The closest thing to Dell I've got is a laptop only cuz it was on special offer lol, but that was hidiously slow, I then formatted the HD and now it runs about 50x faster, Dell pile a load of crap with the computer, like their own sidebar, google crap and anything else they can find. So that might be the solution.
Dread, I'll work on getting teamspeak tonight sometime, but it's mothersday, so I kinda have to put 100% into my wife today versus taking care of the puter. Yesterday was all about both of our moms...
Is the freezing only happen while playing WOW or does it happen when playing any other game? since you have tried another psu and RAM that could mean its a simple software problem.
Well, truth be told I only have Oblivion loaded onto the new puter and from what I've noticed it does it on that too but not as severely.
I can describe it as sudden onset of lag, where the game staggers for about 3-4 seconds, then it returns to full speed for about 20 seconds and back to staggering/ jerky fps.
I'm begging to think that it might be software related.
The closest thing to Dell I've got is a laptop only cuz it was on special offer lol, but that was hidiously slow, I then formatted the HD and now it runs about 50x faster, Dell pile a load of crap with the computer, like their own sidebar, google crap and anything else they can find. So that might be the solution.
Well that's the amazing thing, this system didn't come with anything loaded on it except for Trendmicro security, that's all.
The closest thing to Dell I've got is a laptop only cuz it was on special offer lol, but that was hidiously slow, I then formatted the HD and now it runs about 50x faster, Dell pile a load of crap with the computer, like their own sidebar, google crap and anything else they can find. So that might be the solution.
Well that's the amazing thing, this system didn't come with anything loaded on it except for Trendmicro security, that's all.
Well i will be on all day and night, the wife is out of town.. so i got off the hook...lol
Yea but there are hidden drivers and programs that pre built's Add. As well as a BS recovery drive. Packed full if shit ,Gamers dont need. Pre builts are setup for anyone with little PC skills can use them easily. "Plug and play" it's a nightmare.
One of these Days MS will make a OS that is striped down, and you could customize the Install based on what you want to do...ie Gaming, Networking, or Video/Sound editing. Windows 7 will be more bloat free, hopefully.
"Beauty is only is only skin deep..." said the AMD/ATI fan. "Blah..Thats just what ugly people say..." said the Intel/Nvidia fan. You want price / performance, use the dollar menu..
Sigh... reading this thread makes me a bit sad. When you have a bluescreen the very first thing any computer knowledgeable should suggest is checking out the minidumps. They are located in a folder called minidump in your windows folder. If you upload them I'll have a look at the them as see which module in which process raised the stop exception. Furthermore it's a good idea to look through the event viewer for any useful information.
To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be. BSoDs can be caused by every low level component of the OS, user mode software accessing low level modules and failing hardward.
Your temps aren't bad btw. My hd 4870 is between 70C and 75C all the time any game at default fan settings. No problem there what so ever. Furthermore to the people saying ATI drivers are crap you must be joking. You can just as easily find examples in any game with nVidia related driver issues. In fact the driver issues are present on both sides and the only thing an user should consider is the control panel and price/performance.
Recommending changing to nVidia to "solve" a problem which you haven't determined in any way whatsoever is caused by the GPU is so dumb I can't believe I'm actually reading this. Not trying to be a fanboy here, but seriously. It's like taking your Mercedes to a mechanic who then recommends you simply just get a BMW. Dumb as hell.
So to the OP: Upload the minidump located in the minidump folder in windows root folder and I'll have a look at them. From there I can most of the time point out where directing to the problem might be in.
Sigh... reading this thread makes me a bit sad. When you have a bluescreen the very first thing any computer knowledgeable should suggest is checking out the minidumps. They are located in a folder called minidump in your windows folder. If you upload them I'll have a look at the them as see which module in which process raised the stop exception. Furthermore it's a good idea to look through the event viewer for any useful information. To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be. BSoDs can be caused by every low level component of the OS, user mode software accessing low level modules and failing hardward. Your temps aren't bad btw. My hd 4870 is between 70C and 75C all the time any game at default fan settings. No problem there what so ever. Furthermore to the people saying ATI drivers are crap you must be joking. You can just as easily find examples in any game with nVidia related driver issues. In fact the driver issues are present on both sides and the only thing an user should consider is the control panel and price/performance. Recommending changing to nVidia to "solve" a problem which you haven't determined in any way whatsoever is caused by the GPU is so dumb I can't believe I'm actually reading this. Not trying to be a fanboy here, but seriously. It's like taking your Mercedes to a mechanic who then recommends you simply just get a BMW. Dumb as hell.
So to the OP: Upload the minidump located in the minidump folder in windows root folder and I'll have a look at them. From there I can most of the time point out where directing to the problem might be in.
If you found it, you can just upload it to a filehost (e.g. rapidshare). Then I will have a look at them. If you want to check them out yourself, get either visual studio or debugging tools for windows. Make sure your symbols are correctly configured in either program.
Recommending changing to nVidia to "solve" a problem which you haven't determined in any way whatsoever is caused by the GPU is so dumb I can't believe I'm actually reading this. Not trying to be a fanboy here, but seriously. It's like taking your Mercedes to a mechanic who then recommends you simply just get a BMW. Dumb as hell.
I'm in IT myself Jack and you gave good advice. Hopefully you'll be able to help the OP with his issue. I just wanted to comment about what you posted above. I just found it funny because trading in your Merceds for a BMW actually would solve the problem in that case, and I know that's not what you were trying to say.
Should have said you went into the shop because you heard a clicking noise and the mechanic recommended replacing your entire transmission and getting a new engine without even looking at the car.
<----- Perpetual nitpicker.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Purchased this, it's been about a week, was playing WoW and the game froze suddenly then the screen went buggy, and then blue screen. I only have 14days to return the system if there's a problem, and I didn't purchase the extended warrenty, I haven't fudged with this thing at all, no OC'ing or anything, with the exception of adding my old hard drive as a 2nd HD. Should I be worried?
EXCHANGE IT, NOW! There is absolutely no reason you should be dealing with this problem out of the box. Take it back, get a new/different computer, enjoy your life. No reason to spend time trying to fix an issue like this with a brand new system.
Take out everything you put in yourself and put the stock components back in the computer... carefully. Whatever you do, do not tell the store you put your own hardware in the unit. This act already voided your maunfactuer's warranty.
One more thing. Dell still has a lot of hidden components running even if you don't see them. Next time I do a setup on a Dell I'll PM you with a list of things that I disable that are not needed and the correct way to disable the items.
Hopefully by then you will have a brand new working computer.
Oh one more thing I forgot to mention. Get rid of Trend Micro ASAP. It is one of the worst performing antivirus programs on the market and the Dells come with an outdated software version.
A good choice for your computer knowledge would be Kaspersky Internet Security. It's pretty much set and forget and I can send you the settings I use for my clients if you would like.
If you feel a bit more secure in your computer knowledge you could try Avira Premium Security suite which has a little higher detection rate than Kaspersky but you have to babysit it.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Recommending changing to nVidia to "solve" a problem which you haven't determined in any way whatsoever is caused by the GPU is so dumb I can't believe I'm actually reading this. Not trying to be a fanboy here, but seriously. It's like taking your Mercedes to a mechanic who then recommends you simply just get a BMW. Dumb as hell.
I'm in IT myself Jack and you gave good advice. Hopefully you'll be able to help the OP with his issue. I just wanted to comment about what you posted above. I just found it funny because trading in your Merceds for a BMW actually would solve the problem in that case, and I know that's not what you were trying to say.
Should have said you went into the shop because you heard a clicking noise and the mechanic recommended replacing your entire transmission and getting a new engine without even looking at the car.
<----- Perpetual nitpicker.
Yeah exactly. That example covers the whole guessing where it's wrong rather than diagnosing it and making an expensive repair for possibly no reason.
OP: Before giving in to returning your comp, you should let me have a look at the minidumps. Sometimes the problem is solved as easy as changing your firewall or installing new sound card drivers.
Sigh... reading this thread makes me a bit sad. When you have a bluescreen the very first thing any computer knowledgeable should suggest is checking out the minidumps. They are located in a folder called minidump in your windows folder. If you upload them I'll have a look at the them as see which module in which process raised the stop exception. Furthermore it's a good idea to look through the event viewer for any useful information. To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be. BSoDs can be caused by every low level component of the OS, user mode software accessing low level modules and failing hardward. Your temps aren't bad btw. My hd 4870 is between 70C and 75C all the time any game at default fan settings. No problem there what so ever. Furthermore to the people saying ATI drivers are crap you must be joking. You can just as easily find examples in any game with nVidia related driver issues. In fact the driver issues are present on both sides and the only thing an user should consider is the control panel and price/performance. Recommending changing to nVidia to "solve" a problem which you haven't determined in any way whatsoever is caused by the GPU is so dumb I can't believe I'm actually reading this. Not trying to be a fanboy here, but seriously. It's like taking your Mercedes to a mechanic who then recommends you simply just get a BMW. Dumb as hell.
So to the OP: Upload the minidump located in the minidump folder in windows root folder and I'll have a look at them. From there I can most of the time point out where directing to the problem might be in.
"To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be"
And yet you state right after...
" Before giving in to returning your comp, you should let me have a look at the minidumps. Sometimes the problem is solved as easy as changing your firewall or installing new sound card drivers."
Should take your own advice seeing how you havent read his mini dump yet..?
Also i already told him that....
if your stateing the "replace the card with Nvidia" post in this thread... that was more a poke in the ribs, to the ATI fans on the other thread, where this started. If you read on i told him i could walk him through the troubleshooting.
I have already told him about BSODs on the other thread.
I sugggested Replacing it if ALL else fails. and to try a Nvidia seeing how then Both of systems would match then and it would be easier for me to help him build it.
The point was sence its a Best Buy Pre built and has 10 day to return it.. that he could still change his build. If the game that he wants to play does not work on his hardware in its currnet driver state then a change would be in order. (if its a driver issue)
Read alittle more Before you call people out. And ATI Drivers A crap...nuff said. thats why I left ATI.
And reading the mini dump "could" help but not always.
What System you running?..Competitive gamer
"Beauty is only is only skin deep..." said the AMD/ATI fan. "Blah..Thats just what ugly people say..." said the Intel/Nvidia fan. You want price / performance, use the dollar menu..
Sigh... reading this thread makes me a bit sad. When you have a bluescreen the very first thing any computer knowledgeable should suggest is checking out the minidumps. They are located in a folder called minidump in your windows folder. If you upload them I'll have a look at the them as see which module in which process raised the stop exception. Furthermore it's a good idea to look through the event viewer for any useful information. To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be. BSoDs can be caused by every low level component of the OS, user mode software accessing low level modules and failing hardward. Your temps aren't bad btw. My hd 4870 is between 70C and 75C all the time any game at default fan settings. No problem there what so ever. Furthermore to the people saying ATI drivers are crap you must be joking. You can just as easily find examples in any game with nVidia related driver issues. In fact the driver issues are present on both sides and the only thing an user should consider is the control panel and price/performance. Recommending changing to nVidia to "solve" a problem which you haven't determined in any way whatsoever is caused by the GPU is so dumb I can't believe I'm actually reading this. Not trying to be a fanboy here, but seriously. It's like taking your Mercedes to a mechanic who then recommends you simply just get a BMW. Dumb as hell.
So to the OP: Upload the minidump located in the minidump folder in windows root folder and I'll have a look at them. From there I can most of the time point out where directing to the problem might be in.
"To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be"
And yet you state right after...
" Before giving in to returning your comp, you should let me have a look at the minidumps. Sometimes the problem is solved as easy as changing your firewall or installing new sound card drivers."
Should take your own advice seeing how you havent read his mini dump yet..?
As in you people for some reason would rather guess around than look at minidumps. And using two minutes here might save him a lot of trouble. It's logic. The most powerful way of diagnosing the problem that takes the shortest time = Memory dumps. There is no reason not to try it.
Also i already told him that....
if your stateing the "replace the card with Nvidia" post in this thread... that was more a poke in the ribs, to the ATI fans on the other thread, where this started. If you read on i told him i could walk him through the troubleshooting.
That doesn't change your first post -> You still made a dumb suggestion. Say instead in the first post that if you switch to nvidia you can help him.
I have already told him about BSODs on the other thread.
Good. The suggest it again here.
I sugggested Replacing it if ALL else fails. and to try a Nvidia seeing how then Both of systems would match then and it would be easier for me to help him build it.
The point was sence its a Best Buy Pre built and has 10 day to return it.. that he could still change his build. If the game that he wants to play does not work on his hardware in its currnet driver state then a change would be in order. (if its a driver issue)
BSoDs are NOT restricted to hardware and hardware drivers. Basically any low level operating software can do the trick.
Read alittle more Before you call people out. And ATI Drivers A crap...nuff said. thats why I left ATI.
Nuff said. Lol. I know just as many people with nvidia has BSoDs as people with ATI(actually more, but unlike you I know that's not the point. As stated in my post, you'll find problems with every graphics card in most games) And then ATI have a much superior interface and much superior features in it's control center. At least that's what the graphics department at my university say. Tried checking the difference between dual screen in ATI and nvidia? It's extreme. Having seen the inside business of many IT companies I see a lot of them using ATI alone for their superior dual screen support.
And reading the mini dump "could" help but not always.
If you follow your own suggestion and actually read my post, I said I could most of the time find the cause or at least get a good lead on it. Guessing around is probably the worst way to handle it, especially since checking those minidumps take 2 minutes and can very often point you in the right direction. What if it was his AV causing the troubles? Then he goes out and waste a lot of money replacing a perfectly working GPU. Reading the minidump initially is ALWAYS at ANY circumstance what you do if you are able to do so. Please refute that if you can. I'd love to see it.
What System you running?..Competitive gamer
AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (Planning an upgrade)
2 GB PC5400 DDR2 RAM
Yes you've guessed it, HIS HD 4870 512 MB
In the end there is no point discussing ATI vs Nvidia. Might as well discuss religion. But you must agree than before diagnosing the problem(when you are able to do so), changing hardware in hopes to stop a BSoD is incredibly stupid. It's not very different from when I'm programming. If my program throws an exception, unless I have a very good feeling what it based on the exception it throws(e.g. nullpointer exception, I should check for uninitialized objects or calling objects in an index that hasn't been put in that given collection), it's smarter using breakpoints and checking the stack trace than just looking around in the code.
Sigh... reading this thread makes me a bit sad. When you have a bluescreen the very first thing any computer knowledgeable should suggest is checking out the minidumps. They are located in a folder called minidump in your windows folder. If you upload them I'll have a look at the them as see which module in which process raised the stop exception. Furthermore it's a good idea to look through the event viewer for any useful information. To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be. BSoDs can be caused by every low level component of the OS, user mode software accessing low level modules and failing hardward. Your temps aren't bad btw. My hd 4870 is between 70C and 75C all the time any game at default fan settings. No problem there what so ever. Furthermore to the people saying ATI drivers are crap you must be joking. You can just as easily find examples in any game with nVidia related driver issues. In fact the driver issues are present on both sides and the only thing an user should consider is the control panel and price/performance. Recommending changing to nVidia to "solve" a problem which you haven't determined in any way whatsoever is caused by the GPU is so dumb I can't believe I'm actually reading this. Not trying to be a fanboy here, but seriously. It's like taking your Mercedes to a mechanic who then recommends you simply just get a BMW. Dumb as hell.
So to the OP: Upload the minidump located in the minidump folder in windows root folder and I'll have a look at them. From there I can most of the time point out where directing to the problem might be in.
"To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be"
And yet you state right after...
" Before giving in to returning your comp, you should let me have a look at the minidumps. Sometimes the problem is solved as easy as changing your firewall or installing new sound card drivers."
Should take your own advice seeing how you havent read his mini dump yet..?
As in you people for some reason would rather guess around than look at minidumps. And using two minutes here might save him a lot of trouble. It's logic. The most powerful way of diagnosing the problem that takes the shortest time = Memory dumps. There is no reason not to try it.
Also i already told him that....
if your stateing the "replace the card with Nvidia" post in this thread... that was more a poke in the ribs, to the ATI fans on the other thread, where this started. If you read on i told him i could walk him through the troubleshooting.
That doesn't change your first post -> You still made a dumb suggestion. Say instead in the first post that if you switch to nvidia you can help him.
I have already told him about BSODs on the other thread.
Good. The suggest it again here.
I sugggested Replacing it if ALL else fails. and to try a Nvidia seeing how then Both of systems would match then and it would be easier for me to help him build it.
The point was sence its a Best Buy Pre built and has 10 day to return it.. that he could still change his build. If the game that he wants to play does not work on his hardware in its currnet driver state then a change would be in order. (if its a driver issue)
BSoDs are NOT restricted to hardware and hardware drivers. Basically any low level operating software can do the trick.
Read alittle more Before you call people out. And ATI Drivers A crap...nuff said. thats why I left ATI.
Nuff said. Lol. I know just as many people with nvidia has BSoDs as people with ATI(actually more, but unlike you I know that's not the point. As stated in my post, you'll find problems with every graphics card in most games) And then ATI have a much superior interface and much superior features in it's control center. At least that's what the graphics department at my university say. Tried checking the difference between dual screen in ATI and nvidia? It's extreme. Having seen the inside business of many IT companies I see a lot of them using ATI alone for their superior dual screen support.
And reading the mini dump "could" help but not always.
If you follow your own suggestion and actually read my post, I said I could most of the time find the cause or at least get a good lead on it. Guessing around is probably the worst way to handle it, especially since checking those minidumps take 2 minutes and can very often point you in the right direction. What if it was his AV causing the troubles? Then he goes out and waste a lot of money replacing a perfectly working GPU. Reading the minidump initially is ALWAYS at ANY circumstance what you do if you are able to do so. Please refute that if you can. I'd love to see it.
What System you running?..Competitive gamer
AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (Planning an upgrade)
2 GB PC5400 DDR2 RAM
Yes you've guessed it, HIS HD 4870 512 MB
In the end there is no point discussing ATI vs Nvidia. Might as well discuss religion. But you must agree than before diagnosing the problem(when you are able to do so), changing hardware in hopes to stop a BSoD is incredibly stupid. It's not very different from when I'm programming. If my program throws an exception, unless I have a very good feeling what it based on the exception it throws(e.g. nullpointer exception, I should check for uninitialized objects or calling objects in an index that hasn't been put in that given collection), it's smarter using breakpoints and checking the stack trace than just looking around in the code.
Well since you started the ego trip .....
Just what i thought. Another low end PC guy trying to tell high end Pc guys what up.
I had a 790I Q9450 OC 3.8 on air before. (last 6 months) 280 Sli/ 295/ 285 swapped in and out
I have a second 750i E8400 8800GTS OC (behind me)
my last PC before all that was a 680i 8800 GTS SLI
In the last 2 years I have Built 15 Gaming PC for me and other people in my clan, and for Money. (in lots of different configs)
I do it for my Gaming Clan . People that game every day, for the last 5 years of the clan...we have over 35+ members that i sit in a Teamspeak Channel, I hear and supporting every possible problem over 40 hours a week.
You think that someone with your hands on Exp with that Fossil you cal a Competitive gamer PC, you have more exp?
First off, Mini Dumps can be miss-leading.. (wolf in sheep's clothing) IT could be a Sound driver issue and the BSOD points to the Video driver.
If the Mini Dump Was the Root to all evil, and tracings it would fix the problem, Tech support people would not have such a hard job.. (aside from the people that cant find their desktop).
You Recommended the Same Support for this guy, that i did. You just read between the lines, and are holding onto one thing i stated before which was a below the belt shot, at one of the other guys.
I have been talking to Falice for over a week, you come in last min to an A & B convo and trying to call people out.?
TROUBLE SHOOTING IS WHAT ALL TECH SUPPORT AND SYSTEM BUILDERS DO FIRST. it has to be done anyways. on a Pre built.
trouble shooting is for isolateing the problems, at the same time make sure everything is up to date. (too make sure there are no problems in the future. and rule things out) THE MAIN reason, why i didnt tell him first about the Mini dump, was seeing how its hard for somone that has no idea, and through a fourm..ass
All of which I told him to get started, then Meet me on TS and I would walk him through the harder stuff. At the point his PC
is still busted, I told him since its just a Best Buy rig take it back. IF that's what he wanted. ( he is new to this, you have to take baby steps.)
Your A back seat driver, coming in adding your 2 cents.
How would trouble shooting and doing a system check hurt him or cost him money?..........what wrong with you.
You bring up your Schools Tech-support exp, Acting like you know cause they know?
Dual monitor's... do you have Dual monitors? NO.... I DO. Just another hearsay Guy acting big in someone Else's pants.
Programmer.... oh god. I cant stand when you people come into A tech battle thinking a background in dated C++ gives you knowledge of hardware. Half guys are useing Old configs, and have no clue about new High-end PC's. Manly cause Programmers are broke, and stuck in there old ways. My old boss was a Programmer who wrote a multi million dollar softwear and he couldnt tell his ass from pecker, when it comes to hardwear. I had to show him the ropes, to play LOTRO.
If that horrid graphics Dept, cant figure out how to do it with Nvidia.? (Can i go to school there...lol)
It was the easiest thing I have done to date, with 4 diff Setups and types of monitors.
All said and done....
you haven't built new or even close to new PC from scratch . so you wouldn't know the best way to isolate problems.
you have one busted GPU that can mach his system. in a busted PC.
and you think cause people around you are tech savvy that you are too.
And on top of it you come in here trying to pick a fight with a gaming SYSTEM builder that runs a gaming clan.
Go back you dealing with old Brick and swapping your GPU from your 3 year old dell.
And let the people that builds PCs from the ground up and stabilize... then OC clock and stabilize, then sell it people that i have to deal with daily so i cant mess up, Handle the Tech support.
And if you have ever build anything close to what We "Competitive" gamers run nowadays, you would understand how many BSOD can come up from start to OC finish, building a gaming rig.
PS: After you started name dropping Art departments, let me tell you. I'm I Profl Digital Painter using Wacom Cintq 21 inch digital art monitor in a dual setup. when i was younger (14 years ago). I worked as an art director for a comic-book company.... I have been running Tri-Star work stations (10K) Since the first Gloria GL GPU with 16mb of video ram...lol, and the first wacom Tablets. I have been offered Jobs By Liquid entertainment / DC/ Marvel of which i turned down... twice Also have been offered a job by Nintendo 2 years ago. IM a tattoo Artist now, and make more money without having to wear a White collar.. so beat it with Name dropping.
I
"Beauty is only is only skin deep..." said the AMD/ATI fan. "Blah..Thats just what ugly people say..." said the Intel/Nvidia fan. You want price / performance, use the dollar menu..
Sigh... reading this thread makes me a bit sad. When you have a bluescreen the very first thing any computer knowledgeable should suggest is checking out the minidumps. They are located in a folder called minidump in your windows folder. If you upload them I'll have a look at the them as see which module in which process raised the stop exception. Furthermore it's a good idea to look through the event viewer for any useful information. To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be. BSoDs can be caused by every low level component of the OS, user mode software accessing low level modules and failing hardward. Your temps aren't bad btw. My hd 4870 is between 70C and 75C all the time any game at default fan settings. No problem there what so ever. Furthermore to the people saying ATI drivers are crap you must be joking. You can just as easily find examples in any game with nVidia related driver issues. In fact the driver issues are present on both sides and the only thing an user should consider is the control panel and price/performance. Recommending changing to nVidia to "solve" a problem which you haven't determined in any way whatsoever is caused by the GPU is so dumb I can't believe I'm actually reading this. Not trying to be a fanboy here, but seriously. It's like taking your Mercedes to a mechanic who then recommends you simply just get a BMW. Dumb as hell.
So to the OP: Upload the minidump located in the minidump folder in windows root folder and I'll have a look at them. From there I can most of the time point out where directing to the problem might be in.
"To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be"
And yet you state right after...
" Before giving in to returning your comp, you should let me have a look at the minidumps. Sometimes the problem is solved as easy as changing your firewall or installing new sound card drivers."
Should take your own advice seeing how you havent read his mini dump yet..?
As in you people for some reason would rather guess around than look at minidumps. And using two minutes here might save him a lot of trouble. It's logic. The most powerful way of diagnosing the problem that takes the shortest time = Memory dumps. There is no reason not to try it.
Also i already told him that....
if your stateing the "replace the card with Nvidia" post in this thread... that was more a poke in the ribs, to the ATI fans on the other thread, where this started. If you read on i told him i could walk him through the troubleshooting.
That doesn't change your first post -> You still made a dumb suggestion. Say instead in the first post that if you switch to nvidia you can help him.
I have already told him about BSODs on the other thread.
Good. The suggest it again here.
I sugggested Replacing it if ALL else fails. and to try a Nvidia seeing how then Both of systems would match then and it would be easier for me to help him build it.
The point was sence its a Best Buy Pre built and has 10 day to return it.. that he could still change his build. If the game that he wants to play does not work on his hardware in its currnet driver state then a change would be in order. (if its a driver issue)
BSoDs are NOT restricted to hardware and hardware drivers. Basically any low level operating software can do the trick.
Read alittle more Before you call people out. And ATI Drivers A crap...nuff said. thats why I left ATI.
Nuff said. Lol. I know just as many people with nvidia has BSoDs as people with ATI(actually more, but unlike you I know that's not the point. As stated in my post, you'll find problems with every graphics card in most games) And then ATI have a much superior interface and much superior features in it's control center. At least that's what the graphics department at my university say. Tried checking the difference between dual screen in ATI and nvidia? It's extreme. Having seen the inside business of many IT companies I see a lot of them using ATI alone for their superior dual screen support.
And reading the mini dump "could" help but not always.
If you follow your own suggestion and actually read my post, I said I could most of the time find the cause or at least get a good lead on it. Guessing around is probably the worst way to handle it, especially since checking those minidumps take 2 minutes and can very often point you in the right direction. What if it was his AV causing the troubles? Then he goes out and waste a lot of money replacing a perfectly working GPU. Reading the minidump initially is ALWAYS at ANY circumstance what you do if you are able to do so. Please refute that if you can. I'd love to see it.
What System you running?..Competitive gamer
AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (Planning an upgrade)
2 GB PC5400 DDR2 RAM
Yes you've guessed it, HIS HD 4870 512 MB
In the end there is no point discussing ATI vs Nvidia. Might as well discuss religion. But you must agree than before diagnosing the problem(when you are able to do so), changing hardware in hopes to stop a BSoD is incredibly stupid. It's not very different from when I'm programming. If my program throws an exception, unless I have a very good feeling what it based on the exception it throws(e.g. nullpointer exception, I should check for uninitialized objects or calling objects in an index that hasn't been put in that given collection), it's smarter using breakpoints and checking the stack trace than just looking around in the code.
Well since you started the ego trip .....
Just what i thought. Another low end PC guy trying to tell high end Pc guys what up.
I had a 790I Q9450 OC 3.8 on air before. (last 6 months) 280 Sli/ 295/ 285 swapped in and out
I have a second 750i E8400 8800GTS OC (behind me)
my last PC before all that was a 680i 8800 GTS SLI
Let's meassure dicks now? My computer runs everything at high settings at fine resolutions. Our computers have nothing to do with our knowledge. Besides it's been a while since I upgraded, where you clearly just upgraded your computer. But way to show your maturity 30 year old guy. Bashing a 20 year old student for not having upgraded his PC.
In the last 2 years I have Built 15 Gaming PC for me and other people in my clan, and for Money. (in lots of different configs)
I do it for my Gaming Clan . People that game every day, for the last 5 years of the clan...we have over 35+ members that i sit in a Teamspeak Channel, I hear and supporting every possible problem over 40 hours a week.
You think that someone with your hands on Exp with that Fossil you cal a Competitive gamer PC, you have more exp?
Please look at the profiles of pro-gamers. Few of them use all the newest hardware.
First off, Mini Dumps can be miss-leading.. (wolf in sheep's clothing) IT could be a Sound driver issue and the BSOD points to the Video driver.
If it's a sound driver issue but a video driver raising the flag you would almost always see it in the stack trace. Otherwise you can always dig deeper.
If the Mini Dump Was the Root to all evil, and tracings it would fix the problem, Tech support people would not have such a hard job.. (aside from the people that cant find their desktop).
You Recommended the Same Support for this guy, that i did. You just read between the lines, and are holding onto one thing i stated before which was a below the belt shot, at one of the other guys.
Didn't see you recommending analysing memory dumps in this thread.
I have been talking to Falice for over a week, you come in last min to an A & B convo and trying to call people out.?
Call fanboys as I see them
TROUBLE SHOOTING IS WHAT ALL TECH SUPPORT AND SYSTEM BUILDERS DO FIRST. it has to be done anyways. on a Pre built.
trouble shooting is for isolateing the problems, at the same time make sure everything is up to date. (too make sure there are no problems in the future. and rule things out) THE MAIN reason, why i didnt tell him first about the Mini dump, was seeing how its hard for somone that has no idea, and through a fourm..ass
That's the whole beauty of post mortem debugging. He can send me the dump and I can suggest the solution.
All of which I told him to get started, then Meet me on TS and I would walk him through the harder stuff. At the point his PC
is still busted, I told him since its just a Best Buy rig take it back. IF that's what he wanted. ( he is new to this, you have to take baby steps.)
Your A back seat driver, coming in adding your 2 cents.
How would trouble shooting and doing a system check hurt him or cost him money?..........what wrong with you.
You bring up your Schools Tech-support exp, Acting like you know cause they know?
Haven't talked about my school tech support dept.
Dual monitor's... do you have Dual monitors? NO.... I DO. Just another hearsay Guy acting big in someone Else's pants.
Do you know if I have dual monitors? No? Didn't even mention my monitor.
Programmer.... oh god. I cant stand when you people come into A tech battle thinking a background in dated C++ gives you knowledge of hardware. Half guys are use Old configs, and have no clue about new High-end PC's. Manly cause Programmers are broke, and stuck in there old ways. My old boss was a Programmer you Wrote a multi million dollor soft wear and he couldnt tell his ass from pecker when it comes to hardwear. I had to show him the ropes to play LOTRO.
Background in dated C++? You assumptious old bastard. I started with Java, learned C++ and I am using C# now. Not to mention database technology and assembly. I have much knowledge of new end hardware even though I don't use it. What a retarded thing to say. Buying new hardware doesn't mean you know shit about it. My config has absolutely nothing to do with my knowledge of hardware.
If that horrid graphics Dept, cant figure out how to do it with Nvidia.? (Can i go to school there...lol)
Again with the assumptions
It was the easiest thing I have done to date, with 4 diff Setups and types of monitors.
All said and done....
you haven't built new or even close to new PC from scratch . so you wouldn't know the best way to isolate problems.
All my computers have been build by my self from the scratch. Again you assume things you don't know about me. I could give a full spec list, but can't be assed to that when discussing with you
you have one busted GPU that can mach his system. in a busted PC.
and you think cause people around you are tech savvy that you are too.
And on top of it you come in here trying to pick a fight with a gaming SYSTEM builder that runs a gaming clan.
I run a clan too. Gaming system builder lol. Yeah, but that on your CV mate.
Go back you dealing with old Brick and swapping your GPU from your 3 year old dell.
Again, reality is different from your assumption. All my computers have been build from scratch by me
And let the people that builds PCs from the ground up and stabilize... then OC clock and stabilize, then sell it people that i have to deal with daily so i cant mess up, Handle the Tech support.
And if you have ever build anything close to what We "Competitive" gamers run nowadays, you would understand how many BSOD can come up from start to OC finish, building a gaming rig.
I see you don't really know anything about the competitive scene. You'll see very few professional gamers(not a pro, I just play various leagues for fun) with equipment equivalent to yours.
PS: After you started name dropping Art departments, let me tell you. I'm I Profl Digital Painter using Wacom Cintq 21 inch digital art monitor in a dual setup. when i was younger (14 years ago). I worked as an art director for a comic-book company.... I have been running Tri-Star work stations (10K) Since the first Gloria GL GPU with 16mb of video ram...lol, and the first wacom Tablets. I have been offered Jobs By Liquid entertainment / DC/ Marvel of which i turned down... twice Also have been offered a job by Nintendo 2 years ago. IM a tattoo Artist now, and make more money without having to wear a White collar.. so beat it with Name dropping.
Name dropping? Told about my school. Thats all. You're the list your entire CV guy. Perhaps I should list all the courses I've been thru? Because that's basically what I got.
My computer avgs 36 fps at the GPU benchmark on high settings with 1600x1200. It runs better than you'd think. But then again it's irrelevant to this discussion.
Yes I'm dropping in an adding my two cents, because memory dumps are incredibly important to check through. I'm not going to discuss with you anymore because you are hating bigot with lots of personal irrelevant and ignorant jabs at person you're discussing with. So not gonna reply to your next post as that is probably going to be a load about how my "ancient computer" somehow removes all my experience and knowledge. Idiot.
In the end I think your biggest mistake was buying a prebuild at bestbuy, prebuilds are all garbage, constructed from garbage components, the PSU's are usualy the WORST offenders, you should take a look at eh PSU, I have a feeling you might be suprised at what you see...
"Well let me just quote the late-great Colonel Sanders, who said…’I’m too drunk to taste this chicken." - Ricky Bobby
Sigh... reading this thread makes me a bit sad. When you have a bluescreen the very first thing any computer knowledgeable should suggest is checking out the minidumps. They are located in a folder called minidump in your windows folder. If you upload them I'll have a look at the them as see which module in which process raised the stop exception. Furthermore it's a good idea to look through the event viewer for any useful information. To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be. BSoDs can be caused by every low level component of the OS, user mode software accessing low level modules and failing hardward. Your temps aren't bad btw. My hd 4870 is between 70C and 75C all the time any game at default fan settings. No problem there what so ever. Furthermore to the people saying ATI drivers are crap you must be joking. You can just as easily find examples in any game with nVidia related driver issues. In fact the driver issues are present on both sides and the only thing an user should consider is the control panel and price/performance. Recommending changing to nVidia to "solve" a problem which you haven't determined in any way whatsoever is caused by the GPU is so dumb I can't believe I'm actually reading this. Not trying to be a fanboy here, but seriously. It's like taking your Mercedes to a mechanic who then recommends you simply just get a BMW. Dumb as hell.
So to the OP: Upload the minidump located in the minidump folder in windows root folder and I'll have a look at them. From there I can most of the time point out where directing to the problem might be in.
"To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be"
And yet you state right after...
" Before giving in to returning your comp, you should let me have a look at the minidumps. Sometimes the problem is solved as easy as changing your firewall or installing new sound card drivers."
Should take your own advice seeing how you havent read his mini dump yet..?
As in you people for some reason would rather guess around than look at minidumps. And using two minutes here might save him a lot of trouble. It's logic. The most powerful way of diagnosing the problem that takes the shortest time = Memory dumps. There is no reason not to try it.
Also i already told him that....
if your stateing the "replace the card with Nvidia" post in this thread... that was more a poke in the ribs, to the ATI fans on the other thread, where this started. If you read on i told him i could walk him through the troubleshooting.
That doesn't change your first post -> You still made a dumb suggestion. Say instead in the first post that if you switch to nvidia you can help him.
I have already told him about BSODs on the other thread.
Good. The suggest it again here.
I sugggested Replacing it if ALL else fails. and to try a Nvidia seeing how then Both of systems would match then and it would be easier for me to help him build it.
The point was sence its a Best Buy Pre built and has 10 day to return it.. that he could still change his build. If the game that he wants to play does not work on his hardware in its currnet driver state then a change would be in order. (if its a driver issue)
BSoDs are NOT restricted to hardware and hardware drivers. Basically any low level operating software can do the trick.
Read alittle more Before you call people out. And ATI Drivers A crap...nuff said. thats why I left ATI.
Nuff said. Lol. I know just as many people with nvidia has BSoDs as people with ATI(actually more, but unlike you I know that's not the point. As stated in my post, you'll find problems with every graphics card in most games) And then ATI have a much superior interface and much superior features in it's control center. At least that's what the graphics department at my university say. Tried checking the difference between dual screen in ATI and nvidia? It's extreme. Having seen the inside business of many IT companies I see a lot of them using ATI alone for their superior dual screen support.
And reading the mini dump "could" help but not always.
If you follow your own suggestion and actually read my post, I said I could most of the time find the cause or at least get a good lead on it. Guessing around is probably the worst way to handle it, especially since checking those minidumps take 2 minutes and can very often point you in the right direction. What if it was his AV causing the troubles? Then he goes out and waste a lot of money replacing a perfectly working GPU. Reading the minidump initially is ALWAYS at ANY circumstance what you do if you are able to do so. Please refute that if you can. I'd love to see it.
What System you running?..Competitive gamer
AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (Planning an upgrade)
2 GB PC5400 DDR2 RAM
Yes you've guessed it, HIS HD 4870 512 MB
In the end there is no point discussing ATI vs Nvidia. Might as well discuss religion. But you must agree than before diagnosing the problem(when you are able to do so), changing hardware in hopes to stop a BSoD is incredibly stupid. It's not very different from when I'm programming. If my program throws an exception, unless I have a very good feeling what it based on the exception it throws(e.g. nullpointer exception, I should check for uninitialized objects or calling objects in an index that hasn't been put in that given collection), it's smarter using breakpoints and checking the stack trace than just looking around in the code.
Well since you started the ego trip .....
Just what i thought. Another low end PC guy trying to tell high end Pc guys what up.
I had a 790I Q9450 OC 3.8 on air before. (last 6 months) 280 Sli/ 295/ 285 swapped in and out
I have a second 750i E8400 8800GTS OC (behind me)
my last PC before all that was a 680i 8800 GTS SLI
Let's meassure dicks now? My computer runs everything at high settings at fine resolutions. Our computers have nothing to do with our knowledge. Besides it's been a while since I upgraded, where you clearly just upgraded your computer. But way to show your maturity 30 year old guy. Bashing a 20 year old student for not having upgraded his PC.
(its funny how kids always talk about maturity. it has everything to do with knowledge.......Hands on exp what gets you a job. its like a kid in tech school for mechincs telling a race car mechinc that he isnt doing something right. while you have never owned and worked on a race car...... I posted my past and present of PC's, to show you in order for me to have built these PCs. i would have had to get them stable so i can OC them. Wouldnt i have to know what im doing? I learned the books then applied it, and came out with a working Product. Thats how the world works, and how you are judged.... by what you CAN do, not what you CAN say.)
In the last 2 years I have Built 15 Gaming PC for me and other people in my clan, and for Money. (in lots of different configs)
I do it for my Gaming Clan . People that game every day, for the last 5 years of the clan...we have over 35+ members that i sit in a Teamspeak Channel, I hear and supporting every possible problem over 40 hours a week.
You think that someone with your hands on Exp with that Fossil you cal a Competitive gamer PC, you have more exp?
Please look at the profiles of pro-gamers. Few of them use all the newest hardware.
I am one, i have been Ranked in the "top ten" in consoles and PC alike. From TWL to Game ladders.... even have proof
First off, Mini Dumps can be miss-leading.. (wolf in sheep's clothing) IT could be a Sound driver issue and the BSOD points to the Video driver.
If it's a sound driver issue but a video driver raising the flag you would almost always see it in the stack trace. Otherwise you can always dig deeper.
?????????????????????????
If the Mini Dump Was the Root to all evil, and tracings it would fix the problem, Tech support people would not have such a hard job.. (aside from the people that cant find their desktop).
You Recommended the Same Support for this guy, that i did. You just read between the lines, and are holding onto one thing i stated before which was a below the belt shot, at one of the other guys.
Didn't see you recommending analysing memory dumps in this thread.
Last Thread where this started, i told you. I asked why no one had asked him to get the BSOD error.
I have been talking to Falice for over a week, you come in last min to an A & B convo and trying to call people out.?
Call fanboys as I see them
Im a fan and proud of it.. but if you have followed my past in these forums... I fanboy what ever tech gets me to play games the best...I hold my loyalty to the game, not some BS company. If ATI could stay on the top for more than a year... i would go with them if they fixed the short comings.. but sence Intel/Nivida has been the strongest, im a fan. And your not an ATI...lol
TROUBLE SHOOTING IS WHAT ALL TECH SUPPORT AND SYSTEM BUILDERS DO FIRST. it has to be done anyways. on a Pre built.
trouble shooting is for isolateing the problems, at the same time make sure everything is up to date. (too make sure there are no problems in the future. and rule things out) THE MAIN reason, why i didnt tell him first about the Mini dump, was seeing how its hard for somone that has no idea, and through a fourm..ass
That's the whole beauty of post mortem debugging. He can send me the dump and I can suggest the solution.
OF which Somone had already offered. But you want to sword fight to find out whos better....
All of which I told him to get started, then Meet me on TS and I would walk him through the harder stuff. At the point his PC
is still busted, I told him since its just a Best Buy rig take it back. IF that's what he wanted. ( he is new to this, you have to take baby steps.)
Your A back seat driver, coming in adding your 2 cents.
How would trouble shooting and doing a system check hurt him or cost him money?..........what wrong with you.
You bring up your Schools Tech-support exp, Acting like you know cause they know?
Haven't talked about my school tech support dept.
OK.. your school's Art department.. i thought you could have worked that out in your Super brain.
Dual monitor's... do you have Dual monitors? NO.... I DO. Just another hearsay Guy acting big in someone Else's pants.
Do you know if I have dual monitors? No? Didn't even mention my monitor.
No.... you dont have it. I can tell from your system.
Programmer.... oh god. I cant stand when you people come into A tech battle thinking a background in dated C++ gives you knowledge of hardware. Half guys are use Old configs, and have no clue about new High-end PC's. Manly cause Programmers are broke, and stuck in there old ways. My old boss was a Programmer you Wrote a multi million dollor soft wear and he couldnt tell his ass from pecker when it comes to hardwear. I had to show him the ropes to play LOTRO.
Background in dated C++? You assumptious old bastard. I started with Java, learned C++ and I am using C# now. Not to mention database technology and assembly. I have much knowledge of new end hardware even though I don't use it. What a retarded thing to say. Buying new hardware doesn't mean you know shit about it. My config has absolutely nothing to do with my knowledge of hardware.
I talked about this already. I stated not only did buy new hardwear, i have been buyin new hardwear and building them weekly.
If that horrid graphics Dept, cant figure out how to do it with Nvidia.? (Can i go to school there...lol)
Again with the assumptions
I would put money on it....
It was the easiest thing I have done to date, with 4 diff Setups and types of monitors.
All said and done....
you haven't built new or even close to new PC from scratch . so you wouldn't know the best way to isolate problems.
All my computers have been build by my self from the scratch. Again you assume things you don't know about me. I could give a full spec list, but can't be assed to that when discussing with you
building a beebee gun is not the same as building a HK416
you have one busted GPU that can mach his system. in a busted PC.
and you think cause people around you are tech savvy that you are too.
And on top of it you come in here trying to pick a fight with a gaming SYSTEM builder that runs a gaming clan.
I run a clan too. Gaming system builder lol. Yeah, but that on your CV mate.
MMO clan? I Run a Mulit gaming clan...why it matters. Exp on all types of games and Systems... Not non Taxing MMOS (we will leave AOC DX10 out of this) WTF is CV? Yea A gaming System builder....Thats not a hard idea to grasp, on a Gaming website in the hardwear Forum. I could say the same about...Smart tech people?... in Denmark...?
Go back you dealing with old Brick and swapping your GPU from your 3 year old dell.
Again, reality is different from your assumption. All my computers have been build from scratch by me
building a legos houses, is not the same as building A 3 family Condo.
And let the people that builds PCs from the ground up and stabilize... then OC clock and stabilize, then sell it people that i have to deal with daily so i cant mess up, Handle the Tech support.
And if you have ever build anything close to what We "Competitive" gamers run nowadays, you would understand how many BSOD can come up from start to OC finish, building a gaming rig.
I see you don't really know anything about the competitive scene. You'll see very few professional gamers(not a pro, I just play various leagues for fun) with equipment equivalent to yours.
Answered this .... and takein other's exp and passing them off as your own, is what got you into this in the first place.
PS: After you started name dropping Art departments, let me tell you. I'm I Profl Digital Painter using Wacom Cintq 21 inch digital art monitor in a dual setup. when i was younger (14 years ago). I worked as an art director for a comic-book company.... I have been running Tri-Star work stations (10K) Since the first Gloria GL GPU with 16mb of video ram...lol, and the first wacom Tablets. I have been offered Jobs By Liquid entertainment / DC/ Marvel of which i turned down... twice Also have been offered a job by Nintendo 2 years ago. IM a tattoo Artist now, and make more money without having to wear a White collar.. so beat it with Name dropping.
Name dropping? Told about my school. Thats all. You're the list your entire CV guy. Perhaps I should list all the courses I've been thru? Because that's basically what I got.
(bringing up people At your school, Dropping the "university" to some how give your statement Credit... is name dropping. Sorry in my world its the same thing)
My computer avgs 36 fps at the GPU benchmark on high settings with 1600x1200. It runs better than you'd think. But then again it's irrelevant to this discussion.
What benchmark?.....and that is not a good frame rate. And thanks for setting ATI back with that statement...I know guys, im being an ass.
Yes I'm dropping in an adding my two cents, because memory dumps are incredibly important to check through. I'm not going to discuss with you anymore because you are hating bigot with lots of personal irrelevant and ignorant jabs at person you're discussing with. So not gonna reply to your next post as that is probably going to be a load about how my "ancient computer" somehow removes all my experience and knowledge. Idiot.
You want a tissue?
How about this You came at everone like a dick , and now " your taking your ball and going home"....lol
Now your insulted?
IF you call people out, expect it back .
You dont have any legs to stand on. Your learning... and have only used shit PCs
And when was that last time you saw someone that Is running a Pre built, that knows how to read a mini dump?. Im not even that good at it. But Trouble Shooting will solve the problems even if you dont know what it was...
..Your A nerd that tried forceing """Whaaah you dont know how to connect the flex compassitor to the wigglesnort whaahaha" to a guy that has no clue about level 3 tech support , when level 1 would have worked. You might know your programing but you dont know people.
You tell your Teacher that you know more than him?...I bet he would have told you the same thing i did. When you have years of "hands on Exp".. then you can talk shit. Its the way the world works, in any prof.
"Beauty is only is only skin deep..." said the AMD/ATI fan. "Blah..Thats just what ugly people say..." said the Intel/Nvidia fan. You want price / performance, use the dollar menu..
Sigh... reading this thread makes me a bit sad. When you have a bluescreen the very first thing any computer knowledgeable should suggest is checking out the minidumps. They are located in a folder called minidump in your windows folder. If you upload them I'll have a look at the them as see which module in which process raised the stop exception. Furthermore it's a good idea to look through the event viewer for any useful information. To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be. BSoDs can be caused by every low level component of the OS, user mode software accessing low level modules and failing hardward. Your temps aren't bad btw. My hd 4870 is between 70C and 75C all the time any game at default fan settings. No problem there what so ever. Furthermore to the people saying ATI drivers are crap you must be joking. You can just as easily find examples in any game with nVidia related driver issues. In fact the driver issues are present on both sides and the only thing an user should consider is the control panel and price/performance. Recommending changing to nVidia to "solve" a problem which you haven't determined in any way whatsoever is caused by the GPU is so dumb I can't believe I'm actually reading this. Not trying to be a fanboy here, but seriously. It's like taking your Mercedes to a mechanic who then recommends you simply just get a BMW. Dumb as hell.
So to the OP: Upload the minidump located in the minidump folder in windows root folder and I'll have a look at them. From there I can most of the time point out where directing to the problem might be in.
"To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be"
And yet you state right after...
" Before giving in to returning your comp, you should let me have a look at the minidumps. Sometimes the problem is solved as easy as changing your firewall or installing new sound card drivers."
Should take your own advice seeing how you havent read his mini dump yet..?
As in you people for some reason would rather guess around than look at minidumps. And using two minutes here might save him a lot of trouble. It's logic. The most powerful way of diagnosing the problem that takes the shortest time = Memory dumps. There is no reason not to try it.
Also i already told him that....
if your stateing the "replace the card with Nvidia" post in this thread... that was more a poke in the ribs, to the ATI fans on the other thread, where this started. If you read on i told him i could walk him through the troubleshooting.
That doesn't change your first post -> You still made a dumb suggestion. Say instead in the first post that if you switch to nvidia you can help him.
I have already told him about BSODs on the other thread.
Good. The suggest it again here.
I sugggested Replacing it if ALL else fails. and to try a Nvidia seeing how then Both of systems would match then and it would be easier for me to help him build it.
The point was sence its a Best Buy Pre built and has 10 day to return it.. that he could still change his build. If the game that he wants to play does not work on his hardware in its currnet driver state then a change would be in order. (if its a driver issue)
BSoDs are NOT restricted to hardware and hardware drivers. Basically any low level operating software can do the trick.
Read alittle more Before you call people out. And ATI Drivers A crap...nuff said. thats why I left ATI.
Nuff said. Lol. I know just as many people with nvidia has BSoDs as people with ATI(actually more, but unlike you I know that's not the point. As stated in my post, you'll find problems with every graphics card in most games) And then ATI have a much superior interface and much superior features in it's control center. At least that's what the graphics department at my university say. Tried checking the difference between dual screen in ATI and nvidia? It's extreme. Having seen the inside business of many IT companies I see a lot of them using ATI alone for their superior dual screen support.
And reading the mini dump "could" help but not always.
If you follow your own suggestion and actually read my post, I said I could most of the time find the cause or at least get a good lead on it. Guessing around is probably the worst way to handle it, especially since checking those minidumps take 2 minutes and can very often point you in the right direction. What if it was his AV causing the troubles? Then he goes out and waste a lot of money replacing a perfectly working GPU. Reading the minidump initially is ALWAYS at ANY circumstance what you do if you are able to do so. Please refute that if you can. I'd love to see it.
What System you running?..Competitive gamer
AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (Planning an upgrade)
2 GB PC5400 DDR2 RAM
Yes you've guessed it, HIS HD 4870 512 MB
In the end there is no point discussing ATI vs Nvidia. Might as well discuss religion. But you must agree than before diagnosing the problem(when you are able to do so), changing hardware in hopes to stop a BSoD is incredibly stupid. It's not very different from when I'm programming. If my program throws an exception, unless I have a very good feeling what it based on the exception it throws(e.g. nullpointer exception, I should check for uninitialized objects or calling objects in an index that hasn't been put in that given collection), it's smarter using breakpoints and checking the stack trace than just looking around in the code.
Well since you started the ego trip .....
Just what i thought. Another low end PC guy trying to tell high end Pc guys what up.
I had a 790I Q9450 OC 3.8 on air before. (last 6 months) 280 Sli/ 295/ 285 swapped in and out
I have a second 750i E8400 8800GTS OC (behind me)
my last PC before all that was a 680i 8800 GTS SLI
Let's meassure dicks now? My computer runs everything at high settings at fine resolutions. Our computers have nothing to do with our knowledge. Besides it's been a while since I upgraded, where you clearly just upgraded your computer. But way to show your maturity 30 year old guy. Bashing a 20 year old student for not having upgraded his PC.
(its funny how kids always talk about maturity. it has everything to do with knowledge.......Hands on exp what gets you a job. its like a kid in tech school for mechincs telling a race car mechinc that he isnt doing something right. while you have never owned and worked on a race car...... I posted my past and present of PC's, to show you in order for me to have built these PCs. i would have had to get them stable so i can OC them. Wouldnt i have to know what im doing? I learned the books then applied it, and came out with a working Product. Thats how the world works, and how you are judged.... by what you CAN do, not what you CAN say.)
When it comes to debugging I don't just sound smart, I am smart. Since you've built so many different system, I'm guessing you would say following statement is true: The difference between building a high end system and a low end system is slim. Only difference is sockets and CPU coolers really(of course depending on extra perphirals you might have to connect more hardware, but the way you do is still the same). OC'ing is any chapter were experience and knowledege about different systems are important, but that's not that case in this thread. It's about debugging a problem.
In the last 2 years I have Built 15 Gaming PC for me and other people in my clan, and for Money. (in lots of different configs)
I do it for my Gaming Clan . People that game every day, for the last 5 years of the clan...we have over 35+ members that i sit in a Teamspeak Channel, I hear and supporting every possible problem over 40 hours a week.
You think that someone with your hands on Exp with that Fossil you cal a Competitive gamer PC, you have more exp?
Please look at the profiles of pro-gamers. Few of them use all the newest hardware.
I am one, i have been Ranked in the "top ten" in consoles and PC alike. From TWL to Game ladders.... even have proof
Cool which games?
Look at the player profiles at SK. What type of hardware do they have? I'm telling you, few people have the type of hardware you do.
First off, Mini Dumps can be miss-leading.. (wolf in sheep's clothing) IT could be a Sound driver issue and the BSOD points to the Video driver.
If it's a sound driver issue but a video driver raising the flag you would almost always see it in the stack trace. Otherwise you can always dig deeper.
?????????????????????????
Saying that they can be misleading at first, but you can usually dig deep enough to find the true cause.
If the Mini Dump Was the Root to all evil, and tracings it would fix the problem, Tech support people would not have such a hard job.. (aside from the people that cant find their desktop).
You Recommended the Same Support for this guy, that i did. You just read between the lines, and are holding onto one thing i stated before which was a below the belt shot, at one of the other guys.
Didn't see you recommending analysing memory dumps in this thread.
Last Thread where this started, i told you. I asked why no one had asked him to get the BSOD error.
JUST LIKE ME. I didn't see anyone suggest getting the minidump or the BSoD errors which I why asked in that way. If you asked him like that in the previous thread then we basically agree man.
I have been talking to Falice for over a week, you come in last min to an A & B convo and trying to call people out.?
Call fanboys as I see them
Im a fan and proud of it.. but if you have followed my past in these forums... I fanboy what ever tech gets me to play games the best...I hold my loyalty to the game, not some BS company. If ATI could stay on the top for more than a year... i would go with them if they fixed the short comings.. but sence Intel/Nivida has been the strongest, im a fan. And your not an ATI...lol
I'm an ATI fanboy right now. Or more correctly put, I like annoying nVidia fanboys. But I'll always buy the product that gives me highest price/performance, which happened to be ATI last I bought hardware
TROUBLE SHOOTING IS WHAT ALL TECH SUPPORT AND SYSTEM BUILDERS DO FIRST. it has to be done anyways. on a Pre built.
trouble shooting is for isolateing the problems, at the same time make sure everything is up to date. (too make sure there are no problems in the future. and rule things out) THE MAIN reason, why i didnt tell him first about the Mini dump, was seeing how its hard for somone that has no idea, and through a fourm..ass
That's the whole beauty of post mortem debugging. He can send me the dump and I can suggest the solution.
OF which Somone had already offered. But you want to sword fight to find out whos better....
Didn't know. Didn't see it in this thread.
All of which I told him to get started, then Meet me on TS and I would walk him through the harder stuff. At the point his PC
is still busted, I told him since its just a Best Buy rig take it back. IF that's what he wanted. ( he is new to this, you have to take baby steps.)
Your A back seat driver, coming in adding your 2 cents.
How would trouble shooting and doing a system check hurt him or cost him money?..........what wrong with you.
You bring up your Schools Tech-support exp, Acting like you know cause they know?
Haven't talked about my school tech support dept.
OK.. your school's Art department.. i thought you could have worked that out in your Super brain.
Dual monitor's... do you have Dual monitors? NO.... I DO. Just another hearsay Guy acting big in someone Else's pants.
Do you know if I have dual monitors? No? Didn't even mention my monitor.
No.... you dont have it. I can tell from your system.
Programmer.... oh god. I cant stand when you people come into A tech battle thinking a background in dated C++ gives you knowledge of hardware. Half guys are use Old configs, and have no clue about new High-end PC's. Manly cause Programmers are broke, and stuck in there old ways. My old boss was a Programmer you Wrote a multi million dollor soft wear and he couldnt tell his ass from pecker when it comes to hardwear. I had to show him the ropes to play LOTRO.
Background in dated C++? You assumptious old bastard. I started with Java, learned C++ and I am using C# now. Not to mention database technology and assembly. I have much knowledge of new end hardware even though I don't use it. What a retarded thing to say. Buying new hardware doesn't mean you know shit about it. My config has absolutely nothing to do with my knowledge of hardware.
I talked about this already. I stated not only did buy new hardwear, i have been buyin new hardwear and building them weekly.
That doesn't change the fact that still know lots about new hardware even though I don't own it. I know about the architecture of core i7, and it's purpose.
If that horrid graphics Dept, cant figure out how to do it with Nvidia.? (Can i go to school there...lol)
Again with the assumptions
I would put money on it....
It was the easiest thing I have done to date, with 4 diff Setups and types of monitors.
All said and done....
you haven't built new or even close to new PC from scratch . so you wouldn't know the best way to isolate problems.
All my computers have been build by my self from the scratch. Again you assume things you don't know about me. I could give a full spec list, but can't be assed to that when discussing with you
building a beebee gun is not the same as building a HK416
As stated, the difference in building low end systems and high system aren't big. Just different cpus -> different sockets and coolers, but that's it.
you have one busted GPU that can mach his system. in a busted PC.
and you think cause people around you are tech savvy that you are too.
And on top of it you come in here trying to pick a fight with a gaming SYSTEM builder that runs a gaming clan.
I run a clan too. Gaming system builder lol. Yeah, but that on your CV mate.
MMO clan? I Run a Mulit gaming clan...why it matters. Exp on all types of games and Systems... Not non Taxing MMOS (we will leave AOC DX10 out of this) WTF is CV? Yea A gaming System builder....Thats not a hard idea to grasp, on a Gaming website in the hardwear Forum. I could say the same about...Smart tech people?... in Denmark...?
CoD4 clan. I don't consider MMO competitive since it's usually more about items than actually player skill
CV = resume(My bad. Forgot we have different words for. CV is a latin abbreviation, which is why I forgot)
Also Denmark is very advanced in the IT business for a country it's size. World known(which the business of course) IT faculties and IT companies. Played the Hitman games? IO interactive is danish
Go back you dealing with old Brick and swapping your GPU from your 3 year old dell.
Again, reality is different from your assumption. All my computers have been build from scratch by me
building a legos houses, is not the same as building A 3 family Condo.
As stated, and I'd bet you already know this but simply like to play the asshole, the difference in building low end and high end systems is very slim, and if you can do the one, you can do the other. Configuring them(selecting parts) is also different, but I can assure you I know enough of it to do it. The only reason I don't have a high end system is because I can't afford it right now (just bought a PS3 and a new cellphone)
Besides, it still runs all games very good. CoD4 which I play a lot is 100% stable a 125 FPS when playing with Promod(set my limit there to ensure I'm within PB restrictions). Farcry 2 High/Very Settings never under 50 fps at 1280x960.
And let the people that builds PCs from the ground up and stabilize... then OC clock and stabilize, then sell it people that i have to deal with daily so i cant mess up, Handle the Tech support.
And if you have ever build anything close to what We "Competitive" gamers run nowadays, you would understand how many BSOD can come up from start to OC finish, building a gaming rig.
I see you don't really know anything about the competitive scene. You'll see very few professional gamers(not a pro, I just play various leagues for fun) with equipment equivalent to yours.
Answered this .... and takein other's exp and passing them off as your own, is what got you into this in the first place.
All debugging knowledge i have is from my own experience.
PS: After you started name dropping Art departments, let me tell you. I'm I Profl Digital Painter using Wacom Cintq 21 inch digital art monitor in a dual setup. when i was younger (14 years ago). I worked as an art director for a comic-book company.... I have been running Tri-Star work stations (10K) Since the first Gloria GL GPU with 16mb of video ram...lol, and the first wacom Tablets. I have been offered Jobs By Liquid entertainment / DC/ Marvel of which i turned down... twice Also have been offered a job by Nintendo 2 years ago. IM a tattoo Artist now, and make more money without having to wear a White collar.. so beat it with Name dropping.
Name dropping? Told about my school. Thats all. You're the list your entire CV guy. Perhaps I should list all the courses I've been thru? Because that's basically what I got.
(bringing up people At your school, Dropping the "university" to some how give your statement Credit... is name dropping. Sorry in my world its the same thing)
My computer avgs 36 fps at the GPU benchmark on high settings with 1600x1200. It runs better than you'd think. But then again it's irrelevant to this discussion.
What benchmark?.....and that is not a good frame rate. And thanks for setting ATI back with that statement...I know guys, im being an ass.
Argh somehow I missed writing Crysis. Yeah in Crysis I'd consider that to be good.
Yes I'm dropping in an adding my two cents, because memory dumps are incredibly important to check through. I'm not going to discuss with you anymore because you are hating bigot with lots of personal irrelevant and ignorant jabs at person you're discussing with. So not gonna reply to your next post as that is probably going to be a load about how my "ancient computer" somehow removes all my experience and knowledge. Idiot.
You want a tissue?
I want you to realize that our computer differences has absolutely nothing to do with this. Just because I don't own a high end system, doesn't mean I don't have knowledge about them. Further more is that irrelevent in this case, since the same debugging techniques apply. If he had been OC'ing them and wanted advice on it, that's a different story. But this is not the case.
How about this You came at everone like a dick , and now " your taking your ball and going home"....lol
Now your insulted?
No. I just don't see the point in discussing with you if you keep clutching onto that irrevelent thing about your PC vs my PC.
IF you call people out, expect it back .
You dont have any legs to stand on. Your learning... and have only used shit PCs
Sigh. Try using something else than comparing PCs. It doesn't have any merit on this subject to be honest.
And when was that last time you saw someone that Is running a Pre built, that knows how to read a mini dump?. Im not even that good at it. But Trouble Shooting will solve the problems even if you dont know what it was...
..Your A nerd that tried forceing """Whaaah you dont know how to connect the flex compassitor to the wigglesnort whaahaha" to a guy that has no clue about level 3 tech support , when level 1 would have worked. You might know your programing but you dont know people.
I've helped lots of people, shit even my uncle who doesn't know shit about computers this way. That's the beauty of post mortem debugging. He can send me the dump and I can come with a suggestion. I've people on this site and lots of other sites by having them send me the crash dump even though they don't know anything about computers.
You tell your Teacher that you know more than him?...I bet he would have told you the same thing i did. When you have years of "hands on Exp".. then you can talk shit. Its the way the world works, in any prof.
What?
Dude I realize I don't think we are far of from each other in how we handle the technical problems, which is also why I decided to reply instead of ignoring this - That maybe we could get a decent troubleshooting/debugging discussion going rather than this mudthrowing.
I haven't seen the other thread, so if it has already been suggested, I can see that I should have kept quiet. But I haven't seen the other thread, which is why your replies seems strange to me, as for me it's only natural that you take the BSoD itself as the first source of information for the debugging of the problem. And I'm thinking you're agreeing. As stated, I didn't see the other thread, so when I come here I read about people who him to take his computer back and all sorts of stupid stuff, before at least just having a fast look at what could have caused it, I react the way I do.
If you reply to this, could you try to keep it relevant in regards to debugging, rather than insulting me and my system? Not because I care about what a guy on the net has to say about me (lol), but because there is no point to it, and because we could have a better discussing about debugging and trouble shooting. Of course, if you don't, it's not like I can find a lot of stuff to jab at you with, but tbh I'd rather just ignore you then.
Its all good.. Call anyone you want out but me...lol
i have built SO many PCs of late.. All realy high end. Shit i have spent 60h+ builling PC in the last 2 months. gone through every BSOD i can think of... then i had to OC my CPU to 4.2 on air..... testing it for a week..
So you can maybe see that i would be angry that somone came at me. that hasnt even done what i have been dealing with.
(no offence)
All though my Grammar is horrid. my hobby is debating. Vocaly i tear people down...im a little slow when it comes to turning it into writing. And im From Boston....we are Assholes. So i can get a bit rough....
"Beauty is only is only skin deep..." said the AMD/ATI fan. "Blah..Thats just what ugly people say..." said the Intel/Nvidia fan. You want price / performance, use the dollar menu..
Dreadknot I get you man. If I were helping a dude and a guy came calling me a retard and suggest doing something I had already suggested I'd probably react the same way. Take pride in what I do and obviously so do you. But as stated, didn't see anyone suggest checking out the BSoDs so I was like "WTF!?, why do all that when you at least just could have a look at them quick". But I'm repeating myself now.
But yeah, from your posts it was also obvious you've had a lot of time hands-on with computers(few people will discuss ram timings when talking about BSoDs - Important though), and this whole thing was basically me missing you giving the right suggestion in the first place, so ya, I'll take that on my bill.
Glad we could "settle" this in mannered way, because it's stupid that we are throwing mud at each other when we are basically both making valid suggestions.
About the grammar, yes I get what you mean, but as you can see from my posts I'm not in your face about it, because that is besides the point. Why discuss grammar? I fully understand what you write anyway, so that wouldn't make sense. Though if our "heated discussion" had continued I might have attacked your grammar at some point, but yeah... glad we avoided that crap cause as said before, it's all so fucking senseless.
Finally, what is the OPs status? Kinda hijacked the thread here lol.
Sigh... reading this thread makes me a bit sad. When you have a bluescreen the very first thing any computer knowledgeable should suggest is checking out the minidumps. They are located in a folder called minidump in your windows folder. If you upload them I'll have a look at the them as see which module in which process raised the stop exception. Furthermore it's a good idea to look through the event viewer for any useful information. To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be. BSoDs can be caused by every low level component of the OS, user mode software accessing low level modules and failing hardward. Your temps aren't bad btw. My hd 4870 is between 70C and 75C all the time any game at default fan settings. No problem there what so ever. Furthermore to the people saying ATI drivers are crap you must be joking. You can just as easily find examples in any game with nVidia related driver issues. In fact the driver issues are present on both sides and the only thing an user should consider is the control panel and price/performance. Recommending changing to nVidia to "solve" a problem which you haven't determined in any way whatsoever is caused by the GPU is so dumb I can't believe I'm actually reading this. Not trying to be a fanboy here, but seriously. It's like taking your Mercedes to a mechanic who then recommends you simply just get a BMW. Dumb as hell.
So to the OP: Upload the minidump located in the minidump folder in windows root folder and I'll have a look at them. From there I can most of the time point out where directing to the problem might be in.
"To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be"
And yet you state right after...
" Before giving in to returning your comp, you should let me have a look at the minidumps. Sometimes the problem is solved as easy as changing your firewall or installing new sound card drivers."
Should take your own advice seeing how you havent read his mini dump yet..?
As in you people for some reason would rather guess around than look at minidumps. And using two minutes here might save him a lot of trouble. It's logic. The most powerful way of diagnosing the problem that takes the shortest time = Memory dumps. There is no reason not to try it.
Also i already told him that....
if your stateing the "replace the card with Nvidia" post in this thread... that was more a poke in the ribs, to the ATI fans on the other thread, where this started. If you read on i told him i could walk him through the troubleshooting.
That doesn't change your first post -> You still made a dumb suggestion. Say instead in the first post that if you switch to nvidia you can help him.
I have already told him about BSODs on the other thread.
Good. The suggest it again here.
I sugggested Replacing it if ALL else fails. and to try a Nvidia seeing how then Both of systems would match then and it would be easier for me to help him build it.
The point was sence its a Best Buy Pre built and has 10 day to return it.. that he could still change his build. If the game that he wants to play does not work on his hardware in its currnet driver state then a change would be in order. (if its a driver issue)
BSoDs are NOT restricted to hardware and hardware drivers. Basically any low level operating software can do the trick.
Read alittle more Before you call people out. And ATI Drivers A crap...nuff said. thats why I left ATI.
Nuff said. Lol. I know just as many people with nvidia has BSoDs as people with ATI(actually more, but unlike you I know that's not the point. As stated in my post, you'll find problems with every graphics card in most games) And then ATI have a much superior interface and much superior features in it's control center. At least that's what the graphics department at my university say. Tried checking the difference between dual screen in ATI and nvidia? It's extreme. Having seen the inside business of many IT companies I see a lot of them using ATI alone for their superior dual screen support.
And reading the mini dump "could" help but not always.
If you follow your own suggestion and actually read my post, I said I could most of the time find the cause or at least get a good lead on it. Guessing around is probably the worst way to handle it, especially since checking those minidumps take 2 minutes and can very often point you in the right direction. What if it was his AV causing the troubles? Then he goes out and waste a lot of money replacing a perfectly working GPU. Reading the minidump initially is ALWAYS at ANY circumstance what you do if you are able to do so. Please refute that if you can. I'd love to see it.
What System you running?..Competitive gamer
AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (Planning an upgrade)
2 GB PC5400 DDR2 RAM
Yes you've guessed it, HIS HD 4870 512 MB
In the end there is no point discussing ATI vs Nvidia. Might as well discuss religion. But you must agree than before diagnosing the problem(when you are able to do so), changing hardware in hopes to stop a BSoD is incredibly stupid. It's not very different from when I'm programming. If my program throws an exception, unless I have a very good feeling what it based on the exception it throws(e.g. nullpointer exception, I should check for uninitialized objects or calling objects in an index that hasn't been put in that given collection), it's smarter using breakpoints and checking the stack trace than just looking around in the code.
Well since you started the ego trip .....
Just what i thought. Another low end PC guy trying to tell high end Pc guys what up.
I had a 790I Q9450 OC 3.8 on air before. (last 6 months) 280 Sli/ 295/ 285 swapped in and out
I have a second 750i E8400 8800GTS OC (behind me)
my last PC before all that was a 680i 8800 GTS SLI
In the last 2 years I have Built 15 Gaming PC for me and other people in my clan, and for Money. (in lots of different configs)
I do it for my Gaming Clan . People that game every day, for the last 5 years of the clan...we have over 35+ members that i sit in a Teamspeak Channel, I hear and supporting every possible problem over 40 hours a week.
You think that someone with your hands on Exp with that Fossil you cal a Competitive gamer PC, you have more exp?
First off, Mini Dumps can be miss-leading.. (wolf in sheep's clothing) IT could be a Sound driver issue and the BSOD points to the Video driver.
If the Mini Dump Was the Root to all evil, and tracings it would fix the problem, Tech support people would not have such a hard job.. (aside from the people that cant find their desktop).
You Recommended the Same Support for this guy, that i did. You just read between the lines, and are holding onto one thing i stated before which was a below the belt shot, at one of the other guys.
I have been talking to Falice for over a week, you come in last min to an A & B convo and trying to call people out.?
TROUBLE SHOOTING IS WHAT ALL TECH SUPPORT AND SYSTEM BUILDERS DO FIRST. it has to be done anyways. on a Pre built.
trouble shooting is for isolateing the problems, at the same time make sure everything is up to date. (too make sure there are no problems in the future. and rule things out) THE MAIN reason, why i didnt tell him first about the Mini dump, was seeing how its hard for somone that has no idea, and through a fourm..ass
All of which I told him to get started, then Meet me on TS and I would walk him through the harder stuff. At the point his PC
is still busted, I told him since its just a Best Buy rig take it back. IF that's what he wanted. ( he is new to this, you have to take baby steps.)
Your A back seat driver, coming in adding your 2 cents.
How would trouble shooting and doing a system check hurt him or cost him money?..........what wrong with you.
You bring up your Schools Tech-support exp, Acting like you know cause they know?
Dual monitor's... do you have Dual monitors? NO.... I DO. Just another hearsay Guy acting big in someone Else's pants.
Programmer.... oh god. I cant stand when you people come into A tech battle thinking a background in dated C++ gives you knowledge of hardware. Half guys are useing Old configs, and have no clue about new High-end PC's. Manly cause Programmers are broke, and stuck in there old ways. My old boss was a Programmer who wrote a multi million dollar softwear and he couldnt tell his ass from pecker, when it comes to hardwear. I had to show him the ropes, to play LOTRO.
If that horrid graphics Dept, cant figure out how to do it with Nvidia.? (Can i go to school there...lol)
It was the easiest thing I have done to date, with 4 diff Setups and types of monitors.
All said and done....
you haven't built new or even close to new PC from scratch . so you wouldn't know the best way to isolate problems.
you have one busted GPU that can mach his system. in a busted PC.
and you think cause people around you are tech savvy that you are too.
And on top of it you come in here trying to pick a fight with a gaming SYSTEM builder that runs a gaming clan.
Go back you dealing with old Brick and swapping your GPU from your 3 year old dell.
And let the people that builds PCs from the ground up and stabilize... then OC clock and stabilize, then sell it people that i have to deal with daily so i cant mess up, Handle the Tech support.
And if you have ever build anything close to what We "Competitive" gamers run nowadays, you would understand how many BSOD can come up from start to OC finish, building a gaming rig.
PS: After you started name dropping Art departments, let me tell you. I'm I Profl Digital Painter using Wacom Cintq 21 inch digital art monitor in a dual setup. when i was younger (14 years ago). I worked as an art director for a comic-book company.... I have been running Tri-Star work stations (10K) Since the first Gloria GL GPU with 16mb of video ram...lol, and the first wacom Tablets. I have been offered Jobs By Liquid entertainment / DC/ Marvel of which i turned down... twice Also have been offered a job by Nintendo 2 years ago. IM a tattoo Artist now, and make more money without having to wear a White collar.. so beat it with Name dropping.
I
*sigh*
Geesh!
Looks like someone needs a Xanax/Ritalin and work out some of their insecurities. I'm like "OMG.. whats with all that nerd rage ??" Nobody attacked you.. please stay on the topic. This thread isn't about you!
I agree with Jack, unless you know your systems temperment, the mini-dumb is one of the best places to start when seeking help. The BSOD itself is a self help tool and the reason Windows does this. If the OP can post the pertinent info, we'll be able to assist/debug your problem with much more acuity.
___________________________
- Knowledge is power, ive been in school for 28 years!
But if yo are having problem with a computer, a branded one, and have the option to return it. Just do it, don't go fixing the problem by yourself, even if you could, and never do it by buying new hardware.
The manufacturer can both eat the cake and have it left.
It's a pain in the ass returning stuff, anyway I think that you should do it.
Sigh... reading this thread makes me a bit sad. When you have a bluescreen the very first thing any computer knowledgeable should suggest is checking out the minidumps. They are located in a folder called minidump in your windows folder. If you upload them I'll have a look at the them as see which module in which process raised the stop exception. Furthermore it's a good idea to look through the event viewer for any useful information. To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be. BSoDs can be caused by every low level component of the OS, user mode software accessing low level modules and failing hardward. Your temps aren't bad btw. My hd 4870 is between 70C and 75C all the time any game at default fan settings. No problem there what so ever. Furthermore to the people saying ATI drivers are crap you must be joking. You can just as easily find examples in any game with nVidia related driver issues. In fact the driver issues are present on both sides and the only thing an user should consider is the control panel and price/performance. Recommending changing to nVidia to "solve" a problem which you haven't determined in any way whatsoever is caused by the GPU is so dumb I can't believe I'm actually reading this. Not trying to be a fanboy here, but seriously. It's like taking your Mercedes to a mechanic who then recommends you simply just get a BMW. Dumb as hell.
So to the OP: Upload the minidump located in the minidump folder in windows root folder and I'll have a look at them. From there I can most of the time point out where directing to the problem might be in.
"To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be"
And yet you state right after...
" Before giving in to returning your comp, you should let me have a look at the minidumps. Sometimes the problem is solved as easy as changing your firewall or installing new sound card drivers."
Should take your own advice seeing how you havent read his mini dump yet..?
As in you people for some reason would rather guess around than look at minidumps. And using two minutes here might save him a lot of trouble. It's logic. The most powerful way of diagnosing the problem that takes the shortest time = Memory dumps. There is no reason not to try it.
Also i already told him that....
if your stateing the "replace the card with Nvidia" post in this thread... that was more a poke in the ribs, to the ATI fans on the other thread, where this started. If you read on i told him i could walk him through the troubleshooting.
That doesn't change your first post -> You still made a dumb suggestion. Say instead in the first post that if you switch to nvidia you can help him.
I have already told him about BSODs on the other thread.
Good. The suggest it again here.
I sugggested Replacing it if ALL else fails. and to try a Nvidia seeing how then Both of systems would match then and it would be easier for me to help him build it.
The point was sence its a Best Buy Pre built and has 10 day to return it.. that he could still change his build. If the game that he wants to play does not work on his hardware in its currnet driver state then a change would be in order. (if its a driver issue)
BSoDs are NOT restricted to hardware and hardware drivers. Basically any low level operating software can do the trick.
Read alittle more Before you call people out. And ATI Drivers A crap...nuff said. thats why I left ATI.
Nuff said. Lol. I know just as many people with nvidia has BSoDs as people with ATI(actually more, but unlike you I know that's not the point. As stated in my post, you'll find problems with every graphics card in most games) And then ATI have a much superior interface and much superior features in it's control center. At least that's what the graphics department at my university say. Tried checking the difference between dual screen in ATI and nvidia? It's extreme. Having seen the inside business of many IT companies I see a lot of them using ATI alone for their superior dual screen support.
And reading the mini dump "could" help but not always.
If you follow your own suggestion and actually read my post, I said I could most of the time find the cause or at least get a good lead on it. Guessing around is probably the worst way to handle it, especially since checking those minidumps take 2 minutes and can very often point you in the right direction. What if it was his AV causing the troubles? Then he goes out and waste a lot of money replacing a perfectly working GPU. Reading the minidump initially is ALWAYS at ANY circumstance what you do if you are able to do so. Please refute that if you can. I'd love to see it.
What System you running?..Competitive gamer
AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (Planning an upgrade)
2 GB PC5400 DDR2 RAM
Yes you've guessed it, HIS HD 4870 512 MB
In the end there is no point discussing ATI vs Nvidia. Might as well discuss religion. But you must agree than before diagnosing the problem(when you are able to do so), changing hardware in hopes to stop a BSoD is incredibly stupid. It's not very different from when I'm programming. If my program throws an exception, unless I have a very good feeling what it based on the exception it throws(e.g. nullpointer exception, I should check for uninitialized objects or calling objects in an index that hasn't been put in that given collection), it's smarter using breakpoints and checking the stack trace than just looking around in the code.
Well since you started the ego trip .....
Just what i thought. Another low end PC guy trying to tell high end Pc guys what up.
I had a 790I Q9450 OC 3.8 on air before. (last 6 months) 280 Sli/ 295/ 285 swapped in and out
I have a second 750i E8400 8800GTS OC (behind me)
my last PC before all that was a 680i 8800 GTS SLI
In the last 2 years I have Built 15 Gaming PC for me and other people in my clan, and for Money. (in lots of different configs)
I do it for my Gaming Clan . People that game every day, for the last 5 years of the clan...we have over 35+ members that i sit in a Teamspeak Channel, I hear and supporting every possible problem over 40 hours a week.
You think that someone with your hands on Exp with that Fossil you cal a Competitive gamer PC, you have more exp?
First off, Mini Dumps can be miss-leading.. (wolf in sheep's clothing) IT could be a Sound driver issue and the BSOD points to the Video driver.
If the Mini Dump Was the Root to all evil, and tracings it would fix the problem, Tech support people would not have such a hard job.. (aside from the people that cant find their desktop).
You Recommended the Same Support for this guy, that i did. You just read between the lines, and are holding onto one thing i stated before which was a below the belt shot, at one of the other guys.
I have been talking to Falice for over a week, you come in last min to an A & B convo and trying to call people out.?
TROUBLE SHOOTING IS WHAT ALL TECH SUPPORT AND SYSTEM BUILDERS DO FIRST. it has to be done anyways. on a Pre built.
trouble shooting is for isolateing the problems, at the same time make sure everything is up to date. (too make sure there are no problems in the future. and rule things out) THE MAIN reason, why i didnt tell him first about the Mini dump, was seeing how its hard for somone that has no idea, and through a fourm..ass
All of which I told him to get started, then Meet me on TS and I would walk him through the harder stuff. At the point his PC
is still busted, I told him since its just a Best Buy rig take it back. IF that's what he wanted. ( he is new to this, you have to take baby steps.)
Your A back seat driver, coming in adding your 2 cents.
How would trouble shooting and doing a system check hurt him or cost him money?..........what wrong with you.
You bring up your Schools Tech-support exp, Acting like you know cause they know?
Dual monitor's... do you have Dual monitors? NO.... I DO. Just another hearsay Guy acting big in someone Else's pants.
Programmer.... oh god. I cant stand when you people come into A tech battle thinking a background in dated C++ gives you knowledge of hardware. Half guys are useing Old configs, and have no clue about new High-end PC's. Manly cause Programmers are broke, and stuck in there old ways. My old boss was a Programmer who wrote a multi million dollar softwear and he couldnt tell his ass from pecker, when it comes to hardwear. I had to show him the ropes, to play LOTRO.
If that horrid graphics Dept, cant figure out how to do it with Nvidia.? (Can i go to school there...lol)
It was the easiest thing I have done to date, with 4 diff Setups and types of monitors.
All said and done....
you haven't built new or even close to new PC from scratch . so you wouldn't know the best way to isolate problems.
you have one busted GPU that can mach his system. in a busted PC.
and you think cause people around you are tech savvy that you are too.
And on top of it you come in here trying to pick a fight with a gaming SYSTEM builder that runs a gaming clan.
Go back you dealing with old Brick and swapping your GPU from your 3 year old dell.
And let the people that builds PCs from the ground up and stabilize... then OC clock and stabilize, then sell it people that i have to deal with daily so i cant mess up, Handle the Tech support.
And if you have ever build anything close to what We "Competitive" gamers run nowadays, you would understand how many BSOD can come up from start to OC finish, building a gaming rig.
PS: After you started name dropping Art departments, let me tell you. I'm I Profl Digital Painter using Wacom Cintq 21 inch digital art monitor in a dual setup. when i was younger (14 years ago). I worked as an art director for a comic-book company.... I have been running Tri-Star work stations (10K) Since the first Gloria GL GPU with 16mb of video ram...lol, and the first wacom Tablets. I have been offered Jobs By Liquid entertainment / DC/ Marvel of which i turned down... twice Also have been offered a job by Nintendo 2 years ago. IM a tattoo Artist now, and make more money without having to wear a White collar.. so beat it with Name dropping.
I
*sigh*
Geesh!
Looks like someone needs a Xanax/Ritalin and work out some of their insecurities. I'm like "OMG.. whats with all that nerd rage ??" Nobody attacked you.. please stay on the topic. This thread isn't about you!
I agree with Jack, unless you know your systems temperment, the mini-dumb is one of the best places to start when seeking help. The BSOD itself is a self help tool and the reason Windows does this. If the OP can post the pertinent info, we'll be able to assist/debug your problem with much more acuity.
Yes posting the information on the blue screen would be the most helpful to start because not all blue screen problems can be fixed by checking the minidump but since it appears to be somewhat software based its a good place to start.
As for dreadknot, I completely agree... he needs to tone it down. He's gone way past any constructive assistance. Its one reason why I rarely post on hardware or technical help threads on this forum anymore. Regardless if my information is helpful, his over the top antics and incoherent attacks just draw away from any true help you could give the OP.
All in all it doesn't make him look like he knows whats best but moreso that he's just trying to talk over anyone who has a different way to troubleshoot and it can easily get confusing for anyone with an honest question to get it answered correctly.
Most importantly to the OP, if its a name brand PC, it would be best to just cut to the chase and contact the mindless pantheon of technical support specialists at dell (or whichever builder you purchased from). They'll run you through a number of tests and try and recreate the problem or have you read the blue screen to them --- if you've already paid for the warranty you should use it.
Every now and then you might get lucky and they will be able to quickly assess the problem (if its common) and may even have a fix ready for you. If not, save your data, and return it or exchange it. Also, before you switch out any parts.. make sure it doesn't void the warranty!!
sigh* Geesh! Looks like someone needs a Xanax/Ritalin and work out some of their insecurities. I'm like "OMG.. whats with all that nerd rage ??" Nobody attacked you.. please stay on the topic. This thread isn't about you!
I agree with Jack, unless you know your systems temperment, the mini-dumb is one of the best places to start when seeking help. The BSOD itself is a self help tool and the reason Windows does this. If the OP can post the pertinent info, we'll be able to assist/debug your problem with much more acuity.
Yes posting the information on the blue screen would be the most helpful to start because not all blue screen problems can be fixed by checking the minidump but since it appears to be somewhat software based its a good place to start.
As for dreadknot, I completely agree... he needs to tone it down. He's gone way past any constructive assistance. Its one reason why I rarely post on hardware or technical help threads on this forum anymore. Regardless if my information is helpful, his over the top antics and incoherent attacks just draw away from any true help you could give the OP.
All in all it doesn't make him look like he knows whats best but moreso that he's just trying to talk over anyone who has a different way to troubleshoot and it can easily get confusing for anyone with an honest question to get it answered correctly.
Most importantly to the OP, if its a name brand PC, it would be best to just cut to the chase and contact the mindless pantheon of technical support specialists at dell (or whichever builder you purchased from). They'll run you through a number of tests and try and recreate the problem or have you read the blue screen to them --- if you've already paid for the warranty you should use it.
Every now and then you might get lucky and they will be able to quickly assess the problem (if its common) and may even have a fix ready for you. If not, save your data, and return it or exchange it. Also, before you switch out any parts.. make sure it doesn't void the warranty!!
Good luck!
you didnt read the whole post did you......
he came into there thread and told me that i was stupid...after that i opened fire...
so all your statements are pointless if you knew what was going on.
So with your whole post you did exactly what you frownd on...all so seeing that me and him stopped our fight.
"his over the top antics and incoherent attacks just draw away from any true help you could give the OP."
"Beauty is only is only skin deep..." said the AMD/ATI fan. "Blah..Thats just what ugly people say..." said the Intel/Nvidia fan. You want price / performance, use the dollar menu..
Comments
Not with the same system as you have, I was having similar problems on a system I built.
After 5 months of trouble shooting, I found that it was the hard drive.
Since I replaced it, I have not had any problems.
The closest thing to Dell I've got is a laptop only cuz it was on special offer lol, but that was hidiously slow, I then formatted the HD and now it runs about 50x faster, Dell pile a load of crap with the computer, like their own sidebar, google crap and anything else they can find. So that might be the solution.
Dread, I'll work on getting teamspeak tonight sometime, but it's mothersday, so I kinda have to put 100% into my wife today versus taking care of the puter. Yesterday was all about both of our moms...
Well, truth be told I only have Oblivion loaded onto the new puter and from what I've noticed it does it on that too but not as severely.
I can describe it as sudden onset of lag, where the game staggers for about 3-4 seconds, then it returns to full speed for about 20 seconds and back to staggering/ jerky fps.
I'm begging to think that it might be software related.
Well that's the amazing thing, this system didn't come with anything loaded on it except for Trendmicro security, that's all.
Well that's the amazing thing, this system didn't come with anything loaded on it except for Trendmicro security, that's all.
Well i will be on all day and night, the wife is out of town.. so i got off the hook...lol
Yea but there are hidden drivers and programs that pre built's Add. As well as a BS recovery drive. Packed full if shit ,Gamers dont need. Pre builts are setup for anyone with little PC skills can use them easily. "Plug and play" it's a nightmare.
One of these Days MS will make a OS that is striped down, and you could customize the Install based on what you want to do...ie Gaming, Networking, or Video/Sound editing. Windows 7 will be more bloat free, hopefully.
"Beauty is only is only skin deep..." said the AMD/ATI fan. "Blah..Thats just what ugly people say..." said the Intel/Nvidia fan. You want price / performance, use the dollar menu..
Sigh... reading this thread makes me a bit sad. When you have a bluescreen the very first thing any computer knowledgeable should suggest is checking out the minidumps. They are located in a folder called minidump in your windows folder. If you upload them I'll have a look at the them as see which module in which process raised the stop exception. Furthermore it's a good idea to look through the event viewer for any useful information.
To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be. BSoDs can be caused by every low level component of the OS, user mode software accessing low level modules and failing hardward.
Your temps aren't bad btw. My hd 4870 is between 70C and 75C all the time any game at default fan settings. No problem there what so ever. Furthermore to the people saying ATI drivers are crap you must be joking. You can just as easily find examples in any game with nVidia related driver issues. In fact the driver issues are present on both sides and the only thing an user should consider is the control panel and price/performance.
Recommending changing to nVidia to "solve" a problem which you haven't determined in any way whatsoever is caused by the GPU is so dumb I can't believe I'm actually reading this. Not trying to be a fanboy here, but seriously. It's like taking your Mercedes to a mechanic who then recommends you simply just get a BMW. Dumb as hell.
So to the OP: Upload the minidump located in the minidump folder in windows root folder and I'll have a look at them. From there I can most of the time point out where directing to the problem might be in.
Found it, but I'm unable to view it, or open it.
If you found it, you can just upload it to a filehost (e.g. rapidshare). Then I will have a look at them. If you want to check them out yourself, get either visual studio or debugging tools for windows. Make sure your symbols are correctly configured in either program.
I'm in IT myself Jack and you gave good advice. Hopefully you'll be able to help the OP with his issue. I just wanted to comment about what you posted above. I just found it funny because trading in your Merceds for a BMW actually would solve the problem in that case, and I know that's not what you were trying to say.
Should have said you went into the shop because you heard a clicking noise and the mechanic recommended replacing your entire transmission and getting a new engine without even looking at the car.
<----- Perpetual nitpicker.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Decided to give my own advice.
EXCHANGE IT, NOW! There is absolutely no reason you should be dealing with this problem out of the box. Take it back, get a new/different computer, enjoy your life. No reason to spend time trying to fix an issue like this with a brand new system.
Take out everything you put in yourself and put the stock components back in the computer... carefully. Whatever you do, do not tell the store you put your own hardware in the unit. This act already voided your maunfactuer's warranty.
One more thing. Dell still has a lot of hidden components running even if you don't see them. Next time I do a setup on a Dell I'll PM you with a list of things that I disable that are not needed and the correct way to disable the items.
Hopefully by then you will have a brand new working computer.
Oh one more thing I forgot to mention. Get rid of Trend Micro ASAP. It is one of the worst performing antivirus programs on the market and the Dells come with an outdated software version.
A good choice for your computer knowledge would be Kaspersky Internet Security. It's pretty much set and forget and I can send you the settings I use for my clients if you would like.
If you feel a bit more secure in your computer knowledge you could try Avira Premium Security suite which has a little higher detection rate than Kaspersky but you have to babysit it.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I'm in IT myself Jack and you gave good advice. Hopefully you'll be able to help the OP with his issue. I just wanted to comment about what you posted above. I just found it funny because trading in your Merceds for a BMW actually would solve the problem in that case, and I know that's not what you were trying to say.
Should have said you went into the shop because you heard a clicking noise and the mechanic recommended replacing your entire transmission and getting a new engine without even looking at the car.
<----- Perpetual nitpicker.
Yeah exactly. That example covers the whole guessing where it's wrong rather than diagnosing it and making an expensive repair for possibly no reason.
OP: Before giving in to returning your comp, you should let me have a look at the minidumps. Sometimes the problem is solved as easy as changing your firewall or installing new sound card drivers.
"To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be"
And yet you state right after...
" Before giving in to returning your comp, you should let me have a look at the minidumps. Sometimes the problem is solved as easy as changing your firewall or installing new sound card drivers."
Should take your own advice seeing how you havent read his mini dump yet..?
Also i already told him that....
if your stateing the "replace the card with Nvidia" post in this thread... that was more a poke in the ribs, to the ATI fans on the other thread, where this started. If you read on i told him i could walk him through the troubleshooting.
I have already told him about BSODs on the other thread.
I sugggested Replacing it if ALL else fails. and to try a Nvidia seeing how then Both of systems would match then and it would be easier for me to help him build it.
The point was sence its a Best Buy Pre built and has 10 day to return it.. that he could still change his build. If the game that he wants to play does not work on his hardware in its currnet driver state then a change would be in order. (if its a driver issue)
Read alittle more Before you call people out. And ATI Drivers A crap...nuff said. thats why I left ATI.
And reading the mini dump "could" help but not always.
What System you running?..Competitive gamer
"Beauty is only is only skin deep..." said the AMD/ATI fan. "Blah..Thats just what ugly people say..." said the Intel/Nvidia fan. You want price / performance, use the dollar menu..
"To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be"
And yet you state right after...
" Before giving in to returning your comp, you should let me have a look at the minidumps. Sometimes the problem is solved as easy as changing your firewall or installing new sound card drivers."
Should take your own advice seeing how you havent read his mini dump yet..?
As in you people for some reason would rather guess around than look at minidumps. And using two minutes here might save him a lot of trouble. It's logic. The most powerful way of diagnosing the problem that takes the shortest time = Memory dumps. There is no reason not to try it.
Also i already told him that....
if your stateing the "replace the card with Nvidia" post in this thread... that was more a poke in the ribs, to the ATI fans on the other thread, where this started. If you read on i told him i could walk him through the troubleshooting.
That doesn't change your first post -> You still made a dumb suggestion. Say instead in the first post that if you switch to nvidia you can help him.
I have already told him about BSODs on the other thread.
Good. The suggest it again here.
I sugggested Replacing it if ALL else fails. and to try a Nvidia seeing how then Both of systems would match then and it would be easier for me to help him build it.
The point was sence its a Best Buy Pre built and has 10 day to return it.. that he could still change his build. If the game that he wants to play does not work on his hardware in its currnet driver state then a change would be in order. (if its a driver issue)
BSoDs are NOT restricted to hardware and hardware drivers. Basically any low level operating software can do the trick.
Read alittle more Before you call people out. And ATI Drivers A crap...nuff said. thats why I left ATI.
Nuff said. Lol. I know just as many people with nvidia has BSoDs as people with ATI(actually more, but unlike you I know that's not the point. As stated in my post, you'll find problems with every graphics card in most games) And then ATI have a much superior interface and much superior features in it's control center. At least that's what the graphics department at my university say. Tried checking the difference between dual screen in ATI and nvidia? It's extreme. Having seen the inside business of many IT companies I see a lot of them using ATI alone for their superior dual screen support.
And reading the mini dump "could" help but not always.
If you follow your own suggestion and actually read my post, I said I could most of the time find the cause or at least get a good lead on it. Guessing around is probably the worst way to handle it, especially since checking those minidumps take 2 minutes and can very often point you in the right direction. What if it was his AV causing the troubles? Then he goes out and waste a lot of money replacing a perfectly working GPU. Reading the minidump initially is ALWAYS at ANY circumstance what you do if you are able to do so. Please refute that if you can. I'd love to see it.
What System you running?..Competitive gamer
AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (Planning an upgrade)
2 GB PC5400 DDR2 RAM
Yes you've guessed it, HIS HD 4870 512 MB
In the end there is no point discussing ATI vs Nvidia. Might as well discuss religion. But you must agree than before diagnosing the problem(when you are able to do so), changing hardware in hopes to stop a BSoD is incredibly stupid. It's not very different from when I'm programming. If my program throws an exception, unless I have a very good feeling what it based on the exception it throws(e.g. nullpointer exception, I should check for uninitialized objects or calling objects in an index that hasn't been put in that given collection), it's smarter using breakpoints and checking the stack trace than just looking around in the code.
"To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be"
And yet you state right after...
" Before giving in to returning your comp, you should let me have a look at the minidumps. Sometimes the problem is solved as easy as changing your firewall or installing new sound card drivers."
Should take your own advice seeing how you havent read his mini dump yet..?
As in you people for some reason would rather guess around than look at minidumps. And using two minutes here might save him a lot of trouble. It's logic. The most powerful way of diagnosing the problem that takes the shortest time = Memory dumps. There is no reason not to try it.
Also i already told him that....
if your stateing the "replace the card with Nvidia" post in this thread... that was more a poke in the ribs, to the ATI fans on the other thread, where this started. If you read on i told him i could walk him through the troubleshooting.
That doesn't change your first post -> You still made a dumb suggestion. Say instead in the first post that if you switch to nvidia you can help him.
I have already told him about BSODs on the other thread.
Good. The suggest it again here.
I sugggested Replacing it if ALL else fails. and to try a Nvidia seeing how then Both of systems would match then and it would be easier for me to help him build it.
The point was sence its a Best Buy Pre built and has 10 day to return it.. that he could still change his build. If the game that he wants to play does not work on his hardware in its currnet driver state then a change would be in order. (if its a driver issue)
BSoDs are NOT restricted to hardware and hardware drivers. Basically any low level operating software can do the trick.
Read alittle more Before you call people out. And ATI Drivers A crap...nuff said. thats why I left ATI.
Nuff said. Lol. I know just as many people with nvidia has BSoDs as people with ATI(actually more, but unlike you I know that's not the point. As stated in my post, you'll find problems with every graphics card in most games) And then ATI have a much superior interface and much superior features in it's control center. At least that's what the graphics department at my university say. Tried checking the difference between dual screen in ATI and nvidia? It's extreme. Having seen the inside business of many IT companies I see a lot of them using ATI alone for their superior dual screen support.
And reading the mini dump "could" help but not always.
If you follow your own suggestion and actually read my post, I said I could most of the time find the cause or at least get a good lead on it. Guessing around is probably the worst way to handle it, especially since checking those minidumps take 2 minutes and can very often point you in the right direction. What if it was his AV causing the troubles? Then he goes out and waste a lot of money replacing a perfectly working GPU. Reading the minidump initially is ALWAYS at ANY circumstance what you do if you are able to do so. Please refute that if you can. I'd love to see it.
What System you running?..Competitive gamer
AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (Planning an upgrade)
2 GB PC5400 DDR2 RAM
Yes you've guessed it, HIS HD 4870 512 MB
In the end there is no point discussing ATI vs Nvidia. Might as well discuss religion. But you must agree than before diagnosing the problem(when you are able to do so), changing hardware in hopes to stop a BSoD is incredibly stupid. It's not very different from when I'm programming. If my program throws an exception, unless I have a very good feeling what it based on the exception it throws(e.g. nullpointer exception, I should check for uninitialized objects or calling objects in an index that hasn't been put in that given collection), it's smarter using breakpoints and checking the stack trace than just looking around in the code.
Well since you started the ego trip .....
Just what i thought. Another low end PC guy trying to tell high end Pc guys what up.
Buddy your in a different realm.
AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (Planning an upgrade)
2 GB PC5400 DDR2 RAM
Yes you've guessed it, HIS HD 4870 512 MB
this is so old it has rings for a core.
this is what i run now
Antec 1200 full tower
i7 920 0C @ 4.2 on air
Coolmaster V8 CPU cooler
EVGA x58 SLI MB
Corsair DDR3 6 gigs 1600 9.9.9:24 1T
EVGA GTX 285 Stock IN SLI
WD Raptor X 150gig X2 Raid 0
Corsiar h1000watt PSU
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion.
Pioneer Elite A/V receiver.
Infinity Sound Speakers 5.1
Smasung 26 inch LCD syncmaster 1900x1200
Wacom Cintq 21 inch digital art monitor
logitech G15 keyboard
logitech MX laser mouse
logitech 5.1suround
(Vantage P 26,008)
I had a 790I Q9450 OC 3.8 on air before. (last 6 months) 280 Sli/ 295/ 285 swapped in and out
I have a second 750i E8400 8800GTS OC (behind me)
my last PC before all that was a 680i 8800 GTS SLI
In the last 2 years I have Built 15 Gaming PC for me and other people in my clan, and for Money. (in lots of different configs)
I do it for my Gaming Clan . People that game every day, for the last 5 years of the clan...we have over 35+ members that i sit in a Teamspeak Channel, I hear and supporting every possible problem over 40 hours a week.
You think that someone with your hands on Exp with that Fossil you cal a Competitive gamer PC, you have more exp?
First off, Mini Dumps can be miss-leading.. (wolf in sheep's clothing) IT could be a Sound driver issue and the BSOD points to the Video driver.
If the Mini Dump Was the Root to all evil, and tracings it would fix the problem, Tech support people would not have such a hard job.. (aside from the people that cant find their desktop).
You Recommended the Same Support for this guy, that i did. You just read between the lines, and are holding onto one thing i stated before which was a below the belt shot, at one of the other guys.
I have been talking to Falice for over a week, you come in last min to an A & B convo and trying to call people out.?
TROUBLE SHOOTING IS WHAT ALL TECH SUPPORT AND SYSTEM BUILDERS DO FIRST. it has to be done anyways. on a Pre built.
trouble shooting is for isolateing the problems, at the same time make sure everything is up to date. (too make sure there are no problems in the future. and rule things out) THE MAIN reason, why i didnt tell him first about the Mini dump, was seeing how its hard for somone that has no idea, and through a fourm..ass
All of which I told him to get started, then Meet me on TS and I would walk him through the harder stuff. At the point his PC
is still busted, I told him since its just a Best Buy rig take it back. IF that's what he wanted. ( he is new to this, you have to take baby steps.)
Your A back seat driver, coming in adding your 2 cents.
How would trouble shooting and doing a system check hurt him or cost him money?..........what wrong with you.
You bring up your Schools Tech-support exp, Acting like you know cause they know?
Dual monitor's... do you have Dual monitors? NO.... I DO. Just another hearsay Guy acting big in someone Else's pants.
Programmer.... oh god. I cant stand when you people come into A tech battle thinking a background in dated C++ gives you knowledge of hardware. Half guys are useing Old configs, and have no clue about new High-end PC's. Manly cause Programmers are broke, and stuck in there old ways. My old boss was a Programmer who wrote a multi million dollar softwear and he couldnt tell his ass from pecker, when it comes to hardwear. I had to show him the ropes, to play LOTRO.
If that horrid graphics Dept, cant figure out how to do it with Nvidia.? (Can i go to school there...lol)
It was the easiest thing I have done to date, with 4 diff Setups and types of monitors.
All said and done....
you haven't built new or even close to new PC from scratch . so you wouldn't know the best way to isolate problems.
you have one busted GPU that can mach his system. in a busted PC.
and you think cause people around you are tech savvy that you are too.
And on top of it you come in here trying to pick a fight with a gaming SYSTEM builder that runs a gaming clan.
Go back you dealing with old Brick and swapping your GPU from your 3 year old dell.
And let the people that builds PCs from the ground up and stabilize... then OC clock and stabilize, then sell it people that i have to deal with daily so i cant mess up, Handle the Tech support.
And if you have ever build anything close to what We "Competitive" gamers run nowadays, you would understand how many BSOD can come up from start to OC finish, building a gaming rig.
PS: After you started name dropping Art departments, let me tell you. I'm I Profl Digital Painter using Wacom Cintq 21 inch digital art monitor in a dual setup. when i was younger (14 years ago). I worked as an art director for a comic-book company.... I have been running Tri-Star work stations (10K) Since the first Gloria GL GPU with 16mb of video ram...lol, and the first wacom Tablets. I have been offered Jobs By Liquid entertainment / DC/ Marvel of which i turned down... twice Also have been offered a job by Nintendo 2 years ago. IM a tattoo Artist now, and make more money without having to wear a White collar.. so beat it with Name dropping.
I
"Beauty is only is only skin deep..." said the AMD/ATI fan. "Blah..Thats just what ugly people say..." said the Intel/Nvidia fan. You want price / performance, use the dollar menu..
"To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be"
And yet you state right after...
" Before giving in to returning your comp, you should let me have a look at the minidumps. Sometimes the problem is solved as easy as changing your firewall or installing new sound card drivers."
Should take your own advice seeing how you havent read his mini dump yet..?
As in you people for some reason would rather guess around than look at minidumps. And using two minutes here might save him a lot of trouble. It's logic. The most powerful way of diagnosing the problem that takes the shortest time = Memory dumps. There is no reason not to try it.
Also i already told him that....
if your stateing the "replace the card with Nvidia" post in this thread... that was more a poke in the ribs, to the ATI fans on the other thread, where this started. If you read on i told him i could walk him through the troubleshooting.
That doesn't change your first post -> You still made a dumb suggestion. Say instead in the first post that if you switch to nvidia you can help him.
I have already told him about BSODs on the other thread.
Good. The suggest it again here.
I sugggested Replacing it if ALL else fails. and to try a Nvidia seeing how then Both of systems would match then and it would be easier for me to help him build it.
The point was sence its a Best Buy Pre built and has 10 day to return it.. that he could still change his build. If the game that he wants to play does not work on his hardware in its currnet driver state then a change would be in order. (if its a driver issue)
BSoDs are NOT restricted to hardware and hardware drivers. Basically any low level operating software can do the trick.
Read alittle more Before you call people out. And ATI Drivers A crap...nuff said. thats why I left ATI.
Nuff said. Lol. I know just as many people with nvidia has BSoDs as people with ATI(actually more, but unlike you I know that's not the point. As stated in my post, you'll find problems with every graphics card in most games) And then ATI have a much superior interface and much superior features in it's control center. At least that's what the graphics department at my university say. Tried checking the difference between dual screen in ATI and nvidia? It's extreme. Having seen the inside business of many IT companies I see a lot of them using ATI alone for their superior dual screen support.
And reading the mini dump "could" help but not always.
If you follow your own suggestion and actually read my post, I said I could most of the time find the cause or at least get a good lead on it. Guessing around is probably the worst way to handle it, especially since checking those minidumps take 2 minutes and can very often point you in the right direction. What if it was his AV causing the troubles? Then he goes out and waste a lot of money replacing a perfectly working GPU. Reading the minidump initially is ALWAYS at ANY circumstance what you do if you are able to do so. Please refute that if you can. I'd love to see it.
What System you running?..Competitive gamer
AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (Planning an upgrade)
2 GB PC5400 DDR2 RAM
Yes you've guessed it, HIS HD 4870 512 MB
In the end there is no point discussing ATI vs Nvidia. Might as well discuss religion. But you must agree than before diagnosing the problem(when you are able to do so), changing hardware in hopes to stop a BSoD is incredibly stupid. It's not very different from when I'm programming. If my program throws an exception, unless I have a very good feeling what it based on the exception it throws(e.g. nullpointer exception, I should check for uninitialized objects or calling objects in an index that hasn't been put in that given collection), it's smarter using breakpoints and checking the stack trace than just looking around in the code.
Well since you started the ego trip .....
Just what i thought. Another low end PC guy trying to tell high end Pc guys what up.
Buddy your in a different realm.
AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (Planning an upgrade)
2 GB PC5400 DDR2 RAM
Yes you've guessed it, HIS HD 4870 512 MB
this is so old it has rings for a core.
this is what i run now
Antec 1200 full tower
i7 920 0C @ 4.2 on air
Coolmaster V8 CPU cooler
EVGA x58 SLI MB
Corsair DDR3 6 gigs 1600 9.9.9:24 1T
EVGA GTX 285 Stock IN SLI
WD Raptor X 150gig X2 Raid 0
Corsiar h1000watt PSU
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion.
Pioneer Elite A/V receiver.
Infinity Sound Speakers 5.1
Smasung 26 inch LCD syncmaster 1900x1200
Wacom Cintq 21 inch digital art monitor
logitech G15 keyboard
logitech MX laser mouse
logitech 5.1suround
(Vantage P 26,008)
I had a 790I Q9450 OC 3.8 on air before. (last 6 months) 280 Sli/ 295/ 285 swapped in and out
I have a second 750i E8400 8800GTS OC (behind me)
my last PC before all that was a 680i 8800 GTS SLI
Let's meassure dicks now? My computer runs everything at high settings at fine resolutions. Our computers have nothing to do with our knowledge. Besides it's been a while since I upgraded, where you clearly just upgraded your computer. But way to show your maturity 30 year old guy. Bashing a 20 year old student for not having upgraded his PC.
In the last 2 years I have Built 15 Gaming PC for me and other people in my clan, and for Money. (in lots of different configs)
I do it for my Gaming Clan . People that game every day, for the last 5 years of the clan...we have over 35+ members that i sit in a Teamspeak Channel, I hear and supporting every possible problem over 40 hours a week.
You think that someone with your hands on Exp with that Fossil you cal a Competitive gamer PC, you have more exp?
Please look at the profiles of pro-gamers. Few of them use all the newest hardware.
First off, Mini Dumps can be miss-leading.. (wolf in sheep's clothing) IT could be a Sound driver issue and the BSOD points to the Video driver.
If it's a sound driver issue but a video driver raising the flag you would almost always see it in the stack trace. Otherwise you can always dig deeper.
If the Mini Dump Was the Root to all evil, and tracings it would fix the problem, Tech support people would not have such a hard job.. (aside from the people that cant find their desktop).
You Recommended the Same Support for this guy, that i did. You just read between the lines, and are holding onto one thing i stated before which was a below the belt shot, at one of the other guys.
Didn't see you recommending analysing memory dumps in this thread.
I have been talking to Falice for over a week, you come in last min to an A & B convo and trying to call people out.?
Call fanboys as I see them
TROUBLE SHOOTING IS WHAT ALL TECH SUPPORT AND SYSTEM BUILDERS DO FIRST. it has to be done anyways. on a Pre built.
trouble shooting is for isolateing the problems, at the same time make sure everything is up to date. (too make sure there are no problems in the future. and rule things out) THE MAIN reason, why i didnt tell him first about the Mini dump, was seeing how its hard for somone that has no idea, and through a fourm..ass
That's the whole beauty of post mortem debugging. He can send me the dump and I can suggest the solution.
All of which I told him to get started, then Meet me on TS and I would walk him through the harder stuff. At the point his PC
is still busted, I told him since its just a Best Buy rig take it back. IF that's what he wanted. ( he is new to this, you have to take baby steps.)
Your A back seat driver, coming in adding your 2 cents.
How would trouble shooting and doing a system check hurt him or cost him money?..........what wrong with you.
You bring up your Schools Tech-support exp, Acting like you know cause they know?
Haven't talked about my school tech support dept.
Dual monitor's... do you have Dual monitors? NO.... I DO. Just another hearsay Guy acting big in someone Else's pants.
Do you know if I have dual monitors? No? Didn't even mention my monitor.
Programmer.... oh god. I cant stand when you people come into A tech battle thinking a background in dated C++ gives you knowledge of hardware. Half guys are use Old configs, and have no clue about new High-end PC's. Manly cause Programmers are broke, and stuck in there old ways. My old boss was a Programmer you Wrote a multi million dollor soft wear and he couldnt tell his ass from pecker when it comes to hardwear. I had to show him the ropes to play LOTRO.
Background in dated C++? You assumptious old bastard. I started with Java, learned C++ and I am using C# now. Not to mention database technology and assembly. I have much knowledge of new end hardware even though I don't use it. What a retarded thing to say. Buying new hardware doesn't mean you know shit about it. My config has absolutely nothing to do with my knowledge of hardware.
If that horrid graphics Dept, cant figure out how to do it with Nvidia.? (Can i go to school there...lol)
Again with the assumptions
It was the easiest thing I have done to date, with 4 diff Setups and types of monitors.
All said and done....
you haven't built new or even close to new PC from scratch . so you wouldn't know the best way to isolate problems.
All my computers have been build by my self from the scratch. Again you assume things you don't know about me. I could give a full spec list, but can't be assed to that when discussing with you
you have one busted GPU that can mach his system. in a busted PC.
and you think cause people around you are tech savvy that you are too.
And on top of it you come in here trying to pick a fight with a gaming SYSTEM builder that runs a gaming clan.
I run a clan too. Gaming system builder lol. Yeah, but that on your CV mate.
Go back you dealing with old Brick and swapping your GPU from your 3 year old dell.
Again, reality is different from your assumption. All my computers have been build from scratch by me
And let the people that builds PCs from the ground up and stabilize... then OC clock and stabilize, then sell it people that i have to deal with daily so i cant mess up, Handle the Tech support.
And if you have ever build anything close to what We "Competitive" gamers run nowadays, you would understand how many BSOD can come up from start to OC finish, building a gaming rig.
I see you don't really know anything about the competitive scene. You'll see very few professional gamers(not a pro, I just play various leagues for fun) with equipment equivalent to yours.
PS: After you started name dropping Art departments, let me tell you. I'm I Profl Digital Painter using Wacom Cintq 21 inch digital art monitor in a dual setup. when i was younger (14 years ago). I worked as an art director for a comic-book company.... I have been running Tri-Star work stations (10K) Since the first Gloria GL GPU with 16mb of video ram...lol, and the first wacom Tablets. I have been offered Jobs By Liquid entertainment / DC/ Marvel of which i turned down... twice Also have been offered a job by Nintendo 2 years ago. IM a tattoo Artist now, and make more money without having to wear a White collar.. so beat it with Name dropping.
Name dropping? Told about my school. Thats all. You're the list your entire CV guy. Perhaps I should list all the courses I've been thru? Because that's basically what I got.
My computer avgs 36 fps at the GPU benchmark on high settings with 1600x1200. It runs better than you'd think. But then again it's irrelevant to this discussion.
Yes I'm dropping in an adding my two cents, because memory dumps are incredibly important to check through. I'm not going to discuss with you anymore because you are hating bigot with lots of personal irrelevant and ignorant jabs at person you're discussing with. So not gonna reply to your next post as that is probably going to be a load about how my "ancient computer" somehow removes all my experience and knowledge. Idiot.
In the end I think your biggest mistake was buying a prebuild at bestbuy, prebuilds are all garbage, constructed from garbage components, the PSU's are usualy the WORST offenders, you should take a look at eh PSU, I have a feeling you might be suprised at what you see...
"To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be"
And yet you state right after...
" Before giving in to returning your comp, you should let me have a look at the minidumps. Sometimes the problem is solved as easy as changing your firewall or installing new sound card drivers."
Should take your own advice seeing how you havent read his mini dump yet..?
As in you people for some reason would rather guess around than look at minidumps. And using two minutes here might save him a lot of trouble. It's logic. The most powerful way of diagnosing the problem that takes the shortest time = Memory dumps. There is no reason not to try it.
Also i already told him that....
if your stateing the "replace the card with Nvidia" post in this thread... that was more a poke in the ribs, to the ATI fans on the other thread, where this started. If you read on i told him i could walk him through the troubleshooting.
That doesn't change your first post -> You still made a dumb suggestion. Say instead in the first post that if you switch to nvidia you can help him.
I have already told him about BSODs on the other thread.
Good. The suggest it again here.
I sugggested Replacing it if ALL else fails. and to try a Nvidia seeing how then Both of systems would match then and it would be easier for me to help him build it.
The point was sence its a Best Buy Pre built and has 10 day to return it.. that he could still change his build. If the game that he wants to play does not work on his hardware in its currnet driver state then a change would be in order. (if its a driver issue)
BSoDs are NOT restricted to hardware and hardware drivers. Basically any low level operating software can do the trick.
Read alittle more Before you call people out. And ATI Drivers A crap...nuff said. thats why I left ATI.
Nuff said. Lol. I know just as many people with nvidia has BSoDs as people with ATI(actually more, but unlike you I know that's not the point. As stated in my post, you'll find problems with every graphics card in most games) And then ATI have a much superior interface and much superior features in it's control center. At least that's what the graphics department at my university say. Tried checking the difference between dual screen in ATI and nvidia? It's extreme. Having seen the inside business of many IT companies I see a lot of them using ATI alone for their superior dual screen support.
And reading the mini dump "could" help but not always.
If you follow your own suggestion and actually read my post, I said I could most of the time find the cause or at least get a good lead on it. Guessing around is probably the worst way to handle it, especially since checking those minidumps take 2 minutes and can very often point you in the right direction. What if it was his AV causing the troubles? Then he goes out and waste a lot of money replacing a perfectly working GPU. Reading the minidump initially is ALWAYS at ANY circumstance what you do if you are able to do so. Please refute that if you can. I'd love to see it.
What System you running?..Competitive gamer
AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (Planning an upgrade)
2 GB PC5400 DDR2 RAM
Yes you've guessed it, HIS HD 4870 512 MB
In the end there is no point discussing ATI vs Nvidia. Might as well discuss religion. But you must agree than before diagnosing the problem(when you are able to do so), changing hardware in hopes to stop a BSoD is incredibly stupid. It's not very different from when I'm programming. If my program throws an exception, unless I have a very good feeling what it based on the exception it throws(e.g. nullpointer exception, I should check for uninitialized objects or calling objects in an index that hasn't been put in that given collection), it's smarter using breakpoints and checking the stack trace than just looking around in the code.
Well since you started the ego trip .....
Just what i thought. Another low end PC guy trying to tell high end Pc guys what up.
Buddy your in a different realm.
AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (Planning an upgrade)
2 GB PC5400 DDR2 RAM
Yes you've guessed it, HIS HD 4870 512 MB
this is so old it has rings for a core.
this is what i run now
Antec 1200 full tower
i7 920 0C @ 4.2 on air
Coolmaster V8 CPU cooler
EVGA x58 SLI MB
Corsair DDR3 6 gigs 1600 9.9.9:24 1T
EVGA GTX 285 Stock IN SLI
WD Raptor X 150gig X2 Raid 0
Corsiar h1000watt PSU
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion.
Pioneer Elite A/V receiver.
Infinity Sound Speakers 5.1
Smasung 26 inch LCD syncmaster 1900x1200
Wacom Cintq 21 inch digital art monitor
logitech G15 keyboard
logitech MX laser mouse
logitech 5.1suround
(Vantage P 26,008)
I had a 790I Q9450 OC 3.8 on air before. (last 6 months) 280 Sli/ 295/ 285 swapped in and out
I have a second 750i E8400 8800GTS OC (behind me)
my last PC before all that was a 680i 8800 GTS SLI
Let's meassure dicks now? My computer runs everything at high settings at fine resolutions. Our computers have nothing to do with our knowledge. Besides it's been a while since I upgraded, where you clearly just upgraded your computer. But way to show your maturity 30 year old guy. Bashing a 20 year old student for not having upgraded his PC.
(its funny how kids always talk about maturity. it has everything to do with knowledge.......Hands on exp what gets you a job. its like a kid in tech school for mechincs telling a race car mechinc that he isnt doing something right. while you have never owned and worked on a race car...... I posted my past and present of PC's, to show you in order for me to have built these PCs. i would have had to get them stable so i can OC them. Wouldnt i have to know what im doing? I learned the books then applied it, and came out with a working Product. Thats how the world works, and how you are judged.... by what you CAN do, not what you CAN say.)
In the last 2 years I have Built 15 Gaming PC for me and other people in my clan, and for Money. (in lots of different configs)
I do it for my Gaming Clan . People that game every day, for the last 5 years of the clan...we have over 35+ members that i sit in a Teamspeak Channel, I hear and supporting every possible problem over 40 hours a week.
You think that someone with your hands on Exp with that Fossil you cal a Competitive gamer PC, you have more exp?
Please look at the profiles of pro-gamers. Few of them use all the newest hardware.
I am one, i have been Ranked in the "top ten" in consoles and PC alike. From TWL to Game ladders.... even have proof
First off, Mini Dumps can be miss-leading.. (wolf in sheep's clothing) IT could be a Sound driver issue and the BSOD points to the Video driver.
If it's a sound driver issue but a video driver raising the flag you would almost always see it in the stack trace. Otherwise you can always dig deeper.
?????????????????????????
If the Mini Dump Was the Root to all evil, and tracings it would fix the problem, Tech support people would not have such a hard job.. (aside from the people that cant find their desktop).
You Recommended the Same Support for this guy, that i did. You just read between the lines, and are holding onto one thing i stated before which was a below the belt shot, at one of the other guys.
Didn't see you recommending analysing memory dumps in this thread.
Last Thread where this started, i told you. I asked why no one had asked him to get the BSOD error.
I have been talking to Falice for over a week, you come in last min to an A & B convo and trying to call people out.?
Call fanboys as I see them
Im a fan and proud of it.. but if you have followed my past in these forums... I fanboy what ever tech gets me to play games the best...I hold my loyalty to the game, not some BS company. If ATI could stay on the top for more than a year... i would go with them if they fixed the short comings.. but sence Intel/Nivida has been the strongest, im a fan. And your not an ATI...lol
TROUBLE SHOOTING IS WHAT ALL TECH SUPPORT AND SYSTEM BUILDERS DO FIRST. it has to be done anyways. on a Pre built.
trouble shooting is for isolateing the problems, at the same time make sure everything is up to date. (too make sure there are no problems in the future. and rule things out) THE MAIN reason, why i didnt tell him first about the Mini dump, was seeing how its hard for somone that has no idea, and through a fourm..ass
That's the whole beauty of post mortem debugging. He can send me the dump and I can suggest the solution.
OF which Somone had already offered. But you want to sword fight to find out whos better....
All of which I told him to get started, then Meet me on TS and I would walk him through the harder stuff. At the point his PC
is still busted, I told him since its just a Best Buy rig take it back. IF that's what he wanted. ( he is new to this, you have to take baby steps.)
Your A back seat driver, coming in adding your 2 cents.
How would trouble shooting and doing a system check hurt him or cost him money?..........what wrong with you.
You bring up your Schools Tech-support exp, Acting like you know cause they know?
Haven't talked about my school tech support dept.
OK.. your school's Art department.. i thought you could have worked that out in your Super brain.
Dual monitor's... do you have Dual monitors? NO.... I DO. Just another hearsay Guy acting big in someone Else's pants.
Do you know if I have dual monitors? No? Didn't even mention my monitor.
No.... you dont have it. I can tell from your system.
Programmer.... oh god. I cant stand when you people come into A tech battle thinking a background in dated C++ gives you knowledge of hardware. Half guys are use Old configs, and have no clue about new High-end PC's. Manly cause Programmers are broke, and stuck in there old ways. My old boss was a Programmer you Wrote a multi million dollor soft wear and he couldnt tell his ass from pecker when it comes to hardwear. I had to show him the ropes to play LOTRO.
Background in dated C++? You assumptious old bastard. I started with Java, learned C++ and I am using C# now. Not to mention database technology and assembly. I have much knowledge of new end hardware even though I don't use it. What a retarded thing to say. Buying new hardware doesn't mean you know shit about it. My config has absolutely nothing to do with my knowledge of hardware.
I talked about this already. I stated not only did buy new hardwear, i have been buyin new hardwear and building them weekly.
If that horrid graphics Dept, cant figure out how to do it with Nvidia.? (Can i go to school there...lol)
Again with the assumptions
I would put money on it....
It was the easiest thing I have done to date, with 4 diff Setups and types of monitors.
All said and done....
you haven't built new or even close to new PC from scratch . so you wouldn't know the best way to isolate problems.
All my computers have been build by my self from the scratch. Again you assume things you don't know about me. I could give a full spec list, but can't be assed to that when discussing with you
building a beebee gun is not the same as building a HK416
you have one busted GPU that can mach his system. in a busted PC.
and you think cause people around you are tech savvy that you are too.
And on top of it you come in here trying to pick a fight with a gaming SYSTEM builder that runs a gaming clan.
I run a clan too. Gaming system builder lol. Yeah, but that on your CV mate.
MMO clan? I Run a Mulit gaming clan...why it matters. Exp on all types of games and Systems... Not non Taxing MMOS (we will leave AOC DX10 out of this) WTF is CV? Yea A gaming System builder....Thats not a hard idea to grasp, on a Gaming website in the hardwear Forum. I could say the same about...Smart tech people?... in Denmark...?
Go back you dealing with old Brick and swapping your GPU from your 3 year old dell.
Again, reality is different from your assumption. All my computers have been build from scratch by me
building a legos houses, is not the same as building A 3 family Condo.
And let the people that builds PCs from the ground up and stabilize... then OC clock and stabilize, then sell it people that i have to deal with daily so i cant mess up, Handle the Tech support.
And if you have ever build anything close to what We "Competitive" gamers run nowadays, you would understand how many BSOD can come up from start to OC finish, building a gaming rig.
I see you don't really know anything about the competitive scene. You'll see very few professional gamers(not a pro, I just play various leagues for fun) with equipment equivalent to yours.
Answered this .... and takein other's exp and passing them off as your own, is what got you into this in the first place.
PS: After you started name dropping Art departments, let me tell you. I'm I Profl Digital Painter using Wacom Cintq 21 inch digital art monitor in a dual setup. when i was younger (14 years ago). I worked as an art director for a comic-book company.... I have been running Tri-Star work stations (10K) Since the first Gloria GL GPU with 16mb of video ram...lol, and the first wacom Tablets. I have been offered Jobs By Liquid entertainment / DC/ Marvel of which i turned down... twice Also have been offered a job by Nintendo 2 years ago. IM a tattoo Artist now, and make more money without having to wear a White collar.. so beat it with Name dropping.
Name dropping? Told about my school. Thats all. You're the list your entire CV guy. Perhaps I should list all the courses I've been thru? Because that's basically what I got.
(bringing up people At your school, Dropping the "university" to some how give your statement Credit... is name dropping. Sorry in my world its the same thing)
My computer avgs 36 fps at the GPU benchmark on high settings with 1600x1200. It runs better than you'd think. But then again it's irrelevant to this discussion.
What benchmark?.....and that is not a good frame rate. And thanks for setting ATI back with that statement...I know guys, im being an ass.
Yes I'm dropping in an adding my two cents, because memory dumps are incredibly important to check through. I'm not going to discuss with you anymore because you are hating bigot with lots of personal irrelevant and ignorant jabs at person you're discussing with. So not gonna reply to your next post as that is probably going to be a load about how my "ancient computer" somehow removes all my experience and knowledge. Idiot.
You want a tissue?
How about this You came at everone like a dick , and now " your taking your ball and going home"....lol
Now your insulted?
IF you call people out, expect it back .
You dont have any legs to stand on. Your learning... and have only used shit PCs
And when was that last time you saw someone that Is running a Pre built, that knows how to read a mini dump?. Im not even that good at it. But Trouble Shooting will solve the problems even if you dont know what it was...
..Your A nerd that tried forceing """Whaaah you dont know how to connect the flex compassitor to the wigglesnort whaahaha" to a guy that has no clue about level 3 tech support , when level 1 would have worked. You might know your programing but you dont know people.
You tell your Teacher that you know more than him?...I bet he would have told you the same thing i did. When you have years of "hands on Exp".. then you can talk shit. Its the way the world works, in any prof.
"Beauty is only is only skin deep..." said the AMD/ATI fan. "Blah..Thats just what ugly people say..." said the Intel/Nvidia fan. You want price / performance, use the dollar menu..
"To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be"
And yet you state right after...
" Before giving in to returning your comp, you should let me have a look at the minidumps. Sometimes the problem is solved as easy as changing your firewall or installing new sound card drivers."
Should take your own advice seeing how you havent read his mini dump yet..?
As in you people for some reason would rather guess around than look at minidumps. And using two minutes here might save him a lot of trouble. It's logic. The most powerful way of diagnosing the problem that takes the shortest time = Memory dumps. There is no reason not to try it.
Also i already told him that....
if your stateing the "replace the card with Nvidia" post in this thread... that was more a poke in the ribs, to the ATI fans on the other thread, where this started. If you read on i told him i could walk him through the troubleshooting.
That doesn't change your first post -> You still made a dumb suggestion. Say instead in the first post that if you switch to nvidia you can help him.
I have already told him about BSODs on the other thread.
Good. The suggest it again here.
I sugggested Replacing it if ALL else fails. and to try a Nvidia seeing how then Both of systems would match then and it would be easier for me to help him build it.
The point was sence its a Best Buy Pre built and has 10 day to return it.. that he could still change his build. If the game that he wants to play does not work on his hardware in its currnet driver state then a change would be in order. (if its a driver issue)
BSoDs are NOT restricted to hardware and hardware drivers. Basically any low level operating software can do the trick.
Read alittle more Before you call people out. And ATI Drivers A crap...nuff said. thats why I left ATI.
Nuff said. Lol. I know just as many people with nvidia has BSoDs as people with ATI(actually more, but unlike you I know that's not the point. As stated in my post, you'll find problems with every graphics card in most games) And then ATI have a much superior interface and much superior features in it's control center. At least that's what the graphics department at my university say. Tried checking the difference between dual screen in ATI and nvidia? It's extreme. Having seen the inside business of many IT companies I see a lot of them using ATI alone for their superior dual screen support.
And reading the mini dump "could" help but not always.
If you follow your own suggestion and actually read my post, I said I could most of the time find the cause or at least get a good lead on it. Guessing around is probably the worst way to handle it, especially since checking those minidumps take 2 minutes and can very often point you in the right direction. What if it was his AV causing the troubles? Then he goes out and waste a lot of money replacing a perfectly working GPU. Reading the minidump initially is ALWAYS at ANY circumstance what you do if you are able to do so. Please refute that if you can. I'd love to see it.
What System you running?..Competitive gamer
AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (Planning an upgrade)
2 GB PC5400 DDR2 RAM
Yes you've guessed it, HIS HD 4870 512 MB
In the end there is no point discussing ATI vs Nvidia. Might as well discuss religion. But you must agree than before diagnosing the problem(when you are able to do so), changing hardware in hopes to stop a BSoD is incredibly stupid. It's not very different from when I'm programming. If my program throws an exception, unless I have a very good feeling what it based on the exception it throws(e.g. nullpointer exception, I should check for uninitialized objects or calling objects in an index that hasn't been put in that given collection), it's smarter using breakpoints and checking the stack trace than just looking around in the code.
Well since you started the ego trip .....
Just what i thought. Another low end PC guy trying to tell high end Pc guys what up.
Buddy your in a different realm.
AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (Planning an upgrade)
2 GB PC5400 DDR2 RAM
Yes you've guessed it, HIS HD 4870 512 MB
this is so old it has rings for a core.
this is what i run now
Antec 1200 full tower
i7 920 0C @ 4.2 on air
Coolmaster V8 CPU cooler
EVGA x58 SLI MB
Corsair DDR3 6 gigs 1600 9.9.9:24 1T
EVGA GTX 285 Stock IN SLI
WD Raptor X 150gig X2 Raid 0
Corsiar h1000watt PSU
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion.
Pioneer Elite A/V receiver.
Infinity Sound Speakers 5.1
Smasung 26 inch LCD syncmaster 1900x1200
Wacom Cintq 21 inch digital art monitor
logitech G15 keyboard
logitech MX laser mouse
logitech 5.1suround
(Vantage P 26,008)
I had a 790I Q9450 OC 3.8 on air before. (last 6 months) 280 Sli/ 295/ 285 swapped in and out
I have a second 750i E8400 8800GTS OC (behind me)
my last PC before all that was a 680i 8800 GTS SLI
Let's meassure dicks now? My computer runs everything at high settings at fine resolutions. Our computers have nothing to do with our knowledge. Besides it's been a while since I upgraded, where you clearly just upgraded your computer. But way to show your maturity 30 year old guy. Bashing a 20 year old student for not having upgraded his PC.
(its funny how kids always talk about maturity. it has everything to do with knowledge.......Hands on exp what gets you a job. its like a kid in tech school for mechincs telling a race car mechinc that he isnt doing something right. while you have never owned and worked on a race car...... I posted my past and present of PC's, to show you in order for me to have built these PCs. i would have had to get them stable so i can OC them. Wouldnt i have to know what im doing? I learned the books then applied it, and came out with a working Product. Thats how the world works, and how you are judged.... by what you CAN do, not what you CAN say.)
When it comes to debugging I don't just sound smart, I am smart. Since you've built so many different system, I'm guessing you would say following statement is true: The difference between building a high end system and a low end system is slim. Only difference is sockets and CPU coolers really(of course depending on extra perphirals you might have to connect more hardware, but the way you do is still the same). OC'ing is any chapter were experience and knowledege about different systems are important, but that's not that case in this thread. It's about debugging a problem.
In the last 2 years I have Built 15 Gaming PC for me and other people in my clan, and for Money. (in lots of different configs)
I do it for my Gaming Clan . People that game every day, for the last 5 years of the clan...we have over 35+ members that i sit in a Teamspeak Channel, I hear and supporting every possible problem over 40 hours a week.
You think that someone with your hands on Exp with that Fossil you cal a Competitive gamer PC, you have more exp?
Please look at the profiles of pro-gamers. Few of them use all the newest hardware.
I am one, i have been Ranked in the "top ten" in consoles and PC alike. From TWL to Game ladders.... even have proof
Cool which games?
Look at the player profiles at SK. What type of hardware do they have? I'm telling you, few people have the type of hardware you do.
First off, Mini Dumps can be miss-leading.. (wolf in sheep's clothing) IT could be a Sound driver issue and the BSOD points to the Video driver.
If it's a sound driver issue but a video driver raising the flag you would almost always see it in the stack trace. Otherwise you can always dig deeper.
?????????????????????????
Saying that they can be misleading at first, but you can usually dig deep enough to find the true cause.
If the Mini Dump Was the Root to all evil, and tracings it would fix the problem, Tech support people would not have such a hard job.. (aside from the people that cant find their desktop).
You Recommended the Same Support for this guy, that i did. You just read between the lines, and are holding onto one thing i stated before which was a below the belt shot, at one of the other guys.
Didn't see you recommending analysing memory dumps in this thread.
Last Thread where this started, i told you. I asked why no one had asked him to get the BSOD error.
JUST LIKE ME. I didn't see anyone suggest getting the minidump or the BSoD errors which I why asked in that way. If you asked him like that in the previous thread then we basically agree man.
I have been talking to Falice for over a week, you come in last min to an A & B convo and trying to call people out.?
Call fanboys as I see them
Im a fan and proud of it.. but if you have followed my past in these forums... I fanboy what ever tech gets me to play games the best...I hold my loyalty to the game, not some BS company. If ATI could stay on the top for more than a year... i would go with them if they fixed the short comings.. but sence Intel/Nivida has been the strongest, im a fan. And your not an ATI...lol
I'm an ATI fanboy right now. Or more correctly put, I like annoying nVidia fanboys. But I'll always buy the product that gives me highest price/performance, which happened to be ATI last I bought hardware
TROUBLE SHOOTING IS WHAT ALL TECH SUPPORT AND SYSTEM BUILDERS DO FIRST. it has to be done anyways. on a Pre built.
trouble shooting is for isolateing the problems, at the same time make sure everything is up to date. (too make sure there are no problems in the future. and rule things out) THE MAIN reason, why i didnt tell him first about the Mini dump, was seeing how its hard for somone that has no idea, and through a fourm..ass
That's the whole beauty of post mortem debugging. He can send me the dump and I can suggest the solution.
OF which Somone had already offered. But you want to sword fight to find out whos better....
Didn't know. Didn't see it in this thread.
All of which I told him to get started, then Meet me on TS and I would walk him through the harder stuff. At the point his PC
is still busted, I told him since its just a Best Buy rig take it back. IF that's what he wanted. ( he is new to this, you have to take baby steps.)
Your A back seat driver, coming in adding your 2 cents.
How would trouble shooting and doing a system check hurt him or cost him money?..........what wrong with you.
You bring up your Schools Tech-support exp, Acting like you know cause they know?
Haven't talked about my school tech support dept.
OK.. your school's Art department.. i thought you could have worked that out in your Super brain.
Dual monitor's... do you have Dual monitors? NO.... I DO. Just another hearsay Guy acting big in someone Else's pants.
Do you know if I have dual monitors? No? Didn't even mention my monitor.
No.... you dont have it. I can tell from your system.
Programmer.... oh god. I cant stand when you people come into A tech battle thinking a background in dated C++ gives you knowledge of hardware. Half guys are use Old configs, and have no clue about new High-end PC's. Manly cause Programmers are broke, and stuck in there old ways. My old boss was a Programmer you Wrote a multi million dollor soft wear and he couldnt tell his ass from pecker when it comes to hardwear. I had to show him the ropes to play LOTRO.
Background in dated C++? You assumptious old bastard. I started with Java, learned C++ and I am using C# now. Not to mention database technology and assembly. I have much knowledge of new end hardware even though I don't use it. What a retarded thing to say. Buying new hardware doesn't mean you know shit about it. My config has absolutely nothing to do with my knowledge of hardware.
I talked about this already. I stated not only did buy new hardwear, i have been buyin new hardwear and building them weekly.
That doesn't change the fact that still know lots about new hardware even though I don't own it. I know about the architecture of core i7, and it's purpose.
If that horrid graphics Dept, cant figure out how to do it with Nvidia.? (Can i go to school there...lol)
Again with the assumptions
I would put money on it....
It was the easiest thing I have done to date, with 4 diff Setups and types of monitors.
All said and done....
you haven't built new or even close to new PC from scratch . so you wouldn't know the best way to isolate problems.
All my computers have been build by my self from the scratch. Again you assume things you don't know about me. I could give a full spec list, but can't be assed to that when discussing with you
building a beebee gun is not the same as building a HK416
As stated, the difference in building low end systems and high system aren't big. Just different cpus -> different sockets and coolers, but that's it.
you have one busted GPU that can mach his system. in a busted PC.
and you think cause people around you are tech savvy that you are too.
And on top of it you come in here trying to pick a fight with a gaming SYSTEM builder that runs a gaming clan.
I run a clan too. Gaming system builder lol. Yeah, but that on your CV mate.
MMO clan? I Run a Mulit gaming clan...why it matters. Exp on all types of games and Systems... Not non Taxing MMOS (we will leave AOC DX10 out of this) WTF is CV? Yea A gaming System builder....Thats not a hard idea to grasp, on a Gaming website in the hardwear Forum. I could say the same about...Smart tech people?... in Denmark...?
CoD4 clan. I don't consider MMO competitive since it's usually more about items than actually player skill
CV = resume(My bad. Forgot we have different words for. CV is a latin abbreviation, which is why I forgot)
Also Denmark is very advanced in the IT business for a country it's size. World known(which the business of course) IT faculties and IT companies. Played the Hitman games? IO interactive is danish
Go back you dealing with old Brick and swapping your GPU from your 3 year old dell.
Again, reality is different from your assumption. All my computers have been build from scratch by me
building a legos houses, is not the same as building A 3 family Condo.
As stated, and I'd bet you already know this but simply like to play the asshole, the difference in building low end and high end systems is very slim, and if you can do the one, you can do the other. Configuring them(selecting parts) is also different, but I can assure you I know enough of it to do it. The only reason I don't have a high end system is because I can't afford it right now (just bought a PS3 and a new cellphone)
Besides, it still runs all games very good. CoD4 which I play a lot is 100% stable a 125 FPS when playing with Promod(set my limit there to ensure I'm within PB restrictions). Farcry 2 High/Very Settings never under 50 fps at 1280x960.
And let the people that builds PCs from the ground up and stabilize... then OC clock and stabilize, then sell it people that i have to deal with daily so i cant mess up, Handle the Tech support.
And if you have ever build anything close to what We "Competitive" gamers run nowadays, you would understand how many BSOD can come up from start to OC finish, building a gaming rig.
I see you don't really know anything about the competitive scene. You'll see very few professional gamers(not a pro, I just play various leagues for fun) with equipment equivalent to yours.
Answered this .... and takein other's exp and passing them off as your own, is what got you into this in the first place.
All debugging knowledge i have is from my own experience.
PS: After you started name dropping Art departments, let me tell you. I'm I Profl Digital Painter using Wacom Cintq 21 inch digital art monitor in a dual setup. when i was younger (14 years ago). I worked as an art director for a comic-book company.... I have been running Tri-Star work stations (10K) Since the first Gloria GL GPU with 16mb of video ram...lol, and the first wacom Tablets. I have been offered Jobs By Liquid entertainment / DC/ Marvel of which i turned down... twice Also have been offered a job by Nintendo 2 years ago. IM a tattoo Artist now, and make more money without having to wear a White collar.. so beat it with Name dropping.
Name dropping? Told about my school. Thats all. You're the list your entire CV guy. Perhaps I should list all the courses I've been thru? Because that's basically what I got.
(bringing up people At your school, Dropping the "university" to some how give your statement Credit... is name dropping. Sorry in my world its the same thing)
My computer avgs 36 fps at the GPU benchmark on high settings with 1600x1200. It runs better than you'd think. But then again it's irrelevant to this discussion.
What benchmark?.....and that is not a good frame rate. And thanks for setting ATI back with that statement...I know guys, im being an ass.
Argh somehow I missed writing Crysis. Yeah in Crysis I'd consider that to be good.
Yes I'm dropping in an adding my two cents, because memory dumps are incredibly important to check through. I'm not going to discuss with you anymore because you are hating bigot with lots of personal irrelevant and ignorant jabs at person you're discussing with. So not gonna reply to your next post as that is probably going to be a load about how my "ancient computer" somehow removes all my experience and knowledge. Idiot.
You want a tissue?
I want you to realize that our computer differences has absolutely nothing to do with this. Just because I don't own a high end system, doesn't mean I don't have knowledge about them. Further more is that irrelevent in this case, since the same debugging techniques apply. If he had been OC'ing them and wanted advice on it, that's a different story. But this is not the case.
How about this You came at everone like a dick , and now " your taking your ball and going home"....lol
Now your insulted?
No. I just don't see the point in discussing with you if you keep clutching onto that irrevelent thing about your PC vs my PC.
IF you call people out, expect it back .
You dont have any legs to stand on. Your learning... and have only used shit PCs
Sigh. Try using something else than comparing PCs. It doesn't have any merit on this subject to be honest.
And when was that last time you saw someone that Is running a Pre built, that knows how to read a mini dump?. Im not even that good at it. But Trouble Shooting will solve the problems even if you dont know what it was...
..Your A nerd that tried forceing """Whaaah you dont know how to connect the flex compassitor to the wigglesnort whaahaha" to a guy that has no clue about level 3 tech support , when level 1 would have worked. You might know your programing but you dont know people.
I've helped lots of people, shit even my uncle who doesn't know shit about computers this way. That's the beauty of post mortem debugging. He can send me the dump and I can come with a suggestion. I've people on this site and lots of other sites by having them send me the crash dump even though they don't know anything about computers.
You tell your Teacher that you know more than him?...I bet he would have told you the same thing i did. When you have years of "hands on Exp".. then you can talk shit. Its the way the world works, in any prof.
What?
Dude I realize I don't think we are far of from each other in how we handle the technical problems, which is also why I decided to reply instead of ignoring this - That maybe we could get a decent troubleshooting/debugging discussion going rather than this mudthrowing.
I haven't seen the other thread, so if it has already been suggested, I can see that I should have kept quiet. But I haven't seen the other thread, which is why your replies seems strange to me, as for me it's only natural that you take the BSoD itself as the first source of information for the debugging of the problem. And I'm thinking you're agreeing. As stated, I didn't see the other thread, so when I come here I read about people who him to take his computer back and all sorts of stupid stuff, before at least just having a fast look at what could have caused it, I react the way I do.
If you reply to this, could you try to keep it relevant in regards to debugging, rather than insulting me and my system? Not because I care about what a guy on the net has to say about me (lol), but because there is no point to it, and because we could have a better discussing about debugging and trouble shooting. Of course, if you don't, it's not like I can find a lot of stuff to jab at you with, but tbh I'd rather just ignore you then.
Its all good.. Call anyone you want out but me...lol
i have built SO many PCs of late.. All realy high end. Shit i have spent 60h+ builling PC in the last 2 months. gone through every BSOD i can think of... then i had to OC my CPU to 4.2 on air..... testing it for a week..
So you can maybe see that i would be angry that somone came at me. that hasnt even done what i have been dealing with.
(no offence)
All though my Grammar is horrid. my hobby is debating. Vocaly i tear people down...im a little slow when it comes to turning it into writing. And im From Boston....we are Assholes. So i can get a bit rough....
"Beauty is only is only skin deep..." said the AMD/ATI fan. "Blah..Thats just what ugly people say..." said the Intel/Nvidia fan. You want price / performance, use the dollar menu..
Dreadknot I get you man. If I were helping a dude and a guy came calling me a retard and suggest doing something I had already suggested I'd probably react the same way. Take pride in what I do and obviously so do you. But as stated, didn't see anyone suggest checking out the BSoDs so I was like "WTF!?, why do all that when you at least just could have a look at them quick". But I'm repeating myself now.
But yeah, from your posts it was also obvious you've had a lot of time hands-on with computers(few people will discuss ram timings when talking about BSoDs - Important though), and this whole thing was basically me missing you giving the right suggestion in the first place, so ya, I'll take that on my bill.
Glad we could "settle" this in mannered way, because it's stupid that we are throwing mud at each other when we are basically both making valid suggestions.
About the grammar, yes I get what you mean, but as you can see from my posts I'm not in your face about it, because that is besides the point. Why discuss grammar? I fully understand what you write anyway, so that wouldn't make sense. Though if our "heated discussion" had continued I might have attacked your grammar at some point, but yeah... glad we avoided that crap cause as said before, it's all so fucking senseless.
Finally, what is the OPs status? Kinda hijacked the thread here lol.
"To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be"
And yet you state right after...
" Before giving in to returning your comp, you should let me have a look at the minidumps. Sometimes the problem is solved as easy as changing your firewall or installing new sound card drivers."
Should take your own advice seeing how you havent read his mini dump yet..?
As in you people for some reason would rather guess around than look at minidumps. And using two minutes here might save him a lot of trouble. It's logic. The most powerful way of diagnosing the problem that takes the shortest time = Memory dumps. There is no reason not to try it.
Also i already told him that....
if your stateing the "replace the card with Nvidia" post in this thread... that was more a poke in the ribs, to the ATI fans on the other thread, where this started. If you read on i told him i could walk him through the troubleshooting.
That doesn't change your first post -> You still made a dumb suggestion. Say instead in the first post that if you switch to nvidia you can help him.
I have already told him about BSODs on the other thread.
Good. The suggest it again here.
I sugggested Replacing it if ALL else fails. and to try a Nvidia seeing how then Both of systems would match then and it would be easier for me to help him build it.
The point was sence its a Best Buy Pre built and has 10 day to return it.. that he could still change his build. If the game that he wants to play does not work on his hardware in its currnet driver state then a change would be in order. (if its a driver issue)
BSoDs are NOT restricted to hardware and hardware drivers. Basically any low level operating software can do the trick.
Read alittle more Before you call people out. And ATI Drivers A crap...nuff said. thats why I left ATI.
Nuff said. Lol. I know just as many people with nvidia has BSoDs as people with ATI(actually more, but unlike you I know that's not the point. As stated in my post, you'll find problems with every graphics card in most games) And then ATI have a much superior interface and much superior features in it's control center. At least that's what the graphics department at my university say. Tried checking the difference between dual screen in ATI and nvidia? It's extreme. Having seen the inside business of many IT companies I see a lot of them using ATI alone for their superior dual screen support.
And reading the mini dump "could" help but not always.
If you follow your own suggestion and actually read my post, I said I could most of the time find the cause or at least get a good lead on it. Guessing around is probably the worst way to handle it, especially since checking those minidumps take 2 minutes and can very often point you in the right direction. What if it was his AV causing the troubles? Then he goes out and waste a lot of money replacing a perfectly working GPU. Reading the minidump initially is ALWAYS at ANY circumstance what you do if you are able to do so. Please refute that if you can. I'd love to see it.
What System you running?..Competitive gamer
AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (Planning an upgrade)
2 GB PC5400 DDR2 RAM
Yes you've guessed it, HIS HD 4870 512 MB
In the end there is no point discussing ATI vs Nvidia. Might as well discuss religion. But you must agree than before diagnosing the problem(when you are able to do so), changing hardware in hopes to stop a BSoD is incredibly stupid. It's not very different from when I'm programming. If my program throws an exception, unless I have a very good feeling what it based on the exception it throws(e.g. nullpointer exception, I should check for uninitialized objects or calling objects in an index that hasn't been put in that given collection), it's smarter using breakpoints and checking the stack trace than just looking around in the code.
Well since you started the ego trip .....
Just what i thought. Another low end PC guy trying to tell high end Pc guys what up.
Buddy your in a different realm.
AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (Planning an upgrade)
2 GB PC5400 DDR2 RAM
Yes you've guessed it, HIS HD 4870 512 MB
this is so old it has rings for a core.
this is what i run now
Antec 1200 full tower
i7 920 0C @ 4.2 on air
Coolmaster V8 CPU cooler
EVGA x58 SLI MB
Corsair DDR3 6 gigs 1600 9.9.9:24 1T
EVGA GTX 285 Stock IN SLI
WD Raptor X 150gig X2 Raid 0
Corsiar h1000watt PSU
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion.
Pioneer Elite A/V receiver.
Infinity Sound Speakers 5.1
Smasung 26 inch LCD syncmaster 1900x1200
Wacom Cintq 21 inch digital art monitor
logitech G15 keyboard
logitech MX laser mouse
logitech 5.1suround
(Vantage P 26,008)
I had a 790I Q9450 OC 3.8 on air before. (last 6 months) 280 Sli/ 295/ 285 swapped in and out
I have a second 750i E8400 8800GTS OC (behind me)
my last PC before all that was a 680i 8800 GTS SLI
In the last 2 years I have Built 15 Gaming PC for me and other people in my clan, and for Money. (in lots of different configs)
I do it for my Gaming Clan . People that game every day, for the last 5 years of the clan...we have over 35+ members that i sit in a Teamspeak Channel, I hear and supporting every possible problem over 40 hours a week.
You think that someone with your hands on Exp with that Fossil you cal a Competitive gamer PC, you have more exp?
First off, Mini Dumps can be miss-leading.. (wolf in sheep's clothing) IT could be a Sound driver issue and the BSOD points to the Video driver.
If the Mini Dump Was the Root to all evil, and tracings it would fix the problem, Tech support people would not have such a hard job.. (aside from the people that cant find their desktop).
You Recommended the Same Support for this guy, that i did. You just read between the lines, and are holding onto one thing i stated before which was a below the belt shot, at one of the other guys.
I have been talking to Falice for over a week, you come in last min to an A & B convo and trying to call people out.?
TROUBLE SHOOTING IS WHAT ALL TECH SUPPORT AND SYSTEM BUILDERS DO FIRST. it has to be done anyways. on a Pre built.
trouble shooting is for isolateing the problems, at the same time make sure everything is up to date. (too make sure there are no problems in the future. and rule things out) THE MAIN reason, why i didnt tell him first about the Mini dump, was seeing how its hard for somone that has no idea, and through a fourm..ass
All of which I told him to get started, then Meet me on TS and I would walk him through the harder stuff. At the point his PC
is still busted, I told him since its just a Best Buy rig take it back. IF that's what he wanted. ( he is new to this, you have to take baby steps.)
Your A back seat driver, coming in adding your 2 cents.
How would trouble shooting and doing a system check hurt him or cost him money?..........what wrong with you.
You bring up your Schools Tech-support exp, Acting like you know cause they know?
Dual monitor's... do you have Dual monitors? NO.... I DO. Just another hearsay Guy acting big in someone Else's pants.
Programmer.... oh god. I cant stand when you people come into A tech battle thinking a background in dated C++ gives you knowledge of hardware. Half guys are useing Old configs, and have no clue about new High-end PC's. Manly cause Programmers are broke, and stuck in there old ways. My old boss was a Programmer who wrote a multi million dollar softwear and he couldnt tell his ass from pecker, when it comes to hardwear. I had to show him the ropes, to play LOTRO.
If that horrid graphics Dept, cant figure out how to do it with Nvidia.? (Can i go to school there...lol)
It was the easiest thing I have done to date, with 4 diff Setups and types of monitors.
All said and done....
you haven't built new or even close to new PC from scratch . so you wouldn't know the best way to isolate problems.
you have one busted GPU that can mach his system. in a busted PC.
and you think cause people around you are tech savvy that you are too.
And on top of it you come in here trying to pick a fight with a gaming SYSTEM builder that runs a gaming clan.
Go back you dealing with old Brick and swapping your GPU from your 3 year old dell.
And let the people that builds PCs from the ground up and stabilize... then OC clock and stabilize, then sell it people that i have to deal with daily so i cant mess up, Handle the Tech support.
And if you have ever build anything close to what We "Competitive" gamers run nowadays, you would understand how many BSOD can come up from start to OC finish, building a gaming rig.
PS: After you started name dropping Art departments, let me tell you. I'm I Profl Digital Painter using Wacom Cintq 21 inch digital art monitor in a dual setup. when i was younger (14 years ago). I worked as an art director for a comic-book company.... I have been running Tri-Star work stations (10K) Since the first Gloria GL GPU with 16mb of video ram...lol, and the first wacom Tablets. I have been offered Jobs By Liquid entertainment / DC/ Marvel of which i turned down... twice Also have been offered a job by Nintendo 2 years ago. IM a tattoo Artist now, and make more money without having to wear a White collar.. so beat it with Name dropping.
I
*sigh*
Geesh!
Looks like someone needs a Xanax/Ritalin and work out some of their insecurities. I'm like "OMG.. whats with all that nerd rage ??" Nobody attacked you.. please stay on the topic. This thread isn't about you!
I agree with Jack, unless you know your systems temperment, the mini-dumb is one of the best places to start when seeking help. The BSOD itself is a self help tool and the reason Windows does this. If the OP can post the pertinent info, we'll be able to assist/debug your problem with much more acuity.
___________________________
- Knowledge is power, ive been in school for 28 years!
I haven't read the full thread.
But if yo are having problem with a computer, a branded one, and have the option to return it. Just do it, don't go fixing the problem by yourself, even if you could, and never do it by buying new hardware.
The manufacturer can both eat the cake and have it left.
It's a pain in the ass returning stuff, anyway I think that you should do it.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
"To basically everyone who is responding in this thread: Guessing without actually knowing anything about the problem is dumb. Rather than making fast(taking minutes here) analysis of the memory dumps you'll actually want to guess around what the problem could be"
And yet you state right after...
" Before giving in to returning your comp, you should let me have a look at the minidumps. Sometimes the problem is solved as easy as changing your firewall or installing new sound card drivers."
Should take your own advice seeing how you havent read his mini dump yet..?
As in you people for some reason would rather guess around than look at minidumps. And using two minutes here might save him a lot of trouble. It's logic. The most powerful way of diagnosing the problem that takes the shortest time = Memory dumps. There is no reason not to try it.
Also i already told him that....
if your stateing the "replace the card with Nvidia" post in this thread... that was more a poke in the ribs, to the ATI fans on the other thread, where this started. If you read on i told him i could walk him through the troubleshooting.
That doesn't change your first post -> You still made a dumb suggestion. Say instead in the first post that if you switch to nvidia you can help him.
I have already told him about BSODs on the other thread.
Good. The suggest it again here.
I sugggested Replacing it if ALL else fails. and to try a Nvidia seeing how then Both of systems would match then and it would be easier for me to help him build it.
The point was sence its a Best Buy Pre built and has 10 day to return it.. that he could still change his build. If the game that he wants to play does not work on his hardware in its currnet driver state then a change would be in order. (if its a driver issue)
BSoDs are NOT restricted to hardware and hardware drivers. Basically any low level operating software can do the trick.
Read alittle more Before you call people out. And ATI Drivers A crap...nuff said. thats why I left ATI.
Nuff said. Lol. I know just as many people with nvidia has BSoDs as people with ATI(actually more, but unlike you I know that's not the point. As stated in my post, you'll find problems with every graphics card in most games) And then ATI have a much superior interface and much superior features in it's control center. At least that's what the graphics department at my university say. Tried checking the difference between dual screen in ATI and nvidia? It's extreme. Having seen the inside business of many IT companies I see a lot of them using ATI alone for their superior dual screen support.
And reading the mini dump "could" help but not always.
If you follow your own suggestion and actually read my post, I said I could most of the time find the cause or at least get a good lead on it. Guessing around is probably the worst way to handle it, especially since checking those minidumps take 2 minutes and can very often point you in the right direction. What if it was his AV causing the troubles? Then he goes out and waste a lot of money replacing a perfectly working GPU. Reading the minidump initially is ALWAYS at ANY circumstance what you do if you are able to do so. Please refute that if you can. I'd love to see it.
What System you running?..Competitive gamer
AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (Planning an upgrade)
2 GB PC5400 DDR2 RAM
Yes you've guessed it, HIS HD 4870 512 MB
In the end there is no point discussing ATI vs Nvidia. Might as well discuss religion. But you must agree than before diagnosing the problem(when you are able to do so), changing hardware in hopes to stop a BSoD is incredibly stupid. It's not very different from when I'm programming. If my program throws an exception, unless I have a very good feeling what it based on the exception it throws(e.g. nullpointer exception, I should check for uninitialized objects or calling objects in an index that hasn't been put in that given collection), it's smarter using breakpoints and checking the stack trace than just looking around in the code.
Well since you started the ego trip .....
Just what i thought. Another low end PC guy trying to tell high end Pc guys what up.
Buddy your in a different realm.
AMD Athlon64 X2 6400+ (Planning an upgrade)
2 GB PC5400 DDR2 RAM
Yes you've guessed it, HIS HD 4870 512 MB
this is so old it has rings for a core.
this is what i run now
Antec 1200 full tower
i7 920 0C @ 4.2 on air
Coolmaster V8 CPU cooler
EVGA x58 SLI MB
Corsair DDR3 6 gigs 1600 9.9.9:24 1T
EVGA GTX 285 Stock IN SLI
WD Raptor X 150gig X2 Raid 0
Corsiar h1000watt PSU
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion.
Pioneer Elite A/V receiver.
Infinity Sound Speakers 5.1
Smasung 26 inch LCD syncmaster 1900x1200
Wacom Cintq 21 inch digital art monitor
logitech G15 keyboard
logitech MX laser mouse
logitech 5.1suround
(Vantage P 26,008)
I had a 790I Q9450 OC 3.8 on air before. (last 6 months) 280 Sli/ 295/ 285 swapped in and out
I have a second 750i E8400 8800GTS OC (behind me)
my last PC before all that was a 680i 8800 GTS SLI
In the last 2 years I have Built 15 Gaming PC for me and other people in my clan, and for Money. (in lots of different configs)
I do it for my Gaming Clan . People that game every day, for the last 5 years of the clan...we have over 35+ members that i sit in a Teamspeak Channel, I hear and supporting every possible problem over 40 hours a week.
You think that someone with your hands on Exp with that Fossil you cal a Competitive gamer PC, you have more exp?
First off, Mini Dumps can be miss-leading.. (wolf in sheep's clothing) IT could be a Sound driver issue and the BSOD points to the Video driver.
If the Mini Dump Was the Root to all evil, and tracings it would fix the problem, Tech support people would not have such a hard job.. (aside from the people that cant find their desktop).
You Recommended the Same Support for this guy, that i did. You just read between the lines, and are holding onto one thing i stated before which was a below the belt shot, at one of the other guys.
I have been talking to Falice for over a week, you come in last min to an A & B convo and trying to call people out.?
TROUBLE SHOOTING IS WHAT ALL TECH SUPPORT AND SYSTEM BUILDERS DO FIRST. it has to be done anyways. on a Pre built.
trouble shooting is for isolateing the problems, at the same time make sure everything is up to date. (too make sure there are no problems in the future. and rule things out) THE MAIN reason, why i didnt tell him first about the Mini dump, was seeing how its hard for somone that has no idea, and through a fourm..ass
All of which I told him to get started, then Meet me on TS and I would walk him through the harder stuff. At the point his PC
is still busted, I told him since its just a Best Buy rig take it back. IF that's what he wanted. ( he is new to this, you have to take baby steps.)
Your A back seat driver, coming in adding your 2 cents.
How would trouble shooting and doing a system check hurt him or cost him money?..........what wrong with you.
You bring up your Schools Tech-support exp, Acting like you know cause they know?
Dual monitor's... do you have Dual monitors? NO.... I DO. Just another hearsay Guy acting big in someone Else's pants.
Programmer.... oh god. I cant stand when you people come into A tech battle thinking a background in dated C++ gives you knowledge of hardware. Half guys are useing Old configs, and have no clue about new High-end PC's. Manly cause Programmers are broke, and stuck in there old ways. My old boss was a Programmer who wrote a multi million dollar softwear and he couldnt tell his ass from pecker, when it comes to hardwear. I had to show him the ropes, to play LOTRO.
If that horrid graphics Dept, cant figure out how to do it with Nvidia.? (Can i go to school there...lol)
It was the easiest thing I have done to date, with 4 diff Setups and types of monitors.
All said and done....
you haven't built new or even close to new PC from scratch . so you wouldn't know the best way to isolate problems.
you have one busted GPU that can mach his system. in a busted PC.
and you think cause people around you are tech savvy that you are too.
And on top of it you come in here trying to pick a fight with a gaming SYSTEM builder that runs a gaming clan.
Go back you dealing with old Brick and swapping your GPU from your 3 year old dell.
And let the people that builds PCs from the ground up and stabilize... then OC clock and stabilize, then sell it people that i have to deal with daily so i cant mess up, Handle the Tech support.
And if you have ever build anything close to what We "Competitive" gamers run nowadays, you would understand how many BSOD can come up from start to OC finish, building a gaming rig.
PS: After you started name dropping Art departments, let me tell you. I'm I Profl Digital Painter using Wacom Cintq 21 inch digital art monitor in a dual setup. when i was younger (14 years ago). I worked as an art director for a comic-book company.... I have been running Tri-Star work stations (10K) Since the first Gloria GL GPU with 16mb of video ram...lol, and the first wacom Tablets. I have been offered Jobs By Liquid entertainment / DC/ Marvel of which i turned down... twice Also have been offered a job by Nintendo 2 years ago. IM a tattoo Artist now, and make more money without having to wear a White collar.. so beat it with Name dropping.
I
*sigh*
Geesh!
Looks like someone needs a Xanax/Ritalin and work out some of their insecurities. I'm like "OMG.. whats with all that nerd rage ??" Nobody attacked you.. please stay on the topic. This thread isn't about you!
I agree with Jack, unless you know your systems temperment, the mini-dumb is one of the best places to start when seeking help. The BSOD itself is a self help tool and the reason Windows does this. If the OP can post the pertinent info, we'll be able to assist/debug your problem with much more acuity.
Yes posting the information on the blue screen would be the most helpful to start because not all blue screen problems can be fixed by checking the minidump but since it appears to be somewhat software based its a good place to start.
As for dreadknot, I completely agree... he needs to tone it down. He's gone way past any constructive assistance. Its one reason why I rarely post on hardware or technical help threads on this forum anymore. Regardless if my information is helpful, his over the top antics and incoherent attacks just draw away from any true help you could give the OP.
All in all it doesn't make him look like he knows whats best but moreso that he's just trying to talk over anyone who has a different way to troubleshoot and it can easily get confusing for anyone with an honest question to get it answered correctly.
Most importantly to the OP, if its a name brand PC, it would be best to just cut to the chase and contact the mindless pantheon of technical support specialists at dell (or whichever builder you purchased from). They'll run you through a number of tests and try and recreate the problem or have you read the blue screen to them --- if you've already paid for the warranty you should use it.
Every now and then you might get lucky and they will be able to quickly assess the problem (if its common) and may even have a fix ready for you. If not, save your data, and return it or exchange it. Also, before you switch out any parts.. make sure it doesn't void the warranty!!
Good luck!
Yes posting the information on the blue screen would be the most helpful to start because not all blue screen problems can be fixed by checking the minidump but since it appears to be somewhat software based its a good place to start.
As for dreadknot, I completely agree... he needs to tone it down. He's gone way past any constructive assistance. Its one reason why I rarely post on hardware or technical help threads on this forum anymore. Regardless if my information is helpful, his over the top antics and incoherent attacks just draw away from any true help you could give the OP.
All in all it doesn't make him look like he knows whats best but moreso that he's just trying to talk over anyone who has a different way to troubleshoot and it can easily get confusing for anyone with an honest question to get it answered correctly.
Most importantly to the OP, if its a name brand PC, it would be best to just cut to the chase and contact the mindless pantheon of technical support specialists at dell (or whichever builder you purchased from). They'll run you through a number of tests and try and recreate the problem or have you read the blue screen to them --- if you've already paid for the warranty you should use it.
Every now and then you might get lucky and they will be able to quickly assess the problem (if its common) and may even have a fix ready for you. If not, save your data, and return it or exchange it. Also, before you switch out any parts.. make sure it doesn't void the warranty!!
Good luck!
you didnt read the whole post did you......
he came into there thread and told me that i was stupid...after that i opened fire...
so all your statements are pointless if you knew what was going on.
So with your whole post you did exactly what you frownd on...all so seeing that me and him stopped our fight.
"his over the top antics and incoherent attacks just draw away from any true help you could give the OP."
"Beauty is only is only skin deep..." said the AMD/ATI fan. "Blah..Thats just what ugly people say..." said the Intel/Nvidia fan. You want price / performance, use the dollar menu..
