I never said he wasn't extream in his wording, or that he was inaccurate about some things. However, looting? Even the darkfall community thinks it sucks (Read: Auto-loot-macro). Keen and Graev’s Gaming Blog Seems to agree with me.
Sure, but the fact that he doesn't even mention the reasoning behind looting being as it is, is the crucial part here. The guy didn't know why or he would have at least mentioned it briefly.
Or take this part:
"You see, anyone can kill anyone. For the most part, your first ten or so hours in Darkfall are spent dying, repeatedly, at the hands of either the AI or a cyber-bully in a wolf-suit. In fact, past that mark, it feels impossible to avoid the clammy hands and bloodied sword of somebody who has specially allocated part of their day to griefing."
This clearly shows that this guys is not exactly a prime example of the niche AV has targetted with DF (that was a nice understatement). Most possibly he got frustrated by being ganked while he was frantically trying to come to terms with the UI, hehe.
I'm not saying that a pve fan can't write a proper review on a ffa pvp game, but you need an unbiased person for that .... who actually puts some time playing the game rather than venting the frustrations of his personal experience as a noob and rewarding it with a 2/10 "because it is an insignificant game by an indy dev who doesn't advertise on our site anyway."
It is not the responsibility of the player to find the "Fun" in a game, its the responsibility of the game to show the player the fun.
THAT!!!...
That right there... makes a GREAT quote...
That is something i agree with, 100 %..... but try saying it in the Eve forum here and see how those guys respond. I bet they come up with at least ten synonyms for moron.
I never said he wasn't extream in his wording, or that he was inaccurate about some things. However, looting? Even the darkfall community thinks it sucks (Read: Auto-loot-macro). Keen and Graev’s Gaming Blog Seems to agree with me.
Sure, but the fact that he doesn't even mention the reasoning behind looting being as it is, is the crucial part here. The guy didn't know why or he would have at least mentioned it briefly.
Trust me, he knows why, and we all know why its circumvented. Same reason it has always been. Who is the most "unknowledgeable" here, Darkfall developers for putting it in, and being surprised its circumvented, or the players, who mention it was a stupid mechanic to begin with, 10 years ago.
There is no way you can convene anyone, in this day and age, that grieving new players, or even allowing it, is a good game design. It appeals to only one type of player, the type that would dedicate a day to it.
Refer to my bootstrapping comment.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I never said he wasn't extream in his wording, or that he was inaccurate about some things. However, looting? Even the darkfall community thinks it sucks (Read: Auto-loot-macro). Keen and Graev’s Gaming Blog Seems to agree with me.
Sure, but the fact that he doesn't even mention the reasoning behind looting being as it is, is the crucial part here. The guy didn't know why or he would have at least mentioned it briefly.
Trust me, he knows why, and we all know why its circumvented. Same reason it has always been. Who is the most "unknowledgeable" here, Darkfall developers for putting it in, and being surprised its circumvented, or the players, who mention it was a stupid mechanic to begin with, 10 years ago.
There is no way you can convene anyone, in this day and age, that grieving new players, or even allowing it, is a good game design. It appeals to only one type of player, the type that would dedicate a day to it.
Refer to my bootstrapping comment.
They did it as service for UO players.
If they wanted to court the UO players, there wouldve been 29 other features they could of added.
I never said he wasn't extream in his wording, or that he was inaccurate about some things. However, looting? Even the darkfall community thinks it sucks (Read: Auto-loot-macro). Keen and Graev’s Gaming Blog Seems to agree with me.
Sure, but the fact that he doesn't even mention the reasoning behind looting being as it is, is the crucial part here. The guy didn't know why or he would have at least mentioned it briefly.
Trust me, he knows why, and we all know why its circumvented. Same reason it has always been. Who is the most "unknowledgeable" here, Darkfall developers for putting it in, and being surprised its circumvented, or the players, who mention it was a stupid mechanic to begin with, 10 years ago.
There is no way you can convene anyone, in this day and age, that grieving new players, or even allowing it, is a good game design. It appeals to only one type of player, the type that would dedicate a day to it.
Refer to my bootstrapping comment.
They did it as service for UO players.
If they wanted to court the UO players, there wouldve been 29 other features they could of added.
They did it for combat reasons, thinking that if you had to stand there dragging things into your bag, it would make you vulnerable.
And, it would. If people didn't circumvent it, legally i may add.
UO was simply the inspiration, to bad they did not learn why it worked in UO, and doesn't here. With out the macro, in darkfall, it serves as nothing more than punishment for new players, and a brick wall of accessibility.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
It is not the responsibility of the player to find the "Fun" in a game, its the responsibility of the game to show the player the fun.
THAT!!!...
That right there... makes a GREAT quote...
Very eloquently and succintly put. Spot-on.
1. I've played many games for 10-20 minutes and if I'm not having fun, I'm done with it. I don't even need two full hours to see if a game is fun or not. That doesn't make ANY logical sense.
2. It's a review (i.e. an opinion, a bias is implied). I think arguing whether the reviewer is credible or not is ***COMPLETELY*** irrelevant. What matters is Tasos' puerile reaction. A true professional wouldn't have given that review any attention at all. By kicking and screaming he gave that review a WHOLE LOT more relevance and credibility than if he would've kept his mouth shut.
3. As I said, fanbois will always be fanbois. No point in arguing or engaging on flame wars with them.
I don't play Darkfall... however, 9 hours to review an MMORPG? I don't care if that guy is a contribution writer or a staff writer... 9 hours? That's about long enough to get out of the starter zone in most MMOs, but clearly not enough to experience mid - end game content. I'm sure the new review of Darkfall will raise the score significantly, even if someone actually plays the game or not, due to the bad rep Eurogamer has received from this.
Nothing that the reviewer complained about would have changed with more hours in-game. Unless the interface or the core functionality of the game changes after so many hours then he spent enough time in the game to write what he did. It's just a badly designed game...so bad it's easy to see within minutes of logging on.
I've been playing Darkfall for about 1 week and think the article is laughable. Being they reference WoW I'm not surprised the person couldn't grasph simple "use mouse to aim" let alone they never even attempted to equip an item to the tool bar!
The write up seemed more like an opportunity to bash the game without any desire to play it.
That being said, yes, there are some issues with Darkfall even though it's one of the most engaging games I've played since pre-cu SWG. In fact, I don't know the last time I've had this much fun in a new mmo - kind crazy when you look at the incestant trolling of it.
I've been playing Darkfall for about 1 week and think the article is laughable. Being they reference WoW I'm not surprised the person couldn't grasph simple "use mouse to aim" let alone they never even attempted to equip an item to the tool bar! The write up seemed more like an opportunity to bash the game without any desire to play it. That being said, yes, there are some issues with Darkfall even though it's one of the most engaging games I've played since pre-cu SWG. In fact, I don't know the last time I've had this much fun in a new mmo - kind crazy when you look at the incestant trolling of it.
Play it for a month or so, you will understand. Most of us ex UO people were hoping they improved on what UO used to provide. Besides the siege play old UO had it all over Darkfall. Just too many missing features and their website is a disaster.
It is VERY VERY bad style of Aventurine, attacking a review by questioning the integrity of the reviewer. Just very bad style.
Ya know when you create stuff, you have to have the grandeur to stand above such things. I am drawing. Some people love what I draw, and some say its the greatest trash they have ever seen. So what? As creative person I have to live with that, and so has Aventurine.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
You know, Aventurine brought it on themselves, bringing the review out in the public eye, when they could have just waited much longer than just five hours after the allotted time to post a response to the review itself. If they had just found a way to remove the review privately, no one would have been the wiser, really. Some people would have cried foul, but then they would gradually learn to accept that the review wasn't complete, since they wouldn't have probably known that Aventurine themselves had requested the removal of the review. Thus, you wouldn't have all this turmoil.
Whether you agree with the review or not, is irrelevant. I play a ton of Koei games, and they all get lousy scores. I'm not affected by bad reviews as much as some people are. Sure, it might serve in turning me off a few games, but some games I will play just to see what it's like. If you can't look past a bad review and try the game for yourself, you have no right to criticize the game, since you're simply a mouthpiece for the critic, and not an individual.
I accept the faults in games, and seek enjoyment out of it. Critique a game I like, and I will end up agreeing with most of them. I firmly believe that just because you don't like a certain game, does not make it a bad game. I can dislike something popular, but that doesn't mean it's not popular, only that I do not like it. I try not to think that there is something wrong with other people, only that whatever it is is simply not for me.
I'm surprised there aren't more people like me. it is difficult to find a middle ground with polarizing games such as these. But, I guess that's the internet for you.
Sorry if I'm a little wordy. I often find it difficult to get my point across, so I have a tendency to over-explain myself.
I don't play Darkfall... however, 9 hours to review an MMORPG? I don't care if that guy is a contribution writer or a staff writer... 9 hours? That's about long enough to get out of the starter zone in most MMOs, but clearly not enough to experience mid - end game content. I'm sure the new review of Darkfall will raise the score significantly, even if someone actually plays the game or not, due to the bad rep Eurogamer has received from this.
Here is a little secret about looking at and judging MMO's. And I have yet to see a case where it doesn't hold true.
If the game completely sucks in the first 2 hours of game play, it will completely and utterly suck all the way up. If it fails to engage in the early stages. If the experience is just too unpleasent, then it will fail as a game. While it is possible for a game to have a deep and engaging early game, and start to suck in the later endgame, it will never work the other way around. They do not get better the deeper you go.
And regardless of whether the review spent 2 or 9 hours in game. It is clear his initial experiences were painful and unpleasent. Enough so that he chose to walk away. Even a niche game does not want to do that to a playerbase. The player may find that a game is not their style or cup of tea as they level and explore. But his complaints were not replated to "niche" or playstyle issues. hey were reflecting ease of using the UI, AI combat and actual core game systems and how well they function to an inexperienced user. No niche choices or preferences here.
Comments
THAT!!!...
That right there... makes a GREAT quote...
Sure, but the fact that he doesn't even mention the reasoning behind looting being as it is, is the crucial part here. The guy didn't know why or he would have at least mentioned it briefly.
Or take this part:
"You see, anyone can kill anyone. For the most part, your first ten or so hours in Darkfall are spent dying, repeatedly, at the hands of either the AI or a cyber-bully in a wolf-suit. In fact, past that mark, it feels impossible to avoid the clammy hands and bloodied sword of somebody who has specially allocated part of their day to griefing."
This clearly shows that this guys is not exactly a prime example of the niche AV has targetted with DF (that was a nice understatement). Most possibly he got frustrated by being ganked while he was frantically trying to come to terms with the UI, hehe.
I'm not saying that a pve fan can't write a proper review on a ffa pvp game, but you need an unbiased person for that .... who actually puts some time playing the game rather than venting the frustrations of his personal experience as a noob and rewarding it with a 2/10 "because it is an insignificant game by an indy dev who doesn't advertise on our site anyway."
My brand new bloggity blog.
THAT!!!...
That right there... makes a GREAT quote...
That is something i agree with, 100 %..... but try saying it in the Eve forum here and see how those guys respond. I bet they come up with at least ten synonyms for moron.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
Sure, but the fact that he doesn't even mention the reasoning behind looting being as it is, is the crucial part here. The guy didn't know why or he would have at least mentioned it briefly.
Trust me, he knows why, and we all know why its circumvented. Same reason it has always been. Who is the most "unknowledgeable" here, Darkfall developers for putting it in, and being surprised its circumvented, or the players, who mention it was a stupid mechanic to begin with, 10 years ago.
There is no way you can convene anyone, in this day and age, that grieving new players, or even allowing it, is a good game design. It appeals to only one type of player, the type that would dedicate a day to it.
Refer to my bootstrapping comment.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Sure, but the fact that he doesn't even mention the reasoning behind looting being as it is, is the crucial part here. The guy didn't know why or he would have at least mentioned it briefly.
Trust me, he knows why, and we all know why its circumvented. Same reason it has always been. Who is the most "unknowledgeable" here, Darkfall developers for putting it in, and being surprised its circumvented, or the players, who mention it was a stupid mechanic to begin with, 10 years ago.
There is no way you can convene anyone, in this day and age, that grieving new players, or even allowing it, is a good game design. It appeals to only one type of player, the type that would dedicate a day to it.
Refer to my bootstrapping comment.
They did it as service for UO players.
If they wanted to court the UO players, there wouldve been 29 other features they could of added.
Sure, but the fact that he doesn't even mention the reasoning behind looting being as it is, is the crucial part here. The guy didn't know why or he would have at least mentioned it briefly.
Trust me, he knows why, and we all know why its circumvented. Same reason it has always been. Who is the most "unknowledgeable" here, Darkfall developers for putting it in, and being surprised its circumvented, or the players, who mention it was a stupid mechanic to begin with, 10 years ago.
There is no way you can convene anyone, in this day and age, that grieving new players, or even allowing it, is a good game design. It appeals to only one type of player, the type that would dedicate a day to it.
Refer to my bootstrapping comment.
They did it as service for UO players.
If they wanted to court the UO players, there wouldve been 29 other features they could of added.
They did it for combat reasons, thinking that if you had to stand there dragging things into your bag, it would make you vulnerable.
And, it would. If people didn't circumvent it, legally i may add.
UO was simply the inspiration, to bad they did not learn why it worked in UO, and doesn't here. With out the macro, in darkfall, it serves as nothing more than punishment for new players, and a brick wall of accessibility.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
THAT!!!...
That right there... makes a GREAT quote...
Very eloquently and succintly put. Spot-on.
1. I've played many games for 10-20 minutes and if I'm not having fun, I'm done with it. I don't even need two full hours to see if a game is fun or not. That doesn't make ANY logical sense.
2. It's a review (i.e. an opinion, a bias is implied). I think arguing whether the reviewer is credible or not is ***COMPLETELY*** irrelevant. What matters is Tasos' puerile reaction. A true professional wouldn't have given that review any attention at all. By kicking and screaming he gave that review a WHOLE LOT more relevance and credibility than if he would've kept his mouth shut.
3. As I said, fanbois will always be fanbois. No point in arguing or engaging on flame wars with them.
Peace.
Nothing that the reviewer complained about would have changed with more hours in-game. Unless the interface or the core functionality of the game changes after so many hours then he spent enough time in the game to write what he did. It's just a badly designed game...so bad it's easy to see within minutes of logging on.
I've been playing Darkfall for about 1 week and think the article is laughable. Being they reference WoW I'm not surprised the person couldn't grasph simple "use mouse to aim" let alone they never even attempted to equip an item to the tool bar!
The write up seemed more like an opportunity to bash the game without any desire to play it.
That being said, yes, there are some issues with Darkfall even though it's one of the most engaging games I've played since pre-cu SWG. In fact, I don't know the last time I've had this much fun in a new mmo - kind crazy when you look at the incestant trolling of it.
Play it for a month or so, you will understand. Most of us ex UO people were hoping they improved on what UO used to provide. Besides the siege play old UO had it all over Darkfall. Just too many missing features and their website is a disaster.
Guy's a critic; Guy critisizes.
Freedom of speech in the public forum is law; Tasos is not above the law.
Steven Seagal could act this all out, I'm positive.
It is VERY VERY bad style of Aventurine, attacking a review by questioning the integrity of the reviewer. Just very bad style.
Ya know when you create stuff, you have to have the grandeur to stand above such things. I am drawing. Some people love what I draw, and some say its the greatest trash they have ever seen. So what? As creative person I have to live with that, and so has Aventurine.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
You know, Aventurine brought it on themselves, bringing the review out in the public eye, when they could have just waited much longer than just five hours after the allotted time to post a response to the review itself. If they had just found a way to remove the review privately, no one would have been the wiser, really. Some people would have cried foul, but then they would gradually learn to accept that the review wasn't complete, since they wouldn't have probably known that Aventurine themselves had requested the removal of the review. Thus, you wouldn't have all this turmoil.
Whether you agree with the review or not, is irrelevant. I play a ton of Koei games, and they all get lousy scores. I'm not affected by bad reviews as much as some people are. Sure, it might serve in turning me off a few games, but some games I will play just to see what it's like. If you can't look past a bad review and try the game for yourself, you have no right to criticize the game, since you're simply a mouthpiece for the critic, and not an individual.
I accept the faults in games, and seek enjoyment out of it. Critique a game I like, and I will end up agreeing with most of them. I firmly believe that just because you don't like a certain game, does not make it a bad game. I can dislike something popular, but that doesn't mean it's not popular, only that I do not like it. I try not to think that there is something wrong with other people, only that whatever it is is simply not for me.
I'm surprised there aren't more people like me. it is difficult to find a middle ground with polarizing games such as these. But, I guess that's the internet for you.
Sorry if I'm a little wordy. I often find it difficult to get my point across, so I have a tendency to over-explain myself.
Here is a little secret about looking at and judging MMO's. And I have yet to see a case where it doesn't hold true.
If the game completely sucks in the first 2 hours of game play, it will completely and utterly suck all the way up. If it fails to engage in the early stages. If the experience is just too unpleasent, then it will fail as a game. While it is possible for a game to have a deep and engaging early game, and start to suck in the later endgame, it will never work the other way around. They do not get better the deeper you go.
And regardless of whether the review spent 2 or 9 hours in game. It is clear his initial experiences were painful and unpleasent. Enough so that he chose to walk away. Even a niche game does not want to do that to a playerbase. The player may find that a game is not their style or cup of tea as they level and explore. But his complaints were not replated to "niche" or playstyle issues. hey were reflecting ease of using the UI, AI combat and actual core game systems and how well they function to an inexperienced user. No niche choices or preferences here.