I've been running into this alot lately in Eve and I used to run into this in UO also. I would get a long list of buddies then later find out that over half of them were just straight up too scared to venture into FFA areas. It's only a videogame guys, please take advantage of a game and its FFApvp mechanic. I can understand if you dont like FFApvp thats not what this is about. Im talking about the players that play these games and stay in a safe area all day... forever. In Eve these guys either stay in high sec space 100% or pay rent to some 0.0 alliance and are basically even safer in this area of the game then the high sec guys. They all miss out on so much of the game by doing this, it kills me. When my very own buddies do this it kills me even more. last week I let a friend use my Alt account to come with me to low sec and mess a few people up (or try LOL!) Since that day he's been skilling up his main for Frig pvp in low sec and thanks me everytime he sees me. Basically saying "Bro, If it wasn't for you I would be running missions forever like a pussy". Guys please stop being afraid and this just doesnt go for Eve this goes for any game with some type of risky pvp. We have a few games coming out soon that will use this FFA mechanic how are you going to take advantage of these new games if your too afraid to experience the best parts???
And again im talking about the people that play these games and actually like the idea of FFA but are too afraid to lose gear and money Not the guys that hate pvp and dont think pvp with risk is fun.
Thanks for reading.
I am not afraid of it.
I am disgusted by the type of playerbase these games attract.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
In a game that has FFA PvP areas they're avoided because people blatently don't want to live in the twinks world of play this way or lose badly. I have better things to do than enter the world of someone who has way to much time on their hands, spends way to much time copying theory crafters, and will play/grind MMORETARDED for a 5% advantage. ___________ PS I've played games that are more than a few times harsher than the ancient relic of UO or even something like EvE, and with much harsher looting and death penalties. The best part no "magical bank of 100% protection". Even something like EvE lowsec or even nullsec with "unheard of corp" affiliation was pretty safe since there was almost no way anyone/group could hurt you in any big way.
I guess I follow you alright until you mention playing a game with a harsher looting penalty than UO had at launch...
Full loot other than newb clothes and spell book. Oh look house keys and a rune (runs off to loot house).
Oh that's right they had a bank so I didn't have to wonder how they were running around with 10 times their body weight in junk they thought might be worth something...
That's ok I can just chop them up and make a mantle display for my fireplace.
I'll agree the only penalty was walking back to the bank to grab another set of gear... It was great for crafters (always had business).
Glance at wurmonline and glance at some of the earlier versions. Skill loss which for higher level people in all skills could equal a month or two of leveling(now tweaked), only having a bank of 5 items, everything else needed to be stored in a town/deed/structure they controlled. in the older versions(now just wild server and smaller extent home) all structures could be destroyed and looted(as a matter of fact when a deed did disband it was fun as hell going through all the buildings as a looter or similar, often times finding gear/tools from everywhere in the world). Deeds themselves while very safe there is certainly the potential to raid them and loot pretty much every item on them.
However even with the insanely harsh and profitable death penalty. PvP isn't really all that common since it's still a crafting and community game.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
I am disgusted by the type of playerbase these games attract.
Same here. I used to play RoP Mud with a customized code base with full looting and pvp and UO, it was good clean pvp fun back then when mmos are still a niche.. but since it became mainstream the people playing these games tend to get really nasty (cussing at you after killing you, and doing stupid /spit emotes and worse). Pretty much the attitude of people turned me off PvP games forever (I rather not associate with assholes). You could say that the essence of pvp/competitive gaming has been corrupted and polluted by the dirt of the unwashed masses.
If we take a look at the most successful MMO, WoW, we see that the most popular servers are the open PvP servers, which are like FFAPVP 'lite'. You can kill eachother anywhere you want, but you're still locked into factional warfare and you don't get any items from your felled foe.
As such, I think FFAPVP is what many people enjoy - however, most people have not really tried out FFAPVP with player looting, which is the important factor here.
However, as I myself have, I can tell those of you out there that are unsure about such gameplay, that it can be very very fun. It all depends on how the developers of the game implements the PvP system into the world. However, one should never dismiss FFAPVP until one has tried it, as it can offer a lot of enjoyment to many different sorts of gamers, casual and hardcore alike.
TO them my advice is: Grow a pair and try it out. You might actually like it. And besides...stuff you own just ends up owning you, and you won't probably understand that until you lose it all.
Case in point. If you're trying to sell someone something do you think it's wise to insult them? Tough love attitude tends to back fire and the person who might actually consider trying their hands on pvp is gonna back away thinking "On second thought, I don't wanna have to associate with assholes like these."
LoL!! Ok.....wow....if you're THAT easily insulted / offended, maybe you had better stick to cute fluffy PVE games.
I certainly mean no insult, but I guess there's no accounting for some people's tendency to over-react.
Well, yes you are trying to change their gameplay habbits to those of your own. You are suggesting that you have found something that they are missing out on. Oh stop did you even read through this thread? I'm not changing anything. It's more a FFA pvper giving a helping hand to a new pvper that wanted to participate in FFA but something stopped them. I'm not trying to take a dude that never wanted to pvp at all in eve and turn them pirate, relax.
How do you know that these people you speak of are in awe at the idea of FFA pvp with loot? There are many attractions to a game for many people. Not everyone who plays EvE gets into an orgasmic frenzy over PvP in the same way that not everyone gets a wide on sifting through spreadsheets. Again have you read through this thread? My whole OP is directed toward players that Want to pvp. If you played eve you know what im talking about. there are people that do nothing but mission run because they have no idea how fun pvp is in the game even though the pvp is what got them to install the game.
Get this, some people, like myself. really get no pleasure from killing/ganking a complete "stranger" for no reason other than "I could". I have no desire to lord over people or "pwn" them in an open world ffa scenario. In a battle ground it's a different story. You are not a pvper, my post isnt directed at players like you.
Do you realise that not everyone has the time or inclination to join a corp/guild of dedicated players who will help ensure you always have money and gear to compete and replace your losses? Some of these people you say have nice gear but are afraid to lose it, have you considered why? Perhaps it was a rare item, took alot of effort getting? For some there is no fun in losing it to someone who will work themselves into an orgy of excitement when they deprive you of that item. Sounds like someone is a slave to the gear they own? I have faction ships myself that I keep more as a novelty. their special too me so I dont take them out for pvp. But I refuse to let a specific item dictate my entire gameplay experience. Also the players im refering too are pvpers they just got a little scared of losing shit. they have no idea that once you get into pvp losing a ship isnt as big a deal as they think it is. To you not everyone has money to throw away on blown up ships, this is why we only fly what we replace. there's nothing stopping these guys from flying Cheap T1 frigs and cruisers. I dare say that alot of the safe zone people you speak of have had their fair share of expeience of low sec, pvp enviroment and pvp players, which is the very reason they hide in safe zone. Again these arent the people my OP is refering to.
Anyway I think you have the wrong Idea about me dude. Im not trying to force pve only players into pvp. I'm just trying to reassure players that are pvpers at heart that FFA isnt so bad and they should atleast try it. If they have tried it and it isnt for them thats fine lol.
I gotta agree with the OP, and that's why I started playing Darkfall. I love PVP games...but there has to be some kind of risk involved, or it all becomes meaningless. in Darkfall, if I can't afford to lose something, it stays in my bank. I have sets of throw-away gear that I use for harvesting or PVE, and if I get ganked and looted...no big deal. Hey, sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug. I love the fact that the moron next to me who ninja-looted the mob I killed, can then get killed by mobs as I stand there and watch...and then I can loot his sorry ass. If someone pisses me off while I'm playing, I can do something about it (or try at least). And wqhen I do gear up to kill, I go out with a thrill in my gut knowing that I am risking something, in order to gain something. A lot of strictly PVE players imply don't understand, because they're either afraid to try, or have this "boogie-man" image of PVP'ers. TO them my advice is: Grow a pair and try it out. You might actually like it. And besides...stuff you own just ends up owning you, and you won't probably understand that until you lose it all.
So if your such a hardcore pvp'er then why don't you use the best gear you have instead of going out in your noob gear most of the time? Its because even the "hardcore" types like yourself are afraid to lose their stuff. Same thing happens in EVE. About the only time people bring out their good ships that are fitted with the best equipment is for mission running in safe areas or for largr scale pvp encounters. Most of the time, pvp is done with cheaper ships, like frigates and cruisers, and lesser equipment.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I gotta agree with the OP, and that's why I started playing Darkfall. I love PVP games...but there has to be some kind of risk involved, or it all becomes meaningless. in Darkfall, if I can't afford to lose something, it stays in my bank. I have sets of throw-away gear that I use for harvesting or PVE, and if I get ganked and looted...no big deal. Hey, sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug. I love the fact that the moron next to me who ninja-looted the mob I killed, can then get killed by mobs as I stand there and watch...and then I can loot his sorry ass. If someone pisses me off while I'm playing, I can do something about it (or try at least). And wqhen I do gear up to kill, I go out with a thrill in my gut knowing that I am risking something, in order to gain something. A lot of strictly PVE players imply don't understand, because they're either afraid to try, or have this "boogie-man" image of PVP'ers. TO them my advice is: Grow a pair and try it out. You might actually like it. And besides...stuff you own just ends up owning you, and you won't probably understand that until you lose it all.
So if your such a hardcore pvp'er then why don't you use the best gear you have instead of going out in your noob gear most of the time? Its because even the "hardcore" types like yourself are afraid to lose their stuff. Same thing happens in EVE. About the only time people bring out their good ships that are fitted with the best equipment is for mission running in safe areas or for largr scale pvp encounters. Most of the time, pvp is done with cheaper ships, like frigates and cruisers, and lesser equipment.
I gotta agree with the OP, and that's why I started playing Darkfall. I love PVP games...but there has to be some kind of risk involved, or it all becomes meaningless. in Darkfall, if I can't afford to lose something, it stays in my bank. I have sets of throw-away gear that I use for harvesting or PVE, and if I get ganked and looted...no big deal. Hey, sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug. I love the fact that the moron next to me who ninja-looted the mob I killed, can then get killed by mobs as I stand there and watch...and then I can loot his sorry ass. If someone pisses me off while I'm playing, I can do something about it (or try at least). And wqhen I do gear up to kill, I go out with a thrill in my gut knowing that I am risking something, in order to gain something. A lot of strictly PVE players imply don't understand, because they're either afraid to try, or have this "boogie-man" image of PVP'ers. TO them my advice is: Grow a pair and try it out. You might actually like it. And besides...stuff you own just ends up owning you, and you won't probably understand that until you lose it all.
So if your such a hardcore pvp'er then why don't you use the best gear you have instead of going out in your noob gear most of the time? Its because even the "hardcore" types like yourself are afraid to lose their stuff. Same thing happens in EVE. About the only time people bring out their good ships that are fitted with the best equipment is for mission running in safe areas or for largr scale pvp encounters. Most of the time, pvp is done with cheaper ships, like frigates and cruisers, and lesser equipment.
'cause I'm a n00b and can't afford to lose my best gear yet.
Rule of thumb: if you can't afford to lose it, leave it in the bank.
Edit: and ya know, even if I DID lose my best gear....it's just stuff. I can get more.
I gotta agree with the OP, and that's why I started playing Darkfall. I love PVP games...but there has to be some kind of risk involved, or it all becomes meaningless. in Darkfall, if I can't afford to lose something, it stays in my bank. I have sets of throw-away gear that I use for harvesting or PVE, and if I get ganked and looted...no big deal. Hey, sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug. I love the fact that the moron next to me who ninja-looted the mob I killed, can then get killed by mobs as I stand there and watch...and then I can loot his sorry ass. If someone pisses me off while I'm playing, I can do something about it (or try at least). And wqhen I do gear up to kill, I go out with a thrill in my gut knowing that I am risking something, in order to gain something. A lot of strictly PVE players imply don't understand, because they're either afraid to try, or have this "boogie-man" image of PVP'ers. TO them my advice is: Grow a pair and try it out. You might actually like it. And besides...stuff you own just ends up owning you, and you won't probably understand that until you lose it all.
So if your such a hardcore pvp'er then why don't you use the best gear you have instead of going out in your noob gear most of the time? Its because even the "hardcore" types like yourself are afraid to lose their stuff. Same thing happens in EVE. About the only time people bring out their good ships that are fitted with the best equipment is for mission running in safe areas or for largr scale pvp encounters. Most of the time, pvp is done with cheaper ships, like frigates and cruisers, and lesser equipment.
'cause I'm a n00b and can't afford to lose my best gear yet.
Rule of thumb: if you can't afford to lose it, leave it in the bank.
Edit: and ya know, even if I DID lose my best gear....it's just stuff. I can get more.
And you're playing smart by doing that.
I want players that like pvp to try out FFApvp if they havent yet. I dont want someone to rush into pvp like a retarded chimp with his/her best gear on like an idiot and lose everything in a flash.
FFApvp requires smarts, you need to be careful, you need to scout, pick targets and run when you need to.
FFA doesn't mean your a big bas ass mofo willing to play like a retard.
I just dont wanna invest hours apon hours into a game and then have everything taken away by someone else. It would make me mad and quit. Life is stressful enough why would i want the same in a game? Its about having fun and relaxing, not stressing out about having to regain all of my gear. I love pvp but not when it affects the mood of a game. Pvp is better when it adds to the quality and makes it enjoyable.
That kinda defeats the purpose of equipment if everyone is just gonna fight nakid. I think Fury/Warhammer had it right, generate loot on the corpse of your enemies but not actually their equipment that is dropping. Then again it would defeat the purpose of full looting. Asheron's Call have a good system, drop only 1 piece of equipment (random most valuable one) on the corpse this led to a phenomenon where people would carry extra "expensive" items on them to serve as insurance.
It has nothing to do with fear or bravery. Enjoying being an industrialist or trader in Eve does not make you a coward. Just as being a pirate does not make you brave. It's all just pixels on a computer screen.
People have their own likes and dislikes as strange as some of them may seem to you.
I guess it would be similar to a person who enjoys playing poker but doesn't like to bet on it.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
I just dont wanna invest hours apon hours into a game and then have everything taken away by someone else. It would make me mad and quit. Life is stressful enough why would i want the same in a game? Its about having fun and relaxing, not stressing out about having to regain all of my gear. I love pvp but not when it affects the mood of a game. Pvp is better when it adds to the quality and makes it enjoyable.
I understand what your saying.
But why do you think FFApvp is stressful? It's only a game, most of the things you lose when you die you either have more of in a bank or aren't hard to replace with cash you make with normal play.
My RL is pretty demanding yet I find fun in FFA games I would never consider them stressful (why play a game if its stressful?)
Im a married man, with four children. I have a fulltime job in sales and a partime job helping my brother unload trucks at his job (extra cash is good). I would be the first dude to piss and moun if the 5-10 hours i get to play a MMO a week was stressful LOL!
FFAPVP = fun, not stress.
If you dont mind can you tell me if you actually tried to get into a FFA pvp game? or is the idea of losing stuff seem like it wouldnt be fun for you?
I just dont wanna invest hours apon hours into a game and then have everything taken away by someone else. It would make me mad and quit. Life is stressful enough why would i want the same in a game? Its about having fun and relaxing, not stressing out about having to regain all of my gear. I love pvp but not when it affects the mood of a game. Pvp is better when it adds to the quality and makes it enjoyable.
With a GOOD full loot system, whis isn't really an issue. Your stuff isn't your character...it's just cheap, replacable gear. Spend your "hours" improving your skills, and stockpiling gold / resources.
BANK OFTEN.
Then when you DO get rolled, it's no big deal, and it DOES add to the quality of the game....tension, excitement, a bit of fear. And the anticipation of what that guy you're about to kill might drop.
You are in the minority if you like FFA PvP. It is a waste of time and most people would rather play a FPS for FFA PVP. Look at the abjecy failure of Darkfall in the first month. It was worse than AoC even. That is because at least Conan wasn't FFA PvP with player loot.
It has nothing to do with fear or bravery. Enjoying being an industrialist or trader in Eve does not make you a coward. Just as being a pirate does not make you brave. It's all just pixels on a computer screen. People have their own likes and dislikes as strange as some of them may seem to you. I guess it would be similar to a person who enjoys playing poker but doesn't like to bet on it.
Are you responding directly to my OP, if so reread my posts in this thread. Im not calling regular pve fans cowards.
You are in the minority if you like FFA PvP. It is a waste of time and most people would rather play a FPS for FFA PVP. Look at the abjecy failure of Darkfall in the first month. It was worse than AoC even. That is because at least Conan wasn't FFA PvP with player loot.
What does FFA being a niche feature or your opinion on dakfalls failure have to do with my thread at all??
I just dont wanna invest hours apon hours into a game and then have everything taken away by someone else. It would make me mad and quit. Life is stressful enough why would i want the same in a game? Its about having fun and relaxing, not stressing out about having to regain all of my gear. I love pvp but not when it affects the mood of a game. Pvp is better when it adds to the quality and makes it enjoyable.
I think the difference that some of the previous posters are trying to call out is that once you stop considering time in a game an "investment", stop stressing about the gear, then you might find pvp fun and relaxing. As others have pointed out, risk what you can afford to lose. Then it won't matter as much to you. Save your uber-rare gear for non-pvp areas, etc. Then you can have the best of both worlds.
As for all of the "FFA PVP SUXS" posters, you are clearly in the wrong thread. The OP was clear that this was directed to players that like the concept of FFA PVP, but are afraid to try. If you don't like the concept of FFA PVP, then he was not writing toward you.
I just dont wanna invest hours apon hours into a game and then have everything taken away by someone else. It would make me mad and quit. Life is stressful enough why would i want the same in a game? Its about having fun and relaxing, not stressing out about having to regain all of my gear. I love pvp but not when it affects the mood of a game. Pvp is better when it adds to the quality and makes it enjoyable.
I understand what your saying.
But why do you think FFApvp is stressful? It's only a game, most of the things you lose when you die you either have more of in a bank or aren't hard to replace with cash you make with normal play.
My RL is pretty demanding yet I find fun in FFA games I would never consider them stressful (why play a game if its stressful?)
Im a married man, with four children. I have a fulltime job in sales and a partime job helping my brother unload trucks at his job (extra cash is good). I would be the first dude to piss and moun if the 5-10 hours i get to play a MMO a week was stressful LOL!
FFAPVP = fun, not stress.
If you dont mind can you tell me if you actually tried to get into a FFA pvp game? or is the idea of losing stuff seem like it wouldnt be fun for you?
Again, that is because you are wired that way.
I have friends who view all video games as a complete waste of time. I also have coworkers who view them as something that adults wouldn't be doing.
And they give their reasons and I can't say they are too far off. Except that I am wired in such a way to find them fun.
It really is about temperment.
I mean, there are people who love and collect hummel figurines. I can't for the life of me understand why, but they do it and they love it and there is a market for it.
It's probably because I am wired differently.
So people who don't want to lose equipment are probably enjoying a different angle in the game.
Case in point. I don't get frustrated in traffic. Ever. Ever. Ever. I also have infinite patience with lines. Doesn't matter how long.
But you can't tell me that the average person can't stand traffic and hates lines. Because much is made of the fact that they do.
Are they any lesser than me or weaker? No. Though there is in my opinion nothing stressful about traffic or lines for some reason people hate it. I chalk it up to them being wired in a completely different way.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
PvP would be more fun if people are nicer about it. Nothing ruins gameplay when you pk someone and they start cussing at you or they pk you and still cuss at you. I think people needs an attitude adjustment.
I just dont wanna invest hours apon hours into a game and then have everything taken away by someone else. It would make me mad and quit. Life is stressful enough why would i want the same in a game? Its about having fun and relaxing, not stressing out about having to regain all of my gear. I love pvp but not when it affects the mood of a game. Pvp is better when it adds to the quality and makes it enjoyable.
I understand what your saying.
But why do you think FFApvp is stressful? It's only a game, most of the things you lose when you die you either have more of in a bank or aren't hard to replace with cash you make with normal play.
My RL is pretty demanding yet I find fun in FFA games I would never consider them stressful (why play a game if its stressful?)
Im a married man, with four children. I have a fulltime job in sales and a partime job helping my brother unload trucks at his job (extra cash is good). I would be the first dude to piss and moun if the 5-10 hours i get to play a MMO a week was stressful LOL!
FFAPVP = fun, not stress.
If you dont mind can you tell me if you actually tried to get into a FFA pvp game? or is the idea of losing stuff seem like it wouldnt be fun for you?
Again, that is because you are wired that way.
I have friends who view all video games as a complete waste of time. I also have coworkers who view them as something that adults wouldn't be doing.
And they give their reasons and I can't say they are too far off. Except that I am wired in such a way to find them fun.
It really is about temperment.
I mean, there are people who love and collect hummel figurines. I can't for the life of me understand why, but they do it and they love it and there is a market for it.
It's probably because I am wired differently.
So people who don't want to lose equipment are probably enjoying a different angle in the game.
Case in point. I don't get frustrated in traffic. Ever. Ever. Ever. I also have infinite patience with lines. Doesn't matter how long.
But you can't tell me that the average person can't stand traffic and hates lines. Because much is made of the fact that they do.
Are they any lesser than me or weaker? No. Though there is in my opinion nothing stressful about traffic or lines for some reason people hate it. I chalk it up to them being wired in a completely different way.
I understand people, like what they like. I am in no way saying my style of play makes me better or worse than someone else.
My thread is basically a helping hand to pvp fans that have never tried FFA for some reason.
Some people just have the wrong Idea when it comes to FFA pvp.
Like the person that I was responding to when you quoted me seems like one of those players that never ever tried FFA they just have an idea of how it would feel to lose stuff and think its a bad thing.
I don't like ffapvp at all, with or without looting. I've always preferred faction based pvp, rvr like daoc. As far as looting, I find it a pain to have to craft, keep stuff in bank, go to bank, get out stuff to go back out and fight. It is just another kind of time sink.
I don't mind time sinks, but that particular one just bores me. I rather lose experience, even a level, or stats that have to always visit the bank and get armor than most likely I had to take up crafting for (which I'm not fond of). Take into account having to gather materials if can't just buy easily, ugh, see where I am going with this? I find that extremely boring, lol.
One other reason I am not fond of looting in pvp, and it is a bit of a silly one, but I hate to loot, lol. Having to click the corpse and then each item or a loot all even, just don't want to bother. When I am rich in a game, I usually don't even loot the corpses, or if I do, I'll just grab the cash. That leads me into why I love the group, hehe. Other people like to loot corpses usually, so I let them do all the work and if it is something good, I get a chance to roll for the item.
Oh, also the whole only risk what you're willing to lose is usually the smart way of playing, but it seems to take something away from the game. People just end up playing with easily obtained gear, stuff they store in bank and makes me wonder, whats the whole point. It is all worthless stuff and just wastes time going back and forth. If someone were to use really good stuff and lose it, the person taking it would most likely just bank it so they wouldn't lose.
I do see one fix to this which people probably wouldn't like and that is to make the game heavily gear dependant, as well as player skill. That way, someone with really rare gear will demolish those 4 guys who are naked and in noob gear, or just the run of the mill crafted crap. This would force people to actually use good equipment because otherwise they would not be able to win.
Maybe have like gear values such as the lowbie crafted sword is a 10, but the guy wearing great armor is a armor value of 20 so no weapons of lower value can do significant dmg. People can use them at any time of course, it is just you won't have a legion of people with starter gearing taking out vets. Of course if enough people with that value 10 sword attacks the guy with value 20 armor, they will kill him, but without risking your good stuff, you won't get the reward. Anyway something like that. I just never liked how risk vs reward was done and the time sink of replacing gear taking away from the whole purpose of ffapvp
PvP would be more fun if people are nicer about it. Nothing ruins gameplay when you pk someone and they start cussing at you or they pk you and still cuss at you. I think people needs an attitude adjustment.
They're just words, man. Personally I've never been one to smak-talk in PVP, but I have no problem ignoring those who do.
I guess I just have a "thicker skin" than some people about these things, and don't take everythng personally.
You are in the minority if you like FFA PvP. It is a waste of time and most people would rather play a FPS for FFA PVP. Look at the abjecy failure of Darkfall in the first month. It was worse than AoC even. That is because at least Conan wasn't FFA PvP with player loot.
Darkfall hasn't "failed". Hate to break the news to ya, but I guess someone had to do it.
Comments
I am not afraid of it.
I am disgusted by the type of playerbase these games attract.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
I guess I follow you alright until you mention playing a game with a harsher looting penalty than UO had at launch...
Full loot other than newb clothes and spell book. Oh look house keys and a rune (runs off to loot house).
Oh that's right they had a bank so I didn't have to wonder how they were running around with 10 times their body weight in junk they thought might be worth something...
That's ok I can just chop them up and make a mantle display for my fireplace.
I'll agree the only penalty was walking back to the bank to grab another set of gear... It was great for crafters (always had business).
Glance at wurmonline and glance at some of the earlier versions. Skill loss which for higher level people in all skills could equal a month or two of leveling(now tweaked), only having a bank of 5 items, everything else needed to be stored in a town/deed/structure they controlled. in the older versions(now just wild server and smaller extent home) all structures could be destroyed and looted(as a matter of fact when a deed did disband it was fun as hell going through all the buildings as a looter or similar, often times finding gear/tools from everywhere in the world). Deeds themselves while very safe there is certainly the potential to raid them and loot pretty much every item on them.
However even with the insanely harsh and profitable death penalty. PvP isn't really all that common since it's still a crafting and community game.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Same here. I used to play RoP Mud with a customized code base with full looting and pvp and UO, it was good clean pvp fun back then when mmos are still a niche.. but since it became mainstream the people playing these games tend to get really nasty (cussing at you after killing you, and doing stupid /spit emotes and worse). Pretty much the attitude of people turned me off PvP games forever (I rather not associate with assholes). You could say that the essence of pvp/competitive gaming has been corrupted and polluted by the dirt of the unwashed masses.
I believe FFA PvP can be extremely popular.
If we take a look at the most successful MMO, WoW, we see that the most popular servers are the open PvP servers, which are like FFAPVP 'lite'. You can kill eachother anywhere you want, but you're still locked into factional warfare and you don't get any items from your felled foe.
As such, I think FFAPVP is what many people enjoy - however, most people have not really tried out FFAPVP with player looting, which is the important factor here.
However, as I myself have, I can tell those of you out there that are unsure about such gameplay, that it can be very very fun. It all depends on how the developers of the game implements the PvP system into the world. However, one should never dismiss FFAPVP until one has tried it, as it can offer a lot of enjoyment to many different sorts of gamers, casual and hardcore alike.
Case in point. If you're trying to sell someone something do you think it's wise to insult them? Tough love attitude tends to back fire and the person who might actually consider trying their hands on pvp is gonna back away thinking "On second thought, I don't wanna have to associate with assholes like these."
LoL!! Ok.....wow....if you're THAT easily insulted / offended, maybe you had better stick to cute fluffy PVE games.
I certainly mean no insult, but I guess there's no accounting for some people's tendency to over-react.
Anyway I think you have the wrong Idea about me dude. Im not trying to force pve only players into pvp. I'm just trying to reassure players that are pvpers at heart that FFA isnt so bad and they should atleast try it. If they have tried it and it isnt for them thats fine lol.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
So if your such a hardcore pvp'er then why don't you use the best gear you have instead of going out in your noob gear most of the time? Its because even the "hardcore" types like yourself are afraid to lose their stuff. Same thing happens in EVE. About the only time people bring out their good ships that are fitted with the best equipment is for mission running in safe areas or for largr scale pvp encounters. Most of the time, pvp is done with cheaper ships, like frigates and cruisers, and lesser equipment.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
So if your such a hardcore pvp'er then why don't you use the best gear you have instead of going out in your noob gear most of the time? Its because even the "hardcore" types like yourself are afraid to lose their stuff. Same thing happens in EVE. About the only time people bring out their good ships that are fitted with the best equipment is for mission running in safe areas or for largr scale pvp encounters. Most of the time, pvp is done with cheaper ships, like frigates and cruisers, and lesser equipment.
That is called playing smart.
So if your such a hardcore pvp'er then why don't you use the best gear you have instead of going out in your noob gear most of the time? Its because even the "hardcore" types like yourself are afraid to lose their stuff. Same thing happens in EVE. About the only time people bring out their good ships that are fitted with the best equipment is for mission running in safe areas or for largr scale pvp encounters. Most of the time, pvp is done with cheaper ships, like frigates and cruisers, and lesser equipment.
'cause I'm a n00b and can't afford to lose my best gear yet.
Rule of thumb: if you can't afford to lose it, leave it in the bank.
Edit: and ya know, even if I DID lose my best gear....it's just stuff. I can get more.
So if your such a hardcore pvp'er then why don't you use the best gear you have instead of going out in your noob gear most of the time? Its because even the "hardcore" types like yourself are afraid to lose their stuff. Same thing happens in EVE. About the only time people bring out their good ships that are fitted with the best equipment is for mission running in safe areas or for largr scale pvp encounters. Most of the time, pvp is done with cheaper ships, like frigates and cruisers, and lesser equipment.
'cause I'm a n00b and can't afford to lose my best gear yet.
Rule of thumb: if you can't afford to lose it, leave it in the bank.
Edit: and ya know, even if I DID lose my best gear....it's just stuff. I can get more.
And you're playing smart by doing that.
I want players that like pvp to try out FFApvp if they havent yet. I dont want someone to rush into pvp like a retarded chimp with his/her best gear on like an idiot and lose everything in a flash.
FFApvp requires smarts, you need to be careful, you need to scout, pick targets and run when you need to.
FFA doesn't mean your a big bas ass mofo willing to play like a retard.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
I just dont wanna invest hours apon hours into a game and then have everything taken away by someone else. It would make me mad and quit. Life is stressful enough why would i want the same in a game? Its about having fun and relaxing, not stressing out about having to regain all of my gear. I love pvp but not when it affects the mood of a game. Pvp is better when it adds to the quality and makes it enjoyable.
That kinda defeats the purpose of equipment if everyone is just gonna fight nakid. I think Fury/Warhammer had it right, generate loot on the corpse of your enemies but not actually their equipment that is dropping. Then again it would defeat the purpose of full looting. Asheron's Call have a good system, drop only 1 piece of equipment (random most valuable one) on the corpse this led to a phenomenon where people would carry extra "expensive" items on them to serve as insurance.
It has nothing to do with fear or bravery. Enjoying being an industrialist or trader in Eve does not make you a coward. Just as being a pirate does not make you brave. It's all just pixels on a computer screen.
People have their own likes and dislikes as strange as some of them may seem to you.
I guess it would be similar to a person who enjoys playing poker but doesn't like to bet on it.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
I understand what your saying.
But why do you think FFApvp is stressful? It's only a game, most of the things you lose when you die you either have more of in a bank or aren't hard to replace with cash you make with normal play.
My RL is pretty demanding yet I find fun in FFA games I would never consider them stressful (why play a game if its stressful?)
Im a married man, with four children. I have a fulltime job in sales and a partime job helping my brother unload trucks at his job (extra cash is good). I would be the first dude to piss and moun if the 5-10 hours i get to play a MMO a week was stressful LOL!
FFAPVP = fun, not stress.
If you dont mind can you tell me if you actually tried to get into a FFA pvp game? or is the idea of losing stuff seem like it wouldnt be fun for you?
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
With a GOOD full loot system, whis isn't really an issue. Your stuff isn't your character...it's just cheap, replacable gear. Spend your "hours" improving your skills, and stockpiling gold / resources.
BANK OFTEN.
Then when you DO get rolled, it's no big deal, and it DOES add to the quality of the game....tension, excitement, a bit of fear. And the anticipation of what that guy you're about to kill might drop.
You are in the minority if you like FFA PvP. It is a waste of time and most people would rather play a FPS for FFA PVP. Look at the abjecy failure of Darkfall in the first month. It was worse than AoC even. That is because at least Conan wasn't FFA PvP with player loot.
Are you responding directly to my OP, if so reread my posts in this thread. Im not calling regular pve fans cowards.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
What does FFA being a niche feature or your opinion on dakfalls failure have to do with my thread at all??
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
I think the difference that some of the previous posters are trying to call out is that once you stop considering time in a game an "investment", stop stressing about the gear, then you might find pvp fun and relaxing. As others have pointed out, risk what you can afford to lose. Then it won't matter as much to you. Save your uber-rare gear for non-pvp areas, etc. Then you can have the best of both worlds.
As for all of the "FFA PVP SUXS" posters, you are clearly in the wrong thread. The OP was clear that this was directed to players that like the concept of FFA PVP, but are afraid to try. If you don't like the concept of FFA PVP, then he was not writing toward you.
I understand what your saying.
But why do you think FFApvp is stressful? It's only a game, most of the things you lose when you die you either have more of in a bank or aren't hard to replace with cash you make with normal play.
My RL is pretty demanding yet I find fun in FFA games I would never consider them stressful (why play a game if its stressful?)
Im a married man, with four children. I have a fulltime job in sales and a partime job helping my brother unload trucks at his job (extra cash is good). I would be the first dude to piss and moun if the 5-10 hours i get to play a MMO a week was stressful LOL!
FFAPVP = fun, not stress.
If you dont mind can you tell me if you actually tried to get into a FFA pvp game? or is the idea of losing stuff seem like it wouldnt be fun for you?
Again, that is because you are wired that way.
I have friends who view all video games as a complete waste of time. I also have coworkers who view them as something that adults wouldn't be doing.
And they give their reasons and I can't say they are too far off. Except that I am wired in such a way to find them fun.
It really is about temperment.
I mean, there are people who love and collect hummel figurines. I can't for the life of me understand why, but they do it and they love it and there is a market for it.
It's probably because I am wired differently.
So people who don't want to lose equipment are probably enjoying a different angle in the game.
Case in point. I don't get frustrated in traffic. Ever. Ever. Ever. I also have infinite patience with lines. Doesn't matter how long.
But you can't tell me that the average person can't stand traffic and hates lines. Because much is made of the fact that they do.
Are they any lesser than me or weaker? No. Though there is in my opinion nothing stressful about traffic or lines for some reason people hate it. I chalk it up to them being wired in a completely different way.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
PvP would be more fun if people are nicer about it. Nothing ruins gameplay when you pk someone and they start cussing at you or they pk you and still cuss at you. I think people needs an attitude adjustment.
I understand what your saying.
But why do you think FFApvp is stressful? It's only a game, most of the things you lose when you die you either have more of in a bank or aren't hard to replace with cash you make with normal play.
My RL is pretty demanding yet I find fun in FFA games I would never consider them stressful (why play a game if its stressful?)
Im a married man, with four children. I have a fulltime job in sales and a partime job helping my brother unload trucks at his job (extra cash is good). I would be the first dude to piss and moun if the 5-10 hours i get to play a MMO a week was stressful LOL!
FFAPVP = fun, not stress.
If you dont mind can you tell me if you actually tried to get into a FFA pvp game? or is the idea of losing stuff seem like it wouldnt be fun for you?
Again, that is because you are wired that way.
I have friends who view all video games as a complete waste of time. I also have coworkers who view them as something that adults wouldn't be doing.
And they give their reasons and I can't say they are too far off. Except that I am wired in such a way to find them fun.
It really is about temperment.
I mean, there are people who love and collect hummel figurines. I can't for the life of me understand why, but they do it and they love it and there is a market for it.
It's probably because I am wired differently.
So people who don't want to lose equipment are probably enjoying a different angle in the game.
Case in point. I don't get frustrated in traffic. Ever. Ever. Ever. I also have infinite patience with lines. Doesn't matter how long.
But you can't tell me that the average person can't stand traffic and hates lines. Because much is made of the fact that they do.
Are they any lesser than me or weaker? No. Though there is in my opinion nothing stressful about traffic or lines for some reason people hate it. I chalk it up to them being wired in a completely different way.
I understand people, like what they like. I am in no way saying my style of play makes me better or worse than someone else.
My thread is basically a helping hand to pvp fans that have never tried FFA for some reason.
Some people just have the wrong Idea when it comes to FFA pvp.
Like the person that I was responding to when you quoted me seems like one of those players that never ever tried FFA they just have an idea of how it would feel to lose stuff and think its a bad thing.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
I don't like ffapvp at all, with or without looting. I've always preferred faction based pvp, rvr like daoc. As far as looting, I find it a pain to have to craft, keep stuff in bank, go to bank, get out stuff to go back out and fight. It is just another kind of time sink.
I don't mind time sinks, but that particular one just bores me. I rather lose experience, even a level, or stats that have to always visit the bank and get armor than most likely I had to take up crafting for (which I'm not fond of). Take into account having to gather materials if can't just buy easily, ugh, see where I am going with this? I find that extremely boring, lol.
One other reason I am not fond of looting in pvp, and it is a bit of a silly one, but I hate to loot, lol. Having to click the corpse and then each item or a loot all even, just don't want to bother. When I am rich in a game, I usually don't even loot the corpses, or if I do, I'll just grab the cash. That leads me into why I love the group, hehe. Other people like to loot corpses usually, so I let them do all the work and if it is something good, I get a chance to roll for the item.
Oh, also the whole only risk what you're willing to lose is usually the smart way of playing, but it seems to take something away from the game. People just end up playing with easily obtained gear, stuff they store in bank and makes me wonder, whats the whole point. It is all worthless stuff and just wastes time going back and forth. If someone were to use really good stuff and lose it, the person taking it would most likely just bank it so they wouldn't lose.
I do see one fix to this which people probably wouldn't like and that is to make the game heavily gear dependant, as well as player skill. That way, someone with really rare gear will demolish those 4 guys who are naked and in noob gear, or just the run of the mill crafted crap. This would force people to actually use good equipment because otherwise they would not be able to win.
Maybe have like gear values such as the lowbie crafted sword is a 10, but the guy wearing great armor is a armor value of 20 so no weapons of lower value can do significant dmg. People can use them at any time of course, it is just you won't have a legion of people with starter gearing taking out vets. Of course if enough people with that value 10 sword attacks the guy with value 20 armor, they will kill him, but without risking your good stuff, you won't get the reward. Anyway something like that. I just never liked how risk vs reward was done and the time sink of replacing gear taking away from the whole purpose of ffapvp
They're just words, man. Personally I've never been one to smak-talk in PVP, but I have no problem ignoring those who do.
I guess I just have a "thicker skin" than some people about these things, and don't take everythng personally.
Darkfall hasn't "failed". Hate to break the news to ya, but I guess someone had to do it.