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Am I the only one who hates quest grinding? (rant inside)
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The vast majority of people want to solo when they want and group when they want. No solo game forces you to solo. You can group any time, play with your friends any time, go do a dungeon any time. However, you can't play alone in a game like old EQ or FFXI. So one game gives players a choice and one doesn't. Its the options people like.
Personally I'm with ya. I always prefer to play with freinds. If all I want to do is solo, theres no way I'm playing a MMO. The gameplay & story sucks for the most part compared to any decent RPG. However, I can't group up all the time. Sometimes I don't have the time to commit a few hours into playing with my guild or friends. I don't want to inconenience others when I have to go AFK every 10 or 15 minutes to take care of other things or talk to my wife for a few minutes. I still want to play though. If the only way to play a MMO is to hide away from the rest of the world for hours at a time, I just won't do it. Thats why only nerds or no-life losers played the original MMOs because you couldn't have a life and accomplish much of anything. You had to cata$$ and any vet MMO player knows exactly what that means;)
I've played WOW. A MMO can have soloing and grouping components that work perfectly fine together. I don't have to be forced into one style of play when I know I can have both.
wow, I'm simply amazed. Let's look at this shall we.
First of all you are basically saying "I see things in one way therefore everyone automatically see it my way". I would never make such an assessment.
I would say in my experience, "yes" seeing a living world and seeing people doing things does make the game more fun. From the horse's mouth. It makes it more fun. There is a palpable difference in the world of say, a game like Oblivion, when compared to an mmo with regards to how the populace moves about and conducts its business. as far as your statement "if you aren't affecting the game world then there is no reason to play it", again, this is your opinion. But it's not fact. If I want to log in and stand in a corner and do nothing but watch people pass AND pay 15.00 per month for the privilege to do so then I will.
And that is the crux of the matter. People ARE playing mmo's and are enjoying them, therefore they are finding something of substance to their experience.
Your second example is not applicable. You are boiling down the mmo experience to just the tasks that one does. But since players are playing solo, there is obviously something that they are getting out of it. It's probably not just the tasks but being among a vibrant and huge world. Whether or not one can affect the game world is really up to the player itself. Yes, a game like Lineage 2 will have a greater connection to the player because of the game play (in my opinion) but it doesn't invalidate how another player perceives his/her experience in a game like WoW or LOTRO.
I do solo in mmo's and that's not what it's like. So this is obviously individual perception. In the end, players are playing and they are soloing and they are loving it. Short of the grouping police coming by and telling us how we should be playing, I think we will find our own fun. If it ceases to be fun then we will stop.
Most of what he says is true and i agree with him, i play MMOG's because it's a grping game, (well not anymore says the devs) now days it's a solo rpg with online elements mass quest grinds, speed leveling, it's no longer about the world/meeting people, it's about geting to "end game" and finding a guild and only talk and do stuff with that guild alone.
MMORPG - MQDORPG we need a fine line from the two, side note i used to love PuGs but now it's the most hated thing says players of today.
I disagree 100% with your first sentence, for that matter your whole post.
XP grinding was way more fun then quest grinding for many reason but mainly because i get to group and socialize with people.
I play Video games because I enjoy problem solving and the newer MMos ruin that for me because everything is solved for you, you just have to go grab the pieces. I want to have to figure out the quest my self. Ever done an EQ quest?
EQ quest? Haha. Half the "quest" was getting the quest in EQ
What trouble
Help
Quest
I will help
Hunt
Kill
Maim
What pixies
Pixie parts
Pixie heads
Pixie tits
And I've always found grinding is more effective solo in 95% of MMMORPGs, so I'm not sure what you mean by grinding in a group. I guess if you really sucked at a game and relied upon others to get things done,, I could see a group being more effective than soloing.There are some classes where grouping is more ideal but those tend to be the exception than the rule.
Nothing stops you from doing quests in a group. In fact, that's what me and a two others did and ended up the first three level 60s on our server in WoW, because we could run even the more difficult quests without issue. Instead of skipping the hard quests, we did them and got better loot/exp and leveled faster because of it. And by the time we hit 60 we had more experience with all the instances, better gear, and of course were first. The only problem, of course, is finding other people who can continually be there with you. But if that's your cup of tea, then don't spit it out all over and complain your tea tasts like tea.
As per my original post it's about both. The two issues are intertwined because the type of gameplay involved in quest grinding is not only not conducive to grouping it makes grouping nearly impossible. Reread my OP if you want my thoughts on why quest grinding kills grouping.
Also, I don't necessarily have anything against quests. But being buried under a mountain of quests which are really just odd jobs and minor tasks I do hate. And yes, of course people are right when they say that you don't absolutely have to do the quests but as I have said already those games really aren't designed to be played any other way so if you don't do the quests it isn't going to improve that type of game any. In that case you're just trying to make it into something it's not which is rather hopeless.
Sure if someone does not want to interact at all with other players in an MMORPG then they probably should play single player games.
However, grouping to kill things is a small part of the the social interaction in a MMORPG. Chatting with people, trading, building player cities or PvP are big parts of the social interaction in an MMORPG. I never understand people who think that combat is the only form of content in a MMORPs. I was part of a 100+ person WoW guild that did a lot of stuff together but whose members generally prefered to level solo.
"Rogue insert-levelhere, looking for a group for anything."
And dead silence. Five hours of repeating later, still no result. Don't try to tell me, you can easily group in a sologrinder. The only one, where it was true, was CoH/V. The. Only. One. Gee, sure is fun paying 15 dollars a month for a game, I only ever group with my girlfriend... Who plays one-two times a week.
Guilds don;t help either. Because everyone is already at cap and grinding gear. Even on RP servers. THAT's the problem with solo-oriented games. And it's a direct child of questgrinding.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
wow, I'm simply amazed. Let's look at this shall we.
First of all you are basically saying "I see things in one way therefore everyone automatically see it my way". I would never make such an assessment.
I would say in my experience, "yes" seeing a living world and seeing people doing things does make the game more fun. From the horse's mouth. It makes it more fun. There is a palpable difference in the world of say, a game like Oblivion, when compared to an mmo with regards to how the populace moves about and conducts its business. as far as your statement "if you aren't affecting the game world then there is no reason to play it", again, this is your opinion. But it's not fact. If I want to log in and stand in a corner and do nothing but watch people pass AND pay 15.00 per month for the privilege to do so then I will.
And that is the crux of the matter. People ARE playing mmo's and are enjoying them, therefore they are finding something of substance to their experience.
Your second example is not applicable. You are boiling down the mmo experience to just the tasks that one does. But since players are playing solo, there is obviously something that they are getting out of it. It's probably not just the tasks but being among a vibrant and huge world. Whether or not one can affect the game world is really up to the player itself. Yes, a game like Lineage 2 will have a greater connection to the player because of the game play (in my opinion) but it doesn't invalidate how another player perceives his/her experience in a game like WoW or LOTRO.
I do solo in mmo's and that's not what it's like. So this is obviously individual perception. In the end, players are playing and they are soloing and they are loving it. Short of the grouping police coming by and telling us how we should be playing, I think we will find our own fun. If it ceases to be fun then we will stop.
Most of what he says is true and i agree with him, i play MMOG's because it's a grping game, (well not anymore says the devs) now days it's a solo rpg with online elements mass quest grinds, speed leveling, it's no longer about the world/meeting people, it's about geting to "end game" and finding a guild and only talk and do stuff with that guild alone.
MMORPG - MQDORPG we need a fine line from the two, side note i used to love PuGs but now it's the most hated thing says players of today.
I don't see it as being true at all. But I think that's because there is a notable difference between early mmo players and current mmo players.
The problem seems to be that we are all arguing apples and oranges.
Not a lot of people played early mmo's. At least if you were to compare them to the amount of people today. And there were real reasons why people didn't play. besides the geek stigma, the amount of time that one had to put in these games in order to accomplish things was quite sizable. The earlier games were not everyone's cup of tea.
However, along comes WoW who looks at some of the things that people didn't like, they streamline it and suddenly it lowers the bar for players who aren't willing to look for hours for groups or spend hours upon hours just to have fun.
Also, I have to say, that there are so many sub issues with some of these complaints.
for intance, it seems that it's not really about questing but more about getting groups, keeping groups and being social. Something that quests might inhibit as people oftentimes drop the group after the quest is done.
Then, it's not just about getting groups but being social. wow. Here's the deal. I'll group with anyone of you but I DON"T want to be social.
I don't play these games to hang out and shoot the shit. I want to do the quest or grind or what have you. But I"m not interested in talking for talking's sake. I have real life friends to do that with.
And THAT is the real issue here. Some people are playing to play and to experience the game's content. But others are using these games as social outlets. I have no problem with that but that's not why I play. This is not to say I don't want to be social. But I don't want to talk and talk and talk about stuff. I want to play.
I can guarantee you that if we were to group and people were to start discussing things I'd have to turn off the group chat. Talk about ruining immersion.
Which then brings up the fact that perhaps that is why many solo. Because there is a bit of immersion breaking when you have some guy talking about sports, another about how x game is failing, another about his school, etc. I wouldn't sign up for that and I know a lot of people who also wouldn't.
However, group up to explore a dungeon or do quests or even grind and I'm in. But I don't want to shoot the shit (as I mentioned earlier).
What we seem to have here are completely different reasons to play these games. And that is what is causing the rift. Because some players still trying to assert their social play style and others are desiring a more focused game play experience.
And that is probalby why questing "kills' groups. It's hard to be social and keep groups together when people are reading text or listening to voice over dialogue.
edit: here's a thought. If you could group up and didn't have to quest, but the grouping required complete concentration and effort so that all it was more intense, say, like a raid, therefore no socializing, would people still paly mmos. Basically, if it was just about he gameplay?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"Rogue insert-levelhere, looking for a group for anything."
And dead silence. Five hours of repeating later, still no result. Don't try to tell me, you can easily group in a sologrinder. The only one, where it was true, was CoH/V. The. Only. One. Gee, sure is fun paying 15 dollars a month for a game, I only ever group with my girlfriend... Who plays one-two times a week.
Guilds don;t help either. Because everyone is already at cap and grinding gear. Even on RP servers. THAT's the problem with solo-oriented games. And it's a direct child of questgrinding.
It might be possible if you start the game with a large pre-established guild that moved over from another game. But for most people that's not the case.
I disagree 100% with your first sentence, for that matter your whole post.
XP grinding was way more fun then quest grinding for many reason but mainly because i get to group and socialize with people.
I play Video games because I enjoy problem solving and the newer MMos ruin that for me because everything is solved for you, you just have to go grab the pieces. I want to have to figure out the quest my self. Ever done an EQ quest?
EQ quest? Haha. Half the "quest" was getting the quest in EQ
What trouble
Help
Quest
I will help
Hunt
Kill
Maim
What pixies
Pixie parts
Pixie heads
Pixie tits
And I've always found grinding is more effective solo in 95% of MMMORPGs, so I'm not sure what you mean by grinding in a group. I guess if you really sucked at a game and relied upon others to get things done,, I could see a group being more effective than soloing.There are some classes where grouping is more ideal but those tend to be the exception than the rule.
Nothing stops you from doing quests in a group. In fact, that's what me and a two others did and ended up the first three level 60s on our server in WoW, because we could run even the more difficult quests without issue. Instead of skipping the hard quests, we did them and got better loot/exp and leveled faster because of it. And by the time we hit 60 we had more experience with all the instances, better gear, and of course were first. The only problem, of course, is finding other people who can continually be there with you. But if that's your cup of tea, then don't spit it out all over and complain your tea tasts like tea.
Never played EQ have you. Don't say you have because you would know what a group grind is. Soloing EQ, sure you could do it and it was effective but exp grinding in a group was way faster then solo.
Sooner or Later
Yeah LoTRO really pushes the limit of questing threshold.......I kinda liked the game the first week but shortly thereafter, once you learn that mobs give almost no XP later, it feels like a chore.......Also later on the quests jus involve running further and further until you are numb from doing them....After I left LoTRO I didnt want to see another quest for a very long time....... Like this poster I was done with LoTRO in two months (and I had paid for 6 lol).
you would prefer no quests, and go back to random mob grinding?? How tedious!
OP must be an old school EQ player(verrant era). The funny thing is the game was called Everquest but questing had nothing to do with leveling. You leveled by getting a group and killing mobs in various places in the world. The quests had good story lines. They were fun but not required to level. They were not designed to level your toon. Mobs were tough and their difficulty was not hinted at by an elite sign next to their name. If you tried to solo an even considered mob in the 40s you better had played a necro,druid, or Bard. Some of the other casters could solo but not as effectively, grouping was were it was at. If you played a melee class good luck soloing.
Yeah I played that game OP and loved it. To bad SOE came along and screwed it up
Okay take a minute and think about how much time you spent in a group vs how much you soloed in WoW? Then tell me that grouping is the main path to max level in WoW.
Second, Quest grinding did not add options, it took away options. It took away the community, the socializing and the journey to max level. I know its hard to understand but hitting max level is not the point of an MMO. The problem is today, the game starts at max level, so everyone races to max level.
Quest grinding is the fastest way to hit max level in WoW any all the other WoW clones on the market. How is that not logical enough for you? Quest give tons of exp. I will bet you that a person that does the quest grind vs someone that did not quest would hit max level a month before the guy that did not quest with the same amount playtime.
EQ max level was a goal that you had, one of many other goals. Hitting max level in EQ was something to be proud of, something that others saw and gave you respect for. It was the journey to max level that made EQ so much for, well for myself and my freinds (including my 55 year old dad).
I am sick of hearing that EQ was not casual friendly, that is a bunch of horse shit, my dad played EQ with me and some of my friends, he has 8 different charaters and none are at max level yet he still loves EQ and talks about it to this day. (I am 26 fyi)
Sooner or Later
I agree. Those that like to solo think every game must allow them to solo to max level, and because you CAN group if you want to, even though it's pointless and no fun in a solo game, that this creates more options.
It doesn't. EITEHR you have a good grouping game, OR you have a good solo game. One ruins the other for those that prefer one over the other.
I can't solo and make XP and get loot as fast and as much as groups. OMG! It's ForCED GRouPinG! This game sucks!
TAke away the good grouping aspects of the game, and make it a solo piece of crap for me, because that's what I like. Now it's great for everyone, because you CAN group if you want to, even though it's a waste of time. See how thaty's great for EVERYONE?
Uh, no, it's just good for people that like solo games.
wow, I'm simply amazed. Let's look at this shall we.
First of all you are basically saying "I see things in one way therefore everyone automatically see it my way". I would never make such an assessment.
I would say in my experience, "yes" seeing a living world and seeing people doing things does make the game more fun. From the horse's mouth. It makes it more fun. There is a palpable difference in the world of say, a game like Oblivion, when compared to an mmo with regards to how the populace moves about and conducts its business. as far as your statement "if you aren't affecting the game world then there is no reason to play it", again, this is your opinion. But it's not fact. If I want to log in and stand in a corner and do nothing but watch people pass AND pay 15.00 per month for the privilege to do so then I will.
And that is the crux of the matter. People ARE playing mmo's and are enjoying them, therefore they are finding something of substance to their experience.
Your second example is not applicable. You are boiling down the mmo experience to just the tasks that one does. But since players are playing solo, there is obviously something that they are getting out of it. It's probably not just the tasks but being among a vibrant and huge world. Whether or not one can affect the game world is really up to the player itself. Yes, a game like Lineage 2 will have a greater connection to the player because of the game play (in my opinion) but it doesn't invalidate how another player perceives his/her experience in a game like WoW or LOTRO.
I do solo in mmo's and that's not what it's like. So this is obviously individual perception. In the end, players are playing and they are soloing and they are loving it. Short of the grouping police coming by and telling us how we should be playing, I think we will find our own fun. If it ceases to be fun then we will stop.
Most of what he says is true and i agree with him, i play MMOG's because it's a grping game, (well not anymore says the devs) now days it's a solo rpg with online elements mass quest grinds, speed leveling, it's no longer about the world/meeting people, it's about geting to "end game" and finding a guild and only talk and do stuff with that guild alone.
MMORPG - MQDORPG we need a fine line from the two, side note i used to love PuGs but now it's the most hated thing says players of today.
I don't see it as being true at all. But I think that's because there is a notable difference between early mmo players and current mmo players.
The problem seems to be that we are all arguing apples and oranges.
Not a lot of people played early mmo's. At least if you were to compare them to the amount of people today. And there were real reasons why people didn't play. besides the geek stigma, the amount of time that one had to put in these games in order to accomplish things was quite sizable. The earlier games were not everyone's cup of tea.
However, along comes WoW who looks at some of the things that people didn't like, they streamline it and suddenly it lowers the bar for players who aren't willing to look for hours for groups or spend hours upon hours just to have fun.
Also, I have to say, that there are so many sub issues with some of these complaints.
for intance, it seems that it's not really about questing but more about getting groups, keeping groups and being social. Something that quests might inhibit as people oftentimes drop the group after the quest is done.
Then, it's not just about getting groups but being social. wow. Here's the deal. I'll group with anyone of you but I DON"T want to be social.
I don't play these games to hang out and shoot the shit. I want to do the quest or grind or what have you. But I"m not interested in talking for talking's sake. I have real life friends to do that with.
And THAT is the real issue here. Some people are playing to play and to experience the game's content. But others are using these games as social outlets. I have no problem with that but that's not why I play. This is not to say I don't want to be social. But I don't want to talk and talk and talk about stuff. I want to play.
I can guarantee you that if we were to group and people were to start discussing things I'd have to turn off the group chat. Talk about ruining immersion.
Which then brings up the fact that perhaps that is why many solo. Because there is a bit of immersion breaking when you have some guy talking about sports, another about how x game is failing, another about his school, etc. I wouldn't sign up for that and I know a lot of people who also wouldn't.
However, group up to explore a dungeon or do quests or even grind and I'm in. But I don't want to shoot the shit (as I mentioned earlier).
What we seem to have here are completely different reasons to play these games. And that is what is causing the rift. Because some players still trying to assert their social play style and others are desiring a more focused game play experience.
And that is probalby why questing "kills' groups. It's hard to be social and keep groups together when people are reading text or listening to voice over dialogue.
edit: here's a thought. If you could group up and didn't have to quest, but the grouping required complete concentration and effort so that all it was more intense, say, like a raid, therefore no socializing, would people still paly mmos. Basically, if it was just about he gameplay?
Fair enough i can see your side of it too i'll make this quick, i never been a fan of world chat channels it's a big turn off when they talk about real life stuff
i'll keep world chat off as it's a tool for spamers and people tying to start a flame war of some kind.
I'm going to back out of this thread now as the sun is just coming out and i want to enjoy getting a tan
take care
Why is it tedious? Is it because it made you think and learn to play your charater instead of being able to do a million mindless pointless quests?
Sooner or Later
Why is it tedious? Is it because it made you think and learn to play your charater instead of being able to do a million mindless pointless quests?
Its' very, very, very, very tedious. If you do it solo. Questers are quite often solo players. They want to run around an MMORPG doing quests just like they were playing a solo RPG, only they get to wave at other players once in a while, which they think makes the game more fun.
Imagine mob grinding by yourself all the time. It would indeed be tedious.
Why is it tedious? Is it because it made you think and learn to play your charater instead of being able to do a million mindless pointless quests?
Its' very, very, very, very tedious. If you do it solo. Questers are quite often solo players. They want to run around an MMORPG doing quests just like they were playing a solo RPG, only they get to wave at other players once in a while, which they think makes the game more fun.
Imagine mob grinding by yourself all the time. It would indeed be tedious.
It was called "Diablo".
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
I hate quests. I despise quest-driven games, they bore me to death. The moment some NPC start spewing the crap about some really important conflict, to which conclusion i will mighty help if i bring back 10 wolve´s tails, it´s the moment i know i´ve thrown money out the window. I lasted 34 levels in WoW (rather proud of my patience there), 2 days in LotRo, 14 levels in WAR and countless other day-or-two-gigs in various games including AoC, EQ2, Vanguard and practically every other major release.
Conclusion: i fondly remember the days when i thought gameplay in DAoC was shallow, because it didn´t offer me the variety of things to do i was used to in UO. I hated the quests there, too, but in retrospect they were not nearly as bad as the now trendy WoW-style "diet-quests", where you don´t even have to read the damn text, infact, hardly anyone does, and those that do are people to be afraid of.
On the other hand, i hated XP-grind too, i lasted all of 7 (really, seven) levels in EQ (bought the box first day out, paid for 6 months, played for 2). Never managed to have fun sitting on the spot for hours and chatting, killing the same mobs over and over.
To be honest, the games i´ve had fun in were UO (first love, never forgotten), SWG and to some extent DAoC (played back before even the first expansion) and AO. Games where you REALLY could get lost, literally, and it was often fun beeing lost in them, too.
But i do trust the gaming industry will eventually recover from the WoW-bomb and get it´s bearings. After all, it wasn´t the first such bomb. I remember a time when half the people where playing EQ, the other half complained about how EQ ruined the industry...now both halves consider that time "the good old days". Let´s just hope we won´t be having to call present times the "good old days" in a year or two (or three...)
Why is it tedious? Is it because it made you think and learn to play your charater instead of being able to do a million mindless pointless quests?
Its' very, very, very, very tedious. If you do it solo. Questers are quite often solo players. They want to run around an MMORPG doing quests just like they were playing a solo RPG, only they get to wave at other players once in a while, which they think makes the game more fun.
Imagine mob grinding by yourself all the time. It would indeed be tedious.
If you do nothing but solo sure I can see it being tedious but I like to group and to socialize while exp grinding. Trust me I did my far share of soloing on my Necromancer.... Fire tables anyone?......but I would have my MP3 player on and it didn't bother me at all because I choose when I wanted to solo and when I wanted to group.... See player choice is very important to me and the current quest grinding games limit my choices.
Sooner or Later
While I hate grinding in any form, I have to say that doing quests is more fun than just killing the same mobs over and over again in one place trying to make the next level. At least quests make you think to some small degree about where you need to go and what you need to do.
I remember how mind-numbing and excruiciatingly boring MMORPGs were before all the quest chains and I have to say that games today are at least a little less boring with them.
And if you REALLY hate quests, you can actually level at nearly the same speed in games like WOW by not doing quests at all. If you skip quests entirely, you aren't required to waste any time by running from point A to point B, and so even though you aren't getting the exp from turning the quest in, you still level nearly as fast.
The problem is that MMORPGs by design require grinding of some form in order to keep us investing our time and paying our $15 bucks per month. No matter which way you go, its going to be a very boring and time-consuming process leveling your character up to max.
Why is it tedious? Is it because it made you think and learn to play your charater instead of being able to do a million mindless pointless quests?
How does mob grinding make you any better a player? It isn't like you don't have to kill dozens of mobs to complete a typical quest in mmos.
Do you somehow get better because you are killing mobs of your liking instead of some that are the objective of a quest?
That simply is not true. How long does it take to level to max in WoW? how long in EQ1? how long in Vanguard? How long in WAR?
Games are way to fast today because of quest grinding, which are way more boring then mob grinding. I would much rather find a nice spot to hunt and socialize then be lead by the hand though a game like in WoW.
How do quest require anything thinking? It shows you were to go on the little mini map, any moron can follow the map.
Sooner or Later
When I think of questing this comes to mind.
www.youtube.com/watch
wow, I'm simply amazed. Let's look at this shall we.
First of all you are basically saying "I see things in one way therefore everyone automatically see it my way". I would never make such an assessment.
I would say in my experience, "yes" seeing a living world and seeing people doing things does make the game more fun. From the horse's mouth. It makes it more fun. There is a palpable difference in the world of say, a game like Oblivion, when compared to an mmo with regards to how the populace moves about and conducts its business. as far as your statement "if you aren't affecting the game world then there is no reason to play it", again, this is your opinion. But it's not fact. If I want to log in and stand in a corner and do nothing but watch people pass AND pay 15.00 per month for the privilege to do so then I will.
And that is the crux of the matter. People ARE playing mmo's and are enjoying them, therefore they are finding something of substance to their experience.
Your second example is not applicable. You are boiling down the mmo experience to just the tasks that one does. But since players are playing solo, there is obviously something that they are getting out of it. It's probably not just the tasks but being among a vibrant and huge world. Whether or not one can affect the game world is really up to the player itself. Yes, a game like Lineage 2 will have a greater connection to the player because of the game play (in my opinion) but it doesn't invalidate how another player perceives his/her experience in a game like WoW or LOTRO.
I do solo in mmo's and that's not what it's like. So this is obviously individual perception. In the end, players are playing and they are soloing and they are loving it. Short of the grouping police coming by and telling us how we should be playing, I think we will find our own fun. If it ceases to be fun then we will stop.
Most of what he says is true and i agree with him, i play MMOG's because it's a grping game, (well not anymore says the devs) now days it's a solo rpg with online elements mass quest grinds, speed leveling, it's no longer about the world/meeting people, it's about geting to "end game" and finding a guild and only talk and do stuff with that guild alone.
MMORPG - MQDORPG we need a fine line from the two, side note i used to love PuGs but now it's the most hated thing says players of today.
I don't see it as being true at all. But I think that's because there is a notable difference between early mmo players and current mmo players.
The problem seems to be that we are all arguing apples and oranges.
Not a lot of people played early mmo's. At least if you were to compare them to the amount of people today. And there were real reasons why people didn't play. besides the geek stigma, the amount of time that one had to put in these games in order to accomplish things was quite sizable. The earlier games were not everyone's cup of tea.
However, along comes WoW who looks at some of the things that people didn't like, they streamline it and suddenly it lowers the bar for players who aren't willing to look for hours for groups or spend hours upon hours just to have fun.
Also, I have to say, that there are so many sub issues with some of these complaints.
for intance, it seems that it's not really about questing but more about getting groups, keeping groups and being social. Something that quests might inhibit as people oftentimes drop the group after the quest is done.
Then, it's not just about getting groups but being social. wow. Here's the deal. I'll group with anyone of you but I DON"T want to be social.
I don't play these games to hang out and shoot the shit. I want to do the quest or grind or what have you. But I"m not interested in talking for talking's sake. I have real life friends to do that with.
And THAT is the real issue here. Some people are playing to play and to experience the game's content. But others are using these games as social outlets. I have no problem with that but that's not why I play. This is not to say I don't want to be social. But I don't want to talk and talk and talk about stuff. I want to play.
I can guarantee you that if we were to group and people were to start discussing things I'd have to turn off the group chat. Talk about ruining immersion.
Which then brings up the fact that perhaps that is why many solo. Because there is a bit of immersion breaking when you have some guy talking about sports, another about how x game is failing, another about his school, etc. I wouldn't sign up for that and I know a lot of people who also wouldn't.
However, group up to explore a dungeon or do quests or even grind and I'm in. But I don't want to shoot the shit (as I mentioned earlier).
What we seem to have here are completely different reasons to play these games. And that is what is causing the rift. Because some players still trying to assert their social play style and others are desiring a more focused game play experience.
And that is probalby why questing "kills' groups. It's hard to be social and keep groups together when people are reading text or listening to voice over dialogue.
edit: here's a thought. If you could group up and didn't have to quest, but the grouping required complete concentration and effort so that all it was more intense, say, like a raid, therefore no socializing, would people still paly mmos. Basically, if it was just about he gameplay?
Fair enough i can see your side of it too i'll make this quick, i never been a fan of world chat channels it's a big turn off when they talk about real life stuff
i'll keep world chat off as it's a tool for spamers and people tying to start a flame war of some kind.
I'm going to back out of this thread now as the sun is just coming out and i want to enjoy getting a tan
take care
Thank you. And I keep world chat off as well.
Not even because of the flames (which there are some) but just because what is usually going on has nothing to do with the game as such and just conversations.
I keep a Vanguard account when I just want to sign in a bit, do some exploring. One night I noticed that world chat was, well... full of chat. It was several people having a good conversation. And it was a good conversation. But I just didn't want to be part of a conversation I wanted to get to a far off area that I saw and was trying to find out how. Their conversation was taking the immersion out of the game and I felt like I was in a chat room. So off it went.
I've made some really good "game friends". But part of that process was just playing the way I liked and finding similiar people of like mind. But in the end, it's about some level of story and game play that keeps mmo's interesting.
That, and watching a live game world go by ; )
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo