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Am I the only one who hates quest grinding? (rant inside)
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Well, old school and new school mmo players will always argue, but most of us like the same things ironically.
XP Grind and Downtime: Aint all that fun. Old school players survived it by being able to camp spots and spend most of the time casually chatting while grinding XP. Downtime was nearly essentially for chatting. These days it's quest grinding and super regen all the time so there's no down time and no chance to chat with those you play with.
Death Penalty: It sucks. Yes. Period. EVERYONE agrees. Difference is new school doesnt want to deal with it at all. Old school sees it as a reason to think about what you do. These new games out, the whole group can wipe and all that matters is that xp was slowed down. Old school, xp was lost and recovery time took a long time sometimes, even having to hire corpse summoners and such. This also meant altruism was a factor, you REALLY loved that Paladin that saved you with LoH but died themselves because of it, or that warrior tat took all the agro so everyone else can run while he died. The doesnt exist anymore.
Quests in General: Just poorly done. Most games that do have the longer drawn out quests that have better rewards, are too long given how fast xp is earned. I've never got a quest completion in these newer games that resulted in anything I'd use, XP was just gained too fast. New School dont mind this. They want to be max lvl ASAP so they can raid. To them, that's where the game is, raiding. The leveling system is just a drawn out tutorial. Old school players felt the leveling was the first HALF of the game and the raids were the second half.
I want games out there to suit all of us. Some of us more old school types want a NEW game to entertain us that has some of the stuff we've grown to love. I want those that want quest grind to have their game for it. I want those that want stronger death penalties, to have a game for it.
I'm not knocking any of your reasons and some of them I feel the exact same way about. Some of the aspects you list look a little better due to nostalgia, but everquest was fun in its day for me. Nothing wrong with liking to grind mobs, low amounts of quests, grouping, community and so on even if that is what someone still enjoys today.
Most of EQs design philosophy was to punish players for making mistakes and stretching out subscription length by increasing time sinks. Much of the character advancement was through meaningless grinding. Remember hell levels? Those were nothing but a meaningless time sink. The only objective most of the content was either to move an experience bar which is pretty much the definition of grind.
I understand that the basic building blocks of mmos are to keep players occupied, but many other games have some entertainment value into progression that doesn't revolve around aimless killing of anything that moves. Some people enjoy a little more purpose than standing around killing respawns in the same spot for hours on end. I've done the whole advancement in everquest and never have I felt that gaining experience in that game was harder than any other game. It just took longer.
There were just as many idiots in everquest as there are in any other game. Everquest just has more people that are willing to play 38 hours a day.
Death wasn't scary in eq, it was just annoying.
Totally agree with the OP, but more than the quest grind the problem i think is the solo quest grind, i mean if your are a dev. and design the game this way:
- solo mobs 90%
- group mobs 8%
- raid mobs 2%
- solo quests 90%
- group quests 8%
- raid quests 2%
then you finally have all but a MMO and sadly that we mostly have nowdays, the interaction between players is almost zero and you left the game in 3 months max.
One thing i miss most from old MMO's like EQ is the gray line between a group mob and a solo mob, in fact all the mobs there were groupable, but at the same time all of them were soloable with the rigth class or gear.
Agreed. And given how group oriented EQ1 was, it made groups practically always looking for new members, so usually grouping up with people wasnt a problem. I totally do not mind games that nearly require grouping, so long as finding such said groups is easy enough.
Back in Kunark of EQ1, you'd walk into KC and find 7 to 8 groups there, if all were full, you'd request the next spot in one, and either sit and chat with people or even help out a group you wanted in, and within a few minutes normally had a group.
These days, games like EQ2, you ask someone at lvl 45 to group up and they laugh at you cuz it's expected you solo at that lvl.
I'm not sure I do agree with the op. I will also propose that you guys are doing this to yourself.
I've played a bit of WoW and more than a bit of LOTRO. And though I have done quests in both I have also levelled quite a bit doing the regular exploring and just fighting off of mobs.
My character in WoW wasn't very high (somewhere in teh 30's) but most of that was not done with quests.
At all.
In LOTRO, though I will take a quest to get 10 of whatever, I usually stay in the area and go exploring.
I think it's the way you guys have created your play style. It seems to me that I see more people taking a certain amount of quests, running to the place, doing them, running back and then rinse repeat.
This is amazing to me. Why would anyone play that way.
Just take a few quests, do them, explore, and eventually com back and turn them in. As a matter of fact the kill quests are some of the best quests to get if you are not adverse to grind as you can kill the 10 or 20 of whatever and just stay in the area..
Or don't take quests at all. I've gotten a huge amount of xp in LOTRO just exploring goblin town or Moria.
So if you don't like it perhaps you guys should shift your paradigm and change your play stylel?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The issue is with the game design in and of itself. When the games make it so that leveling is nothing more than a meaningless, pointless time sink, then most people will simply do whatever they can to get to max level and get to the "real game" as fast as possible. If running boring quest after boring quest is the fastest way to level, then a lot of people just put up with it to get to the endgame. It's really a terrible design.
The other issue is a lot of the people that like grinding only like it because you can do it in a group and socialize. In WoW, you get penalized for grouping, so that slows you down.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Agree with your observations, although I will stress, group play in EQ1 makes group play especially Pug play the 1 thing about quest and group quest oriented games I really really hate. I want to PK most of the PuGs I tried since EQ1. Its absolutely horrid. I want to morph them into lvl 60 players, throw them into ssra and watch them learn consequences for playing like idiots.... anyway, the skill of the average gamer in mainstream mmo's today has seriously turned me on to korean grinders, that allow for self grinding zen. The biggest threat to any mmo enjoyment for me at this stage are the other players. Except for the game I raid in, where I only log in to raid, with the same people every week.... but I digress.
I think a HUGE part of that is the game design. PUG's in a solo friendly game are going to suck because there's no consequences for being an A-hole.
I don't need you, and if no one wants to group with me because I"m an A-hole, then I can just solo.
In EQ1, if you are constantly an A hole, then you don't make much progress solo, and everyone will be happy to tell people you are a huge A hole and they shouldn't group with you. Therefore there's an incentive to actually act like a decent person in groups.
This isn't going to change with solo friendly games. As long as you have solo games, grouping will suck.
This is just one more reason why it is retarded to say "You can group if you WANT to, so it's a grouping game!" Uh, no, it's a solo game if you don't need to group to get ahead.
WTH does it have to be the casuals player's fault? I imagine casual and hardcore a like cried about aimless killing. Stop beating your chest like some knuckle dragger with a superiority complex.
Developers need to bring back randon loot tables so just aimless killing could have decent rewards like quests.
I understand you point and I agree with you but at the sametime you are gimping yourself due to your playstyle. I do not want to gimp myself due to my playstyle so I conform to the playstyle that the game is designed for.
My playstyle is grouping with people and going out and exploring and getting into trouble. I cannot do that in today's MMOs for a couple of resons.
1. Groups - nobody groups just to group, they group to finish a quest then the group breaks up.
2. You can no longer get yourself into trouble because death means nothing. I remember times in EQ after a close call being mentally tired. I can no longer get that felling.
Don't get me wrong EQ was not perfect but it was closer then the games we have now. I had a rule in EQ, if I died 3 times in one session, I was done for the day. EQ was not all fun and games, it had its moments that sucked, Hell levels with 2 different charaters (Warrior then Necromancer). Dieing to someone elses train. Death sucked but it was worth it to me because it forced me to be a better player.
Death - Seems like most people don't want death to mean anything, maybe I am a minority here but having a harsh death penalty makes players better because it forces them to learn to play there charater better to avoid dieing.
I have gone for months without dieing in EQ on my Necromancer due to learning on my Warrior that die sucks and I learned to do everything in my power not to die. Longest run was 3 full months of no deaths on my necromancer even on raids. It was just another thing to be proud of while playing EQ. Everything in felt earned in EQ, you earned your level, your gear, your spells, your epic, your raid status (flags, keys, ect).
Sooner or Later
I understand you point and I agree with you but at the sametime you are gimping yourself due to your playstyle. I do not want to gimp myself due to my playstyle so I conform to the playstyle that the game is designed for.
My playstyle is grouping with people and going out and exploring and getting into trouble. I cannot do that in today's MMOs for a couple of resons.
1. Groups - nobody groups just to group, they group to finish a quest then the group breaks up.
2. You can no longer get yourself into trouble because death means nothing. I remember times in EQ after a close call being mentally tired. I can no longer get that felling.
I don't really think I am gimping myself. I level relatively quickly (but not hard core top of the level range in a week "quickly" as I have other things to do in my life) and have most of the top end gear that one can have (in LOTRO ).
I would say, if anything, if I played more hardcore, I would level as quickly if not faster as killing 12 or so mobs in an area can add up to the total of the quest xp itself.
I would also say that the time a player spends running back to turn in a quest can be spent "grinding" (because in the end that is what we are talking about) in the area and getting more xp for my trouble. I had heard that getting from lvl 59 to 60 in LOTRO was a grind and by taking a few of their quests and just exploring around the small area in Lothlorien (before the larger section was released) I got halfway there the same night I dinged 59! Just by fighting my way through things.
I will say that you are correct in point "1". However, I have seen people shout for groups to essentially explore goblin town. No reason why some like minded players couldn't do that. Same with Moria, it can be done. But you are correct that because players have put themselves into this "get quest, "don't" read quest text (which I always do) kill x of y and return.
Which I also think is another problem. Players don't read the quest text. When I do a quest to kill 10 tigers I try to imagine the whole reason why I'm doing it and invest in that reason. It's the closest to actual role play that I will do but it does help with actual immersion.
Your second point has nothing really to do with the idea of quest grinding but is just a point of discussion in and of itself. I will comment that I prefer xp loss to the WoW way as waiting around for a debuff or running back to get my corpse gets tiring. I've noticed that I will log out sooner on death in WoW or LOTRO than a more hardcore game like Lineage 2 because I think the death penalty is tedious. So it's pretty subjective.
However, I will mention that I don't require a death penalty as, to me, being defeated in any game is penalty enough for me.
I will add that there is indeed a lack of danger in todays games. Drives me nuts. At the start of Lineage 2, in the dark elf area, there was this foggy swamp (which NC has since made less foggy and less forboding). In this swamp there was a walking demon tree which was much higher than the area it was in. The reason it was here was because it was a quest mob for higher lvl dark elf mages.
In any case, people would form groups up to try to take this thing or else do whatever it took to not get its aggro. Unfortunately they changed it to a special mob that doesn't give xp if you kill it and and it doesn't aggro anymore.
This is the biggest sin of modern games in my opinion. Turbine is guilty and even NC with many changes in Lineage 2. Game companies won't allow players to fail. I don't care about the penalty as I mentioned but I do want the chance to fail.
But they have made things so easy that it's a no brainer. I was even thinking that myself the other night. I can go through LOTRO and 2 to 1 not fail or die at all. It's somewhat rare to do. That to me is the bigger issue.
Top that off (and I know I'm going to offend someone with this statement but it's how I feel) with players not wanting to go into Moria because it's depressing or not wanting to get lost in the Great Forest so Turbine made it easier to get around and less dangerous.
So after a while it's a bit of "meh" because I know that I'm invincible and I won't get lost and I won't fail. So why play?
There is a reason to me that games like Vanguard are a bit of fresh air.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I'm sure it's been said in this thread, but why do people feel they have to do everything a game offers. You do have the freedom, to choose which if any quests you want to do. You can just run around killing creatures all day if you want to.
I constantly hear people say, I hate that they added this quest or this task to the game, well no one is ever forcing you to do them. So if you hate one of the quests don't do it, I know shocking concept for someone wanting freedom.
I've been playing one game where people complained that several kill tasks were added in a few updates, and how much they hate doing kill tasks. Funny thing was they never had to do them, they could completly ignore them. The tasks also didn't give any special rewards, just experience points. But a couple people felt the need to whine about how the devs were killing the game by adding kill tasks that they didn't even have to do.
I'm sure it's been said in this thread, but why do people feel they have to do everything a game offers. You do have the freedom, to choose which if any quests you want to do. You can just run around killing creatures all day if you want to.
I constantly hear people say, I hate that they added this quest or this task to the game, well no one is ever forcing you to do them. So if you hate one of the quests don't do it, I know shocking concept for someone wanting freedom.
I've been playing one game where people complained that several kill tasks were added in a few updates, and how much they hate doing kill tasks. Funny thing was they never had to do them, they could completly ignore them. The tasks also didn't give any special rewards, just experience points. But a couple people felt the need to whine about how the devs were killing the game by adding kill tasks that they didn't even have to do.
These quest driven games make it so that you have to do the quests to be able to earn the full richness of rewards. You have to give up a lot if you don't want to play-by-number. That's not freedom.
Once upon a time....
I'm sure it's been said in this thread, but why do people feel they have to do everything a game offers. You do have the freedom, to choose which if any quests you want to do. You can just run around killing creatures all day if you want to.
I constantly hear people say, I hate that they added this quest or this task to the game, well no one is ever forcing you to do them. So if you hate one of the quests don't do it, I know shocking concept for someone wanting freedom.
I've been playing one game where people complained that several kill tasks were added in a few updates, and how much they hate doing kill tasks. Funny thing was they never had to do them, they could completly ignore them. The tasks also didn't give any special rewards, just experience points. But a couple people felt the need to whine about how the devs were killing the game by adding kill tasks that they didn't even have to do.
These quest driven games make it so that you have to do the quests to be able to earn the full richness of rewards. You have to give up a lot if you don't want to play-by-number. That's not freedom.
Again, you don't have to do the quests or at the very least, you might have to do a "few" if there is a specific thing you want.
For instance, in LOTRO (very quest based) I haven't done most of the book quests as they are group based and have missed quite a few quests in certain areas, even though I have been in those areas quite a bit. Still, I used whatever drops that I would get from the quests that I did do and crafted gear.
At top levels I entered the raids where you could get the radiance coins and did those, but have yet to really do any of the quests that are attached to those raids.
If a person knows of and wants a particular item that can be gotten from a quest then do that quest. AFter all, is it any different than saying "hey, mob x drops the staff of sundering", there is a % chance to get it so let's camp them.
One could then say "oh, the only way to get the staff of sundering is to camp mob x and that's not freedom".
6 of 1 and a half dozen of the other.
Now, granted, these games are based off of the idea that players will do quests as opposed to camping an area so one might be hard pressed to always find group areas to grind in. At least, areas that will support a group. I can think of some in LOTRO though, Great Barrows, Urugard, (well that whole northern angmar area in fact!) Moria, Goblin Town, there are camps north of Bree for Orcs and Goblins.
It's very doable.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I agree the OP said it well, i can't stand quest driven mmos any longer (it was boring after doing it 1 time anti-timesink ftl)...i want my freedom to find stuff out for myself, i don't mind quests just do it right make them few, hard to find (no ! ? over heads ffs), no XP from quests, and the biggest hate is the wall of text in EVERY quest talk about a dead npcs eh.
I'll be going back to FFXI very soon see what i have missed the last 3 years, i should have not left in the first place- on the side i'm playing a UO pre-aos freeshard fun times.
Power to the hardcores without us their would have not been mmogs in the first place! roll that up and smoke it heh :P
I'm sure it's been said in this thread, but why do people feel they have to do everything a game offers. You do have the freedom, to choose which if any quests you want to do. You can just run around killing creatures all day if you want to.
Ok, but as the guy who posted just after you already said, you'll be missing out on a lot of stuff if you don't do the quests. And face it, those games are designed in a way so that you're supposed to do the quests and if you don't they pretty much suck anyway.
In WoW or Lotro I could have just gone out and killed mobs but I would have been doing it alone. I wouldn't have been getting the equipment upgrades I would get if I did the quests. The experience would have been slower. And I would have missed out on some class skills in WoW (not sure about Lotro). Also, the mobs are so weak and there is no threat of a real death penalty that, frankly, it isn't much of a thrill to fight them.
Those games were designed for quest grinding and if you try to play them any other way they are actually worse than if you just give in and play them they way they were intended to be played.
And I have to repeat this part: If I had just gone out exploring and killing stuff I would have been doing it alone. Because even though I could decide to do that I'm not going to convince anyone else to do it with me. What am I supposed to do? Stand there in the game and as people zip by, running to and fro on their quests, try to flag them down and get them to stop questing and hang out with me?
Some guy comes running by and I say, "WAIT! Will you be my friend?" Nope he's gone.
Oh, here comes another, "Hey, stop! I want to hang out with..." oh he's gone too.
In EQ people just naturally came together. In games like WoW or Lotro trying to get someone to do something with you makes you feel like one of those people on the street handing out religious pamphlets. Everyone just walks on by.
In my recent trial in Lotro I had myself flagged as LFF (looking for fellowship) the entire time to no avail. I asked in area wide OOC several times if anyone would like to group...for anything...your choice. I never got a response.
So yeah, you could ignore the quests in those games but you'll be gimping yourself if you do and it really doesn't make it any more fun anyway because they weren't designed to be played any other way.
I'm sure it's been said in this thread, but why do people feel they have to do everything a game offers. You do have the freedom, to choose which if any quests you want to do. You can just run around killing creatures all day if you want to.
Ok, but as the guy who posted just after you already said, you'll be missing out on a lot of stuff if you don't do the quests. And face it, those games are designed in a way so that you're supposed to do the quests and if you don't they pretty much suck anyway.
In WoW or Lotro I could have just gone out and killed mobs but I would have been doing it alone. I wouldn't have been getting the equipment upgrades I would get if I did the quests. The experience would have been slower. And I would have missed out on some class skills in WoW (not sure about Lotro). Also, the mobs are so weak and there is no threat of a real death penalty that, frankly, it isn't much of a thrill to fight them.
Those games were designed for quest grinding and if you try to play them any other way they are actually worse than if you just give in and play them they way they were intended to be played.
And I have to repeat this part: If I had just gone out exploring and killing stuff I would have been doing it alone. Because even though I could decide to do that I'm not going to convince anyone else to do it with me. What am I supposed to do? Stand there in the game and as people zip by, running to and fro on their quests, try to flag them down and get them to stop questing and hang out with me?
Some guy comes running by and I say, "WAIT! Will you be my friend?" Nope he's gone.
Oh, here comes another, "Hey, stop! I want to hang out with..." oh he's gone too.
In EQ people just naturally came together. In games like WoW or Lotro trying to get someone to do something with you makes you feel like one of those people on the street handing out religious pamphlets. Everyone just walks on by.
In my recent trial in Lotro I had myself flagged as LFF (looking for fellowship) the entire time to no avail. I asked in area wide OOC several times if anyone would like to group...for anything...your choice. I never got a response.
So yeah, you could ignore the quests in those games but you'll be gimping yourself if you do and it really doesn't make it any more fun anyway because they weren't designed to be played any other way.
Well, wait a minute. Is this about doing quests or is this about getting groups and making friends? Because it seems that you are making that the issue? If that is the case then this is a different discussion under the guise of questing is not fun.
I will also say that grinding mobs is not less xp. I thougth it was too and when the game first launched I saw so many people trying to grind mobs. My thought was "<insert a roll eyes here> this is a quest game you don't have to grind mobs".
But then I started seeing that the xp that the mobs were giving was significant enough to easily level up on. I have done a good deal of my levels with grinding xp as that is what I'm used to from Lineage 2. I do quests, but I stay around and grind a bit after I fulfill the quest objective.
But as you mentioned, you aren't going to convince people to do that with you.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I'd also like to see a game where quests gave gear, and faction, and mobs were the sole source of xp.
So....don't have time for a group?? Do some solo quests for some new gear and for the story.
And let's continue this thought for a sec; Raids. How about this....guild heads off to the raid, and lower level toons in groups flagged as "raid groups" temporarily recieve a level boost....sort of like "mentoring" in some other games...this way the entire guild can participate, and there is no rush to level.
But wait...how about this: raid loot is NOT personal gear...but something the entire guild needs...like crafting blueprints, rare crafting componants, unlocks for more raids (with story advancement) and maybe componants for their city / keep. Imagine, you approach a guild city, and there on the walls is the giant stuffed heads of the dragons, trolls, demons, etc that the guild has collected through it's raids, telling straight off that this is one BAD ASS guild. Fountains, buildings that offer crafting bonuses, all acquired through guild activities.
Now, suddenly we have a game worth playing, that doesn't bore us to tears, or force us to speed-level though the game for the "endgame" content.
I'm sure it's been said in this thread, but why do people feel they have to do everything a game offers. You do have the freedom, to choose which if any quests you want to do. You can just run around killing creatures all day if you want to.
Ok, but as the guy who posted just after you already said, you'll be missing out on a lot of stuff if you don't do the quests. And face it, those games are designed in a way so that you're supposed to do the quests and if you don't they pretty much suck anyway.
In WoW or Lotro I could have just gone out and killed mobs but I would have been doing it alone. I wouldn't have been getting the equipment upgrades I would get if I did the quests. The experience would have been slower. And I would have missed out on some class skills in WoW (not sure about Lotro). Also, the mobs are so weak and there is no threat of a real death penalty that, frankly, it isn't much of a thrill to fight them.
Those games were designed for quest grinding and if you try to play them any other way they are actually worse than if you just give in and play them they way they were intended to be played.
And I have to repeat this part: If I had just gone out exploring and killing stuff I would have been doing it alone. Because even though I could decide to do that I'm not going to convince anyone else to do it with me. What am I supposed to do? Stand there in the game and as people zip by, running to and fro on their quests, try to flag them down and get them to stop questing and hang out with me?
Some guy comes running by and I say, "WAIT! Will you be my friend?" Nope he's gone.
Oh, here comes another, "Hey, stop! I want to hang out with..." oh he's gone too.
In EQ people just naturally came together. In games like WoW or Lotro trying to get someone to do something with you makes you feel like one of those people on the street handing out religious pamphlets. Everyone just walks on by.
In my recent trial in Lotro I had myself flagged as LFF (looking for fellowship) the entire time to no avail. I asked in area wide OOC several times if anyone would like to group...for anything...your choice. I never got a response.
So yeah, you could ignore the quests in those games but you'll be gimping yourself if you do and it really doesn't make it any more fun anyway because they weren't designed to be played any other way.
Well, wait a minute. Is this about doing quests or is this about getting groups and making friends? Because it seems that you are making that the issue? If that is the case then this is a different discussion under the guise of questing is not fun.
I will also say that grinding mobs is not less xp. I thougth it was too and when the game first launched I saw so many people trying to grind mobs. My thought was "<insert a roll eyes here> this is a quest game you don't have to grind mobs".
But then I started seeing that the xp that the mobs were giving was significant enough to easily level up on. I have done a good deal of my levels with grinding xp as that is what I'm used to from Lineage 2. I do quests, but I stay around and grind a bit after I fulfill the quest objective.
But as you mentioned, you aren't going to convince people to do that with you.
I understand your point and I see you are right, I could choose to skip the quests and just play the way I want but what you are missing is that we want to group while exp grinding. Sure soloing is fun and I used to solo in EQ1 with necromancer when I did not feel like grouping but even then I would group up lower level guilds and let them sponge off my solo exp because that is just how I am.
I want to go out and explorer areas and kill mobs with other people, that is the main reason I play MMOs, to meet new people though out the world. The internet made the whole world smaller and I love the fact I get to meet people from different parts of the world.
Like I said, I do understand your point and yes I agree, we could just grind our way to max level without doing quests but these new games are designed and balanced around doing the quests which means you are going to gimp yourself if you do not do some of these quests. Also the quest give a ton more exp then just grinding on mobs because you get both the exp for killing the mobs and then turning in the quests for more exp. I am guessing most people do the quest like I do and finish all the quest in the quest log before heading back to turn them in.
Sooner or Later
Umm this please.... seriously we need a developer to read this post and make a game designed around it.
Sooner or Later
I would like this system as long as the mob kill XP was obtained as part of doing other tasks (ie questing, framing profession mats) rather then a straight on mob camping grind. Otherwise I do not see the point in playing a game that blocks of content I like to do with content I despise to do.
Personally I would do away with XP altogether and base character progression solely on achievements.
eg.
-You killed 100 boars, you get one skill point but to get another you have to now kill another 200 boars and then 500 boars for a third one.
-alternatly you could just complet the "Evil Overlord of the Grey Castle" chain of quests to get yoru skill point but would have to do the harder "Even More Evil Overlord of the Black Castle" quest chain
-alternatively you could craft a "Very Sharp Sword of Cutting" using your blacksmithing profession for a skill point but need to figure out how to make a 'Really, Really Sharp Sword of Slicing" for the second one
By not tying the progression to small chunks of XP you create more freedom for players to pick the path to advance that suits their preferences.
Umm this please.... seriously we need a developer to read this post and make a game designed around it.
"where mobs are the sole source of xp" So you want a game where people macro up through levels and then quest for gear? Any game where good xp comes from mob kills people then setup a macro to kill the mobs and come back in a couple days when they've flown through all the levels.
Umm this please.... seriously we need a developer to read this post and make a game designed around it.
"where mobs are the sole source of xp" So you want a game where people macro up through levels and then quest for gear? Any game where good xp comes from mob kills people then setup a macro to kill the mobs and come back in a couple days when they've flown through all the levels.
Really?? Odd....I've never seen this problem in..say, Anarchy Online, for example.
I'm pretty sure afk macroing could be taken care of with a little effort.
The people who solo MMORPGs ARE ridiculous. You can say all you want "I want to be part of a world where other people exist," but why do you want to? You're not really interacting with them -- seeing them pass by you every minute or so doesn't make the game any more fun, does it? It's not like people can actually affect the game world, so if you aren't grouping with people, there's really no need to be playing it.
It's like playing capture the flag where NO ONE plays defense. Sure, you can say, "Well I like capture the flag and it's fun to be playing with other people." But you're NOT playing with them. Just because someone is around doesn't mean you're playing with them. If all you do is play offense, and all the other people do is play offense, you aren't really playing because there isn't any strategy and there isn't any point.
That's what soloing an MMO is like. If I wanted to go do a ton of solo quests, I'd play an offline rpg that would probably have a much better battle system and a much better story. MMOs are meant to be played with people. Sure, not all the time. But definitely MOST of the time.
I would like this system as long as the mob kill XP was obtained as part of doing other tasks (ie questing, framing profession mats) rather then a straight on mob camping grind. Otherwise I do not see the point in playing a game that blocks of content I like to do with content I despise to do.
Personally I would do away with XP altogether and base character progression solely on achievements.
eg.
-You killed 100 boars, you get one skill point but to get another you have to now kill another 200 boars and then 500 boars for a third one.
-alternatly you could just complet the "Evil Overlord of the Grey Castle" chain of quests to get yoru skill point but would have to do the harder "Even More Evil Overlord of the Black Castle" quest chain
-alternatively you could craft a "Very Sharp Sword of Cutting" using your blacksmithing profession for a skill point but need to figure out how to make a 'Really, Really Sharp Sword of Slicing" for the second one
By not tying the progression to small chunks of XP you create more freedom for players to pick the path to advance that suits their preferences.
So what the hell!? you want more longer quest driven grinds and do away with XP on top of that- do them again on a even harder level? that does not sound fun at all to me, i'll kill what i want when i want...no kill count timers! >_< "ok got my kill count full! kthxbye"
wow, I'm simply amazed. Let's look at this shall we.
First of all you are basically saying "I see things in one way therefore everyone automatically see it my way". I would never make such an assessment.
I would say in my experience, "yes" seeing a living world and seeing people doing things does make the game more fun. From the horse's mouth. It makes it more fun. There is a palpable difference in the world of say, a game like Oblivion, when compared to an mmo with regards to how the populace moves about and conducts its business. as far as your statement "if you aren't affecting the game world then there is no reason to play it", again, this is your opinion. But it's not fact. If I want to log in and stand in a corner and do nothing but watch people pass AND pay 15.00 per month for the privilege to do so then I will.
And that is the crux of the matter. People ARE playing mmo's and are enjoying them, therefore they are finding something of substance to their experience.
Your second example is not applicable. You are boiling down the mmo experience to just the tasks that one does. But since players are playing solo, there is obviously something that they are getting out of it. It's probably not just the tasks but being among a vibrant and huge world. Whether or not one can affect the game world is really up to the player itself. Yes, a game like Lineage 2 will have a greater connection to the player because of the game play (in my opinion) but it doesn't invalidate how another player perceives his/her experience in a game like WoW or LOTRO.
I do solo in mmo's and that's not what it's like. So this is obviously individual perception. In the end, players are playing and they are soloing and they are loving it. Short of the grouping police coming by and telling us how we should be playing, I think we will find our own fun. If it ceases to be fun then we will stop.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo