I really find this whole "It's not going to be an MMO!" argument funny. Maybe I just have a completely different view of how the game is going to turn out than some of you, but I'm imagining that TOR will be like a traditional themepark MMO like WoW* but with the added benefit that the quests from level 1 to end-game follow a story arc that is unique to your class and can be influenced by your choices. That's gotta be better than traditional questlines that amount to little more than "kill 10 wolves, ok now kill the boss wolf, ok now deliver the boss wolfs fur to a tanner, ok choose an item reward"
I'm at a loss as to how anyone can see what TOR is proposing to do as a bad thing. *I used WoW as an example on the basis that it's the most well-known themepark MMO; if the mere glimpse of those three letters enrages you to the point where you can't respond coherently to this post without devolving into a mass of gibbering bilespewing hatred, then mentally substitute it for EQ, LOTRO, AoC or any other themepark MMO that you find less offensive.
Here's what I'm hoping (not to be confused with "expecting"):
The proposed '4th pillar' lends a more organic, immersive quality to the game, rather than an on-rails themepark or progression-centric feel.
In-game paradoxes—such as stumbling onto another player with the exact same NPC companion(s), or formerly dead NPCs mysteriously reappearing—are minimized if not completely avoided.
The UI won't take up two-thirds of my screen real estate, and I won't have to micro-manage 147+ skills and/or hotkeys with Mortal Kombat precision to enjoy 'fast-paced' and 'real-time' combat.
Gold-farmers and RMT douche bags will neither have an incentive nor a market to ply their trade. (I can dream.)
It won't be gear-centric, and there will be a large variety of accessible, aesthetic choices for outfitting our characters.
Playable races/species will include droids.
There will be extensive space content, and it will be more akin to Larry Holland's X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter (or even SWG's "Jump to Lightspeed") than KotOR's "man the turret" mini-game.
I can kill Gungans, Jawas and Ewoks the whole day long.
Smugglers will have content that actually includes... smuggling.
Sorry you missed my point.. Let me rephrase it.. What is the difference if you make a game that has 2800 common quest and 200 class quest vs. a game that has 200 common quest and 2800 class specific quest? They both have 3,000 quest taking the same amount of hours to complete.. NO DIFFERENCE requardless how you wish to label it.. Two words: Replay Value. TOR's about the journey more than the destination; for an RPG/story fan who likes to play multiple characters, (like me) it's a MASSIVE difference to have unique storylines for each of the classes.
Obviously, for the "one character 4 EVA" type of player, there probably won't be a tangible difference; but they'll have end-game group/raid/PvP content to play with just as they would with any other MMO. EDIT Really? I have yet to see how anything is truely interlinked.. That is not different then Blizzard stating that all the quest are interlinked of the greater story, "killing the litch king".. lol Semantics.. All quest hubs effect your character and the game play.. BLIZZARD did this in the recent expansion of the LK.. If you go into certain zones and quest hubs, the game actually changes as you progress thru it.. Example being Icecrown.. If you are new to that zone and never did a quest the zone is completely different then someone that has done those quest.. I'm still not sure I like what they did there.. but what TOR is saying is not INNOVATIVE.. it's been done already
Not true. Your newbie quests in (for example) Northshire Abbey don't affect which quests you can do in Goldshire, or the rest of Elwynn. Once you leave Elwynn and go to Westfall there's no linkage; your past achievements are never reflected in the way that NPCs treat you Blizzard did indeed pioneer the use of phasing/micro instancing in one or two of it's most recent high-level quest hubs; it was a very innovative thing and I'll not detract from that; but TOR is doing that for the entire game and affording the player the luxury of directing the course of the story by their choices.
EDIT Maybe you should read MMORPG's own review of TOR from E3, which is on par with what others have said already.. Dana Massey says, "The Old Republic looks and feels far more like a single player RPG, than an MMO" Was that the one with the tagline of: "Dana Massey Asks "Why Not?": Make The Journey Fun
For some strange reason, "the journey" in MMOs is secondary and both developers and fans are at fault. Time to put the emphasis back on fun from 1 to 50, not 50 levels to have fun." Where he said: "Bioware’s Star Wars: The Old Republic looks a heck of a lot like a cooperative single-player RPG. The narrative seems, at a glance, to be a large part of the focus. While other exciting games like All Points Bulletin and Global Agenda are much more focused on character parity and unlockable content. It’s a tired cliché, but if the “next generation of MMOs” keeps this in mind and doesn’t take the easy way out when it comes to progress bars, we might well finally be in for that golden age we’ve all been waiting for. It’s about time MMOs leveled up." Source. 'cos that was praising TOR for making the levelling process more fun than in current MMOs. Certainly wasn't a negative viewpoint.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Originally posted by Rydeson Maybe you should read MMORPG's own review of TOR from E3, which is on par with what others have said already.. Dana Massey says, "The Old Republic looks and feels far more like a single player RPG, than an MMO"
Let's take a look at some other highlights from that review, shall we?
"...based on what they showed at E3, they’re not taking the easy way out at all."
"While the dialogue system looks and feels a lot like Mass Effect, it is important to note that it is expanded for MMOs. In that demonstration, there were two members in the group and both had chances to talk, and presumably shape the outcome of the conversation. They’ve made dialogue multiplayer."
"Of course, they also plan to do all the regular MMOish stuff. There will be PvP, raiding, guilds, crafting, etc. But that wasn’t why they had everyone into that room. They wanted to show us that they’ve made a game that looks and feels like Star Wars. It’s epic, it’s full of story and it’s online."
"They’re making a game that, while rooted in what people love about MMOs, adds a truly Bioware experience."
Originally posted by hanshotfirst Here's what I'm hoping (not to be confused with "expecting"): The proposed '4th pillar' lends a more organic, immersive quality to the game, rather than an on-rails themepark or progression-centric feel. In-game paradoxes—such as stumbling onto another player with the exact same NPC companion(s), or formerly dead NPCs mysteriously reappearing—are minimized if not completely avoided. The UI won't take up two-thirds of my screen real estate, and I won't have to micro-manage 147+ skills and/or hotkeys with Mortal Kombat precision to enjoy 'fast-paced' and 'real-time' combat. Gold-farmers and RMT douche bags will neither have an incentive nor a market to ply their trade. (I can dream.) It won't be gear-centric, and there will be a large variety of accessible, aesthetic choices for outfitting our characters. Playable races/species will include droids. There will be extensive space content, and it will be more akin to Larry Holland's X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter (or even SWG's "Jump to Lightspeed") than KotOR's "man the turret" mini-game. I can kill Gungans, Jawas and Ewoks the whole day long. Smugglers will have content that actually includes... smuggling.
I approve of this vision, with the following addendum:
I can be a wookiee jedi.
I am a hero, not a companion.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
That might be a long shot, since Lucas is against Wookiee Jedi and has mandated no more Furry Jedi in the EU. Whether or not he will impose this on SW:TOR is yet to be seen.
Sorry you missed my point.. Let me rephrase it.. What is the difference if you make a game that has 2800 common quest and 200 class quest vs. a game that has 200 common quest and 2800 class specific quest? They both have 3,000 quest taking the same amount of hours to complete.. NO DIFFERENCE requardless how you wish to label it.. Two words: Replay Value. TOR's about the journey more than the destination; for an RPG/story fan who likes to play multiple characters, (like me) it's a MASSIVE difference to have unique storylines for each of the classes.
Obviously, for the "one character 4 EVA" type of player, there probably won't be a tangible difference; but they'll have end-game group/raid/PvP content to play with just as they would with any other MMO. End game grouping / raid and PvP content has yet to be viewed by ANYONE, it's all hearsay for the moment.. IF Bioware holds true to their word.. the raiding will be a one time thing.. Technically once the boss is dead.. DONE.. your character is stuck in PvP land forever.. correct?
EDIT Really? I have yet to see how anything is truely interlinked.. That is not different then Blizzard stating that all the quest are interlinked of the greater story, "killing the litch king".. lol Semantics.. All quest hubs effect your character and the game play.. BLIZZARD did this in the recent expansion of the LK.. If you go into certain zones and quest hubs, the game actually changes as you progress thru it.. Example being Icecrown.. If you are new to that zone and never did a quest the zone is completely different then someone that has done those quest.. I'm still not sure I like what they did there.. but what TOR is saying is not INNOVATIVE.. it's been done already
Not true. Your newbie quests in (for example) Northshire Abbey don't affect which quests you can do in Goldshire, or the rest of Elwynn. Once you leave Elwynn and go to Westfall there's no linkage; your past achievements are never reflected in the way that NPCs treat you NOT true.. All quest from level 1 to level 80 have quest lines.. What you do even as a newbie effects what options open to you.. 1) if you dont' do the newbie quest you don't get the REP points needed to unlock more quest.. 2) Most of the quest are interlinked (aka quest lines) If I don't do quest A, quest B doesn't open for me.. etc etc.. Bioware is doing the exact same thing, just relabeling it in different clothes..
Blizzard did indeed pioneer the use of phasing/micro instancing in one or two of it's most recent high-level quest hubs; it was a very innovative thing and I'll not detract from that; but TOR is doing that for the entire game and affording the player the luxury of directing the course of the story by their choices. As for the phasing part.. as I said.. I'm still trying to figure out if that was a good thing.. why? Because it sucks when you have multiple people split up in different time zones.. Honestly if I had to play a game like that from level 1 to end game.. I'd quit.. I hate to tell everyone, "sorry I'm past that part and cant' phase with you.. you're on your own".. This continues to the illogic of group members being able to phase with you IF they have already done that encounter.. Bioware has said time and time again, it's not going to do the same ole "kill X mob" over and over .. IF that is truely the case then once you kill the captain (x mob) you are DONE with that mob FOREVER.. However, I seriously doub that Bioware will stay true to that bullchit..
EDIT Maybe you should read MMORPG's own review of TOR from E3, which is on par with what others have said already.. Dana Massey says, "The Old Republic looks and feels far more like a single player RPG, than an MMO" Was that the one with the tagline of: "Dana Massey Asks "Why Not?": Make The Journey Fun
For some strange reason, "the journey" in MMOs is secondary and both developers and fans are at fault. Time to put the emphasis back on fun from 1 to 50, not 50 levels to have fun." Where he said: "Bioware’s Star Wars: The Old Republic looks a heck of a lot like a cooperative single-player RPG. The narrative seems, at a glance, to be a large part of the focus. While other exciting games like All Points Bulletin and Global Agenda are much more focused on character parity and unlockable content. It’s a tired cliché, but if the “next generation of MMOs” keeps this in mind and doesn’t take the easy way out when it comes to progress bars, we might well finally be in for that golden age we’ve all been waiting for. It’s about time MMOs leveled up." Source. 'cos that was praising TOR for making the levelling process more fun than in current MMOs. Certainly wasn't a negative viewpoint.
No one said it wasn't going to be fun if you are into games like that.. I just refuse to rent KOTOR 3 at the price of $15 a month, and I feel many like myself just arent' going to buy their story.. The whole lame story epic crap Bioware is shelling out tells me there is an END to the story.. Once you done the storyline you are done.. the Story ends.. There is no end game other then PvP.. Unless Bioware has been untruthful to their word..
That might be a long shot, since Lucas is against Wookiee Jedi and has mandated no more Furry Jedi in the EU. Whether or not he will impose this on SW:TOR is yet to be seen.
And to think, he has a beard.
Surely there's some sort of hypocrisy at work there.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
End game grouping / raid and PvP content has yet to be viewed by ANYONE, it's all hearsay for the moment.. IF Bioware holds true to their word.. the raiding will be a one time thing.. Technically once the boss is dead.. DONE.. your character is stuck in PvP land forever.. correct?
Hard to say as there isn't any in-depth information about the end-game yet, but I believe that Bioware is marketing the storyline aspect as a replacement/augmentation to the levelling process, and that the end-game would remain "traditional", though possibly with some element of choice. Like I say, hard to say without concrete information. NOT true.. All quest from level 1 to level 80 have quest lines.. What you do even as a newbie effects what options open to you.. 1) if you dont' do the newbie quest you don't get the REP points needed to unlock more quest.. 2) Most of the quest are interlinked (aka quest lines) If I don't do quest A, quest B doesn't open for me.. etc etc.. Bioware is doing the exact same thing, just relabeling it in different clothes..
There's a huge difference between prerequisite quests and meaningful storyline progression. To give an example; daily quests in WoW. You have to do the same quest repeatedly for 3 weeks to grind up the rep necessary for the faction to like you enough to give you another quest which you then grind repeatedly 'til you hit the next rep level. That's pure timesink. What a storyline progression would do is give you a smooth sequence of quests all the way from neutral to exalted. Likewise with levelling; in WoW you can grind from level 1 to 70 on random mobs, then go straight to Northrend and begin the quests there. There's absolutely no crossover or continuity. As for the phasing part.. as I said.. I'm still trying to figure out if that was a good thing.. why? Because it sucks when you have multiple people split up in different time zones.. Honestly if I had to play a game like that from level 1 to end game.. I'd quit.. I hate to tell everyone, "sorry I'm past that part and cant' phase with you.. you're on your own".. This continues to the illogic of group members being able to phase with you IF they have already done that encounter.. Bioware has said time and time again, it's not going to do the same ole "kill X mob" over and over .. IF that is truely the case then once you kill the captain (x mob) you are DONE with that mob FOREVER.. However, I seriously doub that Bioware will stay true to that bullchit..
Bit of a strawman there; you're assuming that phasing causes lockouts in Bioware and we don't know that yet. Obviously, it would only be an issue if you grouped with another member of your own class who was on a different step of their story mission as you are, and in that instance you may just join their micro-instance as a group-member without it having any bearing on your own storyline progression.
No one said it wasn't going to be fun if you are into games like that.. I just refuse to rent KOTOR 3 at the price of $15 a month, and I feel many like myself just arent' going to buy their story.. The whole lame story epic crap Bioware is shelling out tells me there is an END to the story.. Once you done the storyline you are done.. the Story ends.. There is no end game other then PvP.. Unless Bioware has been untruthful to their word.
Don't attempt to twist words to make Bioware seem dishonest; they've always been upfront about what the game will be; a story-driven journey to end-game where you make the choice to either do the end-game content or reroll and do a different story.
If that ain't the game for you then that's fine; there are other games out there. It's the game for me.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
End game grouping / raid and PvP content has yet to be viewed by ANYONE, it's all hearsay for the moment.. IF Bioware holds true to their word.. the raiding will be a one time thing.. Technically once the boss is dead.. DONE.. your character is stuck in PvP land forever.. correct?
Hard to say as there isn't any in-depth information about the end-game yet, but I believe that Bioware is marketing the storyline aspect as a replacement/augmentation to the levelling process, and that the end-game would remain "traditional", though possibly with some element of choice. Like I say, hard to say without concrete information. OK I have to ask.. you think end game might be traditional? That would mean that it doesn't matter one BIT what I do from start to finish, I'm doing the same end game as everyone else? Correct? So I guess making choices doesn't really matter.. However I suspect there is no end game, other then PvP.. Once the story ends.. DONE.. NOT true.. All quest from level 1 to level 80 have quest lines.. What you do even as a newbie effects what options open to you.. 1) if you dont' do the newbie quest you don't get the REP points needed to unlock more quest.. 2) Most of the quest are interlinked (aka quest lines) If I don't do quest A, quest B doesn't open for me.. etc etc.. Bioware is doing the exact same thing, just relabeling it in different clothes..
There's a huge difference between prerequisite quests and meaningful storyline progression. To give an example; daily quests in WoW. You have to do the same quest repeatedly for 3 weeks to grind up the rep necessary for the faction to like you enough to give you another quest which you then grind repeatedly 'til you hit the next rep level. That's pure timesink. What a storyline progression would do is give you a smooth sequence of quests all the way from neutral to exalted. And you think would take how long? I suspect a true powergamer will complete the entire story arc for their class in less then 2 weeks.. Then what? Make another class and do it again? WoW as over 3,000 quest.. LoTRO has close to that as well.. I suspect TOR will have over 2,000 total quest.. (just split up to 8 classes)
Likewise with levelling; in WoW you can grind from level 1 to 70 on random mobs, then go straight to Northrend and begin the quests there. There's absolutely no crossover or continuity. and the problem there is what? the advancement of a toon or alt is optional to the player.. Technically what Bioware is saying.. YOU WILL advance the way we tell you or you dont' level .. Sounds cookie cutter to me.. As for the phasing part.. as I said.. I'm still trying to figure out if that was a good thing.. why? Because it sucks when you have multiple people split up in different time zones.. Honestly if I had to play a game like that from level 1 to end game.. I'd quit.. I hate to tell everyone, "sorry I'm past that part and cant' phase with you.. you're on your own".. This continues to the illogic of group members being able to phase with you IF they have already done that encounter.. Bioware has said time and time again, it's not going to do the same ole "kill X mob" over and over .. IF that is truely the case then once you kill the captain (x mob) you are DONE with that mob FOREVER.. However, I seriously doub that Bioware will stay true to that bullchit..
Bit of a strawman there; you're assuming that phasing causes lockouts in Bioware and we don't know that yet. Obviously, it would only be an issue if you grouped with another member of your own class who was on a different step of their story mission as you are, and in that instance you may just join their micro-instance as a group-member without it having any bearing on your own storyline progression.
According to Bioware's own bragging , "all actions preformed by your character will have an effect in the game".. So I have to again ask.. IF Bioware is being truthful, how can a person who has completed a quest REPEAT that quest with others? It's impossible!!! We have seen this with phasing in other games like WoW with Icecrown and Storm Peaks.. This is very anti MMO to have phasing lockouts.. You might as well be playing a single player console rpg then.
As Bioware has released, one of the starting quest is to kill the captain or not kill the capain.. Well I have to ask.. If you KILL the captain Tues morning, and it EFFECTS your character, how can you turn around and group up with a friend Tues afternoon and be involved in that encounter again? Especially if your friend decides to NOT kil the captain.. Think about it bro..
No one said it wasn't going to be fun if you are into games like that.. I just refuse to rent KOTOR 3 at the price of $15 a month, and I feel many like myself just arent' going to buy their story.. The whole lame story epic crap Bioware is shelling out tells me there is an END to the story.. Once you done the storyline you are done.. the Story ends.. There is no end game other then PvP.. Unless Bioware has been untruthful to their word.
Don't attempt to twist words to make Bioware seem dishonest; they've always been upfront about what the game will be; a story-driven journey to end-game where you make the choice to either do the end-game content or reroll and do a different story.
If that ain't the game for you then that's fine; there are other games out there. It's the game for me. Welcome to KoTOR 3, and 4, and 5, and 6, and 7 in Bioware's own words.. I'd rather not RENT KoTOR each month.. but hey, if you got money to burn.. go for it.. LOL Economy today needs it.. lol
OK I have to ask.. you think end game might be traditional? That would mean that it doesn't matter one BIT what I do from start to finish, I'm doing the same end game as everyone else? Correct? So I guess making choices doesn't really matter.. However I suspect there is no end game, other then PvP.. Once the story ends.. DONE..
Bioware has said that your choices affect your character. That wouldn't have any effect on endgame content.
And you think would take how long? I suspect a true powergamer will complete the entire story arc for their class in less then 2 weeks.. Then what? Make another class and do it again? WoW as over 3,000 quest.. LoTRO has close to that as well.. I suspect TOR will have over 2,000 total quest.. (just split up to 8 classes)
"Hundreds of hours" per class is the quote; at a conservative estimate that's 200 hours (could be much more), so for a powergamer who plays 40hr/week, you're looking at 5 weeks; that's about twice the time it would take the same guy to level a character from 1 to 80 in WoW.
and the problem there is what? the advancement of a toon or alt is optional to the player.. Technically what Bioware is saying.. YOU WILL advance the way we tell you or you dont' level .. Sounds cookie cutter to me..
You've no information to back up that assumption; there's every chance you can grind mobs to max level in TOR too, they haven't said either way.
According to Bioware's own bragging , "all actions preformed by your character will have an effect in the game".. So I have to again ask.. IF Bioware is being truthful, how can a person who has completed a quest REPEAT that quest with others? It's impossible!!! We have seen this with phasing in other games like WoW with Icecrown and Storm Peaks.. This is very anti MMO to have phasing lockouts.. You might as well be playing a single player console rpg then.
As Bioware has released, one of the starting quest is to kill the captain or not kill the capain.. Well I have to ask.. If you KILL the captain Tues morning, and it EFFECTS your character, how can you turn around and group up with a friend Tues afternoon and be involved in that encounter again? Especially if your friend decides to NOT kil the captain.. Think about it bro..
Simple. Two captains.
Welcome to KoTOR 3, and 4, and 5, and 6, and 7 in Bioware's own words.. I'd rather not RENT KoTOR each month.. but hey, if you got money to burn.. go for it.. LOL Economy today needs it.. lol
You're taking that quote out of context; they were referring to the class storylines, each of which is longer (in gaming hours) than an entire KOTOR game.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Don't attempt to twist words to make Bioware seem dishonest; they've always been upfront about what the game will be; a story-driven journey to end-game where you make the choice to either do the end-game content or reroll and do a different story.
If that ain't the game for you then that's fine; there are other games out there. It's the game for me.
Just curious. So, after you re-roll and play through all 8 classes to get all 8 storylines, then what are you going to do? Crafting, will most likely be barely functional at best based on Vogel's stance. I guess you could play through all of the classes again and choose the opposite path through the story. But then what?
Even the book quests took some time in LOTRO because some of them required a group. From the way Bioware has talked you can do "your story" solo. This to me says that it can be done faster than the book quests in LOTRO, and I finished the book quests that were in at launch in 2-3 months. I'd doubt they were going to add the level of content they have for each class' "story" (x2 for paths) on a fairly regular basis.
So...what does one do when they re-rolled and done all the story?
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Don't attempt to twist words to make Bioware seem dishonest; they've always been upfront about what the game will be; a story-driven journey to end-game where you make the choice to either do the end-game content or reroll and do a different story.
If that ain't the game for you then that's fine; there are other games out there. It's the game for me.
Just curious. So, after you re-roll and play through all 8 classes to get all 8 storylines, then what are you going to do? Crafting, will most likely be barely functional at best based on Vogel's stance. I guess you could play through all of the classes again and choose the opposite path through the story. But then what?
Even the book quests took some time in LOTRO because some of them required a group. From the way Bioware has talked you can do "your story" solo. This to me says that it can be done faster than the book quests in LOTRO, and I finished the book quests that were in at launch in 2-3 months. I'd doubt they were going to add the level of content they have for each class' "story" (x2 for paths) on a fairly regular basis.
So...what does one do when they re-rolled and done all the story?
PvP?
Raid?
Socialize?
Just a suggestion. You know you and me don't see eye to eye on Crafting, but for pete's sake. They have -said- multiple times that end-game content will be there. The question is how it will present itself. I have no clue if it will be any good right now.
But it will be there, so please, everyone stop acting as though they aim not to include stuff to do after you're done with the story.
If people want facts about the game then they should be heading to the official site and reading the FAQ but that doesn't happene because it is so much easier to babble misinformation to get everyone all riled up over nothing.
Don't attempt to twist words to make Bioware seem dishonest; they've always been upfront about what the game will be; a story-driven journey to end-game where you make the choice to either do the end-game content or reroll and do a different story.
If that ain't the game for you then that's fine; there are other games out there. It's the game for me.
Just curious. So, after you re-roll and play through all 8 classes to get all 8 storylines, then what are you going to do? Crafting, will most likely be barely functional at best based on Vogel's stance. I guess you could play through all of the classes again and choose the opposite path through the story. But then what?
Even the book quests took some time in LOTRO because some of them required a group. From the way Bioware has talked you can do "your story" solo. This to me says that it can be done faster than the book quests in LOTRO, and I finished the book quests that were in at launch in 2-3 months. I'd doubt they were going to add the level of content they have for each class' "story" (x2 for paths) on a fairly regular basis.
So...what does one do when they re-rolled and done all the story?
PvP?
Raid?
Socialize?
Just a suggestion. You know you and me don't see eye to eye on Crafting, but for pete's sake. They have -said- multiple times that end-game content will be there. The question is how it will present itself. I have no clue if it will be any good right now.
But it will be there, so please, everyone stop acting as though they aim not to include stuff to do after you're done with the story.
Yeah, and as I have stated up above my beliefs about how "much"..."fleshed out"...will those systems be in so far as to be systems that will keep players around and "gainfully employed/engaged" until more story can be rolled out. I never said those things wouldn't be there (you must be confusing me with some other poster), I just challenge the "level" at which those things will be there. As of right now, based on Vogel and Walton's words, it looks like they'll be present in so far as to say "we have it too". Not in any depth.
I just don't particularly think that it will have any lasting depth or be any good. I fully believe the story parts will be well-done, however, story alone, just like combat alone (ahem, Funcom), will not make a game that keeps the majority of players around for a long time.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Originally posted by Khalathwyr Just curious. So, after you re-roll and play through all 8 classes to get all 8 storylines, then what are you going to do? Crafting, will most likely be barely functional at best based on Vogel's stance. I guess you could play through all of the classes again and choose the opposite path through the story. But then what? Even the book quests took some time in LOTRO because some of them required a group. From the way Bioware has talked you can do "your story" solo. This to me says that it can be done faster than the book quests in LOTRO, and I finished the book quests that were in at launch in 2-3 months. I'd doubt they were going to add the level of content they have for each class' "story" (x2 for paths) on a fairly regular basis. So...what does one do when they re-rolled and done all the story?
Whatever they want do; they can group, raid, PvP, RP/Socialise etc.
Personally, I'm a casual gamer (about 20 hours a week) so 8 classes with "hundreds" of hours of gameplay each will last me about at least 18 months assuming that I don't do a single one of the things I mentioned above.
That ain't bad going.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Originally posted by Khalathwyr Yeah, and as I have stated up above my beliefs about how "much"..."fleshed out"...will those systems be in so far as to be systems that will keep players around and "gainfully employed/engaged" until more story can be rolled out. I never said those things wouldn't be there (you must be confusing me with some other poster), I just challenge the "level" at which those things will be there. As of right now, based on Vogel and Walton's words, it looks like they'll be present in so far as to say "we have it too". Not in any depth. I just don't particularly think that it will have any lasting depth or be any good. I fully believe the story parts will be well-done, however, story alone, just like combat alone (ahem, Funcom), will not make a game that keeps the majority of players around for a long time.
What a terrible and pessimistic world you must live in where: "We will have story!" morphs itself into "We will have story! .. but every other aspect of the game will SUCK."
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Yeah, and as I have stated up above my beliefs about how "much"..."fleshed out"...will those systems be in so far as to be systems that will keep players around and "gainfully employed/engaged" until more story can be rolled out. I never said those things wouldn't be there (you must be confusing me with some other poster), I just challenge the "level" at which those things will be there. As of right now, based on Vogel and Walton's words, it looks like they'll be present in so far as to say "we have it too". Not in any depth. I just don't particularly think that it will have any lasting depth or be any good. I fully believe the story parts will be well-done, however, story alone, just like combat alone (ahem, Funcom), will not make a game that keeps the majority of players around for a long time.
Aheh. Yeah, I got a bit overzealous there, what with every other poster on this forum blatantly ignoring statements officially made. Sorry about that.
The extent of the endgame is, yeah, an unknown thing right now. Will it be engaging? Will it be enough to keep players playing? All things that are unanswered and yeah, that is the one big worry on my mind.
I don't doubt there will be things to do. Will it be enough though? For now I'd like to think the reason they do not talk about end-game very much is simply that it is not the priority of their PR. As I've said in other posts, it is natural for a company to focus on the things that are unique/different in their game and the things they are known for. Here's to hoping that they do not however, just slap on some lackluster PvP/Raid content and leave it at that.
Story will set the game apart, surely, but it needs other quality content to stay afloat. They said they will have the content, now it's all a matter of the quality.
Originally posted by Khalathwyr Yeah, and as I have stated up above my beliefs about how "much"..."fleshed out"...will those systems be in so far as to be systems that will keep players around and "gainfully employed/engaged" until more story can be rolled out. I never said those things wouldn't be there (you must be confusing me with some other poster), I just challenge the "level" at which those things will be there. As of right now, based on Vogel and Walton's words, it looks like they'll be present in so far as to say "we have it too". Not in any depth. I just don't particularly think that it will have any lasting depth or be any good. I fully believe the story parts will be well-done, however, story alone, just like combat alone (ahem, Funcom), will not make a game that keeps the majority of players around for a long time.
What a terrible and pessimistic world you must live in where: "We will have story!" morphs itself into "We will have story! .. but every other aspect of the game will SUCK."
Actually, the world I live in is quite nice, thanks for your interest. I just don't have the blinders on that some have in thinking this title will be the next best thing since sliced bread as some do. I don't recall saying any aspect will "SUCK" however I'm observant enough to read all of what they have said and realize they aren't talking more than a sentence or two about those other aspects. I know that story is their key component they wish to push and should get alot of face time. I'm just also of the belief that those other systems should be getting more face time than they are (which is not to say they should be getting more than the story talk, just more than they are if Bioware had any intention of of doing more than the bare minimum.
Thanks for answering my question. As it appears, from your second response, it is heading down the route of personal criticisms, it's safe to say we have nothing further to talk about.
Cheers.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Yeah, and as I have stated up above my beliefs about how "much"..."fleshed out"...will those systems be in so far as to be systems that will keep players around and "gainfully employed/engaged" until more story can be rolled out. I never said those things wouldn't be there (you must be confusing me with some other poster), I just challenge the "level" at which those things will be there. As of right now, based on Vogel and Walton's words, it looks like they'll be present in so far as to say "we have it too". Not in any depth. I just don't particularly think that it will have any lasting depth or be any good. I fully believe the story parts will be well-done, however, story alone, just like combat alone (ahem, Funcom), will not make a game that keeps the majority of players around for a long time.
Aheh. Yeah, I got a bit overzealous there, what with every other poster on this forum blatantly ignoring statements officially made. Sorry about that.
The extent of the endgame is, yeah, an unknown thing right now. Will it be engaging? Will it be enough to keep players playing? All things that are unanswered and yeah, that is the one big worry on my mind.
I don't doubt there will be things to do. Will it be enough though? For now I'd like to think the reason they do not talk about end-game very much is simply that it is not the priority of their PR. As I've said in other posts, it is natural for a company to focus on the things that are unique/different in their game and the things they are known for. Here's to hoping that they do not however, just slap on some lackluster PvP/Raid content and leave it at that.
Story will set the game apart, surely, but it needs other quality content to stay afloat. They said they will have the content, now it's all a matter of the quality.
And, unfortunately, that is the nature of Bioware. they don't talk alot about their games in production until it is very near release. Anyone who has followed a bioware game can attest to that.
If, once the information starts truly flowing, it turns out Vogel was full of it and they do have a robust crafting system, then yeah, I will give this title at leas 30 days. It's just that, for me, everything that has been said (and not said, lol) about crafting and the other systems leaves room for doubt on how much effort they are actually putting into those systems. Granted, we can only speculate, as you suggest, at this point. I just think it does a disservice to only speculate to the positive. So much of that has been done recently with companies who for all purposes had very good reputations. There is a real possibility that more of the same can happen here and that possibility in my view shouldn't be hushed off into some corner. Yes, some folks take it too far like chicken little. I don't advocate that view.
But just as others (myself included) tout Bioware's story telling ability, we also have to realize they haven't really made a game using any of those other "MMO aspects/systems". The doubt I personally express is not that of that they can't do it in great detail. It's more of "will they?" And again, based on words from Vogel's mouth, I don't think they want to. *shrug*
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
And, unfortunately, that is the nature of Bioware. they don't talk alot about their games in production until it is very near release. Anyone who has followed a bioware game can attest to that. If, once the information starts truly flowing, it turns out Vogel was full of it and they do have a robust crafting system, then yeah, I will give this title at leas 30 days. It's just that, for me, everything that has been said (and not said, lol) about crafting and the other systems leaves room for doubt on how much effort they are actually putting into those systems. Granted, we can only speculate, as you suggest, at this point. I just think it does a disservice to only speculate to the positive. So much of that has been done recently with companies who for all purposes had very good reputations. There is a real possibility that more of the same can happen here and that possibility in my view shouldn't be hushed off into some corner. Yes, some folks take it too far like chicken little. I don't advocate that view. But just as others (myself included) tout Bioware's story telling ability, we also have to realize they haven't really made a game using any of those other "MMO aspects/systems". The doubt I personally express is not that of that they can't do it in great detail. It's more of "will they?" And again, based on words from Vogel's mouth, I don't think they want to. *shrug*
I just have to throw out there, that the "they" you're referring to have made MMO's before. Bioware hired quite a few devs with MMO backgrounds even placing them in charge of the product.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
And, unfortunately, that is the nature of Bioware. they don't talk alot about their games in production until it is very near release. Anyone who has followed a bioware game can attest to that. If, once the information starts truly flowing, it turns out Vogel was full of it and they do have a robust crafting system, then yeah, I will give this title at leas 30 days. It's just that, for me, everything that has been said (and not said, lol) about crafting and the other systems leaves room for doubt on how much effort they are actually putting into those systems. Granted, we can only speculate, as you suggest, at this point. I just think it does a disservice to only speculate to the positive. So much of that has been done recently with companies who for all purposes had very good reputations. There is a real possibility that more of the same can happen here and that possibility in my view shouldn't be hushed off into some corner. Yes, some folks take it too far like chicken little. I don't advocate that view. But just as others (myself included) tout Bioware's story telling ability, we also have to realize they haven't really made a game using any of those other "MMO aspects/systems". The doubt I personally express is not that of that they can't do it in great detail. It's more of "will they?" And again, based on words from Vogel's mouth, I don't think they want to. *shrug*
I just have to throw out there, that the "they" you're referring to have made MMO's before. Bioware hired quite a few devs with MMO backgrounds even placing them in charge of the product.
I know that, lol. I just have to throw out there that in several of my posts I mention, in specific, the names Vogel and Walton. "They" are essentially in charge of this project and "they" are the ones that worry me, lol. My fault for not going into greater detail there. So I'm worried about "their" (Vogel and Walton) direction and "their" (the Bioware originals who haven't done an MMO before) take on implementing what they can of those systems that "they" (again, Vogel and Walton) will let them implement.
I need a crown and coke after that. Or some Captain Morgan on the rocks, lol!
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Originally posted by Khalathwyr Actually, the world I live in is quite nice, thanks for your interest. I just don't have the blinders on that some have in thinking this title will be the next best thing since sliced bread as some do. I don't recall saying any aspect will "SUCK" however I'm observant enough to read all of what they have said and realize they aren't talking more than a sentence or two about those other aspects. I know that story is their key component they wish to push and should get alot of face time. I'm just also of the belief that those other systems should be getting more face time than they are (which is not to say they should be getting more than the story talk, just more than they are if Bioware had any intention of of doing more than the bare minimum. Hmm, so negative assumptions based on a lack of information is fine, but positive assumptions based on the same lack of information implies "blinders" .. ? .. you're aware that blinders would insinuate that one is intentionally refusing to see something, whereas in this case we're talking about something that can't be seen. So it's a criticism that doesn't really apply.
Bioware is concentrating on the story because it's something that's never really been done before and they're intentionally marketing the game towards RPG fans in an attempt to assimilate more players into the MMO genre. If they'd stood up at E3 and talked for 30 minutes about how the game would have raiding, PVP and crafting, the overwhelming response would be "meh well, so what? .. every MMO does". They've already said that the game will have those elements; what more could they say about them that would entice their target market? Thanks for answering my question. As it appears, from your second response, it is heading down the route of personal criticisms, it's safe to say we have nothing further to talk about. Heh, indignancy should replace a response, not be tacked on to the end of one to discourage disagreement.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Originally posted by Khalathwyr Actually, the world I live in is quite nice, thanks for your interest. I just don't have the blinders on that some have in thinking this title will be the next best thing since sliced bread as some do. I don't recall saying any aspect will "SUCK" however I'm observant enough to read all of what they have said and realize they aren't talking more than a sentence or two about those other aspects. I know that story is their key component they wish to push and should get alot of face time. I'm just also of the belief that those other systems should be getting more face time than they are (which is not to say they should be getting more than the story talk, just more than they are if Bioware had any intention of of doing more than the bare minimum. Hmm, so negative assumptions based on a lack of information is fine, but positive assumptions based on the same lack of information implies "blinders" .. ? .. you're aware that blinders would insinuate that one is intentionally refusing to see something, whereas in this case we're talking about something that can't be seen. So it's a criticism that doesn't really apply.
Bioware is concentrating on the story because it's something that's never really been done before and they're intentionally marketing the game towards RPG fans in an attempt to assimilate more players into the MMO genre. If they'd stood up at E3 and talked for 30 minutes about how the game would have raiding, PVP and crafting, the overwhelming response would be "meh well, so what? .. every MMO does". They've already said that the game will have those elements; what more could they say about them that would entive their target market? Thanks for answering my question. As it appears, from your second response, it is heading down the route of personal criticisms, it's safe to say we have nothing further to talk about. Heh, indignancy should replace a response, not be tacked on to the end of one to discourage disagreement.
I have no intent to "discourage disagreement". I just don't have time to disagree at the adolescent level of making personal jabs about others lives in the guise of debate/disagreement. I've disagreed with SingsofDeath countless times and yet we manage to stay on topic and not make personal attacks or analysis of the other. That is part and parsel of your repertoire, it seems, evidence again calling me indignant, lol. Let me reassure you that the last 2 lines I wrote weren't expressing any strong displeasure at your verbal jabs. They were just stating facts. Just the same as the fact that I don't particulary feel to engage in such banter.
So, once again, cheers.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Comments
Here's what I'm hoping (not to be confused with "expecting"):
The proposed '4th pillar' lends a more organic, immersive quality to the game, rather than an on-rails themepark or progression-centric feel.
In-game paradoxes—such as stumbling onto another player with the exact same NPC companion(s), or formerly dead NPCs mysteriously reappearing—are minimized if not completely avoided.
The UI won't take up two-thirds of my screen real estate, and I won't have to micro-manage 147+ skills and/or hotkeys with Mortal Kombat precision to enjoy 'fast-paced' and 'real-time' combat.
Gold-farmers and RMT douche bags will neither have an incentive nor a market to ply their trade. (I can dream.)
It won't be gear-centric, and there will be a large variety of accessible, aesthetic choices for outfitting our characters.
Playable races/species will include droids.
There will be extensive space content, and it will be more akin to Larry Holland's X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter (or even SWG's "Jump to Lightspeed") than KotOR's "man the turret" mini-game.
I can kill Gungans, Jawas and Ewoks the whole day long.
Smugglers will have content that actually includes... smuggling.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Let's take a look at some other highlights from that review, shall we?
"...based on what they showed at E3, they’re not taking the easy way out at all."
"While the dialogue system looks and feels a lot like Mass Effect, it is important to note that it is expanded for MMOs. In that demonstration, there were two members in the group and both had chances to talk, and presumably shape the outcome of the conversation. They’ve made dialogue multiplayer."
"Of course, they also plan to do all the regular MMOish stuff. There will be PvP, raiding, guilds, crafting, etc. But that wasn’t why they had everyone into that room. They wanted to show us that they’ve made a game that looks and feels like Star Wars. It’s epic, it’s full of story and it’s online."
"They’re making a game that, while rooted in what people love about MMOs, adds a truly Bioware experience."
I approve of this vision, with the following addendum:
I can be a wookiee jedi.
I am a hero, not a companion.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I can be a wookiee jedi.
That might be a long shot, since Lucas is against Wookiee Jedi and has mandated no more Furry Jedi in the EU. Whether or not he will impose this on SW:TOR is yet to be seen.
No one said it wasn't going to be fun if you are into games like that.. I just refuse to rent KOTOR 3 at the price of $15 a month, and I feel many like myself just arent' going to buy their story.. The whole lame story epic crap Bioware is shelling out tells me there is an END to the story.. Once you done the storyline you are done.. the Story ends.. There is no end game other then PvP.. Unless Bioware has been untruthful to their word..
That might be a long shot, since Lucas is against Wookiee Jedi and has mandated no more Furry Jedi in the EU. Whether or not he will impose this on SW:TOR is yet to be seen.
And to think, he has a beard.
Surely there's some sort of hypocrisy at work there.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
OMG.. Lets not have hairy jedi's.. Ewok Jedi master? Yikes.. a furry midget in combat.. That would be too much like Yoda on Rogaine
/e shivers
Pedantic diatrabes do not make your core thesis salient. This will be an MMO.
No one said it wasn't going to be fun if you are into games like that.. I just refuse to rent KOTOR 3 at the price of $15 a month, and I feel many like myself just arent' going to buy their story.. The whole lame story epic crap Bioware is shelling out tells me there is an END to the story.. Once you done the storyline you are done.. the Story ends.. There is no end game other then PvP.. Unless Bioware has been untruthful to their word.
Don't attempt to twist words to make Bioware seem dishonest; they've always been upfront about what the game will be; a story-driven journey to end-game where you make the choice to either do the end-game content or reroll and do a different story.
If that ain't the game for you then that's fine; there are other games out there. It's the game for me.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
No one said it wasn't going to be fun if you are into games like that.. I just refuse to rent KOTOR 3 at the price of $15 a month, and I feel many like myself just arent' going to buy their story.. The whole lame story epic crap Bioware is shelling out tells me there is an END to the story.. Once you done the storyline you are done.. the Story ends.. There is no end game other then PvP.. Unless Bioware has been untruthful to their word.
Don't attempt to twist words to make Bioware seem dishonest; they've always been upfront about what the game will be; a story-driven journey to end-game where you make the choice to either do the end-game content or reroll and do a different story.
If that ain't the game for you then that's fine; there are other games out there. It's the game for me. Welcome to KoTOR 3, and 4, and 5, and 6, and 7 in Bioware's own words..
I'd rather not RENT KoTOR each month.. but hey, if you got money to burn.. go for it.. LOL Economy today needs it.. lol
OK I have to ask.. you think end game might be traditional? That would mean that it doesn't matter one BIT what I do from start to finish, I'm doing the same end game as everyone else? Correct? So I guess making choices doesn't really matter.. However I suspect there is no end game, other then PvP.. Once the story ends.. DONE..
Bioware has said that your choices affect your character. That wouldn't have any effect on endgame content.
And you think would take how long? I suspect a true powergamer will complete the entire story arc for their class in less then 2 weeks.. Then what? Make another class and do it again? WoW as over 3,000 quest.. LoTRO has close to that as well.. I suspect TOR will have over 2,000 total quest.. (just split up to 8 classes)
"Hundreds of hours" per class is the quote; at a conservative estimate that's 200 hours (could be much more), so for a powergamer who plays 40hr/week, you're looking at 5 weeks; that's about twice the time it would take the same guy to level a character from 1 to 80 in WoW.
and the problem there is what? the advancement of a toon or alt is optional to the player.. Technically what Bioware is saying.. YOU WILL advance the way we tell you or you dont' level .. Sounds cookie cutter to me..
You've no information to back up that assumption; there's every chance you can grind mobs to max level in TOR too, they haven't said either way.
According to Bioware's own bragging , "all actions preformed by your character will have an effect in the game".. So I have to again ask.. IF Bioware is being truthful, how can a person who has completed a quest REPEAT that quest with others? It's impossible!!! We have seen this with phasing in other games like WoW with Icecrown and Storm Peaks.. This is very anti MMO to have phasing lockouts.. You might as well be playing a single player console rpg then.
As Bioware has released, one of the starting quest is to kill the captain or not kill the capain.. Well I have to ask.. If you KILL the captain Tues morning, and it EFFECTS your character, how can you turn around and group up with a friend Tues afternoon and be involved in that encounter again? Especially if your friend decides to NOT kil the captain.. Think about it bro..
Simple. Two captains.
Welcome to KoTOR 3, and 4, and 5, and 6, and 7 in Bioware's own words..
I'd rather not RENT KoTOR each month.. but hey, if you got money to burn.. go for it.. LOL Economy today needs it.. lol
You're taking that quote out of context; they were referring to the class storylines, each of which is longer (in gaming hours) than an entire KOTOR game.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Don't attempt to twist words to make Bioware seem dishonest; they've always been upfront about what the game will be; a story-driven journey to end-game where you make the choice to either do the end-game content or reroll and do a different story.
If that ain't the game for you then that's fine; there are other games out there. It's the game for me.
Just curious. So, after you re-roll and play through all 8 classes to get all 8 storylines, then what are you going to do? Crafting, will most likely be barely functional at best based on Vogel's stance. I guess you could play through all of the classes again and choose the opposite path through the story. But then what?
Even the book quests took some time in LOTRO because some of them required a group. From the way Bioware has talked you can do "your story" solo. This to me says that it can be done faster than the book quests in LOTRO, and I finished the book quests that were in at launch in 2-3 months. I'd doubt they were going to add the level of content they have for each class' "story" (x2 for paths) on a fairly regular basis.
So...what does one do when they re-rolled and done all the story?
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Don't attempt to twist words to make Bioware seem dishonest; they've always been upfront about what the game will be; a story-driven journey to end-game where you make the choice to either do the end-game content or reroll and do a different story.
If that ain't the game for you then that's fine; there are other games out there. It's the game for me.
Just curious. So, after you re-roll and play through all 8 classes to get all 8 storylines, then what are you going to do? Crafting, will most likely be barely functional at best based on Vogel's stance. I guess you could play through all of the classes again and choose the opposite path through the story. But then what?
Even the book quests took some time in LOTRO because some of them required a group. From the way Bioware has talked you can do "your story" solo. This to me says that it can be done faster than the book quests in LOTRO, and I finished the book quests that were in at launch in 2-3 months. I'd doubt they were going to add the level of content they have for each class' "story" (x2 for paths) on a fairly regular basis.
So...what does one do when they re-rolled and done all the story?
PvP?
Raid?
Socialize?
Just a suggestion. You know you and me don't see eye to eye on Crafting, but for pete's sake. They have -said- multiple times that end-game content will be there. The question is how it will present itself. I have no clue if it will be any good right now.
But it will be there, so please, everyone stop acting as though they aim not to include stuff to do after you're done with the story.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
If people want facts about the game then they should be heading to the official site and reading the FAQ but that doesn't happene because it is so much easier to babble misinformation to get everyone all riled up over nothing.
Don't attempt to twist words to make Bioware seem dishonest; they've always been upfront about what the game will be; a story-driven journey to end-game where you make the choice to either do the end-game content or reroll and do a different story.
If that ain't the game for you then that's fine; there are other games out there. It's the game for me.
Just curious. So, after you re-roll and play through all 8 classes to get all 8 storylines, then what are you going to do? Crafting, will most likely be barely functional at best based on Vogel's stance. I guess you could play through all of the classes again and choose the opposite path through the story. But then what?
Even the book quests took some time in LOTRO because some of them required a group. From the way Bioware has talked you can do "your story" solo. This to me says that it can be done faster than the book quests in LOTRO, and I finished the book quests that were in at launch in 2-3 months. I'd doubt they were going to add the level of content they have for each class' "story" (x2 for paths) on a fairly regular basis.
So...what does one do when they re-rolled and done all the story?
PvP?
Raid?
Socialize?
Just a suggestion. You know you and me don't see eye to eye on Crafting, but for pete's sake. They have -said- multiple times that end-game content will be there. The question is how it will present itself. I have no clue if it will be any good right now.
But it will be there, so please, everyone stop acting as though they aim not to include stuff to do after you're done with the story.
Yeah, and as I have stated up above my beliefs about how "much"..."fleshed out"...will those systems be in so far as to be systems that will keep players around and "gainfully employed/engaged" until more story can be rolled out. I never said those things wouldn't be there (you must be confusing me with some other poster), I just challenge the "level" at which those things will be there. As of right now, based on Vogel and Walton's words, it looks like they'll be present in so far as to say "we have it too". Not in any depth.
I just don't particularly think that it will have any lasting depth or be any good. I fully believe the story parts will be well-done, however, story alone, just like combat alone (ahem, Funcom), will not make a game that keeps the majority of players around for a long time.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Whatever they want do; they can group, raid, PvP, RP/Socialise etc.
Personally, I'm a casual gamer (about 20 hours a week) so 8 classes with "hundreds" of hours of gameplay each will last me about at least 18 months assuming that I don't do a single one of the things I mentioned above.
That ain't bad going.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
What a terrible and pessimistic world you must live in where: "We will have story!" morphs itself into "We will have story! .. but every other aspect of the game will SUCK."
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Aheh. Yeah, I got a bit overzealous there, what with every other poster on this forum blatantly ignoring statements officially made. Sorry about that.
The extent of the endgame is, yeah, an unknown thing right now. Will it be engaging? Will it be enough to keep players playing? All things that are unanswered and yeah, that is the one big worry on my mind.
I don't doubt there will be things to do. Will it be enough though? For now I'd like to think the reason they do not talk about end-game very much is simply that it is not the priority of their PR. As I've said in other posts, it is natural for a company to focus on the things that are unique/different in their game and the things they are known for. Here's to hoping that they do not however, just slap on some lackluster PvP/Raid content and leave it at that.
Story will set the game apart, surely, but it needs other quality content to stay afloat. They said they will have the content, now it's all a matter of the quality.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
What a terrible and pessimistic world you must live in where: "We will have story!" morphs itself into "We will have story! .. but every other aspect of the game will SUCK."
Actually, the world I live in is quite nice, thanks for your interest. I just don't have the blinders on that some have in thinking this title will be the next best thing since sliced bread as some do. I don't recall saying any aspect will "SUCK" however I'm observant enough to read all of what they have said and realize they aren't talking more than a sentence or two about those other aspects. I know that story is their key component they wish to push and should get alot of face time. I'm just also of the belief that those other systems should be getting more face time than they are (which is not to say they should be getting more than the story talk, just more than they are if Bioware had any intention of of doing more than the bare minimum.
Thanks for answering my question. As it appears, from your second response, it is heading down the route of personal criticisms, it's safe to say we have nothing further to talk about.
Cheers.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Aheh. Yeah, I got a bit overzealous there, what with every other poster on this forum blatantly ignoring statements officially made. Sorry about that.
The extent of the endgame is, yeah, an unknown thing right now. Will it be engaging? Will it be enough to keep players playing? All things that are unanswered and yeah, that is the one big worry on my mind.
I don't doubt there will be things to do. Will it be enough though? For now I'd like to think the reason they do not talk about end-game very much is simply that it is not the priority of their PR. As I've said in other posts, it is natural for a company to focus on the things that are unique/different in their game and the things they are known for. Here's to hoping that they do not however, just slap on some lackluster PvP/Raid content and leave it at that.
Story will set the game apart, surely, but it needs other quality content to stay afloat. They said they will have the content, now it's all a matter of the quality.
And, unfortunately, that is the nature of Bioware. they don't talk alot about their games in production until it is very near release. Anyone who has followed a bioware game can attest to that.
If, once the information starts truly flowing, it turns out Vogel was full of it and they do have a robust crafting system, then yeah, I will give this title at leas 30 days. It's just that, for me, everything that has been said (and not said, lol) about crafting and the other systems leaves room for doubt on how much effort they are actually putting into those systems. Granted, we can only speculate, as you suggest, at this point. I just think it does a disservice to only speculate to the positive. So much of that has been done recently with companies who for all purposes had very good reputations. There is a real possibility that more of the same can happen here and that possibility in my view shouldn't be hushed off into some corner. Yes, some folks take it too far like chicken little. I don't advocate that view.
But just as others (myself included) tout Bioware's story telling ability, we also have to realize they haven't really made a game using any of those other "MMO aspects/systems". The doubt I personally express is not that of that they can't do it in great detail. It's more of "will they?" And again, based on words from Vogel's mouth, I don't think they want to. *shrug*
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I just have to throw out there, that the "they" you're referring to have made MMO's before. Bioware hired quite a few devs with MMO backgrounds even placing them in charge of the product.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I just have to throw out there, that the "they" you're referring to have made MMO's before. Bioware hired quite a few devs with MMO backgrounds even placing them in charge of the product.
I know that, lol. I just have to throw out there that in several of my posts I mention, in specific, the names Vogel and Walton. "They" are essentially in charge of this project and "they" are the ones that worry me, lol. My fault for not going into greater detail there. So I'm worried about "their" (Vogel and Walton) direction and "their" (the Bioware originals who haven't done an MMO before) take on implementing what they can of those systems that "they" (again, Vogel and Walton) will let them implement.
I need a crown and coke after that. Or some Captain Morgan on the rocks, lol!
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I have no intent to "discourage disagreement". I just don't have time to disagree at the adolescent level of making personal jabs about others lives in the guise of debate/disagreement. I've disagreed with SingsofDeath countless times and yet we manage to stay on topic and not make personal attacks or analysis of the other. That is part and parsel of your repertoire, it seems, evidence again calling me indignant, lol. Let me reassure you that the last 2 lines I wrote weren't expressing any strong displeasure at your verbal jabs. They were just stating facts. Just the same as the fact that I don't particulary feel to engage in such banter.
So, once again, cheers.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez