It seems that some of you are missing the point or just are not true raiding toons within wow. I like some of you have stated love going out and exploring these new dungeons. Nothing would stop an MMO developer from expanding on content rather than levels.
Some of you say " We do it because of the social or explorative aspect! " Yea...true the first few weeks of raiding that dungeon maybe...but we all know that if you are a raider you will be raiding that same dungeon...same encounters for months and months if not a year from now....Every week.....same ole stuff. So please do not tell me that after that many raids that you are still " Doing it for the social or explorative aspect because at that time you are far beyond burned out. "
Lets face it.....MMO's are about upgrading your toon......end of story. Some play to socialize.....but MOST play to have fun and with that comes the drive to get the best gear available to their with their current play style.
Heres an analogy for you; Say you were to attend college for 4 years...get that bachelors degree only to find out once you have went into the job market only to find out that your recent degree has recently went obsolete due to new advances in technology or w/e..... and now to catch up you have to go back to college for another few years. Would that not piss you off?
It is sort of a gay analogy but you get the point. We get it that some people play for different reasons but truely I have to strive for the best when I play and most of the time after many many months of hard work I end up getting through patience most of what I come for. What I am saying though is that the end game gear might as well have a 12 month timer on the stats counting down til they auto disenchant themselves... If people could actually "See" a timer on them....they would get irate.
To the person that called me a retard for just now noticing after 5-6 years......this game hasnt even been out 5 years yet. I have been playing 4 years through 2 expansions. Both of which I had end game gear that didn't last me 4 levels into the new level grind. I can remember vendoring full bloodfang armor while still in hellfire.
Originally posted by Torx Heres an analogy for you; Say you were to attend college for 4 years...get that bachelors degree only to find out once you have went into the job market only to find out that your recent degree has recently went obsolete due to new advances in technology or w/e..... and now to catch up you have to go back to college for another few years. Would that not piss you off?
Unfortunately that analogy pretty much proves the opposite point to the one i think you were trying to make. The point you have actually made there is that although you pick up particular skills at a particular point, things do move on so you have to go ahead and learn the new skills as they come up. So to draw that across to Wow, you get one set of gear, then when it moves on you go and get the next set.
The point that some of us were trying to make is that although some of us still play for the gear, it is not the be all and end all of our existance in the game. I have a mage that was PvP purpled from top to bottom and now has 'some' better HC & raiding gear, but that has been over months and months of on and off casual HC's and raiding as i can take it or leave it having plenty of other things to occupy me within the guild.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Heres an analogy for you; Say you were to attend college for 4 years...get that bachelors degree only to find out once you have went into the job market only to find out that your recent degree has recently went obsolete due to new advances in technology or w/e..... and now to catch up you have to go back to college for another few years. Would that not piss you off?
Would that piss me off? Nope, in MMO we call it re-roll. And alot of us do that...
Another different between WoW and other mmo is the class. Playing the class in EQ2, LOTR, War,etc... i just find that somehow WoW class have more viariety than others, more intreasting to play. Also there's sort of like 2 games in it, Alliance, and Horde. Playing on ally side now i find that its another, though not totally new, game.
Is raiding the same old content over and over again bored? Of course! Even my guildies admit that, that's why Blizz keep coming out new instances to satisfied them, new season for pvpers....
But for me, after i hit 80 with my ally pally, i will quit again and wait for the next x-pac....
The last patch brought me back and the next will do the same as long as we keep having garbage games come out. Im hoping for a game with AOC graphics, Darkfall leveling, and Eve rules combined with the feeling I got the first day I played EQ1 : ) Ya I know, " Good Luck With ThaT"
Some of you say " We do it because of the social or explorative aspect! " Yea...true the first few weeks of raiding that dungeon maybe...but we all know that if you are a raider you will be raiding that same dungeon...same encounters for months and months if not a year from now....Every week.....same ole stuff. So please do not tell me that after that many raids that you are still " Doing it for the social or explorative aspect because at that time you are far beyond burned out. "
Lets face it.....MMO's are about upgrading your toon......end of story. Some play to socialize.....but MOST play to have fun and with that comes the drive to get the best gear available to their with their current play style.
Heres an analogy for you; Say you were to attend college for 4 years...get that bachelors degree only to find out once you have went into the job market only to find out that your recent degree has recently went obsolete due to new advances in technology or w/e..... and now to catch up you have to go back to college for another few years. Would that not piss you off?
It is sort of a gay analogy but you get the point. We get it that some people play for different reasons but truely I have to strive for the best when I play and most of the time after many many months of hard work I end up getting through patience most of what I come for.
I find this a VERY good post.
But I have 2 remarks: If you just play an mmo to "upgrade your toon", I think you miss out why people (for years and years) want to play in Wow.
They play because they develop their character(s), they have the feeling of being there in that world. A pure videogame YES, but also an experience you can't have with games like COD or 99% of most other video games.
As a matter of fact for the second blue in your post .... this pretty much happens in OUR Real Life world too...
Having a degree ... is nothing but a step in your further education also. Don't think that your graduation ... is all you have to do in life to succeed.
What all GOOD MMO's should be about is .... offering a very nice alternate reality with very fun gaming elements to amuse you. You could end up with a Second Life experience for those not liking games, but having social interaction WITHIN a fun gaming world is the prime role for any GOOD mmoprg.
From that starting point you need to have a lot of different options. Be it through professions, solo play, battles, dungeons and obtaining status symbols etc....
I think that basic factor is why almost all new mmorpg's fail: they don't offer the different options as much or as diverse as Wow does.
I think your problem is that you are far too focused on one gaming element: the upgrade in gear through Raids.
The new Wow 2009 has a lot more options than the old Wow. Epic gear these days is only a means to an end. Far more important things now are prestigious mounts and titles (eg achievements) that sometimes are very hard to obtain in ALL apsects of the game.
The people that can find that alternate reality in Wow won't leave the game that easy and the fact that having 10 complete different classes to play (a rogue a mage a warlock a paladin ... are VERY different) makes for years and years of gaming possibilities.
The latest 5 month cycle is but ONE of the playing options.
The fact is "a change for a new world" is less important than most would believe. Certainly if those new worlds offer far less options of play. More important is the RL connection Wow has these days with friends and relatives. All playing the same "world" you all know... sometimes even making for a very "blurred" view of RL events/discussions ... and things happening in Wow.
I prefer that feeling (for a hobby) beyond any 'new world" feeling for halfhearted made mmo's. I came to realise that in 2008 and I even think a lot of Wow players feel this when trying out those others and then simply ... come back to what their friends play... evolving their characters into new challenges.
Extremely good post ... It in some ways gives me more to think about.
The last patch brought me back and the next will do the same as long as we keep having garbage games come out. Im hoping for a game with AOC graphics, Darkfall leveling, and Eve rules combined with the feeling I got the first day I played EQ1 : ) Ya I know, " Good Luck With ThaT"
Lol...I think there are a few of us still looking to find that " feeling" we had when we first stepped foot in Crushbone. Man those were the days.
Heres an analogy for you; Say you were to attend college for 4 years...get that bachelors degree only to find out once you have went into the job market only to find out that your recent degree has recently went obsolete due to new advances in technology or w/e..... and now to catch up you have to go back to college for another few years. Would that not piss you off? ....
Your 'analogy' is 'reality'.
Your degree is nothing more than a way to get your foot in the door... a way to get a job. It's like hitting level Cap. 'Continuing education' is required by many professions. Aside from 'grinding to Cap (and gown)' in college, you then have to grind rep/experience in the working world and your respective company.
Another example: If you get a 4 year degree in IT, by the time you get out of college the technology you studied will have become outdated... the principles, however may not be. Technology changes, and thus, you must continue to educate yourself on new technologies.
Aside from college, take Microsoft's certifications, for yet another example: MSCE, many people got their cert on WinNT (4.0), then Win2K, WinXP, and now Vista... You have to renew your certifications... some tests are retired... etc.,...
Getting your 4 year degree is not life's end-game content. Aside from that... then you have your loans to pay.
...
I hate defending WoW or MMO's, but that's essentially what they do with their expansions and new RAIDs. They release new content and then give us incentive to discover their content... new levels/skills from exploring new areas, and new gear via new raids/raiding.
...
I do like the concept of the WoW 'heirloom' items, though. You raid and then you have something to pass down to your alts or use as you level. And I thought WoW was going to do the same thing with Legendary items (they were supposed to level as your character levels... so they would never become worthless/outgrown).
Does anyone else feel like WoW is basically just a reputation/ achievement grind? Because ultimately that is all you keep and all you get to show for all of you're hard work.
Almost every current mmo is just a recycling of repetitive tasks to gain small advancements for your avatar. Not that it is a grind, but what you just achieved will be replaced by something else tomorrow. Even the first level you gain will be replaced when you gain a new level. If you look really deep, then yes everything is the same basic formula for gameplay over and over.
My question I soppose is this; Why spend the time raiding and putting all this time into World of Warcraft from a raiders stand point if it will never ultimately give you anything that you can permanantly hang on to and make you're character what you would like it to be....
If you obtain all the best gear that will be permanently "best", then what point is for you to keep playing the game?
The way Blizz thinks, each expansion raises the bar higher, and everyone has something to do every time new expansion comes out.
Originally posted by Torx At which time new MMOs will come and go and WoW will most likely have already fell by the way side just like Everquest did years ago.
Sorry when did this happen? It's on its 14/15th expansion I think. Still must be successful in Sony's eyes to keep them coming. Not having 11million players doesn't mean a game has fallen by the wayside.
Sorry I got out the wrong side of bed this morning.
Core i5 13600KF, BeQuiet Pure Loop FX 360, 32gb DDR5-6000 XPG, WD SN850 NVMe ,PNY 3090 XLR8, Asus Prime Z790-A, Lian-Li O11 PCMR case (limited ed 1045/2000), 32" LG Ultragear 4k Monitor, Logitech G560 LightSync Sound, Razer Deathadder V2 and Razer Blackwidow V3 Keyboard
I have been playing World of Warcraft since its release and I strive or have strived to obtain the unobtainable the best of the best gear up until this recent patch that has released Ulduar.
Pre-bc I obtained full tier 2 armor and was making my way through naxx into tier 3 when the Burning Crusade released and all that work went down the drain. Some say that it helped me level and therefore worth the while but honestly it wasn't. Why play a game from a Raiders stand point if the gear you spend the next few years of "Expansion name here " obtaining all the new gear that is released just to have the slate wiped clean and have to start all over once again.
What brought this up is recent rumors that honestly do not surprise me that blizzard has two more expansions up their sleaves....First of which will boost the max level to 90 and following a few years after will be bumping it finally to 100 to finish it off. At which time new MMOs will come and go and WoW will most likely have already fell by the way side just like Everquest did years ago.
My question I soppose is this; Why spend the time raiding and putting all this time into World of Warcraft from a raiders stand point if it will never ultimately give you anything that you can permanantly hang on to and make you're character what you would like it to be....
Does anyone else feel like WoW is basically just a reputation/ achievement grind? Because ultimately that is all you keep and all you get to show for all of you're hard work.
Maybe its just me...maybe I should just find a good single player RPG and give it a try for a while...atleast there I cannot be bumbarded by a patch that erases all of my work and everything I grew to become proud of in my toon.
This epiphany came to me surprisingly very recently and I have not logged into WoW but a few times only to chat and then log back off..... I am looking foward to Aion and Starwars: The old republic..
Good day folks
don't get me wrong I recently quit WoW after playing it from release but the only other option a gaming company has other than to release expansions and raise level caps otherwise all there is left to do is min-max and thats less fun than starting over I would recomend trying something new for a while and come back after the xpax are released
There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?
Comments
It seems that some of you are missing the point or just are not true raiding toons within wow. I like some of you have stated love going out and exploring these new dungeons. Nothing would stop an MMO developer from expanding on content rather than levels.
Some of you say " We do it because of the social or explorative aspect! " Yea...true the first few weeks of raiding that dungeon maybe...but we all know that if you are a raider you will be raiding that same dungeon...same encounters for months and months if not a year from now....Every week.....same ole stuff. So please do not tell me that after that many raids that you are still " Doing it for the social or explorative aspect because at that time you are far beyond burned out. "
Lets face it.....MMO's are about upgrading your toon......end of story. Some play to socialize.....but MOST play to have fun and with that comes the drive to get the best gear available to their with their current play style.
Heres an analogy for you; Say you were to attend college for 4 years...get that bachelors degree only to find out once you have went into the job market only to find out that your recent degree has recently went obsolete due to new advances in technology or w/e..... and now to catch up you have to go back to college for another few years. Would that not piss you off?
It is sort of a gay analogy but you get the point. We get it that some people play for different reasons but truely I have to strive for the best when I play and most of the time after many many months of hard work I end up getting through patience most of what I come for. What I am saying though is that the end game gear might as well have a 12 month timer on the stats counting down til they auto disenchant themselves... If people could actually "See" a timer on them....they would get irate.
To the person that called me a retard for just now noticing after 5-6 years......this game hasnt even been out 5 years yet. I have been playing 4 years through 2 expansions. Both of which I had end game gear that didn't last me 4 levels into the new level grind. I can remember vendoring full bloodfang armor while still in hellfire.
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Unfortunately that analogy pretty much proves the opposite point to the one i think you were trying to make. The point you have actually made there is that although you pick up particular skills at a particular point, things do move on so you have to go ahead and learn the new skills as they come up. So to draw that across to Wow, you get one set of gear, then when it moves on you go and get the next set.
The point that some of us were trying to make is that although some of us still play for the gear, it is not the be all and end all of our existance in the game. I have a mage that was PvP purpled from top to bottom and now has 'some' better HC & raiding gear, but that has been over months and months of on and off casual HC's and raiding as i can take it or leave it having plenty of other things to occupy me within the guild.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Would that piss me off? Nope, in MMO we call it re-roll. And alot of us do that...
Another different between WoW and other mmo is the class. Playing the class in EQ2, LOTR, War,etc... i just find that somehow WoW class have more viariety than others, more intreasting to play. Also there's sort of like 2 games in it, Alliance, and Horde. Playing on ally side now i find that its another, though not totally new, game.
Is raiding the same old content over and over again bored? Of course! Even my guildies admit that, that's why Blizz keep coming out new instances to satisfied them, new season for pvpers....
But for me, after i hit 80 with my ally pally, i will quit again and wait for the next x-pac....
RIP Orc Choppa
The last patch brought me back and the next will do the same as long as we keep having garbage games come out. Im hoping for a game with AOC graphics, Darkfall leveling, and Eve rules combined with the feeling I got the first day I played EQ1 : ) Ya I know, " Good Luck With ThaT"
I find this a VERY good post.
But I have 2 remarks: If you just play an mmo to "upgrade your toon", I think you miss out why people (for years and years) want to play in Wow.
They play because they develop their character(s), they have the feeling of being there in that world. A pure videogame YES, but also an experience you can't have with games like COD or 99% of most other video games.
As a matter of fact for the second blue in your post .... this pretty much happens in OUR Real Life world too...
Having a degree ... is nothing but a step in your further education also. Don't think that your graduation ... is all you have to do in life to succeed.
What all GOOD MMO's should be about is .... offering a very nice alternate reality with very fun gaming elements to amuse you. You could end up with a Second Life experience for those not liking games, but having social interaction WITHIN a fun gaming world is the prime role for any GOOD mmoprg.
From that starting point you need to have a lot of different options. Be it through professions, solo play, battles, dungeons and obtaining status symbols etc....
I think that basic factor is why almost all new mmorpg's fail: they don't offer the different options as much or as diverse as Wow does.
I think your problem is that you are far too focused on one gaming element: the upgrade in gear through Raids.
The new Wow 2009 has a lot more options than the old Wow. Epic gear these days is only a means to an end. Far more important things now are prestigious mounts and titles (eg achievements) that sometimes are very hard to obtain in ALL apsects of the game.
The people that can find that alternate reality in Wow won't leave the game that easy and the fact that having 10 complete different classes to play (a rogue a mage a warlock a paladin ... are VERY different) makes for years and years of gaming possibilities.
The latest 5 month cycle is but ONE of the playing options.
The fact is "a change for a new world" is less important than most would believe. Certainly if those new worlds offer far less options of play. More important is the RL connection Wow has these days with friends and relatives. All playing the same "world" you all know... sometimes even making for a very "blurred" view of RL events/discussions ... and things happening in Wow.
I prefer that feeling (for a hobby) beyond any 'new world" feeling for halfhearted made mmo's. I came to realise that in 2008 and I even think a lot of Wow players feel this when trying out those others and then simply ... come back to what their friends play... evolving their characters into new challenges.
Extremely good post ... It in some ways gives me more to think about.
---------------------------Desolation Guild WebSite-----------------------------
System Specifications:
__________________________
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2x 2 Tb Hard Drives
Lol...I think there are a few of us still looking to find that " feeling" we had when we first stepped foot in Crushbone. Man those were the days.
---------------------------Desolation Guild WebSite-----------------------------
System Specifications:
__________________________
AMD Phenom 2 x4 @ 4.0ghz
8 gigs of DDR3 Ram
2x HD4870 1 gig DDR5 Video Cards
Coolermaster Haf932 Full tower Case
2x 2 Tb Hard Drives
EQ1 fealings,, :P naa, AO fealings OOo yaa:D (all pray for a SWTOR,, i want som Scifi
I WANT A SCI-FI MMO!! (NOT EVE, or Fom, or FE)
Your 'analogy' is 'reality'.
Your degree is nothing more than a way to get your foot in the door... a way to get a job. It's like hitting level Cap. 'Continuing education' is required by many professions. Aside from 'grinding to Cap (and gown)' in college, you then have to grind rep/experience in the working world and your respective company.
Another example: If you get a 4 year degree in IT, by the time you get out of college the technology you studied will have become outdated... the principles, however may not be. Technology changes, and thus, you must continue to educate yourself on new technologies.
Aside from college, take Microsoft's certifications, for yet another example: MSCE, many people got their cert on WinNT (4.0), then Win2K, WinXP, and now Vista... You have to renew your certifications... some tests are retired... etc.,...
Getting your 4 year degree is not life's end-game content. Aside from that... then you have your loans to pay.
...
I hate defending WoW or MMO's, but that's essentially what they do with their expansions and new RAIDs. They release new content and then give us incentive to discover their content... new levels/skills from exploring new areas, and new gear via new raids/raiding.
...
I do like the concept of the WoW 'heirloom' items, though. You raid and then you have something to pass down to your alts or use as you level. And I thought WoW was going to do the same thing with Legendary items (they were supposed to level as your character levels... so they would never become worthless/outgrown).
Almost every current mmo is just a recycling of repetitive tasks to gain small advancements for your avatar. Not that it is a grind, but what you just achieved will be replaced by something else tomorrow. Even the first level you gain will be replaced when you gain a new level. If you look really deep, then yes everything is the same basic formula for gameplay over and over.
If you obtain all the best gear that will be permanently "best", then what point is for you to keep playing the game?
The way Blizz thinks, each expansion raises the bar higher, and everyone has something to do every time new expansion comes out.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Sorry when did this happen? It's on its 14/15th expansion I think. Still must be successful in Sony's eyes to keep them coming. Not having 11million players doesn't mean a game has fallen by the wayside.
Sorry I got out the wrong side of bed this morning.
Core i5 13600KF, BeQuiet Pure Loop FX 360, 32gb DDR5-6000 XPG, WD SN850 NVMe ,PNY 3090 XLR8, Asus Prime Z790-A, Lian-Li O11 PCMR case (limited ed 1045/2000), 32" LG Ultragear 4k Monitor, Logitech G560 LightSync Sound, Razer Deathadder V2 and Razer Blackwidow V3 Keyboard
Why even play the game if you dont enjoy it? To me it seems like all you do is raid to get gear, if you don't enjoy raiding in itself why bother?
don't get me wrong I recently quit WoW after playing it from release but the only other option a gaming company has other than to release expansions and raise level caps otherwise all there is left to do is min-max and thats less fun than starting over I would recomend trying something new for a while and come back after the xpax are released
There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?