it's TCG. I personally know people who have spent 2 thousand dollars on boxes upon boxes of fires of outland just for a shot at the Spectral Tiger Mount.
What it amounts to is smart business on the parts of Blizzard and SOE. People play their games and then give them what equates to 133 months of sub fees trying to luckily gain 1 item from the TCG to use in game.
So why wasn't this brought up about Blizzard doing exactly the same thing, how come WoW:TCG isn't gambling?
Because it really doesn't matter. TCG is a form of entertainment. If you don't want your children "gambling" then don't buy them the cards.
If you are an adult and play, well then that's your business. Everyone else should just back the f**k up and leave it be.
This is very easy to respond to. A number of people that didn't get bent out of shape over the NGE, that got over it quickly, or that joined SWG long after the NGE have expressed concern about the TCG and the way it is run. The official boards are full of complaints about certain aspects of it. So there isn't a direct relationship between the NGE and concern over the TCG, apart from a possible pattern of unethical behaviour that people may dislike.
As for your comparison with WoW's TCG. That's also easy to respond to, and I wouldn't really need to respond if you had read the thread. It's long though, so I don't really blame you for skipping a lot of it. WoW's TCG tournaments, like the one in question offered by SOE, have prizes. Unlike SOE's though, they do not have an entry fee. Having prizes with no entry fee appears legal in the states listed. Prizes with an entry fee appears to violate some state legislation.
So to summarize, no this isn't about the NGE as you suggest, and the WoW tournament referred to is legal in Nevada because it is different than the SOE tournament being discussed here, not the same.
I don't think you can blame the problems on disgruntled former SWG players. That seems to be the party line for SOE defenders for some reason. I think really you should be asking SOE why Blizz can run tournaments with prizes in Nevada and they can't. I believe the answer will be something about entry fees. If you can talk SOE into letting go of some of your cash, I think this controversy might be resolved rather easily.
As an Englishman, I find it strange that America, "The Land of the Free" has laws against gambling and that so many gamers are eager to defend these laws.
As an Englishman, I find it strange that America, "The Land of the Free" has laws against gambling and that so many gamers are eager to defend these laws. What's next? Banning booze? :P
No need to ban booze when there are rules governing where, when, and who has access to it.
Thanks for the detailed response Jess. I think I'm following you, but I'm not 100% clear on something. There appear to be two types of tournaments. One type has no entry fee and involves sprint points. The other type has an entry fee of event passes that can be purchased at the online store. Here are the listings about what I'm referring to: 5:00PM PT (server time)
Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game Sprint Constructed Tournament
Entry Fee: FREE
Format/Deck: Constructed Deck
4 Rounds
Players will earn Sprint Points for this event.
No rewards for this individual event. Monthly Sprint winners will be awarded at the end of the month.
This event is open to all registered players. See the Sprint details for more information.
1st Place: One Galactic Hunters Choose a Loot card and 5 Galactic Hunters Booster Packs
2nd Place: 10 Galactic Hunters Booster Packs
3rd Place: 8 Galactic Hunters Booster Packs
4th Place: 6 Galactic Hunters Booster Packs
5th-16th Place: 2 Galactic Hunters Booster Packs
Everyone Else: 1 Galactic Hunters Booster Pack
*The above rewards are based on 128 or more entrants If I'm not mistaken, the tournament that was referred to in the O.P. was one that required event passes for participation. It seems that there are two types of tournaments and that it is the second type that has stirred up the controversy. Am I understanding this correctly?
As an Englishman, I find it strange that America, "The Land of the Free" has laws against gambling and that so many gamers are eager to defend these laws. What's next? Banning booze? :P
We do restrict booze from minors at a later age than most of europe. 21. Never understood why one could serve in the Military but can't drink. Because of my age and when the law changed, I joked "I am a once and future minor."
As an Englishman, I find it strange that America, "The Land of the Free" has laws against gambling and that so many gamers are eager to defend these laws. What's next? Banning booze? :P
I'm surprised you sank this low.
America is not "the land of the free, because we have no rules".
All you are trying to do is derail the thread with a ridiculous off topic and completely unrelated issue.
Is the card game gambling? Yes and no, but I think people are blurring the lines and getting the issues confused.
Are the loot cards gambling in a sense of SOE vs The united state of america?
It would be an extremely hard case to win. Not that I don't think some talented (or bottom feeding) lawyer could not make a case. It would just be very difficult to prove in a realistic manner. For the most part the star wars trading card game is the same as buying a pack of baseball cards for the chance of getting a rare print for the aftermarket collectable value it offers. The real difference is that it might be argued that soe is in a comtrolling and invested relationship with the aftermarket value of the items since they can only be sold while subscribed to the soe service (swg) and the collectable value of the cards can be used as currency in the actual game (not through 3rd party market, but player to player).
Even though the whole concept of the trading card game has gambling undertones, I doubt it is legally gambling.
SOE vs Their customers.
Sorry folks, this is gambling, but not in an law breaking las vegas style gambling commission sort of way. John Smedly fully admitted in an interview that the card game was introduced for the sole purpose of soe getting into the real money transaction market. Now ask yourself what you get for the real money you spend on each transaction? A CHANCE to get something. Spending money for the chance to get something is gambling. People can play whatever word games they want, but the truth is right there and that was the goal of soes card game from its very creation.
Game developer time was removed from the "free update" cycles and dedicated towards creating the card game. To get the full content of those efforts now requires someone to pay for the chance to aquire it.
Thanks for the detailed response Jess. I think I'm following you, but I'm not 100% clear on something. There appear to be two types of tournaments. One type has no entry fee and involves sprint points. The other type has an entry fee of event passes that can be purchased at the online store. Here are the listings about what I'm referring to: 5:00PM PT (server time)
Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game Sprint Constructed Tournament
Entry Fee: FREE
Format/Deck: Constructed Deck
4 Rounds
Players will earn Sprint Points for this event.
No rewards for this individual event. Monthly Sprint winners will be awarded at the end of the month.
This event is open to all registered players. See the Sprint details for more information.
1st Place: One Galactic Hunters Choose a Loot card and 5 Galactic Hunters Booster Packs
2nd Place: 10 Galactic Hunters Booster Packs
3rd Place: 8 Galactic Hunters Booster Packs
4th Place: 6 Galactic Hunters Booster Packs
5th-16th Place: 2 Galactic Hunters Booster Packs
Everyone Else: 1 Galactic Hunters Booster Pack
*The above rewards are based on 128 or more entrants If I'm not mistaken, the tournament that was referred to in the O.P. was one that required event passes for participation. It seems that there are two types of tournaments and that it is the second type that has stirred up the controversy. Am I understanding this correctly?
In short, yep.
Lol ok thanks Jess, that's what I thought. So, when Virrago says we can't offer these tournaments with entry fees and prizes in certain jurisdictions, it really is just that simple. The entry fees, along with prizes and probably the chance elements in the game, seem to conflict with consumer protection legislation in various jurisdictions.
All the maneuvering, posturing etc. by some folks in this thread doesn't seem to invalidate this simple reality that was publicly stated by SOE anyways.
Also, for Badger's comments, the UK's recent internet legislation is in fact more restrictive than some in the U.S.. Do some reading fella. Also, Daffid is quite right. Being the land of the free does not mean that corporations are free to abuse consumers and ignore consumer protection legislation. In fact, tolerance for this kind of corporate abuse is at an all time low--and rightly so.
Furthermore, it still seems that the key issue is entry fees. Can you play WoW TCG tournaments with prizes in the jurisdictions mentioned? Yes. Why? Apparently because there is no entry fee. Can you play the SOE tournaments that have an entry fee in the same jurisdiction? No.
Suggested solution: SOE get rid of the entry fee and let people have some fun. You already charge them for everything they need to play the game in the first place, and you even charge them an ongoing fee to access their cards--cards that you "sell" to people and then still claim to own.
Have you really learned anything from years of consumer backlash?
P.S. for those that have a hard time seeing the difference between the tournaments (not you btw Jess ^_^). In the SOE tournament with an entry fee, you are paying SOE for a chance to compete in a game of chance for the chance to win prizes. In the WoW tournament you have a chance to compete and a chance to win prizes, but you are not paying Blizzard for the chance to win. BIG difference when it comes to consumer protection legislation.
One company is running a product promotional. The other appears to be selling you a chance to win prizes. Therein lies the difference I believe. For those inclined to vent anger on law-makers or consumers, I think you need to recognize that SOE does not have to set their tournaments up like this. They choose to do so, apparently to get more of your cash. Maybe think about that for a bit and let it settle in before you decide where to focus your frustration.
Comments
Why will a few people not admit it's gambling? My opinion: If people admit that it's gambling, it would be subject to regulation as such. It appears that the game would not meet these regulations (e.g. odds of winning a prize by chance (that you pay for) are verified by a third party). They would also require age validation for online rmt that has a chance outcome. Also, people with a gambling problem would, hopefully, steer clear of this. Informing people up front about something with a monetary gamble might lose them customers and revenue. As it is, people are duped into believing that they are simply buying cards for a TCG. Before they realize the pattern they're in, some are spending hundreds of dollars hoping for the chance outcome of a desirable loot item. After they recognize the familiar pattern, it's too late.
Why will they not simply run a tournament as a product promotional, like WoW's tournament cited above? My opinion: Because product promotionals do not charge a fee. It appears that getting as much money as possible up front is more important than showcasing the product.
people won't bend to your opinion the keyword being OPINION of the possiblity it COULD keyword COULD be gambling because their OPINION differs from yours. Your entitled to your OPINION archangel, but asking them to have your OPINION is unfair.
all the writing in the world wont change that what you feel is not what others feel. You are going to have to accept that not everyone will agree with you and live with it. If you feel its gambling that's fine. I however do not agree with you and feel that it is not gambling and that is fine too. Your opinions as to why they feel that way are simply that as well and and in my case your personal opinions about it could not be farther from the truth.
Why will a few people not admit it's gambling? My opinion: If people admit that it's gambling, it would be subject to regulation as such. It appears that the game would not meet these regulations (e.g. odds of winning a prize by chance (that you pay for) are verified by a third party). They would also require age validation for online rmt that has a chance outcome. Also, people with a gambling problem would, hopefully, steer clear of this. Informing people up front about something with a monetary gamble might lose them customers and revenue. As it is, people are duped into believing that they are simply buying cards for a TCG. Before they realize the pattern they're in, some are spending hundreds of dollars hoping for the chance outcome of a desirable loot item. After they recognize the familiar pattern, it's too late.
Why will they not simply run a tournament as a product promotional, like WoW's tournament cited above? My opinion: Because product promotionals do not charge a fee. It appears that getting as much money as possible up front is more important than showcasing the product.
Yeah, that's what I mean. None of this seems to be a bad thing as a consumer - except if you're a kid of course.
Why will a few people not admit it's gambling? My opinion: If people admit that it's gambling, it would be subject to regulation as such. It appears that the game would not meet these regulations (e.g. odds of winning a prize by chance (that you pay for) are verified by a third party). They would also require age validation for online rmt that has a chance outcome. Also, people with a gambling problem would, hopefully, steer clear of this. Informing people up front about something with a monetary gamble might lose them customers and revenue. As it is, people are duped into believing that they are simply buying cards for a TCG. Before they realize the pattern they're in, some are spending hundreds of dollars hoping for the chance outcome of a desirable loot item. After they recognize the familiar pattern, it's too late.
Why will they not simply run a tournament as a product promotional, like WoW's tournament cited above? My opinion: Because product promotionals do not charge a fee. It appears that getting as much money as possible up front is more important than showcasing the product.
people won't bend to your opinion the keyword being OPINION of the possiblity it COULD keyword COULD be gambling because their OPINION differs from yours. Your entitled to your OPINION archangel, but asking them to have your OPINION is unfair.
all the writing in the world wont change that what you feel is not what others feel. You are going to have to accept that not everyone will agree with you and live with it. If you feel its gambling that's fine. I however do not agree with you and feel that it is not gambling and that is fine too. Your opinions as to why they feel that way are simply that as well and and in my case your personal opinions about it could not be farther from the truth.
i dont think its a matter of opinion. i believe it to be a matter of interpreteation, as i stated on an earlier post.
ummax, post your definition of gambling, followed by a description of how to obtain tcg loot and explain to us how, in your "opinion" the tcg loot is not gambling.
Why will a few people not admit it's gambling? My opinion: If people admit that it's gambling, it would be subject to regulation as such. It appears that the game would not meet these regulations (e.g. odds of winning a prize by chance (that you pay for) are verified by a third party). They would also require age validation for online rmt that has a chance outcome. Also, people with a gambling problem would, hopefully, steer clear of this. Informing people up front about something with a monetary gamble might lose them customers and revenue. As it is, people are duped into believing that they are simply buying cards for a TCG. Before they realize the pattern they're in, some are spending hundreds of dollars hoping for the chance outcome of a desirable loot item. After they recognize the familiar pattern, it's too late.
Why will they not simply run a tournament as a product promotional, like WoW's tournament cited above? My opinion: Because product promotionals do not charge a fee. It appears that getting as much money as possible up front is more important than showcasing the product.
Yeah, that's what I mean. None of this seems to be a bad thing as a consumer - except if you're a kid of course.
Honestly, at this point, I just don't know why SOE seems to always end up on the wrong side of controversy. Could they run promotional tournaments in places like Nevada etc. if they wanted to? Sure they could. Blizzard does it.
Could they offer a TCG without an element of paying money for a chance at performance-enhancing loot in an MMO? Sure they could.
Could they allow people to actually own the trading cards that they "purchase" from them? Again, yes they certainly could.
Could they make sure that the loot cards actually have a function in the TCG? Yup.
Could they let people know the odds of getting a rare loot item? Yes, WoW does it, so SOE could too.
Could they ensure that the cards you get as part of your subscription are equal in value to those that people have to gamble for? Sure, all they'd have to do is make them tradeable also.
Despite all of these options available to them, they have chosen not to do any of the above it would seem. In so doing, I believe they invite controversy. They also set themselves apart from their competition but always in a negative way it seems.
P.S. Regarding my opinion, yes I identify what is in fact simply my opinion, and I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me. What a boring world it would be if they did. I cleary distinguish fact from opinion in my posts. For example, it's a fact that the loot items in the TCG can affect gameplay. It's also a fact that some people are spending money on card packs for a random chance of winning a loot item. How do I know this? They say so repeatedly on the official forums. It's also a fact that SOE can't run their tournaments in certain jurisdictions because, according to an SOE spokesperson, they charge an entry fee and offer prizes. It's a fact that running the tournaments as is, in these jurisdictions, would be illegal. It's also a fact that one of SOE's main competitor's, Blizzard, runs their TCG tournaments in these same jurisdictions because their tournaments meet the regulations. Anyone is welcome to point out any instance of me confusing fact with opinion. If I make an error, I'll gladly correct it
.
Avoiding the main topic, what changes to the SWG: TCG would not make it gambling and be acceptable globally as a feature? In this since, make it acceptable as WOW: TCG and EQ: TCG for all regions to play. This very issue is probably burning on the "White Boards" of SOE and Lucas Arts.
In other words, cut the crap and make this thing fully available to all.
Why will a few people not admit it's gambling? My opinion: If people admit that it's gambling, it would be subject to regulation as such. It appears that the game would not meet these regulations (e.g. odds of winning a prize by chance (that you pay for) are verified by a third party). They would also require age validation for online rmt that has a chance outcome. Also, people with a gambling problem would, hopefully, steer clear of this. Informing people up front about something with a monetary gamble might lose them customers and revenue. As it is, people are duped into believing that they are simply buying cards for a TCG. Before they realize the pattern they're in, some are spending hundreds of dollars hoping for the chance outcome of a desirable loot item. After they recognize the familiar pattern, it's too late.
Why will they not simply run a tournament as a product promotional, like WoW's tournament cited above? My opinion: Because product promotionals do not charge a fee. It appears that getting as much money as possible up front is more important than showcasing the product.
people won't bend to your opinion the keyword being OPINION of the possiblity it COULD keyword COULD be gambling because their OPINION differs from yours. Your entitled to your OPINION archangel, but asking them to have your OPINION is unfair.
all the writing in the world wont change that what you feel is not what others feel. You are going to have to accept that not everyone will agree with you and live with it. If you feel its gambling that's fine. I however do not agree with you and feel that it is not gambling and that is fine too. Your opinions as to why they feel that way are simply that as well and and in my case your personal opinions about it could not be farther from the truth.
i dont think its a matter of opinion. i believe it to be a matter of interpreteation, as i stated on an earlier post.
ummax, post your definition of gambling, followed by a description of how to obtain tcg loot and explain to us how, in your "opinion" the tcg loot is not gambling.
I recognize that your request for a definition isn't from me, and I'm interested to see the other poster's definition as well. Meanwhile, U.S. federal legislation on internet gambling provides the following definition that may be relevant:
"the staking or risking of property in order to win something of value based on the outcome of:
a contest of others [note the possible relevance to online tournaments with entry fees and prizes]
a sporting event, or
a game subject to chance
the purchase of a chance to win a lottery or other prize the award of which is predominantly subject to chance." [note the possible relevance to purchasing card packs for a chance to win performance enhancing loot items in an MMO]
While I'm on the subject, if anyone really wants a legal perspective on this or feels that they have been victimized by illegal internet gambling, you can of course contact the FTC; I also found the following website where people can obtain legal counsel on these matters: http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Federal-Laws/internet-gambling-ban.htm
Contact information is available via this link also for email and/or telephone consultation. There is generally a fee for the consultation it seems. I don't know this lawyer in any way, so can't comment on the quality of service. I just happened to notice the apparent expertise in the field of internet games of chance ^_^. Happy researching for those interested.
Another one who interprets tcg and tournament as being one and the same.
The TCG is available to all and all those regions do play it. The fine print you see is identical to the fine print you see on the eq/eq2 TCG in every way shape and form.
Bingo ^_^. No pun intended btw lol. If SOE and LEC did what you're suggesting here, I suspect that they'd avoid a lot of controversy, and that their game would be much more popular in the long run. They could also showcase it via tournaments in more regions, and compete in those areas with some of their main competitors. I think what this would require, however, is a shift away from the short-term, front-end, cash grab philosophy that seems to have plagued them repeatedly.
Why will a few people not admit it's gambling? My opinion: If people admit that it's gambling, it would be subject to regulation as such. It appears that the game would not meet these regulations (e.g. odds of winning a prize by chance (that you pay for) are verified by a third party). They would also require age validation for online rmt that has a chance outcome. Also, people with a gambling problem would, hopefully, steer clear of this. Informing people up front about something with a monetary gamble might lose them customers and revenue. As it is, people are duped into believing that they are simply buying cards for a TCG. Before they realize the pattern they're in, some are spending hundreds of dollars hoping for the chance outcome of a desirable loot item. After they recognize the familiar pattern, it's too late.
Why will they not simply run a tournament as a product promotional, like WoW's tournament cited above? My opinion: Because product promotionals do not charge a fee. It appears that getting as much money as possible up front is more important than showcasing the product.
people won't bend to your opinion the keyword being OPINION of the possiblity it COULD keyword COULD be gambling because their OPINION differs from yours. Your entitled to your OPINION archangel, but asking them to have your OPINION is unfair.
all the writing in the world wont change that what you feel is not what others feel. You are going to have to accept that not everyone will agree with you and live with it. If you feel its gambling that's fine. I however do not agree with you and feel that it is not gambling and that is fine too. Your opinions as to why they feel that way are simply that as well and and in my case your personal opinions about it could not be farther from the truth.
i dont think its a matter of opinion. i believe it to be a matter of interpreteation, as i stated on an earlier post.
ummax, post your definition of gambling, followed by a description of how to obtain tcg loot and explain to us how, in your "opinion" the tcg loot is not gambling.
love your mind games
gambling is betting with odds and placing money at a chance to win something
tcg is a card game period.. they sell booster packs and you buy them and play card games. There is no chance involved here you dont bet you play cards like go fish or crazy eights or whatever. What part of this is so hard for you to understand? Where is the gambling? There is no such thing as "tcg loot" not sure what you mean. Are you speaking of their loot tournaments where you win prizes? if this is the case then fine however the reason they can't hold their tournaments in those states is not because of gambling laws its because they can and often do for their high end tournaments charge a fee for admission. Sprint tournaments (the kinda I attend by the way) are in fact free and I just entered one today fyi.
You guys clearly have absolutely no understanding of what a TCG is, but this was covered before suffice it to say in your case I have not answered this very simple question for you so I am now. NO matter how hard you try though there is no way that a definition of gambling can be associated with a regular card game. When people play the TCG from day to day they don't bet money they dont win anything except for the game of cards. Its just a card game lol
really what is your problem with this?
p.s. I have decided to copy and paste this post onto notepad and the next time I see someone mix up tournaments and TCG's and say that its gambling I"m just going to cut and paste this identical response for you because it can't be made any simpler then this. sorry your reaching but then the average person knows this already.
Actually it seems as though you are the one lacking understanding.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
Why will a few people not admit it's gambling? My opinion: If people admit that it's gambling, it would be subject to regulation as such. It appears that the game would not meet these regulations (e.g. odds of winning a prize by chance (that you pay for) are verified by a third party). They would also require age validation for online rmt that has a chance outcome. Also, people with a gambling problem would, hopefully, steer clear of this. Informing people up front about something with a monetary gamble might lose them customers and revenue. As it is, people are duped into believing that they are simply buying cards for a TCG. Before they realize the pattern they're in, some are spending hundreds of dollars hoping for the chance outcome of a desirable loot item. After they recognize the familiar pattern, it's too late.
Why will they not simply run a tournament as a product promotional, like WoW's tournament cited above? My opinion: Because product promotionals do not charge a fee. It appears that getting as much money as possible up front is more important than showcasing the product.
people won't bend to your opinion the keyword being OPINION of the possiblity it COULD keyword COULD be gambling because their OPINION differs from yours. Your entitled to your OPINION archangel, but asking them to have your OPINION is unfair.
all the writing in the world wont change that what you feel is not what others feel. You are going to have to accept that not everyone will agree with you and live with it. If you feel its gambling that's fine. I however do not agree with you and feel that it is not gambling and that is fine too. Your opinions as to why they feel that way are simply that as well and and in my case your personal opinions about it could not be farther from the truth.
i dont think its a matter of opinion. i believe it to be a matter of interpreteation, as i stated on an earlier post.
ummax, post your definition of gambling, followed by a description of how to obtain tcg loot and explain to us how, in your "opinion" the tcg loot is not gambling.
love your mind games
gambling is betting with odds and placing money at a chance to win something
tcg is a card game period.. they sell booster packs and you buy them and play card games. There is no chance involved here you dont bet you play cards like go fish or crazy eights or whatever. What part of this is so hard for you to understand? Where is the gambling? There is no such thing as "tcg loot" not sure what you mean. Are you speaking of their loot tournaments where you win prizes? if this is the case then fine however the reason they can't hold their tournaments in those states is not because of gambling laws its because they can and often do for their high end tournaments charge a fee for admission. Sprint tournaments (the kinda I attend by the way) are in fact free and I just entered one today fyi.
You guys clearly have absolutely no understanding of what a TCG is, but this was covered before suffice it to say in your case I have not answered this very simple question for you so I am now. NO matter how hard you try though there is no way that a definition of gambling can be associated with a regular card game. When people play the TCG from day to day they don't bet money they dont win anything except for the game of cards. Its just a card game lol
really what is your problem with this?
p.s. I have decided to copy and paste this post onto notepad and the next time I see someone mix up tournaments and TCG's and say that its gambling I"m just going to cut and paste this identical response for you because it can't be made any simpler then this. sorry your reaching but then the average person knows this already.
Are you sure you want to say that there is no such thing as loot in the TCG? Really, who do you think you're kidding?
Do you really not see the difference between a regular TCG (regular card game as you say) and one that has people paying for a chance to win loot items in an MMO?
I believe you acknowledged in an earlier post that people are buying card packs for a chance at the loot items. Have you forgotten that or now changed your mind for some reason?
You did get part of the tournament issue right when you mention the entry fees. However, what you failed to mention was that the issue is for entry fees in association with the chance of winning prizes. A few posts up, I've quoted some legislation that may be relevant to paying a fee for the chance of winning prizes via an event against others. It's found in the most recent American internet gambling law.
If you want to do your own research on these issues, you can use the link I provided also. You certainly don't need to listen to me, or agree with me; I take no offence.
Another one who interprets tcg and tournament as being one and the same.
The TCG is available to all and all those regions do play it. The fine print you see is identical to the fine print you see on the eq/eq2 TCG in every way shape and form.
Your are correct in anyone can buy the boosters and play senarios(single play) offerings. TCG can stand alone with out Tournaments. But, I have friends (via SWG and ventrilo) in London who buy the boosters. They love the Loot Cards but are not able to play in the tournaments. They are bared from joining in on any specials such as the recent Droopy McCool tournament. This rewarded the Guise of the Master Loot Card, 3 packs of Galatic Hunters Boosters and the Droopy McCool unit card. The only way they can get this Loot Card is if another player offers it on the Posted Trades. This essentially means they have to purchase boosters to get what is needed to trade. So there you have the Chance factor, again.
Another one who interprets tcg and tournament as being one and the same.
The TCG is available to all and all those regions do play it. The fine print you see is identical to the fine print you see on the eq/eq2 TCG in every way shape and form.
Your are correct in anyone can buy the boosters and play senarios(single play) offerings. TCG can stand alone with out Tournaments. But, I have friends (via SWG and ventrilo) in London who buy the boosters. They love the Loot Cards but are not able to play in the tournaments. They are bared from joining in on any specials such as the recent Droopy McCool tournament. This rewarded the Guise of the Master Loot Card, 3 packs of Galatic Hunters Boosters and the Droopy McCool unit card. The only way they can get this Loot Card is if another player offers it on the Posted Trades. This essentially means they have to purchase boosters to get what is needed to trade. So there you have the Chance factor, again.
Hey Jess, I have some questions for you about the tournaments if you don't mind. I want to see if I understand them correctly. It seems to me that those with prizes generally have an entry fee. Am I correct so far?
It also seems that part of this entry fee entitles you to some booster packs, and that with the booster packs people have a chance at desirable loot items. Am I still on track?
It also seems that the entry fee entitles you to compete in card games that give you a chance at more prizes. Further, this TCG, like most others I've played, seems to have a random element involved in it as well as skill. The random element would consist of cards randomly drawn that would make up your "hand." Am I still getting this right? This is different from a game of pure skill like chess, for example, where there is no random element such as drawing cards or rolling dice.
If all of this information is correct, then I would suggest that it is indeed the entry fee, the random chance and the prizes that conflict with legislation in various jurisdictions.
Again though, if this is all accurate, SOE could take steps to make their tournaments viable in more regions. Getting rid of the entry fee would be a step in the right direction it seems. After all, don't people already pay a fee just to access the game, and pay more for booster packs if they want?
The WoW tournament I referred to earlier seems to also have random elements and prizes, but no fee to enter--hence no monetary risk on a chance outcome for the participants.
Another one who interprets tcg and tournament as being one and the same.
The TCG is available to all and all those regions do play it. The fine print you see is identical to the fine print you see on the eq/eq2 TCG in every way shape and form.
Your are correct in anyone can buy the boosters and play senarios(single play) offerings. TCG can stand alone with out Tournaments. But, I have friends (via SWG and ventrilo) in London who buy the boosters. They love the Loot Cards but are not able to play in the tournaments. They are bared from joining in on any specials such as the recent Droopy McCool tournament. This rewarded the Guise of the Master Loot Card, 3 packs of Galatic Hunters Boosters and the Droopy McCool unit card. The only way they can get this Loot Card is if another player offers it on the Posted Trades. This essentially means they have to purchase boosters to get what is needed to trade. So there you have the Chance factor, again.
Hey Jess, I have some questions for you about the tournaments if you don't mind. I want to see if I understand them correctly. It seems to me that those with prizes generally have an entry fee. Am I correct so far?
It also seems that part of this entry fee entitles you to some booster packs, and that with the booster packs people have a chance at desirable loot items. Am I still on track?
It also seems that the entry fee entitles you to compete in card games that give you a chance at more prizes. Further, this TCG, like most others I've played, seems to have a random element involved in it as well as skill. The random element would consist of cards randomly drawn that would make up your "hand." Am I still getting this right? This is different from a game of pure skill like chess, for example, where there is no random element such as drawing cards or rolling dice.
If all of this information is correct, then I would suggest that it is indeed the entry fee, the random chance and the prizes that conflict with legislation in various jurisdictions.
Again though, if this is all accurate, SOE could take steps to make their tournaments viable in more regions. Getting rid of the entry fee would be a step in the right direction it seems. After all, don't people already pay a fee just to access the game, and pay more for booster packs if they want?
The WoW tournament I referred to earlier seems to also have random elements and prizes, but no fee to enter--hence no monetary risk on a chance outcome for the participants.
Special Scenarios are offered limitedly (current one is for a month, Droid Factory thing) for a month and are free [with an active account]. Scenarios are single play activities that when won award Game Cards and sometimes Loot Cards. Initial Starter Decks are free along with the 5 free boosters a month that have a chance of awarding Loot Cards. HOWEVER, non of the Starter Cards or monthly free Boosters are tradeable. Only purchased Booster Cards, Tournement & Senario wins and Event Passes are tradable.
Daily Tournaments are free and held twice a day. Winning the daily Tournaments award points towards a rank system. Here is the current months Spirit System:
"Twice every week day at alternating times (see schedule below), a four-round Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game Sprint constructed tournament will be held in the Tournaments Lobby.
Entrants in the tournament will receive Sprint points based on participation and number of wins.
Cumulative rankings will be posted after each event on the Sprint leaderboards.
On the last weekday of the month, the player with the most Sprint points on the Sprint leaderboards will win:
- A "Choose A Loot Card" good for a Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game loot card from the current set.
- A virtual Gold Sprint Winner Medal, displayed next to the winner's name in the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game lobbies.
Players with 100 or more Sprint points for the month will receive:
- A virtual Silver Sprint Winner Medal, displayed next to the players' name in the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game lobbies.
Players with 40 to 99 Sprint points for the month will receive:
- A virtual Bronze Sprint Winner Medal, displayed next to the players' name in the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game lobbies.
Players will earn Sprint promo cards at the following rates:
- 30 Sprint points = 1 promo card
- 40 Sprint points = 2 promo cards
- 50 Sprint points = 3 promo cards
- 60 Sprint points = 4 promo cards
- 70 Sprint points = 4 promo cards + 1 foil promo card
- 80 Sprint points = 4 promo cards + 2 foil promo cards
- 90 Sprint points = 4 promo cards + 3 foil promo cards
- 100+ Sprint points = 4 promo cards + 4 foil promo cards
On the first weekday of the next month, all Sprint points and Sprint rankings will be reset, but medal winners will keep their medals. If players win subsequent medals of the same color, a number will appear inside that medal. For example, the number "3" will appear inside a three-time gold winner's medal.
The Sprint point schedule for daily Sprint events looks like this:
- Receive one (1) point for each round lost.
- Receive three (3) points for each round won.
The fewest number of Sprint points a player can receive for a completed tournament is four (4), and the maximum is twelve (12).
The monthly Sprint schedule is as follows: (provided no other events are in progress)
Mondays - 11:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. (PT - U.S.A.)
Tuesdays - 11:00 a.m. and 6:30 p.m. (PT - U.S.A.)
Wednesdays - 11:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. (PT - U.S.A.)
Thursdays - 11:00a.m. and 6:30 p.m. (PT - U.S.A.)
Fridays - 11:00a.m. and 5:00 p.m. (PT - U.S.A.)
(The April 2009 Sprint begins on April 1st and ends on April 30th.)
Please see the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game Events Calendar for details on this month's Sprints.
Players can still enter as many Sprint tournaments as they would like, however, only the best four (4) Sprint point showings each week will be tallied for a player. All other Sprint tournaments will not count for points, but Sprint games played will help decide tie-breakers. If a month ends in the middle of the week, players will receive credit for the top four events for each partial week.
The format for daily events will be four (4) rounds of Swiss play, although we'll occasionally post special formats a couple of days in advance to keep players on their toes, competitively speaking! All Sprint ratings will now be updated each night and not at the conclusion of the event.
The results of Sprint tournaments will have no impact on other tournament ratings and rankings.
The April 2009 monthly Sprint promo card is Clan Mother Gethzerion (3P6)!"
So to answer your first question, no you dont have to pay a fee to win a prize but you have to go through this system and be a winner. The Choose your Loot Card card is pretty cool but limited to that expansions list of Loot Cards; (i.e.: Squadrons over Corellia, Galatic Hunters and Champions of the Force)
The special monthly tournments with instent rewarded Events Packs (i.e. Droopy McCool) award Special Game Card, a Special Loot Card and 3 Boosters Packs. You get these shortly after you enter that tournament for 10 Event Passes and begin play. I have just learned that it is possible to buy the Event Packs from the store without entering the tournament. See here:
http://forums.station.sony.com/strategygames/posts/list.m?topic_id=19429
Hmm, save me a lot of headaches.
Yes, there is a random chance in card selection. I wish the game offered a Shuffle option as your deck could be stack against you at the beginning of a play session. Getting all Tatical cards with no Ability cards can blow.
From my discovery, it looks like SOE and LEC are taking steps to open this game up even to those closed markets in a limited fashion. Hmm, cool. Now I guess its a matter of being a cash market. Oh well...
The aversion comes from the blind hatred of SOE by some to affect the TCG gaming community as a whole.
If these ex Star Wars Galaxies "vets" end up getting all TCG's banned in my state due to some stupid nerd rage about something that happened 4+ years ago... I will be more than a little pissed off.
When I read this, the first thing that popped into my head was "Oh great another SWG vet just looking for another excuse to bash SOE on MMORPG.com."
Which is exactly what it is.
Who really cares if some reject wants to pay obscene amounts of money to SOE at a card "tourney" for the chance to get a "loot" card so he can have a special looking lightsaber inside the game.
World of Warcraft also does this, offering in game items and mounts inside it's TCG. I personally know people who have spent 2 thousand dollars on boxes upon boxes of fires of outland just for a shot at the Spectral Tiger Mount.
What it amounts to is smart business on the parts of Blizzard and SOE. People play their games and then give them what equates to 133 months of sub fees trying to luckily gain 1 item from the TCG to use in game.
So why wasn't this brought up about Blizzard doing exactly the same thing, how come WoW:TCG isn't gambling?
Because it really doesn't matter. TCG is a form of entertainment. If you don't want your children "gambling" then don't buy them the cards.
If you are an adult and play, well then that's your business. Everyone else should just back the f**k up and leave it be.
The aversion comes from the blind hatred of SOE by some to affect the TCG gaming community as a whole.
If these ex Star Wars Galaxies "vets" end up getting all TCG's banned in my state due to some stupid nerd rage about something that happened 4+ years ago... I will be more than a little pissed off.
When I read this, the first thing that popped into my head was "Oh great another SWG vet just looking for another excuse to bash SOE on MMORPG.com."
Which is exactly what it is.
Who really cares if some reject wants to pay obscene amounts of money to SOE at a card "tourney" for the chance to get a "loot" card so he can have a special looking lightsaber inside the game.
World of Warcraft also does this, offering in game items and mounts inside it's TCG. I personally know people who have spent 2 thousand dollars on boxes upon boxes of fires of outland just for a shot at the Spectral Tiger Mount.
What it amounts to is smart business on the parts of Blizzard and SOE. People play their games and then give them what equates to 133 months of sub fees trying to luckily gain 1 item from the TCG to use in game.
So why wasn't this brought up about Blizzard doing exactly the same thing, how come WoW:TCG isn't gambling?
Because it really doesn't matter. TCG is a form of entertainment. If you don't want your children "gambling" then don't buy them the cards.
If you are an adult and play, well then that's your business. Everyone else should just back the f**k up and leave it be.
This has already been covered. The WoW TCG and the SWG TCG are completely different and that is why the WoW tournaments are legal in all states.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
Another one who interprets tcg and tournament as being one and the same.
The TCG is available to all and all those regions do play it. The fine print you see is identical to the fine print you see on the eq/eq2 TCG in every way shape and form.
Your are correct in anyone can buy the boosters and play senarios(single play) offerings. TCG can stand alone with out Tournaments. But, I have friends (via SWG and ventrilo) in London who buy the boosters. They love the Loot Cards but are not able to play in the tournaments. They are bared from joining in on any specials such as the recent Droopy McCool tournament. This rewarded the Guise of the Master Loot Card, 3 packs of Galatic Hunters Boosters and the Droopy McCool unit card. The only way they can get this Loot Card is if another player offers it on the Posted Trades. This essentially means they have to purchase boosters to get what is needed to trade. So there you have the Chance factor, again.
Hey Jess, I have some questions for you about the tournaments if you don't mind. I want to see if I understand them correctly. It seems to me that those with prizes generally have an entry fee. Am I correct so far?
It also seems that part of this entry fee entitles you to some booster packs, and that with the booster packs people have a chance at desirable loot items. Am I still on track?
It also seems that the entry fee entitles you to compete in card games that give you a chance at more prizes. Further, this TCG, like most others I've played, seems to have a random element involved in it as well as skill. The random element would consist of cards randomly drawn that would make up your "hand." Am I still getting this right? This is different from a game of pure skill like chess, for example, where there is no random element such as drawing cards or rolling dice.
If all of this information is correct, then I would suggest that it is indeed the entry fee, the random chance and the prizes that conflict with legislation in various jurisdictions.
Again though, if this is all accurate, SOE could take steps to make their tournaments viable in more regions. Getting rid of the entry fee would be a step in the right direction it seems. After all, don't people already pay a fee just to access the game, and pay more for booster packs if they want?
The WoW tournament I referred to earlier seems to also have random elements and prizes, but no fee to enter--hence no monetary risk on a chance outcome for the participants.
Special Scenarios are offered limitedly (current one is for a month, Droid Factory thing) for a month and are free [with an active account]. Scenarios are single play activities that when won award Game Cards and sometimes Loot Cards. Initial Starter Decks are free along with the 5 free boosters a month that have a chance of awarding Loot Cards. HOWEVER, non of the Starter Cards or monthly free Boosters are tradeable. Only purchased Booster Cards, Tournement & Senario wins and Event Passes are tradable.
Daily Tournaments are free and held twice a day. Winning the daily Tournaments award points towards a rank system. Here is the current months Spirit System:
"Twice every week day at alternating times (see schedule below), a four-round Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game Sprint constructed tournament will be held in the Tournaments Lobby.
Entrants in the tournament will receive Sprint points based on participation and number of wins.
Cumulative rankings will be posted after each event on the Sprint leaderboards.
On the last weekday of the month, the player with the most Sprint points on the Sprint leaderboards will win:
- A "Choose A Loot Card" good for a Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game loot card from the current set.
- A virtual Gold Sprint Winner Medal, displayed next to the winner's name in the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game lobbies.
Players with 100 or more Sprint points for the month will receive:
- A virtual Silver Sprint Winner Medal, displayed next to the players' name in the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game lobbies.
Players with 40 to 99 Sprint points for the month will receive:
- A virtual Bronze Sprint Winner Medal, displayed next to the players' name in the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game lobbies.
Players will earn Sprint promo cards at the following rates:
- 30 Sprint points = 1 promo card
- 40 Sprint points = 2 promo cards
- 50 Sprint points = 3 promo cards
- 60 Sprint points = 4 promo cards
- 70 Sprint points = 4 promo cards + 1 foil promo card
- 80 Sprint points = 4 promo cards + 2 foil promo cards
- 90 Sprint points = 4 promo cards + 3 foil promo cards
- 100+ Sprint points = 4 promo cards + 4 foil promo cards
On the first weekday of the next month, all Sprint points and Sprint rankings will be reset, but medal winners will keep their medals. If players win subsequent medals of the same color, a number will appear inside that medal. For example, the number "3" will appear inside a three-time gold winner's medal.
The Sprint point schedule for daily Sprint events looks like this:
- Receive one (1) point for each round lost.
- Receive three (3) points for each round won.
The fewest number of Sprint points a player can receive for a completed tournament is four (4), and the maximum is twelve (12).
The monthly Sprint schedule is as follows: (provided no other events are in progress)
Mondays - 11:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. (PT - U.S.A.)
Tuesdays - 11:00 a.m. and 6:30 p.m. (PT - U.S.A.)
Wednesdays - 11:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. (PT - U.S.A.)
Thursdays - 11:00a.m. and 6:30 p.m. (PT - U.S.A.)
Fridays - 11:00a.m. and 5:00 p.m. (PT - U.S.A.)
(The April 2009 Sprint begins on April 1st and ends on April 30th.)
Please see the Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game Events Calendar for details on this month's Sprints.
Players can still enter as many Sprint tournaments as they would like, however, only the best four (4) Sprint point showings each week will be tallied for a player. All other Sprint tournaments will not count for points, but Sprint games played will help decide tie-breakers. If a month ends in the middle of the week, players will receive credit for the top four events for each partial week.
The format for daily events will be four (4) rounds of Swiss play, although we'll occasionally post special formats a couple of days in advance to keep players on their toes, competitively speaking! All Sprint ratings will now be updated each night and not at the conclusion of the event.
The results of Sprint tournaments will have no impact on other tournament ratings and rankings.
The April 2009 monthly Sprint promo card is Clan Mother Gethzerion (3P6)!"
So to answer your first question, no you dont have to pay a fee to win a prize but you have to go through this system and be a winner. The Choose your Loot Card card is pretty cool but limited to that expansions list of Loot Cards; (i.e.: Squadrons over Corellia, Galatic Hunters and Champions of the Force)
The special monthly tournments with instent rewarded Events Packs (i.e. Droopy McCool) award Special Game Card, a Special Loot Card and 3 Boosters Packs. You get these shortly after you enter that tournament for 10 Event Passes and begin play. I have just learned that it is possible to buy the Event Packs from the store without entering the tournament. See here:
http://forums.station.sony.com/strategygames/posts/list.m?topic_id=19429
Hmm, save me a lot of headaches.
Yes, there is a random chance in card selection. I wish the game offered a Shuffle option as your deck could be stack against you at the beginning of a play session. Getting all Tatical cards with no Ability cards can blow.
From my discovery, it looks like SOE and LEC are taking steps to open this game up even to those closed markets in a limited fashion. Hmm, cool. Now I guess its a matter of being a cash market. Oh well...
Thanks for the detailed response Jess. I think I'm following you, but I'm not 100% clear on something. There appear to be two types of tournaments. One type has no entry fee and involves sprint points. The other type has an entry fee of event passes that can be purchased at the online store. Here are the listings about what I'm referring to:
5:00PM PT (server time)
Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game Sprint Constructed Tournament
Entry Fee: FREE
Format/Deck: Constructed Deck
4 Rounds
Players will earn Sprint Points for this event.
No rewards for this individual event. Monthly Sprint winners will be awarded at the end of the month.
This event is open to all registered players. See the Sprint details for more information.
10:00AM PT (server time)
Galactic Hunters Winner's Choice Constructed Tournament
Entry Fee: 5 Event Passes
Format/Deck: Constructed Deck
128-Player Event
1st Place: One Galactic Hunters Choose a Loot card and 5 Galactic Hunters Booster Packs
2nd Place: 10 Galactic Hunters Booster Packs
3rd Place: 8 Galactic Hunters Booster Packs
4th Place: 6 Galactic Hunters Booster Packs
5th-16th Place: 2 Galactic Hunters Booster Packs
Everyone Else: 1 Galactic Hunters Booster Pack
*The above rewards are based on 128 or more entrants
If I'm not mistaken, the tournament that was referred to in the O.P. was one that required event passes for participation. It seems that there are two types of tournaments and that it is the second type that has stirred up the controversy. Am I understanding this correctly?
The aversion comes from the blind hatred of SOE by some to affect the TCG gaming community as a whole.
If these ex Star Wars Galaxies "vets" end up getting all TCG's banned in my state due to some stupid nerd rage about something that happened 4+ years ago... I will be more than a little pissed off.
When I read this, the first thing that popped into my head was "Oh great another SWG vet just looking for another excuse to bash SOE on MMORPG.com."
Which is exactly what it is.
Who really cares if some reject wants to pay obscene amounts of money to SOE at a card "tourney" for the chance to get a "loot" card so he can have a special looking lightsaber inside the game.
World of Warcraft also does this, offering in game items and mounts inside it's TCG. I personally know people who have spent 2 thousand dollars on boxes upon boxes of fires of outland just for a shot at the Spectral Tiger Mount.
What it amounts to is smart business on the parts of Blizzard and SOE. People play their games and then give them what equates to 133 months of sub fees trying to luckily gain 1 item from the TCG to use in game.
So why wasn't this brought up about Blizzard doing exactly the same thing, how come WoW:TCG isn't gambling?
Because it really doesn't matter. TCG is a form of entertainment. If you don't want your children "gambling" then don't buy them the cards.
If you are an adult and play, well then that's your business. Everyone else should just back the f**k up and leave it be.
This is very easy to respond to. A number of people that didn't get bent out of shape over the NGE, that got over it quickly, or that joined SWG long after the NGE have expressed concern about the TCG and the way it is run. The official boards are full of complaints about certain aspects of it. So there isn't a direct relationship between the NGE and concern over the TCG, apart from a possible pattern of unethical behaviour that people may dislike.
As for your comparison with WoW's TCG. That's also easy to respond to, and I wouldn't really need to respond if you had read the thread. It's long though, so I don't really blame you for skipping a lot of it. WoW's TCG tournaments, like the one in question offered by SOE, have prizes. Unlike SOE's though, they do not have an entry fee. Having prizes with no entry fee appears legal in the states listed. Prizes with an entry fee appears to violate some state legislation.
So to summarize, no this isn't about the NGE as you suggest, and the WoW tournament referred to is legal in Nevada because it is different than the SOE tournament being discussed here, not the same.
I don't think you can blame the problems on disgruntled former SWG players. That seems to be the party line for SOE defenders for some reason. I think really you should be asking SOE why Blizz can run tournaments with prizes in Nevada and they can't. I believe the answer will be something about entry fees. If you can talk SOE into letting go of some of your cash, I think this controversy might be resolved rather easily.
As an Englishman, I find it strange that America, "The Land of the Free" has laws against gambling and that so many gamers are eager to defend these laws.
What's next? Banning booze? :P
No need to ban booze when there are rules governing where, when, and who has access to it.
In short, yep.
We do restrict booze from minors at a later age than most of europe. 21. Never understood why one could serve in the Military but can't drink. Because of my age and when the law changed, I joked "I am a once and future minor."
I'm surprised you sank this low.
America is not "the land of the free, because we have no rules".
All you are trying to do is derail the thread with a ridiculous off topic and completely unrelated issue.
Is the card game gambling? Yes and no, but I think people are blurring the lines and getting the issues confused.
Are the loot cards gambling in a sense of SOE vs The united state of america?
It would be an extremely hard case to win. Not that I don't think some talented (or bottom feeding) lawyer could not make a case. It would just be very difficult to prove in a realistic manner. For the most part the star wars trading card game is the same as buying a pack of baseball cards for the chance of getting a rare print for the aftermarket collectable value it offers. The real difference is that it might be argued that soe is in a comtrolling and invested relationship with the aftermarket value of the items since they can only be sold while subscribed to the soe service (swg) and the collectable value of the cards can be used as currency in the actual game (not through 3rd party market, but player to player).
Even though the whole concept of the trading card game has gambling undertones, I doubt it is legally gambling.
SOE vs Their customers.
Sorry folks, this is gambling, but not in an law breaking las vegas style gambling commission sort of way. John Smedly fully admitted in an interview that the card game was introduced for the sole purpose of soe getting into the real money transaction market. Now ask yourself what you get for the real money you spend on each transaction? A CHANCE to get something. Spending money for the chance to get something is gambling. People can play whatever word games they want, but the truth is right there and that was the goal of soes card game from its very creation.
Game developer time was removed from the "free update" cycles and dedicated towards creating the card game. To get the full content of those efforts now requires someone to pay for the chance to aquire it.
In short, yep.
Lol ok thanks Jess, that's what I thought. So, when Virrago says we can't offer these tournaments with entry fees and prizes in certain jurisdictions, it really is just that simple. The entry fees, along with prizes and probably the chance elements in the game, seem to conflict with consumer protection legislation in various jurisdictions.
All the maneuvering, posturing etc. by some folks in this thread doesn't seem to invalidate this simple reality that was publicly stated by SOE anyways.
Also, for Badger's comments, the UK's recent internet legislation is in fact more restrictive than some in the U.S.. Do some reading fella. Also, Daffid is quite right. Being the land of the free does not mean that corporations are free to abuse consumers and ignore consumer protection legislation. In fact, tolerance for this kind of corporate abuse is at an all time low--and rightly so.
Furthermore, it still seems that the key issue is entry fees. Can you play WoW TCG tournaments with prizes in the jurisdictions mentioned? Yes. Why? Apparently because there is no entry fee. Can you play the SOE tournaments that have an entry fee in the same jurisdiction? No.
Suggested solution: SOE get rid of the entry fee and let people have some fun. You already charge them for everything they need to play the game in the first place, and you even charge them an ongoing fee to access their cards--cards that you "sell" to people and then still claim to own.
Have you really learned anything from years of consumer backlash?
P.S. for those that have a hard time seeing the difference between the tournaments (not you btw Jess ^_^). In the SOE tournament with an entry fee, you are paying SOE for a chance to compete in a game of chance for the chance to win prizes. In the WoW tournament you have a chance to compete and a chance to win prizes, but you are not paying Blizzard for the chance to win. BIG difference when it comes to consumer protection legislation.
One company is running a product promotional. The other appears to be selling you a chance to win prizes. Therein lies the difference I believe. For those inclined to vent anger on law-makers or consumers, I think you need to recognize that SOE does not have to set their tournaments up like this. They choose to do so, apparently to get more of your cash. Maybe think about that for a bit and let it settle in before you decide where to focus your frustration.