Expansion in the context of MMORPG is not meant as an expanded area. It is meant as an expansion of features that make up the game. Adding any 1 feature that changes the game significantly can be called an expansion. Again who gives a crap if it's free.
I would just like to point out 1 of the may definitions of the word "expansion". - an increase in economic and industrial activity By adding in housing alone this adds to economic activity. I guess you could go as far to say it adds to industrial activity to with workbenches in the houses. But really, who cares what they call it. You are getting more content.
Typically for MMOs the use of expansion is used when the following is added:
New land-mass
New races
New classes
New vehicles/ships
New levels
New dungeons/raids/maps
New quests
New skills/spells
New armor/weapons
New crafting professions
New recipes
New buildings
Some expansions include almost all of the above. Most include a majority of the above. At the very least, I'm having a hard time thinking of a MMO that released an expansion that didn't include new land-mass.
That being said... DarkFall is releasing this update for free. Tasos obviously chose to use the word expansion because of the additional free advertising it would generate. Smart tactic for him, but doesn't really change the fact that it is just an update.
Many examples could be given of other MMOs releasing as much or more for free and only calling it a patch or update... doesn't really matter in the end.
The fans can have their moment of glory with the words on the official news page. The details and the actual implementation of said words will mean much more in the end.
We will see if all those singing the praises of this update are doing so in 2 weeks.
Because an EXPANSION is something that extends the gaming landmass or surface... with added content.
If you don't add land, then it's not expanding anything, it's just a game update or patch. Tasos thinks because it tied to opening a NA server, they are expanding the game... lol It's just him playing word games. Everquest, DAOC, Vanguard, etc.. all have had major patches with incredibly way more content and changes... none of those were expansions. This.. is an expansion!
This is just Darkfall's first major update... and Tasos being so QQ, had to name it "expansion" because he knows what a real expansion is and the headlines will get peoples attention. The guy should be tared & feathered and paraded around like the crook he is. Tasos Flambouras is a rotten, low down parasite. He has no honor or even respct for his family name.
The bottom line here is this....so what..
call it a toaster oven who cares, the content is the content play it or dont .
Your right, call it a toaster!
Though, it makes no sense and isn't what the players or industry calls updates... SOE should have an immediate press release announcing that since 2007, Vanguard has had 44 "expansions" ....!
Dude, you are so newbie and naive, it hurts to read your posts anymore. But please don't stop, I have your quotes printed up all over my office so my co-workers can read them. They call you "Corky" from life goes on.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
I would just like to point out 1 of the may definitions of the word "expansion". - an increase in economic and industrial activity By adding in housing alone this adds to economic activity. I guess you could go as far to say it adds to industrial activity to with workbenches in the houses. But really, who cares what they call it. You are getting more content.
Typically for MMOs the use of expansion is used when the following is added:
New land-mass
New races
New classes
New vehicles/ships
New levels
New dungeons/raids/maps
New quests
New skills/spells
New armor/weapons
New crafting professions
New recipes
New buildings
Some expansions include almost all of the above. Most include a majority of the above. At the very least, I'm having a hard time thinking of a MMO that released an expansion that didn't include new land-mass.
That being said... DarkFall is releasing this update for free. Tasos obviously chose to use the word expansion because of the additional free advertising it would generate. Smart tactic for him, but doesn't really change the fact that it is just an update.
Many examples could be given of other MMOs releasing as much or more for free and only calling it a patch or update... doesn't really matter in the end.
The fans can have their moment of glory with the words on the official news page. The details and the actual implementation of said words will mean much more in the end.
We will see if all those singing the praises of this update are doing so in 2 weeks.
Just because someone else does it, doesn't mean thats the way it has to be. I was simply pointing out other meanings to the word. People need to understand the full meaning of things before they have the right to complain about it.
While I agree this is more of an update then anything, again who gives a crap what they call it lol.
I also highly doubt he used that word to "lure" people in.
I would just like to point out 1 of the may definitions of the word "expansion". - an increase in economic and industrial activity By adding in housing alone this adds to economic activity. I guess you could go as far to say it adds to industrial activity to with workbenches in the houses. But really, who cares what they call it. You are getting more content.
Typically for MMOs the use of expansion is used when the following is added:
New land-mass
New races
New classes
New vehicles/ships
New levels
New dungeons/raids/maps
New quests
New skills/spells
New armor/weapons
New crafting professions
New recipes
New buildings
Some expansions include almost all of the above. Most include a majority of the above. At the very least, I'm having a hard time thinking of a MMO that released an expansion that didn't include new land-mass.
That being said... DarkFall is releasing this update for free. Tasos obviously chose to use the word expansion because of the additional free advertising it would generate. Smart tactic for him, but doesn't really change the fact that it is just an update.
Many examples could be given of other MMOs releasing as much or more for free and only calling it a patch or update... doesn't really matter in the end.
The fans can have their moment of glory with the words on the official news page. The details and the actual implementation of said words will mean much more in the end.
We will see if all those singing the praises of this update are doing so in 2 weeks.
Just because someone else does it, doesn't mean thats the way it has to be. I was simply pointing out other meanings to the word. People need to understand the full meaning of things before they have the right to complain about it.
While I agree this is more of an update then anything, again who gives a crap what they call it lol.
I also highly doubt he used that word to "lure" people in.
Heh... you might want to check up on Tasos' history with word-play over the years. If nothing else he is very clever with the words he chooses.
I was just giving some examples of what I remember seeing in MMO expansions over the years. As I said, I don't recall any real expansions NOT included new land-mass. I could be wrong though.
As I said in my previous post... it's their choice what they want to call it. You are right in that since it's free it doesn't really matter. It's just another example of how Tasos plays with words and that he doesn't use them in the standard MMO industry definition of those words.
Whether it's his inexperience in the industry, or he's just dense... that is the main point of contention.
Heh... you might want to check up on Tasos' history with word-play over the years. If nothing else he is very clever with the words he chooses.
I was just giving some examples of what I remember seeing in MMO expansions over the years. As I said, I don't recall any real expansions NOT included new land-mass. I could be wrong though.
As I said in my previous post... it's their choice what they want to call it. You are right in that since it's free it doesn't really matter. It's just another example of how Tasos plays with words and that he doesn't use them in the standard MMO industry definition of those words. Whether it's his inexperience in the industry, or he's just dense... that is the main point of contention.
Take note people, this is how you respond to someone you don't totally agree with. No need for the harshness that goes on constantly.
Anyway you may be right. I have not read EVERY post by him, only a few about the NA launch. In the end none of it matters as people will still play it heh.
The way I see it, it is an update/patch that should of been in there during release. It is a smart tactic to call it an expansion to lure in new customers and bring back old ones. I'd have to admit the game is looking a little better.
If Darkfall survives the year, with these changes and hopefully more to come this game maybe a decent product. I look forward to reading the reviews of the free expansion.
As a side note I think it's funny that CCP could release a free xpac for Eve that's basically just a big patch but when AV does it its a scam and the games dead lol.
I love Eve don;t get me wrong but I think the DF haters on these forums are a bit off thier rockers.
problem is that these were PROMISED features that would be included at launch with a "Feature Complete" game
So ?
If DF will survive on the market and put more enjoyable content, it will have a chance to win its declining player base back.
Remember right now there is no competition in that niche, with MO on the market they actually may try harder.
Player housing and villages can be a nice start. Fixes to pve, economy and game mechanics ( as long well done ) will improve player experience as well.
It is still not enough. we still need balanced combat ( especially competitive melee ), balance in clan warfare ( anti-zerg mechanics would be nice, maybe by implementing maintenance cost, rising rapidly with a number of towns and members owned by your alliance ) and content, killing people and mobs plus deathmatch mode it is not enought even for a "sandbox" game.
We have a sandbox Aventurine, time to give us some sand.
If Darkfall survives the year, with these changes and hopefully more to come this game maybe a decent product. I look forward to reading the reviews of the free expansion.
As a side note I think it's funny that CCP could release a free xpac for Eve that's basically just a big patch but when AV does it its a scam and the games dead lol.
I love Eve don;t get me wrong but I think the DF haters on these forums are a bit off thier rockers.
problem is that these were PROMISED features that would be included at launch with a "Feature Complete" game
So ?
If DF will survive on the market and put more enjoyable content, it will have a chance to win its declining player base back.
Remember right now there is no competition in that niche, with MO on the market they actually may try harder.
Player housing and villages can be a nice start. Fixes to pve, economy and game mechanics ( as long well done ) will improve player experience as well.
It is still not enough. we still need balanced combat ( especially competitive melee ), balance in clan warfare ( anti-zerg mechanics would be nice, maybe by implementing maintenance cost, rising rapidly with a number of towns and members owned by your alliance ) and content, killing people and mobs plus deathmatch mode it is not enought even for a "sandbox" game.
We have a sandbox Aventurine, time to give us some sand.
Yeah DarkFall's coffin isn't buried yet.
IF they would have launched with everything that is said to be in the coming update... they'd be in a much better position. Ask Vanguard how hard it is to get players to come back. Some will come back... many will not.
The list of items in the update on their news forum is the easy part though. Aventurine is notorious for not testing their code before they throw it onto the live server.
They are in desparate need of a real test server like many other MMOs utilize. There is no way that a handful of internal testers can hope to catch even a pittance of the bugs that will be discovered in the first 24 hours on the live server.
Aventurine will also soon find out that their life will get much more complicated in the upcoming months.
They are adding in a bigger update with some new mechanics that haven't been tested by the public.
They still have a lot of fixes from the release that didn't get fixed fully.
They are introducing a new client (the NA client) with new subscribers, new billing, new payments, etc.
Lastly, they are going to do transfers in 3 months from the EU-1 server to the NA server.
Welcome to the world of MMO Development Aventurine... it'll be interesting to watch how they handle it all.
I think we are being silly with the whole expansion/patch thing, here: If it MUST be downloaded to play the game its a PATCH. If it is an optional addition to the game its an EXPANSION. Sounds like its going to be a patch to me!
While this is purely an academic debate, I have to agree with Holgranth's point.
Using WoW as a recognizable example...A person can play without purchasing any expansion packs. They will have fewer gaming options then those who do have the expansions, but they can play none-the-less.
That same person cannot, however, play unless their client is patched up to the current version. This is independant of the optional expansion packs and is mandatory in order to play the game.
I think that's a pretty good distinction between the two.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I think we are being silly with the whole expansion/patch thing, here: If it MUST be downloaded to play the game its a PATCH. If it is an optional addition to the game its an EXPANSION. Sounds like its going to be a patch to me!
This is right on the money, there is and can be no argument against Holgranth's point.
I can however imagine working for a small game studio, putting in a lot of work and deciding, in my excitement to call this patch an expansion, I picture the AV guys saying "OK guys, we are all done, the patch is ready to roll - did I say PATCH? Hell no, guys the EXPANSION is ready to roll!!!"
*Lots of high fives, chest bumps and plate smashing occurs*
I think we are being silly with the whole expansion/patch thing, here: If it MUST be downloaded to play the game its a PATCH. If it is an optional addition to the game its an EXPANSION. Sounds like its going to be a patch to me!
While this is purely an academic debate, I have to agree with Holgranth's point.
Using WoW as a recognizable example...A person can play without purchasing any expansion packs. They will have fewer gaming options then those who do have the expansions, but they can play none-the-less.
That same person cannot, however, play unless their client is patched up to the current version. This is independant of the optional expansion packs and is mandatory in order to play the game.
I think that's a pretty good distinction between the two.
How do you factor Lineage 2 into that then? I consider Prelude, C1 to C5, Interlude, and the latest one released to all be Expansions. You can't play Lineage 2 using a C1 client though.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
How do you factor Lineage 2 into that then? I consider Prelude, C1 to C5, Interlude, and the latest one released to all be Expansions. You can't play Lineage 2 using a C1 client though.
I imagine you can ask the same of EvE. Personally, I never questioned whether EvE's updates were expansions or not, I just let them download after they were deployed and kept on playing. I imagine many DF players will do the same with this patch/expansion.
That said, after reading Holgranth's reasoning, I am inclined to call those EvE updates patches, or "updates". As I said, it's purely an academic argument as AV is obviously using one set of standards that labels the update as an expansion and those who disagree are using a different set of standards.
As it stands, I will agree with Sean for a moment (threw up in my mouht a little right there) and say that you could call it a toaster and it wouldn't really affect anything aside from possibly marketing. But, at least in my eyes, my standard for expansion/patch will be the optional/mandatory yardstick from now on. What I call an exapnsion or patch though will really not have much, if any, impact on anyone else.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Ok, wait wait wait... Vaporware this, Tasos said that, Aventurine did this, blah blah blah... Now people are picking apart whether or not the next content update is an expansion or a patch?!?!?!
Ok, wait wait wait... Vaporware this, Tasos said that, Aventurine did this, blah blah blah... Now people are picking apart whether or not the next content update is an expansion or a patch?!?!?!
Are you effing serious? Come on people...
People always find something to complain about.
Unfortunately this game and Tasos have given ppl reason to complain. Sad but true. I hope things get better with it after the NA server launcehes.
Played : WOW, LOTRO, COH/COV, EQ2, SWG, and WAR. Playing EVE Online and AOC. Wtg for SW:TOR and WOD
Comments
Expansion in the context of MMORPG is not meant as an expanded area. It is meant as an expansion of features that make up the game. Adding any 1 feature that changes the game significantly can be called an expansion. Again who gives a crap if it's free.
Typically for MMOs the use of expansion is used when the following is added:
Some expansions include almost all of the above. Most include a majority of the above. At the very least, I'm having a hard time thinking of a MMO that released an expansion that didn't include new land-mass.
That being said... DarkFall is releasing this update for free. Tasos obviously chose to use the word expansion because of the additional free advertising it would generate. Smart tactic for him, but doesn't really change the fact that it is just an update.
Many examples could be given of other MMOs releasing as much or more for free and only calling it a patch or update... doesn't really matter in the end.
The fans can have their moment of glory with the words on the official news page. The details and the actual implementation of said words will mean much more in the end.
We will see if all those singing the praises of this update are doing so in 2 weeks.
The bottom line here is this....so what..
call it a toaster oven who cares, the content is the content play it or dont .
Your right, call it a toaster!
Though, it makes no sense and isn't what the players or industry calls updates... SOE should have an immediate press release announcing that since 2007, Vanguard has had 44 "expansions" ....!
Dude, you are so newbie and naive, it hurts to read your posts anymore. But please don't stop, I have your quotes printed up all over my office so my co-workers can read them. They call you "Corky" from life goes on.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Typically for MMOs the use of expansion is used when the following is added:
Some expansions include almost all of the above. Most include a majority of the above. At the very least, I'm having a hard time thinking of a MMO that released an expansion that didn't include new land-mass.
That being said... DarkFall is releasing this update for free. Tasos obviously chose to use the word expansion because of the additional free advertising it would generate. Smart tactic for him, but doesn't really change the fact that it is just an update.
Many examples could be given of other MMOs releasing as much or more for free and only calling it a patch or update... doesn't really matter in the end.
The fans can have their moment of glory with the words on the official news page. The details and the actual implementation of said words will mean much more in the end.
We will see if all those singing the praises of this update are doing so in 2 weeks.
Just because someone else does it, doesn't mean thats the way it has to be. I was simply pointing out other meanings to the word. People need to understand the full meaning of things before they have the right to complain about it.
While I agree this is more of an update then anything, again who gives a crap what they call it lol.
I also highly doubt he used that word to "lure" people in.
Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*
Typically for MMOs the use of expansion is used when the following is added:
Some expansions include almost all of the above. Most include a majority of the above. At the very least, I'm having a hard time thinking of a MMO that released an expansion that didn't include new land-mass.
That being said... DarkFall is releasing this update for free. Tasos obviously chose to use the word expansion because of the additional free advertising it would generate. Smart tactic for him, but doesn't really change the fact that it is just an update.
Many examples could be given of other MMOs releasing as much or more for free and only calling it a patch or update... doesn't really matter in the end.
The fans can have their moment of glory with the words on the official news page. The details and the actual implementation of said words will mean much more in the end.
We will see if all those singing the praises of this update are doing so in 2 weeks.
Just because someone else does it, doesn't mean thats the way it has to be. I was simply pointing out other meanings to the word. People need to understand the full meaning of things before they have the right to complain about it.
While I agree this is more of an update then anything, again who gives a crap what they call it lol.
I also highly doubt he used that word to "lure" people in.
Heh... you might want to check up on Tasos' history with word-play over the years. If nothing else he is very clever with the words he chooses.
I was just giving some examples of what I remember seeing in MMO expansions over the years. As I said, I don't recall any real expansions NOT included new land-mass. I could be wrong though.
As I said in my previous post... it's their choice what they want to call it. You are right in that since it's free it doesn't really matter. It's just another example of how Tasos plays with words and that he doesn't use them in the standard MMO industry definition of those words.
Whether it's his inexperience in the industry, or he's just dense... that is the main point of contention.
Take note people, this is how you respond to someone you don't totally agree with. No need for the harshness that goes on constantly.
Anyway you may be right. I have not read EVERY post by him, only a few about the NA launch. In the end none of it matters as people will still play it heh.
The way I see it, it is an update/patch that should of been in there during release. It is a smart tactic to call it an expansion to lure in new customers and bring back old ones. I'd have to admit the game is looking a little better.
problem is that these were PROMISED features that would be included at launch with a "Feature Complete" game
So ?
If DF will survive on the market and put more enjoyable content, it will have a chance to win its declining player base back.
Remember right now there is no competition in that niche, with MO on the market they actually may try harder.
Player housing and villages can be a nice start. Fixes to pve, economy and game mechanics ( as long well done ) will improve player experience as well.
It is still not enough. we still need balanced combat ( especially competitive melee ), balance in clan warfare ( anti-zerg mechanics would be nice, maybe by implementing maintenance cost, rising rapidly with a number of towns and members owned by your alliance ) and content, killing people and mobs plus deathmatch mode it is not enought even for a "sandbox" game.
We have a sandbox Aventurine, time to give us some sand.
problem is that these were PROMISED features that would be included at launch with a "Feature Complete" game
So ?
If DF will survive on the market and put more enjoyable content, it will have a chance to win its declining player base back.
Remember right now there is no competition in that niche, with MO on the market they actually may try harder.
Player housing and villages can be a nice start. Fixes to pve, economy and game mechanics ( as long well done ) will improve player experience as well.
It is still not enough. we still need balanced combat ( especially competitive melee ), balance in clan warfare ( anti-zerg mechanics would be nice, maybe by implementing maintenance cost, rising rapidly with a number of towns and members owned by your alliance ) and content, killing people and mobs plus deathmatch mode it is not enought even for a "sandbox" game.
We have a sandbox Aventurine, time to give us some sand.
Yeah DarkFall's coffin isn't buried yet.
IF they would have launched with everything that is said to be in the coming update... they'd be in a much better position. Ask Vanguard how hard it is to get players to come back. Some will come back... many will not.
The list of items in the update on their news forum is the easy part though. Aventurine is notorious for not testing their code before they throw it onto the live server.
They are in desparate need of a real test server like many other MMOs utilize. There is no way that a handful of internal testers can hope to catch even a pittance of the bugs that will be discovered in the first 24 hours on the live server.
Aventurine will also soon find out that their life will get much more complicated in the upcoming months.
They are adding in a bigger update with some new mechanics that haven't been tested by the public.
They still have a lot of fixes from the release that didn't get fixed fully.
They are introducing a new client (the NA client) with new subscribers, new billing, new payments, etc.
Lastly, they are going to do transfers in 3 months from the EU-1 server to the NA server.
Welcome to the world of MMO Development Aventurine... it'll be interesting to watch how they handle it all.
Man you guys are more bitchy and high maintenance than my wife.
I think we are being silly with the whole expansion/patch thing, here:
If it MUST be downloaded to play the game its a PATCH.
If it is an optional addition to the game its an EXPANSION.
Sounds like its going to be a patch to me!
Dem hibbies! Dey be wrong!
Since we are on the subject...
I have a headache tonight & I'm going shopping tomorrow.
While this is purely an academic debate, I have to agree with Holgranth's point.
Using WoW as a recognizable example...A person can play without purchasing any expansion packs. They will have fewer gaming options then those who do have the expansions, but they can play none-the-less.
That same person cannot, however, play unless their client is patched up to the current version. This is independant of the optional expansion packs and is mandatory in order to play the game.
I think that's a pretty good distinction between the two.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Since we are on the subject...
I have a headache tonight & I'm going shopping tomorrow.
Oh god no. She's found the internet.
LOL. I guess it will be a never ending battle between the Darkfollowers and the Trolls. Its like the Israeli–Palestinian conflict.
This is right on the money, there is and can be no argument against Holgranth's point.
I can however imagine working for a small game studio, putting in a lot of work and deciding, in my excitement to call this patch an expansion, I picture the AV guys saying "OK guys, we are all done, the patch is ready to roll - did I say PATCH? Hell no, guys the EXPANSION is ready to roll!!!"
*Lots of high fives, chest bumps and plate smashing occurs*
Game reviews to the drunken masses of the world
While this is purely an academic debate, I have to agree with Holgranth's point.
Using WoW as a recognizable example...A person can play without purchasing any expansion packs. They will have fewer gaming options then those who do have the expansions, but they can play none-the-less.
That same person cannot, however, play unless their client is patched up to the current version. This is independant of the optional expansion packs and is mandatory in order to play the game.
I think that's a pretty good distinction between the two.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
I imagine you can ask the same of EvE. Personally, I never questioned whether EvE's updates were expansions or not, I just let them download after they were deployed and kept on playing. I imagine many DF players will do the same with this patch/expansion.
That said, after reading Holgranth's reasoning, I am inclined to call those EvE updates patches, or "updates". As I said, it's purely an academic argument as AV is obviously using one set of standards that labels the update as an expansion and those who disagree are using a different set of standards.
As it stands, I will agree with Sean for a moment (threw up in my mouht a little right there) and say that you could call it a toaster and it wouldn't really affect anything aside from possibly marketing. But, at least in my eyes, my standard for expansion/patch will be the optional/mandatory yardstick from now on. What I call an exapnsion or patch though will really not have much, if any, impact on anyone else.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Man this is really getting sad...
Welcome to Darkfall.
Game reviews to the drunken masses of the world
Tested?
Tested?
Funny.....you don't look new.....
Ok, wait wait wait...
Vaporware this, Tasos said that, Aventurine did this, blah blah blah...
Now people are picking apart whether or not the next content update is an expansion or a patch?!?!?!
Are you effing serious? Come on people...
"Good people are good because they've come to wisdom through failure. We get very little wisdom from success, you know." William Saroyan
People always find something to complain about.
People always find something to complain about.
Unfortunately this game and Tasos have given ppl reason to complain. Sad but true. I hope things get better with it after the NA server launcehes.
Played : WOW, LOTRO, COH/COV, EQ2, SWG, and WAR.
Playing EVE Online and AOC.
Wtg for SW:TOR and WOD