... to add some to one of my earlier post and as I thought more about UO, and though I loved the game and long for an updated remake, it really was not heavy rp or even lightly rp... player housing in the world, clothing and item customization aren't rp they are just cosmetic effects in a game. Also as I re-read the posts of many I am wondering if many posters equate rp to being able just doing what they want? That is not rp... rp is taking on the persona that your avatar represents, culture, beliefs, mannerisms, likes, dislikes etc. Its not about being able to place a house next to the dragon's cave or level v. skill systems. People lack the insight and willingness to be creative with what they are given... they want the best gear, to do the most damage, heal the most damage... blah blah blah. If "you" truely wanted to rp you would factor these things into your "immersion" - again imo I feel it is more of a community problem then a game dev.
I totally agreed with you, though maybe it didn't came through in my previous posts. RP is a state-of-mind, that players must have, or no-one else can give them. Being an offline RPer for more than a decade now, I know what it means.
Offline RPing differs in the people I can play with. Those around me are there for the same fun, and the adventure the GM brings. And when we don't like the story, we can make a twist in the tale, and we have a GM good enough not to retaliate and have revenge, but to adapt the new path, and improvise the story, so we can have fun.
But I got less and less time for going out to have a party, my friends are moving away with their new family, and I too have my own that takes time. And that's where MMORPGs came into view. In the late '90s I played a few months with MUDs, and the community there was really good. I thought that these MMOs are the descendants of those games with better graphics. But I got disappointed. These 3D systems were for those teenagers, who know little to nothing about RP, and who don't respect RPers.
And the games themselves do not support much of RP. I'm currently "playing" PWI on an RP server. And it's not that much of fun. The system is built for only one purpose, and there's no room for a small group to start RP. We can't place our own GM into the game to create adventures, and without that, it's really disappointing to walk in a world where everyone else is just hanging around, pking, grinding... It's really annoying.
That's why we came to the conclusion, that we must create a unique game. Unique in the style that it resembles to the offline RPGs. Create an open world which helps build this community, and as I said before is moderated by GMs, so nonRPers are punished to leave. It won't have as large of a community as todays MMOs. But those who remain would have the world they want.
That's what I mean when saying that a game can help RPing. But the biggest game publishers want masses of rotating players, instead of a stable group staying for years. We hope we can change that.
I recently joined a player made shard of UO (http://www.darkenedrealmstudios.com/forums/) and found what I was looking for. It is rather funny that I had to go back to UO to find a good RP community. After I gave up on the new MMOs I turn to player based games. I tried 2 servers based on NWN 1 and 2 but they had low pop and the game mechanics didn't please me. So I decided to try UO again. I found this player community, the shard has a good pop (around 22 players during night-time!) and they are all very good RPers!
I'm having a lot of fun!
If you are a dedicated role-players try it. I'm quite sure you wont regret.
Arden0010World of Warcraft CorrespondentMemberPosts: 18
Although it is not out yet, SW:TOR is going to be the best game for roleplaying immersion in an MMO environment, They have announced from E3 09 that the entire game will have fully voice acted NPCs. It would be ignorant to think that you can hold an interesting conversation about the state of the galaxy with every single one, However if you take a look at some of the big players currently on the market thats quite a big project.
Also for those who have not looked into it much each class will have entirely seperate story lines so if you decide to play two classes on the go you will not be re-rolling the same old quest lines that will bore you because of the extreme repetiton on *go kill me some rats kk??*
Sorry that I dont have any games for you that are currently on the market to give you that full RP immersion experience ^^
There is a reason people from your past did not make it to your future.
I still have my UO:Second Age box here and holy shizzo, even the box shows RPing - newspaper articles based on in-game activities - such as a murder, a festival and etc.
UO is definitely the ultimate RP MMO, MMOs nowadays aren't about RP, they are about you feeling strong and "pwning" everyone else, your quest for epic gears and that's it. And UO didn't even have quests.
Quests could be such a good RP mechanic if they actually changed the world or involved NPCs you wouldn't forget or never see anymore after you are done with the quests in that area and moved to the next one, but that could very well be adapted to be player-based. Imagine that.
Edit - (add) Unfortunately too many idiots now infest the MMOs, I wonder if it is possible to see another game based on UO being born, MMO companies now just want the money and the big numbers and they will make the game easy because of that, this "easy" mostly kills a RP immersion that you could feel in games like UO with the major features you mentioned, you didn't need to be a hardcore RPer to understand that immersion feeling that has never been felt again.
My view of RPGs is to be able to mold the world, change it, player-driven content. Getting levels, 1337 gear is twisting the RPG genre for me, especially when you forget about the former concepts.
I think Mortal Online has a good chance to be just the thing you're talking about. No global chat, no mini maps, first persion view... just a few things they've brought into the game purely for immersion.
Ultima Online is the only mmorpg that can fully support rp. The clothing, housing and item customization is there like no other game. Period.
... to add some to one of my earlier post and as I thought more about UO, and though I loved the game and long for an updated remake, it really was not heavy rp or even lightly rp... player housing in the world, clothing and item customization aren't rp they are just cosmetic effects in a game. Also as I re-read the posts of many I am wondering if many posters equate rp to being able just doing what they want? That is not rp... rp is taking on the persona that your avatar represents, culture, beliefs, mannerisms, likes, dislikes etc. Its not about being able to place a house next to the dragon's cave or level v. skill systems. People lack the insight and willingness to be creative with what they are given... they want the best gear, to do the most damage, heal the most damage... blah blah blah. If "you" truely wanted to rp you would factor these things into your "immersion" - again imo I feel it is more of a community problem then a game dev.
i used to play ultima online on the europa server for years and i liked the complete freedom to do anything thats for sure.
This freedom is not the same as RP, you are completely right here in my opinion. The key to RP is like you said the community:
* In a community like in ryzom which i played (and came back some days ago ) after leaving uo, RP can be lots of fun and possibilities are countless because of the mature and fine community. This makes RP really possible and deep. i sometimes really want to applaude (but i dont do *laughs") some player of the opposing faction for their great RP contribution.
* in a comunity like lineage2 (yes i tried that grindfest a few years ago), with the worst "community" i ever met in a game you can forget about RP.
I still feel that as far as strict role play goes, Second Life is still the best. Mostly because of the total freedom you can have in the game. There are several communities, everything from midieval to science fiction. You can make anything you can think of and use it in your role play. You can be any type of character, thier are hundreds of different avatars to use. There are thousands of outfits that you can ware, and most cost only pennies. You can even control exactly what your avatar does, you can make the animations. Most of the communities are also small, so you dont feel as if your just another face in the crowd. The role play also ranges from light to fully immersive. It is also very possible to speak directly with the sim owner, so you can make suggestions to the person that matters. Second Life also has a very mature group of players, your not even allowed to be there if your not 18.
The downside of all of this is that Second Life has a few major problems. One is the sexual content that has gotten in. While I know some enjoy this, I for one dont need to see my avatar have sex. One other thing is that the arcade style situations like shooting, sword fighting and such have alot to be desired. It's a shame the game developers dont make a game intended strictly for role players. They just need to bring together all the features noted in all these posts.
IMO, EVE offers one of the better opportunities to roleplay, mostly because just by playing the game eveyrone pretty much roleplays and its fairly easy to think you are living in that universe.
Unless of coruse, you are one of the folks that needs to see yourself walking around in the game. If so, you're out of luck.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I still feel that as far as strict role play goes, Second Life is still the best. Mostly because of the total freedom you can have in the game. There are several communities, everything from midieval to science fiction. You can make anything you can think of and use it in your role play. You can be any type of character, thier are hundreds of different avatars to use. There are thousands of outfits that you can ware, and most cost only pennies. You can even control exactly what your avatar does, you can make the animations. Most of the communities are also small, so you dont feel as if your just another face in the crowd. The role play also ranges from light to fully immersive. It is also very possible to speak directly with the sim owner, so you can make suggestions to the person that matters. Second Life also has a very mature group of players, your not even allowed to be there if your not 18.
The downside of all of this is that Second Life has a few major problems. One is the sexual content that has gotten in. While I know some enjoy this, I for one dont need to see my avatar have sex. One other thing is that the arcade style situations like shooting, sword fighting and such have alot to be desired. It's a shame the game developers dont make a game intended strictly for role players. They just need to bring together all the features noted in all these posts.
We are doing exactly this. Just finished our sites english version. No content yet, but we have a survey for phase-1 of our development. We would like to ask everyone, to fill it out to help or work. It can be found here: http://www.novyon.hu/survey.xhtml?ln=en
We are open to any questions, critics etc. Soon there will be much more content.
Just looking through this thread, it's easy to see why there's not a game out there that fully satisfies desires of roleplayers, because there are varying definitions of what roleplay is. For me, roleplaying isn't fuff additions that do nothing for gameplay, like voice acting, for example. Voiced NPCs may add to the immersion factor, but they do so in the same way you're more immersed in a good talking movie vs. a silent film. Unfortunately, as far as new games go, Mortal Online sounds like it'll be the best game to attempt roleplay with all the hype about freedom, but then you risk the scenerio I posted previously, where RPers clash with the "PEW PEW PEW!"'ers.
I really really hope that Star Vault will have the resources to make both a RP and Non-RP server, so both sides of the playstyle spectrum can have a home in the game. Sadly, due to their being a small developer, I doubt this will be the case. I'll be watching, though.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Just looking through this thread, it's easy to see why there's not a game out there that fully satisfies desires of roleplayers, because there are varying definitions of what roleplay is. For me, roleplaying isn't fuff additions that do nothing for gameplay, like voice acting, for example. Voiced NPCs may add to the immersion factor, but they do so in the same way you're more immersed in a good talking movie vs. a silent film. Unfortunately, as far as new games go, Mortal Online sounds like it'll be the best game to attempt roleplay with all the hype about freedom, but then you risk the scenerio I posted previously, where RPers clash with the "PEW PEW PEW!"'ers. I really really hope that Star Vault will have the resources to make both a RP and Non-RP server, so both sides of the playstyle spectrum can have a home in the game. Sadly, due to their being a small developer, I doubt this will be the case. I'll be watching, though.
I disagree with you. I think such game can be done, and 99%can be satisfied with one game, if it's done in the right way. If we can abstract the expectations and definitions, the base of them are the same. A world where the "PEW PEW PEW!"'ers are restricted, or even forced to leave. It's not that hard to do, but what makes it difficult for current games, they would loose a lot of their players. And they can't afford it, cause their business model is based upon their presence.
We think that serving RPers can be remunerative as well.
But I don't want to turn this topic into something it was intended to be about. So I'll open a new one about the requirements towards the ideal RPG.
Roma Victor is often overlooked due to its poor state of release and slow as hell development. But it is the only game I have ever personally played where roleplaying is not only accepted, but considered normal fare by the small and intimate community there.
I think most of it is due to the historical setting and the structure of the game itself. With no maps, radar, classes, magic, teleportation... Roma Victor just feels like a brutal representation of ancient life. To some this makes the game understandably unplayable. Having the historical background, and realistic limitations of a human for your character, seems to help exponentially for keeping things in perspective towards a more cohesive roleplaying environment. Just to understand where the game takes place and the cultures involved took some light research, so it immediately gave me a framework in which to imagine my character. I cannot defend many aspects of the game itself nor it's cycle of development, but sometimes just having a realistic sandbox environment to roleplay in is reason enough...
Has anyone tried Face of Mankind? I was understanding that's a RP game. I've been looking forward to its return but its been in close betaor something forever now.
Comments
I totally agreed with you, though maybe it didn't came through in my previous posts. RP is a state-of-mind, that players must have, or no-one else can give them. Being an offline RPer for more than a decade now, I know what it means.
Offline RPing differs in the people I can play with. Those around me are there for the same fun, and the adventure the GM brings. And when we don't like the story, we can make a twist in the tale, and we have a GM good enough not to retaliate and have revenge, but to adapt the new path, and improvise the story, so we can have fun.
But I got less and less time for going out to have a party, my friends are moving away with their new family, and I too have my own that takes time. And that's where MMORPGs came into view. In the late '90s I played a few months with MUDs, and the community there was really good. I thought that these MMOs are the descendants of those games with better graphics. But I got disappointed. These 3D systems were for those teenagers, who know little to nothing about RP, and who don't respect RPers.
And the games themselves do not support much of RP. I'm currently "playing" PWI on an RP server. And it's not that much of fun. The system is built for only one purpose, and there's no room for a small group to start RP. We can't place our own GM into the game to create adventures, and without that, it's really disappointing to walk in a world where everyone else is just hanging around, pking, grinding... It's really annoying.
That's why we came to the conclusion, that we must create a unique game. Unique in the style that it resembles to the offline RPGs. Create an open world which helps build this community, and as I said before is moderated by GMs, so nonRPers are punished to leave. It won't have as large of a community as todays MMOs. But those who remain would have the world they want.
That's what I mean when saying that a game can help RPing. But the biggest game publishers want masses of rotating players, instead of a stable group staying for years. We hope we can change that.
http://novyon.net
http://twitter.com/#!/PPXToH
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Perplexus-Tears-of-Hael/210678468975003
http://igg.me/p/32293?a=37272&i=shlk
Just to add some thoughts:
I recently joined a player made shard of UO (http://www.darkenedrealmstudios.com/forums/) and found what I was looking for. It is rather funny that I had to go back to UO to find a good RP community. After I gave up on the new MMOs I turn to player based games. I tried 2 servers based on NWN 1 and 2 but they had low pop and the game mechanics didn't please me. So I decided to try UO again. I found this player community, the shard has a good pop (around 22 players during night-time!) and they are all very good RPers!
I'm having a lot of fun!
If you are a dedicated role-players try it. I'm quite sure you wont regret.
Although it is not out yet, SW:TOR is going to be the best game for roleplaying immersion in an MMO environment, They have announced from E3 09 that the entire game will have fully voice acted NPCs. It would be ignorant to think that you can hold an interesting conversation about the state of the galaxy with every single one, However if you take a look at some of the big players currently on the market thats quite a big project.
Also for those who have not looked into it much each class will have entirely seperate story lines so if you decide to play two classes on the go you will not be re-rolling the same old quest lines that will bore you because of the extreme repetiton on *go kill me some rats kk??*
Sorry that I dont have any games for you that are currently on the market to give you that full RP immersion experience ^^
There is a reason people from your past did not make it to your future.
I still have my UO:Second Age box here and holy shizzo, even the box shows RPing - newspaper articles based on in-game activities - such as a murder, a festival and etc.
UO is definitely the ultimate RP MMO, MMOs nowadays aren't about RP, they are about you feeling strong and "pwning" everyone else, your quest for epic gears and that's it. And UO didn't even have quests.
Quests could be such a good RP mechanic if they actually changed the world or involved NPCs you wouldn't forget or never see anymore after you are done with the quests in that area and moved to the next one, but that could very well be adapted to be player-based. Imagine that.
Edit - (add) Unfortunately too many idiots now infest the MMOs, I wonder if it is possible to see another game based on UO being born, MMO companies now just want the money and the big numbers and they will make the game easy because of that, this "easy" mostly kills a RP immersion that you could feel in games like UO with the major features you mentioned, you didn't need to be a hardcore RPer to understand that immersion feeling that has never been felt again.
My view of RPGs is to be able to mold the world, change it, player-driven content. Getting levels, 1337 gear is twisting the RPG genre for me, especially when you forget about the former concepts.
I think Mortal Online has a good chance to be just the thing you're talking about. No global chat, no mini maps, first persion view... just a few things they've brought into the game purely for immersion.
... to add some to one of my earlier post and as I thought more about UO, and though I loved the game and long for an updated remake, it really was not heavy rp or even lightly rp... player housing in the world, clothing and item customization aren't rp they are just cosmetic effects in a game. Also as I re-read the posts of many I am wondering if many posters equate rp to being able just doing what they want? That is not rp... rp is taking on the persona that your avatar represents, culture, beliefs, mannerisms, likes, dislikes etc. Its not about being able to place a house next to the dragon's cave or level v. skill systems. People lack the insight and willingness to be creative with what they are given... they want the best gear, to do the most damage, heal the most damage... blah blah blah. If "you" truely wanted to rp you would factor these things into your "immersion" - again imo I feel it is more of a community problem then a game dev.
i used to play ultima online on the europa server for years and i liked the complete freedom to do anything thats for sure.
This freedom is not the same as RP, you are completely right here in my opinion. The key to RP is like you said the community:
* In a community like in ryzom which i played (and came back some days ago
) after leaving uo, RP can be lots of fun and possibilities are countless because of the mature and fine community. This makes RP really possible and deep. i sometimes really want to applaude (but i dont do *laughs") some player of the opposing faction for their great RP contribution.
* in a comunity like lineage2 (yes i tried that grindfest a few years ago), with the worst "community" i ever met in a game you can forget about RP.
I still feel that as far as strict role play goes, Second Life is still the best. Mostly because of the total freedom you can have in the game. There are several communities, everything from midieval to science fiction. You can make anything you can think of and use it in your role play. You can be any type of character, thier are hundreds of different avatars to use. There are thousands of outfits that you can ware, and most cost only pennies. You can even control exactly what your avatar does, you can make the animations. Most of the communities are also small, so you dont feel as if your just another face in the crowd. The role play also ranges from light to fully immersive. It is also very possible to speak directly with the sim owner, so you can make suggestions to the person that matters. Second Life also has a very mature group of players, your not even allowed to be there if your not 18.
The downside of all of this is that Second Life has a few major problems. One is the sexual content that has gotten in. While I know some enjoy this, I for one dont need to see my avatar have sex. One other thing is that the arcade style situations like shooting, sword fighting and such have alot to be desired. It's a shame the game developers dont make a game intended strictly for role players. They just need to bring together all the features noted in all these posts.
IMO, EVE offers one of the better opportunities to roleplay, mostly because just by playing the game eveyrone pretty much roleplays and its fairly easy to think you are living in that universe.
Unless of coruse, you are one of the folks that needs to see yourself walking around in the game. If so, you're out of luck.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
We are doing exactly this. Just finished our sites english version. No content yet, but we have a survey for phase-1 of our development. We would like to ask everyone, to fill it out to help or work. It can be found here: http://www.novyon.hu/survey.xhtml?ln=en
We are open to any questions, critics etc. Soon there will be much more content.
Thanks in advance.
http://novyon.net
http://twitter.com/#!/PPXToH
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Perplexus-Tears-of-Hael/210678468975003
http://igg.me/p/32293?a=37272&i=shlk
Just looking through this thread, it's easy to see why there's not a game out there that fully satisfies desires of roleplayers, because there are varying definitions of what roleplay is. For me, roleplaying isn't fuff additions that do nothing for gameplay, like voice acting, for example. Voiced NPCs may add to the immersion factor, but they do so in the same way you're more immersed in a good talking movie vs. a silent film. Unfortunately, as far as new games go, Mortal Online sounds like it'll be the best game to attempt roleplay with all the hype about freedom, but then you risk the scenerio I posted previously, where RPers clash with the "PEW PEW PEW!"'ers.
I really really hope that Star Vault will have the resources to make both a RP and Non-RP server, so both sides of the playstyle spectrum can have a home in the game. Sadly, due to their being a small developer, I doubt this will be the case. I'll be watching, though.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
I disagree with you. I think such game can be done, and 99%can be satisfied with one game, if it's done in the right way. If we can abstract the expectations and definitions, the base of them are the same. A world where the "PEW PEW PEW!"'ers are restricted, or even forced to leave. It's not that hard to do, but what makes it difficult for current games, they would loose a lot of their players. And they can't afford it, cause their business model is based upon their presence.
We think that serving RPers can be remunerative as well.
But I don't want to turn this topic into something it was intended to be about. So I'll open a new one about the requirements towards the ideal RPG.
http://novyon.net
http://twitter.com/#!/PPXToH
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Perplexus-Tears-of-Hael/210678468975003
http://igg.me/p/32293?a=37272&i=shlk
Roma Victor is often overlooked due to its poor state of release and slow as hell development. But it is the only game I have ever personally played where roleplaying is not only accepted, but considered normal fare by the small and intimate community there.
I think most of it is due to the historical setting and the structure of the game itself. With no maps, radar, classes, magic, teleportation... Roma Victor just feels like a brutal representation of ancient life. To some this makes the game understandably unplayable. Having the historical background, and realistic limitations of a human for your character, seems to help exponentially for keeping things in perspective towards a more cohesive roleplaying environment. Just to understand where the game takes place and the cultures involved took some light research, so it immediately gave me a framework in which to imagine my character. I cannot defend many aspects of the game itself nor it's cycle of development, but sometimes just having a realistic sandbox environment to roleplay in is reason enough...
Has anyone tried Face of Mankind? I was understanding that's a RP game. I've been looking forward to its return but its been in close betaor something forever now.