There have been no navel battles of note in DF. At most its been one clan or alliance attacking a city with a ship, or losing a ship or two at most while attacking a city, usually to exploits or bad judgement, as players can swim faster then a ship can sail.
I was involved in numerous raft chases, which is the only "ship" faster then players swimming. Most were pretty fun, but it was usually 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 or something. As far as i know there has never been a large naval battle and most likely wont ever be one due to game mechanics, and resource costs to build ships.
To build ships requires a shipyard, which requires a harbor, to get both those buildings you have to build other buildings in a city. the harbor/shipyard take something like 350 building modules or more possibly, i dont really remember exactly but i know at the time it was a ton of stone/gold/wood/iron. 1 building module is 50 stone, 20 wood, 20 iron ingots, 250 gold.
Then to build ships you need ship modules which are 400 gold, 200 wood, 40 iron ingots, 50 cloth. the lowest level ship requires 15 modules and the highest requires 1000, as well as an astrolabe. astrolabes are rare drop items from mid to high level treasure chests, which the keys to open are a rare drop already, which means your in an arms race not only for resources but to exploit mid or high level mobs to get keys to get a chance at an astrolabe.
The end result, is that ships are non existant for the general playerbase or small clans, unless they want to dump money just for kicks. i know of 1 small clan that built a sloop, the lowest level ship. The guilds or alliances who did build ships basically exploited mobs to get keys, to get the rare drop item, and pumped a metric shiton of resources into buildings just to build a ship, only to lose it to a hacker, or to a zerg of swimmers with stamina potions and resin. So Massive Naval Battles will never happen under the current game mechanics, just like with most items/equipment/buildings the resource costs are so absurd as to eliminate the possibility of it happening anytime soon. The progression might happen in 6 months to a year, once people have built up stockpiles of resources, if the game survives. However i really doubt we will ever see a large scale ship battle as the ocean has minimal to litlte value currently. The only use for ships is to attack a player city, and in most cases its much more effective to attack with land based forces.
I saw a naval battle the other night, maybe a handful of ships not the big,big ones though. I ran from it as you may imagine because i didn't want them to steal my fish . But yea, there are boats in the game, and if you play, you see them and yes they do battle each other, so there...you know. "Large" is in the eye of the beholder. OP can rest assured.
So how about making a video of one. Some of us would like to see a naval battle. So far all I have seen is boats flying or shooting at the land.
So, if the game doesnt have a video of ships shooting each other then the game has failed?
I have a feeling you got confused with games. Pirates of the Burning Sea MMO is all about ship combat, go ask them for a video, if they cant provide you with that then your complaining is fully justified. But DF is not a naval simulator.
I would say people have already defined DF as a failure for myriad other cited and supported reasons... at least in terms of what it is, versus what it was hyped to be by Tasos and co. A lack of massive naval battles may be just one more to add to the list.
As for your arguing that it's not a naval simulator... No, it isn't. However, that's also a disingenuous way to characterize the question.
Massive naval battles were one of the boasted features of DF going back many months. It's a feature that some fans in the past have cited as a "revolutionary" feature that places DF ahead of other PvP MMOs.
Yet, no one's posted a single vid of any such event happening yet...
Then, when someone questions the lack of naval battles, certain folks immediately do the classic "Darkfall Two-Step" and start arguing the other side. On a dime, they go from citing Naval Battles as a revolutionary feature making DF superior to other MMOs, to downplaying it as something unimportant because DF isn't a naval simulator. I'm sure at least one or two here would swiftly re-categorize it as "fluff that isn't necessary" to that end as well.
It's right up there with all the claims that DF would revolutionize MMORPGs and change people's expectations of what MMO should deliver... Only to do the Darkfall Two-Step when the game failed to deliver on much of its hyped revolutionary features. Their response then changed to, "well, AV is just an indie team. It's unfair to have such unrealistic expectations of them".
Rabid Darkfall Fans... forever arguing all sides of a situation.
Spot on as usual Mike.
For some of the newcomers to this sub-section of mmorpg.com I suppose they probably aren't aware of the lengthy discussions we had prior to DarkFall's release. They probably aren't aware that some of us DID NOT buy into the hype that Tasos and the ardent supporters were selling.
As each month goes by since DarkFall's release it becomes more and more obvious why the vocal, mega-hype supporters are becoming more and more scarce. (Well, scarce with their same accounts that they used back in Nov./Dec. anyway).
Perhaps one of them can point to a single issue that was raised before Release where they indeed turned out to be correct... I can't think of even one.
On the other hand... those of us who questioned the hype, and the PR spin that Tasos liked to fling around... I think we're batting pretty close to 1000.
For DarkFall's sake I'd like to hope that Aventurine is starting to realize that Tasos' leadership is sinking them fast. If they throw him overboard they may still have time to right the ship that is DarkFall.
There have been no navel battles of note in DF. At most its been one clan or alliance attacking a city with a ship, or losing a ship or two at most while attacking a city, usually to exploits or bad judgement, as players can swim faster then a ship can sail. I was involved in numerous raft chases, which is the only "ship" faster then players swimming. Most were pretty fun, but it was usually 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 or something. As far as i know there has never been a large naval battle and most likely wont ever be one due to game mechanics, and resource costs to build ships. To build ships requires a shipyard, which requires a harbor, to get both those buildings you have to build other buildings in a city. the harbor/shipyard take something like 350 building modules or more possibly, i dont really remember exactly but i know at the time it was a ton of stone/gold/wood/iron. 1 building module is 50 stone, 20 wood, 20 iron ingots, 250 gold. Then to build ships you need ship modules which are 400 gold, 200 wood, 40 iron ingots, 50 cloth. the lowest level ship requires 15 modules and the highest requires 1000, as well as an astrolabe. astrolabes are rare drop items from mid to high level treasure chests, which the keys to open are a rare drop already, which means your in an arms race not only for resources but to exploit mid or high level mobs to get keys to get a chance at an astrolabe. The end result, is that ships are non existant for the general playerbase or small clans, unless they want to dump money just for kicks. i know of 1 small clan that built a sloop, the lowest level ship. The guilds or alliances who did build ships basically exploited mobs to get keys, to get the rare drop item, and pumped a metric shiton of resources into buildings just to build a ship, only to lose it to a hacker, or to a zerg of swimmers with stamina potions and resin. So Massive Naval Battles will never happen under the current game mechanics, just like with most items/equipment/buildings the resource costs are so absurd as to eliminate the possibility of it happening anytime soon. The progression might happen in 6 months to a year, once people have built up stockpiles of resources, if the game survives. However i really doubt we will ever see a large scale ship battle as the ocean has minimal to litlte value currently. The only use for ships is to attack a player city, and in most cases its much more effective to attack with land based forces.
Well said, and I agree.
Which was my main criticism of Aventurine's "method" of Beta-testing back when the official Beta was on-going. They are now finding out all this stuff in the current paid Beta.
If Aventurine wants to save DarkFall they should do what the developers of WW2: Online did back when it was released. Suspend monthly subscription payments for a few months, or give a credit for 3 months worth of subscriptions. That way, they will be able to at least salvage the few remaining subscribers they have left.
Once they get all these building resources requirements tweaked, and the game mechanics successfully working, as well as the other main issues resolved; then they could resume normal subscription billing.
Oh well, I'm sure Tasos thinks everything is sailing along smoothly. He will say they are doing even better than expected. And of course... everything that Tasos says is 100% true.
There have been no navel battles of note in DF. At most its been one clan or alliance attacking a city with a ship, or losing a ship or two at most while attacking a city, usually to exploits or bad judgement, as players can swim faster then a ship can sail. I was involved in numerous raft chases, which is the only "ship" faster then players swimming. Most were pretty fun, but it was usually 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 or something. As far as i know there has never been a large naval battle and most likely wont ever be one due to game mechanics, and resource costs to build ships. To build ships requires a shipyard, which requires a harbor, to get both those buildings you have to build other buildings in a city. the harbor/shipyard take something like 350 building modules or more possibly, i dont really remember exactly but i know at the time it was a ton of stone/gold/wood/iron. 1 building module is 50 stone, 20 wood, 20 iron ingots, 250 gold. Then to build ships you need ship modules which are 400 gold, 200 wood, 40 iron ingots, 50 cloth. the lowest level ship requires 15 modules and the highest requires 1000, as well as an astrolabe. astrolabes are rare drop items from mid to high level treasure chests, which the keys to open are a rare drop already, which means your in an arms race not only for resources but to exploit mid or high level mobs to get keys to get a chance at an astrolabe. The end result, is that ships are non existant for the general playerbase or small clans, unless they want to dump money just for kicks. i know of 1 small clan that built a sloop, the lowest level ship. The guilds or alliances who did build ships basically exploited mobs to get keys, to get the rare drop item, and pumped a metric shiton of resources into buildings just to build a ship, only to lose it to a hacker, or to a zerg of swimmers with stamina potions and resin. So Massive Naval Battles will never happen under the current game mechanics, just like with most items/equipment/buildings the resource costs are so absurd as to eliminate the possibility of it happening anytime soon. The progression might happen in 6 months to a year, once people have built up stockpiles of resources, if the game survives. However i really doubt we will ever see a large scale ship battle as the ocean has minimal to litlte value currently. The only use for ships is to attack a player city, and in most cases its much more effective to attack with land based forces.
Well said, and I agree.
Which was my main criticism of Aventurine's "method" of Beta-testing back when the official Beta was on-going. They are now finding out all this stuff in the current paid Beta.
If Aventurine wants to save DarkFall they should do what the developers of WW2: Online did back when it was released. Suspend monthly subscription payments for a few months, or give a credit for 3 months worth of subscriptions. That way, they will be able to at least salvage the few remaining subscribers they have left.
Once they get all these building resources requirements tweaked, and the game mechanics successfully working, as well as the other main issues resolved; then they could resume normal subscription billing.
Oh well, I'm sure Tasos thinks everything is sailing along smoothly. He will say they are doing even better than expected. And of course... everything that Tasos says is 100% true.
I have been playing WW2 Online since its release. Its a bad example to use, appart from CRS and Aventurine being small dev teams, their games upon release where in completely different states. WW2 online was released in alfa state (as admited by CRS themselfs), it was so bad that some guns actually shot backwards, there was no scoring system what so ever so "kills" had no impact on anything at all. That is why CRS gave months free play. DF on the other hand is in beta state, yes. BUT all of the MMOs these days come out like that unforutnetely. Even the almighty WoW was crap and unstable and EVE, the same, just to name a few.
There have been no navel battles of note in DF. At most its been one clan or alliance attacking a city with a ship, or losing a ship or two at most while attacking a city, usually to exploits or bad judgement, as players can swim faster then a ship can sail. I was involved in numerous raft chases, which is the only "ship" faster then players swimming. Most were pretty fun, but it was usually 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 or something. As far as i know there has never been a large naval battle and most likely wont ever be one due to game mechanics, and resource costs to build ships. To build ships requires a shipyard, which requires a harbor, to get both those buildings you have to build other buildings in a city. the harbor/shipyard take something like 350 building modules or more possibly, i dont really remember exactly but i know at the time it was a ton of stone/gold/wood/iron. 1 building module is 50 stone, 20 wood, 20 iron ingots, 250 gold. Then to build ships you need ship modules which are 400 gold, 200 wood, 40 iron ingots, 50 cloth. the lowest level ship requires 15 modules and the highest requires 1000, as well as an astrolabe. astrolabes are rare drop items from mid to high level treasure chests, which the keys to open are a rare drop already, which means your in an arms race not only for resources but to exploit mid or high level mobs to get keys to get a chance at an astrolabe. The end result, is that ships are non existant for the general playerbase or small clans, unless they want to dump money just for kicks. i know of 1 small clan that built a sloop, the lowest level ship. The guilds or alliances who did build ships basically exploited mobs to get keys, to get the rare drop item, and pumped a metric shiton of resources into buildings just to build a ship, only to lose it to a hacker, or to a zerg of swimmers with stamina potions and resin. So Massive Naval Battles will never happen under the current game mechanics, just like with most items/equipment/buildings the resource costs are so absurd as to eliminate the possibility of it happening anytime soon. The progression might happen in 6 months to a year, once people have built up stockpiles of resources, if the game survives. However i really doubt we will ever see a large scale ship battle as the ocean has minimal to litlte value currently. The only use for ships is to attack a player city, and in most cases its much more effective to attack with land based forces.
Well said, and I agree.
Which was my main criticism of Aventurine's "method" of Beta-testing back when the official Beta was on-going. They are now finding out all this stuff in the current paid Beta.
If Aventurine wants to save DarkFall they should do what the developers of WW2: Online did back when it was released. Suspend monthly subscription payments for a few months, or give a credit for 3 months worth of subscriptions. That way, they will be able to at least salvage the few remaining subscribers they have left.
Once they get all these building resources requirements tweaked, and the game mechanics successfully working, as well as the other main issues resolved; then they could resume normal subscription billing.
Oh well, I'm sure Tasos thinks everything is sailing along smoothly. He will say they are doing even better than expected. And of course... everything that Tasos says is 100% true.
I have been playing WW2 Online since its release. Its a bad example to use, appart from CRS and Aventurine being small dev teams, their games upon release where in completely different states. WW2 online was released in alfa state (as admited by CRS themselfs), it was so bad that some guns actually shot backwards, there was no scoring system what so ever so "kills" had no impact on anything at all. That is why CRS gave months free play. DF on the other hand is in beta state, yes. BUT all of the MMOs these days come out like that unforutnetely. Even the almighty WoW was crap and unstable and EVE, the same, just to name a few.
Freerealms released just a couple of month ago and it was an extremely polished and complete game when it came out.
Not every MMO releases like DFO. In fact, a LOT do not.
LoTRO was a pretty polished game on release.
WAR had a good release. Other problems aside it def. wasn't lacking in gameplay or features.
TCoSB had a good launch.
AoC was in a better state then DFO. I'm aware of the problems the game had, I played at launch, but it wasn't a beta state.
So no, your assemsment that ALL MMO's release in a beta state is wrong.
That's just an excuse that people use when the game they like releases in a beta state.
At most its been one clan or alliance attacking a city with a ship, or losing a ship or two at most while attacking a city, usually to exploits or bad judgement, as players can swim faster then a ship can sail. The guilds or alliances who did build ships basically exploited mobs to get keys, to get the rare drop item, and pumped a metric shiton of resources into buildings just to build a ship, only to lose it to a hacker, or to a zerg of swimmers with stamina potions and resin.
Yes but you are missing one small point. People love to make negative posts re "OMGZ I QUIT!" people who dont make posts such as "I DONT QUIT!" unless its to annoy particular poster. So the perception that everybody is leaving is wrong, people quit MMOs all the time, you just need to know MMO life cycles to understand user numbers and explanations for them.Also Devs dont bother with "General discussion" section of the forums for obvious reasons, they stick to suggestion section and dot forget they ahve their own mind made up on how to develop their own game, so they dont follow players advice 100%. Oh and about naval battles, I would imagine they happen at sea some place? since i havent bothered to even go out to sea in a raft I dont know. Besides its not a naval simulator, if it was then i would understand you but its not the main focus of the game, so whats this fuss about naval battles? Even If clans worked out that building fleets is not that viable then whats wrong with that?
I think you are missing the over-all point.
Darkfall is only 4 months old and has an extremely high turn over rate. This is not good when you have a limited fanbase.
Darkfall doesn't have 50k people wanting to play it.. it has roughly 10k. Of whats left of the original fanbase, Aventurien IS having a tough time keeping this game a float. They simply cannot continue on this path for much longer with only 6k ~ 8k subscribers. As they will have to file for bankruptcy soon.
The game is a huge flop, as it provides no gameplay except dumbed down knife fighting, aka 7 years ago.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
Yes but you are missing one small point. People love to make negative posts re "OMGZ I QUIT!" people who dont make posts such as "I DONT QUIT!" unless its to annoy particular poster. So the perception that everybody is leaving is wrong, people quit MMOs all the time, you just need to know MMO life cycles to understand user numbers and explanations for them.Also Devs dont bother with "General discussion" section of the forums for obvious reasons, they stick to suggestion section and dot forget they ahve their own mind made up on how to develop their own game, so they dont follow players advice 100%. Oh and about naval battles, I would imagine they happen at sea some place? since i havent bothered to even go out to sea in a raft I dont know. Besides its not a naval simulator, if it was then i would understand you but its not the main focus of the game, so whats this fuss about naval battles? Even If clans worked out that building fleets is not that viable then whats wrong with that?
I think you are missing the over-all point.
Darkfall is only 4 months old and has an extremely high turn over rate. This is not good when you have a limited fanbase.
Darkfall doesn't have 50k people wanting to play it.. it has roughly 10k. Of whats left of the original fanbase, Aventurien IS having a tough time keeping this game a float. They simply cannot continue on this path for much longer with only 6k ~ 8k subscribers. As they will have to file for bankruptcy soon.
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
Yes but you are missing one small point. People love to make negative posts re "OMGZ I QUIT!" people who dont make posts such as "I DONT QUIT!" unless its to annoy particular poster. So the perception that everybody is leaving is wrong, people quit MMOs all the time, you just need to know MMO life cycles to understand user numbers and explanations for them.Also Devs dont bother with "General discussion" section of the forums for obvious reasons, they stick to suggestion section and dot forget they ahve their own mind made up on how to develop their own game, so they dont follow players advice 100%. Oh and about naval battles, I would imagine they happen at sea some place? since i havent bothered to even go out to sea in a raft I dont know. Besides its not a naval simulator, if it was then i would understand you but its not the main focus of the game, so whats this fuss about naval battles? Even If clans worked out that building fleets is not that viable then whats wrong with that?
I think you are missing the over-all point.
Darkfall is only 4 months old and has an extremely high turn over rate. This is not good when you have a limited fanbase.
Darkfall doesn't have 50k people wanting to play it.. it has roughly 10k. Of whats left of the original fanbase, Aventurien IS having a tough time keeping this game a float. They simply cannot continue on this path for much longer with only 6k ~ 8k subscribers. As they will have to file for bankruptcy soon.
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
WHAT? Please name one mmo that you have to buy and has a monthly subscription with only 1,000 players and is still running.
Aventurine has to pay off at least a 10 million dollar loan, Do you honestly think that having only 1,000 to 10,000 max subscriber base is going to support this?
Yes but you are missing one small point. People love to make negative posts re "OMGZ I QUIT!" people who dont make posts such as "I DONT QUIT!" unless its to annoy particular poster. So the perception that everybody is leaving is wrong, people quit MMOs all the time, you just need to know MMO life cycles to understand user numbers and explanations for them.Also Devs dont bother with "General discussion" section of the forums for obvious reasons, they stick to suggestion section and dot forget they ahve their own mind made up on how to develop their own game, so they dont follow players advice 100%. Oh and about naval battles, I would imagine they happen at sea some place? since i havent bothered to even go out to sea in a raft I dont know. Besides its not a naval simulator, if it was then i would understand you but its not the main focus of the game, so whats this fuss about naval battles? Even If clans worked out that building fleets is not that viable then whats wrong with that?
I think you are missing the over-all point.
Darkfall is only 4 months old and has an extremely high turn over rate. This is not good when you have a limited fanbase.
Darkfall doesn't have 50k people wanting to play it.. it has roughly 10k. Of whats left of the original fanbase, Aventurien IS having a tough time keeping this game a float. They simply cannot continue on this path for much longer with only 6k ~ 8k subscribers. As they will have to file for bankruptcy soon.
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
WHAT? Please name one mmo that you have to buy and has a monthly subscription with only 1,000 players and is still running.
Aventurine has to pay off at least a 10 million dollar loan, Do you honestly think that having only 1,000 to 10,000 max subscriber base is going to support this?
Yes, I'd also be interested to see what the pay off on a 10 million dollar loan would be at their low subscriber numbers!
I'm sure that the "investors" will be wildly enthusiastic about a pennies on the dollar pay off while the game inches along at a snail's pace.......great business model, you betcha!
Then to build ships you need ship modules which are 400 gold, 200 wood, 40 iron ingots, 50 cloth. the lowest level ship requires 15 modules and the highest requires 1000, as well as an astrolabe. astrolabes are rare drop items from mid to high level treasure chests, which the keys to open are a rare drop already, which means your in an arms race not only for resources but to exploit mid or high level mobs to get keys to get a chance at an astrolabe.
There have never been a naval battle in Darkfall, and in it`s current state it will never be a naval battle...ever. The reason is simple as Aedn points out, the huge grind in everything Darkfall have to offer.
Shipbuilding Skill Level 1
Ship 1: 15 modules, 1 astrolabe
Shipbuilding Skill Level 25
Ship 4: 30 modules, 1 astrolabe
Shipbuilding Skill Level 50
Ship 5: 50 modules, 1 astrolabe
Ship 6: 65 modules, 1 astrolabe
Ship 7: 90 modules, 1 astrolabe
Shipbuilding Skill Level 75:
Warship 1: 250 modules, 1 astrolabe mariners
Warship 2: 300 modules, 1 astrolabe mariners
Shipbuilding Skill Level 100:
Warship 3: 375 modules, 1 astrolabe mariners
Warship 4: 1000 modules, 3 astrolabe mariners
Just look at the amount of grinding you have to do just to build a ship. And this is not some easy EVE ship, because we don`t have insurance in Darkfall. The same is with the landbased Warhulks, you will never see a battle where one can risk losing one of those. The grind to get a ship is so huge, those who have build one make a youtube video to show off.
Just another thing Aventurine fcuked up with useless grinding.
I left before seeing anything bigger than a raft unfortunately.
I just wanted to comment on previous posts about naval warfare not being central to the game.
Not only is it a stated feature, but pretty important to island based clans. It is utterly ridiculous to watch thousands of players swimming the sea to get to another persons city.
I was also told PvE wasn't central to the game, so I shouldn't complain that it also pretty flawed.
I think Darkfall should let itself be bought by SoE. They did wonders for Vanguard, who also promised lots of things..
Yes but you are missing one small point. People love to make negative posts re "OMGZ I QUIT!" people who dont make posts such as "I DONT QUIT!" unless its to annoy particular poster. So the perception that everybody is leaving is wrong, people quit MMOs all the time, you just need to know MMO life cycles to understand user numbers and explanations for them.Also Devs dont bother with "General discussion" section of the forums for obvious reasons, they stick to suggestion section and dot forget they ahve their own mind made up on how to develop their own game, so they dont follow players advice 100%. Oh and about naval battles, I would imagine they happen at sea some place? since i havent bothered to even go out to sea in a raft I dont know. Besides its not a naval simulator, if it was then i would understand you but its not the main focus of the game, so whats this fuss about naval battles? Even If clans worked out that building fleets is not that viable then whats wrong with that?
I think you are missing the over-all point.
Darkfall is only 4 months old and has an extremely high turn over rate. This is not good when you have a limited fanbase.
Darkfall doesn't have 50k people wanting to play it.. it has roughly 10k. Of whats left of the original fanbase, Aventurien IS having a tough time keeping this game a float. They simply cannot continue on this path for much longer with only 6k ~ 8k subscribers. As they will have to file for bankruptcy soon.
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
... and the bar just keeps getting lower.
How far this game has fallen from the bold claims of its most passionate fans as being "revolutionary" and "genre changing" only some months ago.
Once upon a time, there were people who claimed DF would have Blizzard concerned about losing subscriptions (which was absurd even then, but still...). Only a couple months ago, rabid fans were gloating daily about how there was a line to play the game because AV simply couldn't support the "100s of thousands of people" falling over each other for a chance to play...
Now we're down to referring to "MMOs" with less than 1,000 people and merely "staying afloat" as a defense of Darkfall's long-term viability.
So, so sad.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I think you are missing the over-all point. Darkfall is only 4 months old and has an extremely high turn over rate. This is not good when you have a limited fanbase. Darkfall doesn't have 50k people wanting to play it.. it has roughly 10k. Of whats left of the original fanbase, Aventurien IS having a tough time keeping this game a float. They simply cannot continue on this path for much longer with only 6k ~ 8k subscribers. As they will have to file for bankruptcy soon.
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
Umm...
Pot meet kettle.
I too would be interested in this list of "Many MMOs" with less than 1,000 active subs. Since there are many it shouldn't be hard to come up with just a few.
I left before seeing anything bigger than a raft unfortunately. I just wanted to comment on previous posts about naval warfare not being central to the game. Not only is it a stated feature, but pretty important to island based clans. It is utterly ridiculous to watch thousands of players swimming the sea to get to another persons city. I was also told PvE wasn't central to the game, so I shouldn't complain that it also pretty flawed. I think Darkfall should let itself be bought by SoE. They did wonders for Vanguard, who also promised lots of things..
Just wanted to comment on the high-lighted area above.
The large naval battles were featured prominently in pretty much every single video shown by Aventurine. Also, for those that were around in the months leading up to the Beta (the pre-release Beta... not the current on-going Beta) the large naval battles were hailed as one of the most anticipated.
So yeah... it's not unexpected that fans of DarkFall may once again want to re-write it's history. That doesn't change the fact that large naval battles are just another feature that DarkFall is missing.
I think you are missing the over-all point. Darkfall is only 4 months old and has an extremely high turn over rate. This is not good when you have a limited fanbase. Darkfall doesn't have 50k people wanting to play it.. it has roughly 10k. Of whats left of the original fanbase, Aventurien IS having a tough time keeping this game a float. They simply cannot continue on this path for much longer with only 6k ~ 8k subscribers. As they will have to file for bankruptcy soon.
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
Umm...
Pot meet kettle.
I too would be interested in this list of "Many MMOs" with less than 1,000 active subs. Since there are many it shouldn't be hard to come up with just a few.
And Cristina1, let's be sure to back up this extensive list you have with proof of solid numbers. I mean, since you have such an intimate knowledge of the games and their subscriber base, then it shouldn't be all that difficult...
I think you are missing the over-all point. Darkfall is only 4 months old and has an extremely high turn over rate. This is not good when you have a limited fanbase. Darkfall doesn't have 50k people wanting to play it.. it has roughly 10k. Of whats left of the original fanbase, Aventurien IS having a tough time keeping this game a float. They simply cannot continue on this path for much longer with only 6k ~ 8k subscribers. As they will have to file for bankruptcy soon.
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
Umm...
Pot meet kettle.
I too would be interested in this list of "Many MMOs" with less than 1,000 active subs. Since there are many it shouldn't be hard to come up with just a few.
And Cristina1, let's be sure to back up this extensive list you have with proof of solid numbers. I mean, since you have such an intimate knowledge of the games and their subscriber base, then it shouldn't be all that difficult...
first show me the your "proof" that Aventurine is strugling to keep Darkfall afloat.....just because you say its so doesnt mean it is so
first show me the your "proof" that Aventurine is strugling to keep Darkfall afloat.....just because you say its so doesnt mean it is so
Total straw man argument and mis-direction. Can any of you fanbots ever give a straight answer or did you all go to the Democrat school of political double speak?
I think you are missing the over-all point. Darkfall is only 4 months old and has an extremely high turn over rate. This is not good when you have a limited fanbase. Darkfall doesn't have 50k people wanting to play it.. it has roughly 10k. Of whats left of the original fanbase, Aventurien IS having a tough time keeping this game a float. They simply cannot continue on this path for much longer with only 6k ~ 8k subscribers. As they will have to file for bankruptcy soon.
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
Umm...
Pot meet kettle.
I too would be interested in this list of "Many MMOs" with less than 1,000 active subs. Since there are many it shouldn't be hard to come up with just a few.
And Cristina1, let's be sure to back up this extensive list you have with proof of solid numbers. I mean, since you have such an intimate knowledge of the games and their subscriber base, then it shouldn't be all that difficult...
first show me the your "proof" that Aventurine is strugling to keep Darkfall afloat.....just because you say its so doesnt mean it is so
Common sense makes it so...this is where a basic understanding of economics and understanding the value of a dollar comes in handy. ( before of course the Fed destroyed it)
first show me the your "proof" that Aventurine is strugling to keep Darkfall afloat.....just because you say its so doesnt mean it is so
Total straw man argument and mis-direction. Can any of you fanbots ever give a straight answer or did you all go to the Democrat school of political double speak?
I think you are missing the over-all point. Darkfall is only 4 months old and has an extremely high turn over rate. This is not good when you have a limited fanbase. Darkfall doesn't have 50k people wanting to play it.. it has roughly 10k. Of whats left of the original fanbase, Aventurien IS having a tough time keeping this game a float. They simply cannot continue on this path for much longer with only 6k ~ 8k subscribers. As they will have to file for bankruptcy soon.
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
Umm...
Pot meet kettle.
I too would be interested in this list of "Many MMOs" with less than 1,000 active subs. Since there are many it shouldn't be hard to come up with just a few.
And Cristina1, let's be sure to back up this extensive list you have with proof of solid numbers. I mean, since you have such an intimate knowledge of the games and their subscriber base, then it shouldn't be all that difficult...
first show me the your "proof" that Aventurine is strugling to keep Darkfall afloat.....just because you say its so doesnt mean it is so
Heh... and there you go. Thanks for removing any doubt that some may have had.
See when a poster makes claims like:
"Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years...."
and chides other posters with comments like:
"what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up."
They should probably expect to be called on it.
When said poster then tries to back-pedal their way out of silly statements that are obviously wrong... we will laugh at them. Thanks for the laugh. (Still the number one reason why most of us visit these DarkFall boards... they still produce!)
I think you are missing the over-all point. Darkfall is only 4 months old and has an extremely high turn over rate. This is not good when you have a limited fanbase. Darkfall doesn't have 50k people wanting to play it.. it has roughly 10k. Of whats left of the original fanbase, Aventurien IS having a tough time keeping this game a float. They simply cannot continue on this path for much longer with only 6k ~ 8k subscribers. As they will have to file for bankruptcy soon.
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
Umm...
Pot meet kettle.
I too would be interested in this list of "Many MMOs" with less than 1,000 active subs. Since there are many it shouldn't be hard to come up with just a few.
And Cristina1, let's be sure to back up this extensive list you have with proof of solid numbers. I mean, since you have such an intimate knowledge of the games and their subscriber base, then it shouldn't be all that difficult...
first show me the your "proof" that Aventurine is strugling to keep Darkfall afloat.....just because you say its so doesnt mean it is so
Since you are responding to my "proof" statement, well my dear, "I" never said anything about "Aventurine struggling to keep Darkfall afloat", now did I? I never made a statement that inferred I have intimate knowledge about the subject, unlike your MMOs with less than 1000 subscribers bit. Learn to match your arguements with the proper people, otherwise you just look foolish cupcake.
But, since the subject is here, yes I do think Aventurine is struggling (the key word being "think", thus making it an opinion and taking it out of a statement of fact). And no, I don't have definitive proof, I just have what I have witnessed and read to go by. There are fewer and fewer fanboi posts here and more of the thanks but no thanks posts, official DF forums seem to show more and more signs of malcontent, and unless banks work differently in Greece than they do everywhere else, Aventurine took out a large loan from what I remember not too long ago, a loan they will need to pay back. Add to that maintenance costs to keep the server running, paying programmers and the like...well sorry, the future doesn't look too bright if the game can't keep subscribers. Just my two cents.
So, now, as for your proof? Oh yeah, you don't have it. All you have is a weak attempt at misdirection. Nice try though.
I think you are missing the over-all point. Darkfall is only 4 months old and has an extremely high turn over rate. This is not good when you have a limited fanbase. Darkfall doesn't have 50k people wanting to play it.. it has roughly 10k. Of whats left of the original fanbase, Aventurien IS having a tough time keeping this game a float. They simply cannot continue on this path for much longer with only 6k ~ 8k subscribers. As they will have to file for bankruptcy soon.
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
Umm...
Pot meet kettle.
I too would be interested in this list of "Many MMOs" with less than 1,000 active subs. Since there are many it shouldn't be hard to come up with just a few.
And Cristina1, let's be sure to back up this extensive list you have with proof of solid numbers. I mean, since you have such an intimate knowledge of the games and their subscriber base, then it shouldn't be all that difficult...
first show me the your "proof" that Aventurine is strugling to keep Darkfall afloat.....just because you say its so doesnt mean it is so
Since you are responding to my "proof" statement, well my dear, "I" never said anything about "Aventurine struggling to keep Darkfall afloat", now did I? I never made a statement that inferred I have intimate knowledge about the subject, unlike your MMOs with less than 1000 subscribers bit. Learn to match your arguements with the proper people, otherwise you just look foolish cupcake.
But, since the subject is here, yes I do think Aventurine is struggling (the key word being "think", thus making it an opinion and taking it out of a statement of fact). And no, I don't have definitive proof, I just have what I have witnessed and read to go by. There are fewer and fewer fanboi posts here and more of the thanks but no thanks posts, official DF forums seem to show more and more signs of malcontent, and unless banks work differently in Greece than they do everywhere else, Aventurine took out a large loan from what I remember not too long ago, a loan they will need to pay back. Add to that maintenance costs to keep the server running, paying programmers and the like...well sorry, the future doesn't look too bright if the game can't keep subscribers. Just my two cents.
So, now, as for your proof? Oh yeah, you don't have it. All you have is a weak attempt at misdirection. Nice try though.
Adding a bit more fuel to the fire.
AV so far lived or you should say survived on loans. Over the course of years of development, they never made a dime. They live on loans. When loans are called they have no other optioins but call for fresh loans. These loans have conditions, I doubt what bank will accept 1k or even 10k x $15 a month as a condition for meeting the requirement for loan roll-over.
Now added to the fact that AV account mismanagement has already alerted the major Credit cards. Banks might actually blacklisted AV for the purpose of normal transactions. In any case, these will add a lot of complications when AV tries to shop banks begging for a loan, or a life-saving rope.
Without fresh loans, when the original loans were due, AV would have to be liquidated. Unless someone is willing to shore up the 10million euros + interest + finanacial charges due to delay in payment, or any other legal / financial charges due. Maybe some of the fans can organise a world wide declaration of war against the banks, well inside DF of course, before the server power shuts down.
Yes but you are missing one small point. People love to make negative posts re "OMGZ I QUIT!" people who dont make posts such as "I DONT QUIT!" unless its to annoy particular poster. So the perception that everybody is leaving is wrong, people quit MMOs all the time, you just need to know MMO life cycles to understand user numbers and explanations for them.Also Devs dont bother with "General discussion" section of the forums for obvious reasons, they stick to suggestion section and dot forget they ahve their own mind made up on how to develop their own game, so they dont follow players advice 100%. Oh and about naval battles, I would imagine they happen at sea some place? since i havent bothered to even go out to sea in a raft I dont know. Besides its not a naval simulator, if it was then i would understand you but its not the main focus of the game, so whats this fuss about naval battles? Even If clans worked out that building fleets is not that viable then whats wrong with that?
I think you are missing the over-all point.
Darkfall is only 4 months old and has an extremely high turn over rate. This is not good when you have a limited fanbase.
Darkfall doesn't have 50k people wanting to play it.. it has roughly 10k. Of whats left of the original fanbase, Aventurien IS having a tough time keeping this game a float. They simply cannot continue on this path for much longer with only 6k ~ 8k subscribers. As they will have to file for bankruptcy soon.
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
L O L ...! (please read and learn)
Many...? (really?)
Free to play MMO are designed around 8 month development cycles, on a single $11k server. These are not REAL mmorpgs, that have 3~4 year of development, that use open world design, requiring server farms costing $100,000 or more...!
Asain MMORPG games (ie: low budget), cost $80k to make... they can survive on 1,500 subs/month. Darkfall cost millions to make... are you starting to see the picture.
Only an adolecent would make the type of comments you've made, because any adult understands, there are costs involved in operating a business...! (what..?) Aventurine still has bills, needs to pay people, etc.
So Cristina1, ...where is the logic in your insanely ignorant post? How does Aventurine pay back $11 million dollars, with 6,000 people playing their game?
See, reality is now sinking in.. have a nice day!
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
Comments
more people have seen bigfoot......
There have been no navel battles of note in DF. At most its been one clan or alliance attacking a city with a ship, or losing a ship or two at most while attacking a city, usually to exploits or bad judgement, as players can swim faster then a ship can sail.
I was involved in numerous raft chases, which is the only "ship" faster then players swimming. Most were pretty fun, but it was usually 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 or something. As far as i know there has never been a large naval battle and most likely wont ever be one due to game mechanics, and resource costs to build ships.
To build ships requires a shipyard, which requires a harbor, to get both those buildings you have to build other buildings in a city. the harbor/shipyard take something like 350 building modules or more possibly, i dont really remember exactly but i know at the time it was a ton of stone/gold/wood/iron. 1 building module is 50 stone, 20 wood, 20 iron ingots, 250 gold.
Then to build ships you need ship modules which are 400 gold, 200 wood, 40 iron ingots, 50 cloth. the lowest level ship requires 15 modules and the highest requires 1000, as well as an astrolabe. astrolabes are rare drop items from mid to high level treasure chests, which the keys to open are a rare drop already, which means your in an arms race not only for resources but to exploit mid or high level mobs to get keys to get a chance at an astrolabe.
The end result, is that ships are non existant for the general playerbase or small clans, unless they want to dump money just for kicks. i know of 1 small clan that built a sloop, the lowest level ship. The guilds or alliances who did build ships basically exploited mobs to get keys, to get the rare drop item, and pumped a metric shiton of resources into buildings just to build a ship, only to lose it to a hacker, or to a zerg of swimmers with stamina potions and resin. So Massive Naval Battles will never happen under the current game mechanics, just like with most items/equipment/buildings the resource costs are so absurd as to eliminate the possibility of it happening anytime soon. The progression might happen in 6 months to a year, once people have built up stockpiles of resources, if the game survives. However i really doubt we will ever see a large scale ship battle as the ocean has minimal to litlte value currently. The only use for ships is to attack a player city, and in most cases its much more effective to attack with land based forces.
So how about making a video of one. Some of us would like to see a naval battle. So far all I have seen is boats flying or shooting at the land.
So, if the game doesnt have a video of ships shooting each other then the game has failed?
I have a feeling you got confused with games. Pirates of the Burning Sea MMO is all about ship combat, go ask them for a video, if they cant provide you with that then your complaining is fully justified. But DF is not a naval simulator.
I would say people have already defined DF as a failure for myriad other cited and supported reasons... at least in terms of what it is, versus what it was hyped to be by Tasos and co. A lack of massive naval battles may be just one more to add to the list.
As for your arguing that it's not a naval simulator... No, it isn't. However, that's also a disingenuous way to characterize the question.
Massive naval battles were one of the boasted features of DF going back many months. It's a feature that some fans in the past have cited as a "revolutionary" feature that places DF ahead of other PvP MMOs.
Yet, no one's posted a single vid of any such event happening yet...
Then, when someone questions the lack of naval battles, certain folks immediately do the classic "Darkfall Two-Step" and start arguing the other side. On a dime, they go from citing Naval Battles as a revolutionary feature making DF superior to other MMOs, to downplaying it as something unimportant because DF isn't a naval simulator. I'm sure at least one or two here would swiftly re-categorize it as "fluff that isn't necessary" to that end as well.
It's right up there with all the claims that DF would revolutionize MMORPGs and change people's expectations of what MMO should deliver... Only to do the Darkfall Two-Step when the game failed to deliver on much of its hyped revolutionary features. Their response then changed to, "well, AV is just an indie team. It's unfair to have such unrealistic expectations of them".
Rabid Darkfall Fans... forever arguing all sides of a situation.
Spot on as usual Mike.
For some of the newcomers to this sub-section of mmorpg.com I suppose they probably aren't aware of the lengthy discussions we had prior to DarkFall's release. They probably aren't aware that some of us DID NOT buy into the hype that Tasos and the ardent supporters were selling.
As each month goes by since DarkFall's release it becomes more and more obvious why the vocal, mega-hype supporters are becoming more and more scarce. (Well, scarce with their same accounts that they used back in Nov./Dec. anyway).
Perhaps one of them can point to a single issue that was raised before Release where they indeed turned out to be correct... I can't think of even one.
On the other hand... those of us who questioned the hype, and the PR spin that Tasos liked to fling around... I think we're batting pretty close to 1000.
For DarkFall's sake I'd like to hope that Aventurine is starting to realize that Tasos' leadership is sinking them fast. If they throw him overboard they may still have time to right the ship that is DarkFall.
Well said, and I agree.
Which was my main criticism of Aventurine's "method" of Beta-testing back when the official Beta was on-going. They are now finding out all this stuff in the current paid Beta.
If Aventurine wants to save DarkFall they should do what the developers of WW2: Online did back when it was released. Suspend monthly subscription payments for a few months, or give a credit for 3 months worth of subscriptions. That way, they will be able to at least salvage the few remaining subscribers they have left.
Once they get all these building resources requirements tweaked, and the game mechanics successfully working, as well as the other main issues resolved; then they could resume normal subscription billing.
Oh well, I'm sure Tasos thinks everything is sailing along smoothly. He will say they are doing even better than expected. And of course... everything that Tasos says is 100% true.
Well said, and I agree.
Which was my main criticism of Aventurine's "method" of Beta-testing back when the official Beta was on-going. They are now finding out all this stuff in the current paid Beta.
If Aventurine wants to save DarkFall they should do what the developers of WW2: Online did back when it was released. Suspend monthly subscription payments for a few months, or give a credit for 3 months worth of subscriptions. That way, they will be able to at least salvage the few remaining subscribers they have left.
Once they get all these building resources requirements tweaked, and the game mechanics successfully working, as well as the other main issues resolved; then they could resume normal subscription billing.
Oh well, I'm sure Tasos thinks everything is sailing along smoothly. He will say they are doing even better than expected. And of course... everything that Tasos says is 100% true.
I have been playing WW2 Online since its release. Its a bad example to use, appart from CRS and Aventurine being small dev teams, their games upon release where in completely different states. WW2 online was released in alfa state (as admited by CRS themselfs), it was so bad that some guns actually shot backwards, there was no scoring system what so ever so "kills" had no impact on anything at all. That is why CRS gave months free play. DF on the other hand is in beta state, yes. BUT all of the MMOs these days come out like that unforutnetely. Even the almighty WoW was crap and unstable and EVE, the same, just to name a few.
Well said, and I agree.
Which was my main criticism of Aventurine's "method" of Beta-testing back when the official Beta was on-going. They are now finding out all this stuff in the current paid Beta.
If Aventurine wants to save DarkFall they should do what the developers of WW2: Online did back when it was released. Suspend monthly subscription payments for a few months, or give a credit for 3 months worth of subscriptions. That way, they will be able to at least salvage the few remaining subscribers they have left.
Once they get all these building resources requirements tweaked, and the game mechanics successfully working, as well as the other main issues resolved; then they could resume normal subscription billing.
Oh well, I'm sure Tasos thinks everything is sailing along smoothly. He will say they are doing even better than expected. And of course... everything that Tasos says is 100% true.
I have been playing WW2 Online since its release. Its a bad example to use, appart from CRS and Aventurine being small dev teams, their games upon release where in completely different states. WW2 online was released in alfa state (as admited by CRS themselfs), it was so bad that some guns actually shot backwards, there was no scoring system what so ever so "kills" had no impact on anything at all. That is why CRS gave months free play. DF on the other hand is in beta state, yes. BUT all of the MMOs these days come out like that unforutnetely. Even the almighty WoW was crap and unstable and EVE, the same, just to name a few.
Freerealms released just a couple of month ago and it was an extremely polished and complete game when it came out.
Not every MMO releases like DFO. In fact, a LOT do not.
LoTRO was a pretty polished game on release.
WAR had a good release. Other problems aside it def. wasn't lacking in gameplay or features.
TCoSB had a good launch.
AoC was in a better state then DFO. I'm aware of the problems the game had, I played at launch, but it wasn't a beta state.
So no, your assemsment that ALL MMO's release in a beta state is wrong.
That's just an excuse that people use when the game they like releases in a beta state.
lmao! A zerg of swimmers? Hahahaha.
The one and only.
I think you are missing the over-all point.
Darkfall is only 4 months old and has an extremely high turn over rate. This is not good when you have a limited fanbase.
Darkfall doesn't have 50k people wanting to play it.. it has roughly 10k. Of whats left of the original fanbase, Aventurien IS having a tough time keeping this game a float. They simply cannot continue on this path for much longer with only 6k ~ 8k subscribers. As they will have to file for bankruptcy soon.
The game is a huge flop, as it provides no gameplay except dumbed down knife fighting, aka 7 years ago.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
I think you are missing the over-all point.
Darkfall is only 4 months old and has an extremely high turn over rate. This is not good when you have a limited fanbase.
Darkfall doesn't have 50k people wanting to play it.. it has roughly 10k. Of whats left of the original fanbase, Aventurien IS having a tough time keeping this game a float. They simply cannot continue on this path for much longer with only 6k ~ 8k subscribers. As they will have to file for bankruptcy soon.
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
I think you are missing the over-all point.
Darkfall is only 4 months old and has an extremely high turn over rate. This is not good when you have a limited fanbase.
Darkfall doesn't have 50k people wanting to play it.. it has roughly 10k. Of whats left of the original fanbase, Aventurien IS having a tough time keeping this game a float. They simply cannot continue on this path for much longer with only 6k ~ 8k subscribers. As they will have to file for bankruptcy soon.
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
WHAT? Please name one mmo that you have to buy and has a monthly subscription with only 1,000 players and is still running.
Aventurine has to pay off at least a 10 million dollar loan, Do you honestly think that having only 1,000 to 10,000 max subscriber base is going to support this?
I think you are missing the over-all point.
Darkfall is only 4 months old and has an extremely high turn over rate. This is not good when you have a limited fanbase.
Darkfall doesn't have 50k people wanting to play it.. it has roughly 10k. Of whats left of the original fanbase, Aventurien IS having a tough time keeping this game a float. They simply cannot continue on this path for much longer with only 6k ~ 8k subscribers. As they will have to file for bankruptcy soon.
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
WHAT? Please name one mmo that you have to buy and has a monthly subscription with only 1,000 players and is still running.
Aventurine has to pay off at least a 10 million dollar loan, Do you honestly think that having only 1,000 to 10,000 max subscriber base is going to support this?
Yes, I'd also be interested to see what the pay off on a 10 million dollar loan would be at their low subscriber numbers!
I'm sure that the "investors" will be wildly enthusiastic about a pennies on the dollar pay off while the game inches along at a snail's pace.......great business model, you betcha!
There have never been a naval battle in Darkfall, and in it`s current state it will never be a naval battle...ever. The reason is simple as Aedn points out, the huge grind in everything Darkfall have to offer.
Shipbuilding Skill Level 1
Ship 1: 15 modules, 1 astrolabe
Shipbuilding Skill Level 25
Ship 4: 30 modules, 1 astrolabe
Shipbuilding Skill Level 50
Ship 5: 50 modules, 1 astrolabe
Ship 6: 65 modules, 1 astrolabe
Ship 7: 90 modules, 1 astrolabe
Shipbuilding Skill Level 75:
Warship 1: 250 modules, 1 astrolabe mariners
Warship 2: 300 modules, 1 astrolabe mariners
Shipbuilding Skill Level 100:
Warship 3: 375 modules, 1 astrolabe mariners
Warship 4: 1000 modules, 3 astrolabe mariners
Just look at the amount of grinding you have to do just to build a ship. And this is not some easy EVE ship, because we don`t have insurance in Darkfall. The same is with the landbased Warhulks, you will never see a battle where one can risk losing one of those. The grind to get a ship is so huge, those who have build one make a youtube video to show off.
Just another thing Aventurine fcuked up with useless grinding.
I left before seeing anything bigger than a raft unfortunately.
I just wanted to comment on previous posts about naval warfare not being central to the game.
Not only is it a stated feature, but pretty important to island based clans. It is utterly ridiculous to watch thousands of players swimming the sea to get to another persons city.
I was also told PvE wasn't central to the game, so I shouldn't complain that it also pretty flawed.
I think Darkfall should let itself be bought by SoE. They did wonders for Vanguard, who also promised lots of things..
I think you are missing the over-all point.
Darkfall is only 4 months old and has an extremely high turn over rate. This is not good when you have a limited fanbase.
Darkfall doesn't have 50k people wanting to play it.. it has roughly 10k. Of whats left of the original fanbase, Aventurien IS having a tough time keeping this game a float. They simply cannot continue on this path for much longer with only 6k ~ 8k subscribers. As they will have to file for bankruptcy soon.
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
... and the bar just keeps getting lower.
How far this game has fallen from the bold claims of its most passionate fans as being "revolutionary" and "genre changing" only some months ago.
Once upon a time, there were people who claimed DF would have Blizzard concerned about losing subscriptions (which was absurd even then, but still...). Only a couple months ago, rabid fans were gloating daily about how there was a line to play the game because AV simply couldn't support the "100s of thousands of people" falling over each other for a chance to play...
Now we're down to referring to "MMOs" with less than 1,000 people and merely "staying afloat" as a defense of Darkfall's long-term viability.
So, so sad.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
Umm...
Pot meet kettle.
I too would be interested in this list of "Many MMOs" with less than 1,000 active subs. Since there are many it shouldn't be hard to come up with just a few.
Just wanted to comment on the high-lighted area above.
The large naval battles were featured prominently in pretty much every single video shown by Aventurine. Also, for those that were around in the months leading up to the Beta (the pre-release Beta... not the current on-going Beta) the large naval battles were hailed as one of the most anticipated.
So yeah... it's not unexpected that fans of DarkFall may once again want to re-write it's history. That doesn't change the fact that large naval battles are just another feature that DarkFall is missing.
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
Umm...
Pot meet kettle.
I too would be interested in this list of "Many MMOs" with less than 1,000 active subs. Since there are many it shouldn't be hard to come up with just a few.
And Cristina1, let's be sure to back up this extensive list you have with proof of solid numbers. I mean, since you have such an intimate knowledge of the games and their subscriber base, then it shouldn't be all that difficult...
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
Umm...
Pot meet kettle.
I too would be interested in this list of "Many MMOs" with less than 1,000 active subs. Since there are many it shouldn't be hard to come up with just a few.
And Cristina1, let's be sure to back up this extensive list you have with proof of solid numbers. I mean, since you have such an intimate knowledge of the games and their subscriber base, then it shouldn't be all that difficult...
first show me the your "proof" that Aventurine is strugling to keep Darkfall afloat.....just because you say its so doesnt mean it is so
Total straw man argument and mis-direction. Can any of you fanbots ever give a straight answer or did you all go to the Democrat school of political double speak?
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
Umm...
Pot meet kettle.
I too would be interested in this list of "Many MMOs" with less than 1,000 active subs. Since there are many it shouldn't be hard to come up with just a few.
And Cristina1, let's be sure to back up this extensive list you have with proof of solid numbers. I mean, since you have such an intimate knowledge of the games and their subscriber base, then it shouldn't be all that difficult...
first show me the your "proof" that Aventurine is strugling to keep Darkfall afloat.....just because you say its so doesnt mean it is so
Common sense makes it so...this is where a basic understanding of economics and understanding the value of a dollar comes in handy. ( before of course the Fed destroyed it)
Total straw man argument and mis-direction. Can any of you fanbots ever give a straight answer or did you all go to the Democrat school of political double speak?
LOL QFT..... well said!
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
Umm...
Pot meet kettle.
I too would be interested in this list of "Many MMOs" with less than 1,000 active subs. Since there are many it shouldn't be hard to come up with just a few.
And Cristina1, let's be sure to back up this extensive list you have with proof of solid numbers. I mean, since you have such an intimate knowledge of the games and their subscriber base, then it shouldn't be all that difficult...
first show me the your "proof" that Aventurine is strugling to keep Darkfall afloat.....just because you say its so doesnt mean it is so
Heh... and there you go. Thanks for removing any doubt that some may have had.
See when a poster makes claims like:
"Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years...."
and chides other posters with comments like:
"what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up."
They should probably expect to be called on it.
When said poster then tries to back-pedal their way out of silly statements that are obviously wrong... we will laugh at them. Thanks for the laugh.
(Still the number one reason why most of us visit these DarkFall boards... they still produce!)
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
Umm...
Pot meet kettle.
I too would be interested in this list of "Many MMOs" with less than 1,000 active subs. Since there are many it shouldn't be hard to come up with just a few.
And Cristina1, let's be sure to back up this extensive list you have with proof of solid numbers. I mean, since you have such an intimate knowledge of the games and their subscriber base, then it shouldn't be all that difficult...
first show me the your "proof" that Aventurine is strugling to keep Darkfall afloat.....just because you say its so doesnt mean it is so
Since you are responding to my "proof" statement, well my dear, "I" never said anything about "Aventurine struggling to keep Darkfall afloat", now did I? I never made a statement that inferred I have intimate knowledge about the subject, unlike your MMOs with less than 1000 subscribers bit. Learn to match your arguements with the proper people, otherwise you just look foolish cupcake.
But, since the subject is here, yes I do think Aventurine is struggling (the key word being "think", thus making it an opinion and taking it out of a statement of fact). And no, I don't have definitive proof, I just have what I have witnessed and read to go by. There are fewer and fewer fanboi posts here and more of the thanks but no thanks posts, official DF forums seem to show more and more signs of malcontent, and unless banks work differently in Greece than they do everywhere else, Aventurine took out a large loan from what I remember not too long ago, a loan they will need to pay back. Add to that maintenance costs to keep the server running, paying programmers and the like...well sorry, the future doesn't look too bright if the game can't keep subscribers. Just my two cents.
So, now, as for your proof? Oh yeah, you don't have it. All you have is a weak attempt at misdirection. Nice try though.
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
Umm...
Pot meet kettle.
I too would be interested in this list of "Many MMOs" with less than 1,000 active subs. Since there are many it shouldn't be hard to come up with just a few.
And Cristina1, let's be sure to back up this extensive list you have with proof of solid numbers. I mean, since you have such an intimate knowledge of the games and their subscriber base, then it shouldn't be all that difficult...
first show me the your "proof" that Aventurine is strugling to keep Darkfall afloat.....just because you say its so doesnt mean it is so
Since you are responding to my "proof" statement, well my dear, "I" never said anything about "Aventurine struggling to keep Darkfall afloat", now did I? I never made a statement that inferred I have intimate knowledge about the subject, unlike your MMOs with less than 1000 subscribers bit. Learn to match your arguements with the proper people, otherwise you just look foolish cupcake.
But, since the subject is here, yes I do think Aventurine is struggling (the key word being "think", thus making it an opinion and taking it out of a statement of fact). And no, I don't have definitive proof, I just have what I have witnessed and read to go by. There are fewer and fewer fanboi posts here and more of the thanks but no thanks posts, official DF forums seem to show more and more signs of malcontent, and unless banks work differently in Greece than they do everywhere else, Aventurine took out a large loan from what I remember not too long ago, a loan they will need to pay back. Add to that maintenance costs to keep the server running, paying programmers and the like...well sorry, the future doesn't look too bright if the game can't keep subscribers. Just my two cents.
So, now, as for your proof? Oh yeah, you don't have it. All you have is a weak attempt at misdirection. Nice try though.
Adding a bit more fuel to the fire.
AV so far lived or you should say survived on loans. Over the course of years of development, they never made a dime. They live on loans. When loans are called they have no other optioins but call for fresh loans. These loans have conditions, I doubt what bank will accept 1k or even 10k x $15 a month as a condition for meeting the requirement for loan roll-over.
Now added to the fact that AV account mismanagement has already alerted the major Credit cards. Banks might actually blacklisted AV for the purpose of normal transactions. In any case, these will add a lot of complications when AV tries to shop banks begging for a loan, or a life-saving rope.
Without fresh loans, when the original loans were due, AV would have to be liquidated. Unless someone is willing to shore up the 10million euros + interest + finanacial charges due to delay in payment, or any other legal / financial charges due. Maybe some of the fans can organise a world wide declaration of war against the banks, well inside DF of course, before the server power shuts down.
Amen.
I think you are missing the over-all point.
Darkfall is only 4 months old and has an extremely high turn over rate. This is not good when you have a limited fanbase.
Darkfall doesn't have 50k people wanting to play it.. it has roughly 10k. Of whats left of the original fanbase, Aventurien IS having a tough time keeping this game a float. They simply cannot continue on this path for much longer with only 6k ~ 8k subscribers. As they will have to file for bankruptcy soon.
what are you talking about, you know nothing, not nice to make stuff up. DF is not going anywhere. Many MMOs have less than 1,000 active subscribers and they have been "staying afloat" for years....
L O L ...! (please read and learn)
Many...? (really?)
Free to play MMO are designed around 8 month development cycles, on a single $11k server. These are not REAL mmorpgs, that have 3~4 year of development, that use open world design, requiring server farms costing $100,000 or more...!
Asain MMORPG games (ie: low budget), cost $80k to make... they can survive on 1,500 subs/month. Darkfall cost millions to make... are you starting to see the picture.
Only an adolecent would make the type of comments you've made, because any adult understands, there are costs involved in operating a business...! (what..?) Aventurine still has bills, needs to pay people, etc.
So Cristina1, ...where is the logic in your insanely ignorant post? How does Aventurine pay back $11 million dollars, with 6,000 people playing their game?
See, reality is now sinking in.. have a nice day!
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon