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Was it all Mythics doing or did EA play a part....(WAR)
Jackio81
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 418
Well it's common knowledge now that WAR is a watered down half baked WoW clone that was made to draw casual PvPers with its even more brainless style of button meshing gameplay and zero skill requirements, and pretty much even offended the casual players on how brainless it was. But I can't help but to think Mythic wasn't behind all of this stupid decision making and that EA played a major part in it.
I mean let me pose another question while at it.....would you trust Mythic with another MMO if EA was to seriously bow out of this one...or do you think they'd mess it up again. Because honestly I still expect more from Mythic than what I got here.
Maybe not as much as Daoc but definitely more than WAR.
Comments
<p>Warhammer online's failure is due in whole to EA and Mythic m8 they pissed off games workshop so that only the pvp part of hte game was completed. EA does what EA wants and ruins a great concept for a game its how they work its horribly sad though to think what warhammer online could have been and see what it is. To say its a crappy WoW clone is an understatement because WoW is a crappy MMo how can you get worse? well somehow EA succeded in doing a worse than WoW mmo with all the wealth of warhammer at there finger tips they pissed off the creators of warhammer and still decided to release the game calling it warhammer online without putting anything truly related to warhammer in the game its just really sad but its what they did.</p>
I am the monkey
I know this is a WAR hating thread. BUt the fact is that WAR with all its flaws is still a better MMO than a majority of other games out there. If its mnot what you want, best thing to do is go back to the last game you enjoyed playing
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
No, WAR isn't as bad as the OP makes it sound. It just didn't bring everything together to make a compelling experience.
Exactly. It's a good enough game, but there are other games I'd rather be playing. But gullible gamers like the original poster, who fell for the advertising hype and got butthurt when they didn't get the life-changing experience they were expecting, always have to make their angry little rants so they can feel better. Once he's had a good cry, he can go outside and get some fresh air.
Exactly. It's a good enough game, but there are other games I'd rather be playing. But gullible gamers like the original poster, who fell for the advertising hype and got butthurt when they didn't get the life-changing experience they were expecting, always have to make their angry little rants so they can feel better. Once he's had a good cry, he can go outside and get some fresh air.
LoL
Hmmm..."life changing experience," from the level of you trying to flame me me guesses you're the one that went through all that, sometimes when people go through a humiliating experience they tend to search out others that have probably gone through the same so they can point and laugh to make themselves feel better....=O
(lol...maybe I shouldn't go there considering how pointless this argument will lead up to being...>>)
Anyways I never bought WAR just played it off my roommates account....plus I find ppl that see MMOs as a religious experience...umm...kinda scary...... ;P
Ahem..
I will grant that the game had a lot of appeal mostly thanks to the art department (some don't like the cartoonish look but then again we're talking about the original Warcraft...lol), but the game was way to shallow and hardly any of the lore and overall feeling of the original work was missing.
Still question is was it mostly EAs doing and would you trust Mythic again?
Its obvious WAR has perfect mini fun down to a science. THe problem is after you level to 40 and the same thing gets old. One major PvE expansion would fix every problem this game has. That being said Im playing other things until that content expansion come out.
100% down to Mythic because all the major gameplay mechanics were designed by the time EA bought them and they had plenty of time to make the game and were given a deadline and even allowed to delay it. Mythic were the developers so it's Mythics fault.
I found WAR to be pretty fun for the first couple of months. Its too MMO-lite to be played for the long-term, but the game is still one of the better ones released lately.
WAR failed in one respect, PvP had no real gain or loss, that being said it was STILL better then WoWackness.
Then again games after UO and Everquest have let me down over all lol.
WAR failed in one respect, PvP had no real gain or loss, that being said it was STILL better then WoWackness.
Then again games after UO and Everquest have let me down over all lol.
Better than WoW is a perspective statement.
From the perspective of Blizzard I doubt they would want to swap month income from WoW to WAR.
From player perspective WAR could be the best game ever.
However, UO is still what I rank as the best MMO I ever played (didn't like EQ but I know a lot of people who did). EQ was definitely in my opinion better than most of the "crap in a box" we get these days (so I agree even tho it wasn't my thing).
As to the OP's question... its on Mythic. Probably the biggest mistake Mythic made was picking up the WAR license to begin with. They had to shut down development on Imperator in order to afford the deal. Then as they put resources into WAR (and other people left the company) they started to lose the population in DAoC. Well along with the stupid changes they made to DAoC which appeared to be experiments for WAR.
Then they ended up having to sell to EA for as Mark Jacobs said at the time "the good of the company".
EA had tried to buy them once before that but wasn't successful.
Personally if I had been in Mark Jacobs position I would have never picked up a 3rd party IP... to many issues from my point of view.
I mean I loved SWG Pre-CU.. only MMO I liked more was Ultima Online. However, if you took SWG Pre-CU stripped out any reference to Star Wars... and just had a Sci Fi "virtual world". You would still have had a game *I* would have loved without all the BS problems that a 3rd party IP imports.
Mythic should have known this... I actually wonder how much impact Games Workshop or the way "things had to be" factored into the game being the way it was/is.
*edited for more ramble*
To this specific thing:
"I mean let me pose another question while at it.....would you trust Mythic with another MMO if EA was to seriously bow out of this one...or do you think they'd mess it up again. "
What *I* do wonder about with the economy in the state that it is in... and the fact WAR already shut down 60+ servers world wide this quick after launch (I mean its not like this game is even a year old).
You have to remember that EA paid 860+ MILLION for Bioware and how long do you think it will be before The Old Republic is ready. So there is this phase where if WAR actually starts to lose money you are going to have some kind of reaction.
It takes multiple years for an MMO to recover development costs and actually make a profit.
Do you think Jacobs can pull the capital to buy his company back? I mean if EA figured some kind of cash infusion was better than just shutting it down... I'm not saying that I know this game is losing money... or even that it will lose money. This could happen and if EA did "bow out" I'd honestly wonder if there would even be a Mythic left after...
EA isn't really known for keeping dead or dying MMO's on life support.
Please remember this is just speculation based on the question asked and what "could be" or "might be"... its not supposed to be a factual statement for the current time.
I suppose the short answer is this:
Regardless of what happens. The people who made most of the great core systems in DAoC had already left Mythic. That alone probably explains a lot of the issues with WAR and why DAoC turned into what it did...
WAR failed in one respect, PvP had no real gain or loss, that being said it was STILL better then WoWackness.
Then again games after UO and Everquest have let me down over all lol.
LoL, sorry, but WoW has a wayyyyy higher skill cap than WAR, WoW is a way better PvP game than WAR. The only thing that keeps WoW from being a highly competitive game is how god awful its RNG is, and that was mostly Blizzard's idea to give novice players (noobs) a fighting chance against players with higher skills. Which funny enough is also what's keeping the classes balanced enough to be bearable to compete...lol
A game easy enough for noobs but yet complex enough to keep more seasoned players interested, what Blizzard likes to refer to the donut design.
Anyways, to recap, WAR failed because it took the donut design of WoW and decided to remove the inner circle...simple as that.
WAR's WoW cloned parts are the only good parts about it. All its unique stuff is either broken or poorly thought out. There designers are to blame for its deserved mediocre rating imo. They just have poor a vision and foresight at mythic. This is not to say that an avg player wont enjoy playing it for a month or so. It definitely wont be likely the best mmo experience they ever had though.
War is a great game. It's just not a good experience (for a few reasons):
Underdeveloped content (Scenario Lakes, Keeps, Public Quests). These things were all great ideas, (some not necessarily unique) but didn't get the poor design issues ironed out before launch.
Leveling Drudge. It happens around level 20, and just about everybody gets it. It's difficult to pin the cause on one issue. I'd say it is a combination of No New Scenery (Blizzard has learned that people need a scenery change about every 30 minutes or so to stay interested.) and Muddy Combat.
Muddy Combat. This is a big problem because it makes the game feel very detatched and uninteresting. It's difficult to get immersed in a game and enjoy it when control and combat doesn't feel solid.
The Least Immersive World Ever. Seriously.
They tried very hard. They produced a very complete product. It just wasn't enough to hold most people's attention.
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i know it;s trendy to post hate threads on this forum but Warhammer really is a fantastic game and far far better then everything else I see onthe market right now.
Sinister Savant MMORPG Community
While it is obvious by the first few words in the OP's paragraph, "It's common knowledge that.... blah blah blah" that this is a troll post - there is no such thing as common knowledge when it comes to opinions and subjective criticism.
That said, I think WAR had some great ideas. Its first and largest fault is that as a PvP game (with PvE elements), it did NOT make a strong case for open-world PvP and forgot to implement any system of dealth penalty that would make people not want to zerg carelessly.
The fact that the majority of the players, even hardcore, would grind scenario after scenario wasn't because they didn't have time to PvP in the open world -- it was that the rewards were MUCH better than in open world PvP.
A few months later, they have made significant efforts to change this, but the damage is done. Populations have dipped, as has enthusiasm. At this point, WAR will likely persist as a "decent" game, but will never gain the market share I think it had the potential for.
I liked Mythic's approach to DAOC better, which was a polished PvE game with extensive PvP (RvR) elements that were available.
BTW, taking away the third realm concept was a big mistake!
Couldn't agree with you less. It has nothing to do with being trendy, it has to do with the game being horrible. You hit max level in no time at all, there's class balance issues all over the place and they keep fixing the wrong ones. Public Quests seemed like a good idea but since everyone levels through zones so fast no one does them, and the PvE part of the game is as boring and uninspired as it comes. You would of had to played no other MMO but WoW to think this game is good. Try playing some of the great MMOs that have come out over the years.
Is it is EA or Mythic? As much as I feel EA is the devil of video games and seems to buy up the rights to games just to kill them, in this case I fully blame mythic. They are doing the same they did with DAoC and rebalancing a game purely based of player whining on forums, and those are the minority of players who don't get it. WAR is just a grabage product all around.
Both WoW and War were made for 5 year olds. Neither one has any depth. Neither one has compelling PvP. They both take your hand at level 1 and lead you down a path. If i was 5-8 years old i would have really loved both games. Unfortunately i'm 38 and i need more out of a game than scenarios and quests.
Make a difference!
Well for me the PvP part of war was the best part. Its not mindless to me, you cant just zerg a keep that has actual players defending it, you'd get owned with the quickness. There are actual tactics used when taking a keep, now WoW's PvP on the other hand, save LW, since I havent played there yet, is mindless to me. Well I guess there are some tactics, but they are very basic. If im in a BG all i do is either guard the flag or just run with a group and kill people and protect our flag runner.
I got to the 3rd tier of WAR before I quit because even though I was having a blast with the RvR the PvE was lacking and a lot of features that I like in MMO's like item decay and a few other things were left out. But there was this battle I remember it was pretty close to 100vs.100 and we had all kinds of crazy stuff happening, It lasted at least 2 hours before Destruction gave up. But I have never had more fun PvPing in a game more than WAR it just wasn't enough to keep me playing the game.
The problem with Warhammer is that its overdesigned in almost any aspect of the game. And its probably all mythics fault.
Look at how the zones are designed. Its linar semi paralel roads through scripted content. The entire pvp is liniear in small two dimensional lakes of pvp. All events are over scripted do a. do b, do c repeat.
The developers seems to have been so afraid of any player initiative that each and every element in the game is so prescripted that the players just have to go through the motions. City sieges is not really pvp, is taking dungean a.b.c for pts and gear raiding.
There is nothing left to randomness or player initiative. Everything follows a single linear line carefully created by the developers for the players to follow and nothing else is possible to do in the game.
Daoc started out as a glorious chaos but as the game progressed and you saw new frontier you saw the railroading and scripting trying to force people to behave in simple predictable way. Then the development team at that time was moved to WaR and a new team took over and undid some of the damage that the now WaR guys did so the game still had some life left in it.
Now the people who tried to railroad and stiffen RvR in Daoc then had WaR (and this was people from before the EA time) and they perfected their vision in WaR making a basically static and boring game where players can play along the creators limited vision or leave.
Its all mythic sadly. The part of mythic that almost killed daoc 4 years ago.
"You are the hero our legends have foretold will save our tribe, therefore please go kill 10 pigs."
This. You uninformed people really need to stop pointing at EA to excuse Mythic of the way the game turned out. EA did not come in till well after the game was being designed. And the most significant things to happen *since* EA came in was the year long extension of development *and* the shift to add keeps in game.
If anything EA gave Mythic the possibility to further develop their game rather than release it a year earlier. I'm by no means saying EA is all roses and sunshine but the way this game was designed and turned out is hardly due to EA in this case.
You people also need to realize that this game simply did not have a very succesfull initial design, and, despite what some of you ORvR enthousiasts might have liked, was *not* focused on ORvR at all till they shifted to keep design. The early development was *highly* focused on the scenarios. The ORvR at the time, you can basically imagine by imagining the same thing you have now but *without* the keeps.
I personally think it's their shift in design that has caused them a lot of trouble actually, even though the original design would have displeased many, especially the people interested in OrvR. The heavy focus on Scenario's however would have made realm population much less important as the scenario's would make sure to keep things balanced, their Dogs of WAR idea would have been more realistic and the focus on scenario's would also have made a cross realm queuing system easier to implement into the whole design (something which they already mentioned they were heavily working on back 1,5 year before the release we saw now, before the shift).
Adding the keeps and focusing on RvR is what made the game vulnerable in new ways they, to what I expect, simply hadn't anticipated before since it would not have been such a big concern with their original design.
The problem is, people weren't pleased, and after the outburst in beta shortly before original release it was simply deemed the game wasn't ready yet and more was needed (A big complaint was BO's etc shifting hands on the fly, think musical keeps, without the keeps). That's when they started adding keeps to the ORvR and probably started putting more emphasis on ORvR influencing the war.(which is probably why it was still set so low come release time)
In retrospect, they probably should have kept to their original design. It might have seemed like a step away from their RvR roots but that could have been explained away as an attempt to make a Warhammer game for GW rather than the next incarnation of Daoc. However, since they started adding keeps that's exactly the image people were starting to and ended up expecting from it, an image it simply had no chance to live up to without significant further development.
He he so true. The biggest problem with WaR is actually the slogan "War is everywhere!" it was the base of the entire zone control system and its a basically boring idea.
The idea was that each side in a zone should grind public quests and scenarios day in and day out until one side got so many pts over the other that the zone would change control and now you had to do the same in the next zone.
The beta testers told mythic "this is boring" and the word boring is probably the worst thing you can say about a game. They didnt have time or money to ever really make a good warhammer game instead since they really had to start back from square one which is why we now see this still basically boring game but with elements that are just messy added.
"You are the hero our legends have foretold will save our tribe, therefore please go kill 10 pigs."
I don't know how you are getting that WAR "failed". Vanguard failed, Tabula Rasa failed, Hellgate London failed, Fury failed, SWG failed from launch along with countless others.
Did WAR do as well as people were hoping? Probably not. To say the game failed is a stretch.
To answer your question about EA, did you watch any of the hype that Mythic was spewing out for years before launch? They made the game exactly like they said (minus leaving out some stuff at launch) now those pieces they made didn't fit together all that well, PQ while a nice idea, don't really hold the attention of anyone for very long.
WAR's main issue is that it is it's mechanics are to similar to everything else out there and the RvR doesn't really have any impact on anything.
Its to much of a "game" and not enough of a "world at war". There is zero guild / player politics. Its just homoginized, steral PvP. Level based and point based.
It is fun to play however so all is forgiven IMHO (to a point).
Now what I don't understand is why they went to the world design they chose. What so hard about making a world map, throwing races in their home countries, give a racial faction / hate system with attack on sight for some (Dwarves and Greenskins for example) and a consequence system for others. Throw a butt load of forts and castles all over the place with territory boundries, a bunch of dungeons, a "real" craft & resource system and let the players have at it.
As it stands right now, it will be difficult for them to add more races because of the way the world is organized. More races will bleed off the existing player base and spread them out....sorta like the mess of DAoC which they utterly destroyed with many of the same basic issues.
Mythic made one other MMO...DAoC...please explore the history of the game if you want to see the fate of WAR.
I wonder if some player's issues stem from preconceived notions. Especially since Mythic did DAoC and for some reason they transferred the idea that this was going to be the successor to DAoC?
Because if one looks at some of the complaints in this thread, they seem to have everything to do with what the players fee is a good pvp based on what they wanted but not so much on what Warhammer seemed to actually try to do.
Looking at Warhammer it seems to me that they weren't making an open world mmo and that the gameplay would not represent the pvp gameplay of say, Lineage 2 or some other pvp game.
It seems to me that they made "a game". Probably in many respects like Guild Wars except their is more open world and one where players can indeed run into each other and take part in things like pvp or public quests.
I have to say that I spent a good part of the weekend playing Warhammer. And just as when I started to play, it had a great time.
However, I think one of the major flaws is one of ownership. I did several keep sieges and the one thing that really struck me is that there wasn't really incentive to continually lay siege to a particular keep. If it was too hard then people started talking about going elsewhere.
Or, at one point we were holed up in a keep waiting for Destruction and people started getting antsy and saying "they were bored", etc.
In Lineage 2 you would stick around regardless because at any time (within the 2 hour time period) the enemy could show up and attack. But in Warhammer, once the deed was done, or once it was decided that more effort would be needed, people just wanted to move on to the next thing.
That is really what I think the issue is in Warhammer. No ownsership. No reason to have a siege other than to take it and get points.
Now, I'm not dissing the whole points thing. But if that is the only reason why one would want to take it and if it is easily gotten back later, then players will eventually get tired.
Because what I'm seeing is just a constant moving from one Battlefield objective or Keep to another with never a thought that this stuff should never fall into enemy hands.
Perhaps less opportunity to siege (meaning that groups keep the objectives longer) and more reason to actually have them, might be the fix.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I blame the players. When WAR was still in it's beta, all you heard was good things about the game because players were going straight to the RvR lakes and having at it, just for fun. Then the game is officially released, and all people want is item rewards. They take the easiest, fastest way to get max level and get item rewards then complain that the game is boring. Item rewards = Item dependency. There is already a game that revolves around this treadmill.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
EXACTLY!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo