They tell us that it will be both sided. As always though, the more you play, the more rewarding it will be, obviously. They also say you will be able to too different t ypes of weapons for the type of thing you want to do. It's very interesting.
Grouping should be A LOT more rewarding then soloing, its an MMO. That doesn't mean casual play shouldn't be viable. If I am gonna solo maybe I can knock out some quests or a bit of exp. It would also be nice to be able to log in and knock out some exp in smaller groups, like with a friend or two instead of needing a full group that takes an hour just to put together only to have your healer or tank leave. Casual doesn't have to be easy either, you can make casual content challenging. Time sinks =! Challenge.
QFT! I also like to say very nice post Darxo. Getting lvl's in FFXI were true acheivements! There are many many many things that I miss about FFXI. I left and came back many many times, but it always boiled down to during the week I had about 1 hour to play and I found that I wouldn't even log in during the week. I finally just had to say goodbye after 3 solid years of playing and 8 months of going back and fourth. I've played WoW off and on since then, its ok. I really like LOTRO but I have a fantastic guild in WoW and that is what holds me there currently. I like playing with them, just not the biggest fan of the game. I tend to go back and forth between WoW and LOTRO now.
When I read that FFXIV would have content for those who could only be on for 40 minutes I jumped for joy!! I did not read though that the game would be "aimed" at casual players, but maybe I missed something. I think the SE can pull off a game that is still group oriented (and it would be nice if you could do small groups too :P) but have something you can do on those days when you just can't be in the game world for long. The future will tell Even though I can only play for a bit I don't want them to change FFXIV completely from FFXI, grouping did keep the community strong, so lets stay positive and have faith that SE will pull this off
Currently Playing: FFXIV:ARR Looking Forward to: Wildstar
I always think like think. Isn't the purpose of a mmo is to group with other players to acheive goals and to have fun ?I have soloed plenty of mmos but that is only because these days people have this vendetta aginst grouping but yet they want to be part of a guild.
In FFXI I grouped from start to finish. I even grouped for my fame ranks and my epic class gear for my Red Mage. The only time I never grouped was for mining ore and kicking Maat's tush. If they made it more for the casuals I would suppose more would play but one of the reasons why FFXI was so different from everyone is because it actually taught people how to work together as a team unlike many other mmos. 10 Redmage LFG Yes Please!
I just read that as saying casual gamers will be able to jump in for an hour or two and feel satisfied. You'd be lucky to even find a party within 2 hours on FFXI. I think they're just saying it won't be only for the hardcore, unlike FFXI. Well, you can be a casual gamer and play FFXI, if you don't mind spending years on it.
haha, oh how this statement relates to so many people.
I was often waiting more than about 6 or 7 hours for a party because nobody wanted the "dancer" in a group in the dunes and they would go for 2 or 3 healers and the rest DD and if you got lucky, a tank. This was the case also in other areas, like the play with delfkutt's tower and kazham's forests. I was often left waiting hours for a party talking to my linkshell and playing on my ds or xbox to pass time. I also often found no parties whatsoever and had basically wasted 10 - 12 hours a day doing nothing on it but wait for pt invite.
Level Sync was one of their most brilliant ideas ever. With the introduction of this, i managed to get my monk and ninja to level 37 each to focus on dancer to 75 within about 2 weeks (being on everyday of course) because you would get invited to low level parties (10-20) in dunes and jeuno and would actually gain decent xp to help you level. It did not take longer to level than it would in a party your own level range, the only downside was you were often in the same place for days and days on end. I spent up to around level 25 in dunes because i was getting invites from people between level 10 and 20 and just staying there to synch with others if a party member left.
I am very concerned about this from the E3 Q&A: Q: What influence have games like World of WarCraft have on the development of FFXIV?
A: As with WoW, we want to aim a bit for the casual user. However, we don't want to make a copy of WoW. We believe we will have things that are unique and will stand out from that game.
From my persective FFXI was very rewarding because it was not dumbed down. So I guess I am asking:
They don't just want to make a game for the 500k playing F11, they want to make a game to capture a wider audience.
Making another F11 would not help them in pursuit of that goal, and it would only serve to please FF11 fans. So it probably will be "dumbed down", whatever that exactly entails in your book, seeing as you don't say.
As for that answer, pretty sure most WoW clones said the same thing, "we won't be the same, we will be different in XYZ ways".
you guys don't get Squre-Enix at all if you think this game will be easy. I promise it will be very very hard. Even in FFXI they added some instant gratification content. Square-Enix doesn't make games for westerners... EVER. This game will be made with the japanese audience in mind, I can promise you that.
I believe SE recently stated that FFXIII will be the hardest FF they've ever made.....shows promise that they're possibly increasing the difficulty in FFXIV as well, but adding means to solo a bit like FFXI has now!
I want the new FF to be special. But.. The control system should be more aimed for everyone. And you should be able to change all the controls, and also addons should be able to install.
I doubt SE will allow mods, they are pretty uptight about stuff like that. I wouldn't mind certain types of mods like, interface enhancements and custom UIs but stuff like damage meters oh god no. I believe damage meters would hurt groups, so many times in parties I sacraficed my DPS a lot for the over all benefit of the group. Like using weak weapon skills for chains so the casters can burst, if me gimping myself made the BLMs damage go way up and do more overall damage in the long run I was happy, and off tanking adds and various other things. You can tell who good players are without seeing damage meters, lets keep the group mechanics and teamwork more important than DPS zerging. Threat meters I am so/so on, I'd rather have an ingame indicator that gives you a general idea.
you guys don't get Squre-Enix at all if you think this game will be easy. I promise it will be very very hard. Even in FFXI they added some instant gratification content. Square-Enix doesn't make games for westerners... EVER. This game will be made with the japanese audience in mind, I can promise you that.
People were promising that all NCSoft could ever make was grindy grindy cashshop games for Koreans and Asian audiences as well. They would never make an anime stylized game with Westerners in mind since we just don't go for that as a market. Ever. And it looks like they were righ... doh! AION.
Aion is not grindy, not aimed only at the Koreans but Westerners as well. You cannot promise that SE will only make a game directed at Japanese players anymore than someone could promise NCSoft would never get any real interest in one of their titles from NA/EU.
In the day and age of money chasing, there is no longer a "never" as companies realize there is more money to be had trying to please everyone. Look at those messy things called SWG and WAR. Both tried to please everyone (casuals and base players) and get ALL THE MONEY instead of sticking to their core fans and making great games. They are both paying the price for their disloyal ways as their cores fall off and are only left with transistory players and the few die hards. Only time will tell with FFXIV, but one thing is for sure.
If SE decides to make this game overly easy and with all these casuals players in mind, this game will suffer because that will make it ten times as easy for anyone who has played FFXI for years. And as loyal a base as most of us FFXI players are, they are adults won't stand for that dumbing down. Unlike the younger crowd in most other games, a FFXI vet will certainly walk away with his money and maybe even go back to FFXI (if it's still running then) instead of whining about the easy and dumbed down gameplay in FFXIV month after month after month. Adult players usually have things to do IRL and will just do that instead without the empty threads of cancelling.
Originally posted by Khrymson Originally posted by patrikd23 and also addons should be able to install.
Oh hell no, do not ruin this game with mods S-E!
Backed as well with a resounding NO Add-ons and mods. How can people be calling for mods already when they don't even know if the game will have a need for them in the first place? FFXI did not "need" mods.
(Although SE could have tried to streamline the Auction system a bit better, but it wasn't "needed")
I am too lazy or it may be I have a life outside of these forums and do not want to everyones response; and I am sure what I have to say has been said/asked already...
I personally did not find WoW to be a game geared toward the casual gamer... granted that I have not played in a couple of years and it may have changed, but when I was playing it didn't feel too "casual" to me... I mean what does "casual" mean? What are the alternatives? I personally have no interest in playing a game that requires me to log in for hours a day, everyday in order to feel like I am "in the game". My general rule is that when a game starts feeling like work, and I have to pay them, I stop playing
It wouldnt hurt ffxi 14 to adopt a bit of casual play into its development. One of the worst things i hated about ffxi 11 even though i love the game, is that you have to wait for building teams for hours at times. during that time you might not have anything to do. A bit of solo play would help ease that burden of boredom and waiting for other people. So to a certain degree i welcome the casual content, but you guys should be clear that they arent doing it like WOW. They have said this.
you guys don't get Squre-Enix at all if you think this game will be easy. I promise it will be very very hard. Even in FFXI they added some instant gratification content. Square-Enix doesn't make games for westerners... EVER. This game will be made with the japanese audience in mind, I can promise you that.
People were promising that all NCSoft could ever make was grindy grindy cashshop games for Koreans and Asian audiences as well. They would never make an anime stylized game with Westerners in mind since we just don't go for that as a market. Ever. And it looks like they were righ... doh! AION.
Aion is not grindy, not aimed only at the Koreans but Westerners as well. You cannot promise that SE will only make a game directed at Japanese players anymore than someone could promise NCSoft would never get any real interest in one of their titles from NA/EU.
In the day and age of money chasing, there is no longer a "never" as companies realize there is more money to be had trying to please everyone. Look at those messy things called SWG and WAR. Both tried to please everyone (casuals and base players) and get ALL THE MONEY instead of sticking to their core fans and making great games. They are both paying the price for their disloyal ways as their cores fall off and are only left with transistory players and the few die hards. Only time will tell with FFXIV, but one thing is for sure.
If SE decides to make this game overly easy and with all these casuals players in mind, this game will suffer because that will make it ten times as easy for anyone who has played FFXI for years. And as loyal a base as most of us FFXI players are, they are adults won't stand for that dumbing down. Unlike the younger crowd in most other games, a FFXI vet will certainly walk away with his money and maybe even go back to FFXI (if it's still running then) instead of whining about the easy and dumbed down gameplay in FFXIV month after month after month. Adult players usually have things to do IRL and will just do that instead without the empty threads of cancelling.
They'll just cancel.
That's the beauty of it though. They will still keep their hardcore in FFXI. I really think anyone who thinks this game is going to be hardcore is going to be severly disappointed in this new game. Every FFXI vet is basically hoping for an FFXI 2 with upgraded graphics and I highly doubt its going to happen. Why will they make a hardcore game when they can just keep their hardcore playerbase in FFXI anyway, it don't make sense. This game will surely improve on a lot of the better features of FFXI, but this game is going to be different in many many ways.
I loved FFXI and played for years, no other MMO I have ever played was as immersive, FFXI really did feel like its own living breathing world, and the community added even more onto that, never made so many deep friendships in another game, I hope they can recreate that feeling without needing to commit to the game like a job. I hope they don't "dumb it down" but I also hope its not a life draining time sink like FFXI used to be. There is nothing challenging or hard about unecessary time sinks.You are right though, time will tell. This game is very far into development already and a year away from release, if they made this game with casuals in mind or hardcore in mind, our feedback on the issue is moot at this point.
I want to state one more time casual does not have to be easy. You can have hardcore content without massive time sinks.
I want to state one more time casual does not have to be easy. You can have hardcore content without massive time sinks.
Excellent points and a nice read/write, Skeet.
If you look at Mythic's Warhammer, lots of DAOC fans went it there thinking "Yay! DAOC II!" and they all came away with a sour taste in their mouths. The funny thing was a lot of them, even though they were extremely pissed at Mythic, went RIGHT BACK to DAOC and resubbed, lol. The same thing might or might not happen with FFXIV if it comes out that way, so nice point.
One thing I do note for me personally was that even though FFXI required HUGE chunks of time to play, I never once considered it as you do a "time sink". There were times when parties did not form up immediately and I got frustrated and logged off, but the way I reflect back on my time there was very good.
If I had been able to log into FFXI every other day and knock out a level each time practically solo like you can do in almost every other "casual MMO" these days, I would not have played FFXI for over three years because I would have flown through the content without blinking.
Instead, it was like you said, I was able to make very deep and lasting friendships with people I never actually met (even to this day) and the game PROGRESSED at a very good rate. Every other game I've played since then, EQ2, WoW, WAR, AoC... I've made friends but because the content and endgame was easily reached even for casuals, most got tired of playing after 1 year and played less and less or quit.
In Wow it was, "Hey, you guys want to go and do Kara?"
"Nah, we did that already this week. We're are locked out."
In FFXI, "Hey, you guys want to help me with Mission X,Y,Z so I can unlock SEA?"
"Sure, np."
In those other games, there was no "catching up" really as it was just level based for the most part. If you were a 70, you got to automatically go here/there. (Although Wow did had a lot of "keys" to get for plenty of its dungeons, I must say) It was all dungeons mostly, although they were fun.
The people in FFXI hung on for years and just about the time we all finished most of the content.. bam! SE put in an expansion which took tons of time to do.
I had four 75s in FFXI: RNG, BST, RDM, BLM and two maxed crafts (Blacksmithing, Cooking) in over three years and none of that was easy. In WoW, I had four maxed characters: Rogue, Protwar, Shaman, Shadowpriest and four maxed crafts in less than a year and most of that was easy. I felt a greater sense of fun and accomplishment in FFXI and in the end, that's all any gamer can ask for really.
I do wish that they'll make the time it takes to get to the cap longer than it was in FFXI. Mainly because everyone will progress faster this time because of soloing.. that speeds things up.. But I still would like it to take at least the same amount time to get to cap as in XI. I really liked it. The game was at it's best when I was 1-74. I hope it'll last as long in XIV too. They'll just have to make a bit more low/midgame content so it won't suddenly feel like a such grind. Balance is important.
Of course those who rush to the cap won't be as happy. But that's not what FF MMO should be about in the first place, so too bad for them.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I want to state one more time casual does not have to be easy. You can have hardcore content without massive time sinks.
Excellent points and a nice read/write, Skeet.
If you look at Mythic's Warhammer, lots of DAOC fans went it there thinking "Yay! DAOC II!" and they all came away with a sour taste in their mouths. The funny thing was a lot of them, even though they were extremely pissed at Mythic, went RIGHT BACK to DAOC and resubbed, lol. The same thing might or might not happen with FFXIV if it comes out that way, so nice point.
In Wow it was, "Hey, you guys want to go and do Kara?"
"Nah, we did that already this week. We're are locked out."
In FFXI, "Hey, you guys want to help me with Mission X,Y,Z so I can unlock SEA?"
"Sure, np."
I feel that grouping up is an issue in most games, the only game I recall not having a problem is in Guild Wars and that's just because of the nature of that game.
If somehow in some way SE can solve the downtime in finding a party and have the right amount of content for all types of play they'll be sitting on gold. For example the new updates coming to Aion have high level upgrades, content and dungeons for the hardcore player and the casual. IMO that's the right attitude right there. There's actual more content for the hardcore and one casual leveling dungeon and that's how it should be.
Travel times will have to be cut from the get go, while I really love travelling by chocobo or foot in FF11 I sighed a deep sigh of relief once I got my airship pass and my black mage to 18 so I can use warp.. Maybe they'll have small air ships or helicopters or warp tarus to help people get together in good time.
If somehow in some way SE can solve the downtime in finding a party and have the right amount of content for all types of play they'll be sitting on gold. For example the new updates coming to Aion have high level upgrades, content and dungeons for the hardcore player and the casual. IMO that's the right attitude right there. There's actual more content for the hardcore and one casual leveling dungeon and that's how it should be. Travel times will have to be cut from the get go, while I really love travelling by chocobo or foot in FF11 I sighed a deep sigh of relief once I got my airship pass and my black mage to 18 so I can use warp.. Maybe they'll have small air ships or helicopters or warp tarus to help people get together in good time.
I think there's many ways for SE to make it easier, but one problem will still prevail (more of that later though).
They could improve the search system, make traveling to camp faster (like you said), getting a rep an easy process (no need to wait for one 20mins), make it so camps can't be "taken" and also create a battle system that isn't so harsh when it comes to bad parties. Mobs should also be fairly easy (not in a bad way, but really: +100% defense up ws that you possibly can't dispel without the aid of 2-3 jobs, or AoE damage that takes everyone to red? Those things have to go), and there shouldn't be any Undead especially in the starter areas that can kill your party in a matter of seconds. These things would make it quite good.
However there's still the issue of specific job roles. No healer lfp? /disband. No tank? /disband. This is something that will ruin even the best of systems when it comes to partying. And I don't think there's a perfect way around it. SE could make it so jobs roles changed from the normal DD/Tank/Healer archetypes to something different, for example Support/Crowd control. Every job would be able to do damage and heal, but Support would heal a bit better while Crowd control would do a bit more damage. That way we wouldn't be as restricted when making a party; just about anyone could do the job, and even if you got too many support and too little CC, the party could still function effectively. There might be problems in this system though (nobody likes to heal, everyone likes to DD = no healers lfp? etc.) so I don't know if there is even a solution to this...
I do hope that SE has figured it out though. I do think it has to be something revolutionary to work however.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
There might be problems in this system though (nobody likes to heal, everyone likes to DD = no healers lfp? etc.) so I don't know if there is even a solution to this...
I resent this statement cause there are players that love to heal...namely myself! I loved sitting back and playing the Heal-Bot, and letting everyone else do all the fighting for me while I struggled to keep them alive! Believe it or not there is so much more to being a healer than just standing there popping a heal on your party from time to time!
Gotta watch all party members HP including yourself from AoE and hate generated dmg!
Depending on the enemies, gotta pop buffs at regular times especially Bar spells Stonra, Fira, Aera and Watera the most.
Debuffs like Poisona and Blindna!
Keeping Protect and Shell up and getting it back up on new members to the party or those that died while minimizing downtimes!
Silencing mobs.
Healing everyone to full before next pull!
Sneak/Invis/Deodorize your party through dangerous areas and raise
Managing MP while trying to do everything ^above^ while holding onto enough to keep heals going as well as time for resting before the next pull or an add!
Healing is an insanely exciting Job that I love to do!
LOL Hyanmen wasn't saying anything bad about healers it's just that generally they are harder to find then let's say damage dealers. It depends on the game too, take EQ2 the fury is a healer class but it also has decent dd and is the prime solo class, in short it rains furies....
I also like mutli utility classes myself, while good at one thing they can also pull off other skill if you need them that's in my book a very good idea. But there are some people who really do love the holy trinity too. :P
I think the new system in Ff14 will be more flexible while not totally transforming the usual tank, healer and dd triad. Heh we'll see. :0)
Well, let me rephrase - there will be as many healers as before.. and we would have hard time finding them still, even though anyone can do the job .
Key word being "Job". This is why healer classes are the least played in every single game. Instead of playing like a game, it plays like a job. On top of that, everyone blames the healer for failure and rarely ever shows gratitude for a "job" well done. Kind of crappy since they spend most of their play time trying to make yours fun.
Blame the stupid developers that can't look past heal bot mode. God forbid they come up with a system that allows healers to heal while they are actively participating in combat and without having to stare at frakking health bars the entire time. Would it kill a game if all heals were group based, so you don't have to frigging micro manage targeting members? Why can't they attach heals to every attack so that you never have to sit back and stare at health bars while everyone else gets to have fun and actually watch the combat unfold? Even better yet, get rid of dedicated healer classes and let everyone worry about their own health for once.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Comments
Please see this video about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okzsHqeEQOM
They tell us that it will be both sided. As always though, the more you play, the more rewarding it will be, obviously. They also say you will be able to too different t ypes of weapons for the type of thing you want to do. It's very interesting.
Darxo, that was an awesome read and has everything I wan't to scream at the people against a dificult group oriented game.
I had a 75 mage also.....ya getting that hat was an epic achievment, my Mithra pld was pretty chalenging also.
QFT! I also like to say very nice post Darxo. Getting lvl's in FFXI were true acheivements! There are many many many things that I miss about FFXI. I left and came back many many times, but it always boiled down to during the week I had about 1 hour to play and I found that I wouldn't even log in during the week. I finally just had to say goodbye after 3 solid years of playing and 8 months of going back and fourth. I've played WoW off and on since then, its ok. I really like LOTRO but I have a fantastic guild in WoW and that is what holds me there currently. I like playing with them, just not the biggest fan of the game. I tend to go back and forth between WoW and LOTRO now.
When I read that FFXIV would have content for those who could only be on for 40 minutes I jumped for joy!! I did not read though that the game would be "aimed" at casual players, but maybe I missed something. I think the SE can pull off a game that is still group oriented (and it would be nice if you could do small groups too :P) but have something you can do on those days when you just can't be in the game world for long. The future will tell
Even though I can only play for a bit I don't want them to change FFXIV completely from FFXI, grouping did keep the community strong, so lets stay positive and have faith that SE will pull this off 
Currently Playing: FFXIV:ARR
Looking Forward to: Wildstar
I always think like think. Isn't the purpose of a mmo is to group with other players to acheive goals and to have fun ?I have soloed plenty of mmos but that is only because these days people have this vendetta aginst grouping but yet they want to be part of a guild.
In FFXI I grouped from start to finish. I even grouped for my fame ranks and my epic class gear for my Red Mage. The only time I never grouped was for mining ore and kicking Maat's tush.
If they made it more for the casuals I would suppose more would play but one of the reasons why FFXI was so different from everyone is because it actually taught people how to work together as a team unlike many other mmos. 10 Redmage LFG Yes Please!
haha, oh how this statement relates to so many people.
I was often waiting more than about 6 or 7 hours for a party because nobody wanted the "dancer" in a group in the dunes and they would go for 2 or 3 healers and the rest DD and if you got lucky, a tank. This was the case also in other areas, like the play with delfkutt's tower and kazham's forests. I was often left waiting hours for a party talking to my linkshell and playing on my ds or xbox to pass time. I also often found no parties whatsoever and had basically wasted 10 - 12 hours a day doing nothing on it but wait for pt invite.
Level Sync was one of their most brilliant ideas ever. With the introduction of this, i managed to get my monk and ninja to level 37 each to focus on dancer to 75 within about 2 weeks (being on everyday of course) because you would get invited to low level parties (10-20) in dunes and jeuno and would actually gain decent xp to help you level. It did not take longer to level than it would in a party your own level range, the only downside was you were often in the same place for days and days on end. I spent up to around level 25 in dunes because i was getting invites from people between level 10 and 20 and just staying there to synch with others if a party member left.
good times =]
hope 14 has a wedding system like 11...
They don't just want to make a game for the 500k playing F11, they want to make a game to capture a wider audience.
Making another F11 would not help them in pursuit of that goal, and it would only serve to please FF11 fans. So it probably will be "dumbed down", whatever that exactly entails in your book, seeing as you don't say.
As for that answer, pretty sure most WoW clones said the same thing, "we won't be the same, we will be different in XYZ ways".
you guys don't get Squre-Enix at all if you think this game will be easy. I promise it will be very very hard. Even in FFXI they added some instant gratification content. Square-Enix doesn't make games for westerners... EVER. This game will be made with the japanese audience in mind, I can promise you that.
Yeah, hard.. but this time not in the time consuming way.
I believe SE recently stated that FFXIII will be the hardest FF they've ever made.....shows promise that they're possibly increasing the difficulty in FFXIV as well, but adding means to solo a bit like FFXI has now!
I want the new FF to be special. But.. The control system should be more aimed for everyone. And you should be able to change all the controls, and also addons should be able to install.
Oh hell no, do not ruin this game with mods S-E!
I doubt SE will allow mods, they are pretty uptight about stuff like that. I wouldn't mind certain types of mods like, interface enhancements and custom UIs but stuff like damage meters oh god no. I believe damage meters would hurt groups, so many times in parties I sacraficed my DPS a lot for the over all benefit of the group. Like using weak weapon skills for chains so the casters can burst, if me gimping myself made the BLMs damage go way up and do more overall damage in the long run I was happy, and off tanking adds and various other things. You can tell who good players are without seeing damage meters, lets keep the group mechanics and teamwork more important than DPS zerging. Threat meters I am so/so on, I'd rather have an ingame indicator that gives you a general idea.
People were promising that all NCSoft could ever make was grindy grindy cashshop games for Koreans and Asian audiences as well. They would never make an anime stylized game with Westerners in mind since we just don't go for that as a market. Ever. And it looks like they were righ... doh! AION.
Aion is not grindy, not aimed only at the Koreans but Westerners as well. You cannot promise that SE will only make a game directed at Japanese players anymore than someone could promise NCSoft would never get any real interest in one of their titles from NA/EU.
In the day and age of money chasing, there is no longer a "never" as companies realize there is more money to be had trying to please everyone. Look at those messy things called SWG and WAR. Both tried to please everyone (casuals and base players) and get ALL THE MONEY instead of sticking to their core fans and making great games. They are both paying the price for their disloyal ways as their cores fall off and are only left with transistory players and the few die hards. Only time will tell with FFXIV, but one thing is for sure.
If SE decides to make this game overly easy and with all these casuals players in mind, this game will suffer because that will make it ten times as easy for anyone who has played FFXI for years. And as loyal a base as most of us FFXI players are, they are adults won't stand for that dumbing down. Unlike the younger crowd in most other games, a FFXI vet will certainly walk away with his money and maybe even go back to FFXI (if it's still running then) instead of whining about the easy and dumbed down gameplay in FFXIV month after month after month. Adult players usually have things to do IRL and will just do that instead without the empty threads of cancelling.
They'll just cancel.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Oh hell no, do not ruin this game with mods S-E!
Backed as well with a resounding NO Add-ons and mods. How can people be calling for mods already when they don't even know if the game will have a need for them in the first place? FFXI did not "need" mods.
(Although SE could have tried to streamline the Auction system a bit better, but it wasn't "needed")
"TO MICHAEL!"
I am too lazy or it may be I have a life outside of these forums and do not want to everyones response; and I am sure what I have to say has been said/asked already...
I personally did not find WoW to be a game geared toward the casual gamer... granted that I have not played in a couple of years and it may have changed, but when I was playing it didn't feel too "casual" to me... I mean what does "casual" mean? What are the alternatives? I personally have no interest in playing a game that requires me to log in for hours a day, everyday in order to feel like I am "in the game". My general rule is that when a game starts feeling like work, and I have to pay them, I stop playing
It wouldnt hurt ffxi 14 to adopt a bit of casual play into its development. One of the worst things i hated about ffxi 11 even though i love the game, is that you have to wait for building teams for hours at times. during that time you might not have anything to do. A bit of solo play would help ease that burden of boredom and waiting for other people. So to a certain degree i welcome the casual content, but you guys should be clear that they arent doing it like WOW. They have said this.
People were promising that all NCSoft could ever make was grindy grindy cashshop games for Koreans and Asian audiences as well. They would never make an anime stylized game with Westerners in mind since we just don't go for that as a market. Ever. And it looks like they were righ... doh! AION.
Aion is not grindy, not aimed only at the Koreans but Westerners as well. You cannot promise that SE will only make a game directed at Japanese players anymore than someone could promise NCSoft would never get any real interest in one of their titles from NA/EU.
In the day and age of money chasing, there is no longer a "never" as companies realize there is more money to be had trying to please everyone. Look at those messy things called SWG and WAR. Both tried to please everyone (casuals and base players) and get ALL THE MONEY instead of sticking to their core fans and making great games. They are both paying the price for their disloyal ways as their cores fall off and are only left with transistory players and the few die hards. Only time will tell with FFXIV, but one thing is for sure.
If SE decides to make this game overly easy and with all these casuals players in mind, this game will suffer because that will make it ten times as easy for anyone who has played FFXI for years. And as loyal a base as most of us FFXI players are, they are adults won't stand for that dumbing down. Unlike the younger crowd in most other games, a FFXI vet will certainly walk away with his money and maybe even go back to FFXI (if it's still running then) instead of whining about the easy and dumbed down gameplay in FFXIV month after month after month. Adult players usually have things to do IRL and will just do that instead without the empty threads of cancelling.
They'll just cancel.
That's the beauty of it though. They will still keep their hardcore in FFXI. I really think anyone who thinks this game is going to be hardcore is going to be severly disappointed in this new game. Every FFXI vet is basically hoping for an FFXI 2 with upgraded graphics and I highly doubt its going to happen. Why will they make a hardcore game when they can just keep their hardcore playerbase in FFXI anyway, it don't make sense. This game will surely improve on a lot of the better features of FFXI, but this game is going to be different in many many ways.
I loved FFXI and played for years, no other MMO I have ever played was as immersive, FFXI really did feel like its own living breathing world, and the community added even more onto that, never made so many deep friendships in another game, I hope they can recreate that feeling without needing to commit to the game like a job. I hope they don't "dumb it down" but I also hope its not a life draining time sink like FFXI used to be. There is nothing challenging or hard about unecessary time sinks.You are right though, time will tell. This game is very far into development already and a year away from release, if they made this game with casuals in mind or hardcore in mind, our feedback on the issue is moot at this point.
I want to state one more time casual does not have to be easy. You can have hardcore content without massive time sinks.
Excellent points and a nice read/write, Skeet.
If you look at Mythic's Warhammer, lots of DAOC fans went it there thinking "Yay! DAOC II!" and they all came away with a sour taste in their mouths. The funny thing was a lot of them, even though they were extremely pissed at Mythic, went RIGHT BACK to DAOC and resubbed, lol. The same thing might or might not happen with FFXIV if it comes out that way, so nice point.
One thing I do note for me personally was that even though FFXI required HUGE chunks of time to play, I never once considered it as you do a "time sink". There were times when parties did not form up immediately and I got frustrated and logged off, but the way I reflect back on my time there was very good.
If I had been able to log into FFXI every other day and knock out a level each time practically solo like you can do in almost every other "casual MMO" these days, I would not have played FFXI for over three years because I would have flown through the content without blinking.
Instead, it was like you said, I was able to make very deep and lasting friendships with people I never actually met (even to this day) and the game PROGRESSED at a very good rate. Every other game I've played since then, EQ2, WoW, WAR, AoC... I've made friends but because the content and endgame was easily reached even for casuals, most got tired of playing after 1 year and played less and less or quit.
In Wow it was, "Hey, you guys want to go and do Kara?"
"Nah, we did that already this week. We're are locked out."
In FFXI, "Hey, you guys want to help me with Mission X,Y,Z so I can unlock SEA?"
"Sure, np."
In those other games, there was no "catching up" really as it was just level based for the most part. If you were a 70, you got to automatically go here/there. (Although Wow did had a lot of "keys" to get for plenty of its dungeons, I must say) It was all dungeons mostly, although they were fun.
The people in FFXI hung on for years and just about the time we all finished most of the content.. bam! SE put in an expansion which took tons of time to do.
I had four 75s in FFXI: RNG, BST, RDM, BLM and two maxed crafts (Blacksmithing, Cooking) in over three years and none of that was easy. In WoW, I had four maxed characters: Rogue, Protwar, Shaman, Shadowpriest and four maxed crafts in less than a year and most of that was easy. I felt a greater sense of fun and accomplishment in FFXI and in the end, that's all any gamer can ask for really.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I do wish that they'll make the time it takes to get to the cap longer than it was in FFXI. Mainly because everyone will progress faster this time because of soloing.. that speeds things up.. But I still would like it to take at least the same amount time to get to cap as in XI. I really liked it. The game was at it's best when I was 1-74. I hope it'll last as long in XIV too. They'll just have to make a bit more low/midgame content so it won't suddenly feel like a such grind. Balance is important.
Of course those who rush to the cap won't be as happy. But that's not what FF MMO should be about in the first place, so too bad for them.
Excellent points and a nice read/write, Skeet.
If you look at Mythic's Warhammer, lots of DAOC fans went it there thinking "Yay! DAOC II!" and they all came away with a sour taste in their mouths. The funny thing was a lot of them, even though they were extremely pissed at Mythic, went RIGHT BACK to DAOC and resubbed, lol. The same thing might or might not happen with FFXIV if it comes out that way, so nice point.
In Wow it was, "Hey, you guys want to go and do Kara?"
"Nah, we did that already this week. We're are locked out."
In FFXI, "Hey, you guys want to help me with Mission X,Y,Z so I can unlock SEA?"
"Sure, np."
I feel that grouping up is an issue in most games, the only game I recall not having a problem is in Guild Wars and that's just because of the nature of that game.
If somehow in some way SE can solve the downtime in finding a party and have the right amount of content for all types of play they'll be sitting on gold. For example the new updates coming to Aion have high level upgrades, content and dungeons for the hardcore player and the casual. IMO that's the right attitude right there. There's actual more content for the hardcore and one casual leveling dungeon and that's how it should be.
Travel times will have to be cut from the get go, while I really love travelling by chocobo or foot in FF11 I sighed a deep sigh of relief once I got my airship pass and my black mage to 18 so I can use warp.. Maybe they'll have small air ships or helicopters or warp tarus to help people get together in good time.
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I think there's many ways for SE to make it easier, but one problem will still prevail (more of that later though).
They could improve the search system, make traveling to camp faster (like you said), getting a rep an easy process (no need to wait for one 20mins), make it so camps can't be "taken" and also create a battle system that isn't so harsh when it comes to bad parties. Mobs should also be fairly easy (not in a bad way, but really: +100% defense up ws that you possibly can't dispel without the aid of 2-3 jobs, or AoE damage that takes everyone to red? Those things have to go), and there shouldn't be any Undead especially in the starter areas that can kill your party in a matter of seconds. These things would make it quite good.
However there's still the issue of specific job roles. No healer lfp? /disband. No tank? /disband. This is something that will ruin even the best of systems when it comes to partying. And I don't think there's a perfect way around it. SE could make it so jobs roles changed from the normal DD/Tank/Healer archetypes to something different, for example Support/Crowd control. Every job would be able to do damage and heal, but Support would heal a bit better while Crowd control would do a bit more damage. That way we wouldn't be as restricted when making a party; just about anyone could do the job, and even if you got too many support and too little CC, the party could still function effectively. There might be problems in this system though (nobody likes to heal, everyone likes to DD = no healers lfp? etc.) so I don't know if there is even a solution to this...
I do hope that SE has figured it out though. I do think it has to be something revolutionary to work however.
Hardcore is pretty much a thing of the pass I am sorry to say....
I think alot of it has to do with the "Hardcore" crowd being a small % of the playerbase.
I resent this statement cause there are players that love to heal...namely myself! I loved sitting back and playing the Heal-Bot, and letting everyone else do all the fighting for me while I struggled to keep them alive! Believe it or not there is so much more to being a healer than just standing there popping a heal on your party from time to time!
Healing is an insanely exciting Job that I love to do!
Well, let me rephrase - there will be as many healers as before.. and we would have hard time finding them still, even though anyone can do the job
.
LOL Hyanmen wasn't saying anything bad about healers it's just that generally they are harder to find then let's say damage dealers. It depends on the game too, take EQ2 the fury is a healer class but it also has decent dd and is the prime solo class, in short it rains furies....
I also like mutli utility classes myself, while good at one thing they can also pull off other skill if you need them that's in my book a very good idea. But there are some people who really do love the holy trinity too. :P
I think the new system in Ff14 will be more flexible while not totally transforming the usual tank, healer and dd triad. Heh we'll see. :0)
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Key word being "Job". This is why healer classes are the least played in every single game. Instead of playing like a game, it plays like a job. On top of that, everyone blames the healer for failure and rarely ever shows gratitude for a "job" well done. Kind of crappy since they spend most of their play time trying to make yours fun.
Blame the stupid developers that can't look past heal bot mode. God forbid they come up with a system that allows healers to heal while they are actively participating in combat and without having to stare at frakking health bars the entire time. Would it kill a game if all heals were group based, so you don't have to frigging micro manage targeting members? Why can't they attach heals to every attack so that you never have to sit back and stare at health bars while everyone else gets to have fun and actually watch the combat unfold? Even better yet, get rid of dedicated healer classes and let everyone worry about their own health for once.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal