Originally posted by babyhuey Have you seen the videos that show gameplay? They are anything but polished. Of course they haven't said they will release the game unpolished, but judging from videos and their comments I believe it will lack polish at release. They have commented on some of the jerky looking animations and have said that it won't get much better than that. Its a consequence of having a real time combat system with hitboxes.Just don't get your hopes up expecting a polished game from an indie developer.
Yes, I've seen all videos dozen or so times. So, could you be more specific about "anything but polished" things ? As even alpha screenshots are looking way better, than 3/4 games in lately beta tests. Could you repeat what animations are jerky in MO ? Jerky are DFo's animations. Do I have to continue ? I'm certain I don't.
Posting bullshits without using any reasonable arguments is just trolling. Hope one day you will realize that.
ps. maybe we should just screw MO, and look forward to another cookie cutter copy of EQ? BUAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !
-- /thread
Remember, your advantage lies in your opponent's weakness (J)
I think he refers to the choppy quality of the movement visuals and animations in the trailer.
The devs themselves have acknowledged this and have offered the explanation that it is due to how they designed the netcode and other reasons that come with the territory of having hitboxes, many players in an MMO environment and action-y gameplay and whatnot.
They have said that they have improved upon their animations, but that there will be a certain amount of "choppyness" in the game, due to how it is constructed, to put it simply.
Once again, they were not afraid to tell the fans how it really was.
I think he refers to the choppy quality of the movement visuals and animations in the trailer.
The devs themselves have acknowledged this and have offered the explanation that it is due to how they designed the netcode and other reasons that come with the territory of having hitboxes, many players in an MMO environment and action-y gameplay and whatnot.
They have said that they have improved upon their animations, but that there will be a certain amount of "choppyness" in the game, due to how it is constructed, to put it simply.
Once again, they were not afraid to tell the fans how it really was.
And to add to this..
SV has stated clearly that they are an indie company and due to financial and time restraints, there is no way that they can release a finished and polished game. No one is expecting them to. And if you are, you are ignorant. The core features are going to be released and it will be polished and added to over time.. hopefully ending in a very well constructed and exciting game to play.
I haven't seen much choppiness, maybe a little when you get thrown around by ogres and minotaurs. But running around and moving looks pretty much the same as Oblivion, which seemed to make a lot of gamers happy, and still does. It's human nature to complain about things, even when things are going well.. people love to be heard.
SV has stated clearly that they are an indie company and due to financial and time restraints, there is no way that they can release a finished and polished game. The core features are going to be released and it will be polished and added to over time.. hopefully ending in a very well constructed and exciting game to play.
This ... should be a big disclaimer on top of this board before the shit hits the fan at release.
People should really realize that if they buy and sub for the game they actually sub to help fund the game's further developement.
If you have faith in the MO formula and are as impressed with the amount of thought behind every announced game feature and mechanic like I am, and you trust this particular dev team to eventually deliver what has been intended, this might just be a very sound investment in your own future gaming pleasure
If playing a game which isn't completely finished at launch is something you really dislike, save yourself a possible disapointment and wait on some reviews before jumping in (or not). The bottom line is that they have been very clear in telling us in what state the game will be released.
Even with the choppy animation it still looks leaps and bounds better then DFO (and they update their website!!). As long as the core engine is solid and it releases with some crafting/housing and stuff to kill (besides other players) I'm cool with that. They are being much more upfront then some Dev's and I really appreciate that.
That and the community seems to be great so far. Very constructive and thoughtful.
Here's to hoping it does well. I'd like to see an MMO get sandbox right aside from Eve.
Originally posted by babyhuey Have you seen the videos that show gameplay? They are anything but polished. Of course they haven't said they will release the game unpolished, but judging from videos and their comments I believe it will lack polish at release. They have commented on some of the jerky looking animations and have said that it won't get much better than that. Its a consequence of having a real time combat system with hitboxes.
Just don't get your hopes up expecting a polished game from an indie developer.
Yes, I've seen all videos dozen or so times. So, could you be more specific about "anything but polished" things ? As even alpha screenshots are looking way better, than 3/4 games in lately beta tests. Could you repeat what animations are jerky in MO ? Jerky are DFo's animations. Do I have to continue ? I'm certain I don't.
Posting bullshits without using any reasonable arguments is just trolling. Hope one day you will realize that.
Read my posts in this thread and I think you'll see I'm not trolling, I'm actually defending the game. The main concern I've tried to voice in this thread is the fear that people expect this game to be polished and when it releases people will declare its an epic fail like Darkfall.
ps. maybe we should just screw MO, and look forward to another cookie cutter copy of EQ? BUAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !
To this comment I will just quote my own post a few pages back
You can't really expect an indie developer to release a perfectly baked mmo with a nice golden crust. If you insist on WoW polish then you're going to be stuck with cookie cutter MMOs from large developers. Perhaps thats okay with you. For me, I've lowered my polish expectations a bit and I'm looking for something different. So yes, a half developed game is fine.
I exactly referred to only 1 of your posts in this thread, not to everything you posted in this thread. And I still ask which animations aren't polished at this (beta) stage of development. K, let's forget about term "polished". Are YOU satisfied with animations shown on all video footages ? I'm very pleased, considering lately released mmorpgs. I've seen only one game in beta stage, which might had better ones, but it was canceled - I'll leave to you name of this game
Regarding other unpolished things, which you didn't mention I will come up with an example: grass. There was no grass in any video footage. Reason ? Technical problems during development. Will it be more complicated to fix the grass, and make it waving while wind is blowing (polished), or implement a large part of content which may be for example naval warfare - of course unpolished - by the release? Both examples taken from own lately experiences.
Aren't 4 years of physical game development enough to release a polished, core part of the game ? Do they need to polish it for another 2 years, and then release ?
MO cannot be worse than WAR/AoC/DFo at the beginning. It may be at most similar, cause the bar was set low enough.
You mentioned DFo. Why didn't you say anything about AoC ? From 900k customers to 300k within 1 month <- this is epic fail. Not DFo, which playerbase is growing. Other fail example ? VG:SoH <- it's almost a cadaver.
I compared couple screenshots from DM with sshots taken from latest MO's HD video footage. GFX is polished fine enough for a game in development. I'm more concerned about mechanics than GFX, as for me: 1. content 2. fun 3. gfx 100. "people will declare its an epic fail like Darkfall"
edit: I said it one time, but I will repeat it. SV doesn't make everything by themselves. They create only game's lore, and its world without loosing time to code game's engine, netcode, server software (not in 100%), and creating tools to develop things, using already proven & well working like grome or speedtree.
-- /thread
Remember, your advantage lies in your opponent's weakness (J)
How on earth does releasing information have anything to do with how much of the game is developed? They don't have to let us know every time they code something.
Originally posted by joshe I exactly referred to only 1 of your posts in this thread, not to everything you posted in this thread. And I still ask which animations aren't polished at this (beta) stage of development. K, let's forget about term "polished". Are YOU satisfied with animations shown on all video footages ? I'm very pleased, considering lately released mmorpgs. I've seen only one game in beta stage, which might had better ones, but it was canceled - I'll leave to you name of this game ;)Regarding other unpolished things, which you didn't mention I will come up with an example: grass. There was no grass in any video footage. Reason ? Technical problems during development. Will it be more complicated to fix the grass, and make it waving while wind is blowing (polished), or implement a large part of content which may be for example naval warfare - of course unpolished - by the release? Both examples taken from own lately experiences.Aren't 4 years of physical game development enough to release a polished, core part of the game ? Do they need to polish it for another 2 years, and then release ?MO cannot be worse than WAR/AoC/DFo at the beginning. It may be at most similar, cause the bar was set low enough.You mentioned DFo. Why didn't you say anything about AoC ? From 900k customers to 300k within 1 month <- this is epic fail. Not DFo, which playerbase is growing. Other fail example ? VG:SoH <- it's almost a cadaver.I compared couple screenshots from DM with sshots taken from latest MO's HD video footage. GFX is polished fine enough for a game in development. I'm more concerned about mechanics than GFX, as for me: 1. content 2. fun 3. gfx 100. "people will declare its an epic fail like Darkfall" edit: I said it one time, but I will repeat it. SV doesn't make everything by themselves. They create only game's lore, and its world without loosing time to code game's engine, netcode, server software (not in 100%), and creating tools to develop things, using already proven & well working like grome or speedtree.
Why are you arguing? for the sake of arguing? As far as I can tell the only thing we disagree on is the degree of "polish" currently in a unreleased game. I think I'm okay to agree to disagree on that.
If you're slowly losing interest now then you probably weren't very interested to begin with. Anyone who expects more then a update per month is asking too much of an indie developer who is trying to get the game out this summer.
I think the biggest thing is that the devs are telling us this. They read the forums and respond pretty frequently for an MMO team. They seem...honest? In a dev team? This can't be right..
What gives me some faith in the game and make me want to play it even if it's released "unfinished" is the devs are telling us this right off the bat. They aren't trying to trick you into buying the game or lying about its state of development. They've outright said- "We'll have the core features in, and they'll be X, Y and Z. However we're going to have keep developing it later after launch as we get more funds."
As an MMO player for many years, this alone makes me willing to pay for it.
Personally I find their honestly quite refreshing.
It is totally 100% forgivable to release a game in an unfinished state as long as the developer informs its community that this will happen. Starvault's approach should cause a lot less anger and hostility than other recent releases.
Letting us all know ahead of time that the game will not be complete at release is a LOT better than releasing a terribly unfinished game and then denying that it is unfinished... like some others have done recently.
I have to admit that I'm (pleasantly) surprised that more people aren't up in arms over the supposed "unifished" release of this game.
As others have mentioned, the honesty is refreshing. It seems as though we'll know up front what has been implemented, and what will be implemented in the future. The core of the game will be there, which is an obvious plus. And I think the players will have a great chance to really impact the development of the game and the manner in which new features are implemented. While some people are turned off by their plan, in the long run I think both the player and the developers could benefit from it.
That being said, and extended free trial, or discounted monthly payments, might be a good idea.
I have to admit that I'm (pleasantly) surprised that more people aren't up in arms over the supposed "unifished" release of this game. As others have mentioned, the honesty is refreshing. It seems as though we'll know up front what has been implemented, and what will be implemented in the future. The core of the game will be there, which is an obvious plus. And I think the players will have a great chance to really impact the development of the game and the manner in which new features are implemented. While some people are turned off by their plan, in the long run I think both the player and the developers could benefit from it. That being said, and extended free trial, or discounted monthly payments, might be a good idea.
That is true, I dont really mind it being unfinished as long as they are honest about it, if the core features are in to start off it should be enough to keep some of us entretained while updates happen, having played L2 from open beta until recently despite all of their botting/RMT problems I think the content evolution was quite good, the game only really got content at a nowadays "release" standard around Chronicle 5, this kept the game fresh for a long time and throughout all of the expansions.
Same here... the more it starts to look like DF2 the less interested I am.
The trick was never to be hyped up by it in the first place, I am already sold to Aion since i played the CN beta, I would love for MO to succeed, if its what they promised then I will play it, if not then I will be happily playing AION. If MO fails im not surprised, indie development, big plans there is a bigger chance of failure than success.
Whenever it happens, they're getting my $$ at launch.
Star Vault deserve it. The risk they took with creating such an unpopular genre, a huge project, and the way they have conducted themselves with the public, fans etc. An honest, down to earth game company, who'd have thought it possible?
Now if only they'd release a very good MMO to go with all this... I'd change my religion and become a SVian!
Comments
Yes, I've seen all videos dozen or so times.
So, could you be more specific about "anything but polished" things ? As even alpha screenshots are looking way better, than 3/4 games in lately beta tests. Could you repeat what animations are jerky in MO ? Jerky are DFo's animations. Do I have to continue ? I'm certain I don't.
Posting bullshits without using any reasonable arguments is just trolling. Hope one day you will realize that.
ps. maybe we should just screw MO, and look forward to another cookie cutter copy of EQ?
BUAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !
--
/thread
Remember, your advantage lies in your opponent's weakness (J)
I think he refers to the choppy quality of the movement visuals and animations in the trailer.
The devs themselves have acknowledged this and have offered the explanation that it is due to how they designed the netcode and other reasons that come with the territory of having hitboxes, many players in an MMO environment and action-y gameplay and whatnot.
They have said that they have improved upon their animations, but that there will be a certain amount of "choppyness" in the game, due to how it is constructed, to put it simply.
Once again, they were not afraid to tell the fans how it really was.
And to add to this..
SV has stated clearly that they are an indie company and due to financial and time restraints, there is no way that they can release a finished and polished game. No one is expecting them to. And if you are, you are ignorant. The core features are going to be released and it will be polished and added to over time.. hopefully ending in a very well constructed and exciting game to play.
I haven't seen much choppiness, maybe a little when you get thrown around by ogres and minotaurs. But running around and moving looks pretty much the same as Oblivion, which seemed to make a lot of gamers happy, and still does. It's human nature to complain about things, even when things are going well.. people love to be heard.
This ... should be a big disclaimer on top of this board before the shit hits the fan at release.
People should really realize that if they buy and sub for the game they actually sub to help fund the game's further developement.
If you have faith in the MO formula and are as impressed with the amount of thought behind every announced game feature and mechanic like I am, and you trust this particular dev team to eventually deliver what has been intended, this might just be a very sound investment in your own future gaming pleasure
If playing a game which isn't completely finished at launch is something you really dislike, save yourself a possible disapointment and wait on some reviews before jumping in (or not). The bottom line is that they have been very clear in telling us in what state the game will be released.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Even with the choppy animation it still looks leaps and bounds better then DFO (and they update their website!!). As long as the core engine is solid and it releases with some crafting/housing and stuff to kill (besides other players) I'm cool with that. They are being much more upfront then some Dev's and I really appreciate that.
That and the community seems to be great so far. Very constructive and thoughtful.
Here's to hoping it does well. I'd like to see an MMO get sandbox right aside from Eve.
Read my posts in this thread and I think you'll see I'm not trolling, I'm actually defending the game.
The main concern I've tried to voice in this thread is the fear that people expect this game to be polished and when it releases people will declare its an epic fail like Darkfall.
To this comment I will just quote my own post a few pages back
I exactly referred to only 1 of your posts in this thread, not to everything you posted in this thread.
And I still ask which animations aren't polished at this (beta) stage of development. K, let's forget about term "polished".
Are YOU satisfied with animations shown on all video footages ?
I'm very pleased, considering lately released mmorpgs.
I've seen only one game in beta stage, which might had better ones, but it was canceled - I'll leave to you name of this game
Regarding other unpolished things, which you didn't mention I will come up with an example: grass. There was no grass in any video footage. Reason ? Technical problems during development.
Will it be more complicated to fix the grass, and make it waving while wind is blowing (polished), or implement a large part of content which may be for example naval warfare - of course unpolished - by the release? Both examples taken from own lately experiences.
Aren't 4 years of physical game development enough to release a polished, core part of the game ? Do they need to polish it for another 2 years, and then release ?
MO cannot be worse than WAR/AoC/DFo at the beginning. It may be at most similar, cause the bar was set low enough.
You mentioned DFo. Why didn't you say anything about AoC ?
From 900k customers to 300k within 1 month <- this is epic fail.
Not DFo, which playerbase is growing. Other fail example ?
VG:SoH <- it's almost a cadaver.
I compared couple screenshots from DM with sshots taken from latest MO's HD video footage. GFX is polished fine enough for a game in development. I'm more concerned about mechanics than GFX, as for me:
1. content
2. fun
3. gfx
100. "people will declare its an epic fail like Darkfall"
edit: I said it one time, but I will repeat it.
SV doesn't make everything by themselves.
They create only game's lore, and its world without loosing time to code game's engine, netcode, server software (not in 100%), and creating tools to develop things, using already proven & well working like grome or speedtree.
--
/thread
Remember, your advantage lies in your opponent's weakness (J)
How on earth does releasing information have anything to do with how much of the game is developed? They don't have to let us know every time they code something.
Why are you arguing? for the sake of arguing?
As far as I can tell the only thing we disagree on is the degree of "polish" currently in a unreleased game. I think I'm okay to agree to disagree on that.
I'm slowly losing interest in this game..
this thursday is the next information release
If you're slowly losing interest now then you probably weren't very interested to begin with. Anyone who expects more then a update per month is asking too much of an indie developer who is trying to get the game out this summer.
Yes because if you didnt take the time to watch the powerpoint, or you did watch it and didnt like it then you should probably just leave
I think the biggest thing is that the devs are telling us this. They read the forums and respond pretty frequently for an MMO team. They seem...honest? In a dev team? This can't be right..
What gives me some faith in the game and make me want to play it even if it's released "unfinished" is the devs are telling us this right off the bat. They aren't trying to trick you into buying the game or lying about its state of development. They've outright said- "We'll have the core features in, and they'll be X, Y and Z. However we're going to have keep developing it later after launch as we get more funds."
As an MMO player for many years, this alone makes me willing to pay for it.
Personally I find their honestly quite refreshing.
It is totally 100% forgivable to release a game in an unfinished state as long as the developer informs its community that this will happen. Starvault's approach should cause a lot less anger and hostility than other recent releases.
Letting us all know ahead of time that the game will not be complete at release is a LOT better than releasing a terribly unfinished game and then denying that it is unfinished... like some others have done recently.
I have to admit that I'm (pleasantly) surprised that more people aren't up in arms over the supposed "unifished" release of this game.
As others have mentioned, the honesty is refreshing. It seems as though we'll know up front what has been implemented, and what will be implemented in the future. The core of the game will be there, which is an obvious plus. And I think the players will have a great chance to really impact the development of the game and the manner in which new features are implemented. While some people are turned off by their plan, in the long run I think both the player and the developers could benefit from it.
That being said, and extended free trial, or discounted monthly payments, might be a good idea.
That is true, I dont really mind it being unfinished as long as they are honest about it, if the core features are in to start off it should be enough to keep some of us entretained while updates happen, having played L2 from open beta until recently despite all of their botting/RMT problems I think the content evolution was quite good, the game only really got content at a nowadays "release" standard around Chronicle 5, this kept the game fresh for a long time and throughout all of the expansions.
Same here... the more it starts to look like DF2 the less interested I am.
Same here... the more it starts to look like DF2 the less interested I am.
The trick was never to be hyped up by it in the first place, I am already sold to Aion since i played the CN beta, I would love for MO to succeed, if its what they promised then I will play it, if not then I will be happily playing AION. If MO fails im not surprised, indie development, big plans there is a bigger chance of failure than success.
Whenever it happens, they're getting my $$ at launch.
Star Vault deserve it. The risk they took with creating such an unpopular genre, a huge project, and the way they have conducted themselves with the public, fans etc. An honest, down to earth game company, who'd have thought it possible?
Now if only they'd release a very good MMO to go with all this... I'd change my religion and become a SVian!