What I found interesting is this statement which I totally agree with: It is only fair that evidence supporting intelligent design or creation be presented to students alongside of evolutionary theory, especially in public schools which receive funding from taxpayers who are on both sides of the issue. Also, no one is being forced to believe in God or adopt a particular religion so there is no true violation of separation of church and state.
Does that mean we should include the creation stories of ALL religions?
Great point.
Religious folk are all for teaching about religion in school so long as it is their religion being taught. Can you imagine how fast they'd complain if they're kids were taught about Islam, Judaism, Sikhism, Taoism, Confucianism, Hindu, Buddhist, Humanism, Scientology, Satanism, or Wiccan religion?
Well for one thing Christianty, Judaism, and Islam all share the same creation story. Buddhism and Confucianism are more a way of thought then of a way of religion. The others well they would vary but would have in no way the support to get thier religion into textbooks if they came about.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
This is not a flame bait thread. All I am pointing out is that no one can prove that some intelligent being did not create the life we know. Everything is based on theory.
Yes, I am a Christian, but I am a very logical person also. All I see is theory...no proof, yet I am condemned believing in Intelligent Design. Why am I getting bashed.
None of you even came close to proving that a supreme being didn't guide us to where we are today, that's all. This is a very controversial subject, I agree, but if it weren't, would we still be debating about it?
Actually, there is no point debating it, because this whole thread is base purely on theory. If you look at the chances of Evolution, Intelligent Design comes out ahead.
This is not a flame bait thread. All I am pointing out is that no one can prove that some intelligent being did not create the life we know. Everything is based on theory. Yes, I am a Christian, but I am a very logical person also. All I see is theory...no proof, yet I am condemned believing in Intelligent Design. Why am I getting bashed. None of you even came close to proving that a supreme being didn't guide us to where we are today, that's all. This is a very controversial subject, I agree, but if it weren't, would we still be debating about it? Actually, there is no point debating it, because this whole thread is base purely on theory. If you look at the chances of Evolution, Intelligent Design comes out ahead. So, with that said, There is a God.
Did you miss my tail post? Shall I wag that tail infront of your face again?
I agree that no one can prove that some intelligent being did not create life as we know it, but what is the main issue here, is whether the story of Adam and Eve is historical fact or just a fable. This is not really even an issue of whether a Deity created life on earth but more the method in which that Deity created life on earth. A person that believes in intelligent design can also believe in evolution but only if evolution is viewed as an aspect of God's design. People will tell you that this is not the case but what they actually know about their God is too limited for them to be so certain - ask them what's Gods favorite colour and rather than say "I don't know" they'll make a guess and that guess is where you are now, but rather than admit it was a bad guess you're standing by it as if it came from the mouth of your God.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
This is not a flame bait thread. All I am pointing out is that no one can prove that some intelligent being did not create the life we know. Everything is based on theory. Yes, I am a Christian, but I am a very logical person also. All I see is theory...no proof, yet I am condemned believing in Intelligent Design. Why am I getting bashed. None of you even came close to proving that a supreme being didn't guide us to where we are today, that's all. This is a very controversial subject, I agree, but if it weren't, would we still be debating about it? Actually, there is no point debating it, because this whole thread is base purely on theory. If you look at the chances of Evolution, Intelligent Design comes out ahead. So, with that said, There is a God.
No outfctrl, you are not a logical person.
You have a misunderstanding about evolution, in fact, you do not even understand the basics of evolution, nor do you understand the differences between "Faith" and "Scientific theory".
Multiple people, including myself, have pointed you towards sources where you can learn both the differences between the two and the basics. You have checked none of these and if you did, you didn't learn anything from it.
That's not "logical", thats not open minded. Thats being closed minded and ignorant. You have very little to no interest in actually educating yourself about the subject.
I'm sure you're going to quote me and say "OMGZ, THATS NOT TRUE!!!!" but honnestly, anybody who has read your posts in this thread knows that this is true,
Everything you have posted here proves that you believe what you want to believe, not where the actual evidence points to. Because the evidence points, beyond any reasonable doubt, towards evolution. There is no dispute among scientist, hence I pointed out that over 99% do not believe in creationism, Evolution is just as much accepted as Gravity is, in fact, our entire biology system is build around Evolution.
If you're going to continue to ignore theories and evidence that conflict with your own personal faith and If you're going to keep ignoring the difference between a religious faith and a scientific theory, you will never be educated.
And you still have apparently avoided learning just what being a scientific theory entails. In short, you are still afraid of being wrong, but you aren't afraid of opening your mouth and looking like a fool on an internet forum. Why?
Yes, I am a Christian, but I am a very logical person also.
You are not a logical person. As with most people like yourself, you seem to feel that saying something makes it true. You have done nothing but make illogical and ignorant arguments in your entire time posting here.
All I see is theory...no proof,
And you are still ignorant about science's methods, what a scientific theory is, and the massive amount of evidence for evolution.
yet I am condemned believing in Intelligent Design.
While I have little respect for people who buy into the anti-science that is ID, I do not condemn you for it. I condemn you for your inability to be rational, your insistence that your beliefs are logical or supported by science, and your constant aversion to actually learning.
Why am I getting bashed.
Willfull ignorance is generally looked down upon.
None of you even came close to proving that a supreme being didn't guide us to where we are today, that's all.
This is a very controversial subject, I agree, but if it weren't, would we still be debating about it?
Actually, there is no point debating it, because this whole thread is base purely on theory.
See above multitude of posts detailing what exactly a scientific theory is.
If you look at the chances of Evolution, Intelligent Design comes out ahead.
Please cite your source. Please explain how you came to the conclusion that the probability of evolution or intelligent design occurring can be quantified or compared.
I ask this jokingly, of course, because you can't. This is an impossible task. Your statement is, forgive the language, bullshit.
Evolution is a scientifically backed process. It has been observed, tested, and proven many times over. Thousands of different sources of information point towards evolution. The only reason there is any doubt about evolution is because people refuse to learn.
Intelligent Design is, by its very nature, anti-scientific. It is a conclusion that supports itself with backwards reasoning and absolutely zero actual evidence. It is not a scientific theory. It is not scientific. It is not realistic.
So, with that said, There is a God.
He seems to be doing a terrible job if that's the case.
All I see is regurtitated misinformation and logically fallacious reasoning.
Please just stop posting, and start learning.
You are intellectually infantile. That is something that should be embarrassing for somebody who is nearly sixty years old.
Is the Universe fine tuned for life? Lets look at it like this:
If the Universe was fine tuned, it would imply that life is a common attribute, in the sense that as a Universe is fine tuned, the probability of life approaches 1. In other words, we should see evidence of life in the Universe. However, if life is common how does this comply with the notion of a being creating humans in its own image? What about the rest of the life?
Nevertheless, what do we see? We see the opposite: the probability of life in the Universe approaches 0. That implies that life is not a common attribute, thus the Universe was not fine tuned. If the Universe was not fine tuned the implication follows there is no creator/designer/whathaveyou.
Furthermore, on the notion of macro and micro evolution. There is not a single difference. These two notions arrise because proponents of a creator could no longer deny the overwhelming evidence of evolution so they came up with the notion of micro and macro so they could avoid being willing ignorant and be seen as denying the obvious.
At any rate in they way they are defined, macro = micro + time. Let me put it this way, how can you walk a mile, or a hundred miles, without taking one step at a time?
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man. -- Bertrand Russell
This is not a flame bait thread. All I am pointing out is that no one can prove that some intelligent being did not create the life we know. Everything is based on theory. Yes, I am a Christian, but I am a very logical person also. All I see is theory...no proof, yet I am condemned believing in Intelligent Design. Why am I getting bashed. None of you even came close to proving that a supreme being didn't guide us to where we are today, that's all. This is a very controversial subject, I agree, but if it weren't, would we still be debating about it? Actually, there is no point debating it, because this whole thread is base purely on theory. If you look at the chances of Evolution, Intelligent Design comes out ahead. So, with that said, There is a God.
I just had to comment....
Theory= based on logic, observation, science.
God= faith= based on a book written a who knows when, written by peoples 'claims'. And I will tell ya something...there was thousands of years of religion and stories of how mankind was made long before your precious bible came to be. I would be not be incorrect in saying Zeus farted us into existance. After all...prove to me that your God is the creator and not Zeus?
Anyone who honestly takes the book of Genesis literally cannot be taken seriously.
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
Allot of you gave me all these links, I will look at them all. There are allot of them. Lets look at this.
Fossils exhibit design. Living body plans exhibit design. Micro-biological features such as DNA exhibit design. The evidentiary question is not a question of the existence of design in nature, but the cause of design in nature.
Only two causes are available to explain the design evident in nature: unintelligent causes and intelligent causes. Unintelligent causes include the natural actions of physics and chemistry, operating alone by natural laws in space and time. Unintelligent causes cannot produce true design, so you "Darwinists" dismiss the evident design in nature as merely the "appearance" of design.
To say that Nature displays intelligence doesn't make you a Christian fundamentalist. Einstein said as much, and a fascinating theory called the anthropic principle has been seriously considered by Stephen Hawking, among others.
The anthropic principle tries to understand how a random universe could evolve to produce DNA, and ultimately human intelligence. To say the DNA happened randomly is like saying that a hurricane could blow through a junk yard and produce a jet plane.
Allot of you gave me all these links, I will look at them all. There are allot of them. Lets look at this. Fossils exhibit design. Living body plans exhibit design. Micro-biological features such as DNA exhibit design. The evidentiary question is not a question of the existence of design in nature, but the cause of design in nature.
Only two causes are available to explain the design evident in nature: unintelligent causes and intelligent causes. Unintelligent causes include the natural actions of physics and chemistry, operating alone by natural laws in space and time. Unintelligent causes cannot produce true design, so you "Darwinists" dismiss the evident design in nature as merely the "appearance" of design. To say that Nature displays intelligence doesn't make you a Christian fundamentalist. Einstein said as much, and a fascinating theory called the anthropic principle has been seriously considered by Stephen Hawking, among others. The anthropic principle tries to understand how a random universe could evolve to produce DNA, and ultimately human intelligence. To say the DNA happened randomly is like saying that a hurricane could blow through a junk yard and produce a jet plane.
Watch the videos I posted, they are on the first page. Seriously, just watch it.
There is no randomness involved in evolution, It's not by "chance".
This is not a flame bait thread. All I am pointing out is that no one can prove that some intelligent being did not create the life we know. Everything is based on theory. Yes, I am a Christian, but I am a very logical person also. All I see is theory...no proof, yet I am condemned believing in Intelligent Design. Why am I getting bashed. None of you even came close to proving that a supreme being didn't guide us to where we are today, that's all. This is a very controversial subject, I agree, but if it weren't, would we still be debating about it? Actually, there is no point debating it, because this whole thread is base purely on theory. If you look at the chances of Evolution, Intelligent Design comes out ahead. So, with that said, There is a God.
I just had to comment....
Theory= based on logic, observation, science.
God= faith= based on a book written a who knows when, written by peoples 'claims'. And I will tell ya something...there was thousands of years of religion and stories of how mankind was made long before your precious bible came to be. I would be not be incorrect in saying Zeus farted us into existance. After all...prove to me that your God is the creator and not Zeus?
Easy, Zeus was not the creator of the world, rather he gained control of it from his father Cronos, who in turn had put order in the primordial chaos that was existence and everything was possible.
But I am just being a nerd right now, sorry^^
A friend is not him who provides support during your failures.A friend is the one that cheers you during your successes.
Allot of you gave me all these links, I will look at them all. There are allot of them. Lets look at this. Fossils exhibit design. Living body plans exhibit design. Micro-biological features such as DNA exhibit design. The evidentiary question is not a question of the existence of design in nature, but the cause of design in nature.
Only two causes are available to explain the design evident in nature: unintelligent causes and intelligent causes. Unintelligent causes include the natural actions of physics and chemistry, operating alone by natural laws in space and time. Unintelligent causes cannot produce true design, so you "Darwinists" dismiss the evident design in nature as merely the "appearance" of design. To say that Nature displays intelligence doesn't make you a Christian fundamentalist. Einstein said as much, and a fascinating theory called the anthropic principle has been seriously considered by Stephen Hawking, among others. The anthropic principle tries to understand how a random universe could evolve to produce DNA, and ultimately human intelligence. To say the DNA happened randomly is like saying that a hurricane could blow through a junk yard and produce a jet plane.
You're right. To say DNA happened randomly would be to say that something highly improbable occurred.
I suppose it is unfortunate, then, that life is neither random nor unlikely. It simply requires adequate conditions. In an infinite universe, adequate conditions are abundant.
Above your final statement you make an argument of semantics -- stating that nature shows design. Nature is a self-propagating 'design.' More accurately, it is self-replicating chaos resembling order.
In fact, whenever somebody says there is design evident in nature, I cannot help but wonder what nature these people are looking at. Vestigial appendages, disease, parasites,.. nature is hardly 'designed' (or if it is, its designer has a terrible sense of humor). Fossils and DNA give great support to evolution anyways. In fact, it's just about impossible to actually understand genetics and not realize that evolution is factual.
Try to keep an open mind, and do realize that your religion and evolution are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
It would be healthy to accept the fact that your religion may have some things wrong.
You can still believe in god and at the same time accept the truths of what science has discovered. Science certainly hasn't (and never will) 'disprove' god -- though as we learn more his believed inflluence may lessen.
I have never forced my views or my faith on anyone. Its just, I look around and there is so much order that I cannot believe it just happened. Someone or something has had to organize it from the beginning of time.
Form the big bang to the primordial soup to human intelligence, it couldnt have just been a coincidence, it just couldnt.
I have never forced my views or my faith on anyone. Its just, I look around and there is so much order that I cannot believe it just happened. Someone or something has had to organize it from the beginning of time. Form the big bang to the primordial soup to human intelligence, it couldnt have just been a coincidence, it just couldnt.
Evolution doesn't say it has been a coincidence. If you think Evolution says this is all a coincidence you have a very misunderstanding of the theory of evolution.
Seriously outfctrl, you need to drop this "it just couldn't have happened by chance". Nobody is saying it just happened by chance.
I have never forced my views or my faith on anyone. Its just, I look around and there is so much order that I cannot believe it just happened. Someone or something has had to organize it from the beginning of time. Form the big bang to the primordial soup to human intelligence, it couldnt have just been a coincidence, it just couldnt.
It's important to realize the scale upon which the universe exists. Fourteen billion years is a lot of time. It's hard to wrap your head around even a billion years. Our planet has had about four and a half billion years for life to develop. We've only been here in our present form for a fraction of that, around 100,000 years.
We are complex, but there's nothing impossible or even unlikely about our development. We're here because we're here instead of somewhere else. The univers is massive, and has existed for a massive amount of time. Most things that are possible within the physical systems of the universe are likely going to occur. Humanity is more than probable.
Game, This Biologist tends to disagree with you on Evolution. He belives it was by chance. LINK Everyone believes in something different. What is the truth??
The article summarizes what he says improperly.
He says "Genes organize and mutate by random chance..." which is true.
Evolution is not random chance, however. It is the result of the interaction between these random mutations and the system within they exist. When realized on the scale at which these things operate (a simply massive number of cells in a simply massive number of reproductions of a simply massive number of lifeforms) that evolution becomes quite determinant.
If you insist that Outfctrl watch the videos in YOUR links, then I ask you to do the same. Watch the videos in MY link provided on page 2 I think. The SCIENCE discussed in those videos completely throws our your theories on macroevolution. And what's so facinating, are the results of the tests. They point directly to the Bible.
I didn't believe either for a very long time. I constantly questioned the existence of God. The easiest way, was all the way back when I was 10, laying on a trampoline looking up at the stars, and asked myself....who created God?
It wasn't until I was in my mid twenties that I stumbled across these videos. I began watcing the first, thinking it was some crap my family was trying to get me to watch to "save me". What I found was surprising. I had been taking a scientific approach at all the religious crap I was fed all my life, BUT, I was having to add evolution into the factor every time. Nothing made sense about religion, nor what the Bible said.
Once you begin to realize that the theory of evolution (macroevolution) is a complete pile of crap, and start to JUST CONSIDER that what the Bible says MIGHT be true, then you can open your eyes, and everything begins to make sense.
That is what those videos did for me.
So please, if you must insist that Ourfctrl watch your videos, then I must insist you watch mine. It's only fair.
Comments
Y'all be postin' in a troll thread.
Having seen outofctrl post many times before, I'm quite sure he is serious.
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Having seen outofctrl post many times before, I'm quite sure he is serious.
The way he argues just seems way too idioctic. Maybe I just haven't dealt with enough batshit insane Christians for this to seem believable?
Having seen outofctrl post many times before, I'm quite sure he is serious.
The way he argues just seems way too idioctic. Maybe I just haven't dealt with enough batshit insane Christians for this to seem believable?
Look at his posting history.
I wouldn't say that he's a 'batshit insane Christian.' Moreso that he's simply a victim of culture.
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Does that mean we should include the creation stories of ALL religions?
Great point.
Religious folk are all for teaching about religion in school so long as it is their religion being taught. Can you imagine how fast they'd complain if they're kids were taught about Islam, Judaism, Sikhism, Taoism, Confucianism, Hindu, Buddhist, Humanism, Scientology, Satanism, or Wiccan religion?
Well for one thing Christianty, Judaism, and Islam all share the same creation story. Buddhism and Confucianism are more a way of thought then of a way of religion. The others well they would vary but would have in no way the support to get thier religion into textbooks if they came about.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
This is not a flame bait thread. All I am pointing out is that no one can prove that some intelligent being did not create the life we know. Everything is based on theory.
Yes, I am a Christian, but I am a very logical person also. All I see is theory...no proof, yet I am condemned believing in Intelligent Design. Why am I getting bashed.
None of you even came close to proving that a supreme being didn't guide us to where we are today, that's all. This is a very controversial subject, I agree, but if it weren't, would we still be debating about it?
Actually, there is no point debating it, because this whole thread is base purely on theory. If you look at the chances of Evolution, Intelligent Design comes out ahead.
So, with that said, There is a God.
Did you miss my tail post? Shall I wag that tail infront of your face again?
I agree that no one can prove that some intelligent being did not create life as we know it, but what is the main issue here, is whether the story of Adam and Eve is historical fact or just a fable. This is not really even an issue of whether a Deity created life on earth but more the method in which that Deity created life on earth. A person that believes in intelligent design can also believe in evolution but only if evolution is viewed as an aspect of God's design. People will tell you that this is not the case but what they actually know about their God is too limited for them to be so certain - ask them what's Gods favorite colour and rather than say "I don't know" they'll make a guess and that guess is where you are now, but rather than admit it was a bad guess you're standing by it as if it came from the mouth of your God.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
Blue... No yello...AAAAAAAAaaaaaaaa.......
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
No outfctrl, you are not a logical person.
You have a misunderstanding about evolution, in fact, you do not even understand the basics of evolution, nor do you understand the differences between "Faith" and "Scientific theory".
Multiple people, including myself, have pointed you towards sources where you can learn both the differences between the two and the basics. You have checked none of these and if you did, you didn't learn anything from it.
That's not "logical", thats not open minded. Thats being closed minded and ignorant. You have very little to no interest in actually educating yourself about the subject.
I'm sure you're going to quote me and say "OMGZ, THATS NOT TRUE!!!!" but honnestly, anybody who has read your posts in this thread knows that this is true,
Everything you have posted here proves that you believe what you want to believe, not where the actual evidence points to. Because the evidence points, beyond any reasonable doubt, towards evolution. There is no dispute among scientist, hence I pointed out that over 99% do not believe in creationism, Evolution is just as much accepted as Gravity is, in fact, our entire biology system is build around Evolution.
If you're going to continue to ignore theories and evidence that conflict with your own personal faith and If you're going to keep ignoring the difference between a religious faith and a scientific theory, you will never be educated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof
And you still have apparently avoided learning just what being a scientific theory entails. In short, you are still afraid of being wrong, but you aren't afraid of opening your mouth and looking like a fool on an internet forum. Why?
You are not a logical person. As with most people like yourself, you seem to feel that saying something makes it true. You have done nothing but make illogical and ignorant arguments in your entire time posting here.
And you are still ignorant about science's methods, what a scientific theory is, and the massive amount of evidence for evolution.
While I have little respect for people who buy into the anti-science that is ID, I do not condemn you for it. I condemn you for your inability to be rational, your insistence that your beliefs are logical or supported by science, and your constant aversion to actually learning.
Willfull ignorance is generally looked down upon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof
See above multitude of posts detailing what exactly a scientific theory is.
Please cite your source. Please explain how you came to the conclusion that the probability of evolution or intelligent design occurring can be quantified or compared.
I ask this jokingly, of course, because you can't. This is an impossible task. Your statement is, forgive the language, bullshit.
Evolution is a scientifically backed process. It has been observed, tested, and proven many times over. Thousands of different sources of information point towards evolution. The only reason there is any doubt about evolution is because people refuse to learn.
Intelligent Design is, by its very nature, anti-scientific. It is a conclusion that supports itself with backwards reasoning and absolutely zero actual evidence. It is not a scientific theory. It is not scientific. It is not realistic.
He seems to be doing a terrible job if that's the case.
All I see is regurtitated misinformation and logically fallacious reasoning.
Please just stop posting, and start learning.
You are intellectually infantile. That is something that should be embarrassing for somebody who is nearly sixty years old.
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Is the Universe fine tuned for life? Lets look at it like this:
If the Universe was fine tuned, it would imply that life is a common attribute, in the sense that as a Universe is fine tuned, the probability of life approaches 1. In other words, we should see evidence of life in the Universe. However, if life is common how does this comply with the notion of a being creating humans in its own image? What about the rest of the life?
Nevertheless, what do we see? We see the opposite: the probability of life in the Universe approaches 0. That implies that life is not a common attribute, thus the Universe was not fine tuned. If the Universe was not fine tuned the implication follows there is no creator/designer/whathaveyou.
Furthermore, on the notion of macro and micro evolution. There is not a single difference. These two notions arrise because proponents of a creator could no longer deny the overwhelming evidence of evolution so they came up with the notion of micro and macro so they could avoid being willing ignorant and be seen as denying the obvious.
At any rate in they way they are defined, macro = micro + time. Let me put it this way, how can you walk a mile, or a hundred miles, without taking one step at a time?
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man. -- Bertrand Russell
I just had to comment....
Theory= based on logic, observation, science.
God= faith= based on a book written a who knows when, written by peoples 'claims'. And I will tell ya something...there was thousands of years of religion and stories of how mankind was made long before your precious bible came to be. I would be not be incorrect in saying Zeus farted us into existance. After all...prove to me that your God is the creator and not Zeus?
Anyone who honestly takes the book of Genesis literally cannot be taken seriously.
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
Allot of you gave me all these links, I will look at them all. There are allot of them. Lets look at this.
Fossils exhibit design. Living body plans exhibit design. Micro-biological features such as DNA exhibit design. The evidentiary question is not a question of the existence of design in nature, but the cause of design in nature.
Only two causes are available to explain the design evident in nature: unintelligent causes and intelligent causes. Unintelligent causes include the natural actions of physics and chemistry, operating alone by natural laws in space and time. Unintelligent causes cannot produce true design, so you "Darwinists" dismiss the evident design in nature as merely the "appearance" of design.
To say that Nature displays intelligence doesn't make you a Christian fundamentalist. Einstein said as much, and a fascinating theory called the anthropic principle has been seriously considered by Stephen Hawking, among others.
The anthropic principle tries to understand how a random universe could evolve to produce DNA, and ultimately human intelligence. To say the DNA happened randomly is like saying that a hurricane could blow through a junk yard and produce a jet plane.
Watch the videos I posted, they are on the first page. Seriously, just watch it.
There is no randomness involved in evolution, It's not by "chance".
I just had to comment....
Theory= based on logic, observation, science.
God= faith= based on a book written a who knows when, written by peoples 'claims'. And I will tell ya something...there was thousands of years of religion and stories of how mankind was made long before your precious bible came to be. I would be not be incorrect in saying Zeus farted us into existance. After all...prove to me that your God is the creator and not Zeus?
Easy, Zeus was not the creator of the world, rather he gained control of it from his father Cronos, who in turn had put order in the primordial chaos that was existence and everything was possible.
But I am just being a nerd right now, sorry^^
A friend is not him who provides support during your failures.A friend is the one that cheers you during your successes.
I wil do that Game.
You're right. To say DNA happened randomly would be to say that something highly improbable occurred.
I suppose it is unfortunate, then, that life is neither random nor unlikely. It simply requires adequate conditions. In an infinite universe, adequate conditions are abundant.
Above your final statement you make an argument of semantics -- stating that nature shows design. Nature is a self-propagating 'design.' More accurately, it is self-replicating chaos resembling order.
In fact, whenever somebody says there is design evident in nature, I cannot help but wonder what nature these people are looking at. Vestigial appendages, disease, parasites,.. nature is hardly 'designed' (or if it is, its designer has a terrible sense of humor). Fossils and DNA give great support to evolution anyways. In fact, it's just about impossible to actually understand genetics and not realize that evolution is factual.
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I appreciate that.
Try to keep an open mind, and do realize that your religion and evolution are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
It would be healthy to accept the fact that your religion may have some things wrong.
You can still believe in god and at the same time accept the truths of what science has discovered. Science certainly hasn't (and never will) 'disprove' god -- though as we learn more his believed inflluence may lessen.
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I have never forced my views or my faith on anyone. Its just, I look around and there is so much order that I cannot believe it just happened. Someone or something has had to organize it from the beginning of time.
Form the big bang to the primordial soup to human intelligence, it couldnt have just been a coincidence, it just couldnt.
Evolution doesn't say it has been a coincidence. If you think Evolution says this is all a coincidence you have a very misunderstanding of the theory of evolution.
Seriously outfctrl, you need to drop this "it just couldn't have happened by chance". Nobody is saying it just happened by chance.
Game,
This Biologist tends to disagree with you on Evolution. He belives it was by chance.
LINK
Everyone believes in something different. What is the truth??
That's fine, that's human. It's logically fallacious, but human.
It's important to realize the scale upon which the universe exists. Fourteen billion years is a lot of time. It's hard to wrap your head around even a billion years. Our planet has had about four and a half billion years for life to develop. We've only been here in our present form for a fraction of that, around 100,000 years.
We are complex, but there's nothing impossible or even unlikely about our development. We're here because we're here instead of somewhere else. The univers is massive, and has existed for a massive amount of time. Most things that are possible within the physical systems of the universe are likely going to occur. Humanity is more than probable.
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The article summarizes what he says improperly.
He says "Genes organize and mutate by random chance..." which is true.
Evolution is not random chance, however. It is the result of the interaction between these random mutations and the system within they exist. When realized on the scale at which these things operate (a simply massive number of cells in a simply massive number of reproductions of a simply massive number of lifeforms) that evolution becomes quite determinant.
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Tykero and Gameloading.......
If you insist that Outfctrl watch the videos in YOUR links, then I ask you to do the same. Watch the videos in MY link provided on page 2 I think. The SCIENCE discussed in those videos completely throws our your theories on macroevolution. And what's so facinating, are the results of the tests. They point directly to the Bible.
I didn't believe either for a very long time. I constantly questioned the existence of God. The easiest way, was all the way back when I was 10, laying on a trampoline looking up at the stars, and asked myself....who created God?
It wasn't until I was in my mid twenties that I stumbled across these videos. I began watcing the first, thinking it was some crap my family was trying to get me to watch to "save me". What I found was surprising. I had been taking a scientific approach at all the religious crap I was fed all my life, BUT, I was having to add evolution into the factor every time. Nothing made sense about religion, nor what the Bible said.
Once you begin to realize that the theory of evolution (macroevolution) is a complete pile of crap, and start to JUST CONSIDER that what the Bible says MIGHT be true, then you can open your eyes, and everything begins to make sense.
That is what those videos did for me.
So please, if you must insist that Ourfctrl watch your videos, then I must insist you watch mine. It's only fair.