I am willing to put in any amount of time I need to get a character in a game I enjoy to where I want him.
I have never and will never play a game with micro transactions and refuse to buy items to keep my guy at his peak, it is a ridiculous system that I will never subscribe too. If a game wants to charge some money to allow you to change the look of your character or get another hairstyle I couldn't care less, but as soon as it is any item that speeds up leveling, or increases any ability of a character or the rate at which they heal etc, then I will never play that game.
I don't get your sentiment on this. If i work 40 hours a week doing construction work and decide to work overtime for another 20 hours with overpay..i should get more money than somebody only able to put in 40 hours because i worked harder. Thats the natural order of things and it is quite fair. The guy that cannot put in the extra hours have no reason to complain he doesn't get paid as much since he doesn't put in the hours. This thinking is flawed since you could very well be putting in more hours just to reach the amount I'm being pay for my 40 hours of work. Nonsense You are talking about getting paid pr job where I'm talking about being paid pr hour. That's where your comment fails. Two people working the same job, same place, same seniority but different hours will never get paid the same. Not in the real world anyway unless you talk about getting paid pr job. Getting paid pr job doesn't make a good comparison to this discussion. The example fits well with two gamers playing the same game with the same tools available. Wrong. A player who knows how to organise his quests, arrange his crafting and harvest plans and fit them in each tour, will achieve a lot more than someone who goes out randomly and grind or do whatever comes to mind. Those who sit at a corner for hours camping the same mob might never learn the best of his character, or the game mechanics. RMT is a whole other issue that can't be compared with time. Time for most of us is free..money isn't. A gamer that can't put in the hours to get better gear than those that can shouldn't be able to obtain the same level of gear period.
I'm vehmently against RMT and i have absolutely no desire of evening the playingfield when it comes to gear. I'm a stout believer in everybody earning what they are willing or able to work for. If that creates an unbalance from rich to poor then i am fine with that. It is how it should be. This idea that we all should be equal is nonsense. Society doesn't work like that and neither should virtual worlds in MMORPGS with their own economy. That is what i consider fair. How can you justify somebody playing 10 hours a month able to obtain the same gear as somebody able to play 60 hours? It's called being efficient, if it takes you longer to what I did in 10 hours then how am I at fault? People who use RMT in games are just as likely buying efficiency to empower the little time they do have. It's when others that make it their business to stick their nose into what I am doing that creates the problem. So what I paid for my exp boost to level faster or I bought a new weapon to help me finish my quest I couldn't find a group for. I fail to see how this is unfair. If we both are PvPers and I can afford to buy some gear to kick ass then so be it. Professional sport players do it all the time and as long as it 's in the guidelines provided by the rules then what's the fuss?
Efficiency has nothing to do with it. You are bringing up a point about how somebody can accomplish more in 10 hours than a somebody spending 40. This is more nonsense considering you are answering a point i never made. Two people do not have the same advantages if one can only put in third of the time the other can. Trying to come up with a scenario where you are so uber you can do everything in half the time is beyond any logical point. You still don't have the advantages the other has when it comes to time regardless how well you are able to use it. The guy playing 40 hours can easily be the more effecient one..see how pointless your scenario is? Efficiency has everything to do with this. A game with rich content allows a lot of mini-maxing. Time spent on grinding may not always pays the best overall results. A couple of people cooperating can easily beat the lone wolf grinding camping snake 24/7. MMOs are complementary games, where people can complement each other if they want to. A tank+heal+dps trio can play for an hour and achieve far more than a lonely warrior soloing for 3 hours. The guy playing for 40 hours without any idea what to do and randomly pick a spot to grind will definitely be far less effective in achieving something. Fact is, a team of idiots with no idea on how to clear a dungeon can wipe hours and comes out empty handed, while a team of well coordinated players can clean it in an hour and get all the loots.
But the most important point is, why should the developer reward you because you spent your lifetime online? You pay the same money, you use up a lot more bandwidth. You should be lucky not being charged more.
Sometime I feel like the idea of charging games by hours online. In a way, gamers like you are abusing the public sharable good called the game server.
MY god dude you are an agitator. Nothing in all your counter arguments and post proves anything. In the end you are just blurting out cool sounding words to make your point (flawed one) come across.
Its maddening beyoned belife that you actually think that more time invested should not give a higher Reward. What planet are you from Mars?
You sound just like the old Communist party in my country. Somehow you all got the Idee that everyone should always be en equal footing. LIFE ISENT LIKE THAT, get a hint. Not everyone can become a fire figther, police officer lawyer or a Doctor. Life is unfair that you cant spend as mush time playing a video game, and that sucks for you. But to say that others should not get a bigger Reward for playing more is kinda retarded.
Where do I even begin?
Its maddening beyond belief that you actually think that more money invested should not give a higher reward
Some people have time to invest, let them do that and get a reward. Others have money to invest, let them get their reward as well.
Life is unfair, as you say, so do not complain about the fairness involved in RMT. Just deal with it.
Your point of view is "kinda retarded."
In the end its your money boys, im not gona stop you from spending your money on 1,0,1,0,0, if that gets your thrill be my guest, the 24/7 crowed will be able to live off you, you understand this right?? If RMT gets implemented in a big way, those that play more will be able to sell there stuff and make a living off your IRL working.
And even if they cant sell the stuff they will still be miles head of the people that buy stuff, forcing the RMT buyers to buy even more to keep up, its one nasty cycle but im thru trying to help you as with any addict, You cant help people who dont want to help themeselfs..... so please go head and spend your IRL cash in virtual Nothing ness HAHAHA
ps: You all do understand that you are buying thin Air right??? the stuff you pruchese ingames Do not exist per say and have no lasting value.... Its scaming you in a sick way and you are here defending it... Muhaha
And how are your monthly fees any different? Or a night at the movies? Or a day at an amusement park? You still walk away with nothing.
a subsription for a magazine an internet conection or game access cant be compared to buying Items ingame. On one hand you are paying for a service on the other one you are pimping out your virtual avatar for IRL money.
Going to the movies and having a fun day at the amusment park actually gives you somthing to take away memories, and a fun experience. There are also alot of movies that are Dramas that bring up serious issues that needs adressing. Your virtual sword wont bring you anny insight into the plight of people in a third world country for instance... the movies might. Also time spent with Friends and family at the amusment park taking pitchures etc, you can come back to later, both to talk about and remember. When your kidds grow up they might come home one night and say; Hey dad you remember that old ride we used to take its still there I took my son there yeasterday. Your new shine virtuaL ROBE wont bring you this....
Buying Items online cant be compared to that its more in line with going to get a new Stereo for your car, Or new cloths. THe actuall action of buying the virtual goods is like going to a store IRL except you are buying THIN AIR haha. If you cant see the diffrence Im not gona argue with you, but you make one hell of a customer, you are a sellers dream come true..
My point stands If you think people will ever respect you for bying items (once and zeros) online you best think again. I will actually be so bold to say that it might be the closest to a real loser as you can get. You couldent hack it so you used IRL money to buy some thin Air online so you could be as cool as that guy who worked a few weeks to get it, HAHAHA
Hehe here we go again with one of those super emotional topics. You guys sure take these games serious huh? Why else would you keep yapping the same shit about 'achieving' this and achieving that in a game...
You seem so desperate to be ahead of people since you have the ability to invest more time and RMT prevents you from beeing little gods showing off. <- That's the only reason you whine about this non-issue.
Tell you what. No one in the real world gives a flying fuck about this. Those that spend a few dollars to make a certain NON-FUN aspect of the game easier/faster or to just keep up with their buddies due to less time available will continue to do so and there is nothing you can do about it.
Now lets say a super mmo comes out that has the goldselling prevented (in whatever possible way) the only thing that would happen is that said players with less time will get themselfes a bot program to get the job done. So what then? Having a bunch of stasi-gm's running around ingame and talking nonstop to evry player to make sure he isn't afk? Seriously that would get annoying.
Yeah I probably shouldn't post here because I find this anti-rmt thing so unbelievably silly that I can't even describe it but meh.
Hehe here we go again with one of those super emotional topics. You guys sure take these games serious huh? Why else would you keep yapping the same shit about 'achieving' this and achieving that in a game... You seem so desperate to be ahead of people since you have the ability to invest more time and RMT prevents you from beeing little gods showing off. <- That's the only reason you whine about this non-issue. Tell you what. No one in the real world gives a flying fuck about this. Those that spend a few dollars to make a certain NON-FUN aspect of the game easier/faster or to just keep up with their buddies due to less time available will continue to do so and there is nothing you can do about it. Now lets say a super mmo comes out that has the goldselling prevented (in whatever possible way) the only thing that would happen is that said players with less time will get themselfes a bot program to get the job done. So what then? Having a bunch of stasi-gm's running around ingame and talking nonstop to evry player to make sure he isn't afk? Seriously that would get annoying. Yeah I probably shouldn't post here because I find this anti-rmt thing so unbelievably silly that I can't even describe it but meh.
Firs off I do not endgame Raid in mmos, im not hardcore that i need to show off my virtual items and play 24/7. My main game is EVE and we all know you dont have to play that game to advance.
But RMT is not a good modle its a SCAM! the people that get suckerd into buying Virtual items (thin Air) gets SCAMED that is my POINT!
And the People defending RMT transactions... my god. You actually think buying made up items and gear for IRL cash is a sound healthy thing to be doing??? ITs like you where an ARAB buying SAND from the nereast peedler when you could get if for free if you walked outside....
Hehe here we go again with one of those super emotional topics. You guys sure take these games serious huh? Why else would you keep yapping the same shit about 'achieving' this and achieving that in a game... You seem so desperate to be ahead of people since you have the ability to invest more time and RMT prevents you from beeing little gods showing off. <- That's the only reason you whine about this non-issue. Tell you what. No one in the real world gives a flying fuck about this. Those that spend a few dollars to make a certain NON-FUN aspect of the game easier/faster or to just keep up with their buddies due to less time available will continue to do so and there is nothing you can do about it. Now lets say a super mmo comes out that has the goldselling prevented (in whatever possible way) the only thing that would happen is that said players with less time will get themselfes a bot program to get the job done. So what then? Having a bunch of stasi-gm's running around ingame and talking nonstop to evry player to make sure he isn't afk? Seriously that would get annoying. Yeah I probably shouldn't post here because I find this anti-rmt thing so unbelievably silly that I can't even describe it but meh.
Firs off I do not endgame Raid in mmos, im not hardcore that i need to show off my virtual items and play 24/7. My main game is EVE and we all know you dont have to play that game to advance.
But RMT is not a good modle its a SCAM! the people that get suckerd into buying Virtual items (thin Air) gets SCAMED that is my POINT!
And the People defending RMT transactions... my god. You actually think buying made up items and gear for IRL cash is a sound healthy thing to be doing??? ITs like you where an ARAB buying SAND from the nereast peedler when you could get if for free if you walked outside....
Virtual ITEMS for IRL MONEY is A SCAAAAAM!!!
There's probably no more eloquent way of proving Forumfall's point than what you just wrote, Zlayer. Congratulations on summing it up so succinctly. Good job!
ps: You all do understand that you are buying thin Air right??? the stuff you pruchese ingames Do not exist per say and have no lasting value.... Its scaming you in a sick way and you are here defending it... Muhaha
I can't help but wonder how many times you've spent your money on air. Gone to a bar? Yeah, you spent LOTS of money on alcohol with nothing to show for it. Gone to a movie? Hope that ticket you have left after two hours is worth more to you than a digital item.
Entertainment is primarily intangible, and it always has been. Quite frankly, your quote is a joke. A pathetic attempt at insulting someone with your flawed argument.
ps: You all do understand that you are buying thin Air right??? the stuff you pruchese ingames Do not exist per say and have no lasting value.... Its scaming you in a sick way and you are here defending it... Muhaha
I can't help but wonder how many times you've spent your money on air. Gone to a bar? Yeah, you spent LOTS of money on alcohol with nothing to show for it. Gone to a movie? Hope that ticket you have left after two hours is worth more to you than a digital item.
Entertainment is primarily intangible, and it always has been. Quite frankly, your quote is a joke. A pathetic attempt at insulting someone with your flawed argument.
Aslong as someone buys things to compete with others he/she is NOT playing the game.
This has been said before in this thread, games are ment to be played and the time you invest in the game should not make any diffrence what so ever as long as you have fun !!
Besides If the developer is smart he creates his game with this in mind, so time spent doesnt make a diffrence.
EQ2 with it's mentoring system is a good example !!
And If you play a game that happens to be to time consuming, it would be vise to choose another game.
Oh my, I can’t remember when someone has accused me of being ‘emotional’ online before.
Nice photos, but here is my suggestion for the scuba diver photo: “Me? I got me pink and blue Leet suit from cash shop for $50…(bubbles)…you guys have been stuck down here for how long trying to get one?!!” Thats RMP fairplay policy for you
Not bad, I laughed. The pink suit does look pretty l33t.
I think players should only be able to buy the same items that other players can earn through time. The only advantage they are truly paying for is saving them the time it would take to grind for it. This balances things between the players with no lives that can spend 10 hours a day, and the players who have school, work, and family and can't give that much time. If I've got the same gear you have, what should it really matter to you how I got it? Worry about yourself, play the game the way that gives you the most enjoyment, and let everyone else do the same thing.
There is more than this difference. You fundamentally change the game, and make the effort involved to get the same item worthless.
In other words, I can ONLY do a quest for an item, or grind for an Item. OR I can pay five bucks for it. I have five bucks. This means the quest is now worthless to me, and it would feel stupid doing it when I can pay five bucks. Now I don't want to play.
That is completely different from a game where EVERYONE must work for the item, no exceptions. That's a game I want to play.
This is the hardest part for people to understand:
I"m not worried YOU can buy items, I don't want the game to let ME buy items. Telling me "just don't buy it' doesn't work.
Here is where I would like to see a little more honesty. See if an item is worth grinding X hours for then is it worth the X hours grind even if you can otherwise pay for it. That is if that line of thinking is directly honest. What goes unmentioned and is likely the real reason is that if you can only grind it, the real worth is the epeen factor. I just wish once in this debate someone would just come out and admit that fancy item is worth grinding for the epeen factor.
It's been fun times discussing RMT lately, but I wanted to bring up another issue just as important and unbalancing. Time. The anti-rmters think it's ok for someone to have more time to play a mmo than someone else and reap those rewards. Yet, the moment someone spends some real cash to catch up to those who have the time advantage, it is suddenly cheating. IMO, time is just as unbalancing a factor in mmo gameplay as rmt supposedly is. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that rmt is more of a balancing factor than an unbalancing factor.
So, disucss. Is the fact that one person has more time to play than another an unbalancing factor in mmos? If so, should time be regulated to make the game fair for everyone? If the anti-rmters are so concerned about fairness in mmos, shouldn't they be just as concerned about fairness in playtime as they are about rmt?
I think it's important to note that I am not advocating restricting time in mmos. I am just saying that to me any argument against rmt on the basis of "fairness" is completely illogical given the inherent unfairness of the time variable.
okey here you go
1, lets say you are a college graduate, you have spent countless hours studying, and now finaly X years later you are done.
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IF I TOOK THE JOBB YOU HAD STUDIED SO HARD FOR ( but I had ZERO Education and had just slacked and partied all those years that you spent in your room studying for exams) reason my daddy knows the boss of the company.
DO you THINK THAT WOULD BE FAIR? Yes, its fair to the employer. The employer decides who he is paying his money for. Some corporates pays only candidates with certain academic qualifications. I for one only hire people who can do the job, sex age education means nothing to me. So long as s/he can explain to me his/her ideas. But, back to the topic. RMT is not an issue of fairness, nor is RMT anyway relevant to education qualifications.
GAMES NEED TO BE FAIR.. or we could go play HOCKEY but my team gets 10 players on the ICE and yours get 5.... What is fair? Fair in your eyes =/= fair in my eyes
why do pepole like sports = THEY ARE THE LAST PLACE WHERE THERE ARE SET RULES AND A EVRYONE HAS AN EQUAL CHANS OF WINNING Says who? Is Sports fair? Tall Americans playing basketball against short filipinos?
Why do people like playing games = THEY ARE THE LAST PLACE WHERE RULES/LUCK DICTATE THE OUTCOME I do not need to think about fairness in a game. I play chess and I always lose to my father when I was a kid. Its unfair, but its fun.
If you take this away we might aswell all stop playing MMOS, TIME ADVANTAGE ROLF Really? So we play games only when we all have equal chances of winning. Cool go play dice, or flip coins.
just admit you are envious and move on.....
Bringing in RMT to counter people who play more then you is just a way for You to TAKE YOUR IRL SUCCESS AND USING IT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE IN A VIRTUAL WORLD...
And the funniest thing is that the no lifers in mmos are the largest suporters of RMT. What do you think would happen if a game started using real life money on a grander scale? Entropida universe that is what would happen. I have alot of friends who make a lving playing that game full time. HOW you aske, they do it off lazy people like yourself who likes to cut corners. Your few friends is not a univeral rule, RMT gold sellers exist in many games for years, and your friends are still not selling. PERIOD.
Why do you care so much about RMT, why not focus your time and effort drawing fun from the game you have so much passion about? IF you do not enjoy the game, why bother about RMT?
Aslong as someone buys things to compete with others he/she is NOT playing the game. You are now deciding how other people play their game? What next? Will you also specify that people buying better specialised mouses and keyboards and faster PCs/ISPs are also not playing the game? This has been said before in this thread, games are ment to be played and the time you invest in the game should not make any diffrence what so ever as long as you have fun !! How do you know that someone who use RMT options offered by the developer (say SoE) is not having fun. You decide how they should have fun? Besides If the developer is smart he creates his game with this in mind, so time spent doesnt make a diffrence. If time does not have a difference, what makes a difference? If everything is the same in the game, where will RMT fit in? The OP starts all these by saying time should be rewarded. Which is exactly what I called retarded. EQ2 with it's mentoring system is a good example !! And If you play a game that happens to be to time consuming, it would be vise to choose another game.
Why do you need to bother with the way others play with their accounts and characters. None of your business, if you are only trying to have fun with your game. Mind your own business.
First I do not endorse RMT from illegal gold farmers, I do not have a strong view against legal RMT from developers. That is my stand. Now I want to show 2 scenarios and ask you just 1 question.
Scenario 1, Mr A, who plays 24/7. Never go to work, never go to study. Live on welfare using some lame excuses, and using the welfare money to pay for gaming equipment and sub. He leeches on society and tax payer's money.
Scenario 2, Mr B, who works, pays tax and only play a few hours a day max.
So by your theory, Mr A should be rewarded more in games, while leeching Mr B's tax money to play.
To the OP: First I do not endorse RMT from illegal gold farmers, I do not have a strong view against legal RMT from developers. That is my stand. Now I want to show 2 scenarios and ask you just 1 question. Scenario 1, Mr A, who plays 24/7. Never go to work, never go to study. Live on welfare using some lame excuses, and using the welfare money to pay for gaming equipment and sub. He leeches on society and tax payer's money. Scenario 2, Mr B, who works, pays tax and only play a few hours a day max. So by your theory, Mr A should be rewarded more in games, while leeching Mr B's tax money to play. That is your idea of fairness?
On the other hand might mister A be rich from buying stocks in Nokia when they still was a tire factory or something else. Comparing made up people wont help.
Also there is a limit to how much time you can spend in a game even if you don't work and play all the time, 16-18 hours a day is max a longer periode. On the other hand you can pay a load of cash if you have them, I could myself run in a thousand bucks a month if I really loved the game and cut down a little bit on my Guiness account and I aint rich or something, I just got a ok paid job and no really huge expenses.
Someone like Bill gates could esily buy anything.
As for the no life dude will get the same as everyone else but he just get it faster in amount of days but not in amount of hours played. I play 3 hours a day or so, more some days but nothing others. I know some guys that play 10 hours and I am not jealous on them because I get the stuff in same game time as them. True, their characters will get great in a month and it takes longer for me but the in game time is the same and I dont see why the real time matters.
Time is not an unbalancing factor because that is time that they are actually PLAYING the game. They played the game for that amount of time, put in the effort, and received the awards. RMT is not time spent playing the game, but simply buying that playtime instead.
The entire point of a game is to play it. Why even bother if you are just going to buy your way to the top? What will be next, paying for a certificate that says you beat the game, so you don't have to play it at all? RMT completely defeats the purpose of a game, and that is to PLAY it.
And I know, "What do you care if some other guy bought a weapon while you earned it by playing the game, it doesn't effect you". Well, lets say I have the mediocre sword of pwnage because I haven't yet achieved anything better, but Joe Blow just bought an Uber sword of pwnage in the item shop, and we meet in the battlefield and I get my ass handed to me? Seems that players usage of RMT has directly effected my playing.
I am completely 100% against any form of RMT, and I refuse to play any game that incorporates it.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Here's the way I see. Time is not an unbalancing factor because that is time that they are actually PLAYING the game. They played the game for that amount of time, put in the effort, and received the awards. RMT is not time spent playing the game, but simply buying that playtime instead. Oh really? People who decided to skip work and live on welfare to play a game are the heroes of the day and should be rewarded? Is that the way you see it? The entire point of a game is to play it. So go play it the way you want and stop commenting on how others play their game. Why even bother if you are just going to buy your way to the top? Why even bother how others play their game? Jealousy? What will be next, paying for a certificate that says you beat the game, so you don't have to play it at all? RMT completely defeats the purpose of a game, and that is to PLAY it. If the purpose of a game to you, is to play it, then play it and stop bickering about how others play their game.
And I know, "What do you care if some other guy bought a weapon while you earned it by playing the game, it doesn't effect you". Well, lets say I have the mediocre sword of pwnage because I haven't yet achieved anything better, but Joe Blow just bought an Uber sword of pwnage in the item shop, and we meet in the battlefield and I get my ass handed to me? Seems that players usage of RMT has directly effected my playing. So, all you want is uberness, e-peening. You want games and societies in general to reward players who plays a game 24/7, and contributes to the society by beating everyone in the game, while drawing tax payers money so they can skip work and play 24/7? No. I pay a lot of tax, I do not want my money to feed the 24/7 gamers. I am completely 100% against any form of RMT, and I refuse to play any game that incorporates it. You have all the right to avoid RMT games, but this crusader on message boards, I smell jealous and e-peens. Frankly spending a lot of time in games does not make you look bigger. It might distort your sense of righteousness, so much so you think you DESERVE to own the only sword of the winning b/c you refuse to log off for a month.
If you want to play, go play, and stop telling us how we should play. None of your business.
Here's the way I see. Time is not an unbalancing factor because that is time that they are actually PLAYING the game. They played the game for that amount of time, put in the effort, and received the awards. RMT is not time spent playing the game, but simply buying that playtime instead. The entire point of a game is to play it. Why even bother if you are just going to buy your way to the top? What will be next, paying for a certificate that says you beat the game, so you don't have to play it at all? RMT completely defeats the purpose of a game, and that is to PLAY it.
And I know, "What do you care if some other guy bought a weapon while you earned it by playing the game, it doesn't effect you". Well, lets say I have the mediocre sword of pwnage because I haven't yet achieved anything better, but Joe Blow just bought an Uber sword of pwnage in the item shop, and we meet in the battlefield and I get my ass handed to me? Seems that players usage of RMT has directly effected my playing. I am completely 100% against any form of RMT, and I refuse to play any game that incorporates it.
Please point out to me where anyone is advocating buying their way to the top? You're just making stupid arguments using extreme examples that aren't even relevant. Worry about your own game and leave the rest of us alone.
Here's the way I see. Time is not an unbalancing factor because that is time that they are actually PLAYING the game. They played the game for that amount of time, put in the effort, and received the awards. RMT is not time spent playing the game, but simply buying that playtime instead. Oh really? People who decided to skip work and live on welfare to play a game are the heroes of the day and should be rewarded? Is that the way you see it? I don't care what they do outside of the game as I have no interaction with them and it is none of my business. They can skip work and live on welfare and play non-stop or they can work 80 hours a week and beat their kids before bed. All that matters is the interaction space, which is the game. So the idiots that don't play the game at all but have a fat wallet should be rewarded as the heroes of the day and be the best in game? Doesn't really make sense. All accomplishments in game should be earned in game. MMO's have the ability to be online virtual worlds, and shouldn't have direct impact from the real world. The entire point of a game is to play it. So go play it the way you want and stop commenting on how others play their game. Why even bother if you are just going to buy your way to the top? Why even bother how others play their game? Jealousy? What will be next, paying for a certificate that says you beat the game, so you don't have to play it at all? RMT completely defeats the purpose of a game, and that is to PLAY it. If the purpose of a game to you, is to play it, then play it and stop bickering about how others play their game. Clearly you failed to read my comment below first... And I know, "What do you care if some other guy bought a weapon while you earned it by playing the game, it doesn't effect you". Well, lets say I have the mediocre sword of pwnage because I haven't yet achieved anything better, but Joe Blow just bought an Uber sword of pwnage in the item shop, and we meet in the battlefield and I get my ass handed to me? Seems that players usage of RMT has directly effected my playing. So, all you want is uberness, e-peening. You want games and societies in general to reward players who plays a game 24/7, and contributes to the society by beating everyone in the game, while drawing tax payers money so they can skip work and play 24/7? No. I pay a lot of tax, I do not want my money to feed the 24/7 gamers. Yes, all power gamers are on welfare. Great logic chief. I don't know, seems to me like the person that is willing to pay real money to be uber, e-peen stroking in a game is the one that cares more about having the e-peen. Is the point of a game not to try and win? I shouldn't be upset when some jackass with too much money decides to buy his way to the top instead of earning his acheivments, and then defeats me in the game because of it? Sounds a bit backwards to me. I am completely 100% against any form of RMT, and I refuse to play any game that incorporates it. You have all the right to avoid RMT games, but this crusader on message boards, I smell jealous and e-peens. Frankly spending a lot of time in games does not make you look bigger. It might distort your sense of righteousness, so much so you think you DESERVE to own the only sword of the winning b/c you refuse to log off for a month.
If you want to play, go play, and stop telling us how we should play. None of your business.
Hey man, if you want to just send me money I'll send you a certificate saying that you beat the game so that you never have to actually play it at all, you can just pay money and win. Sound good?
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Here's the way I see. Time is not an unbalancing factor because that is time that they are actually PLAYING the game. They played the game for that amount of time, put in the effort, and received the awards. RMT is not time spent playing the game, but simply buying that playtime instead. Oh really? People who decided to skip work and live on welfare to play a game are the heroes of the day and should be rewarded? Is that the way you see it? I don't care what they do outside of the game as I have no interaction with them and it is none of my business. They can skip work and live on welfare and play non-stop or they can work 80 hours a week and beat their kids before bed. All that matters is the interaction space, which is the game. So the idiots that don't play the game at all but have a fat wallet should be rewarded as the heroes of the day and be the best in game? Doesn't really make sense. All accomplishments in game should be earned in game. MMO's have the ability to be online virtual worlds, and shouldn't have direct impact from the real world. The entire point of a game is to play it. So go play it the way you want and stop commenting on how others play their game. Why even bother if you are just going to buy your way to the top? Why even bother how others play their game? Jealousy? What will be next, paying for a certificate that says you beat the game, so you don't have to play it at all? RMT completely defeats the purpose of a game, and that is to PLAY it. If the purpose of a game to you, is to play it, then play it and stop bickering about how others play their game. Clearly you failed to read my comment below first... And I know, "What do you care if some other guy bought a weapon while you earned it by playing the game, it doesn't effect you". Well, lets say I have the mediocre sword of pwnage because I haven't yet achieved anything better, but Joe Blow just bought an Uber sword of pwnage in the item shop, and we meet in the battlefield and I get my ass handed to me? Seems that players usage of RMT has directly effected my playing. So, all you want is uberness, e-peening. You want games and societies in general to reward players who plays a game 24/7, and contributes to the society by beating everyone in the game, while drawing tax payers money so they can skip work and play 24/7? No. I pay a lot of tax, I do not want my money to feed the 24/7 gamers. Yes, all power gamers are on welfare. Great logic chief. I don't know, seems to me like the person that is willing to pay real money to be uber, e-peen stroking in a game is the one that cares more about having the e-peen. Is the point of a game not to try and win? I shouldn't be upset when some jackass with too much money decides to buy his way to the top instead of earning his acheivments, and then defeats me in the game because of it? Sounds a bit backwards to me. I am completely 100% against any form of RMT, and I refuse to play any game that incorporates it. You have all the right to avoid RMT games, but this crusader on message boards, I smell jealous and e-peens. Frankly spending a lot of time in games does not make you look bigger. It might distort your sense of righteousness, so much so you think you DESERVE to own the only sword of the winning b/c you refuse to log off for a month.
If you want to play, go play, and stop telling us how we should play. None of your business.
Hey man, if you want to just send me money I'll send you a certificate saying that you beat the game so that you never have to actually play it at all, you can just pay money and win. Sound good?
And if you'll sit in front of your computer for the next 34 hours while spamming your attack button repeatedly, you'll have earned a lovely little award. It will be totally worth it, I promise. Just do it.
Here's the way I see. Time is not an unbalancing factor because that is time that they are actually PLAYING the game. They played the game for that amount of time, put in the effort, and received the awards. RMT is not time spent playing the game, but simply buying that playtime instead. The entire point of a game is to play it. Why even bother if you are just going to buy your way to the top? What will be next, paying for a certificate that says you beat the game, so you don't have to play it at all? RMT completely defeats the purpose of a game, and that is to PLAY it.
And I know, "What do you care if some other guy bought a weapon while you earned it by playing the game, it doesn't effect you". Well, lets say I have the mediocre sword of pwnage because I haven't yet achieved anything better, but Joe Blow just bought an Uber sword of pwnage in the item shop, and we meet in the battlefield and I get my ass handed to me? Seems that players usage of RMT has directly effected my playing. I am completely 100% against any form of RMT, and I refuse to play any game that incorporates it.
Please point out to me where anyone is advocating buying their way to the top? You're just making stupid arguments using extreme examples that aren't even relevant. Worry about your own game and leave the rest of us alone.
Ah, so now we are putting fictitious restrictions on the RMT we are talking about to make your point right and my point wrong? Interesting. Whats not relevant? I'm fairly certain everything I said was absolutely on target and very relevant. And I clearly addressed why how someone else plays the game effects me.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Here's the way I see. Time is not an unbalancing factor because that is time that they are actually PLAYING the game. They played the game for that amount of time, put in the effort, and received the awards. RMT is not time spent playing the game, but simply buying that playtime instead. Oh really? People who decided to skip work and live on welfare to play a game are the heroes of the day and should be rewarded? Is that the way you see it? I don't care what they do outside of the game as I have no interaction with them and it is none of my business. They can skip work and live on welfare and play non-stop or they can work 80 hours a week and beat their kids before bed. All that matters is the interaction space, which is the game. So the idiots that don't play the game at all but have a fat wallet should be rewarded as the heroes of the day and be the best in game? Doesn't really make sense. All accomplishments in game should be earned in game. MMO's have the ability to be online virtual worlds, and shouldn't have direct impact from the real world. The entire point of a game is to play it. So go play it the way you want and stop commenting on how others play their game. Why even bother if you are just going to buy your way to the top? Why even bother how others play their game? Jealousy? What will be next, paying for a certificate that says you beat the game, so you don't have to play it at all? RMT completely defeats the purpose of a game, and that is to PLAY it. If the purpose of a game to you, is to play it, then play it and stop bickering about how others play their game. Clearly you failed to read my comment below first... And I know, "What do you care if some other guy bought a weapon while you earned it by playing the game, it doesn't effect you". Well, lets say I have the mediocre sword of pwnage because I haven't yet achieved anything better, but Joe Blow just bought an Uber sword of pwnage in the item shop, and we meet in the battlefield and I get my ass handed to me? Seems that players usage of RMT has directly effected my playing. So, all you want is uberness, e-peening. You want games and societies in general to reward players who plays a game 24/7, and contributes to the society by beating everyone in the game, while drawing tax payers money so they can skip work and play 24/7? No. I pay a lot of tax, I do not want my money to feed the 24/7 gamers. Yes, all power gamers are on welfare. Great logic chief. I don't know, seems to me like the person that is willing to pay real money to be uber, e-peen stroking in a game is the one that cares more about having the e-peen. Is the point of a game not to try and win? I shouldn't be upset when some jackass with too much money decides to buy his way to the top instead of earning his acheivments, and then defeats me in the game because of it? Sounds a bit backwards to me. I am completely 100% against any form of RMT, and I refuse to play any game that incorporates it. You have all the right to avoid RMT games, but this crusader on message boards, I smell jealous and e-peens. Frankly spending a lot of time in games does not make you look bigger. It might distort your sense of righteousness, so much so you think you DESERVE to own the only sword of the winning b/c you refuse to log off for a month.
If you want to play, go play, and stop telling us how we should play. None of your business.
Hey man, if you want to just send me money I'll send you a certificate saying that you beat the game so that you never have to actually play it at all, you can just pay money and win. Sound good?
And if you'll sit in front of your computer for the next 34 hours while spamming your attack button repeatedly, you'll have earned a lovely little award. It will be totally worth it, I promise. Just do it.
Your right, I was the one making over-exaggerated arguments.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
To the OP: First I do not endorse RMT from illegal gold farmers, I do not have a strong view against legal RMT from developers. That is my stand. Now I want to show 2 scenarios and ask you just 1 question. Scenario 1, Mr A, who plays 24/7. Never go to work, never go to study. Live on welfare using some lame excuses, and using the welfare money to pay for gaming equipment and sub. He leeches on society and tax payer's money. Scenario 2, Mr B, who works, pays tax and only play a few hours a day max. So by your theory, Mr A should be rewarded more in games, while leeching Mr B's tax money to play. That is your idea of fairness?
On the other hand might mister A be rich from buying stocks in Nokia when they still was a tire factory or something else. Comparing made up people wont help.
Also there is a limit to how much time you can spend in a game even if you don't work and play all the time, 16-18 hours a day is max a longer periode. On the other hand you can pay a load of cash if you have them, I could myself run in a thousand bucks a month if I really loved the game and cut down a little bit on my Guiness account and I aint rich or something, I just got a ok paid job and no really huge expenses.
Someone like Bill gates could esily buy anything.
As for the no life dude will get the same as everyone else but he just get it faster in amount of days but not in amount of hours played. I play 3 hours a day or so, more some days but nothing others. I know some guys that play 10 hours and I am not jealous on them because I get the stuff in same game time as them. True, their characters will get great in a month and it takes longer for me but the in game time is the same and I dont see why the real time matters.
Absolutely agree, so its a scenario comparison as I put it, not statistics. A scenario opens up options, possibilities for discussion, not as a conclusion. I offered counter examples, showing that rewarding players purely on time alone might mean rewarding Mr A and B in that nature, and that MIGHT not be fair.
But if you come to think of it, the % of uber rich people playing games are likely to be smaller than the % of welfare takers playing games. That comes from ONE of the research I did for a client couple years back. Now that research does not cover everything, but it give me one of the saddest observations in my lifetime, and that is, quite a lot of super gamers skip school, pretend to be sick, create traffic or domestic accidents to stay online. Hence my scenario.
You are right. I clearly state that Mr A and Mr B are scenarios. The scenario only help me illustrate that fairness, even in the stretched sense, is not ALWAYS served by awarding 24/7 gamers. But of course, Fairness is not defined in a game. A game for entertainment of self. Not as a e-peen showoff.
Time and money are both unbalancing. However they are plentiful and everyone has the ability to have them in one way or another.
Take those 2 away and you will start to divide players just by skill. I would love to have more games like that, but don't forget that you're excluding a huge amount of players like this.
Take FPS, UT servers used to be crowded when the game launched, 2 months later most had left because they were unable to compete. This same scenario would happen if you take away time, although a lot of MMO should be way more about skill than playtime. Now it's 99% playtime and 1% skill.
Time and money are both unbalancing. However they are plentiful and everyone has the ability to have them in one way or another. Take those 2 away and you will start to devide players just by skill. I would love to have more games like that, but don't forget that you're excluding a huge amount of players like this. Take FPS, UT servers used to be crowded when the game launched, 2 months later most had left because they were unable to compete. This same scenario would happen if you take away time, although a lot of MMO should be way more about skill than playtime. Now it's 99% playtime and 1% skill.
I very much agree. I don't think time/RMT would even be an issue if games stopped putting so much emphasis on gear, and made it more about player skill.
But, even if a game relied on player skill more than anything else, the player that spends a ton of time playing will most likely be a lot better because they have practiced more, while the RMTer will not be able to compete because they haven't put the time in practicing, and then they will be extra upset because they can't buy skill in the cash shop. That would be an ok situation in my book.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Comments
I am willing to put in any amount of time I need to get a character in a game I enjoy to where I want him.
I have never and will never play a game with micro transactions and refuse to buy items to keep my guy at his peak, it is a ridiculous system that I will never subscribe too. If a game wants to charge some money to allow you to change the look of your character or get another hairstyle I couldn't care less, but as soon as it is any item that speeds up leveling, or increases any ability of a character or the rate at which they heal etc, then I will never play that game.
But the most important point is, why should the developer reward you because you spent your lifetime online? You pay the same money, you use up a lot more bandwidth. You should be lucky not being charged more.
Sometime I feel like the idea of charging games by hours online. In a way, gamers like you are abusing the public sharable good called the game server.
MY god dude you are an agitator. Nothing in all your counter arguments and post proves anything. In the end you are just blurting out cool sounding words to make your point (flawed one) come across.
Its maddening beyoned belife that you actually think that more time invested should not give a higher Reward. What planet are you from Mars?
You sound just like the old Communist party in my country. Somehow you all got the Idee that everyone should always be en equal footing. LIFE ISENT LIKE THAT, get a hint. Not everyone can become a fire figther, police officer lawyer or a Doctor. Life is unfair that you cant spend as mush time playing a video game, and that sucks for you. But to say that others should not get a bigger Reward for playing more is kinda retarded.
Where do I even begin?
Its maddening beyond belief that you actually think that more money invested should not give a higher reward
Some people have time to invest, let them do that and get a reward. Others have money to invest, let them get their reward as well.
Life is unfair, as you say, so do not complain about the fairness involved in RMT. Just deal with it.
Your point of view is "kinda retarded."
In the end its your money boys, im not gona stop you from spending your money on 1,0,1,0,0, if that gets your thrill be my guest, the 24/7 crowed will be able to live off you, you understand this right?? If RMT gets implemented in a big way, those that play more will be able to sell there stuff and make a living off your IRL working.
And even if they cant sell the stuff they will still be miles head of the people that buy stuff, forcing the RMT buyers to buy even more to keep up, its one nasty cycle but im thru trying to help you as with any addict, You cant help people who dont want to help themeselfs..... so please go head and spend your IRL cash in virtual Nothing ness HAHAHA
ps: You all do understand that you are buying thin Air right??? the stuff you pruchese ingames Do not exist per say and have no lasting value.... Its scaming you in a sick way and you are here defending it... Muhaha
And how are your monthly fees any different? Or a night at the movies? Or a day at an amusement park? You still walk away with nothing.
a subsription for a magazine an internet conection or game access cant be compared to buying Items ingame. On one hand you are paying for a service on the other one you are pimping out your virtual avatar for IRL money.
Going to the movies and having a fun day at the amusment park actually gives you somthing to take away memories, and a fun experience. There are also alot of movies that are Dramas that bring up serious issues that needs adressing. Your virtual sword wont bring you anny insight into the plight of people in a third world country for instance... the movies might. Also time spent with Friends and family at the amusment park taking pitchures etc, you can come back to later, both to talk about and remember. When your kidds grow up they might come home one night and say; Hey dad you remember that old ride we used to take its still there I took my son there yeasterday. Your new shine virtuaL ROBE wont bring you this....
Buying Items online cant be compared to that its more in line with going to get a new Stereo for your car, Or new cloths. THe actuall action of buying the virtual goods is like going to a store IRL except you are buying THIN AIR haha. If you cant see the diffrence Im not gona argue with you, but you make one hell of a customer, you are a sellers dream come true..
My point stands If you think people will ever respect you for bying items (once and zeros) online you best think again. I will actually be so bold to say that it might be the closest to a real loser as you can get. You couldent hack it so you used IRL money to buy some thin Air online so you could be as cool as that guy who worked a few weeks to get it, HAHAHA
Hehe here we go again with one of those super emotional topics. You guys sure take these games serious huh? Why else would you keep yapping the same shit about 'achieving' this and achieving that in a game...
You seem so desperate to be ahead of people since you have the ability to invest more time and RMT prevents you from beeing little gods showing off. <- That's the only reason you whine about this non-issue.
Tell you what. No one in the real world gives a flying fuck about this. Those that spend a few dollars to make a certain NON-FUN aspect of the game easier/faster or to just keep up with their buddies due to less time available will continue to do so and there is nothing you can do about it.
Now lets say a super mmo comes out that has the goldselling prevented (in whatever possible way) the only thing that would happen is that said players with less time will get themselfes a bot program to get the job done. So what then? Having a bunch of stasi-gm's running around ingame and talking nonstop to evry player to make sure he isn't afk? Seriously that would get annoying.
Yeah I probably shouldn't post here because I find this anti-rmt thing so unbelievably silly that I can't even describe it but meh.
Firs off I do not endgame Raid in mmos, im not hardcore that i need to show off my virtual items and play 24/7. My main game is EVE and we all know you dont have to play that game to advance.
But RMT is not a good modle its a SCAM! the people that get suckerd into buying Virtual items (thin Air) gets SCAMED that is my POINT!
And the People defending RMT transactions... my god. You actually think buying made up items and gear for IRL cash is a sound healthy thing to be doing??? ITs like you where an ARAB buying SAND from the nereast peedler when you could get if for free if you walked outside....
Virtual ITEMS for IRL MONEY is A SCAAAAAM!!!
Firs off I do not endgame Raid in mmos, im not hardcore that i need to show off my virtual items and play 24/7. My main game is EVE and we all know you dont have to play that game to advance.
But RMT is not a good modle its a SCAM! the people that get suckerd into buying Virtual items (thin Air) gets SCAMED that is my POINT!
And the People defending RMT transactions... my god. You actually think buying made up items and gear for IRL cash is a sound healthy thing to be doing??? ITs like you where an ARAB buying SAND from the nereast peedler when you could get if for free if you walked outside....
Virtual ITEMS for IRL MONEY is A SCAAAAAM!!!
There's probably no more eloquent way of proving Forumfall's point than what you just wrote, Zlayer. Congratulations on summing it up so succinctly. Good job!
ps: You all do understand that you are buying thin Air right??? the stuff you pruchese ingames Do not exist per say and have no lasting value.... Its scaming you in a sick way and you are here defending it... Muhaha
I can't help but wonder how many times you've spent your money on air. Gone to a bar? Yeah, you spent LOTS of money on alcohol with nothing to show for it. Gone to a movie? Hope that ticket you have left after two hours is worth more to you than a digital item.
Entertainment is primarily intangible, and it always has been. Quite frankly, your quote is a joke. A pathetic attempt at insulting someone with your flawed argument.
ps: You all do understand that you are buying thin Air right??? the stuff you pruchese ingames Do not exist per say and have no lasting value.... Its scaming you in a sick way and you are here defending it... Muhaha
I can't help but wonder how many times you've spent your money on air. Gone to a bar? Yeah, you spent LOTS of money on alcohol with nothing to show for it. Gone to a movie? Hope that ticket you have left after two hours is worth more to you than a digital item.
Entertainment is primarily intangible, and it always has been. Quite frankly, your quote is a joke. A pathetic attempt at insulting someone with your flawed argument.
Oxygen bar. Literally spending money on air:
Scuba Diver. Literally spending money on air:
Oh my, I can’t remember when someone has accused me of being ‘emotional’ online before.
Nice photos, but here is my suggestion for the scuba diver photo:
“Me? I got me pink and blue Leet suit from cash shop for $50…(bubbles)…you guys have been stuck down here for how long trying to get one?!!”
Thats RMP fairplay policy for you
Aslong as someone buys things to compete with others he/she is NOT playing the game.
This has been said before in this thread, games are ment to be played and the time you invest in the game should not make any diffrence what so ever as long as you have fun !!
Besides If the developer is smart he creates his game with this in mind, so time spent doesnt make a diffrence.
EQ2 with it's mentoring system is a good example !!
And If you play a game that happens to be to time consuming, it would be vise to choose another game.
Not bad, I laughed. The pink suit does look pretty l33t.
There is more than this difference. You fundamentally change the game, and make the effort involved to get the same item worthless.
In other words, I can ONLY do a quest for an item, or grind for an Item. OR I can pay five bucks for it. I have five bucks. This means the quest is now worthless to me, and it would feel stupid doing it when I can pay five bucks. Now I don't want to play.
That is completely different from a game where EVERYONE must work for the item, no exceptions. That's a game I want to play.
This is the hardest part for people to understand:
I"m not worried YOU can buy items, I don't want the game to let ME buy items. Telling me "just don't buy it' doesn't work.
Here is where I would like to see a little more honesty. See if an item is worth grinding X hours for then is it worth the X hours grind even if you can otherwise pay for it. That is if that line of thinking is directly honest. What goes unmentioned and is likely the real reason is that if you can only grind it, the real worth is the epeen factor. I just wish once in this debate someone would just come out and admit that fancy item is worth grinding for the epeen factor.
okey here you go
1, lets say you are a college graduate, you have spent countless hours studying, and now finaly X years later you are done.
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IF I TOOK THE JOBB YOU HAD STUDIED SO HARD FOR ( but I had ZERO Education and had just slacked and partied all those years that you spent in your room studying for exams) reason my daddy knows the boss of the company.
DO you THINK THAT WOULD BE FAIR? Yes, its fair to the employer. The employer decides who he is paying his money for. Some corporates pays only candidates with certain academic qualifications. I for one only hire people who can do the job, sex age education means nothing to me. So long as s/he can explain to me his/her ideas. But, back to the topic. RMT is not an issue of fairness, nor is RMT anyway relevant to education qualifications.
GAMES NEED TO BE FAIR.. or we could go play HOCKEY but my team gets 10 players on the ICE and yours get 5.... What is fair? Fair in your eyes =/= fair in my eyes
why do pepole like sports = THEY ARE THE LAST PLACE WHERE THERE ARE SET RULES AND A EVRYONE HAS AN EQUAL CHANS OF WINNING Says who? Is Sports fair? Tall Americans playing basketball against short filipinos?
Why do people like playing games = THEY ARE THE LAST PLACE WHERE RULES/LUCK DICTATE THE OUTCOME I do not need to think about fairness in a game. I play chess and I always lose to my father when I was a kid. Its unfair, but its fun.
If you take this away we might aswell all stop playing MMOS, TIME ADVANTAGE ROLF Really? So we play games only when we all have equal chances of winning. Cool go play dice, or flip coins.
just admit you are envious and move on.....
Bringing in RMT to counter people who play more then you is just a way for You to TAKE YOUR IRL SUCCESS AND USING IT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE IN A VIRTUAL WORLD...
And the funniest thing is that the no lifers in mmos are the largest suporters of RMT. What do you think would happen if a game started using real life money on a grander scale? Entropida universe that is what would happen. I have alot of friends who make a lving playing that game full time. HOW you aske, they do it off lazy people like yourself who likes to cut corners. Your few friends is not a univeral rule, RMT gold sellers exist in many games for years, and your friends are still not selling. PERIOD.
Why do you care so much about RMT, why not focus your time and effort drawing fun from the game you have so much passion about? IF you do not enjoy the game, why bother about RMT?
Why do you need to bother with the way others play with their accounts and characters. None of your business, if you are only trying to have fun with your game. Mind your own business.
To the OP:
First I do not endorse RMT from illegal gold farmers, I do not have a strong view against legal RMT from developers. That is my stand. Now I want to show 2 scenarios and ask you just 1 question.
Scenario 1, Mr A, who plays 24/7. Never go to work, never go to study. Live on welfare using some lame excuses, and using the welfare money to pay for gaming equipment and sub. He leeches on society and tax payer's money.
Scenario 2, Mr B, who works, pays tax and only play a few hours a day max.
So by your theory, Mr A should be rewarded more in games, while leeching Mr B's tax money to play.
That is your idea of fairness?
On the other hand might mister A be rich from buying stocks in Nokia when they still was a tire factory or something else. Comparing made up people wont help.
Also there is a limit to how much time you can spend in a game even if you don't work and play all the time, 16-18 hours a day is max a longer periode. On the other hand you can pay a load of cash if you have them, I could myself run in a thousand bucks a month if I really loved the game and cut down a little bit on my Guiness account and I aint rich or something, I just got a ok paid job and no really huge expenses.
Someone like Bill gates could esily buy anything.
As for the no life dude will get the same as everyone else but he just get it faster in amount of days but not in amount of hours played. I play 3 hours a day or so, more some days but nothing others. I know some guys that play 10 hours and I am not jealous on them because I get the stuff in same game time as them. True, their characters will get great in a month and it takes longer for me but the in game time is the same and I dont see why the real time matters.
Here's the way I see.
Time is not an unbalancing factor because that is time that they are actually PLAYING the game. They played the game for that amount of time, put in the effort, and received the awards. RMT is not time spent playing the game, but simply buying that playtime instead.
The entire point of a game is to play it. Why even bother if you are just going to buy your way to the top? What will be next, paying for a certificate that says you beat the game, so you don't have to play it at all? RMT completely defeats the purpose of a game, and that is to PLAY it.
And I know, "What do you care if some other guy bought a weapon while you earned it by playing the game, it doesn't effect you". Well, lets say I have the mediocre sword of pwnage because I haven't yet achieved anything better, but Joe Blow just bought an Uber sword of pwnage in the item shop, and we meet in the battlefield and I get my ass handed to me? Seems that players usage of RMT has directly effected my playing.
I am completely 100% against any form of RMT, and I refuse to play any game that incorporates it.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
If you want to play, go play, and stop telling us how we should play. None of your business.
Please point out to me where anyone is advocating buying their way to the top? You're just making stupid arguments using extreme examples that aren't even relevant. Worry about your own game and leave the rest of us alone.
If you want to play, go play, and stop telling us how we should play. None of your business.
Hey man, if you want to just send me money I'll send you a certificate saying that you beat the game so that you never have to actually play it at all, you can just pay money and win. Sound good?
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
If you want to play, go play, and stop telling us how we should play. None of your business.
Hey man, if you want to just send me money I'll send you a certificate saying that you beat the game so that you never have to actually play it at all, you can just pay money and win. Sound good?
And if you'll sit in front of your computer for the next 34 hours while spamming your attack button repeatedly, you'll have earned a lovely little award. It will be totally worth it, I promise. Just do it.
Please point out to me where anyone is advocating buying their way to the top? You're just making stupid arguments using extreme examples that aren't even relevant. Worry about your own game and leave the rest of us alone.
Ah, so now we are putting fictitious restrictions on the RMT we are talking about to make your point right and my point wrong? Interesting. Whats not relevant? I'm fairly certain everything I said was absolutely on target and very relevant. And I clearly addressed why how someone else plays the game effects me.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
If you want to play, go play, and stop telling us how we should play. None of your business.
Hey man, if you want to just send me money I'll send you a certificate saying that you beat the game so that you never have to actually play it at all, you can just pay money and win. Sound good?
And if you'll sit in front of your computer for the next 34 hours while spamming your attack button repeatedly, you'll have earned a lovely little award. It will be totally worth it, I promise. Just do it.
Your right, I was the one making over-exaggerated arguments.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
On the other hand might mister A be rich from buying stocks in Nokia when they still was a tire factory or something else. Comparing made up people wont help.
Also there is a limit to how much time you can spend in a game even if you don't work and play all the time, 16-18 hours a day is max a longer periode. On the other hand you can pay a load of cash if you have them, I could myself run in a thousand bucks a month if I really loved the game and cut down a little bit on my Guiness account and I aint rich or something, I just got a ok paid job and no really huge expenses.
Someone like Bill gates could esily buy anything.
As for the no life dude will get the same as everyone else but he just get it faster in amount of days but not in amount of hours played. I play 3 hours a day or so, more some days but nothing others. I know some guys that play 10 hours and I am not jealous on them because I get the stuff in same game time as them. True, their characters will get great in a month and it takes longer for me but the in game time is the same and I dont see why the real time matters.
Absolutely agree, so its a scenario comparison as I put it, not statistics. A scenario opens up options, possibilities for discussion, not as a conclusion. I offered counter examples, showing that rewarding players purely on time alone might mean rewarding Mr A and B in that nature, and that MIGHT not be fair.
But if you come to think of it, the % of uber rich people playing games are likely to be smaller than the % of welfare takers playing games. That comes from ONE of the research I did for a client couple years back. Now that research does not cover everything, but it give me one of the saddest observations in my lifetime, and that is, quite a lot of super gamers skip school, pretend to be sick, create traffic or domestic accidents to stay online. Hence my scenario.
You are right. I clearly state that Mr A and Mr B are scenarios. The scenario only help me illustrate that fairness, even in the stretched sense, is not ALWAYS served by awarding 24/7 gamers. But of course, Fairness is not defined in a game. A game for entertainment of self. Not as a e-peen showoff.
Time and money are both unbalancing. However they are plentiful and everyone has the ability to have them in one way or another.
Take those 2 away and you will start to divide players just by skill. I would love to have more games like that, but don't forget that you're excluding a huge amount of players like this.
Take FPS, UT servers used to be crowded when the game launched, 2 months later most had left because they were unable to compete. This same scenario would happen if you take away time, although a lot of MMO should be way more about skill than playtime. Now it's 99% playtime and 1% skill.
I very much agree. I don't think time/RMT would even be an issue if games stopped putting so much emphasis on gear, and made it more about player skill.
But, even if a game relied on player skill more than anything else, the player that spends a ton of time playing will most likely be a lot better because they have practiced more, while the RMTer will not be able to compete because they haven't put the time in practicing, and then they will be extra upset because they can't buy skill in the cash shop. That would be an ok situation in my book.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.