Tdog asks: "What is so important that you cannot put 2 hours a night into a video game? My question: What is so important about a video game that you're willing to spend 2 hours a night playing it?
That's easy. I love playing video games. Its my entertainment and how I relax at night after work. Its my hobby.
I don't watch TV, I play video games. I don't watch many movies, I play video games. I don't read many books, I play video games. I don't go out every night, I play video games.
I play hockey and play video games, that is what I enjoy and that is what I use my free time for.
Why can't you put in 2 hours a night? You say you play games as a past time and its your entertainment but you cannot put in 2 hours a night? Sounds like you have other hobbies that use up your free time, maybe gaming is not for you.
And here I thought all those "I want everything and I want it now" casuals were bad, now appearently there's a new breed of ultra casual players that want everything without even playing the game, advancement thru doing nothing.
This crowd is a gold mine to someone willing to create a company that caters to them, they buy your game for $50, instead of software, there's a picture of a max lvl character inside, with a little certificate that says "Congratulations! Thanks to all your hard work not playing our game, you are now the winner! Just like all those power gamers who didn't play the game!".
They can just toss the box in the trash afterwards, feeling good about themselves for being awesome gamers.
This whole thread reads like a marketing experiment for this Alganon game.. Hi , I like x and y in my mmo's, I bet there's alot of people like that..oh would you look at that, I just found this awesome game named Alganon that doas x and y really well. *add random arguments to sucker people into a discussion while mentioning Alganon every 2nd sentence* *profit*
Then this is good... lets get all this strange people that want to play an MMO like a single game go to that Alganon game and leave us alone.
Tdog asks: "What is so important that you cannot put 2 hours a night into a video game? My question: What is so important about a video game that you're willing to spend 2 hours a night playing it?
That's easy. I love playing video games. Its my entertainment and how I relax at night after work. Its my hobby.
I don't watch TV, I play video games. I don't watch many movies, I play video games. I don't read many books, I play video games. I don't go out every night, I play video games.
I play hockey and play video games, that is what I enjoy and that is what I use my free time for.
Why can't you put in 2 hours a night? You say you play games as a past time and its your entertainment but you cannot put in 2 hours a night? Sounds like you have other hobbies that use up your free time, maybe gaming is not for you.
I use my free time for things like : talking to my wife, going over to my son's house for a barbecue, mowing my acre of land, watering my trees, taking care of my mother, attending to the needs of and playing with my 8 grandchildren, talking my other adult children through various things on the phone or visiting them, working on or cleaning the house, washing clothes, dishes, cars, vacuuming the house and the cars, buying groceries and various household items, taking care of our pet birds, fish, and dog; keeping pesticide spread around (we live in the country), shooing off wild dogs and cats, picking up fallen tree branches and otherwise tending the yards, cleaning up the carport and the storage shed, repairing household appliances and tools, visiting friends, running my mother around on her errands, running my wife around on hers, eating out with family and friends, attending various community functions, working and promoting my side jobs; helping out co-workers with various personal projects, cooking, etc. Meanwhile, I have a full time job and a good secondary job, as well as various investments.
The difference between you and I is that I don't begrudge you the fact that you have games that suit your available time and playstyle, but you don't even want them making a game that suits mine, even if there is a market for it.
Get over yourself. Just because some game company is going to built a suitable game for **my** playstyle and available time doesn't mean civilization is going to come to a screeching halt. It just means that some of us have other things to do besides play hockey and video games.
Tdog asks: "What is so important that you cannot put 2 hours a night into a video game? My question: What is so important about a video game that you're willing to spend 2 hours a night playing it?
That's easy. I love playing video games. Its my entertainment and how I relax at night after work. Its my hobby.
I don't watch TV, I play video games. I don't watch many movies, I play video games. I don't read many books, I play video games. I don't go out every night, I play video games.
I play hockey and play video games, that is what I enjoy and that is what I use my free time for.
Why can't you put in 2 hours a night? You say you play games as a past time and its your entertainment but you cannot put in 2 hours a night? Sounds like you have other hobbies that use up your free time, maybe gaming is not for you.
I use my free time for things like : talking to my wife, going over to my son's house for a barbecue, mowing my acre of land, watering my trees, taking care of my mother, attending to the needs of and playing with my 8 grandchildren, talking my other adult children through various things on the phone or visiting them, working on or cleaning the house, washing clothes, dishes, cars, vacuuming the house and the cars, buying groceries and various household items, taking care of our pet birds, fish, and dog; keeping pesticide spread around (we live in the country), shooing off wild dogs and cats, picking up fallen tree branches and otherwise tending the yards, cleaning up the carport and the storage shed, repairing household appliances and tools, visiting friends, running my mother around on her errands, running my wife around on hers, eating out with family and friends, attending various community functions, working and promoting my side jobs; helping out co-workers with various personal projects, cooking, etc. Meanwhile, I have a full time job and a good secondary job, as well as various investments.
The difference between you and I is that I don't begrudge you the fact that you have games that suit your available time and playstyle, but you don't even want them making a game that suits mine, even if there is a market for it.
Get over yourself. Just because some game company is going to built a suitable game for **my** playstyle and available time doesn't mean civilization is going to come to a screeching halt. It just means that some of us have other things to do besides play hockey and video games.
I said free time, not time you spend doing chores. Everyone has chores. I have chores, I own a house at 27. I talk to my parents daily, they live in another state, I cut the lawn, clean the house, make dinner, ect.
Its not some gaming company, its almost every gaming company. They are all catering to your playstyle. The casuals that do not want to put any effort into anything. That want free rewards because they think they are to busy or to important to put in any real time playing a video game. I do not have any games that fit my playstyle andd I have not since EQ1 was really EQ1 and not a shadow of what it used to be.
EvE is really the only game on the market that even comes close to having challenging content in it and like I said earlier it is not a game for me.
There are no games for my playstyle,,,,, name one that gives a challenge. That makes the journey fun, that rewards smart gamers. The problem I have with you is that you do not understand that time means nothing. Its all about effort. My dad played EQ1 and only played maybe 10 hours a week if that and he loved the game..... He loved it because it allowed him to escape and do something fun and rewarding. He never had the best gear, or items or even a max level character but he loved it. He played WoW for less then a month and quit because it was boring and easy.
He is as casual a gamer as you can find.... TIME MEANS LITTLE, its about effort and rewarding that effort.
You could put in 100 hours a week into the old EQ1 and still not get the best rewards or gear, you had to be smart. You had to learn the game, learn your class and OMG talk to other people.
I am just sick of the MMO genre catering to the stupid gamers, the gamers that want to turn off their brains to play video games. That is what movies and TV are for. Not gaming. The mainstream players are ruining a once great genre for the rest of us that like the old sytle of gaming, the one that reward players for effort, not time.
The simple solution for these type of players (and many different types of players for that matter) is a MMO without levels and gear that doesn't make you stronger. Maybe new spells as the way of showing progression, but all players able to play with each other (meaning no OP spells, or very limited amount). Sadly almost every developer goes the gear route, and not gameplay.
If someone made a game that was just nothing but fun, we wouldn't have these problems. Bots, gold farmers, etc would not exist (or at least not to this extent) if MMOs weren't such a time sink. Don;t get me wrong, I love MMOs and the idea of playing in a world filled with real people... but let's be real. 80% of the content in games is made so you spend a retarded amount of time. Even the most casual of MMOs (at least what I played) requires more grind than straight up fun.
As for the OP's idea of leveling while you sleep... I don't agree with it. I feel as though people shouldn't even feel that way about a game. That's the major problem with MMOs imo. Until this changes we will have players with attitudes like the OP's, bots, and gold sellers.
I am just sick of the MMO genre catering to the stupid gamers, the gamers that want to turn off their brains to play video games. That is what movies and TV are for. Not gaming. The mainstream players are ruining a once great genre for the rest of us that like the old sytle of gaming, the one that reward players for effort, not time.
Unfortunately for us old school gamers, the above is where the money is these days, making ez mode, buy your way to the top, level offline to save us bandwidth glorified chatrooms, where hoards of precious snowflakes with add, from the land of "everyone wins, there's no losers", armed with their parents credit card, can spam chat with mindless text speak while pushing a few buttons 20 min a day.
Add some flashy moves and anime-style graphics, and you've got a minimum effort, maximum profit winner on your hands.
Tdog asks: "What is so important that you cannot put 2 hours a night into a video game? My question: What is so important about a video game that you're willing to spend 2 hours a night playing it?
If you don't want to play the game why are you buying it? Seriously save your money. No one is making you level a character. Go do what you want to do because you have obviously stated it isn't playing video games. You just want to log in once in a while and see where your little digital character is at and log out. Why buy a game to do that? Very illogical. Do you realize that if the game you described exist it would be a vacant ghost town? Why log in and play when the game is leveling everyone else? Why be interested in playing to the end of the game knowing there isn't nothing to look forward to doing with your friends online? I would rather just play on my own time in a single player game.
Do you buy single player games also and try to find ways to skip through the game you bought? Silly.
Once again, when you're trying to talk someone out of wanting what they want, you've already lost the argument. I know what I enjoy, and what I want. Whether it is silly or illogical to you is irrelevant; it is silly and illogical to me the way current MMOGs are set up; it is silly and illogical to me to play video games where that kind of time and effort is required - but that's fine with me, because I don't expect people to behave in a logical manner, or in a non-silly way, People enjoy what they enjoy; as long as it isn't hurting anyone else, and a company provides them a product that meets their desires, what do I care? Good for them.
I hope a developer creates whatever kind of difficult MMOG you want, because I don't begrudge others getting what they want, whether or not I can understand it.
In my opinion, you are too concerned with how other players view your character. Who cares if you are 2nd rate with 3rd rate gear? Those concepts shouldn't even exist if you are having fun playing the game. If the only fun part of a multiplayer game is trying to keep up with everyone else, coveting their gear and stuff, then I honestly feel sorry for you. Play the game at your own pace and say to hell with what anyone else thinks about your gear.
I'm concerned with how much of the game content is available to me when I am paying exactly the same amount as everyone else. Why should I pay to play a game that deliberately codes my playstyle out of all of the top end content? Why should I be satisfied with that? If you bought a ticket to a concert, and paid as much as everyone else, and when you got to the concert you were told that because you hadn't listened to 4 hours of the band's music every day, you were going to have to be satisfied with the worst seats, while those that listened to the band's music 8 hrs a day would get a back stage pass ... would you be satisfied with that?
If you would, then I feel sorry for you. I'm not going to "find a way to enjoy" a game that does that; it's my money, and I'll spend it on the company that creates the game that suits me and my playstyle. If it's not your cup of tea, then don't buy it and don't play it, but please don't tell me what I should and should not enjoy, and should and should not be satisified with in any game I consider buying. You buy and play the games you enjoy for whatever reason you enjoy them, and I'll agree not to try and psychoanalyze your personality and tell you why you're a bad person for it.
In my opinion, you are too concerned with how other players view your character. Who cares if you are 2nd rate with 3rd rate gear? Those concepts shouldn't even exist if you are having fun playing the game. If the only fun part of a multiplayer game is trying to keep up with everyone else, coveting their gear and stuff, then I honestly feel sorry for you. Play the game at your own pace and say to hell with what anyone else thinks about your gear.
I'm concerned with how much of the game content is available to me when I am paying exactly the same amount as everyone else. Why should I pay to play a game that deliberately codes my playstyle out of all of the top end content? Why should I be satisfied with that? If you bought a ticket to a concert, and paid as much as everyone else, and when you got to the concert you were told that because you hadn't listened to 4 hours of the band's music every day, you were going to have to be satisfied with the worst seats, while those that listened to the band's music 8 hrs a day would get a back stage pass ... would you be satisfied with that?
If you would, then I feel sorry for you. I'm not going to "find a way to enjoy" a game that does that; it's my money, and I'll spend it on the company that creates the game that suits me and my playstyle. If it's not your cup of tea, then don't buy it and don't play it, but please don't tell me what I should and should not enjoy, and should and should not be satisified with in any game I consider buying. You buy and play the games you enjoy for whatever reason you enjoy them, and I'll agree not to try and psychoanalyze your personality and tell you why you're a bad person for it.
Are you talking about Raiiding content?
Lots of people play games to the max level, then quit when the raiding starts because it's not their thing. If fact, I think that's the majority of players in subscription based games.
Yeah. If the game is designed so that the best content can only be ahieved via raids (including rewards, attributes, gear, and endgame scenarios designed by developers), and I'm not going to raid, why should I invest my money into it? It would be like buying Diablo even though it has a sticker on it that says "north american players cannot experience end-game content". Why shold I buy it? I'm being deliberately disrespected by the developers.
Yeah. If the game is designed so that the best content can only be ahieved via raids (including rewards, attributes, gear, and endgame scenarios designed by developers), and I'm not going to raid, why should I invest my money into it? It would be like buying Diablo even though it has a sticker on it that says "north american players cannot experience end-game content". Why shold I buy it? I'm being deliberately disrespected by the developers.
Nobody disrespects you. The developers don't think about you. The world doesn't revolve around you.
The fact, that raiders have acsess to the better ebnd-game gear is precisey because devs need them to stay and spend time in end-game, to have their money. Don't like it - don't play it. Saying that devs should cater to your needs and wishes, just because you have limited time is pure undistilled egoism. A lot of single-player games, especially in the previous generations had some additional stuff, aside from the game completition - missions, costumes, content, what have you. Not everyone had time, patience and commitment to unlock them, but the ones who did earned it. If the same stuff is available in the same amount of, say, days for guys playing five hours a week and and guys playing twenty, then there's something wrong with the game.
You say, you're punised for playing less. Devs already gave you double experience bonus in almost all games, for being offline. Take it further and guys who actually invest time in the game will be punished, not just feel that way.
MMOs are in their core time-consuming. If anything, devs should increase the quality and usefulness and crafting - the only solution, that can potentially satisfy both sides. And I doubt it'll work, anyway.
I have work, uni and a girlfriend. And I still can scrape 10-15 hours a week for gaming. And I never whine, that someone can achieve something faster, than me. Get over it.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Who needs stale MMO's? Single player PC gaming still is as good as ever. Co op online gaming is coming back in a huge way thanks to Left 4 Dead. Co op in the near future for Pc gaming going to offer some mind blowing dx10 experiences for small groups of players. Hence why the new Star Wars MMO will be small group for instanced story you advance through borrow from the co op experience.
Who needs stale MMO's? Single player PC gaming still is as good as ever. Co op online gaming is coming back in a huge way thanks to Left 4 Dead. Co op in the near future for Pc gaming going to offer some mind blowing dx10 experiences for small groups of players. Hence why the new Star Wars MMO will be small group for instanced story you advance through borrow from the co op experience.
That's fine with me as long as there isn't a subscription fee to play it.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
In my opinion, you are too concerned with how other players view your character. Who cares if you are 2nd rate with 3rd rate gear? Those concepts shouldn't even exist if you are having fun playing the game. If the only fun part of a multiplayer game is trying to keep up with everyone else, coveting their gear and stuff, then I honestly feel sorry for you. Play the game at your own pace and say to hell with what anyone else thinks about your gear.
I'm concerned with how much of the game content is available to me when I am paying exactly the same amount as everyone else. Why should I pay to play a game that deliberately codes my playstyle out of all of the top end content? Why should I be satisfied with that? If you bought a ticket to a concert, and paid as much as everyone else, and when you got to the concert you were told that because you hadn't listened to 4 hours of the band's music every day, you were going to have to be satisfied with the worst seats, while those that listened to the band's music 8 hrs a day would get a back stage pass ... would you be satisfied with that?
If you would, then I feel sorry for you. I'm not going to "find a way to enjoy" a game that does that; it's my money, and I'll spend it on the company that creates the game that suits me and my playstyle. If it's not your cup of tea, then don't buy it and don't play it, but please don't tell me what I should and should not enjoy, and should and should not be satisified with in any game I consider buying. You buy and play the games you enjoy for whatever reason you enjoy them, and I'll agree not to try and psychoanalyze your personality and tell you why you're a bad person for it.
I wasn't trying to insult you or your playstyle, I was simply questioning your motives. You seem overly concerned with what everyone else has instead of just doing your own thing and having fun. I was just curious as to why that is. Also, if I liked the band enough, I would still go see them regardless of what everyone else has. Feel sorry for me if you like.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
You would enjoy WoW... Its pretty much easy enough for you.
I'm not wanting an "easy" game. I'm wanting one that doesn't requires uberguild-raid levels of time and commitment to achieve end-game rewards. IOW, a solo instance that takes 30 minutes or an hour to complete doesn't have to be "easy"; it might take me 10 or 20 tries to figure it out, bring what I need, develop a strategy to beat it. That wouldn't be "easy", but it also wouldn't require that I sit at my computer for 5-10 hrs a night, 5 days a week, finding groups or waiting while someone organizes a raid or having to commit to some guild rules.
However, on further reading, it does appear that Alganon is not using the study system as I thought, and so my wait for a suitable game continues. Perhaps FF14.
I wasn't trying to insult you or your playstyle, I was simply questioning your motives. You seem overly concerned with what everyone else has instead of just doing your own thing and having fun. I was just curious as to why that is. Also, if I liked the band enough, I would still go see them regardless of what everyone else has. Feel sorry for me if you like.
What difference does it make what my motives are? If my motives are jealousy and greed, so what? Are those characteristics that game companies don't market towards? Don't most MMOGs market their games with super-sexy, overly-endowed avatars that appeal to the base instincts of young, male players? Should others have their lust, and greed and jealousy for items or a sense of superiority served by the gaming communtiy, while mine, and those like me, have their profitable character flaws and desires left un-serviced?
At some point, some an intelligent game marketer is going to realize that there's a reason people BUIY maxed-out characters in MMOGs, BUY gold from 3rd-party services, use BOT macros to advance their characters, and will pay services to level their character or take them on raids; and, there's a reason those people don't "satisfy" themselves with 2nd best or 2nd rate, and don't play single-player games on their computers at home: They want to compete in an MMOG setting, have the opportunity to engage top end, end-game rewards and content, and they don't want to get there by investing countless hours of personal time banging away on the keys.
If that is a lementable character flaw, so what? So is drinking, smoking, eating fattening fast food, gambling, and buying gold-plated bathroom fixtures while others starve to death. So is a male player creating a female avatar and sliding the "chest" slider all the way to one side. Shall we just stop making products for them? Shall we not make anyone any products if they can't first describe their desire for that product in a way that is acceptable to our pesonal code of ethics or morality?
You ever stop to think that it can also be considered a character flaw to spend that kind of time in a video game? And it might be a similar ethical question as what a tobacco company faces to provide a game where such an addiction is promoted and serviced? Why should the "character flaw" of video game addiction and spending massive amounts of time online be serviced and pandered to, and not my "character flaw" of not wanting to spend massive amounts of time online?
Do you guys even realize the logical incoherence of your arguments? Are you really going to argue that not wanting to spend massive amounts of time in an online game, so design us a game where we don't have to, is a unique, unmarketable and unserviceable character flaw?
In Asia they pay for time they play, this could be a way of solving the OPs problem with paying the same price as everyone else without playing as much.
I wasn't trying to insult you or your playstyle, I was simply questioning your motives. You seem overly concerned with what everyone else has instead of just doing your own thing and having fun. I was just curious as to why that is. Also, if I liked the band enough, I would still go see them regardless of what everyone else has. Feel sorry for me if you like.
What difference does it make what my motives are? If my motives are jealousy and greed, so what? Are those characteristics that game companies don't market towards? Don't most MMOGs market their games with super-sexy, overly-endowed avatars that appeal to the base instincts of young, male players? Should others have their lust, and greed and jealousy for items or a sense of superiority served by the gaming communtiy, while mine, and those like me, have their profitable character flaws and desires left un-serviced?
At some point, some an intelligent game marketer is going to realize that there's a reason people BUIY maxed-out characters in MMOGs, BUY gold from 3rd-party services, use BOT macros to advance their characters, and will pay services to level their character or take them on raids; and, there's a reason those people don't "satisfy" themselves with 2nd best or 2nd rate, and don't play single-player games on their computers at home: They want to compete in an MMOG setting, have the opportunity to engage top end, end-game rewards and content, and they don't want to get there by investing countless hours of personal time banging away on the keys.
If that is a lementable character flaw, so what? So is drinking, smoking, eating fattening fast food, gambling, and buying gold-plated bathroom fixtures while others starve to death. So is a male player creating a female avatar and sliding the "chest" slider all the way to one side. Shall we just stop making products for them? Shall we not make anyone any products if they can't first describe their desire for that product in a way that is acceptable to our pesonal code of ethics or morality?
You ever stop to think that it can also be considered a character flaw to spend that kind of time in a video game? And it might be a similar ethical question as what a tobacco company faces to provide a game where such an addiction is promoted and serviced? Why should the "character flaw" of video game addiction and spending massive amounts of time online be serviced and pandered to, and not my "character flaw" of not wanting to spend massive amounts of time online?
Do you guys even realize the logical incoherence of your arguments? Are you really going to argue that not wanting to spend massive amounts of time in an online game, so design us a game where we don't have to, is a unique, unmarketable and unserviceable character flaw?
It's not because it's a flaw, a sin or any other bullcrap, youre trying to spew. It's because you're not playing alone. And applying your kind of rules to everyone means unfair stuff waiting to happen, to those around.
It's like buying a degree at the university. A lot of people in Russia do that, do we legalise it?
A lot of people do heroin, should we legalise it as well? It's your personal choice, it's your personal quirk! Who cares, if you destroy yourself, right?
Wrong. Stop being egoistic and consider all sides of the conflict. MMORPGs, by their design, are a time-consuming experience - that's what keeping them alive. If you're nt willing to accept it, you have to move on.
Let's expore your hypotetical situation. Dev gives in. You can level up with your pace in two months. You can get and explore all content in three, including the months you got to the top. Having nothing left to do, you leave.
50 bucks for a box, plus 30 bucks for two extra months of play. Dev is getting 80 bucks from you, and even less from a power-gamer, who had more time to invest. Uh-oh, suddenly, the dev is broke. That's exactly what happened to WAR. Nice job breaking it, hero.
And don't get me started on lasting and oftentimes unpredictable in-game consequences.
It's getting ridiculos. Do you want to enjoy the game, all aspects of it, or do you want those shiny pieces of raiding gear? You know how many things there are to do, even solo, in a well-designed MMORPG? Things that can be done with a limited time scheldue? Crafting, exploring, socialising, role-playing, price manipulating... Why do you care, about being second-class citizen? Why do you want to be the same class as those "no-lifes" with their huge e-peens?
Oh yeah. Because you're egoistic and care about your e-peen more, than your enjoyment.
What a surprise, he lied.
EDIT: I especially love the title of the thread. "NOT playing a MMORPG, until...". Really. Demand people to do things for you, or else you won't associate with them. Sure, that'll take you a long way in life...
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Tdog asks: "What is so important that you cannot put 2 hours a night into a video game? My question: What is so important about a video game that you're willing to spend 2 hours a night playing it?
tbh i stopped reading here. You need to gtfo out of gaming if you cannot find a reason to play just 2 hours for one night. What kind of gamer says this? Honestly i think you need to find a different hobby or something because gaming isn't what you perceive it to be. If you dont have enough fun in a video game to spend more then 1 hour then you should quit wasting your money.
And as for the "i dont want to play single player games because there are no other players" comment. Why do you want to play a game with other players if all you want to do is solo? In the op you mentioned you didnt want to have to group or join a guild. Guilds and groups are a major part of socialization in a game, despite what kind of poor excuse you have, whats the point in playing a MMORPG if you're just going to solo and not compete with anybody else? Or socialize with them for that matter....
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
I wasn't trying to insult you or your playstyle, I was simply questioning your motives. You seem overly concerned with what everyone else has instead of just doing your own thing and having fun. I was just curious as to why that is. Also, if I liked the band enough, I would still go see them regardless of what everyone else has. Feel sorry for me if you like.
What difference does it make what my motives are? If my motives are jealousy and greed, so what? Are those characteristics that game companies don't market towards? Don't most MMOGs market their games with super-sexy, overly-endowed avatars that appeal to the base instincts of young, male players? Should others have their lust, and greed and jealousy for items or a sense of superiority served by the gaming communtiy, while mine, and those like me, have their profitable character flaws and desires left un-serviced?
At some point, some an intelligent game marketer is going to realize that there's a reason people BUIY maxed-out characters in MMOGs, BUY gold from 3rd-party services, use BOT macros to advance their characters, and will pay services to level their character or take them on raids; and, there's a reason those people don't "satisfy" themselves with 2nd best or 2nd rate, and don't play single-player games on their computers at home: They want to compete in an MMOG setting, have the opportunity to engage top end, end-game rewards and content, and they don't want to get there by investing countless hours of personal time banging away on the keys.
If that is a lementable character flaw, so what? So is drinking, smoking, eating fattening fast food, gambling, and buying gold-plated bathroom fixtures while others starve to death. So is a male player creating a female avatar and sliding the "chest" slider all the way to one side. Shall we just stop making products for them? Shall we not make anyone any products if they can't first describe their desire for that product in a way that is acceptable to our pesonal code of ethics or morality?
You ever stop to think that it can also be considered a character flaw to spend that kind of time in a video game? And it might be a similar ethical question as what a tobacco company faces to provide a game where such an addiction is promoted and serviced? Why should the "character flaw" of video game addiction and spending massive amounts of time online be serviced and pandered to, and not my "character flaw" of not wanting to spend massive amounts of time online?
Do you guys even realize the logical incoherence of your arguments? Are you really going to argue that not wanting to spend massive amounts of time in an online game, so design us a game where we don't have to, is a unique, unmarketable and unserviceable character flaw?
It's not because it's a flaw, a sin or any other bullcrap, youre trying to spew. It's because you're not playing alone. And applying your kind of rules to everyone means unfair stuff waiting to happen, to those around.
It's like buying a degree at the university. A lot of people in Russia do that, do we legalise it?
A lot of people do heroin, should we legalise it as well? It's your personal choice, it's your personal quirk! Who cares, if you destroy yourself, right?
Wrong. Stop being egoistic and consider all sides of the conflict. MMORPGs, by their design, are a time-consuming experience - that's what keeping them alive. If you're nt willing to accept it, you have to move on.
Let's expore your hypotetical situation. Dev gives in. You can level up with your pace in two months. You can get and explore all content in three, including the months you got to the top. Having nothing left to do, you leave.
50 bucks for a box, plus 30 bucks for two extra months of play. Dev is getting 80 bucks from you, and even less from a power-gamer, who had more time to invest. Uh-oh, suddenly, the dev is broke. That's exactly what happened to WAR. Nice job breaking it, hero.
And don't get me started on lasting and oftentimes unpredictable in-game consequences.
It's getting ridiculos. Do you want to enjoy the game, all aspects of it, or do you want those shiny pieces of raiding gear? You know how many things there are to do, even solo, in a well-designed MMORPG? Things that can be done with a limited time scheldue? Crafting, exploring, socialising, role-playing, price manipulating... Why do you care, about being second-class citizen? Why do you want to be the same class as those "no-lifes" with their huge e-peens?
Oh yeah. Because you're egoistic and care about your e-peen more, than your enjoyment.
What a surprise, he lied.
EDIT: I especially love the title of the thread. "NOT playing a MMORPG, until...". Really. Demand people to do things for you, or else you won't associate with them. Sure, that'll take you a long way in life...
Unfortunately, none of this is a rebuttal to my argument. I'm not asking for anything illegal, unprogrammable, or unmarketable; your argument is that I shouldn't want what I want, and I shouldn't enjoy what I enjoy. MMOGs are not necessarily any of the things you mention, other than being a community-based game. They don't necessarily require massive online time or raid-style organizational efforts; they don't necessarily reward grouping and raiding with superior content and rewards. They are that way only because they are programmed that way, because the programmers believe they are going to tap into a profitable market. And yes, they have. I'm not arguing that.
My argument is that there is another likely, profitable, largely-untapped market niche, where the soloer and casual player who want to play in an MMO format and compete without investing personal computer time are equalized through innovative coding with anyone else who plays, including powergamer and guilds. This market is evidenced by the things I listed - people that buy maxed out character accounts, pay for leveling services, and use bots to level characters, as well as other games that are basically single-player games you can play online with or against others.
You're argument is that I'm a bad guy for wanting a game like that. Okay. I'm a bad guy. So what? The market is still there and it's still legal. At some point, some bright company of developers is going to figure out that a casual and solo-oriented MMOG that is dedicated to casuals and soloers can tap that casual and soloer market in a way that other MMOGs to date cannot, because they do not make casuals and soloers EQUAL to powergamers and guilds. Such a game can be made; it is entirely legal; and it will without a doubt have greater appeal to casuals and soloers than any MMOG currently on the market.
Your argument is that people that play such games have character flaws. Boo hoo. So?
I wasn't trying to insult you or your playstyle, I was simply questioning your motives. You seem overly concerned with what everyone else has instead of just doing your own thing and having fun. I was just curious as to why that is. Also, if I liked the band enough, I would still go see them regardless of what everyone else has. Feel sorry for me if you like.
What difference does it make what my motives are? If my motives are jealousy and greed, so what? Are those characteristics that game companies don't market towards? Don't most MMOGs market their games with super-sexy, overly-endowed avatars that appeal to the base instincts of young, male players? Should others have their lust, and greed and jealousy for items or a sense of superiority served by the gaming communtiy, while mine, and those like me, have their profitable character flaws and desires left un-serviced?
At some point, some an intelligent game marketer is going to realize that there's a reason people BUIY maxed-out characters in MMOGs, BUY gold from 3rd-party services, use BOT macros to advance their characters, and will pay services to level their character or take them on raids; and, there's a reason those people don't "satisfy" themselves with 2nd best or 2nd rate, and don't play single-player games on their computers at home: They want to compete in an MMOG setting, have the opportunity to engage top end, end-game rewards and content, and they don't want to get there by investing countless hours of personal time banging away on the keys.
If that is a lementable character flaw, so what? So is drinking, smoking, eating fattening fast food, gambling, and buying gold-plated bathroom fixtures while others starve to death. So is a male player creating a female avatar and sliding the "chest" slider all the way to one side. Shall we just stop making products for them? Shall we not make anyone any products if they can't first describe their desire for that product in a way that is acceptable to our pesonal code of ethics or morality?
You ever stop to think that it can also be considered a character flaw to spend that kind of time in a video game? And it might be a similar ethical question as what a tobacco company faces to provide a game where such an addiction is promoted and serviced? Why should the "character flaw" of video game addiction and spending massive amounts of time online be serviced and pandered to, and not my "character flaw" of not wanting to spend massive amounts of time online?
Do you guys even realize the logical incoherence of your arguments? Are you really going to argue that not wanting to spend massive amounts of time in an online game, so design us a game where we don't have to, is a unique, unmarketable and unserviceable character flaw?
It's not because it's a flaw, a sin or any other bullcrap, youre trying to spew. It's because you're not playing alone. And applying your kind of rules to everyone means unfair stuff waiting to happen, to those around.
It's like buying a degree at the university. A lot of people in Russia do that, do we legalise it?
A lot of people do heroin, should we legalise it as well? It's your personal choice, it's your personal quirk! Who cares, if you destroy yourself, right?
Wrong. Stop being egoistic and consider all sides of the conflict. MMORPGs, by their design, are a time-consuming experience - that's what keeping them alive. If you're nt willing to accept it, you have to move on.
Let's expore your hypotetical situation. Dev gives in. You can level up with your pace in two months. You can get and explore all content in three, including the months you got to the top. Having nothing left to do, you leave.
50 bucks for a box, plus 30 bucks for two extra months of play. Dev is getting 80 bucks from you, and even less from a power-gamer, who had more time to invest. Uh-oh, suddenly, the dev is broke. That's exactly what happened to WAR. Nice job breaking it, hero.
And don't get me started on lasting and oftentimes unpredictable in-game consequences.
It's getting ridiculos. Do you want to enjoy the game, all aspects of it, or do you want those shiny pieces of raiding gear? You know how many things there are to do, even solo, in a well-designed MMORPG? Things that can be done with a limited time scheldue? Crafting, exploring, socialising, role-playing, price manipulating... Why do you care, about being second-class citizen? Why do you want to be the same class as those "no-lifes" with their huge e-peens?
Oh yeah. Because you're egoistic and care about your e-peen more, than your enjoyment.
What a surprise, he lied.
EDIT: I especially love the title of the thread. "NOT playing a MMORPG, until...". Really. Demand people to do things for you, or else you won't associate with them. Sure, that'll take you a long way in life...
Unfortunately, none of this is a rebuttal to my argument. I'm not asking for anything illegal, unprogrammable, or unmarketable; your argument is that I shouldn't want what I want, and I shouldn't enjoy what I enjoy. MMOGs are not necessarily any of the things you mention, other than being a community-based game. They don't necessarily require massive online time or raid-style organizational efforts; they don't necessarily reward grouping and raiding with superior content and rewards. They are that way only because they are programmed that way, because the programmers believe they are going to tap into a profitable market. And yes, they have. I'm not arguing that.
My argument is that there is another likely, profitable, largely-untapped market niche, where the soloer and casual player who want to play in an MMO format and compete without investing personal computer time are equalized through innovative coding with anyone else who plays, including powergamer and guilds. This market is evidenced by the things I listed - people that buy maxed out character accounts, pay for leveling services, and use bots to level characters, as well as other games that are basically single-player games you can play online with or against others.
You're argument is that I'm a bad guy for wanting a game like that. Okay. I'm a bad guy. So what? The market is still there and it's still legal. At some point, some bright company of developers is going to figure out that a casual and solo-oriented MMOG that is dedicated to casuals and soloers can tap that casual and soloer market in a way that other MMOGs to date cannot, because they do not make casuals and soloers EQUAL to powergamers and guilds. Such a game can be made; it is entirely legal; and it will without a doubt have greater appeal to casuals and soloers than any MMOG currently on the market.
Your argument is that people that play such games have character flaws. Boo hoo. So?
And you completely ignore all of my points, while rambling about the same thing.
Sorry, buty you, sir, are beyond help. You don't need an argument or reason, nor do you care about other sides. All you care is your own momentary enjoyment. Lucky for you, there ARE a lot of people like you. And yes, this thinking is flawed.
The problem, however, is that you're a bad market - utterly unpredictable, unreliable and unsatisfyable. Just like some of the more radical "hardcore" players, only on the opposite side of the spectrum. But hey, someone just might try!
This discussion is pointless, you want people to agree with you and at least one developer to bend to your needs, not an intelligent discussion. Hope it works out, in the end, without massive property damage. Good day to you.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Comments
Tdog asks: "What is so important that you cannot put 2 hours a night into a video game?
My question: What is so important about a video game that you're willing to spend 2 hours a night playing it?
That's easy. I love playing video games. Its my entertainment and how I relax at night after work. Its my hobby.
I don't watch TV, I play video games. I don't watch many movies, I play video games. I don't read many books, I play video games. I don't go out every night, I play video games.
I play hockey and play video games, that is what I enjoy and that is what I use my free time for.
Why can't you put in 2 hours a night? You say you play games as a past time and its your entertainment but you cannot put in 2 hours a night? Sounds like you have other hobbies that use up your free time, maybe gaming is not for you.
Sooner or Later
And here I thought all those "I want everything and I want it now" casuals were bad, now appearently there's a new breed of ultra casual players that want everything without even playing the game, advancement thru doing nothing.
This crowd is a gold mine to someone willing to create a company that caters to them, they buy your game for $50, instead of software, there's a picture of a max lvl character inside, with a little certificate that says "Congratulations! Thanks to all your hard work not playing our game, you are now the winner! Just like all those power gamers who didn't play the game!".
They can just toss the box in the trash afterwards, feeling good about themselves for being awesome gamers.
Then this is good... lets get all this strange people that want to play an MMO like a single game go to that Alganon game and leave us alone.
That's easy. I love playing video games. Its my entertainment and how I relax at night after work. Its my hobby.
I don't watch TV, I play video games. I don't watch many movies, I play video games. I don't read many books, I play video games. I don't go out every night, I play video games.
I play hockey and play video games, that is what I enjoy and that is what I use my free time for.
Why can't you put in 2 hours a night? You say you play games as a past time and its your entertainment but you cannot put in 2 hours a night? Sounds like you have other hobbies that use up your free time, maybe gaming is not for you.
I use my free time for things like : talking to my wife, going over to my son's house for a barbecue, mowing my acre of land, watering my trees, taking care of my mother, attending to the needs of and playing with my 8 grandchildren, talking my other adult children through various things on the phone or visiting them, working on or cleaning the house, washing clothes, dishes, cars, vacuuming the house and the cars, buying groceries and various household items, taking care of our pet birds, fish, and dog; keeping pesticide spread around (we live in the country), shooing off wild dogs and cats, picking up fallen tree branches and otherwise tending the yards, cleaning up the carport and the storage shed, repairing household appliances and tools, visiting friends, running my mother around on her errands, running my wife around on hers, eating out with family and friends, attending various community functions, working and promoting my side jobs; helping out co-workers with various personal projects, cooking, etc. Meanwhile, I have a full time job and a good secondary job, as well as various investments.
The difference between you and I is that I don't begrudge you the fact that you have games that suit your available time and playstyle, but you don't even want them making a game that suits mine, even if there is a market for it.
Get over yourself. Just because some game company is going to built a suitable game for **my** playstyle and available time doesn't mean civilization is going to come to a screeching halt. It just means that some of us have other things to do besides play hockey and video games.
That's easy. I love playing video games. Its my entertainment and how I relax at night after work. Its my hobby.
I don't watch TV, I play video games. I don't watch many movies, I play video games. I don't read many books, I play video games. I don't go out every night, I play video games.
I play hockey and play video games, that is what I enjoy and that is what I use my free time for.
Why can't you put in 2 hours a night? You say you play games as a past time and its your entertainment but you cannot put in 2 hours a night? Sounds like you have other hobbies that use up your free time, maybe gaming is not for you.
I use my free time for things like : talking to my wife, going over to my son's house for a barbecue, mowing my acre of land, watering my trees, taking care of my mother, attending to the needs of and playing with my 8 grandchildren, talking my other adult children through various things on the phone or visiting them, working on or cleaning the house, washing clothes, dishes, cars, vacuuming the house and the cars, buying groceries and various household items, taking care of our pet birds, fish, and dog; keeping pesticide spread around (we live in the country), shooing off wild dogs and cats, picking up fallen tree branches and otherwise tending the yards, cleaning up the carport and the storage shed, repairing household appliances and tools, visiting friends, running my mother around on her errands, running my wife around on hers, eating out with family and friends, attending various community functions, working and promoting my side jobs; helping out co-workers with various personal projects, cooking, etc. Meanwhile, I have a full time job and a good secondary job, as well as various investments.
The difference between you and I is that I don't begrudge you the fact that you have games that suit your available time and playstyle, but you don't even want them making a game that suits mine, even if there is a market for it.
Get over yourself. Just because some game company is going to built a suitable game for **my** playstyle and available time doesn't mean civilization is going to come to a screeching halt. It just means that some of us have other things to do besides play hockey and video games.
I said free time, not time you spend doing chores. Everyone has chores. I have chores, I own a house at 27. I talk to my parents daily, they live in another state, I cut the lawn, clean the house, make dinner, ect.
Its not some gaming company, its almost every gaming company. They are all catering to your playstyle. The casuals that do not want to put any effort into anything. That want free rewards because they think they are to busy or to important to put in any real time playing a video game. I do not have any games that fit my playstyle andd I have not since EQ1 was really EQ1 and not a shadow of what it used to be.
EvE is really the only game on the market that even comes close to having challenging content in it and like I said earlier it is not a game for me.
There are no games for my playstyle,,,,, name one that gives a challenge. That makes the journey fun, that rewards smart gamers. The problem I have with you is that you do not understand that time means nothing. Its all about effort. My dad played EQ1 and only played maybe 10 hours a week if that and he loved the game..... He loved it because it allowed him to escape and do something fun and rewarding. He never had the best gear, or items or even a max level character but he loved it. He played WoW for less then a month and quit because it was boring and easy.
He is as casual a gamer as you can find.... TIME MEANS LITTLE, its about effort and rewarding that effort.
You could put in 100 hours a week into the old EQ1 and still not get the best rewards or gear, you had to be smart. You had to learn the game, learn your class and OMG talk to other people.
I am just sick of the MMO genre catering to the stupid gamers, the gamers that want to turn off their brains to play video games. That is what movies and TV are for. Not gaming. The mainstream players are ruining a once great genre for the rest of us that like the old sytle of gaming, the one that reward players for effort, not time.
Sooner or Later
The simple solution for these type of players (and many different types of players for that matter) is a MMO without levels and gear that doesn't make you stronger. Maybe new spells as the way of showing progression, but all players able to play with each other (meaning no OP spells, or very limited amount). Sadly almost every developer goes the gear route, and not gameplay.
If someone made a game that was just nothing but fun, we wouldn't have these problems. Bots, gold farmers, etc would not exist (or at least not to this extent) if MMOs weren't such a time sink. Don;t get me wrong, I love MMOs and the idea of playing in a world filled with real people... but let's be real. 80% of the content in games is made so you spend a retarded amount of time. Even the most casual of MMOs (at least what I played) requires more grind than straight up fun.
As for the OP's idea of leveling while you sleep... I don't agree with it. I feel as though people shouldn't even feel that way about a game. That's the major problem with MMOs imo. Until this changes we will have players with attitudes like the OP's, bots, and gold sellers.
Unfortunately for us old school gamers, the above is where the money is these days, making ez mode, buy your way to the top, level offline to save us bandwidth glorified chatrooms, where hoards of precious snowflakes with add, from the land of "everyone wins, there's no losers", armed with their parents credit card, can spam chat with mindless text speak while pushing a few buttons 20 min a day.
Add some flashy moves and anime-style graphics, and you've got a minimum effort, maximum profit winner on your hands.
If you don't want to play the game why are you buying it? Seriously save your money. No one is making you level a character. Go do what you want to do because you have obviously stated it isn't playing video games. You just want to log in once in a while and see where your little digital character is at and log out. Why buy a game to do that? Very illogical. Do you realize that if the game you described exist it would be a vacant ghost town? Why log in and play when the game is leveling everyone else? Why be interested in playing to the end of the game knowing there isn't nothing to look forward to doing with your friends online? I would rather just play on my own time in a single player game.
Do you buy single player games also and try to find ways to skip through the game you bought? Silly.
Once again, when you're trying to talk someone out of wanting what they want, you've already lost the argument. I know what I enjoy, and what I want. Whether it is silly or illogical to you is irrelevant; it is silly and illogical to me the way current MMOGs are set up; it is silly and illogical to me to play video games where that kind of time and effort is required - but that's fine with me, because I don't expect people to behave in a logical manner, or in a non-silly way, People enjoy what they enjoy; as long as it isn't hurting anyone else, and a company provides them a product that meets their desires, what do I care? Good for them.
I hope a developer creates whatever kind of difficult MMOG you want, because I don't begrudge others getting what they want, whether or not I can understand it.
I'm concerned with how much of the game content is available to me when I am paying exactly the same amount as everyone else. Why should I pay to play a game that deliberately codes my playstyle out of all of the top end content? Why should I be satisfied with that? If you bought a ticket to a concert, and paid as much as everyone else, and when you got to the concert you were told that because you hadn't listened to 4 hours of the band's music every day, you were going to have to be satisfied with the worst seats, while those that listened to the band's music 8 hrs a day would get a back stage pass ... would you be satisfied with that?
If you would, then I feel sorry for you. I'm not going to "find a way to enjoy" a game that does that; it's my money, and I'll spend it on the company that creates the game that suits me and my playstyle. If it's not your cup of tea, then don't buy it and don't play it, but please don't tell me what I should and should not enjoy, and should and should not be satisified with in any game I consider buying. You buy and play the games you enjoy for whatever reason you enjoy them, and I'll agree not to try and psychoanalyze your personality and tell you why you're a bad person for it.
I'm concerned with how much of the game content is available to me when I am paying exactly the same amount as everyone else. Why should I pay to play a game that deliberately codes my playstyle out of all of the top end content? Why should I be satisfied with that? If you bought a ticket to a concert, and paid as much as everyone else, and when you got to the concert you were told that because you hadn't listened to 4 hours of the band's music every day, you were going to have to be satisfied with the worst seats, while those that listened to the band's music 8 hrs a day would get a back stage pass ... would you be satisfied with that?
If you would, then I feel sorry for you. I'm not going to "find a way to enjoy" a game that does that; it's my money, and I'll spend it on the company that creates the game that suits me and my playstyle. If it's not your cup of tea, then don't buy it and don't play it, but please don't tell me what I should and should not enjoy, and should and should not be satisified with in any game I consider buying. You buy and play the games you enjoy for whatever reason you enjoy them, and I'll agree not to try and psychoanalyze your personality and tell you why you're a bad person for it.
Are you talking about Raiiding content?
Lots of people play games to the max level, then quit when the raiding starts because it's not their thing. If fact, I think that's the majority of players in subscription based games.
Yeah. If the game is designed so that the best content can only be ahieved via raids (including rewards, attributes, gear, and endgame scenarios designed by developers), and I'm not going to raid, why should I invest my money into it? It would be like buying Diablo even though it has a sticker on it that says "north american players cannot experience end-game content". Why shold I buy it? I'm being deliberately disrespected by the developers.
You would enjoy WoW... Its pretty much easy enough for you.
Nobody disrespects you. The developers don't think about you. The world doesn't revolve around you.
The fact, that raiders have acsess to the better ebnd-game gear is precisey because devs need them to stay and spend time in end-game, to have their money. Don't like it - don't play it. Saying that devs should cater to your needs and wishes, just because you have limited time is pure undistilled egoism. A lot of single-player games, especially in the previous generations had some additional stuff, aside from the game completition - missions, costumes, content, what have you. Not everyone had time, patience and commitment to unlock them, but the ones who did earned it. If the same stuff is available in the same amount of, say, days for guys playing five hours a week and and guys playing twenty, then there's something wrong with the game.
You say, you're punised for playing less. Devs already gave you double experience bonus in almost all games, for being offline. Take it further and guys who actually invest time in the game will be punished, not just feel that way.
MMOs are in their core time-consuming. If anything, devs should increase the quality and usefulness and crafting - the only solution, that can potentially satisfy both sides. And I doubt it'll work, anyway.
I have work, uni and a girlfriend. And I still can scrape 10-15 hours a week for gaming. And I never whine, that someone can achieve something faster, than me. Get over it.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Who needs stale MMO's? Single player PC gaming still is as good as ever. Co op online gaming is coming back in a huge way thanks to Left 4 Dead. Co op in the near future for Pc gaming going to offer some mind blowing dx10 experiences for small groups of players. Hence why the new Star Wars MMO will be small group for instanced story you advance through borrow from the co op experience.
That's fine with me as long as there isn't a subscription fee to play it.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I'm concerned with how much of the game content is available to me when I am paying exactly the same amount as everyone else. Why should I pay to play a game that deliberately codes my playstyle out of all of the top end content? Why should I be satisfied with that? If you bought a ticket to a concert, and paid as much as everyone else, and when you got to the concert you were told that because you hadn't listened to 4 hours of the band's music every day, you were going to have to be satisfied with the worst seats, while those that listened to the band's music 8 hrs a day would get a back stage pass ... would you be satisfied with that?
If you would, then I feel sorry for you. I'm not going to "find a way to enjoy" a game that does that; it's my money, and I'll spend it on the company that creates the game that suits me and my playstyle. If it's not your cup of tea, then don't buy it and don't play it, but please don't tell me what I should and should not enjoy, and should and should not be satisified with in any game I consider buying. You buy and play the games you enjoy for whatever reason you enjoy them, and I'll agree not to try and psychoanalyze your personality and tell you why you're a bad person for it.
I wasn't trying to insult you or your playstyle, I was simply questioning your motives. You seem overly concerned with what everyone else has instead of just doing your own thing and having fun. I was just curious as to why that is. Also, if I liked the band enough, I would still go see them regardless of what everyone else has. Feel sorry for me if you like.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I'm not wanting an "easy" game. I'm wanting one that doesn't requires uberguild-raid levels of time and commitment to achieve end-game rewards. IOW, a solo instance that takes 30 minutes or an hour to complete doesn't have to be "easy"; it might take me 10 or 20 tries to figure it out, bring what I need, develop a strategy to beat it. That wouldn't be "easy", but it also wouldn't require that I sit at my computer for 5-10 hrs a night, 5 days a week, finding groups or waiting while someone organizes a raid or having to commit to some guild rules.
However, on further reading, it does appear that Alganon is not using the study system as I thought, and so my wait for a suitable game continues. Perhaps FF14.
What difference does it make what my motives are? If my motives are jealousy and greed, so what? Are those characteristics that game companies don't market towards? Don't most MMOGs market their games with super-sexy, overly-endowed avatars that appeal to the base instincts of young, male players? Should others have their lust, and greed and jealousy for items or a sense of superiority served by the gaming communtiy, while mine, and those like me, have their profitable character flaws and desires left un-serviced?
At some point, some an intelligent game marketer is going to realize that there's a reason people BUIY maxed-out characters in MMOGs, BUY gold from 3rd-party services, use BOT macros to advance their characters, and will pay services to level their character or take them on raids; and, there's a reason those people don't "satisfy" themselves with 2nd best or 2nd rate, and don't play single-player games on their computers at home: They want to compete in an MMOG setting, have the opportunity to engage top end, end-game rewards and content, and they don't want to get there by investing countless hours of personal time banging away on the keys.
If that is a lementable character flaw, so what? So is drinking, smoking, eating fattening fast food, gambling, and buying gold-plated bathroom fixtures while others starve to death. So is a male player creating a female avatar and sliding the "chest" slider all the way to one side. Shall we just stop making products for them? Shall we not make anyone any products if they can't first describe their desire for that product in a way that is acceptable to our pesonal code of ethics or morality?
You ever stop to think that it can also be considered a character flaw to spend that kind of time in a video game? And it might be a similar ethical question as what a tobacco company faces to provide a game where such an addiction is promoted and serviced? Why should the "character flaw" of video game addiction and spending massive amounts of time online be serviced and pandered to, and not my "character flaw" of not wanting to spend massive amounts of time online?
Do you guys even realize the logical incoherence of your arguments? Are you really going to argue that not wanting to spend massive amounts of time in an online game, so design us a game where we don't have to, is a unique, unmarketable and unserviceable character flaw?
In Asia they pay for time they play, this could be a way of solving the OPs problem with paying the same price as everyone else without playing as much.
What difference does it make what my motives are? If my motives are jealousy and greed, so what? Are those characteristics that game companies don't market towards? Don't most MMOGs market their games with super-sexy, overly-endowed avatars that appeal to the base instincts of young, male players? Should others have their lust, and greed and jealousy for items or a sense of superiority served by the gaming communtiy, while mine, and those like me, have their profitable character flaws and desires left un-serviced?
At some point, some an intelligent game marketer is going to realize that there's a reason people BUIY maxed-out characters in MMOGs, BUY gold from 3rd-party services, use BOT macros to advance their characters, and will pay services to level their character or take them on raids; and, there's a reason those people don't "satisfy" themselves with 2nd best or 2nd rate, and don't play single-player games on their computers at home: They want to compete in an MMOG setting, have the opportunity to engage top end, end-game rewards and content, and they don't want to get there by investing countless hours of personal time banging away on the keys.
If that is a lementable character flaw, so what? So is drinking, smoking, eating fattening fast food, gambling, and buying gold-plated bathroom fixtures while others starve to death. So is a male player creating a female avatar and sliding the "chest" slider all the way to one side. Shall we just stop making products for them? Shall we not make anyone any products if they can't first describe their desire for that product in a way that is acceptable to our pesonal code of ethics or morality?
You ever stop to think that it can also be considered a character flaw to spend that kind of time in a video game? And it might be a similar ethical question as what a tobacco company faces to provide a game where such an addiction is promoted and serviced? Why should the "character flaw" of video game addiction and spending massive amounts of time online be serviced and pandered to, and not my "character flaw" of not wanting to spend massive amounts of time online?
Do you guys even realize the logical incoherence of your arguments? Are you really going to argue that not wanting to spend massive amounts of time in an online game, so design us a game where we don't have to, is a unique, unmarketable and unserviceable character flaw?
It's not because it's a flaw, a sin or any other bullcrap, youre trying to spew. It's because you're not playing alone. And applying your kind of rules to everyone means unfair stuff waiting to happen, to those around.
It's like buying a degree at the university. A lot of people in Russia do that, do we legalise it?
A lot of people do heroin, should we legalise it as well? It's your personal choice, it's your personal quirk! Who cares, if you destroy yourself, right?
Wrong. Stop being egoistic and consider all sides of the conflict. MMORPGs, by their design, are a time-consuming experience - that's what keeping them alive. If you're nt willing to accept it, you have to move on.
Let's expore your hypotetical situation. Dev gives in. You can level up with your pace in two months. You can get and explore all content in three, including the months you got to the top. Having nothing left to do, you leave.
50 bucks for a box, plus 30 bucks for two extra months of play. Dev is getting 80 bucks from you, and even less from a power-gamer, who had more time to invest. Uh-oh, suddenly, the dev is broke. That's exactly what happened to WAR. Nice job breaking it, hero.
And don't get me started on lasting and oftentimes unpredictable in-game consequences.
It's getting ridiculos. Do you want to enjoy the game, all aspects of it, or do you want those shiny pieces of raiding gear? You know how many things there are to do, even solo, in a well-designed MMORPG? Things that can be done with a limited time scheldue? Crafting, exploring, socialising, role-playing, price manipulating... Why do you care, about being second-class citizen? Why do you want to be the same class as those "no-lifes" with their huge e-peens?
Oh yeah. Because you're egoistic and care about your e-peen more, than your enjoyment.
What a surprise, he lied.
EDIT: I especially love the title of the thread. "NOT playing a MMORPG, until...". Really. Demand people to do things for you, or else you won't associate with them. Sure, that'll take you a long way in life...
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
tbh i stopped reading here. You need to gtfo out of gaming if you cannot find a reason to play just 2 hours for one night. What kind of gamer says this? Honestly i think you need to find a different hobby or something because gaming isn't what you perceive it to be. If you dont have enough fun in a video game to spend more then 1 hour then you should quit wasting your money.
And as for the "i dont want to play single player games because there are no other players" comment. Why do you want to play a game with other players if all you want to do is solo? In the op you mentioned you didnt want to have to group or join a guild. Guilds and groups are a major part of socialization in a game, despite what kind of poor excuse you have, whats the point in playing a MMORPG if you're just going to solo and not compete with anybody else? Or socialize with them for that matter....
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
What difference does it make what my motives are? If my motives are jealousy and greed, so what? Are those characteristics that game companies don't market towards? Don't most MMOGs market their games with super-sexy, overly-endowed avatars that appeal to the base instincts of young, male players? Should others have their lust, and greed and jealousy for items or a sense of superiority served by the gaming communtiy, while mine, and those like me, have their profitable character flaws and desires left un-serviced?
At some point, some an intelligent game marketer is going to realize that there's a reason people BUIY maxed-out characters in MMOGs, BUY gold from 3rd-party services, use BOT macros to advance their characters, and will pay services to level their character or take them on raids; and, there's a reason those people don't "satisfy" themselves with 2nd best or 2nd rate, and don't play single-player games on their computers at home: They want to compete in an MMOG setting, have the opportunity to engage top end, end-game rewards and content, and they don't want to get there by investing countless hours of personal time banging away on the keys.
If that is a lementable character flaw, so what? So is drinking, smoking, eating fattening fast food, gambling, and buying gold-plated bathroom fixtures while others starve to death. So is a male player creating a female avatar and sliding the "chest" slider all the way to one side. Shall we just stop making products for them? Shall we not make anyone any products if they can't first describe their desire for that product in a way that is acceptable to our pesonal code of ethics or morality?
You ever stop to think that it can also be considered a character flaw to spend that kind of time in a video game? And it might be a similar ethical question as what a tobacco company faces to provide a game where such an addiction is promoted and serviced? Why should the "character flaw" of video game addiction and spending massive amounts of time online be serviced and pandered to, and not my "character flaw" of not wanting to spend massive amounts of time online?
Do you guys even realize the logical incoherence of your arguments? Are you really going to argue that not wanting to spend massive amounts of time in an online game, so design us a game where we don't have to, is a unique, unmarketable and unserviceable character flaw?
It's not because it's a flaw, a sin or any other bullcrap, youre trying to spew. It's because you're not playing alone. And applying your kind of rules to everyone means unfair stuff waiting to happen, to those around.
It's like buying a degree at the university. A lot of people in Russia do that, do we legalise it?
A lot of people do heroin, should we legalise it as well? It's your personal choice, it's your personal quirk! Who cares, if you destroy yourself, right?
Wrong. Stop being egoistic and consider all sides of the conflict. MMORPGs, by their design, are a time-consuming experience - that's what keeping them alive. If you're nt willing to accept it, you have to move on.
Let's expore your hypotetical situation. Dev gives in. You can level up with your pace in two months. You can get and explore all content in three, including the months you got to the top. Having nothing left to do, you leave.
50 bucks for a box, plus 30 bucks for two extra months of play. Dev is getting 80 bucks from you, and even less from a power-gamer, who had more time to invest. Uh-oh, suddenly, the dev is broke. That's exactly what happened to WAR. Nice job breaking it, hero.
And don't get me started on lasting and oftentimes unpredictable in-game consequences.
It's getting ridiculos. Do you want to enjoy the game, all aspects of it, or do you want those shiny pieces of raiding gear? You know how many things there are to do, even solo, in a well-designed MMORPG? Things that can be done with a limited time scheldue? Crafting, exploring, socialising, role-playing, price manipulating... Why do you care, about being second-class citizen? Why do you want to be the same class as those "no-lifes" with their huge e-peens?
Oh yeah. Because you're egoistic and care about your e-peen more, than your enjoyment.
What a surprise, he lied.
EDIT: I especially love the title of the thread. "NOT playing a MMORPG, until...". Really. Demand people to do things for you, or else you won't associate with them. Sure, that'll take you a long way in life...
Unfortunately, none of this is a rebuttal to my argument. I'm not asking for anything illegal, unprogrammable, or unmarketable; your argument is that I shouldn't want what I want, and I shouldn't enjoy what I enjoy. MMOGs are not necessarily any of the things you mention, other than being a community-based game. They don't necessarily require massive online time or raid-style organizational efforts; they don't necessarily reward grouping and raiding with superior content and rewards. They are that way only because they are programmed that way, because the programmers believe they are going to tap into a profitable market. And yes, they have. I'm not arguing that.
My argument is that there is another likely, profitable, largely-untapped market niche, where the soloer and casual player who want to play in an MMO format and compete without investing personal computer time are equalized through innovative coding with anyone else who plays, including powergamer and guilds. This market is evidenced by the things I listed - people that buy maxed out character accounts, pay for leveling services, and use bots to level characters, as well as other games that are basically single-player games you can play online with or against others.
You're argument is that I'm a bad guy for wanting a game like that. Okay. I'm a bad guy. So what? The market is still there and it's still legal. At some point, some bright company of developers is going to figure out that a casual and solo-oriented MMOG that is dedicated to casuals and soloers can tap that casual and soloer market in a way that other MMOGs to date cannot, because they do not make casuals and soloers EQUAL to powergamers and guilds. Such a game can be made; it is entirely legal; and it will without a doubt have greater appeal to casuals and soloers than any MMOG currently on the market.
Your argument is that people that play such games have character flaws. Boo hoo. So?
What difference does it make what my motives are? If my motives are jealousy and greed, so what? Are those characteristics that game companies don't market towards? Don't most MMOGs market their games with super-sexy, overly-endowed avatars that appeal to the base instincts of young, male players? Should others have their lust, and greed and jealousy for items or a sense of superiority served by the gaming communtiy, while mine, and those like me, have their profitable character flaws and desires left un-serviced?
At some point, some an intelligent game marketer is going to realize that there's a reason people BUIY maxed-out characters in MMOGs, BUY gold from 3rd-party services, use BOT macros to advance their characters, and will pay services to level their character or take them on raids; and, there's a reason those people don't "satisfy" themselves with 2nd best or 2nd rate, and don't play single-player games on their computers at home: They want to compete in an MMOG setting, have the opportunity to engage top end, end-game rewards and content, and they don't want to get there by investing countless hours of personal time banging away on the keys.
If that is a lementable character flaw, so what? So is drinking, smoking, eating fattening fast food, gambling, and buying gold-plated bathroom fixtures while others starve to death. So is a male player creating a female avatar and sliding the "chest" slider all the way to one side. Shall we just stop making products for them? Shall we not make anyone any products if they can't first describe their desire for that product in a way that is acceptable to our pesonal code of ethics or morality?
You ever stop to think that it can also be considered a character flaw to spend that kind of time in a video game? And it might be a similar ethical question as what a tobacco company faces to provide a game where such an addiction is promoted and serviced? Why should the "character flaw" of video game addiction and spending massive amounts of time online be serviced and pandered to, and not my "character flaw" of not wanting to spend massive amounts of time online?
Do you guys even realize the logical incoherence of your arguments? Are you really going to argue that not wanting to spend massive amounts of time in an online game, so design us a game where we don't have to, is a unique, unmarketable and unserviceable character flaw?
It's not because it's a flaw, a sin or any other bullcrap, youre trying to spew. It's because you're not playing alone. And applying your kind of rules to everyone means unfair stuff waiting to happen, to those around.
It's like buying a degree at the university. A lot of people in Russia do that, do we legalise it?
A lot of people do heroin, should we legalise it as well? It's your personal choice, it's your personal quirk! Who cares, if you destroy yourself, right?
Wrong. Stop being egoistic and consider all sides of the conflict. MMORPGs, by their design, are a time-consuming experience - that's what keeping them alive. If you're nt willing to accept it, you have to move on.
Let's expore your hypotetical situation. Dev gives in. You can level up with your pace in two months. You can get and explore all content in three, including the months you got to the top. Having nothing left to do, you leave.
50 bucks for a box, plus 30 bucks for two extra months of play. Dev is getting 80 bucks from you, and even less from a power-gamer, who had more time to invest. Uh-oh, suddenly, the dev is broke. That's exactly what happened to WAR. Nice job breaking it, hero.
And don't get me started on lasting and oftentimes unpredictable in-game consequences.
It's getting ridiculos. Do you want to enjoy the game, all aspects of it, or do you want those shiny pieces of raiding gear? You know how many things there are to do, even solo, in a well-designed MMORPG? Things that can be done with a limited time scheldue? Crafting, exploring, socialising, role-playing, price manipulating... Why do you care, about being second-class citizen? Why do you want to be the same class as those "no-lifes" with their huge e-peens?
Oh yeah. Because you're egoistic and care about your e-peen more, than your enjoyment.
What a surprise, he lied.
EDIT: I especially love the title of the thread. "NOT playing a MMORPG, until...". Really. Demand people to do things for you, or else you won't associate with them. Sure, that'll take you a long way in life...
Unfortunately, none of this is a rebuttal to my argument. I'm not asking for anything illegal, unprogrammable, or unmarketable; your argument is that I shouldn't want what I want, and I shouldn't enjoy what I enjoy. MMOGs are not necessarily any of the things you mention, other than being a community-based game. They don't necessarily require massive online time or raid-style organizational efforts; they don't necessarily reward grouping and raiding with superior content and rewards. They are that way only because they are programmed that way, because the programmers believe they are going to tap into a profitable market. And yes, they have. I'm not arguing that.
My argument is that there is another likely, profitable, largely-untapped market niche, where the soloer and casual player who want to play in an MMO format and compete without investing personal computer time are equalized through innovative coding with anyone else who plays, including powergamer and guilds. This market is evidenced by the things I listed - people that buy maxed out character accounts, pay for leveling services, and use bots to level characters, as well as other games that are basically single-player games you can play online with or against others.
You're argument is that I'm a bad guy for wanting a game like that. Okay. I'm a bad guy. So what? The market is still there and it's still legal. At some point, some bright company of developers is going to figure out that a casual and solo-oriented MMOG that is dedicated to casuals and soloers can tap that casual and soloer market in a way that other MMOGs to date cannot, because they do not make casuals and soloers EQUAL to powergamers and guilds. Such a game can be made; it is entirely legal; and it will without a doubt have greater appeal to casuals and soloers than any MMOG currently on the market.
Your argument is that people that play such games have character flaws. Boo hoo. So?
And you completely ignore all of my points, while rambling about the same thing.
Sorry, buty you, sir, are beyond help. You don't need an argument or reason, nor do you care about other sides. All you care is your own momentary enjoyment. Lucky for you, there ARE a lot of people like you. And yes, this thinking is flawed.
The problem, however, is that you're a bad market - utterly unpredictable, unreliable and unsatisfyable. Just like some of the more radical "hardcore" players, only on the opposite side of the spectrum. But hey, someone just might try!
This discussion is pointless, you want people to agree with you and at least one developer to bend to your needs, not an intelligent discussion. Hope it works out, in the end, without massive property damage. Good day to you.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
