You have entirely too much bias in your rebuttal. In fact, this is much less an argument than a bit of a rant. It's clear you're against rmt, and that is just fine. But your argument completely ignores simple facts such as the massive existing rmt market (which would be even higher were it legitimized) and the very basic fact that any mmo is already "unfair" due to vaying degress of available time to play a game (having more time to play a mmo is just as unbalancing as purchasing items). You must recognize that your opinion does not speak for the majority of mmo gamers. How could you possibly expect game developers to take you seriously when they're staring at a 2 billion / year rmt market? It's clear that many gamers have no issue at all with rmt.
Missed the whole point. Buying virtual items without actually playing isn't a game. Just because there is a big market for it doesn't make it gameplay. If everybody is doing it argument doesn't make it valid. You also miss the whole point of what a game is. You are worrying about how to maximize your time versus money shows this. Buying items does not make a game, getting the items is the game. If you feel it is unfun to get some items in a game or do not have enough time to play a game to get items then you would be doing yourself a favor by not doing it. That is like saying you want the trophy for playing football but do not have the time to play it so you just purchase the trophy. Does that make sense?
Also when you do buy items you only encourage developers to produce the same timesinks in their games that you do not have time for or do not find fun. Then you get in the whole circle of skipping what you are paying for again the gameplay to obtain items with swiping of a credit card. My argument is RMT isn't a gameplay style. RMT is the anti-game. You are paying to bypass what the game is, gameplay to obtain some virtual item. The experience of getting the item is what the game is, not actually having the item. If you buy it you will never have that satisfaction. Same goes for gold. If it requires too much good to get items in a game and you didn't purchase gold, the devs would either lose subscribers or change how much gold it took to buy said item.
The game itself is the gameplay you skip that you have nothing.
Your bias is showing again. You are arguing on the basis of your opinion, not on the basis of fact. Your defintion of fun does not equal someone else's definition of fun. The sooner you realize this the better off you will be in life. Many people find it much more fun to buy some gear and kill mobs faster than to kill mobs slower to find the equipment. Yes, it does defeat in many ways the purpose of the game, but that is not the point here. The point is that people find different things to be fun. RMT may "ruin" the game for you, and for someone else RMT may be the one factor that keeps them playing and having fun. It's not up to you to judge whether that is right or wrong, and it's most certainly not up to you to decide what's fun for someone else.
A month ago, I bought a neat hat for my character in Florensia for about five dollars. It looks cool and it gives me some bonus HP. I think I'm going to buy the guild robe this month. I enjoy being able to pick up little extras here and there either for looks or bonuses.
I think almost everyone here agrees that the more types of games that exist the better it is because players can choose what they like to play. You might not like my game, I might not like yours, but taking away your game doesn't help mine, and vice a versa.
So if people enjoy RMT games, good for them.
However, this example is what destroys the game for me. The fact that you can pay five bucks for the hat makes the hat worthless to me, and then the game lose all it's fun.
I have five bucks. I CAN buy the hat. But I want to play a game where I CANNOT buy the hat, but I have to do something in the game ot get it.
I can relate to this to a point. I do love the whole ordeal to get X or Y item in game with blood&sweat, there is a big satisfaction when you get your +9 Sword to Killemall as opposed to get it from someone and start brandishing it left and right.
But there is something else that might be need to take into consideration. How tough is going to be obtain that same sword on your own!
As an example, I do play RF Online, and I love it( I actually stopped playing Anarchy Online with sub for it). The good stuff drops from Pitbosses and unfortunately, tackling them is a race wide effort!. So IIMHO, there is a new light that needs to be examined here.
How tough/balanced is the actual game mechanics to get the same item ? Is it too discouraging that Id have to resort to RMT?
A month ago, I bought a neat hat for my character in Florensia for about five dollars. It looks cool and it gives me some bonus HP. I think I'm going to buy the guild robe this month. I enjoy being able to pick up little extras here and there either for looks or bonuses.
I think almost everyone here agrees that the more types of games that exist the better it is because players can choose what they like to play. You might not like my game, I might not like yours, but taking away your game doesn't help mine, and vice a versa.
So if people enjoy RMT games, good for them.
However, this example is what destroys the game for me. The fact that you can pay five bucks for the hat makes the hat worthless to me, and then the game lose all it's fun.
I have five bucks. I CAN buy the hat. But I want to play a game where I CANNOT buy the hat, but I have to do something in the game ot get it.
How tough/balanced is the actual game mechanics to get the same item ? Is it too discouraging that Id have to resort to RMT?
That sentence there scares the life out of me
Wouldn't the devs/producers of such a game just make it so difficult to get said items 'knowing' that in the end you'll just end up paying for them, making them bags full of loot?
...of course then, the more people who bought the stuff in the end, the bigger justification to roll the rmt structure into more 'mainstream' games.
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep. ~Navajo Proverb
You have entirely too much bias in your rebuttal. In fact, this is much less an argument than a bit of a rant. It's clear you're against rmt, and that is just fine. But your argument completely ignores simple facts such as the massive existing rmt market (which would be even higher were it legitimized) and the very basic fact that any mmo is already "unfair" due to vaying degress of available time to play a game (having more time to play a mmo is just as unbalancing as purchasing items). You must recognize that your opinion does not speak for the majority of mmo gamers. How could you possibly expect game developers to take you seriously when they're staring at a 2 billion / year rmt market? It's clear that many gamers have no issue at all with rmt.
Missed the whole point. Buying virtual items without actually playing isn't a game. Just because there is a big market for it doesn't make it gameplay. If everybody is doing it argument doesn't make it valid. You also miss the whole point of what a game is. You are worrying about how to maximize your time versus money shows this. Buying items does not make a game, getting the items is the game. If you feel it is unfun to get some items in a game or do not have enough time to play a game to get items then you would be doing yourself a favor by not doing it. That is like saying you want the trophy for playing football but do not have the time to play it so you just purchase the trophy. Does that make sense?
Also when you do buy items you only encourage developers to produce the same timesinks in their games that you do not have time for or do not find fun. Then you get in the whole circle of skipping what you are paying for again the gameplay to obtain items with swiping of a credit card. My argument is RMT isn't a gameplay style. RMT is the anti-game. You are paying to bypass what the game is, gameplay to obtain some virtual item. The experience of getting the item is what the game is, not actually having the item. If you buy it you will never have that satisfaction. Same goes for gold. If it requires too much gold to get items in a game and you didn't purchase gold by swiping your card, the devs would either lose subscribers or change how much gold it took to buy said item.
The game itself is the gameplay you skip that you have nothing.
It's easy to dismiss anything one wants to dismiss with an oversimplified black and white analogy that allows for no nuance. It's much harder to honestly debate the pros and cons of an issue. The argument posited here essentially boils down to a claim that, in RMT games, no one ever logs in to play the game and do anything other than buy items. Upon reflection, it's not hard to see how such a claim is patently absurd. You can argue the wisdom of someone engaging in RMT transactions to no end, but why would he ever want to buy something if he had no intention of partaking in any aspect of the game play? There may be vices to certain implementations of RMT, but the argument here is not a cogent one. It sounds more like a rationalization for a feeling of inferiority which isn't even warranted in the first place and that is being used as an argumentative bludgeon to persuade people to play games a certain way.
I hope some read this and step back and think about what games are and how buying items goes against everything I game is meant to be. It is hard to believe a writer for a game site would agree with the practice of RMT considering the journey to the items in games is the game itself. Take this away and you are left with only items and no game.
That is certainly NOT true. You are only bypassing PART of the game, not all of it. For example, you skip the part of getting that epic sword by buying it with RMT, but you still get to USE it on mobs later.
I am NOT arguing that this is fair. I am just saying that there is a undeniable logic and incentive of WHY people are doing it.
And note that people are NOT buying every item, and only those that requires grinding. You can also argue that once you have grind daily quests, grinding fewer does NOT detract from the game because you have already gone through that content.
I think it is ok to make an argument against RMT because of fairness concern but certainly it does MAKE SENSE to players on some level.
You have entirely too much bias in your rebuttal. In fact, this is much less an argument than a bit of a rant. It's clear you're against rmt, and that is just fine. But your argument completely ignores simple facts such as the massive existing rmt market (which would be even higher were it legitimized) and the very basic fact that any mmo is already "unfair" due to vaying degress of available time to play a game (having more time to play a mmo is just as unbalancing as purchasing items). You must recognize that your opinion does not speak for the majority of mmo gamers. How could you possibly expect game developers to take you seriously when they're staring at a 2 billion / year rmt market? It's clear that many gamers have no issue at all with rmt.
Missed the whole point. Buying virtual items without actually playing isn't a game. Just because there is a big market for it doesn't make it gameplay. If everybody is doing it argument doesn't make it valid. You also miss the whole point of what a game is. You are worrying about how to maximize your time versus money shows this. Buying items does not make a game, getting the items is the game. If you feel it is unfun to get some items in a game or do not have enough time to play a game to get items then you would be doing yourself a favor by not doing it. That is like saying you want the trophy for playing football but do not have the time to play it so you just purchase the trophy. Does that make sense?
Also when you do buy items you only encourage developers to produce the same timesinks in their games that you do not have time for or do not find fun. Then you get in the whole circle of skipping what you are paying for again the gameplay to obtain items with swiping of a credit card. My argument is RMT isn't a gameplay style. RMT is the anti-game. You are paying to bypass what the game is, gameplay to obtain some virtual item. The experience of getting the item is what the game is, not actually having the item. If you buy it you will never have that satisfaction. Same goes for gold. If it requires too much gold to get items in a game and you didn't purchase gold by swiping your card, the devs would either lose subscribers or change how much gold it took to buy said item.
The game itself is the gameplay you skip that you have nothing.
It's easy to dismiss anything one wants to dismiss with an oversimplified black and white analogy that allows for no nuance. It's much harder to honestly debate the pros and cons of an issue. The argument posited here essentially boils down to a claim that, in RMT games, no one ever logs in to play the game and do anything other than buy items. Upon reflection, it's not hard to see how such a claim is patently absurd. You can argue the wisdom of someone engaging in RMT transactions to no end, but why would he ever want to buy something if he had no intention of partaking in any aspect of the game play? There may be vices to certain implementations of RMT, but the argument here is not a cogent one. It sounds more like a rationalization for a feeling of inferiority which isn't even warranted in the first place and that is being used as an argumentative bludgeon to persuade people to play games a certain way.
I think can sum this up succinctly.
SOME people enjoy getting the items. Doing the quest, grinding the mobs, etc. If you let them buy the item, the fun of getting the item is ruined.
SOME people enjoy owning the items. Doing the quest, grinding the mobs is not as fun as being able to have the item, so being able to pay for the item makes the game even more fun.
Well as far as i am concerned the monthly fee we pay for our respective games is for a number of things, its for items, fun, comraderie(sp)? i do not see an issue where people buy gold or items. i mean i played alot of mmo's, and the fact is for most of them if i purchased anything which i have on occasion, is this. They did help but not make my avatar extremely powerful. Alot of people do not have time to do numerous hours on end raids its a simple fact, and should they be turned down for raids/groups like happens in wow ALL THE TIME because they are not well enough geared? no they shouldnt. They even have an addon that will calculate a players gear score. Its not there fault some people have no lifes and tons of time to play a game while they work, have families and other responsibilites. they shouldnt be shorted due to that fact. They pay the money to play the deserve to experience the ENTIRE game. and if buying gold, or gear gives them a chance to have a par type suit to be able to do those things then it should be allowed.
I find its the harcore gamers that complain most about ingame purchases, because they "think" they have earned something because they have no lifes, are unemployed or have no families and obtain items. i pay as much as them and there the ones that are usually saying "QQ your gear is to low" not the average joe player. I personally play games to have fun with online friends, getting items is a perk not a manditory reason for playing. They can easily set it up so that you can purchase items that will not give you an outstanding advantage and let the "leet" kids keep there "earned" items but still allow the average joe the opportunity to get good enough gear not to be passed over by the leet gamers.
And btw, alot of you hardcore gamers have the ability to do things ingame alot of us might not, but we have something you apparently dont have, money. and if i want to spend my hard earned cash to enjoy the full aspects of a specific game i should have that right. How would you like to be told that you can only play so much a week? say 5 hours a week or so? to keep balance? i am sure you would complain about that. well we should have the right to catch up to you without huge investments of time. You are the first ones that complain about the easy learning curve and the fact that some games like daoc and such allow players ease of leveling and doing other things that took you longer to do. there has to be a happy medium somewhere.
Oh and btw i would consider myself a hardcore gamer, i have numerous accounts across numerous games, And i still feel sorry for those who dont have the time i do to play. and i hate when i get into a raid and i see us waiting 30 min to add 1 person when i see 20 lfg and they get passed over because someone thinks there gear is to low. how are they supposed to increase there gear if there never allowed to play? is that fair to them when they pay the same fee i do?
My point is that buying virtual items for real life cash is not a playstyle. Swiping a credit card and getting an item without actually playing the game is just obtaining virtual items without the game part. I will not condemn a playstyle but RMT isn't a playstyle at all it is the anti-game.
It is not a playstyle for you. It is for others. Why doyou object to those people having a game that they find fun?
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I see your point. But this creates a two classes of players, one who buys his way through the game and the other who works his way through the game. Where is the fairness in that?
In some MMOs, yes. But then one has to question why someone knows there is an inequity in classes and dislikes that model, yet continues to play it and complain about it.
I like pirate-themed MMOs. You'll find me in PotBS but never in Voyage Century. You'll find me playing Puzzle Pirates on the regular servers but not the doubloon servers. I have nothing agaisnt VC or its players, nor do I have anything against the doubloon servers. It would take a certain amount of arrogance on my part to play VC and complain that it's unfair that others can buy their way through the game, no?
Originally posted by zaxxon23
You have entirely too much bias in your rebuttal. In fact, this is much less an argument than a bit of a rant. It's clear you're against rmt, and that is just fine. But your argument completely ignores simple facts such as the massive existing rmt market (which would be even higher were it legitimized) and the very basic fact that any mmo is already "unfair" due to vaying degress of available time to play a game (having more time to play a mmo is just as unbalancing as purchasing items). You must recognize that your opinion does not speak for the majority of mmo gamers. How could you possibly expect game developers to take you seriously when they're staring at a 2 billion / year rmt market? It's clear that many gamers have no issue at all with rmt.
^--- cool post (and cool nick)
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
My point is that buying virtual items for real life cash is not a playstyle. Swiping a credit card and getting an item without actually playing the game is just obtaining virtual items without the game part. I will not condemn a playstyle but RMT isn't a playstyle at all it is the anti-game.
It is not a playstyle for you. It is for others. Why doyou object to those people having a game that they find fun?
This is just my theory, but there is quite likely a subset of people who play MMOs as an escape mechanism and want the playing field to be leveled a bit more (or sometimes even tipped in their favor) than they perceive the playing field in their real lives to be. If there's something that has the potential to upset that desired balance, it can be pretty unnerving.
This is just my theory, but there is quite likely a subset of people who play MMOs as an escape mechanism and want the playing field to be leveled a bit more (or sometimes even tipped in their favor) than they perceive the playing field in their real lives to be. If there's something that has the potential to upset that desired balance, it can be pretty unnerving.
I agree. But wouldn't it make more sense to just play the MMOs where they aren't facing unnerving issues rather than the ones where they know ahead of time that they will?
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
You have entirely too much bias in your rebuttal. In fact, this is much less an argument than a bit of a rant. It's clear you're against rmt, and that is just fine. But your argument completely ignores simple facts such as the massive existing rmt market (which would be even higher were it legitimized) and the very basic fact that any mmo is already "unfair" due to vaying degress of available time to play a game (having more time to play a mmo is just as unbalancing as purchasing items). You must recognize that your opinion does not speak for the majority of mmo gamers. How could you possibly expect game developers to take you seriously when they're staring at a 2 billion / year rmt market? It's clear that many gamers have no issue at all with rmt.
Missed the whole point. Buying virtual items without actually playing isn't a game. Just because there is a big market for it doesn't make it gameplay. If everybody is doing it argument doesn't make it valid. You also miss the whole point of what a game is. You are worrying about how to maximize your time versus money shows this. Buying items does not make a game, getting the items is the game. If you feel it is unfun to get some items in a game or do not have enough time to play a game to get items then you would be doing yourself a favor by not doing it. That is like saying you want the trophy for playing football but do not have the time to play it so you just purchase the trophy. Does that make sense?
Also when you do buy items you only encourage developers to produce the same timesinks in their games that you do not have time for or do not find fun. Then you get in the whole circle of skipping what you are paying for again the gameplay to obtain items with swiping of a credit card. My argument is RMT isn't a gameplay style. RMT is the anti-game. You are paying to bypass what the game is, gameplay to obtain some virtual item. The experience of getting the item is what the game is, not actually having the item. If you buy it you will never have that satisfaction. Same goes for gold. If it requires too much gold to get items in a game and you didn't purchase gold by swiping your card, the devs would either lose subscribers or change how much gold it took to buy said item.
The game itself is the gameplay you skip that you have nothing.
It's easy to dismiss anything one wants to dismiss with an oversimplified black and white analogy that allows for no nuance. It's much harder to honestly debate the pros and cons of an issue. The argument posited here essentially boils down to a claim that, in RMT games, no one ever logs in to play the game and do anything other than buy items. Upon reflection, it's not hard to see how such a claim is patently absurd. You can argue the wisdom of someone engaging in RMT transactions to no end, but why would he ever want to buy something if he had no intention of partaking in any aspect of the game play? There may be vices to certain implementations of RMT, but the argument here is not a cogent one. It sounds more like a rationalization for a feeling of inferiority which isn't even warranted in the first place and that is being used as an argumentative bludgeon to persuade people to play games a certain way.
I think can sum this up succinctly.
SOME people enjoy getting the items. Doing the quest, grinding the mobs, etc. If you let them buy the item, the fun of getting the item is ruined.
SOME people enjoy owning the items. Doing the quest, grinding the mobs is not as fun as being able to have the item, so being able to pay for the item makes the game even more fun.
This is strange... are you trying to say that different people enjoy different types of things? Clearly, one of these groups must be wrong!
Certainly you are not advocating that each type of person be allowed to pay/play in the style that makes them happy, are you? Because that sounds completely ridiculous...
I've changed my mind, I want all games to have RMT! But lets not stop at the usual experience potions and stamina and magic buffs... no that's for dogs! No I want to be able to buy EVERY item, I mean why raid for that for set of armor? Christ I have to join a guild and make friends for that and heaven forbid play the game. I SAY NO MORE! With my credit card with its bonus stamina of +9 (but -7 intelligence ) I deserve better, if I want an epic sword I pay for it, epic armor? Hell yeah baby my credit rating pwns!! But wait I'm not the right level..... Hah! No problem after all my credit card its the shitz!
I'm not some poor person with a bad credit rating that grinds away for hours at a time to achieve some goal. I say to them get a better job failing that hope for a communist revolution, because even in the virtual world it don't matter how good you are or how hard you try its how deep your pockets are. So quit moaning like ….like some loud and... noisy and get a job, log in and spend!
I've changed my mind, I want all games to have RMT! But lets not stop at the usual experience potions and stamina and magic buffs... no that's for dogs! No I want to be able to buy EVERY item, I mean why raid for that for set of armor? Christ I have to join a guild and make friends for that and heaven forbid play the game. I SAY NO MORE! With my credit card with its bonus stamina of +9 (but -7 intelligence ) I deserve better, if I want an epic sword I pay for it, epic armor? Hell yeah baby my credit rating pwns!! But wait I'm not the right level..... Hah! No problem after all my credit card its the shitz! I'm not some poor person with a bad credit rating that grinds away for hours at a time to achieve some goal. I say to them get a better job failing that hope for a communist revolution, because even in the virtual world it don't matter how good you are or how hard you try its how deep your pockets are. So quit moaning like ….like some loud and... noisy and get a job, log in and spend! /Sarcasm off
yea i guess its better to alienate players who cannot spend as much time since clearly you believe even though they pay there money they are not entitled to enjoy the entire content of the game. because people i assume like you hold them back. because they dont have hours on end to camp stuff, or raid for stuff so therefore they are second class players and dont deserve to enjoy the game they pay for.
in that case to make it balanced and fair there gonna get rid of all loot, levels aa's mls whatever your game of choice has. that way its all static content everyone has the same sword, same armor same level same skills so that way everyone can enjoy the game they pay for. but i bet you would complain about that as well.
I've changed my mind, I want all games to have RMT! But lets not stop at the usual experience potions and stamina and magic buffs... no that's for dogs! No I want to be able to buy EVERY item, I mean why raid for that for set of armor? Christ I have to join a guild and make friends for that and heaven forbid play the game. I SAY NO MORE! With my credit card with its bonus stamina of +9 (but -7 intelligence ) I deserve better, if I want an epic sword I pay for it, epic armor? Hell yeah baby my credit rating pwns!! But wait I'm not the right level..... Hah! No problem after all my credit card its the shitz! I'm not some poor person with a bad credit rating that grinds away for hours at a time to achieve some goal. I say to them get a better job failing that hope for a communist revolution, because even in the virtual world it don't matter how good you are or how hard you try its how deep your pockets are. So quit moaning like ….like some loud and... noisy and get a job, log in and spend! /Sarcasm off
yea i guess its better to alienate players who cannot spend as much time since clearly you believe even though they pay there money they are not entitled to enjoy the entire content of the game. because people i assume like you hold them back. because they dont have hours on end to camp stuff, or raid for stuff so therefore they are second class players and dont deserve to enjoy the game they pay for.
in that case to make it balanced and fair there gonna get rid of all loot, levels aa's mls whatever your game of choice has. that way its all static content everyone has the same sword, same armor same level same skills so that way everyone can enjoy the game they pay for. but i bet you would complain about that as well.
your right.
/sarcasm off.
I don't believe it is necessary to spend over 10 hours a week on a game to get the most out of it. I mean most MMOs will be around for years so you have a long time to explore the content, it took me over a year to cap my everquest avatar. Just because some players are not patient enough does not justify RMT unbalancing the game. And what about those who have money and time to spend on a game.
now john who works 12 hours a day doesnt have 9hours to waste"enjoy" as you say on a grind game. why should he suffer for entertainment just to farm gold. farming is boring -- you know it . i know it.. the chinese know it. john works for 3 hours and is able to buy that 3k gold and have it when he sits down that night to play his favorite game.. where does it hurt you?nowhere he doesnt tell you he bought it and he doesnt interrupt and compete for your crappy gold farm spot.
mind your own damn business and enjoy your game. leave me to my own way of enjoying it.
your the one who doesnt want to spend money on a game for a few exrtas and have fun with it. go buy gold, see how you feel when you go and buy that purty epic that would have wasted 14 hours to farm all the materials. games arent communistic and there will always be a RMT. be it legit through company sponsored or through harm and chaose by hackers and chinese farmers.
yes i buy wow gold.. so sue me.. i enjoy the game in the content rather than the sitting wasting my time on a task that serves NO purpose. i am level 80 why in gods good name should i go out and kill 6000 yetis so i can continue to play in a casual style? did i not venture 80 levels and a total of 7 days ingame played to beable to experience the end as i see fit?
my guild used to sell gold to each other, mark played the AH or farmed because he liked to do, it calmed him down from work.
susan doesnt like to sit and repeatedly do the same thing for something just to be able to go raid tommorrow night. why should she be banned for buying marks extra gold he made. only difference is that he sold his gold for some extra profit in real life to a gold company. and she bought it fromthe same company.
alternate ending is she pays for the gold and never recieves the gold. susan is now mad because she got nowhere and now has to waste hours on something NOT fun to her. the thought .. why should i play if it isnt fun.. /quit
^ and yes this happens ALOT. i know, ive been on the bad end of the exchange.
-----------------------------------------------
now have he company provide it and have a regular person farm for 2 hours. dived how much gold he makes in half and you got gold per hour; now charge the gold you could make by spending 1 hr farming. cost vs time. your playing a fricken video game.
alternate ending? he thinks about it and goes about his business
your arguement? --> because it isnt fair or right to the one who doesnt buy gold. ohrly? and now tell me why i should sit and get fat for hours doing something i dont enjoy.. i can go watch tv and watch commercial marathons that would be better.
how does the person buying gold affect you with the stament and correct fixes i mentioned in my earlier post? item cost cap. = no inflation.= player who bought gold buys MORE of your item.. omg you maek more gold nao. and your complaining...
the gold buyer improves the game by buying directly to the company; oh my god! with that extra money you get better content .. WOOW.
more people will stay to play and would rather buy gold than go mindlessly kill droves of mobs for the same exact result.
is sitting there pushing buttons going to boost yourself esteem because you had 12 hours to waste? no you can go be doing something productive if you bought the gold and went on your way.
NO MATTER WHAT GAME. there will always be the guy who wants to buy the ingame extras to get to the end just a bit faster.. we are human, if it is seen as frivelous(sp?) we will find a way around it.
RMT is inevitable because the alternative is spending resources to stop illegal transactions and repair damaged accounts. good going.
i bought the game to enjoy it. not sit and be bored so i can the nexperience the end .. oh nope.. bored there too cause i have to farm as well because if i buy gold imma get banned. let ME play how I want to play, you mind your own character.
- as a final note. no CONTENT shouldbt skipped if it progressed the character. tell me how farming the SAME mob over and over progresses your character or story line? which in turn no. i dont advocate buying ITEMS. gold is a currency.. a medium between things and is allowable in RMT. because it helps everyone they buy from.. where otehrwise .. they wouldnt be buying now would they?
now john who works 12 hours a day doesnt have 9hours to waste"enjoy" as you say on a grind game. why should he suffer for entertainment just to farm gold. farming is boring -- you know it . i know it.. the chinese know it. john works for 3 hours and is able to buy that 3k gold and have it when he sits down that night to play his favorite game.. where does it hurt you?nowhere he doesnt tell you he bought it and he doesnt interrupt and compete for your crappy gold farm spot. mind your own damn business and enjoy your game. leave me to my own way of enjoying it. your the one who doesnt want to spend money on a game for a few exrtas and have fun with it. go buy gold, see how you feel when you go and buy that purty epic that would have wasted 14 hours to farm all the materials. games arent communistic and there will always be a RMT. be it legit through company sponsored or through harm and chaose by hackers and chinese farmers.
yes i buy wow gold.. so sue me.. i enjoy the game in the content rather than the sitting wasting my time on a task that serves NO purpose. i am level 80 why in gods good name should i go out and kill 6000 yetis so i can continue to play in a casual style? did i not venture 80 levels and a total of 7 days ingame played to beable to experience the end as i see fit? my guild used to sell gold to each other, mark played the AH or farmed because he liked to do, it calmed him down from work. susan doesnt like to sit and repeatedly do the same thing for something just to be able to go raid tommorrow night. why should she be banned for buying marks extra gold he made. only difference is that he sold his gold for some extra profit in real life to a gold company. and she bought it fromthe same company. alternate ending is she pays for the gold and never recieves the gold. susan is now mad because she got nowhere and now has to waste hours on something NOT fun to her. the thought .. why should i play if it isnt fun.. /quit ^ and yes this happens ALOT. i know, ive been on the bad end of the exchange. ----------------------------------------------- now have he company provide it and have a regular person farm for 2 hours. dived how much gold he makes in half and you got gold per hour; now charge the gold you could make by spending 1 hr farming. cost vs time. your playing a fricken video game. alternate ending? he thinks about it and goes about his business
your arguement? --> because it isnt fair or right to the one who doesnt buy gold. ohrly? and now tell me why i should sit and get fat for hours doing something i dont enjoy.. i can go watch tv and watch commercial marathons that would be better. how does the person buying gold affect you with the stament and correct fixes i mentioned in my earlier post? item cost cap. = no inflation.= player who bought gold buys MORE of your item.. omg you maek more gold nao. and your complaining... the gold buyer improves the game by buying directly to the company; oh my god! with that extra money you get better content .. WOOW. more people will stay to play and would rather buy gold than go mindlessly kill droves of mobs for the same exact result. is sitting there pushing buttons going to boost yourself esteem because you had 12 hours to waste? no you can go be doing something productive if you bought the gold and went on your way.
NO MATTER WHAT GAME. there will always be the guy who wants to buy the ingame extras to get to the end just a bit faster.. we are human, if it is seen as frivelous(sp?) we will find a way around it. RMT is inevitable because the alternative is spending resources to stop illegal transactions and repair damaged accounts. good going.
i bought the game to enjoy it. not sit and be bored so i can the nexperience the end .. oh nope.. bored there too cause i have to farm as well because if i buy gold imma get banned. let ME play how I want to play, you mind your own character.
yes i know i repeated myself a few times .. but as ive seen you guys LOOOOVE to miss the point. as proof of point to your response earlier OP.
yes i would advocate gold sales in my own game. it wont be a mainstay and it doesnt affect the other players negatively. same for account buying/selling/trading in a FPS MMO. where skill is the factor not gearing or items. i can just as easily kill you with a glock as a magnum.
pertaining to my game;
due note. levels dont mean crap .. oh woopedy do . your level 40 gratz you played longer than me so what. it took you 3 months of hardcore farming gg. me im level 20 and raiding after 12 hours playtime.
currency is a major factor but limited in the style i setforth above; content is first and foremost rather than farming to be able to get there.
your a human. your hungry so you go eat food. first you gotta kill it and the heat it and then you can eat.
ah now your a logical human, you have a company that does that for you; you go to the store and buy your food and eat it.
----
and your stateing it is wrong in a video game we humans create.... then your saying commercial produce is wrong and we should all go back to benig hunters wasting hours on end each day just so we can eat for a meager hour.
I think people miss my point about good RMT and bad RMT and just want to boycott RMT in general. Do you know that RMT is used in most P2P games too? Are you going to boycott those? RMT is optional and should remain OPTIONAL, it shouldn't ever feel necessary. I might be naive, but I think a game that solely uses good RMT could work and just because it hasn't been done to great success to F2P games currently doesn't mean it won't work in the future. RMT used in P2P games currently:
3. Minigames (I believe both FFXI and the original EQ has paid for minigames, and although it's not quite RMT WoW's TCG is similar).
4. DLC Expansions
Are you going to boycott EVERY game that uses any form of these? You are going to be boycotting the majority of the MMO games (and console too, since they use DLC content that can give you an edge) in the future then.
Don't rule out RMT entirely just yet because F2P companies that rely on it for their income are just using bad forms of it.
The thing is, many monthly fee games are designed for people who basically have no lives.
Sure, in theory, everyone who pays $15 a month can experience everything in the game, but in practice, a fairly large chunk is only for those that play 12 hours a day or more (I wish I were kidding about this).
RMT games offer an alternative to those that actually have a job or something. They can substitute $$$ for time. And if you are one of those that has no life, you can probably play for free and sell the stuff to the people with $$$.
Boohoo i have no time to play this game i need to buy xyz item or gold or whatever.
Well maybe this game ISN'T for you but for the people who can spent 12 hours or whatever on it. Maybe you should find another game that cares for people with not enough time or has every damn item for sale so you can max your level and get every item from day 1. If you don't have time for that game don't play it but leave the rest of us who have the time to enjoy it and do something else with your time.
Do you guys when/if you buy single games go look up cheats and hacks so you can see the ending right away because you don't have time to play?
You have entirely too much bias in your rebuttal. In fact, this is much less an argument than a bit of a rant. It's clear you're against rmt, and that is just fine. But your argument completely ignores simple facts such as the massive existing rmt market (which would be even higher were it legitimized) and the very basic fact that any mmo is already "unfair" due to vaying degress of available time to play a game (having more time to play a mmo is just as unbalancing as purchasing items). You must recognize that your opinion does not speak for the majority of mmo gamers. How could you possibly expect game developers to take you seriously when they're staring at a 2 billion / year rmt market? It's clear that many gamers have no issue at all with rmt.
Missed the whole point. Buying virtual items without actually playing isn't a game. Just because there is a big market for it doesn't make it gameplay. If everybody is doing it argument doesn't make it valid. You also miss the whole point of what a game is. You are worrying about how to maximize your time versus money shows this. Buying items does not make a game, getting the items is the game. If you feel it is unfun to get some items in a game or do not have enough time to play a game to get items then you would be doing yourself a favor by not doing it. That is like saying you want the trophy for playing football but do not have the time to play it so you just purchase the trophy. Does that make sense?
Also when you do buy items you only encourage developers to produce the same timesinks in their games that you do not have time for or do not find fun. Then you get in the whole circle of skipping what you are paying for again the gameplay to obtain items with swiping of a credit card. My argument is RMT isn't a gameplay style. RMT is the anti-game. You are paying to bypass what the game is, gameplay to obtain some virtual item. The experience of getting the item is what the game is, not actually having the item. If you buy it you will never have that satisfaction. Same goes for gold. If it requires too much good to get items in a game and you didn't purchase gold, the devs would either lose subscribers or change how much gold it took to buy said item.
The game itself is the gameplay you skip that you have nothing.
Your bias is showing again. You are arguing on the basis of your opinion, not on the basis of fact. Your defintion of fun does not equal someone else's definition of fun. The sooner you realize this the better off you will be in life. Many people find it much more fun to buy some gear and kill mobs faster than to kill mobs slower to find the equipment. Yes, it does defeat in many ways the purpose of the game, but that is not the point here. The point is that people find different things to be fun. RMT may "ruin" the game for you, and for someone else RMT may be the one factor that keeps them playing and having fun. It's not up to you to judge whether that is right or wrong, and it's most certainly not up to you to decide what's fun for someone else.
Buying items isn't a playstyle it isn't a game at all. If the developers want me to go through the game at a certain pace then they will provide what I need in game to do so. If I find I am playing a game where I am not giving the tools to play the game, then I quit and chalk it up to bad game design or a game design that I find unfun.
You don't get it do you? I am not arguing the fact whether or not some people like it. I am arguing that it is the opposite of what video games are.
Comments
Missed the whole point. Buying virtual items without actually playing isn't a game. Just because there is a big market for it doesn't make it gameplay. If everybody is doing it argument doesn't make it valid. You also miss the whole point of what a game is. You are worrying about how to maximize your time versus money shows this. Buying items does not make a game, getting the items is the game. If you feel it is unfun to get some items in a game or do not have enough time to play a game to get items then you would be doing yourself a favor by not doing it. That is like saying you want the trophy for playing football but do not have the time to play it so you just purchase the trophy. Does that make sense?
Also when you do buy items you only encourage developers to produce the same timesinks in their games that you do not have time for or do not find fun. Then you get in the whole circle of skipping what you are paying for again the gameplay to obtain items with swiping of a credit card. My argument is RMT isn't a gameplay style. RMT is the anti-game. You are paying to bypass what the game is, gameplay to obtain some virtual item. The experience of getting the item is what the game is, not actually having the item. If you buy it you will never have that satisfaction. Same goes for gold. If it requires too much good to get items in a game and you didn't purchase gold, the devs would either lose subscribers or change how much gold it took to buy said item.
The game itself is the gameplay you skip that you have nothing.
Your bias is showing again. You are arguing on the basis of your opinion, not on the basis of fact. Your defintion of fun does not equal someone else's definition of fun. The sooner you realize this the better off you will be in life. Many people find it much more fun to buy some gear and kill mobs faster than to kill mobs slower to find the equipment. Yes, it does defeat in many ways the purpose of the game, but that is not the point here. The point is that people find different things to be fun. RMT may "ruin" the game for you, and for someone else RMT may be the one factor that keeps them playing and having fun. It's not up to you to judge whether that is right or wrong, and it's most certainly not up to you to decide what's fun for someone else.
I think almost everyone here agrees that the more types of games that exist the better it is because players can choose what they like to play. You might not like my game, I might not like yours, but taking away your game doesn't help mine, and vice a versa.
So if people enjoy RMT games, good for them.
However, this example is what destroys the game for me. The fact that you can pay five bucks for the hat makes the hat worthless to me, and then the game lose all it's fun.
I have five bucks. I CAN buy the hat. But I want to play a game where I CANNOT buy the hat, but I have to do something in the game ot get it.
I can relate to this to a point. I do love the whole ordeal to get X or Y item in game with blood&sweat, there is a big satisfaction when you get your +9 Sword to Killemall as opposed to get it from someone and start brandishing it left and right.
But there is something else that might be need to take into consideration. How tough is going to be obtain that same sword on your own!
As an example, I do play RF Online, and I love it( I actually stopped playing Anarchy Online with sub for it). The good stuff drops from Pitbosses and unfortunately, tackling them is a race wide effort!. So IIMHO, there is a new light that needs to be examined here.
How tough/balanced is the actual game mechanics to get the same item ? Is it too discouraging that Id have to resort to RMT?
just my little rambling on the topic
I think almost everyone here agrees that the more types of games that exist the better it is because players can choose what they like to play. You might not like my game, I might not like yours, but taking away your game doesn't help mine, and vice a versa.
So if people enjoy RMT games, good for them.
However, this example is what destroys the game for me. The fact that you can pay five bucks for the hat makes the hat worthless to me, and then the game lose all it's fun.
I have five bucks. I CAN buy the hat. But I want to play a game where I CANNOT buy the hat, but I have to do something in the game ot get it.
How tough/balanced is the actual game mechanics to get the same item ? Is it too discouraging that Id have to resort to RMT?
That sentence there scares the life out of me
Wouldn't the devs/producers of such a game just make it so difficult to get said items 'knowing' that in the end you'll just end up paying for them, making them bags full of loot?
...of course then, the more people who bought the stuff in the end, the bigger justification to roll the rmt structure into more 'mainstream' games.
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep. ~Navajo Proverb
Missed the whole point. Buying virtual items without actually playing isn't a game. Just because there is a big market for it doesn't make it gameplay. If everybody is doing it argument doesn't make it valid. You also miss the whole point of what a game is. You are worrying about how to maximize your time versus money shows this. Buying items does not make a game, getting the items is the game. If you feel it is unfun to get some items in a game or do not have enough time to play a game to get items then you would be doing yourself a favor by not doing it. That is like saying you want the trophy for playing football but do not have the time to play it so you just purchase the trophy. Does that make sense?
Also when you do buy items you only encourage developers to produce the same timesinks in their games that you do not have time for or do not find fun. Then you get in the whole circle of skipping what you are paying for again the gameplay to obtain items with swiping of a credit card. My argument is RMT isn't a gameplay style. RMT is the anti-game. You are paying to bypass what the game is, gameplay to obtain some virtual item. The experience of getting the item is what the game is, not actually having the item. If you buy it you will never have that satisfaction. Same goes for gold. If it requires too much gold to get items in a game and you didn't purchase gold by swiping your card, the devs would either lose subscribers or change how much gold it took to buy said item.
The game itself is the gameplay you skip that you have nothing.
It's easy to dismiss anything one wants to dismiss with an oversimplified black and white analogy that allows for no nuance. It's much harder to honestly debate the pros and cons of an issue. The argument posited here essentially boils down to a claim that, in RMT games, no one ever logs in to play the game and do anything other than buy items. Upon reflection, it's not hard to see how such a claim is patently absurd. You can argue the wisdom of someone engaging in RMT transactions to no end, but why would he ever want to buy something if he had no intention of partaking in any aspect of the game play? There may be vices to certain implementations of RMT, but the argument here is not a cogent one. It sounds more like a rationalization for a feeling of inferiority which isn't even warranted in the first place and that is being used as an argumentative bludgeon to persuade people to play games a certain way.
That is certainly NOT true. You are only bypassing PART of the game, not all of it. For example, you skip the part of getting that epic sword by buying it with RMT, but you still get to USE it on mobs later.
I am NOT arguing that this is fair. I am just saying that there is a undeniable logic and incentive of WHY people are doing it.
And note that people are NOT buying every item, and only those that requires grinding. You can also argue that once you have grind daily quests, grinding fewer does NOT detract from the game because you have already gone through that content.
I think it is ok to make an argument against RMT because of fairness concern but certainly it does MAKE SENSE to players on some level.
Missed the whole point. Buying virtual items without actually playing isn't a game. Just because there is a big market for it doesn't make it gameplay. If everybody is doing it argument doesn't make it valid. You also miss the whole point of what a game is. You are worrying about how to maximize your time versus money shows this. Buying items does not make a game, getting the items is the game. If you feel it is unfun to get some items in a game or do not have enough time to play a game to get items then you would be doing yourself a favor by not doing it. That is like saying you want the trophy for playing football but do not have the time to play it so you just purchase the trophy. Does that make sense?
Also when you do buy items you only encourage developers to produce the same timesinks in their games that you do not have time for or do not find fun. Then you get in the whole circle of skipping what you are paying for again the gameplay to obtain items with swiping of a credit card. My argument is RMT isn't a gameplay style. RMT is the anti-game. You are paying to bypass what the game is, gameplay to obtain some virtual item. The experience of getting the item is what the game is, not actually having the item. If you buy it you will never have that satisfaction. Same goes for gold. If it requires too much gold to get items in a game and you didn't purchase gold by swiping your card, the devs would either lose subscribers or change how much gold it took to buy said item.
The game itself is the gameplay you skip that you have nothing.
It's easy to dismiss anything one wants to dismiss with an oversimplified black and white analogy that allows for no nuance. It's much harder to honestly debate the pros and cons of an issue. The argument posited here essentially boils down to a claim that, in RMT games, no one ever logs in to play the game and do anything other than buy items. Upon reflection, it's not hard to see how such a claim is patently absurd. You can argue the wisdom of someone engaging in RMT transactions to no end, but why would he ever want to buy something if he had no intention of partaking in any aspect of the game play? There may be vices to certain implementations of RMT, but the argument here is not a cogent one. It sounds more like a rationalization for a feeling of inferiority which isn't even warranted in the first place and that is being used as an argumentative bludgeon to persuade people to play games a certain way.
I think can sum this up succinctly.
SOME people enjoy getting the items. Doing the quest, grinding the mobs, etc. If you let them buy the item, the fun of getting the item is ruined.
SOME people enjoy owning the items. Doing the quest, grinding the mobs is not as fun as being able to have the item, so being able to pay for the item makes the game even more fun.
Well as far as i am concerned the monthly fee we pay for our respective games is for a number of things, its for items, fun, comraderie(sp)? i do not see an issue where people buy gold or items. i mean i played alot of mmo's, and the fact is for most of them if i purchased anything which i have on occasion, is this. They did help but not make my avatar extremely powerful. Alot of people do not have time to do numerous hours on end raids its a simple fact, and should they be turned down for raids/groups like happens in wow ALL THE TIME because they are not well enough geared? no they shouldnt. They even have an addon that will calculate a players gear score. Its not there fault some people have no lifes and tons of time to play a game while they work, have families and other responsibilites. they shouldnt be shorted due to that fact. They pay the money to play the deserve to experience the ENTIRE game. and if buying gold, or gear gives them a chance to have a par type suit to be able to do those things then it should be allowed.
I find its the harcore gamers that complain most about ingame purchases, because they "think" they have earned something because they have no lifes, are unemployed or have no families and obtain items. i pay as much as them and there the ones that are usually saying "QQ your gear is to low" not the average joe player. I personally play games to have fun with online friends, getting items is a perk not a manditory reason for playing. They can easily set it up so that you can purchase items that will not give you an outstanding advantage and let the "leet" kids keep there "earned" items but still allow the average joe the opportunity to get good enough gear not to be passed over by the leet gamers.
And btw, alot of you hardcore gamers have the ability to do things ingame alot of us might not, but we have something you apparently dont have, money. and if i want to spend my hard earned cash to enjoy the full aspects of a specific game i should have that right. How would you like to be told that you can only play so much a week? say 5 hours a week or so? to keep balance? i am sure you would complain about that. well we should have the right to catch up to you without huge investments of time. You are the first ones that complain about the easy learning curve and the fact that some games like daoc and such allow players ease of leveling and doing other things that took you longer to do. there has to be a happy medium somewhere.
Oh and btw i would consider myself a hardcore gamer, i have numerous accounts across numerous games, And i still feel sorry for those who dont have the time i do to play. and i hate when i get into a raid and i see us waiting 30 min to add 1 person when i see 20 lfg and they get passed over because someone thinks there gear is to low. how are they supposed to increase there gear if there never allowed to play? is that fair to them when they pay the same fee i do?
It is not a playstyle for you. It is for others. Why doyou object to those people having a game that they find fun?
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
In some MMOs, yes. But then one has to question why someone knows there is an inequity in classes and dislikes that model, yet continues to play it and complain about it.
I like pirate-themed MMOs. You'll find me in PotBS but never in Voyage Century. You'll find me playing Puzzle Pirates on the regular servers but not the doubloon servers. I have nothing agaisnt VC or its players, nor do I have anything against the doubloon servers. It would take a certain amount of arrogance on my part to play VC and complain that it's unfair that others can buy their way through the game, no?
Originally posted by zaxxon23
You have entirely too much bias in your rebuttal. In fact, this is much less an argument than a bit of a rant. It's clear you're against rmt, and that is just fine. But your argument completely ignores simple facts such as the massive existing rmt market (which would be even higher were it legitimized) and the very basic fact that any mmo is already "unfair" due to vaying degress of available time to play a game (having more time to play a mmo is just as unbalancing as purchasing items). You must recognize that your opinion does not speak for the majority of mmo gamers. How could you possibly expect game developers to take you seriously when they're staring at a 2 billion / year rmt market? It's clear that many gamers have no issue at all with rmt.
^--- cool post (and cool nick)
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
It is not a playstyle for you. It is for others. Why doyou object to those people having a game that they find fun?
This is just my theory, but there is quite likely a subset of people who play MMOs as an escape mechanism and want the playing field to be leveled a bit more (or sometimes even tipped in their favor) than they perceive the playing field in their real lives to be. If there's something that has the potential to upset that desired balance, it can be pretty unnerving.
I agree. But wouldn't it make more sense to just play the MMOs where they aren't facing unnerving issues rather than the ones where they know ahead of time that they will?
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Missed the whole point. Buying virtual items without actually playing isn't a game. Just because there is a big market for it doesn't make it gameplay. If everybody is doing it argument doesn't make it valid. You also miss the whole point of what a game is. You are worrying about how to maximize your time versus money shows this. Buying items does not make a game, getting the items is the game. If you feel it is unfun to get some items in a game or do not have enough time to play a game to get items then you would be doing yourself a favor by not doing it. That is like saying you want the trophy for playing football but do not have the time to play it so you just purchase the trophy. Does that make sense?
Also when you do buy items you only encourage developers to produce the same timesinks in their games that you do not have time for or do not find fun. Then you get in the whole circle of skipping what you are paying for again the gameplay to obtain items with swiping of a credit card. My argument is RMT isn't a gameplay style. RMT is the anti-game. You are paying to bypass what the game is, gameplay to obtain some virtual item. The experience of getting the item is what the game is, not actually having the item. If you buy it you will never have that satisfaction. Same goes for gold. If it requires too much gold to get items in a game and you didn't purchase gold by swiping your card, the devs would either lose subscribers or change how much gold it took to buy said item.
The game itself is the gameplay you skip that you have nothing.
It's easy to dismiss anything one wants to dismiss with an oversimplified black and white analogy that allows for no nuance. It's much harder to honestly debate the pros and cons of an issue. The argument posited here essentially boils down to a claim that, in RMT games, no one ever logs in to play the game and do anything other than buy items. Upon reflection, it's not hard to see how such a claim is patently absurd. You can argue the wisdom of someone engaging in RMT transactions to no end, but why would he ever want to buy something if he had no intention of partaking in any aspect of the game play? There may be vices to certain implementations of RMT, but the argument here is not a cogent one. It sounds more like a rationalization for a feeling of inferiority which isn't even warranted in the first place and that is being used as an argumentative bludgeon to persuade people to play games a certain way.
I think can sum this up succinctly.
SOME people enjoy getting the items. Doing the quest, grinding the mobs, etc. If you let them buy the item, the fun of getting the item is ruined.
SOME people enjoy owning the items. Doing the quest, grinding the mobs is not as fun as being able to have the item, so being able to pay for the item makes the game even more fun.
This is strange... are you trying to say that different people enjoy different types of things? Clearly, one of these groups must be wrong!
Certainly you are not advocating that each type of person be allowed to pay/play in the style that makes them happy, are you? Because that sounds completely ridiculous...
I've changed my mind, I want all games to have RMT! But lets not stop at the usual experience potions and stamina and magic buffs... no that's for dogs! No I want to be able to buy EVERY item, I mean why raid for that for set of armor? Christ I have to join a guild and make friends for that and heaven forbid play the game. I SAY NO MORE! With my credit card with its bonus stamina of +9 (but -7 intelligence ) I deserve better, if I want an epic sword I pay for it, epic armor? Hell yeah baby my credit rating pwns!! But wait I'm not the right level.....
Hah! No problem after all my credit card its the shitz!
I'm not some poor person with a bad credit rating that grinds away for hours at a time to achieve some goal. I say to them get a better job failing that hope for a communist revolution, because even in the virtual world it don't matter how good you are or how hard you try its how deep your pockets are. So quit moaning like ….like some loud and... noisy and get a job, log in and spend!
/Sarcasm off
yea i guess its better to alienate players who cannot spend as much time since clearly you believe even though they pay there money they are not entitled to enjoy the entire content of the game. because people i assume like you hold them back. because they dont have hours on end to camp stuff, or raid for stuff so therefore they are second class players and dont deserve to enjoy the game they pay for.
in that case to make it balanced and fair there gonna get rid of all loot, levels aa's mls whatever your game of choice has. that way its all static content everyone has the same sword, same armor same level same skills so that way everyone can enjoy the game they pay for. but i bet you would complain about that as well.
your right.
/sarcasm off.
yea i guess its better to alienate players who cannot spend as much time since clearly you believe even though they pay there money they are not entitled to enjoy the entire content of the game. because people i assume like you hold them back. because they dont have hours on end to camp stuff, or raid for stuff so therefore they are second class players and dont deserve to enjoy the game they pay for.
in that case to make it balanced and fair there gonna get rid of all loot, levels aa's mls whatever your game of choice has. that way its all static content everyone has the same sword, same armor same level same skills so that way everyone can enjoy the game they pay for. but i bet you would complain about that as well.
your right.
/sarcasm off.
I don't believe it is necessary to spend over 10 hours a week on a game to get the most out of it. I mean most MMOs will be around for years so you have a long time to explore the content, it took me over a year to cap my everquest avatar. Just because some players are not patient enough does not justify RMT unbalancing the game. And what about those who have money and time to spend on a game.
now john who works 12 hours a day doesnt have 9hours to waste"enjoy" as you say on a grind game. why should he suffer for entertainment just to farm gold. farming is boring -- you know it . i know it.. the chinese know it. john works for 3 hours and is able to buy that 3k gold and have it when he sits down that night to play his favorite game.. where does it hurt you?nowhere he doesnt tell you he bought it and he doesnt interrupt and compete for your crappy gold farm spot.
mind your own damn business and enjoy your game. leave me to my own way of enjoying it.
your the one who doesnt want to spend money on a game for a few exrtas and have fun with it. go buy gold, see how you feel when you go and buy that purty epic that would have wasted 14 hours to farm all the materials. games arent communistic and there will always be a RMT. be it legit through company sponsored or through harm and chaose by hackers and chinese farmers.
yes i buy wow gold.. so sue me.. i enjoy the game in the content rather than the sitting wasting my time on a task that serves NO purpose. i am level 80 why in gods good name should i go out and kill 6000 yetis so i can continue to play in a casual style? did i not venture 80 levels and a total of 7 days ingame played to beable to experience the end as i see fit?
my guild used to sell gold to each other, mark played the AH or farmed because he liked to do, it calmed him down from work.
susan doesnt like to sit and repeatedly do the same thing for something just to be able to go raid tommorrow night. why should she be banned for buying marks extra gold he made. only difference is that he sold his gold for some extra profit in real life to a gold company. and she bought it fromthe same company.
alternate ending is she pays for the gold and never recieves the gold. susan is now mad because she got nowhere and now has to waste hours on something NOT fun to her. the thought .. why should i play if it isnt fun.. /quit
^ and yes this happens ALOT. i know, ive been on the bad end of the exchange.
-----------------------------------------------
now have he company provide it and have a regular person farm for 2 hours. dived how much gold he makes in half and you got gold per hour; now charge the gold you could make by spending 1 hr farming. cost vs time. your playing a fricken video game.
alternate ending? he thinks about it and goes about his business
your arguement? --> because it isnt fair or right to the one who doesnt buy gold. ohrly? and now tell me why i should sit and get fat for hours doing something i dont enjoy.. i can go watch tv and watch commercial marathons that would be better.
how does the person buying gold affect you with the stament and correct fixes i mentioned in my earlier post? item cost cap. = no inflation.= player who bought gold buys MORE of your item.. omg you maek more gold nao. and your complaining...
the gold buyer improves the game by buying directly to the company; oh my god! with that extra money you get better content .. WOOW.
more people will stay to play and would rather buy gold than go mindlessly kill droves of mobs for the same exact result.
is sitting there pushing buttons going to boost yourself esteem because you had 12 hours to waste? no you can go be doing something productive if you bought the gold and went on your way.
NO MATTER WHAT GAME. there will always be the guy who wants to buy the ingame extras to get to the end just a bit faster.. we are human, if it is seen as frivelous(sp?) we will find a way around it.
RMT is inevitable because the alternative is spending resources to stop illegal transactions and repair damaged accounts. good going.
i bought the game to enjoy it. not sit and be bored so i can the nexperience the end .. oh nope.. bored there too cause i have to farm as well because if i buy gold imma get banned. let ME play how I want to play, you mind your own character.
- as a final note. no CONTENT shouldbt skipped if it progressed the character. tell me how farming the SAME mob over and over progresses your character or story line? which in turn no. i dont advocate buying ITEMS. gold is a currency.. a medium between things and is allowable in RMT. because it helps everyone they buy from.. where otehrwise .. they wouldnt be buying now would they?
Umm.. Ditto?
yes i know i repeated myself a few times .. but as ive seen you guys LOOOOVE to miss the point. as proof of point to your response earlier OP.
yes i would advocate gold sales in my own game. it wont be a mainstay and it doesnt affect the other players negatively. same for account buying/selling/trading in a FPS MMO. where skill is the factor not gearing or items. i can just as easily kill you with a glock as a magnum.
pertaining to my game;
due note. levels dont mean crap .. oh woopedy do . your level 40 gratz you played longer than me so what. it took you 3 months of hardcore farming gg. me im level 20 and raiding after 12 hours playtime.
currency is a major factor but limited in the style i setforth above; content is first and foremost rather than farming to be able to get there.
Things easily obtained are ultimately shallow.
here is ther be all end all of RMT "examples":
your a human. your hungry so you go eat food. first you gotta kill it and the heat it and then you can eat.
ah now your a logical human, you have a company that does that for you; you go to the store and buy your food and eat it.
----
and your stateing it is wrong in a video game we humans create.... then your saying commercial produce is wrong and we should all go back to benig hunters wasting hours on end each day just so we can eat for a meager hour.
ponder that one please.
I think people miss my point about good RMT and bad RMT and just want to boycott RMT in general. Do you know that RMT is used in most P2P games too? Are you going to boycott those? RMT is optional and should remain OPTIONAL, it shouldn't ever feel necessary. I might be naive, but I think a game that solely uses good RMT could work and just because it hasn't been done to great success to F2P games currently doesn't mean it won't work in the future. RMT used in P2P games currently:
1. Paid Server Transfers
2. Paid Cosmetic Changes (WoW's gender/face/hair change feature).
3. Minigames (I believe both FFXI and the original EQ has paid for minigames, and although it's not quite RMT WoW's TCG is similar).
4. DLC Expansions
Are you going to boycott EVERY game that uses any form of these? You are going to be boycotting the majority of the MMO games (and console too, since they use DLC content that can give you an edge) in the future then.
Don't rule out RMT entirely just yet because F2P companies that rely on it for their income are just using bad forms of it.
The thing is, many monthly fee games are designed for people who basically have no lives.
Sure, in theory, everyone who pays $15 a month can experience everything in the game, but in practice, a fairly large chunk is only for those that play 12 hours a day or more (I wish I were kidding about this).
RMT games offer an alternative to those that actually have a job or something. They can substitute $$$ for time. And if you are one of those that has no life, you can probably play for free and sell the stuff to the people with $$$.
R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there
Well said OP.
Boohoo i have no time to play this game i need to buy xyz item or gold or whatever.
Well maybe this game ISN'T for you but for the people who can spent 12 hours or whatever on it. Maybe you should find another game that cares for people with not enough time or has every damn item for sale so you can max your level and get every item from day 1. If you don't have time for that game don't play it but leave the rest of us who have the time to enjoy it and do something else with your time.
Do you guys when/if you buy single games go look up cheats and hacks so you can see the ending right away because you don't have time to play?
Missed the whole point. Buying virtual items without actually playing isn't a game. Just because there is a big market for it doesn't make it gameplay. If everybody is doing it argument doesn't make it valid. You also miss the whole point of what a game is. You are worrying about how to maximize your time versus money shows this. Buying items does not make a game, getting the items is the game. If you feel it is unfun to get some items in a game or do not have enough time to play a game to get items then you would be doing yourself a favor by not doing it. That is like saying you want the trophy for playing football but do not have the time to play it so you just purchase the trophy. Does that make sense?
Also when you do buy items you only encourage developers to produce the same timesinks in their games that you do not have time for or do not find fun. Then you get in the whole circle of skipping what you are paying for again the gameplay to obtain items with swiping of a credit card. My argument is RMT isn't a gameplay style. RMT is the anti-game. You are paying to bypass what the game is, gameplay to obtain some virtual item. The experience of getting the item is what the game is, not actually having the item. If you buy it you will never have that satisfaction. Same goes for gold. If it requires too much good to get items in a game and you didn't purchase gold, the devs would either lose subscribers or change how much gold it took to buy said item.
The game itself is the gameplay you skip that you have nothing.
Your bias is showing again. You are arguing on the basis of your opinion, not on the basis of fact. Your defintion of fun does not equal someone else's definition of fun. The sooner you realize this the better off you will be in life. Many people find it much more fun to buy some gear and kill mobs faster than to kill mobs slower to find the equipment. Yes, it does defeat in many ways the purpose of the game, but that is not the point here. The point is that people find different things to be fun. RMT may "ruin" the game for you, and for someone else RMT may be the one factor that keeps them playing and having fun. It's not up to you to judge whether that is right or wrong, and it's most certainly not up to you to decide what's fun for someone else.
Buying items isn't a playstyle it isn't a game at all. If the developers want me to go through the game at a certain pace then they will provide what I need in game to do so. If I find I am playing a game where I am not giving the tools to play the game, then I quit and chalk it up to bad game design or a game design that I find unfun.
You don't get it do you? I am not arguing the fact whether or not some people like it. I am arguing that it is the opposite of what video games are.