I think you need to be able to jump in a game to interact with the enviroment! What i dont like to see is combat with bunnyhoppers running around all day! i spent 12 months in wow playing in BG's etc and just got sick of it, then i came to DF and at the start all i saw were players bouncing around firing arrows......i couldnt have been happier when they stopped it!
The reason i hate it? it just looks daft! no other reason than it just looks plain silly.
I think most people get mixed up with players not liking the bunnyhopping to jumping. most non jump arguments i have seen are about bunnyhopping and not actual immersive jumping.
Jumping yes we need in 3D games.
Bunnyhopping...go back to the playground it has no place in fantasy mmo's. maybe sci fi with back packs i could see it, but not fantasy.
I like jumping when its used after anticipating someone elses moves (Unreal Tournament as example). I hate jumping if some noob just jumps randomly trying to be less easy to hit (Unreal Tournament as example ). The last one looks retarded when jumping.
Jumping like WoW is about as close as you can get to being a game-breaker, but not actually breaking it for me.
I absolutely despise random jumping around...I would however, love jumping if it was like counter-strike where it slowed you down when you landed for a second, to make jumping slower than actually running.
How often do you jump in real life, when you come to a gate do you jump over it..do you jump over the curb walking across the street?
Go out in your backyard and see if you can jump 5 times while moving forward at the same pace as running, in fact go put 70lbs of armor on (or just a lot of weight in a backpack and see how well you can jump).
I dont mind jumping when you need it, but like my post above, jumping should slow you down, it should only be to get over certain obstacles, no so you can just run around spamming the jump button, that looks so ridiculous, especially in combat.
I think jumping is pretty unnecessary (not to mention unrealistic when an warrior, clad in 80+ pounds of armor, is jumping around like he had too many Red Bulls). However, I wouldn't mind some type of mantle feature like in Call of Duty: World at War. It looks cool, it lets you jump over objects like short walls, fences, etc. without looking ridiculous, and it's fluid with running motion. When you jump, you have to land and it feels kind of awkward, but when you mantle over a fence, you don't miss a step when you land.
Yeah I know, it's weird suggesting a FPS feature in an MMO. But it serves the real purpose of jumping (which should be to jump over objects) while looking cool.
I haven't met too many people who complain about jumping. It's a much bigger problem in aiming games, where, if they jump all the time, it's hard to hit them. The dreaded bunny hopping. Overall, though, in an FPS or an MMO, bunny hoppers are stupid and it just ruins the realistic aspect of the combat.
I think you need to be able to jump in a game to interact with the enviroment! What i dont like to see is combat with bunnyhoppers running around all day! i spent 12 months in wow playing in BG's etc and just got sick of it, then i came to DF and at the start all i saw were players bouncing around firing arrows......i couldnt have been happier when they stopped it! The reason i hate it? it just looks daft! no other reason than it just looks plain silly.
I used to laugh at people in BGs jumping around like crazy but as I started doing more PvP I found that I started doing it as well. When in the middle of a large melee I would often get stuck on obstacles I could not see because of player bodies or AoE graphics. Jumping while moving allowed me to avoid this and smoothed out my movement. It might look silly but it does help.
I think you need to be able to jump in a game to interact with the enviroment! What i dont like to see is combat with bunnyhoppers running around all day! i spent 12 months in wow playing in BG's etc and just got sick of it, then i came to DF and at the start all i saw were players bouncing around firing arrows......i couldnt have been happier when they stopped it! The reason i hate it? it just looks daft! no other reason than it just looks plain silly.
I used to laugh at people in BGs jumping around like crazy but as I started doing more PvP I found that I started doing it as well. When in the middle of a large melee I would often get stuck on obstacles I could not see because of player bodies or AoE graphics. Jumping while moving allowed me to avoid this and smoothed out my movement. It might look silly but it does help.
Yes i see your point there, but thats more of a neccesity, and using it to combat enviroment is diiferent to just jumping non stop in circles around somone. To me that's exploiting a bad combat design. Which is why i aplauded AV for fixing it in DF. Jumping as others have said should be for getting over obstacles and not for confusing pvper's.
Go out in your backyard and see if you can jump 5 times while moving forward at the same pace as running, in fact go put 70lbs of armor on (or just a lot of weight in a backpack and see how well you can jump).
I jump when I shoot my fireballs... IRL.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I think you need to be able to Jump because without it then you feel restricted and you want the freedom to jump onto a box if you want to. You can jump in real life and it is needed so you should be able to in certain games too. However there are games where Jumping doesn't make sense so it isn't there like a Rainbow Six game because in real life you don't jump while shooting.
Go out in your backyard and see if you can jump 5 times while moving forward at the same pace as running, in fact go put 70lbs of armor on (or just a lot of weight in a backpack and see how well you can jump).
I jump when I shoot my fireballs... IRL.
Yeh you can jump easily with alot of weight I mean a fat person can jump and a fat person is basically a thin guy holding a really heavy backpack.
Jumping as a defensive tactic in PvP is probably the most stupid thing I've seen in PC gaming. That is probably the #1 reason that I don't like most multiplayer FPS games.
In a PvE game I do like to jump. Not only jump, but also climbing, hanging from ledges, levitating, flying, swiming, teleporting, transposing, and burrowing. Movement and positioning are underused concepts in MMORPG's. When was the last time you levitated over a spike trap in a MMOG?
Go out in your backyard and see if you can jump 5 times while moving forward at the same pace as running, in fact go put 70lbs of armor on (or just a lot of weight in a backpack and see how well you can jump).
I jump when I shoot my fireballs... IRL.
Yeh you can jump easily with alot of weight I mean a fat person can jump and a fat person is basically a thin guy holding a really heavy backpack.
I also full sprint around the downtown area with plate armor and bottomless back packs.
Jumping as a defensive tactic in PvP is probably the most stupid thing I've seen in PC gaming. That is probably the #1 reason that I don't like most multiplayer FPS games.
In a PvE game I do like to jump. Not only jump, but also climbing, hanging from ledges, levitating, flying, swiming, teleporting, transposing, and burrowing. Movement and positioning are underused concepts in MMORPG's. When was the last time you levitated over a spike trap in a MMOG?
You can swing over spike traps in some Runescape quests. Not levitate, but pretty close.
It's a big immersion breaker to play a character who can dispatch evil monsters with ease, but when confronted with a 2-foot ledge that you could hop down in real life the character can't do it. So it's not "jumping" specifically, but that players expect to be able to at least do the stuff they can do in real life. Is this a harsh demand? Not really -- I can climb up onto a ledge in real life, but don't demand every game lets me scale terrain that way (but I'm pleasantly surprised by the ones that do). But at least the basics of letting you hop down 2 feet is pretty damn important. Because while it wasn't the reason I stopped playing Guild Wars, it also wasn't helping GW's case either.
This is exactly how I feel. I normally don't worry much about immersion breaking, but in a game with avatars (no jumping in EVE, yet) it is really important that I can jump off a hill or cliff, or over a fence or log. (or up just to shoot)
It really makes the whole game for me and when I can't do it. (GW's, Lineage 2) it just ruins it for me.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Jumping is annoying and painful to watch. Log in to any MMO and one can quickly identify the ADHD kiddies by their non stop jumping. The kiddies simply have no patience and cannot sit still. I would love to see a no jumping server as it would remove a good deal of the kiddies. The only flaw with this idea is most of these kiddies do not have the patience to read and likely would not understand the difference in servers.
I hate it personally, it's just unrealistic/stupid to be able to jump fences and get to tops of buildings when your character is decked out in weapons, armor, and bags of potions/items/loot. If your say a rogue or maybe a mage or some kind of acrobatic class then fine, but otherwise I thinks its pretty dumb.
Those same toons are able to swing 6ft long swords/axes/hammer with supernatural speed and accelaration using only 1 hand and without pause or dislocating their shoulder. They can run endlessly without the need to stop to catch breath. Cant really compare their physical abilities with reality
One of the biggest aspects of MMOs is the ability to explore the land and see what there is to see. I would climb to the top of a mountain in VG and just watch the trees blow in the wind and it made me happy. I watched boats go into ports and then take off again and it made me feel some immersion.
GW I walk up to a ledge and I cannot cross it, jump on it, or do anything but stay on the path. Did I hate GW? No, I played a few guys through the story and had a good time, but it didn't feel like an MMO either (probably because it's not ). It kills all immersion, it ruins the game for people who like to explore, and frankly it is just plain lazy programming. It is easy to code a game when you only have to account for the path you force the explorer down instead of the whole world.
MMOs should immerse you into their world and let you do what you want. If my character can kill a dragon, he better be able to jump up a hill.
I agree jumping around like an ape while PvPing is a dumb tactic. Not saying it doesnt work but perhaps games should impliment something like DDO where you hold shift and then hit your direction keys and do back rolls or side rolls to dodge people in PvP. I think what most people in this thread are trying to say is they love interacting with the evirionment like DDO does so well but you hate the idea of jumping around like a dumbass in PvP. If you have ever read a fantasy book you know that isnt exactly a widely used tactic in fighting :P do that in front of Conan or Artemis Entreri and...well you will die a lot quicker than you would standing still :P.
For me, I'll only say that Jumping is not a game maker or breaker. I've played games where you can jump, and that's fine; I just keep a thumb on the space bar. i've also played games where you can't jump, and that's fine by me too; my thumb usually rests on the space-bar either way. I'm asking because I honestly don't understand why this seems to be a very important issue for some people. I've heard people say " I tried game x for 10 minutes and when I found out I couldn't jump, I QUIT". I've also heard people say "I played game x for 10 minutes and all i saw were people hopping arounnd like idiots.. So I QUIT". I'm just curious why this aspect of the game is so important for some people for good or bad, and maybe what makes Jumping more important than something like skill balance, community, gameplay, or story for example. What makes it more important than any other aspect of gameplay for that matter? How does it rank for you? Is Jumping still an issue for some people?
I want total freedom of movement with my character, so YEs that includes jumping, unfortunaly when looking at MMORPG, then looking at singleplayer games, MMORPG leap years behind in terms of what your character can do.
I will admit it was a joy to be able to climb in AoC and I know for example D&DO also has some climbing, but it's still very VERY limited.
In WOW I loved character movement as your character felt like really touching ground, this could be while running this could be due to a jump. And sure I might have had times I jumped for now reason what so ever.
But also like my character movement to have meaning and like my example of WOW it had meaning as it meant more feel towards my character. (overall not a hughe WOW fan and havn't played the game for I think almost 2 years now and at the time I played it was some time in CB/OB and from release with off/on's ont even a year, did even buy BC, but after 2 day's of not even a few hours I stopped playing, while I apriciatte it for being a awesome game it never tikkled my MMORPG senses, and I was and still am missing that feel.
Anyway the more restricted I am as a character in a game world the less immersive it feels to me
Where jumping is necessary to the game mechanic, I've got no problem with it, if it's purely decorative and you'll never have to jump over anything while running across the countryside, it's a waste. I want function over form in my games, I want most moves to be worthwhile in actual game terms. That said, when you're sitting around doing nothing, waiting for something to happen, being able to dance or whateever can be fun once in a while, I've gotten an entire group of about 30 individuals doing the Chicken Dance at the same time and it's hysterical.
I think in any game with jumping there should be stamina to account for it, or a slowdown shortly after jumping. Just makes sense to me. Try jumping down the hallway vs. running or walking then imagine swinging a sword. There was a game where you slowed down after jumping.. can't remember what game or even if it was an MMO.. Maybe CoD, but it was a great system.
Comments
I think you need to be able to jump in a game to interact with the enviroment! What i dont like to see is combat with bunnyhoppers running around all day! i spent 12 months in wow playing in BG's etc and just got sick of it, then i came to DF and at the start all i saw were players bouncing around firing arrows......i couldnt have been happier when they stopped it!
The reason i hate it? it just looks daft! no other reason than it just looks plain silly.
I just can't stand being glued to the ground, sliding up and down hills, and I don't understand how can anyone accept that in a 3D game.
I think most people get mixed up with players not liking the bunnyhopping to jumping. most non jump arguments i have seen are about bunnyhopping and not actual immersive jumping.
Jumping yes we need in 3D games.
Bunnyhopping...go back to the playground it has no place in fantasy mmo's. maybe sci fi with back packs i could see it, but not fantasy.
I like jumping when its used after anticipating someone elses moves (Unreal Tournament as example). I hate jumping if some noob just jumps randomly trying to be less easy to hit (Unreal Tournament as example
). The last one looks retarded when jumping.
Jumping like WoW is about as close as you can get to being a game-breaker, but not actually breaking it for me.
I absolutely despise random jumping around...I would however, love jumping if it was like counter-strike where it slowed you down when you landed for a second, to make jumping slower than actually running.
How often do you jump in real life, when you come to a gate do you jump over it..do you jump over the curb walking across the street?
Go out in your backyard and see if you can jump 5 times while moving forward at the same pace as running, in fact go put 70lbs of armor on (or just a lot of weight in a backpack and see how well you can jump).
I dont mind jumping when you need it, but like my post above, jumping should slow you down, it should only be to get over certain obstacles, no so you can just run around spamming the jump button, that looks so ridiculous, especially in combat.
I think jumping is pretty unnecessary (not to mention unrealistic when an warrior, clad in 80+ pounds of armor, is jumping around like he had too many Red Bulls). However, I wouldn't mind some type of mantle feature like in Call of Duty: World at War. It looks cool, it lets you jump over objects like short walls, fences, etc. without looking ridiculous, and it's fluid with running motion. When you jump, you have to land and it feels kind of awkward, but when you mantle over a fence, you don't miss a step when you land.
Yeah I know, it's weird suggesting a FPS feature in an MMO. But it serves the real purpose of jumping (which should be to jump over objects) while looking cool.
I haven't met too many people who complain about jumping. It's a much bigger problem in aiming games, where, if they jump all the time, it's hard to hit them. The dreaded bunny hopping. Overall, though, in an FPS or an MMO, bunny hoppers are stupid and it just ruins the realistic aspect of the combat.
Just my two cents.
Also, I agree with Calind0r above.
I used to laugh at people in BGs jumping around like crazy but as I started doing more PvP I found that I started doing it as well. When in the middle of a large melee I would often get stuck on obstacles I could not see because of player bodies or AoE graphics. Jumping while moving allowed me to avoid this and smoothed out my movement. It might look silly but it does help.
I used to laugh at people in BGs jumping around like crazy but as I started doing more PvP I found that I started doing it as well. When in the middle of a large melee I would often get stuck on obstacles I could not see because of player bodies or AoE graphics. Jumping while moving allowed me to avoid this and smoothed out my movement. It might look silly but it does help.
Yes i see your point there, but thats more of a neccesity, and using it to combat enviroment is diiferent to just jumping non stop in circles around somone. To me that's exploiting a bad combat design. Which is why i aplauded AV for fixing it in DF. Jumping as others have said should be for getting over obstacles and not for confusing pvper's.
I jump when I shoot my fireballs... IRL.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I think you need to be able to Jump because without it then you feel restricted and you want the freedom to jump onto a box if you want to. You can jump in real life and it is needed so you should be able to in certain games too. However there are games where Jumping doesn't make sense so it isn't there like a Rainbow Six game because in real life you don't jump while shooting.
I jump when I shoot my fireballs... IRL.
Yeh you can jump easily with alot of weight I mean a fat person can jump and a fat person is basically a thin guy holding a really heavy backpack.
Jumping as a defensive tactic in PvP is probably the most stupid thing I've seen in PC gaming. That is probably the #1 reason that I don't like most multiplayer FPS games.
In a PvE game I do like to jump. Not only jump, but also climbing, hanging from ledges, levitating, flying, swiming, teleporting, transposing, and burrowing. Movement and positioning are underused concepts in MMORPG's. When was the last time you levitated over a spike trap in a MMOG?
I jump when I shoot my fireballs... IRL.
Yeh you can jump easily with alot of weight I mean a fat person can jump and a fat person is basically a thin guy holding a really heavy backpack.
I also full sprint around the downtown area with plate armor and bottomless back packs.
You can swing over spike traps in some Runescape quests. Not levitate, but pretty close.
This is exactly how I feel. I normally don't worry much about immersion breaking, but in a game with avatars (no jumping in EVE, yet) it is really important that I can jump off a hill or cliff, or over a fence or log. (or up just to shoot)
It really makes the whole game for me and when I can't do it. (GW's, Lineage 2) it just ruins it for me.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Jumping is a must, but I doubt I will quit a game based on a lack of jumping alone. I also like to see the ability to ascend or descend obsticles.
Jumping is annoying and painful to watch. Log in to any MMO and one can quickly identify the ADHD kiddies by their non stop jumping. The kiddies simply have no patience and cannot sit still. I would love to see a no jumping server as it would remove a good deal of the kiddies. The only flaw with this idea is most of these kiddies do not have the patience to read and likely would not understand the difference in servers.
Jumping is usefull and needed but it needs to be implemented with a system that prevents bunny hopping.
Those same toons are able to swing 6ft long swords/axes/hammer with supernatural speed and accelaration using only 1 hand and without pause or dislocating their shoulder. They can run endlessly without the need to stop to catch breath. Cant really compare their physical abilities with reality
One of the biggest aspects of MMOs is the ability to explore the land and see what there is to see. I would climb to the top of a mountain in VG and just watch the trees blow in the wind and it made me happy. I watched boats go into ports and then take off again and it made me feel some immersion.
GW I walk up to a ledge and I cannot cross it, jump on it, or do anything but stay on the path. Did I hate GW? No, I played a few guys through the story and had a good time, but it didn't feel like an MMO either (probably because it's not
). It kills all immersion, it ruins the game for people who like to explore, and frankly it is just plain lazy programming. It is easy to code a game when you only have to account for the path you force the explorer down instead of the whole world.
MMOs should immerse you into their world and let you do what you want. If my character can kill a dragon, he better be able to jump up a hill.
I agree jumping around like an ape while PvPing is a dumb tactic. Not saying it doesnt work but perhaps games should impliment something like DDO where you hold shift and then hit your direction keys and do back rolls or side rolls to dodge people in PvP. I think what most people in this thread are trying to say is they love interacting with the evirionment like DDO does so well but you hate the idea of jumping around like a dumbass in PvP. If you have ever read a fantasy book you know that isnt exactly a widely used tactic in fighting :P do that in front of Conan or Artemis Entreri and...well you will die a lot quicker than you would standing still :P.
I want total freedom of movement with my character, so YEs that includes jumping, unfortunaly when looking at MMORPG, then looking at singleplayer games, MMORPG leap years behind in terms of what your character can do.
I will admit it was a joy to be able to climb in AoC and I know for example D&DO also has some climbing, but it's still very VERY limited.
In WOW I loved character movement as your character felt like really touching ground, this could be while running this could be due to a jump. And sure I might have had times I jumped for now reason what so ever.
But also like my character movement to have meaning and like my example of WOW it had meaning as it meant more feel towards my character. (overall not a hughe WOW fan and havn't played the game for I think almost 2 years now and at the time I played it was some time in CB/OB and from release with off/on's ont even a year, did even buy BC, but after 2 day's of not even a few hours I stopped playing, while I apriciatte it for being a awesome game it never tikkled my MMORPG senses, and I was and still am missing that feel.
Anyway the more restricted I am as a character in a game world the less immersive it feels to me
Where jumping is necessary to the game mechanic, I've got no problem with it, if it's purely decorative and you'll never have to jump over anything while running across the countryside, it's a waste. I want function over form in my games, I want most moves to be worthwhile in actual game terms. That said, when you're sitting around doing nothing, waiting for something to happen, being able to dance or whateever can be fun once in a while, I've gotten an entire group of about 30 individuals doing the Chicken Dance at the same time and it's hysterical.
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I think in any game with jumping there should be stamina to account for it, or a slowdown shortly after jumping. Just makes sense to me. Try jumping down the hallway vs. running or walking then imagine swinging a sword. There was a game where you slowed down after jumping.. can't remember what game or even if it was an MMO.. Maybe CoD, but it was a great system.