I don't have a problem with creating a game casuals can play but I hate this new thing of dumbing down the game so theres nothing for the hardcore and casuals can get everything. .... Why should everyone be able to see everything? Alot of people complain about content they wont see but why should they? I just want a game where the time I put into it makes me different and unique so I can feel happy about my character which is important for an mmorpg.
I get what you are saying.
I highlighted one part in particular.
It was this design philosophy that killed PotBS.
I said almost exactly that in the PotBS forums pre-release.
They made the world 'small' because people complained the world would be too big.
In fact they made it so small you could see and do almost everything in a month or two. Guess how long people stayed subbed for?
I think the term "hardcore" together with "game" is an oxymoron, but thats me.
Special Forces are hardcore, ER staff are hardcore, Surface Rescue Divers are hardcore, Chuck Norris is HARDCORE.
Computer games and gamers hardcore? Not so much!
Back on topic. Realise that you so called (using the term loosely here) "hardcore" gamers are just a miniscule and shrinking percentage of the current gamer community, while us "others" that game for entertainment and not a second life is driving the market. Thus developers aim towards the big market because it is there the muulah is. Is this a good or bad thing, dunno? For me who games MUCH, not hardcore, but rather for entertainment, its good because of the wide range of games and genres to chose from. For you, the "hardcore", probably bad but I think your going extinct anyway so who cares
This might have been mentioned before but human psyche works as follows. Not evryone can succeed, are MMOS turning into Communism online? Not everyone can become an Elit football player and not everyone can become a mathematical genius. The same must apply to an MMO world if we have nobody to look up to and be awe struck by, the games hype will just fade away... Reason sports are so big is that the those modern gladiators do what most of us only dream about doing. Same logic goes for MMOs, if the Industry dosent catch on soon, and continue to dumb down these games, the mmo market will crash and burn... Watch and see all of you that dont agree with me... Games need a challenge to spurr people on... It also ceeps the casuals playing as they have somthing/someone to look up to.. Not everyone can be the Alpha dog...its not in the human natur.
That is totally irrelevant corollary.
Billion dollar sports is a showcase, a ground for bigger billion dollar gambling. You are not expect to play with Cobby Bryant, or Lebon James, you are expected to grab a popcorn while turning on the TV. PERIOD.
MMOs are not there for you to watch, unless you enjoy the YouTubes only. MMOs are mass participation games, like the morning stretching exercise in the park outside our house. The elderly, the kids. You do not expect such social activities to require the bulky mass and charging power of O'Neal plus the dexterity of Cobby Bryant.
How much I wish to be hardcore and drive one of the formula-one engines. Dream on --> /bonk myself.
I think the term "hardcore" together with "game" is an oxymoron, but thats me. Special Forces are hardcore, ER staff are hardcore, Surface Rescue Divers are hardcore, Chuck Norris is HARDCORE. Computer games and gamers hardcore? Not so much! Back on topic. Realise that you so called (using the term loosely here) "hardcore" gamers are just a miniscule and shrinking percentage of the current gamer community, while us "others" that game for entertainment and not a second life is driving the market. Thus developers aim towards the big market because it is there the muulah is. Is this a good or bad thing, dunno? For me who games MUCH, not hardcore, but rather for entertainment, its good because of the wide range of games and genres to chose from. For you, the "hardcore", probably bad but I think your going extinct anyway so who cares
Hehe funny view.
Can't say that the hardcore players are dying off, but they sure are outnumbered with the massive expansion in gamer population. Back in the modem days, a few thousands in a game is a lot, and there is just UO. We only got to know some 40-50 active players at any time. Many of these play in a more "hardcore" manner.
Now we have hundreds of servers with this many games, and up to millions in each game. A few thousand hardcores spread over a few hundred servers = 10 per server if they are all online at once, sure you feel they are extinct. They are swarmed by the thousands less hardcore players.
What is hardcore, I dunno. There are as many views as there are thinking heads.
I don't have a problem with creating a game casuals can play but I hate this new thing of dumbing down the game so theres nothing for the hardcore and casuals can get everything. We've seen this with World of Warcraft where theres nothing really anymore for the hardcore to differentiate themselves from the casual players. Now everyone can have everything and things like epics arn't special anymore and you miss that sense of omg he's badass. In SWG for example there was so much you could do to make yourselves different and the main reason for that is they didn't spoon feed the content to you and you had to work it out for yourselves. The suprising satistics I found of how few people did the things that I did, even other hardcore players and it made me feel proud. However if the game is too easy and thousands upon thousands of people have done that same thing, then you just don't care about doing anything. Even in TF2 now they looked at how many people had the unlocked weapons and only a small percentage of players did so they decided to change the system to random so everyone had the chance. I just think thats dumb because the hardcore player has to have something to be different from the rest and if everyone had them then they arn't special anymore. Why should everyone be able to see everything? Alot of people complain about content they wont see but why should they? I just want a game where the time I put into it makes me different and unique so I can feel happy about my character which is important for an mmorpg.
John,
I gotta tell ya I empathize with you I really do man. I try to echo the same sentiment to everyone I meet. If something bothers you don't let it get you out of your mode. Take it as motivation to do your own thing that will give you that satisfaction that you are talking about.
Everyone has something different that works for them in their lives. Some people have experiences like yourself and turn around and make their own MMO and it all started with something similar to you. They weren't happy with trends in something in the market and they got tired because things weren't hardcore or dumbed down too much whatever the case may be.
The point is don't let it get you down my brotha use it as fuel to motivate you and make your own destiny. Whatever makes you happy you can do it. Some people might reply to this post in a snarky manner but my intent is sincere...go out there and do what makes John happy and if that means you create the next Deluxe 247 MMO then go for it.
I think the term "hardcore" together with "game" is an oxymoron, but thats me. Special Forces are hardcore, ER staff are hardcore, Surface Rescue Divers are hardcore, Chuck Norris is HARDCORE. Computer games and gamers hardcore? Not so much! Back on topic. Realise that you so called (using the term loosely here) "hardcore" gamers are just a miniscule and shrinking percentage of the current gamer community, while us "others" that game for entertainment and not a second life is driving the market. Thus developers aim towards the big market because it is there the muulah is. Is this a good or bad thing, dunno? For me who games MUCH, not hardcore, but rather for entertainment, its good because of the wide range of games and genres to chose from. For you, the "hardcore", probably bad but I think your going extinct anyway so who cares
Hehe funny view.
Can't say that the hardcore players are dying off, but they sure are outnumbered with the massive expansion in gamer population. Back in the modem days, a few thousands in a game is a lot, and there is just UO. We only got to know some 40-50 active players at any time. Many of these play in a more "hardcore" manner.
Now we have hundreds of servers with this many games, and up to millions in each game. A few thousand hardcores spread over a few hundred servers = 10 per server if they are all online at once, sure you feel they are extinct. They are swarmed by the thousands less hardcore players.
What is hardcore, I dunno. There are as many views as there are thinking heads.
I agree that the definition of a hardcore gamer is fuzzy. Even though I don't consider myself hardcore in the gaming department (might in other ) I'm not in to WoW:esque themepark games but rather games with deep complex game systems and open harsh worlds, like original SWG and AC. I too am concerned about the current market alignment to "easy" games, but I also think that there are games in the works to fulfill the needs for those who wan't more complexity and depth to them. Fallen Earth, Earth Rise, MO, etc. I think never before has there been so many promising games in the works, both MMOS and SP games, so fear not, I think all of us, hardcore or not, will have plenty to spend our time and money on in the coming years
I don't have a problem with creating a game casuals can play but I hate this new thing of dumbing down the game so theres nothing for the hardcore and casuals can get everything. We've seen this with World of Warcraft where theres nothing really anymore for the hardcore to differentiate themselves from the casual players. Now everyone can have everything and things like epics arn't special anymore and you miss that sense of omg he's badass. In SWG for example there was so much you could do to make yourselves different and the main reason for that is they didn't spoon feed the content to you and you had to work it out for yourselves. The suprising satistics I found of how few people did the things that I did, even other hardcore players and it made me feel proud. However if the game is too easy and thousands upon thousands of people have done that same thing, then you just don't care about doing anything. Even in TF2 now they looked at how many people had the unlocked weapons and only a small percentage of players did so they decided to change the system to random so everyone had the chance. I just think thats dumb because the hardcore player has to have something to be different from the rest and if everyone had them then they arn't special anymore. Why should everyone be able to see everything? Alot of people complain about content they wont see but why should they? I just want a game where the time I put into it makes me different and unique so I can feel happy about my character which is important for an mmorpg.
This is exactly what some of us dislike in terms of game attitude. Epeen bragging. And based on what? Just b/c he stay online 24/7 forever.
Do I want to play a game in which the winner is the one who stays online for ever, ok, no problem. He can have a lot of badges, honors, titles, showing how many hours he hover over his own screen not afk. But to say that games shuts down the majority and allowing only a few to experience some core features, just to let them brag? Is that a bit off the mark.
It is exactly this attitude of elitism that tears society apart. Why should the developer reward those who consumes the most of the bandwidth? Do they pay more? No. If the developer is restricting exposure to selective parts of the game, the choice should be based on payment. Unless you pay more you already "abused" your share by hogging the bandwidth 24/7. AND you asked everyone to admire you by having the developer grant you special access to restricted game zones? No way.
At least the least hardcore player that has yet to appear, please don't kill me ^^.
Honestly, I have to agree that WoW has started a lot of bad trends, drawing in so many numbers of casual gamers that the market is now flood with games aimed at them. While I will likely never be hardcore(unless I miraculously found the right game), I wish designers would take into account that not everyone wants the same game, or plays for the same reasons. I've said that before, and I'll say that again. Personally, I think it would be a fantastic idea if games would start differentiating their channels. Have the easy/dumb chans for some, have the mid range for people like me, and have the super tough, bad ass regions for people like yourselves. It would get us gaming midgets out of the way and let the posers come to your channels for the pwnage many of them deserve.
At least the least hardcore player that has yet to appear, please don't kill me ^^. Honestly, I have to agree that WoW has started a lot of bad trends, drawing in so many numbers of casual gamers that the market is now flood with games aimed at them. While I will likely never be hardcore(unless I miraculously found the right game), I wish designers would take into account that not everyone wants the same game, or plays for the same reasons. I've said that before, and I'll say that again. Personally, I think it would be a fantastic idea if games would start differentiating their channels. Have the easy/dumb chans for some, have the mid range for people like me, and have the super tough, bad ass regions for people like yourselves. It would get us gaming midgets out of the way and let the posers come to your channels for the pwnage many of them deserve.
I do not agree that WoW started bad trends. I do not believe in blaming a game for something one of us do not like.
What is wrong with many casual gamers? Why has games to be exclusive. The internet itself is not built to be exclusive.
As for low middle hi rank games, who is to rank who as hi and low. Is high low medium a linear scale in which everyone is clearly ranked? Is it ranked by time? body weight? soberness? Speed in clicking mouse? How does a hi player compares to a low, and how do we identify them from the mass of "casual" gamers.
Now what is the be including in the game for the hi players, that should not be in the games for the low players. Are the games for hi players richer in every aspect? If so are the hi players paying more for their games? From a business perpective, which segment of the market is most profitable?
Until we sort out what you are saying, we essentially have a bunch of undefined terms, terms we throw at each other just for the sake of typing here.
No, I was thinking more like bigger badder monster, an increased exp curve so those who truly like grinding can push into hard, this would of course meaning dropping the better more elite items. While it might mean a bit more program, it would be considerably less than a game devoted entirely for those who want the challenge. Kind of like the difficulty settings in Halo, therefore an achievement for burning through the difficult channels rather than gliding through the easy ones.
As for Wow bad trends, I meant it more in terms that a great many games are now trying to be like it, hampering diversity and discouraging innovation. I wasn't trying to hate on it or anything, only pointing out that nothing succeeds like success, but that success isn't entirely a good thing for those people who aren't directly fans of the series.
I don't have a problem with creating a game casuals can play but I hate this new thing of dumbing down the game so theres nothing for the hardcore and casuals can get everything. We've seen this with World of Warcraft where theres nothing really anymore for the hardcore to differentiate themselves from the casual players. Now everyone can have everything and things like epics arn't special anymore and you miss that sense of omg he's badass. In SWG for example there was so much you could do to make yourselves different and the main reason for that is they didn't spoon feed the content to you and you had to work it out for yourselves. The suprising satistics I found of how few people did the things that I did, even other hardcore players and it made me feel proud. However if the game is too easy and thousands upon thousands of people have done that same thing, then you just don't care about doing anything. Even in TF2 now they looked at how many people had the unlocked weapons and only a small percentage of players did so they decided to change the system to random so everyone had the chance. I just think thats dumb because the hardcore player has to have something to be different from the rest and if everyone had them then they arn't special anymore. Why should everyone be able to see everything? Alot of people complain about content they wont see but why should they? I just want a game where the time I put into it makes me different and unique so I can feel happy about my character which is important for an mmorpg.
so, how long DID it take for you to fully clear all the ULDUAR HARD MODE BOSSES and KILL ALGALON? PLZ link your armory so i can see your achievement page. NO?
Guess what. WoW has put something in their game to appeal to the so called 'Hardcore' poop sock kids who wanna dedicate their EVERY waking moment to the game.
GIT ER DUN!
(i use this as just an example of a game catering to the hardcores by putting in a boss that if you manage to beat him will put you in a VERY small minority in the massive WoW community. You may hate WoW, but what you are looking for is right there.)
Every answer has a question, every question has an answer.
I think people always make the mistake of confusing "casual" with "Does not want to put any effort in".
Hardcore vs casual is what you do with the time you spend logged in:
For example: I do not work due to sickness, so I play MMOs all day. My boyfriend works 9 hours a day, and plays MMOs in the evening.
However, he spends his time in game focused on one character, on making that the best he can, he logs in knowing what he has to achieve to get to the next goal he has set, he reads up on all classes, so he knows how they play, in PvP or PvE,.
I spend my time split between as many chars as the game allows, they will all be maxed in their crafts, they will all be well geared, but my boyfriend achieves more end game stuff in any game faster than me.
This is not to say I do not raid, I love raiding, however, the game is about the journey, not the destination for me...for him, it is about the destination.
So, I put in more hours...but he achieves more in relation to endgame than me.
One thing we both have in common, is we both want a challenge...we both hate the feeling that games are easymode. For me, I hate when levelling is easy, when I can start a game, make a new char for the first time, and not worry about dying. For him, he hates when endgame is easy, he likes gear checks, skill checks etc. I also like those, but I worry less about them when I pick up a new game, as I am not initially looking at endgame.
He picks the fastest levelling spec, I pick my raiding spec to level with.
At the moment, the game giving me most "omg that was close" moments is Vanguard. For once I have to take care when I pull mobs while soloing, and if more than one comes, it is an Oh Crap! moment.
He is more into PvP at the moment, but he would join Vanguard if it had PvP...I would stay there more often if it had a slightly bigger population, so I am splitting my time between Lotro and Vanguard, hoping for a raid centred game to come out that has a lot of challenges, and hopefully with a decent amount of pvp so my boyfriend can join me in it.
"catering to casuals" to me, means catering to people classed as casuals, but who really fall into the "I want everything for free, and will throw around the I have a life card".
I know raiders who log on only to raid, and gather mats for raiding, playing far less than the casuals that claim to not have time to raid.
Casual vs Hardcore is simply a matter of what you do with the time you have to spend in game.
Challenging vs Can play in my sleep is what the problem is.
No, I was thinking more like bigger badder monster, an increased exp curve so those who truly like grinding can push into hard, this would of course meaning dropping the better more elite items. While it might mean a bit more program, it would be considerably less than a game devoted entirely for those who want the challenge. Kind of like the difficulty settings in Halo, therefore an achievement for burning through the difficult channels rather than gliding through the easy ones. As for Wow bad trends, I meant it more in terms that a great many games are now trying to be like it, hampering diversity and discouraging innovation. I wasn't trying to hate on it or anything, only pointing out that nothing succeeds like success, but that success isn't entirely a good thing for those people who aren't directly fans of the series.
Ok but you still dodge the key question: why should the 24/7 gamers be rewarded more in terms of extra loot or special assess to restricted content? Do they contribute more the gameplay, do they contribute more in terms of sub fees?
I prefer to be rewarded for my skill and ability to actually get things done rather than how little of Iife I have in a desperate bid to attain something that for all extensive purposes is worthless.
Point for me also is, the game is supposed to be fun regardless of how long you play. The fun should be the goal, not some pixels.
Honestly, wasting hours on end to obtain an item in a game as if it's the holy grail is more hopeless sounding to me than knocking yer rocks off to pictures.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Games could just add a bit of seriously challenging content, that would go a long way toward making hardcore players happy.
Unfortunately, a few frustrated players will always cry foul in such situations. I wouldn't call that an issue of casual vs. hardcore, it's just that some people like to whine. Not all casual players are whiners, and not all hardcore players are elitists. I think it's unfortunate that players are lumped into these groups in a negative way.
I think it's really funny that people's definition of a challenge in mmos is the measure of time spent, and not the difficulty!
This might have been mentioned before but human psyche works as follows. Not evryone can succeed, are MMOS turning into Communism online? Not everyone can become an Elit football player and not everyone can become a mathematical genius. The same must apply to an MMO world if we have nobody to look up to and be awe struck by, the games hype will just fade away... Reason sports are so big is that the those modern gladiators do what most of us only dream about doing. Same logic goes for MMOs, if the Industry dosent catch on soon, and continue to dumb down these games, the mmo market will crash and burn... Watch and see all of you that dont agree with me... Games need a challenge to spurr people on... It also ceeps the casuals playing as they have somthing/someone to look up to.. Not everyone can be the Alpha dog...its not in the human natur.
That you are wrong. In all the single player game, you ARE the hero. People would not pay money to play a game where they can't get the good stuff.
Remember that MMORPGs are NOT real life. They are games and the whole point is to make people have the illusion that they are special.
hahah did you even read my post.. I know english is not my first language but what are you saying mate?????
this is what you said in the last sentance: They are games and the whole point os to make people have the illusion that they are special...
Challenge, being best (haveing the best gear etc) is what makes people play the games.. if people dont have that they will not stick around.
Remember this post please... the game companies are shooting themselfs in the foot. Why do you think all games have failed after WoW. One by one they have gone down, because they have all been dumb down to nothingness. Take WAR for example, they made Instance running/spamming battlegrounds the best way to lvl and everyone used it. People played it to thiere eyes bleed. It Was boring solo grindfest.
MMOS should be about comunity not solo game play. If people want to go solo they play solo games. MMOS=Comunity=E-pen=Not everyone can be the same. If companies start to take this away one by one they will fail. And the track record after WoW shows that im right. The DUmbing down has destroyed the genre and people have stoped playing.....
A) When did "hardcore" become a self proclaimed title?
When was a definition for "hardcore gamer" established?
C) Why is it so important for some people to be recognized as being hardcore?
Hmmm, lets see: If you need to pin the "hardcore" button on you, so others know that you are "hardcore", but exactly these others just wonder what the hell you mean with "hardcore" and why you have the need for them to know that you are "hardcore"; well that would leave you to be a hardcore idiot.
A) When did "hardcore" become a self proclaimed title? When was a definition for "hardcore gamer" established? C) Why is it so important for some people to be recognized as being hardcore?
Hmmm, lets see: If you need to pin the "hardcore" button on you, so others know that you are "hardcore", but exactly these others just wonder what the hell you mean with "hardcore" and why you have the need for them to know that you are "hardcore"; well that would leave you to be a hardcore idiot.
Hardcore means nothing. Being hardcore in a game is laughable
Comments
I get what you are saying.
I highlighted one part in particular.
It was this design philosophy that killed PotBS.
I said almost exactly that in the PotBS forums pre-release.
They made the world 'small' because people complained the world would be too big.
In fact they made it so small you could see and do almost everything in a month or two. Guess how long people stayed subbed for?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
I think the term "hardcore" together with "game" is an oxymoron, but thats me.
Special Forces are hardcore, ER staff are hardcore, Surface Rescue Divers are hardcore, Chuck Norris is HARDCORE.
Computer games and gamers hardcore? Not so much!
Back on topic. Realise that you so called (using the term loosely here) "hardcore" gamers are just a miniscule and shrinking percentage of the current gamer community, while us "others" that game for entertainment and not a second life is driving the market. Thus developers aim towards the big market because it is there the muulah is. Is this a good or bad thing, dunno? For me who games MUCH, not hardcore, but rather for entertainment, its good because of the wide range of games and genres to chose from. For you, the "hardcore", probably bad but I think your going extinct anyway so who cares
That is totally irrelevant corollary.
Billion dollar sports is a showcase, a ground for bigger billion dollar gambling. You are not expect to play with Cobby Bryant, or Lebon James, you are expected to grab a popcorn while turning on the TV. PERIOD.
MMOs are not there for you to watch, unless you enjoy the YouTubes only. MMOs are mass participation games, like the morning stretching exercise in the park outside our house. The elderly, the kids. You do not expect such social activities to require the bulky mass and charging power of O'Neal plus the dexterity of Cobby Bryant.
How much I wish to be hardcore and drive one of the formula-one engines. Dream on --> /bonk myself.
Hehe funny view.
Can't say that the hardcore players are dying off, but they sure are outnumbered with the massive expansion in gamer population. Back in the modem days, a few thousands in a game is a lot, and there is just UO. We only got to know some 40-50 active players at any time. Many of these play in a more "hardcore" manner.
Now we have hundreds of servers with this many games, and up to millions in each game. A few thousand hardcores spread over a few hundred servers = 10 per server if they are all online at once, sure you feel they are extinct. They are swarmed by the thousands less hardcore players.
What is hardcore, I dunno. There are as many views as there are thinking heads.
John,
I gotta tell ya I empathize with you I really do man. I try to echo the same sentiment to everyone I meet. If something bothers you don't let it get you out of your mode. Take it as motivation to do your own thing that will give you that satisfaction that you are talking about.
Everyone has something different that works for them in their lives. Some people have experiences like yourself and turn around and make their own MMO and it all started with something similar to you. They weren't happy with trends in something in the market and they got tired because things weren't hardcore or dumbed down too much whatever the case may be.
The point is don't let it get you down my brotha use it as fuel to motivate you and make your own destiny. Whatever makes you happy you can do it. Some people might reply to this post in a snarky manner but my intent is sincere...go out there and do what makes John happy and if that means you create the next Deluxe 247 MMO then go for it.
Hehe funny view.
Can't say that the hardcore players are dying off, but they sure are outnumbered with the massive expansion in gamer population. Back in the modem days, a few thousands in a game is a lot, and there is just UO. We only got to know some 40-50 active players at any time. Many of these play in a more "hardcore" manner.
Now we have hundreds of servers with this many games, and up to millions in each game. A few thousand hardcores spread over a few hundred servers = 10 per server if they are all online at once, sure you feel they are extinct. They are swarmed by the thousands less hardcore players.
What is hardcore, I dunno. There are as many views as there are thinking heads.
I agree that the definition of a hardcore gamer is fuzzy. Even though I don't consider myself hardcore in the gaming department (might in other
) I'm not in to WoW:esque themepark games but rather games with deep complex game systems and open harsh worlds, like original SWG and AC. I too am concerned about the current market alignment to "easy" games, but I also think that there are games in the works to fulfill the needs for those who wan't more complexity and depth to them. Fallen Earth, Earth Rise, MO, etc. I think never before has there been so many promising games in the works, both MMOS and SP games, so fear not, I think all of us, hardcore or not, will have plenty to spend our time and money on in the coming years 
This is exactly what some of us dislike in terms of game attitude. Epeen bragging. And based on what? Just b/c he stay online 24/7 forever.
Do I want to play a game in which the winner is the one who stays online for ever, ok, no problem. He can have a lot of badges, honors, titles, showing how many hours he hover over his own screen not afk. But to say that games shuts down the majority and allowing only a few to experience some core features, just to let them brag? Is that a bit off the mark.
It is exactly this attitude of elitism that tears society apart. Why should the developer reward those who consumes the most of the bandwidth? Do they pay more? No. If the developer is restricting exposure to selective parts of the game, the choice should be based on payment. Unless you pay more you already "abused" your share by hogging the bandwidth 24/7. AND you asked everyone to admire you by having the developer grant you special access to restricted game zones? No way.
At least the least hardcore player that has yet to appear, please don't kill me ^^.
Honestly, I have to agree that WoW has started a lot of bad trends, drawing in so many numbers of casual gamers that the market is now flood with games aimed at them. While I will likely never be hardcore(unless I miraculously found the right game), I wish designers would take into account that not everyone wants the same game, or plays for the same reasons. I've said that before, and I'll say that again. Personally, I think it would be a fantastic idea if games would start differentiating their channels. Have the easy/dumb chans for some, have the mid range for people like me, and have the super tough, bad ass regions for people like yourselves. It would get us gaming midgets out of the way and let the posers come to your channels for the pwnage many of them deserve.
I do not agree that WoW started bad trends. I do not believe in blaming a game for something one of us do not like.
What is wrong with many casual gamers? Why has games to be exclusive. The internet itself is not built to be exclusive.
As for low middle hi rank games, who is to rank who as hi and low. Is high low medium a linear scale in which everyone is clearly ranked? Is it ranked by time? body weight? soberness? Speed in clicking mouse? How does a hi player compares to a low, and how do we identify them from the mass of "casual" gamers.
Now what is the be including in the game for the hi players, that should not be in the games for the low players. Are the games for hi players richer in every aspect? If so are the hi players paying more for their games? From a business perpective, which segment of the market is most profitable?
Until we sort out what you are saying, we essentially have a bunch of undefined terms, terms we throw at each other just for the sake of typing here.
No, I was thinking more like bigger badder monster, an increased exp curve so those who truly like grinding can push into hard, this would of course meaning dropping the better more elite items. While it might mean a bit more program, it would be considerably less than a game devoted entirely for those who want the challenge. Kind of like the difficulty settings in Halo, therefore an achievement for burning through the difficult channels rather than gliding through the easy ones.
As for Wow bad trends, I meant it more in terms that a great many games are now trying to be like it, hampering diversity and discouraging innovation. I wasn't trying to hate on it or anything, only pointing out that nothing succeeds like success, but that success isn't entirely a good thing for those people who aren't directly fans of the series.
so, how long DID it take for you to fully clear all the ULDUAR HARD MODE BOSSES and KILL ALGALON? PLZ link your armory so i can see your achievement page. NO?
Guess what. WoW has put something in their game to appeal to the so called 'Hardcore' poop sock kids who wanna dedicate their EVERY waking moment to the game.
GIT ER DUN!
(i use this as just an example of a game catering to the hardcores by putting in a boss that if you manage to beat him will put you in a VERY small minority in the massive WoW community. You may hate WoW, but what you are looking for is right there.)
Every answer has a question, every question has an answer.
I think people always make the mistake of confusing "casual" with "Does not want to put any effort in".
Hardcore vs casual is what you do with the time you spend logged in:
For example: I do not work due to sickness, so I play MMOs all day. My boyfriend works 9 hours a day, and plays MMOs in the evening.
However, he spends his time in game focused on one character, on making that the best he can, he logs in knowing what he has to achieve to get to the next goal he has set, he reads up on all classes, so he knows how they play, in PvP or PvE,.
I spend my time split between as many chars as the game allows, they will all be maxed in their crafts, they will all be well geared, but my boyfriend achieves more end game stuff in any game faster than me.
This is not to say I do not raid, I love raiding, however, the game is about the journey, not the destination for me...for him, it is about the destination.
So, I put in more hours...but he achieves more in relation to endgame than me.
One thing we both have in common, is we both want a challenge...we both hate the feeling that games are easymode. For me, I hate when levelling is easy, when I can start a game, make a new char for the first time, and not worry about dying. For him, he hates when endgame is easy, he likes gear checks, skill checks etc. I also like those, but I worry less about them when I pick up a new game, as I am not initially looking at endgame.
He picks the fastest levelling spec, I pick my raiding spec to level with.
At the moment, the game giving me most "omg that was close" moments is Vanguard. For once I have to take care when I pull mobs while soloing, and if more than one comes, it is an Oh Crap! moment.
He is more into PvP at the moment, but he would join Vanguard if it had PvP...I would stay there more often if it had a slightly bigger population, so I am splitting my time between Lotro and Vanguard, hoping for a raid centred game to come out that has a lot of challenges, and hopefully with a decent amount of pvp so my boyfriend can join me in it.
"catering to casuals" to me, means catering to people classed as casuals, but who really fall into the "I want everything for free, and will throw around the I have a life card".
I know raiders who log on only to raid, and gather mats for raiding, playing far less than the casuals that claim to not have time to raid.
Casual vs Hardcore is simply a matter of what you do with the time you have to spend in game.
Challenging vs Can play in my sleep is what the problem is.
Ok but you still dodge the key question: why should the 24/7 gamers be rewarded more in terms of extra loot or special assess to restricted content? Do they contribute more the gameplay, do they contribute more in terms of sub fees?
Besides pale skin and hemorrhoids?
Besides pale skin and hemorrhoids?
The point is, why do we need to differentiate? People who stay online forever need to be deocorated by the president?
I prefer to be rewarded for my skill and ability to actually get things done rather than how little of Iife I have in a desperate bid to attain something that for all extensive purposes is worthless.
Point for me also is, the game is supposed to be fun regardless of how long you play. The fun should be the goal, not some pixels.
Honestly, wasting hours on end to obtain an item in a game as if it's the holy grail is more hopeless sounding to me than knocking yer rocks off to pictures.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Games could just add a bit of seriously challenging content, that would go a long way toward making hardcore players happy.
Unfortunately, a few frustrated players will always cry foul in such situations. I wouldn't call that an issue of casual vs. hardcore, it's just that some people like to whine. Not all casual players are whiners, and not all hardcore players are elitists. I think it's unfortunate that players are lumped into these groups in a negative way.
I think it's really funny that people's definition of a challenge in mmos is the measure of time spent, and not the difficulty!
That you are wrong. In all the single player game, you ARE the hero. People would not pay money to play a game where they can't get the good stuff.
Remember that MMORPGs are NOT real life. They are games and the whole point is to make people have the illusion that they are special.
hahah did you even read my post.. I know english is not my first language but what are you saying mate?????
this is what you said in the last sentance: They are games and the whole point os to make people have the illusion that they are special...
Challenge, being best (haveing the best gear etc) is what makes people play the games.. if people dont have that they will not stick around.
Remember this post please... the game companies are shooting themselfs in the foot. Why do you think all games have failed after WoW. One by one they have gone down, because they have all been dumb down to nothingness. Take WAR for example, they made Instance running/spamming battlegrounds the best way to lvl and everyone used it. People played it to thiere eyes bleed. It Was boring solo grindfest.
MMOS should be about comunity not solo game play. If people want to go solo they play solo games. MMOS=Comunity=E-pen=Not everyone can be the same. If companies start to take this away one by one they will fail. And the track record after WoW shows that im right. The DUmbing down has destroyed the genre and people have stoped playing.....
A) When did "hardcore" become a self proclaimed title?
C) Why is it so important for some people to be recognized as being hardcore?
Hmmm, lets see: If you need to pin the "hardcore" button on you, so others know that you are "hardcore", but exactly these others just wonder what the hell you mean with "hardcore" and why you have the need for them to know that you are "hardcore"; well that would leave you to be a hardcore idiot.
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Nobody is useless, he/she can still be used as a bad example.
Hardcore means nothing. Being hardcore in a game is laughable