I definitely got a reaction out of you all. Mind you while I obviously am not a fan of rp servers I may have been a bit over the top. The goal of this is to incite debate not riots.
Dude... your article wasn't "over the top" it was just nasty.
No I'm not an RP'er...
You wern't 'inciting debate' you're just trolling, you got your reaction now fuck off and be happy with yourself that you managed to be venomous to a large group of this site and passed it off as 'journalism'.
This article failed as hard as your game 'wish'. (As someone else stated).
Articles like this should not be featured, writers like this not hired and opinion should not be put across as fact.
While a lot of what you said was spot-on...you definitely picked the wrong group to piss off.
I believed the hype I'd read about RP servers. I rolled a character on a WoW RP realm, under the assumption there would be a more mature, less obnoxious crowd, with enforced naming rules and behavior guidelines. Not so much that I wanted to RP, or had any real interest in it, I was just sick of being perpetually annoyed in a game I enjoyed.
The hype was wrong.
While there was (marginally, at best) less of the annoying behavior that had originally sent me looking at RP realms, rolling a toon on one opened up a whole new and exciting world of annoyances that are totally unique to those server types. The vast majority of the people on those realms really -really- just need to get up and go outside for awhile. That is, if they can tear themselves away from the ERP overload. Perhaps other games are different, but WoW RP realms seem to be the stomping ground for the most socially-inept freaks I've ever had the misfortune to happen upon.
Katsma is Lithuanian for 'he who drinks used douche fluid'.
About the only thing this guy is somewhat right about are the game companies lack of enforcement and a vast majority of people not RP on a RP server. However, I think that if companies actually enforced their own RP standards we may naturally see interested RP migrating to their servers. I enjoy RP but never have found it in any MMORPG... I have even seen leet names on so called RP severs. Other than that Massey your a quack! Seriously do some real research before you write an article...
Hehe I usually pick roleplaying servers since they often have at least a naming policy, so I wont run in "Urdaddy" s and the like. (For that matter I think rp servers are lovely) Im not really enjoying the actual roleplaying, but I respect the rp-rules and I always rp in return when players approach me, staying in character isn't very hard.
I really agree!
Seeing so many people named Roxxormcownage and Lookoutbehindyou gets old. Generally the RP servers have a little bit more mature player base too I've noticed.
I definitely got a reaction out of you all. Mind you while I obviously am not a fan of rp servers I may have been a bit over the top. The goal of this is to incite debate not riots.
Well, that you did, lol. I mean, if you look at it and take into context that you aren't a fan of RP (and you were on a dev team) and factor in that many of your peers hold your view, you guys for the most part don't like RP (being too nerdy for your nerdom) and thus don't really put any real thought into things/systems you put into your game to aid in RP. You only worry about things to make people "uber" and how they fit into combat. Yes, it takes a good imagination to RP, but how interesting would the movies you like be without props? If you had to imagine the gun in the actors hand, the car they drive, the building they blow up? Not very. There have been very few games (SWG, UO, AC) that have made decent offerings in that realm.
So, you take that lack lustre approach to RP facilitation by devs in games, a serious lack of effort by devs to enforce the rulesets (I can't wait to see Sanya's excuses/pointed fingers) and combine it with an opinion piece blasting RPers saying RP servers don't work and the RPing crowd doesn't exist (factoring in you personally don't like RP and thus reason would dictate you don't hang with that crowd much less roll a character on an RP server)...yeah, it's going to be more riot and less debate, lol.
I really can't wait to read Sanya's opinion piece (I guess you succeded in that vein as you ensured your viewer base would come back for at least another day; admittedly, I wasn't offended by your writing (as my personal gaming experience gives me factual information that 99% of this writing is...anti-RP biased and not fact...and I wasn't going to stop coming here as this is probably the best hub for MMO information as far as new MMO announcements). Your lead in for her piece tomorrow lets the reader believe she stands shoulder to shoulder with your in this viewpoint and as I was on Percival the day they opened it to gamers it'll be interesting to see her spin.
RP servers do work. People do RP in open chat (and like others have pointed out to call yourself an RPer doesn't mean you have to 100% of the time (in open chat absolutely, but not 100% of logged on time or in OOC chat, etc.). The players have/continue to do their part. It's the devs and their lack of effort to support it beyond the act of throwing up an RP tagged server is where the failure and the "myth" of their support comes.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I definitely got a reaction out of you all. Mind you while I obviously am not a fan of rp servers I may have been a bit over the top. The goal of this is to incite debate not riots.
If you want debate and not riots it'd be wise not to insult a whole portion (not the major portion perhaps, but one of the portions (pve, pvp & rp)) in your article. :P
Perhaps you've had bad luck, but from the article you really come off as an asshat. I love the RP, though I dislike those who come in only to mess up the server for the RP:ers - something I've mostly noticed and encountered in AoC - and granted, not all of us RP 100% of our gametime, but we Do RP, and do it A Lot - at leat those I play. Oh, and we do it without the "thou shalt not kill" english. :P
If I ever liked an Article they wrote it was so long ago I couldn't tell you. I know the last few things I have read *ponders* Well I just think that maybe Dana should apply to be a developer with a game company. They seem to have the perfect mind-set to work for one.
Forums are great places to go debate, agree or disagree with people. It just seems if you are supposedly a "writer" you should actually write something and seem informed on the topic. You know appear to at least have a clue what you are talking about.
Forum posters (like me) can have drool making the letter in our posts smear... but there should be something slightly elevated about being a writer.
The only question is why can't I put "staff" on my block list? Honestly if they need to communicate with me they can do it outside of a forum post...
You know, Dana, I've read multiple articles of yours and I normally agree with them, but this one is so full of bias and egregious exaggerations that it's absolutely appalling. I think it should be removed as it has no basis for being thought of as factual, as you seemed to imply. I don't think I can ever possibly take you seriously after this, as it's obvious that you're willing to go to whatever lengths that you must to make a point, even if it means falsifying information. To me, your article came off as little more than a flagrant diatribe directed at anyone who has ever role-played or played on an RP server. This is hardly what I would refer to as "journalism" of any type.
While I don't currently play on an RP server, I have played on two different RP realms in WoW for a total of nearly three years, and the "unofficial" RP server on SWG.
Yes, there are the people who flock to RP servers just to grief the drama-queen role-players (the victims you described -- note that these are NOT role-players but TROUBLE-MAKERS who exist for the very same purpose as the "griefers" since you can't seem to discern the difference); yes, there are the self-proclaimed "role-players" who just want to make the game into Second Life 2.0 and "cyber "all day, but there are, believe it or not, people who just enjoy playing on a server/realm/whatever where they can immerse themselves as if they were reading a novel or watching a movie (or playing an RPG like Oblivion or KotOR). Perhaps I am a "minority" as you say, but when I played on the RP servers, most people knew me because I was someone who actually created storylines for other people to follow (I love writing, and if I had time, I would love to author a work of fiction), and I'm one of those people who reports both the "griefers" and the "cyberers." I've gotten a few of them banned, even if only temporarily, suffice to say, and I have no regrets. Oh, but wait, people like me don't exist. That's right. I MUST be someone who just wants to virtually hook-up with a troll or an orc, or maybe I just like harassing people. Yeeeeah. (If you can't detect the sarcasm, I'll point out that it's supposed to be there.)
Yes, I'll be the first to admit that there are plenty of stodgy old farts and prepubescent boys who just want to "cyber" with a hot set of pixels, but I personally, and all of my friends I used to play with, found such behavior to be both abhorrent and repulsive.
The real problem here isn't that "real" role-players don't exist; it's that they want to avoid interacting with the stereotypes you mentioned so they exclusively associate with their own (usually small) circle of friends, at least from my experience. This creates an aura of hostility and a general sense of disorganization for players who are new to the community on such a server, leaving the impression that there are no people to role-play with and/or that the role-players who do exist only wish to remain within their clique, which might be true to a degree. Sadly, it's difficult to combat this problem because, as a new player, how would you even know where to look to find these people? I found my guild simply by combing through forums and websites, but it took me a while. And I suppose I'm fortunate in the respect that I had RL friends who liked to collaboratively write stories with me, but we always included anyone who wanted to be involved, including some players who were new to the game and/or server.
I performed a little experiment not too long ago by creating a brand new character on a role-playing realm on WoW and started observing people, and at times casually approaching them in an attempt to strike up a conversation. I'll give you credit for one thing, Dana -- I was met with mostly indifference or outright hostility, although I presumed that this would be the case since most normal people on the RP servers I have played on typically keep to themselves, as I've already repeatedly emphasized. HOWEVER, while, as I said, there is a modicum of truth to the things you wrote, you have vilified people such as myself who deplore "cybering" and "annoying others" and only seek to flesh out an interactive storyline with other players. Again, we tend to keep to ourselves for the very reasons you described -- that is, to avoid people with attitudes such as yours. It's like living next-door to an annoying neighbor; I would close my windows and try to avoid him or her at all costs.
I don't know what a "hardcore" RP guild is, but if you joined a cybering guild accidentally, I pity you. I know that I was in an excellent guild that held its members to high standards while I was an officer within it, and although I can't vouch for some of the players' generally bad attitudes (every guild has rotten apples), no one EVER got away with harassing others and/or cybering, both of which were against our rules. We had an application process just as most organized guilds do, so perhaps we were simply adept at straining out the more undesirable players, such as the ones you described.
But still, as an official staff member of this website, I would hope that you would refrain from engaging in such patently obvious prejudicial behavior, or at least acknowledge that you have made some blatant generalizations. I think the article needs a disclaimer at the top stating that its contents are purely subjective if you are going to leave it in place. I expect you to hold yourself to a higher set of standards in contrast to us average posters, and I find your article to be quite disappointing on top of being offensive.
Do you like the cop who abuses his/her powers just because he/she thinks he/she can? Or what about the teacher who breaks the rules imposed by the institution at which he/she teaches? Breaches of conduct such as these are usually frowned upon, and when you hold a position of authority, you should be mindful of your position, if you ask me.
(EDIT: Corrected a number of mistakes.
OH, and I NEVER have/never will employ the use of words such as "thee" or "thou." Thanks.)
EDIT #2:
You know, after reading the original post again, I'm starting to feel as if I'm "feeding the troll" here. It's unfortunate that I should have to think this about a FEATURED article on a professional website.
I definitely got a reaction out of you all. Mind you while I obviously am not a fan of rp servers I may have been a bit over the top. The goal of this is to incite debate not riots.
Dude... your article wasn't "over the top" it was just nasty.
No I'm not an RP'er...
You wern't 'inciting debate' you're just trolling, you got your reaction now fuck off and be happy with yourself that you managed to be venomous to a large group of this site and passed it off as 'journalism'.
This article failed as hard as your game 'wish'. (As someone else stated).
Articles like this should not be featured, writers like this not hired and opinion should not be put across as fact.
Now, please, crawl into a dark place (your cupboard maybe? =] ) go into the fetal position and die.
Allow me to add to the desired reaction. The above post is quoted for emphasis, truth, righteousness, and Scripture. Not everyone is either a leet-speaking, griefing douchebag or a powerless, whiny trouble-maker. Otherwise this place would be called MMODB.com. And maybe it should be, with staffers like the author.
But still, as an official staff member of this website, I would hope that you would refrain from engaging in such patently obvious prejudicial behavior, or at least acknowledge that you have made some blatant generalizations. I think the article needs a disclaimer at the top stating that its contents are purely subjective if you are going to leave it in place. I expect you to hold yourself to a higher set of standards in contrast to us average posters, and I find your article to be quite disappointing on top of being offensive. Do you like the cop who abuses his/her powers just because he/she thinks he/she can?
I generally gravitate to the RP servers for the community sake. Being more of a casual gamer it is nice to find groups that are gernally families and such playing there.
Just becuase people are not walking around texting thees and thous does not mean they are not rp'ing. I have had many a conversation about skills, trainers, attributes and such by talking to other people in game and in an rp manner.
Thank you for the first and last article from you I will read. It was uninformative, unimaginative, vitriolic, and specutation. Do me a favor and go play / report / blog about MMO's somewhere else.
My GAWD man! Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game .com and you are gonna BASH RP'rs and RP servers? Are you really that freakin stupid? Really?
Do not make me pull out a REALLY?!?!? post on ya!
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
I definitely got a reaction out of you all. Mind you while I obviously am not a fan of rp servers I may have been a bit over the top. The goal of this is to incite debate not riots.
Dude... your article wasn't "over the top" it was just nasty.
No I'm not an RP'er...
You wern't 'inciting debate' you're just trolling, you got your reaction now fuck off and be happy with yourself that you managed to be venomous to a large group of this site and passed it off as 'journalism'.
This article failed as hard as your game 'wish'. (As someone else stated).
Articles like this should not be featured, writers like this not hired and opinion should not be put across as fact.
Now, please, crawl into a dark place (your cupboard maybe? =] ) go into the fetal position and die.
Allow me to add to the desired reaction. The above post is quoted for emphasis, truth, righteousness, and Scripture. Not everyone is either a leet-speaking, griefing douchebag or a powerless, whiny trouble-maker. Otherwise this place would be called MMODB.com. And maybe it should be, with staffers like the author.
The two posters above summarized my thoughts exactly. Excellent posts.
Ony thing I got to say is that I will never read any of yours anymore D.
MMORPG.COM lives on popularity, Its seen in manny featured articles on this site. the more responce it will draw the faster it gets feature status.
This leads to poor and bad articles like this "made for reaction /discusion ?"
No..its made for popularity but the writer obvius has fallen to the level were truth and researts, knowlidge of the subject writen on aint no longer needed.
Might aswell start wring that the holocaust never happened.. we know it hapend but
Originally posted by Dana
I definitely got a reaction out of you all. Mind you while I obviously am not a fan of rp servers I may have been a bit over the top. The goal of this is to incite debate not riots.
Seriously, that's the worst article I have ever read on MMORPG. What's with the bias? So Dana doesn't like RP'ers. Does that really qualify him for a front page rant?
I'm going to agree with many of the others that posted in pointing out the author was both generalizing and ranting for desired effect with their column. It is not surprising this saw the light of day in print however as it's a free web site and people can type up any given series of opinions with weak facts as they like.
I enjoy role play servers. Many other players do as well, but not for the perceived reasons you seem to have on the subject. The majority of friends I have met on RP servers in various games all at heart sought out such servers for the same thing - An attempt to find the more mature player base of a game. Absolutely none of us expected every player on the RP servers to "be in character" while playing in public. Get real. All we desired were two things. Just two.
An escape from seeing political, religious, and inciteful real world topics in broadcasted game chat and... Being able to create role play events and hold meetings and plan outings casually within view of the gaming public, but mostly in more remote places and not be harassed for it.
I find it hard to believe that this is too much for either you to understand and relate to after reading your lengthy tirade that never came to grips with those simple common desires, or that it's too much trouble or a "pain in the ass" for a game company to enforce their own rules set that people click on when loading the game and making characters.
The PvE server I currently play on is infected with far more perverse/sexual/political/religious propaganda/talk than the RP servers I used to play on. It's so horrible that I have all of the public chat channels turned off with the exception of /say. So don't tell me that such behavior is more pervasive on an RP server. That's utter nonsense.
Dana, I bet you are one of those people that love to get on an RP server and try to annoy the people there, aren't you? Really, the way you approached this article proves my point. Why do you have to label roleplayers as liars and whiners in the process of talking about the failures of the RP server system.
The way you talk about roleplaying shows all the prejudice the worst of the non-RP community thinks about RP. It ain't about 'thees and thous'; in fact, any serious roleplayer will correct you if you try that Ye Olde English crap (unless, of course, the setting for the world is Ye Olde England, lol). It ain't about 'playing nice', it's about playing your character, and if your character is not a nice guy, it should be played that way.
Neither does it require that you learn how to speak Orc, or Klingon, whatever. We allow ourselves to speak in the language of the day - hopefully without references to things that don't exist in the world we are playing in. Most fantasy fiction is written that way, and that's enough for all but the most hard-core.
If there were strict, true roleplaying servers, you are the kind of person that would write a column laughing at all those people who are trying to be someone else other than themselves. YOU are the one who likes to bitch and throw your prejudice around, wear it proudly like it gives YOU some kind of superiority.
You could have written this column and talked about some of the points you try to make which have some validity, but you didn't.
Can you say, FAIL?
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall
I have to express my disgust that a staff member would write such an ignorant, biased article. Beyond that everything I could think of to say has already been said about it.
But I will say that WoW is the worst MMO for RPing, even on PvE RP servers, and I am sad to see that some fellow gamers have formed such misconceptions about mmo roleplayers based on experiences in WoW. If you played nearly any other MMO's RP servers you'd find groups of mature players, usually in RP guilds, who create compelling and fun stories from in-game events/roleplaying. I am particularly fond of the Virtue server in CoX. Although it is the "unnoficial" RP server of the game, i've had loads of great experiences with the RP crowd. There are a few areas in the game where public roleplaying is very popular such as Pocket D or Atlas Park. No ones cybering, no ones talking about leet set builds in the zone chat, people are legitamately interacting with each other, in character.
And that's just speaking from what i've seen in my favorite MMO. I've also heard great things about LotRO's RP server.
Dana's article I feel, is not only ill-informed and biased, but also appallingly troll-like. I am hesistant to believe he only meant to incite debate, as that being true would require a phenomenal lack of common sense. Maybe I shouldnt put it past him, though.
Is this a joke? I had to read it twice. I though it was some weird irony to begin with, but I'm not sure any more. Seems like the author is out to troll the rp community. He has already made the picture clear what he thinks about us. Well in the next article, Dana, why not write something really nasty about the euro speaking servers or pvp servers. Its kind of hard to have a discussion regarding "rp servers being a myth" when you sucker punch us in the face with a troll article to begin with. "Wants to be a victim"... heh ...ok.
Well I play on rpg servers all the time and I do it because of :
1. Naming policy. (No more nasty leet names.)
2. Stricter rules regarding the use of chat channels. (Minimal "wtb.." "wts..." "lfg.." "lol..." "u a noob" in general chat. But I still use lol,wts,wtb(and so on) in the proper chat channels to do so in)
3. More mature and involved community. Usually a lot more high quality player/guild made events on rp servers from my own experience.
4. People care more for the lore and usually you notice this when playing on these servers.
+ much... much more
This is what rp means to me. It doesnt mean I run around "in character" 100% of the time speaking old english or run around like a "rp police" and whine about people not obeying the rules. In a sense, that is the real myth about rp servers.
And I'm not a victim or have a urge to be so. Thats just a plain stupid and insulting thing, to write, to all the people playing on these servers. I have no idea what made you write this. It must be some kind of trauma from a bad rp experience. Because the way you write about us, the rp community, in your article, make it all feel like a sick twisted version of the rp communities I have been member of the last 15-20 years. So far from fact and truth as possible, just a personal opinion based on some sort of a bad experience.
Worst gaming article( or more like a troll trolling for reactions) I have read in awhile.
gl in the future I bid you
Now Playing: LotRO:MoM Waiting for: Earthrise, The Warhammer 40k mmo Collecting dust on my shelf: Ultima Online, EverQuest, Dark Age of Camelot, Shadowbane, Lineage II, SWG, EQ2, D&D Online, Vanguard:SoH, Tabula Rasa, PoTBS, AoC, WAR
I think a lot of you have taken Dana's words too literally. Seems like he was intentionally exaggerating some of his points, maybe for...emphasis?
Anyway, he's also totally right. If you think the majority of RPers stick to their guns and roleplay well, you've either never roleplayed or you're so caught up in your own bullshit that you've actually convinced yourself that you're doing it right. In reality, there is nothing different in the way you play than the average gamer except that you don't talk out of character as much. Most people that attempt to roleplay are not convincing and don't even attempt to act out their character. They just play themselves, and manage to go half an hour or so without talking out of character ingame. Being as quiet, shy and uninteresting in a game as you are in real life is not roleplaying (sorry). I had to go through being a GM for many different groups in Pen and Paper games and explain this over and over again to people that didn't realize my campaigns were not a fucking grind for experience/stats.
Then there's a large amount of people that play on RP servers that aren't concerned so much with the whole roleplaying deal, they just want to be part of a seemingly more mature community thats devoid of distractions.
_________________________________ "Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..." -George "sniperg" Light
I dunno who it gets sent to, but if you feel like this article should be taken down from the site due to its biased and alienating nature (amongst other things), then you should shoot them a message.
I will be honest after reading the first couple of lines i stopped i just could not finish it.
I just wanted to say .. dude stop playing WoW ..... back in the day RP servers were really RP servers but now the dam WoWers got into the MMO world and everything has gone to hell.
So yes RP servers are a waste of time for the most part now but that is becuase people get bored to quick and look for something else to do other then just enjoy the game that is just the way of the internet.
So think whatever you want RP servers WAS great at one point but they are crap now. Thanks Blizzard once again for totally screwwing another part of the MMO world.
I think a lot of you have taken Dana's words too literally. Seems like he was intentionally exaggerating some of his points, maybe for...emphasis?
Anyway, he's also totally right. If you think the majority of RPers stick to their guns and roleplay well, you've either never roleplayed or you're so caught up in your own bullshit that you've actually convinced yourself that you're doing it right. In reality, there is nothing different in the way you play than the average gamer except that you don't talk out of character as much. Most people that attempt to roleplay are not convincing and don't even attempt to act out their character. They just play themselves, and manage to go half an hour or so without talking out of character ingame. Being as quiet, shy and uninteresting in a game as you are in real life is not roleplaying (sorry). I had to go through being a GM for many different groups in Pen and Paper games and explain this over and over again to people that didn't realize my campaigns were not a fucking grind for experience/stats. Then there's a large amount of people that play on RP servers that aren't concerned so much with the whole roleplaying deal, they just want to be part of a seemingly more mature community thats devoid of distractions.
Apparently it's YOU who has never role-played with a group of people with a modicum of actual interest in what they are trying to accomplish (or you're just lying, which I'm more inclined to believe). Where you get the basis for half of the crap you just spewed is unfathomable -- I NEVER role-play as a character remotely similar to myself (I usually play different races and/or the opposite gender --- heck, I've dual-boxed while role-playing, meaning I was playing more than one character at a time). I was told by many people that I enhanced their enjoyment by providing them with an interesting story in which their charactrers could participate. Yes, there are people who don't try/aren't convincing, but the vast majority of people whom I've met that were actually TRYING to play in character performed quite well and provided me with far more immersion than solo-play ever could have yielded.
Again, I'm not sure how you justify stating that " [m]ost people that attempt to roleplay are not convincing and don't even attempt to act out their character" -- you are making rash generalizations just as the article's author did. I'd seriously doubt that you've role-played nearly as much as you state you have. Yes, the random person hanging around the city might not seem convincing, but that's what guilds are for, remember? Every decent role-player whom I've met was through one guild or another.
Every game has them, no one truly uses them. This week, Dana explores the myth of role-playing servers in MMOs. Dana's columns appear every Thursday.
You’ve all heard of them. Almost every MMO has one. They’re these special servers, with special conduct rules where people are supposed to play nice, leave the real world out of it and get really into their characters. It’s a good idea and God bless the role-players out there who love them.
Do you even know what you are talking about ????
"where people are supposed to play nice". sorry but what a bs!
My words are but the whisper of a forgotten wind. Let them be lost or found as suits the seeker.
I have no doubt, aye and less than that little, that may will find echo of thy words in their own belief. And who be any other to set that resonance aside and call it false? As each eye sees it.. so let it be to that sight.
But yet and all...
<But, I am here today to tell you something. These servers are a myth. They’re not real. They’re like unicorns and Playboy bunnies. They’re an impossibility.>
Heh.. a most intriguing thing to say, for ye speak of lands that many others not woken to those lands would call the same. That they are not real. They be but myth and madness. They live only in the minds of those fools that walk them. Well.. a Fool I have been and a fool I remain. And much there is that might be said to live only in a head or heart. Love itself, or love's sister, hate. Dreams and lies both, and the very image we each bear of ourselves where no other may see it.
<That is not to say that some people do not legitimately want to role-play in peace. They exist, and God bless their souls for sticking to their guns. They are, however, such a vast minority that they probably couldn’t support more than one guild, let alone an entire server.>
Elder.., wise ye be, aye and more wise than any wisdom I will ever bear. But.. what be this ' vast minority'? . By such small mathematik as i was ever taught, by nature alone a minority may only be.. well... minor. And as to thy words of clan and world... I can only say that, indeed, in all my waking and all those lands I have walked, never hath clan been mine.. but that be old swearing and old Oath and thus a wound self dealt if wound it be.
<It’s time to face the fact that no video game, noRPG, let alone MMORPG, has ever truly fostered role-playing. It’s just the way the medium works.>
And these words are words that ring loud to all.. for not god nor land, not world nor companion can foster the demon-child ye call RP. For it is a thing that is in the head and heart, in the will and word... and comes from within or does not come at all.
If I would stand against any word ye have spoken, and evern were I to do so, let no word of mine be taken ill or set to weight, then this I would say.
The lands called RP are not lands where all is RP. They be but lands where those poor fools and children of madness that seek to express natures not of the land called Real may wake, may dance... may _be_... with some small less ire and ill, fire and disdain from those about them than in those lands not called RP.
To seek that all must be of one nature.. that other natures be less than tolerable... this is what the poor lost lands seek if they seek any thing at all.. or such is my view. But then...
... my words are but the whisper of a forgotten wind. Let them be lost or found as suits the seeker.
One called... many things, in may places... and no few of them curses.
Comments
Dude... your article wasn't "over the top" it was just nasty.
No I'm not an RP'er...
You wern't 'inciting debate' you're just trolling, you got your reaction now fuck off and be happy with yourself that you managed to be venomous to a large group of this site and passed it off as 'journalism'.
This article failed as hard as your game 'wish'. (As someone else stated).
Articles like this should not be featured, writers like this not hired and opinion should not be put across as fact.
[Mod Edit]
While a lot of what you said was spot-on...you definitely picked the wrong group to piss off.
I believed the hype I'd read about RP servers. I rolled a character on a WoW RP realm, under the assumption there would be a more mature, less obnoxious crowd, with enforced naming rules and behavior guidelines. Not so much that I wanted to RP, or had any real interest in it, I was just sick of being perpetually annoyed in a game I enjoyed.
The hype was wrong.
While there was (marginally, at best) less of the annoying behavior that had originally sent me looking at RP realms, rolling a toon on one opened up a whole new and exciting world of annoyances that are totally unique to those server types. The vast majority of the people on those realms really -really- just need to get up and go outside for awhile. That is, if they can tear themselves away from the ERP overload. Perhaps other games are different, but WoW RP realms seem to be the stomping ground for the most socially-inept freaks I've ever had the misfortune to happen upon.
Katsma is Lithuanian for 'he who drinks used douche fluid'.
About the only thing this guy is somewhat right about are the game companies lack of enforcement and a vast majority of people not RP on a RP server. However, I think that if companies actually enforced their own RP standards we may naturally see interested RP migrating to their servers. I enjoy RP but never have found it in any MMORPG... I have even seen leet names on so called RP severs. Other than that Massey your a quack! Seriously do some real research before you write an article...
I really agree!
Seeing so many people named Roxxormcownage and Lookoutbehindyou gets old. Generally the RP servers have a little bit more mature player base too I've noticed.
Well, that you did, lol. I mean, if you look at it and take into context that you aren't a fan of RP (and you were on a dev team) and factor in that many of your peers hold your view, you guys for the most part don't like RP (being too nerdy for your nerdom) and thus don't really put any real thought into things/systems you put into your game to aid in RP. You only worry about things to make people "uber" and how they fit into combat. Yes, it takes a good imagination to RP, but how interesting would the movies you like be without props? If you had to imagine the gun in the actors hand, the car they drive, the building they blow up? Not very. There have been very few games (SWG, UO, AC) that have made decent offerings in that realm.
So, you take that lack lustre approach to RP facilitation by devs in games, a serious lack of effort by devs to enforce the rulesets (I can't wait to see Sanya's excuses/pointed fingers) and combine it with an opinion piece blasting RPers saying RP servers don't work and the RPing crowd doesn't exist (factoring in you personally don't like RP and thus reason would dictate you don't hang with that crowd much less roll a character on an RP server)...yeah, it's going to be more riot and less debate, lol.
I really can't wait to read Sanya's opinion piece (I guess you succeded in that vein as you ensured your viewer base would come back for at least another day; admittedly, I wasn't offended by your writing (as my personal gaming experience gives me factual information that 99% of this writing is...anti-RP biased and not fact...and I wasn't going to stop coming here as this is probably the best hub for MMO information as far as new MMO announcements). Your lead in for her piece tomorrow lets the reader believe she stands shoulder to shoulder with your in this viewpoint and as I was on Percival the day they opened it to gamers it'll be interesting to see her spin.
RP servers do work. People do RP in open chat (and like others have pointed out to call yourself an RPer doesn't mean you have to 100% of the time (in open chat absolutely, but not 100% of logged on time or in OOC chat, etc.). The players have/continue to do their part. It's the devs and their lack of effort to support it beyond the act of throwing up an RP tagged server is where the failure and the "myth" of their support comes.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
If you want debate and not riots it'd be wise not to insult a whole portion (not the major portion perhaps, but one of the portions (pve, pvp & rp)) in your article. :P
Perhaps you've had bad luck, but from the article you really come off as an asshat. I love the RP, though I dislike those who come in only to mess up the server for the RP:ers - something I've mostly noticed and encountered in AoC - and granted, not all of us RP 100% of our gametime, but we Do RP, and do it A Lot - at leat those I play. Oh, and we do it without the "thou shalt not kill" english. :P
If I ever liked an Article they wrote it was so long ago I couldn't tell you. I know the last few things I have read *ponders* Well I just think that maybe Dana should apply to be a developer with a game company. They seem to have the perfect mind-set to work for one.
Forums are great places to go debate, agree or disagree with people. It just seems if you are supposedly a "writer" you should actually write something and seem informed on the topic. You know appear to at least have a clue what you are talking about.
Forum posters (like me) can have drool making the letter in our posts smear... but there should be something slightly elevated about being a writer.
The only question is why can't I put "staff" on my block list? Honestly if they need to communicate with me they can do it outside of a forum post...
You know, Dana, I've read multiple articles of yours and I normally agree with them, but this one is so full of bias and egregious exaggerations that it's absolutely appalling. I think it should be removed as it has no basis for being thought of as factual, as you seemed to imply. I don't think I can ever possibly take you seriously after this, as it's obvious that you're willing to go to whatever lengths that you must to make a point, even if it means falsifying information. To me, your article came off as little more than a flagrant diatribe directed at anyone who has ever role-played or played on an RP server. This is hardly what I would refer to as "journalism" of any type.
While I don't currently play on an RP server, I have played on two different RP realms in WoW for a total of nearly three years, and the "unofficial" RP server on SWG.
Yes, there are the people who flock to RP servers just to grief the drama-queen role-players (the victims you described -- note that these are NOT role-players but TROUBLE-MAKERS who exist for the very same purpose as the "griefers" since you can't seem to discern the difference); yes, there are the self-proclaimed "role-players" who just want to make the game into Second Life 2.0 and "cyber "all day, but there are, believe it or not, people who just enjoy playing on a server/realm/whatever where they can immerse themselves as if they were reading a novel or watching a movie (or playing an RPG like Oblivion or KotOR). Perhaps I am a "minority" as you say, but when I played on the RP servers, most people knew me because I was someone who actually created storylines for other people to follow (I love writing, and if I had time, I would love to author a work of fiction), and I'm one of those people who reports both the "griefers" and the "cyberers." I've gotten a few of them banned, even if only temporarily, suffice to say, and I have no regrets. Oh, but wait, people like me don't exist. That's right. I MUST be someone who just wants to virtually hook-up with a troll or an orc, or maybe I just like harassing people. Yeeeeah. (If you can't detect the sarcasm, I'll point out that it's supposed to be there.)
Yes, I'll be the first to admit that there are plenty of stodgy old farts and prepubescent boys who just want to "cyber" with a hot set of pixels, but I personally, and all of my friends I used to play with, found such behavior to be both abhorrent and repulsive.
The real problem here isn't that "real" role-players don't exist; it's that they want to avoid interacting with the stereotypes you mentioned so they exclusively associate with their own (usually small) circle of friends, at least from my experience. This creates an aura of hostility and a general sense of disorganization for players who are new to the community on such a server, leaving the impression that there are no people to role-play with and/or that the role-players who do exist only wish to remain within their clique, which might be true to a degree. Sadly, it's difficult to combat this problem because, as a new player, how would you even know where to look to find these people? I found my guild simply by combing through forums and websites, but it took me a while. And I suppose I'm fortunate in the respect that I had RL friends who liked to collaboratively write stories with me, but we always included anyone who wanted to be involved, including some players who were new to the game and/or server.
I performed a little experiment not too long ago by creating a brand new character on a role-playing realm on WoW and started observing people, and at times casually approaching them in an attempt to strike up a conversation. I'll give you credit for one thing, Dana -- I was met with mostly indifference or outright hostility, although I presumed that this would be the case since most normal people on the RP servers I have played on typically keep to themselves, as I've already repeatedly emphasized. HOWEVER, while, as I said, there is a modicum of truth to the things you wrote, you have vilified people such as myself who deplore "cybering" and "annoying others" and only seek to flesh out an interactive storyline with other players. Again, we tend to keep to ourselves for the very reasons you described -- that is, to avoid people with attitudes such as yours. It's like living next-door to an annoying neighbor; I would close my windows and try to avoid him or her at all costs.
I don't know what a "hardcore" RP guild is, but if you joined a cybering guild accidentally, I pity you. I know that I was in an excellent guild that held its members to high standards while I was an officer within it, and although I can't vouch for some of the players' generally bad attitudes (every guild has rotten apples), no one EVER got away with harassing others and/or cybering, both of which were against our rules. We had an application process just as most organized guilds do, so perhaps we were simply adept at straining out the more undesirable players, such as the ones you described.
But still, as an official staff member of this website, I would hope that you would refrain from engaging in such patently obvious prejudicial behavior, or at least acknowledge that you have made some blatant generalizations. I think the article needs a disclaimer at the top stating that its contents are purely subjective if you are going to leave it in place. I expect you to hold yourself to a higher set of standards in contrast to us average posters, and I find your article to be quite disappointing on top of being offensive.
Do you like the cop who abuses his/her powers just because he/she thinks he/she can? Or what about the teacher who breaks the rules imposed by the institution at which he/she teaches? Breaches of conduct such as these are usually frowned upon, and when you hold a position of authority, you should be mindful of your position, if you ask me.
(EDIT: Corrected a number of mistakes.
OH, and I NEVER have/never will employ the use of words such as "thee" or "thou." Thanks.)
EDIT #2:
You know, after reading the original post again, I'm starting to feel as if I'm "feeding the troll" here. It's unfortunate that I should have to think this about a FEATURED article on a professional website.
Dude... your article wasn't "over the top" it was just nasty.
No I'm not an RP'er...
You wern't 'inciting debate' you're just trolling, you got your reaction now fuck off and be happy with yourself that you managed to be venomous to a large group of this site and passed it off as 'journalism'.
This article failed as hard as your game 'wish'. (As someone else stated).
Articles like this should not be featured, writers like this not hired and opinion should not be put across as fact.
Now, please, crawl into a dark place (your cupboard maybe? =] ) go into the fetal position and die.
Allow me to add to the desired reaction. The above post is quoted for emphasis, truth, righteousness, and Scripture. Not everyone is either a leet-speaking, griefing douchebag or a powerless, whiny trouble-maker. Otherwise this place would be called MMODB.com. And maybe it should be, with staffers like the author.
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
QFT.
Edit:- Kylrathin, many thanks.
I generally gravitate to the RP servers for the community sake. Being more of a casual gamer it is nice to find groups that are gernally families and such playing there.
Just becuase people are not walking around texting thees and thous does not mean they are not rp'ing. I have had many a conversation about skills, trainers, attributes and such by talking to other people in game and in an rp manner.
Thank you for the first and last article from you I will read. It was uninformative, unimaginative, vitriolic, and specutation. Do me a favor and go play / report / blog about MMO's somewhere else.
My GAWD man! Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game .com and you are gonna BASH RP'rs and RP servers? Are you really that freakin stupid? Really?
Do not make me pull out a REALLY?!?!? post on ya!
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
Dude... your article wasn't "over the top" it was just nasty.
No I'm not an RP'er...
You wern't 'inciting debate' you're just trolling, you got your reaction now fuck off and be happy with yourself that you managed to be venomous to a large group of this site and passed it off as 'journalism'.
This article failed as hard as your game 'wish'. (As someone else stated).
Articles like this should not be featured, writers like this not hired and opinion should not be put across as fact.
Now, please, crawl into a dark place (your cupboard maybe? =] ) go into the fetal position and die.
Allow me to add to the desired reaction. The above post is quoted for emphasis, truth, righteousness, and Scripture. Not everyone is either a leet-speaking, griefing douchebag or a powerless, whiny trouble-maker. Otherwise this place would be called MMODB.com. And maybe it should be, with staffers like the author.
The two posters above summarized my thoughts exactly. Excellent posts.
Ony thing I got to say is that I will never read any of yours anymore D.
MMORPG.COM lives on popularity, Its seen in manny featured articles on this site. the more responce it will draw the faster it gets feature status.
This leads to poor and bad articles like this "made for reaction /discusion ?"
No..its made for popularity but the writer obvius has fallen to the level were truth and researts, knowlidge of the subject writen on aint no longer needed.
Might aswell start wring that the holocaust never happened.. we know it hapend but
Originally posted by Dana
I definitely got a reaction out of you all. Mind you while I obviously am not a fan of rp servers I may have been a bit over the top. The goal of this is to incite debate not riots.
Don't mods ban people for trolling?
Seriously, that's the worst article I have ever read on MMORPG. What's with the bias? So Dana doesn't like RP'ers. Does that really qualify him for a front page rant?
I'm going to agree with many of the others that posted in pointing out the author was both generalizing and ranting for desired effect with their column. It is not surprising this saw the light of day in print however as it's a free web site and people can type up any given series of opinions with weak facts as they like.
I enjoy role play servers. Many other players do as well, but not for the perceived reasons you seem to have on the subject. The majority of friends I have met on RP servers in various games all at heart sought out such servers for the same thing - An attempt to find the more mature player base of a game. Absolutely none of us expected every player on the RP servers to "be in character" while playing in public. Get real. All we desired were two things. Just two.
An escape from seeing political, religious, and inciteful real world topics in broadcasted game chat and... Being able to create role play events and hold meetings and plan outings casually within view of the gaming public, but mostly in more remote places and not be harassed for it.
I find it hard to believe that this is too much for either you to understand and relate to after reading your lengthy tirade that never came to grips with those simple common desires, or that it's too much trouble or a "pain in the ass" for a game company to enforce their own rules set that people click on when loading the game and making characters.
Best of luck with your next posting attempt.
Oh, and one more addendum for future reference:
The PvE server I currently play on is infected with far more perverse/sexual/political/religious propaganda/talk than the RP servers I used to play on. It's so horrible that I have all of the public chat channels turned off with the exception of /say. So don't tell me that such behavior is more pervasive on an RP server. That's utter nonsense.
Dana, I bet you are one of those people that love to get on an RP server and try to annoy the people there, aren't you? Really, the way you approached this article proves my point. Why do you have to label roleplayers as liars and whiners in the process of talking about the failures of the RP server system.
The way you talk about roleplaying shows all the prejudice the worst of the non-RP community thinks about RP. It ain't about 'thees and thous'; in fact, any serious roleplayer will correct you if you try that Ye Olde English crap (unless, of course, the setting for the world is Ye Olde England, lol). It ain't about 'playing nice', it's about playing your character, and if your character is not a nice guy, it should be played that way.
Neither does it require that you learn how to speak Orc, or Klingon, whatever. We allow ourselves to speak in the language of the day - hopefully without references to things that don't exist in the world we are playing in. Most fantasy fiction is written that way, and that's enough for all but the most hard-core.
If there were strict, true roleplaying servers, you are the kind of person that would write a column laughing at all those people who are trying to be someone else other than themselves. YOU are the one who likes to bitch and throw your prejudice around, wear it proudly like it gives YOU some kind of superiority.
You could have written this column and talked about some of the points you try to make which have some validity, but you didn't.
Can you say, FAIL?
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall
I will now list every occasion in which I have seen a roleplayer using old english seriously:
I have to express my disgust that a staff member would write such an ignorant, biased article. Beyond that everything I could think of to say has already been said about it.
But I will say that WoW is the worst MMO for RPing, even on PvE RP servers, and I am sad to see that some fellow gamers have formed such misconceptions about mmo roleplayers based on experiences in WoW. If you played nearly any other MMO's RP servers you'd find groups of mature players, usually in RP guilds, who create compelling and fun stories from in-game events/roleplaying. I am particularly fond of the Virtue server in CoX. Although it is the "unnoficial" RP server of the game, i've had loads of great experiences with the RP crowd. There are a few areas in the game where public roleplaying is very popular such as Pocket D or Atlas Park. No ones cybering, no ones talking about leet set builds in the zone chat, people are legitamately interacting with each other, in character.
And that's just speaking from what i've seen in my favorite MMO. I've also heard great things about LotRO's RP server.
Dana's article I feel, is not only ill-informed and biased, but also appallingly troll-like. I am hesistant to believe he only meant to incite debate, as that being true would require a phenomenal lack of common sense. Maybe I shouldnt put it past him, though.
EDIT: Thrage, I see what you did thar!
Is this a joke? I had to read it twice. I though it was some weird irony to begin with, but I'm not sure any more. Seems like the author is out to troll the rp community. He has already made the picture clear what he thinks about us. Well in the next article, Dana, why not write something really nasty about the euro speaking servers or pvp servers. Its kind of hard to have a discussion regarding "rp servers being a myth" when you sucker punch us in the face with a troll article to begin with. "Wants to be a victim"... heh ...ok.
Well I play on rpg servers all the time and I do it because of :
1. Naming policy. (No more nasty leet names.)
2. Stricter rules regarding the use of chat channels. (Minimal "wtb.." "wts..." "lfg.." "lol..." "u a noob" in general chat. But I still use lol,wts,wtb(and so on) in the proper chat channels to do so in)
3. More mature and involved community. Usually a lot more high quality player/guild made events on rp servers from my own experience.
4. People care more for the lore and usually you notice this when playing on these servers.
+ much... much more
This is what rp means to me. It doesnt mean I run around "in character" 100% of the time speaking old english or run around like a "rp police" and whine about people not obeying the rules. In a sense, that is the real myth about rp servers.
And I'm not a victim or have a urge to be so. Thats just a plain stupid and insulting thing, to write, to all the people playing on these servers. I have no idea what made you write this. It must be some kind of trauma from a bad rp experience. Because the way you write about us, the rp community, in your article, make it all feel like a sick twisted version of the rp communities I have been member of the last 15-20 years. So far from fact and truth as possible, just a personal opinion based on some sort of a bad experience.
Worst gaming article( or more like a troll trolling for reactions) I have read in awhile.
gl in the future I bid you
Now Playing: LotRO:MoM Waiting for: Earthrise, The Warhammer 40k mmo
Collecting dust on my shelf: Ultima Online, EverQuest, Dark Age of Camelot, Shadowbane, Lineage II, SWG, EQ2, D&D Online, Vanguard:SoH, Tabula Rasa, PoTBS, AoC, WAR
I think a lot of you have taken Dana's words too literally. Seems like he was intentionally exaggerating some of his points, maybe for...emphasis?
Anyway, he's also totally right. If you think the majority of RPers stick to their guns and roleplay well, you've either never roleplayed or you're so caught up in your own bullshit that you've actually convinced yourself that you're doing it right. In reality, there is nothing different in the way you play than the average gamer except that you don't talk out of character as much. Most people that attempt to roleplay are not convincing and don't even attempt to act out their character. They just play themselves, and manage to go half an hour or so without talking out of character ingame. Being as quiet, shy and uninteresting in a game as you are in real life is not roleplaying (sorry). I had to go through being a GM for many different groups in Pen and Paper games and explain this over and over again to people that didn't realize my campaigns were not a fucking grind for experience/stats.
Then there's a large amount of people that play on RP servers that aren't concerned so much with the whole roleplaying deal, they just want to be part of a seemingly more mature community thats devoid of distractions.
_________________________________
"Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..."
-George "sniperg" Light
I just sent a message under the "Contact Us" button down below.
www.mmorpg.com/contactus.cfm
I dunno who it gets sent to, but if you feel like this article should be taken down from the site due to its biased and alienating nature (amongst other things), then you should shoot them a message.
I will be honest after reading the first couple of lines i stopped i just could not finish it.
I just wanted to say .. dude stop playing WoW ..... back in the day RP servers were really RP servers but now the dam WoWers got into the MMO world and everything has gone to hell.
So yes RP servers are a waste of time for the most part now but that is becuase people get bored to quick and look for something else to do other then just enjoy the game that is just the way of the internet.
So think whatever you want RP servers WAS great at one point but they are crap now. Thanks Blizzard once again for totally screwwing another part of the MMO world.
Apparently it's YOU who has never role-played with a group of people with a modicum of actual interest in what they are trying to accomplish (or you're just lying, which I'm more inclined to believe). Where you get the basis for half of the crap you just spewed is unfathomable -- I NEVER role-play as a character remotely similar to myself (I usually play different races and/or the opposite gender --- heck, I've dual-boxed while role-playing, meaning I was playing more than one character at a time). I was told by many people that I enhanced their enjoyment by providing them with an interesting story in which their charactrers could participate. Yes, there are people who don't try/aren't convincing, but the vast majority of people whom I've met that were actually TRYING to play in character performed quite well and provided me with far more immersion than solo-play ever could have yielded.
Again, I'm not sure how you justify stating that " [m]ost people that attempt to roleplay are not convincing and don't even attempt to act out their character" -- you are making rash generalizations just as the article's author did. I'd seriously doubt that you've role-played nearly as much as you state you have. Yes, the random person hanging around the city might not seem convincing, but that's what guilds are for, remember? Every decent role-player whom I've met was through one guild or another.
Do you even know what you are talking about ????
"where people are supposed to play nice". sorry but what a bs!
Elder and wise...
My words are but the whisper of a forgotten wind. Let them be lost or found as suits the seeker.
I have no doubt, aye and less than that little, that may will find echo of thy words in their own belief. And who be any other to set that resonance aside and call it false? As each eye sees it.. so let it be to that sight.
But yet and all...
<But, I am here today to tell you something. These servers are a myth. They’re not real. They’re like unicorns and Playboy bunnies. They’re an impossibility.>
Heh.. a most intriguing thing to say, for ye speak of lands that many others not woken to those lands would call the same. That they are not real. They be but myth and madness. They live only in the minds of those fools that walk them. Well.. a Fool I have been and a fool I remain. And much there is that might be said to live only in a head or heart. Love itself, or love's sister, hate. Dreams and lies both, and the very image we each bear of ourselves where no other may see it.
<That is not to say that some people do not legitimately want to role-play in peace. They exist, and God bless their souls for sticking to their guns. They are, however, such a vast minority that they probably couldn’t support more than one guild, let alone an entire server.>
Elder.., wise ye be, aye and more wise than any wisdom I will ever bear. But.. what be this ' vast minority'?
. By such small mathematik as i was ever taught, by nature alone a minority may only be.. well... minor. And as to thy words of clan and world... I can only say that, indeed, in all my waking and all those lands I have walked, never hath clan been mine.. but that be old swearing and old Oath and thus a wound self dealt if wound it be.
<It’s time to face the fact that no video game, noRPG, let alone MMORPG, has ever truly fostered role-playing. It’s just the way the medium works.>
And these words are words that ring loud to all.. for not god nor land, not world nor companion can foster the demon-child ye call RP. For it is a thing that is in the head and heart, in the will and word... and comes from within or does not come at all.
If I would stand against any word ye have spoken, and evern were I to do so, let no word of mine be taken ill or set to weight, then this I would say.
The lands called RP are not lands where all is RP. They be but lands where those poor fools and children of madness that seek to express natures not of the land called Real may wake, may dance... may _be_... with some small less ire and ill, fire and disdain from those about them than in those lands not called RP.
To seek that all must be of one nature.. that other natures be less than tolerable... this is what the poor lost lands seek if they seek any thing at all.. or such is my view. But then...
... my words are but the whisper of a forgotten wind. Let them be lost or found as suits the seeker.
One called... many things, in may places... and no few of them curses.
A Sad Old RPer (tm)