I really hope SE realizes people have social lives this time around..

raystantz

I loved FFXI..

but hated it as well..

I like grouping, I'd rather group...

 

But, there were so many things in FFXI that would deter you from doing so, it made for some very unfun times.

 

I resubbed to it the other day just because of the FF14 announcement. Thought I would try to finish up the storylines. I'll still be trying in 2010 when 14 comes out.

 

Everything still takes ages. If you get a group invite, there's still travel time.. which is still slow compared to most other games even if you have the warps..etc.  Then there's time changing jobs or waiting on other members to get there.

 

The other night, I had wasted an hr of my playtime just trying to get to the group, and get started. We killed 4 mobs before someone said "I gotta go". And the process started all the way over. Fields of Valor is used more by people grouping than it is by soloers.. to give an extra boost. Its easier to just sit in the zone you want to group in and do the old school wait game.

I have about 3 hrs to play each night, and I like to be "playing" for that entire 3 hrs. Its not fun waiting around. I just hope that FF14 gives real options to solo. Not saying it should be like WoW.. but there should be convenient options of things to do while you wait for a group so that you don't feel like you've wasted your playtime.

ThomasN7

I honestly do not think companies take into consideration wether or not people have social lives. Their objective is to make a good game and make money. That is all they are concerned about, oh and keeping the paying customers happy ofcourse.

bleyzwun

Originally posted by SaintViktor


I honestly do not think companies take into consideration wether or not people have social lives. Their objective is to make a good game and make money. That is all they are concerned about, oh and keeping the paying customers happy ofcourse.

 

I really think they should.  FFXI was my first MMO, and I really had fun playing, but I'm with OP.  I left to play WoW because it took me forever to get anything done most of the time.  If they don't take people's social lives into consideration, they will not keep many paying customers happy.  This is the reason for WoW's success.  Sure WoW has many grinds, but things can be done without a group.

I'm not saying SE should make the game like WoW, but the game needs more options for people waiting, or trying to start a group.  I remember I used to farm the closest zone to where I wanted to party.  I would have much rather been gaining some sort of exp while farming. 

Either way, I'm interested to see how this will differ from 11.

raystantz

I mean, this last attempt. I really wanted to finish the storylines.

 

I'd really feel bad for someone having to start from level 1 now. I play MMO's at night time, as my alternative to other non productive things like TV.. etc. Its my relax time, where I don't do anything. Any other time, I'm doing something constructive with my time. WoW was successful because it gave people options, and made it so that even if you only had a few minutes to play.. you could do so and still see progression. FFXI is ridiculously hard (not challenging) to progress through, not because the content is hard... but because of the time you need to spend doing it. Back in the day, some missions would take nearly 6-8 hrs to complete. I have those occassions where I have a day off or a lazy day.. where I won't do anything all day but play games.. but that is rare, and I usually don't spend all 8 hrs on one game.

In games like WoW, LOTRO, EQ2, AOC, WAR.. I can login for 2-3 hrs and when I log, I will have felt like I accomplished something for the night. In FFXI I might be lucky enough to get a group and "start" leveling at that time..

Here's a typical night in FFXI...

Log in - 2-3 minutes (Playonline is slow)

Put up flag and wait.....

If I get an invite fairly quickly... I'm told the group is partying in lets say.. Qufim.

Uh oh.. I'm in Sandy. If I don't have the outpost warp there, or the airship pass, then I have to trek there. Choco will help a tiny bit.

If I have the warp, I can go straight there. But, then I may get there and we are waiting on someone else.. who DIDN'T have the warp. We can't summon them, so we are stuck waiting.

Everyone finally gets there.. oh no.. I chose the wrong sub job...

so now we have to wait for said person to run all the way back to Jeuno to change jobs. Oh no... there's a weapon in the way. Now we have to wait for them to be able to get by. By now, we've wasted at least 30 minutes.

Party finally starts.. hey, I gotta go in 20 minutes. Great... I just spent more time waiting to get this party started than it will actually last.

 

Most people will tell you to do FOV or craft or something while you wait for a group. Which would be great if you could do it in the zone your waiting for a group in. But you can't, and this still doesn't change having to wait on other people.

Forced grouping doesn't bother me.. its the inconveniences that are there that make it so difficult to do. It should be easy to get everyone together to get started. Make summon items, or put a summon stone (ala WoW). The game isn't "hard" its just time consuming, and for people like me.. with a wife, a 2 year old, a band, and other hobbies. I'm looking to have fun in the time I am playing.. even if its only 2 hrs. FF14 needs to address this issue.

whatamidoing

I agree. It shouldn't be a chore to get a group together and get everyone in the same place. You should be able to have something meaningful to do while looking for a party or when you don't have enough time to spend in a party. I love the gameplay being group based but there definitely needs to be options and thankfully this is exactly what they said they'll be doing. We'll just have to wait and see exactly how that manifests itself.

Omrie

Originally posted by whatamidoing


I agree. It shouldn't be a chore to get a group together and get everyone in the same place. You should be able to have something meaningful to do while looking for a party or when you don't have enough time to spend in a party. I love the gameplay being group based but there definitely needs to be options and thankfully this is exactly what they said they'll be doing. We'll just have to wait and see exactly how that manifests itself.

 

Yeah, I feel the same

I like group play when I feel I have the time (which is usually about 3-4 hours). I've got some high hopes for this game; I mean I really liked FFXI, but I just never really had the time to do anything.

I don't want them to turn this game into a clone of another game, however,  I hope they can somehow manage to keep the same play style of FFXI, but just make it not as much time consuming.

 

Arkyst

Not to come off as rude or seem like a devils advocate but this appears to be a growing theme within this community. I can fully understand your notion of time constraints vs. down time inside a particular game. Along the same line though I can just as easily stand on the other side of the fence.

Many threads are created, amongst each game forum, with this very topic. I agree that individuals that adhere to a smaller playtime need to be acknowledged with such options that many of you have brought to attention. Even still when we stand on the other side there is a hefty group of individuals that care to play on a much grander scale time wise and doing such would be a hindrance to their play style.

A single game has not reached a peak where they may accommodate to both short and long play styles successfully. Somewhere along the development the design team pads one over the other and rubs someone the wrong way.

Long story short I suppose my point would be for folks who would enjoy none/very few time sinks there is an equal amount that favors them in one form or another.

As the gaming community I believe it is not up to us to demand one style over another. More so it is our duty to step back and look at each game respectively and decide if we are willing to devote the amount of time that was asked of us instead. In the end there will be several selections for each group I think we should stop demanding each one adheres to the one mass style…whichever that may be.

 

raystantz

Originally posted by Arkyst


Not to come off as rude or seem like a devils advocate but this appears to be a growing theme within this community. I can fully understand your notion of time constraints vs. down time inside a particular game. Along the same line though I can just as easily stand on the other side of the fence.
Many threads are created, amongst each game forum, with this very topic. I agree that individuals that adhere to a smaller playtime need to be acknowledged with such options that many of you have brought to attention. Even still when we stand on the other side there is a hefty group of individuals that care to play on a much grander scale time wise and doing such would be a hindrance to their play style.
A single game has not reached a peak where they may accommodate to both short and long play styles successfully. Somewhere along the development the design team pads one over the other and rubs someone the wrong way.
Long story short I suppose my point would be for folks who would enjoy none/very few time sinks there is an equal amount that favors them in one form or another.
As the gaming community I believe it is not up to us to demand one style over another. More so it is our duty to step back and look at each game respectively and decide if we are willing to devote the amount of time that was asked of us instead. In the end there will be several selections for each group I think we should stop demanding each one adheres to the one mass style…whichever that may be.

 

Your missing my point.

While we can argue all day about what is normal and isn't normal. I am saying, that there is no reason at all to have "features" in a game that do nothing more than make things take outrageous amounts of time. There can be challenge and fun, without it being plain  annoying.

For example... If your going to make me stand on a boat for 15 minutes, giving me something to do on the boat besides fish and stare at the same 4 backdrops.

If your going to make me run across a zone for 30 minutes, give me mobs I can kill on the way through it.

Don't make things take forever for the sake of them taking forever. Noone NEEDS to sit at a pc for 8 hrs in one sitting. While people will argue with me that this is "their" chosen playstyle. I can almost guarantee you that this is not the standard, but the minority. Most of us have 8 hr a day 40 hr a week jobs, and even families to attend to. I'm just saying that everything should have equal footing. Your ability to spend 8 hrs at one sitting, should not trump my 3 hrs. Just because you have more time to do "nothing" than I do, shouldn't give you advantages in a game.

Thats all we are asking for.  As long as the game focuses on all groups, and doesn't cater to one.... then its all gravy.

There is just no logical reason why anything in ANY game shoudl require more than 3-4 hr time blocks.

I mean come on. Go outside or something.

And, if you have to add things that take that long, at least make it so they can be split up into many sessions. I know of several events in FFXI that cannot be done with 4 hrs of playtime. And to me thats just ludicrous.

sorrowfool

Yeah, that's kinda what turned me off about FFXI. You had to have a group to do anything, and it took forever to find one. Even if you were a job that was wanted. I remember spending 2-3 hours waiting for a group, just sitting in town, doing absolutely nothing. And that was as a redmage. You couldn't hang around town because then it would take you 10-15 mins to get to the group. Imagine a SAM or DRG trying to get a group at off hours. Seemed like every group had a specific job that was wanted. it was PLD, RDM, BRD, BLM, WHM, and then the other 6 classes had to fight for the last spot. Even then there was usually a preference depending on what was being grinded.

Arkyst

Your right and yes I did misunderstand your original point, but some of my statements are still valid and several seem to be within the page of your newest post.

I did make the assumption that you were asking for no time sinks what-so-ever in every sense of the word. Still I believe your stance of “features” lies within the same bed. The developer may add features that can actively fill your time even while doing the mundane but it remains on the same page as taking forever for that very sake. Filling an area with monsters to kill while running a 30-minute terrain or something more than fishing because the boat is a 15-minute ride is still that, filler. However fun or entertaining it may be it still qualifies as filler.

Now I do agree no one needs to sit at a computer for 8hrs or more, especially every day of the week. I myself would lose my sanity if that were asked of me for my career let alone free time. Unfortunately this is the practice for some and very possibly more than you or I may realize. Which was truly my only point to the earlier reply. I only brought this up for the reason stated earlier to this hot topic creeping up. Many of every forum raise this query but seem to push anyone of the polar opposite style to the background. For each that enjoys their short trysts within each world there are those that delve much deeper both time and experience. In lies the heart of the problem. With your 3hrs of dedicated time you wish to receive your glory as much as the gentleman that has devoted his entire weekend inside the realm.

By your standards this is quite impossible. For you to not feel hindered by your play time the folks that enjoy a much larger session will need to be handicapped to remain at the same standard as yourself. You stated that it is imperative that your 3hrs not be “trumped” by the next player’s 8hrs. On that same page the other gentlemen will wish his 8-9hrs to amount to 3 times that of yours. So your statement that he should not achieve more is absurd.

Which brings me right back to the point. To cater to both styles as you suggest the developer will need to fill each play session with a challenge. If they were to cap all actives to completion within 3hr blocks this might feel like a let down to Mr. 9hr. As I said no game will be successful to both styles. If it’s to short or easy one group suffers disappointment if it’s long or difficult some are left out.

I understand we all enjoy hobbies in our own manner, but when we demand that they cater to our group we only turn a blind eye to others needs. Let the developer create their game, if it earns your devotion then take upon yourself to decide the appropriate time worth. If you truly enjoy it then you will get everything you want from it just the same as the next regardless of play time.

 

Creasian

Originally posted by raystantz

Originally posted by Arkyst


Not to come off as rude or seem like a devils advocate but this appears to be a growing theme within this community. I can fully understand your notion of time constraints vs. down time inside a particular game. Along the same line though I can just as easily stand on the other side of the fence.
Many threads are created, amongst each game forum, with this very topic. I agree that individuals that adhere to a smaller playtime need to be acknowledged with such options that many of you have brought to attention. Even still when we stand on the other side there is a hefty group of individuals that care to play on a much grander scale time wise and doing such would be a hindrance to their play style.
A single game has not reached a peak where they may accommodate to both short and long play styles successfully. Somewhere along the development the design team pads one over the other and rubs someone the wrong way.
Long story short I suppose my point would be for folks who would enjoy none/very few time sinks there is an equal amount that favors them in one form or another.
As the gaming community I believe it is not up to us to demand one style over another. More so it is our duty to step back and look at each game respectively and decide if we are willing to devote the amount of time that was asked of us instead. In the end there will be several selections for each group I think we should stop demanding each one adheres to the one mass style…whichever that may be.

 

Your missing my point.

While we can argue all day about what is normal and isn't normal. I am saying, that there is no reason at all to have "features" in a game that do nothing more than make things take outrageous amounts of time. There can be challenge and fun, without it being plain  annoying.

For example... If your going to make me stand on a boat for 15 minutes, giving me something to do on the boat besides fish and stare at the same 4 backdrops.

If your going to make me run across a zone for 30 minutes, give me mobs I can kill on the way through it.

Don't make things take forever for the sake of them taking forever. Noone NEEDS to sit at a pc for 8 hrs in one sitting. While people will argue with me that this is "their" chosen playstyle. I can almost guarantee you that this is not the standard, but the minority. Most of us have 8 hr a day 40 hr a week jobs, and even families to attend to. I'm just saying that everything should have equal footing. Your ability to spend 8 hrs at one sitting, should not trump my 3 hrs. Just because you have more time to do "nothing" than I do, shouldn't give you advantages in a game.

Thats all we are asking for.  As long as the game focuses on all groups, and doesn't cater to one.... then its all gravy.

There is just no logical reason why anything in ANY game shoudl require more than 3-4 hr time blocks.

I mean come on. Go outside or something.

And, if you have to add things that take that long, at least make it so they can be split up into many sessions. I know of several events in FFXI that cannot be done with 4 hrs of playtime. And to me thats just ludicrous.

 

This may upset a few, but this post made me want to chime in.

 

First off, there is always more things that can be done in under 4 hour blocks than needs more than that.  To cater to ALL groups, as you say, as some enjoy weekend raiding, they should offer those bigger time constraints.  Its something for everyone.  Your being rather selfish in your viewpoint in almost every single statement being made here.

Also time does not stop for you.  If someone does play for 8 hours, then so be it.  Naturally, they will achieve more in the game than you will.  But for the 4 hours extra you didnt spent there, you might achieve more in the ways of family bonding, outside social circles, or business.  His 4 hours that he spends in the game is going to reward him because the 4 hours extra you didnt spend is going to reward YOU.  Why are you entited to the fabric of time and relation being struck on your whim?

Also.  Your "problem" isnt the developers problem.  You know in japan, and a select few other countries, group endevors are MUCH more favored than in countries such as USA?  I live in the unitied stated, so dont think i am saying our country sucks, but the truth is the truth.  The FF mmorpgs are developed primary for japan first and not USA.  Over there, grouping is much much easier to accomplish and fits the way the FF mmorpgs are developed because there is more integrity in how people play. 

The problem isnt the game.  The problem is your select of group mates being limited to someone who kills 4 mobs and then has to go.  I.E. He dont give a crap about the group, just himself.  That isnt SquareEnix's developer's problem, but yours, and your refusal to surround yourself with better quality of groupers for a long term guild or of sorts. 

The devs cant make you a better quality of the gene pool by which to pull group members from.  Your issue would be the same if you could instantly group through a interface and warp to your group members.  Then you would have people who only wanted to play 15 minutes before they went clubbing, and would jet after 10 mobs are killed.  The faster it is to get things going, the more oppurtunities people will take to obtain only what they want, in the shortest amount of time, and then be off without a care to whatever else they want. 

If you got a few people who play the same hours as you, you could log in and start playing right away.  If you cant, then NO ONE is going to be able to make you better in game friends/comrades/guildies.  You cut your losses, move on, and try and find people who play for as long/short as you and make it work.  You know, like real life, you WORK it out when its YOUR problem.

Unknown

I think people are confusing this thread as a rant against forced grouping.  That's not what the OP is saying.  In fact, he even stated that he likes grouping and prefers to group.  His complaint was about the long down times (finding a group, getting to a group, getting replacements) with nothing to do.

There's 2 ways SE can try to make this better in FFXIV:

1) Make it easier/faster to find groups and get to them.  One big contributor to the find-a-group problem in FFXI was that not every job was wanted in a party.  Sure you had to have a tank & healer, but when it came to everything else, jobs were often passed over because they weren't as good as another job.  So even though there was say a DRG LFP, people would still do searches for an RNG instead.  That needs to change.  Also, getting to the party, once you found one, shouldn't take as much time.  I learned how to use the outpost transporter to it's fullest, but not everyone did.  Perhaps they could improve that and allow you to transport much easier and to any/every area.  I'd like to see the LFP changed so that when you turn on your LFP status, you can switch jobs and be leveling a lower one while you're still listed as the other.  I hated that I had to stay as the job that I listed on LFP and was stuck only doing things that that job could do.  It would be cool to be able to solo on my BST while waiting for a party on my WAR, for instance.

2) Give people more things to do during those down times.  Crafting/fishing is all well and good for some people, but not everyone likes that.  There should be other activities that can be done while waiting for a group.  Perhaps expand ballista so that you can get in and out quickly to do some PvP until you get a group invite.  Maybe have an open/ongoing ballista battleground that's just a free for all.  Or have mini games in the major cities that you can do to pass the time.  Stuff like that.

ic0n67

At one point I think SE does realize there is a real life ... then they added Absolute Virtue ...

Anywho. Really what makes this game like this is the player base. The people who can't seem to log off are the ones that make it seem that you always needs to be on for hours and hours. When the game first came out all of the zones were near towns (other than the glaciers where the boss is). You could truely wait in Jeuno and with everyone leveling at the same time it wasn't hard to get to a party. I wasn't playing back then since it was still JP only at that point, but I can imagine that everything was quick and stream lined.

As they added expansions they added higher level zones, but they put them farther away without adding the towns around them. There is no safe haven for people to meet and barter. For instance the Boyhada Tree was a big place for peopel to party but it was just so far away from everyone that it took forever to get there so you were compelled to stay in parties longer if only to wait for your rep to finally get there. Also with the amount of people actaully leveling less and less over the years the wait for party just increases more and more (less parties, less roles to fill, more waiting). Thus when you get a party you might be more compelled to stay in longer because you just waited for 2 hours, traveled for a half an hour, waited for a whm to stop what they are doing to come get you because you don't have silent oils (btw ... REALLY FUCKING ANNOYING!!! ... if you can't afford meds don't play), then you look at your watch and you have 20 minutes to party before bed time ... so you stay on ... stretch shit out ... bob's your uncle you have a game that doesn't realize there is a real life.

Once Treasures came out and there was a viable exp zone right outside a city tethered to a main AH you saw people in shorter parties getting quick reps more and more.

There is SEs sins in all of this (A Jeuno AH and a spot where there are no mobs in The Sancuary and you have no problem).

The rest is the players sin. Forget about the exp party for a minute. Once you hit endgame, the bloodlust for shiney pixels adds so much to this. So you join some asshole's linkshell that wants you to farm for the high end gear constantly. Yes the drops rates suck but that isn't so you have to spend hours upon hours just to get one item. It is so it is a challenge. Honestly how great is it when someone gets a piece of gear that no one else has yet; that piece of gear is worth something it is worth the challege. How imagine it with everyone having it ... yawn ... compare that to AF that everyone can get with minimal effort on everyone's part. It is easy and there is no challege to it.

So ... i digress a little, drop rates isn't the point of this section, just proving they are a nessessity for high end gear. So you have this asshole's linkshell where the leader or officers maybe want the gear. So they use the members as pawns to get what they want (because they want to keep the leader happy so they can get gear too). Farming for pop items is all good and fine. When you are asked to do it 7 times a week for 4-5 hours it adds a wtf aspect to it. The idea is genuine, more pop items = more pops = more items for people. Since you are in a group of 18+ trying to all get items at the same time the thought process seems correct ... if you have no life.

There are people out there that do nothing but play this game ... trust me I have been around them so much it sickens me. They are the ones with the most expereince (because they play all the time) with best gear (because they play all the time) the most repect (because they have the most experence and the best gear because they play all the time). Problem is the people who are in that monochrome dunes armor look up to these people and want to be exactly like them. The monochromes are the ones that look at what you need to do to get the best shit and wonder why SE can't realize people have real lives. Some are willing to actually put forth the effort to get the best gear then curse SE for making it so hard, others are willing to just bitch about it then turn to another game later and when they realize they can't get what they want with the effort they are putting it.

This game is very much about the amount of effort you put into the game is/should be equal to the amount of game you get back. If you want the world, you need to put the world into it. There is nothing wrong with this. This is someone who is in the top 1000 of all players according to FFXIAH.com (I know it isn't  100% accurate). I have gotten where I am because I played for 5 years and trust me I should be so much higher -- I am in the "should be" section of the first line. I was a part of those group that made this game be so shitty for a social life until I reallized that I don't care about the best of the best gear. I have enough money and enough fame/prestige in this game that I can ride into the sunset having accomplished what I originally set out to do ... have fun. I haven't logged on other than a day or two in the past 2 months (and I won't until at least monday) because I have real life to deal with.

It is possible to play this game in a very casual way and be something. SE has learned that and is making it better as things go along and with FFXIV I can only see it getting better and better. The player base is catching up because all those assholes that pushed people to the brink have gotten those high end items and are now bored and have slowly gone away to other things. It is the monochromes that have survived that are ready to run this game and ready to run FFXIV when it comes out. You are always going to have the people who want everything, but there are a lot of people who want to play like me too. It is just a matter of playing how you want to play.

 

 

 

 

raystantz

Originally posted by Creasian

Originally posted by raystantz

Originally posted by Arkyst


Not to come off as rude or seem like a devils advocate but this appears to be a growing theme within this community. I can fully understand your notion of time constraints vs. down time inside a particular game. Along the same line though I can just as easily stand on the other side of the fence.
Many threads are created, amongst each game forum, with this very topic. I agree that individuals that adhere to a smaller playtime need to be acknowledged with such options that many of you have brought to attention. Even still when we stand on the other side there is a hefty group of individuals that care to play on a much grander scale time wise and doing such would be a hindrance to their play style.
A single game has not reached a peak where they may accommodate to both short and long play styles successfully. Somewhere along the development the design team pads one over the other and rubs someone the wrong way.
Long story short I suppose my point would be for folks who would enjoy none/very few time sinks there is an equal amount that favors them in one form or another.
As the gaming community I believe it is not up to us to demand one style over another. More so it is our duty to step back and look at each game respectively and decide if we are willing to devote the amount of time that was asked of us instead. In the end there will be several selections for each group I think we should stop demanding each one adheres to the one mass style…whichever that may be.

 

Your missing my point.

While we can argue all day about what is normal and isn't normal. I am saying, that there is no reason at all to have "features" in a game that do nothing more than make things take outrageous amounts of time. There can be challenge and fun, without it being plain  annoying.

For example... If your going to make me stand on a boat for 15 minutes, giving me something to do on the boat besides fish and stare at the same 4 backdrops.

If your going to make me run across a zone for 30 minutes, give me mobs I can kill on the way through it.

Don't make things take forever for the sake of them taking forever. Noone NEEDS to sit at a pc for 8 hrs in one sitting. While people will argue with me that this is "their" chosen playstyle. I can almost guarantee you that this is not the standard, but the minority. Most of us have 8 hr a day 40 hr a week jobs, and even families to attend to. I'm just saying that everything should have equal footing. Your ability to spend 8 hrs at one sitting, should not trump my 3 hrs. Just because you have more time to do "nothing" than I do, shouldn't give you advantages in a game.

Thats all we are asking for.  As long as the game focuses on all groups, and doesn't cater to one.... then its all gravy.

There is just no logical reason why anything in ANY game shoudl require more than 3-4 hr time blocks.

I mean come on. Go outside or something.

And, if you have to add things that take that long, at least make it so they can be split up into many sessions. I know of several events in FFXI that cannot be done with 4 hrs of playtime. And to me thats just ludicrous.

 

This may upset a few, but this post made me want to chime in.

 

First off, there is always more things that can be done in under 4 hour blocks than needs more than that.  To cater to ALL groups, as you say, as some enjoy weekend raiding, they should offer those bigger time constraints.  Its something for everyone.  Your being rather selfish in your viewpoint in almost every single statement being made here.

Also time does not stop for you.  If someone does play for 8 hours, then so be it.  Naturally, they will achieve more in the game than you will.  But for the 4 hours extra you didnt spent there, you might achieve more in the ways of family bonding, outside social circles, or business.  His 4 hours that he spends in the game is going to reward him because the 4 hours extra you didnt spend is going to reward YOU.  Why are you entited to the fabric of time and relation being struck on your whim?

Also.  Your "problem" isnt the developers problem.  You know in japan, and a select few other countries, group endevors are MUCH more favored than in countries such as USA?  I live in the unitied stated, so dont think i am saying our country sucks, but the truth is the truth.  The FF mmorpgs are developed primary for japan first and not USA.  Over there, grouping is much much easier to accomplish and fits the way the FF mmorpgs are developed because there is more integrity in how people play. 

The problem isnt the game.  The problem is your select of group mates being limited to someone who kills 4 mobs and then has to go.  I.E. He dont give a crap about the group, just himself.  That isnt SquareEnix's developer's problem, but yours, and your refusal to surround yourself with better quality of groupers for a long term guild or of sorts. 

The devs cant make you a better quality of the gene pool by which to pull group members from.  Your issue would be the same if you could instantly group through a interface and warp to your group members.  Then you would have people who only wanted to play 15 minutes before they went clubbing, and would jet after 10 mobs are killed.  The faster it is to get things going, the more oppurtunities people will take to obtain only what they want, in the shortest amount of time, and then be off without a care to whatever else they want. 

If you got a few people who play the same hours as you, you could log in and start playing right away.  If you cant, then NO ONE is going to be able to make you better in game friends/comrades/guildies.  You cut your losses, move on, and try and find people who play for as long/short as you and make it work.  You know, like real life, you WORK it out when its YOUR problem.

Once again, missing my point.

If you want to play for 8 hrs in one sitting.. noone is stopping you from doing that. However, there shouldn't be anything in a game that takes that long at one time. There should be NOTHING in the game that requires that much time in one sitting. Its fine if you and your group want to sit at a pc all day long and play.. but there should not be anything in the game that actually needs that much time to complete.. So, while I might play for 3-4 hrs and only get 1 event done. You can stay on and play for 8 hrs and get 2-3 events done, since your on longer. It doesn't make you superior to me, just means you stayed on playing longer. I will eventually get the same stuff completed, just split up in segments.

See how it works now? Both groups are happy, without it catering to one or the other.

By purposely making travel times tedious, with no obvious reasons for them being that way.. it automatically tacks on the time it takes to complete things without actually adding any challenge. I'd much rather a harder boss.. than for it to take me 45 minutes to traverse to the actual area to start the event.

There are easy ways to make this happen.. someone just has to stop being an idiot and do it.

Inaya

Originally posted by Arkyst


Your right and yes I did misunderstand your original point, but some of my statements are still valid and several seem to be within the page of your newest post.
I did make the assumption that you were asking for no time sinks what-so-ever in every sense of the word. Still I believe your stance of “features” lies within the same bed. The developer may add features that can actively fill your time even while doing the mundane but it remains on the same page as taking forever for that very sake. Filling an area with monsters to kill while running a 30-minute terrain or something more than fishing because the boat is a 15-minute ride is still that, filler. However fun or entertaining it may be it still qualifies as filler.
Now I do agree no one needs to sit at a computer for 8hrs or more, especially every day of the week. I myself would lose my sanity if that were asked of me for my career let alone free time. Unfortunately this is the practice for some and very possibly more than you or I may realize. Which was truly my only point to the earlier reply. I only brought this up for the reason stated earlier to this hot topic creeping up. Many of every forum raise this query but seem to push anyone of the polar opposite style to the background. For each that enjoys their short trysts within each world there are those that delve much deeper both time and experience. In lies the heart of the problem. With your 3hrs of dedicated time you wish to receive your glory as much as the gentleman that has devoted his entire weekend inside the realm.
By your standards this is quite impossible. For you to not feel hindered by your play time the folks that enjoy a much larger session will need to be handicapped to remain at the same standard as yourself. You stated that it is imperative that your 3hrs not be “trumped” by the next player’s 8hrs. On that same page the other gentlemen will wish his 8-9hrs to amount to 3 times that of yours. So your statement that he should not achieve more is absurd.
Which brings me right back to the point. To cater to both styles as you suggest the developer will need to fill each play session with a challenge. If they were to cap all actives to completion within 3hr blocks this might feel like a let down to Mr. 9hr. As I said no game will be successful to both styles. If it’s to short or easy one group suffers disappointment if it’s long or difficult some are left out.
I understand we all enjoy hobbies in our own manner, but when we demand that they cater to our group we only turn a blind eye to others needs. Let the developer create their game, if it earns your devotion then take upon yourself to decide the appropriate time worth. If you truly enjoy it then you will get everything you want from it just the same as the next regardless of play time.

 

 I agree.

 

raystantz

Originally posted by Inaya

Originally posted by Arkyst


Your right and yes I did misunderstand your original point, but some of my statements are still valid and several seem to be within the page of your newest post.
I did make the assumption that you were asking for no time sinks what-so-ever in every sense of the word. Still I believe your stance of “features” lies within the same bed. The developer may add features that can actively fill your time even while doing the mundane but it remains on the same page as taking forever for that very sake. Filling an area with monsters to kill while running a 30-minute terrain or something more than fishing because the boat is a 15-minute ride is still that, filler. However fun or entertaining it may be it still qualifies as filler.
Now I do agree no one needs to sit at a computer for 8hrs or more, especially every day of the week. I myself would lose my sanity if that were asked of me for my career let alone free time. Unfortunately this is the practice for some and very possibly more than you or I may realize. Which was truly my only point to the earlier reply. I only brought this up for the reason stated earlier to this hot topic creeping up. Many of every forum raise this query but seem to push anyone of the polar opposite style to the background. For each that enjoys their short trysts within each world there are those that delve much deeper both time and experience. In lies the heart of the problem. With your 3hrs of dedicated time you wish to receive your glory as much as the gentleman that has devoted his entire weekend inside the realm.
By your standards this is quite impossible. For you to not feel hindered by your play time the folks that enjoy a much larger session will need to be handicapped to remain at the same standard as yourself. You stated that it is imperative that your 3hrs not be “trumped” by the next player’s 8hrs. On that same page the other gentlemen will wish his 8-9hrs to amount to 3 times that of yours. So your statement that he should not achieve more is absurd.
Which brings me right back to the point. To cater to both styles as you suggest the developer will need to fill each play session with a challenge. If they were to cap all actives to completion within 3hr blocks this might feel like a let down to Mr. 9hr. As I said no game will be successful to both styles. If it’s to short or easy one group suffers disappointment if it’s long or difficult some are left out.
I understand we all enjoy hobbies in our own manner, but when we demand that they cater to our group we only turn a blind eye to others needs. Let the developer create their game, if it earns your devotion then take upon yourself to decide the appropriate time worth. If you truly enjoy it then you will get everything you want from it just the same as the next regardless of play time.

 

 I agree.

 

If a game has content that can be split into segments. Mr. 8 hr, can complete the entire event in one sitting.. making him happy. All the while, Mr. 3 hr might not get it done in one sitting, he will still accomplish the same thing via a longer stretch of time in increments. Both parties are happy, both have accomplished the same thing. What I do NOT agree with, is implementing content that only 1 type of playstyle can complete. Mr. 8 hr can complete everything in the game, while mr. 3 hr is stuck wondering why he cannot. Mr. 8 hr is just going to run out of things to do, before Mr. 3 hr.. and there isn't much that can be done about that. There will always be people who want to do everything in one sitting as fast as they possibly can. And, by all means they should be able to if they want. Just as I should be able to split up that same content and do it at my own leisure.

 

Inaya

Originally posted by raystantz

Originally posted by Inaya

Originally posted by Arkyst


Your right and yes I did misunderstand your original point, but some of my statements are still valid and several seem to be within the page of your newest post.
I did make the assumption that you were asking for no time sinks what-so-ever in every sense of the word. Still I believe your stance of “features” lies within the same bed. The developer may add features that can actively fill your time even while doing the mundane but it remains on the same page as taking forever for that very sake. Filling an area with monsters to kill while running a 30-minute terrain or something more than fishing because the boat is a 15-minute ride is still that, filler. However fun or entertaining it may be it still qualifies as filler.
Now I do agree no one needs to sit at a computer for 8hrs or more, especially every day of the week. I myself would lose my sanity if that were asked of me for my career let alone free time. Unfortunately this is the practice for some and very possibly more than you or I may realize. Which was truly my only point to the earlier reply. I only brought this up for the reason stated earlier to this hot topic creeping up. Many of every forum raise this query but seem to push anyone of the polar opposite style to the background. For each that enjoys their short trysts within each world there are those that delve much deeper both time and experience. In lies the heart of the problem. With your 3hrs of dedicated time you wish to receive your glory as much as the gentleman that has devoted his entire weekend inside the realm.
By your standards this is quite impossible. For you to not feel hindered by your play time the folks that enjoy a much larger session will need to be handicapped to remain at the same standard as yourself. You stated that it is imperative that your 3hrs not be “trumped” by the next player’s 8hrs. On that same page the other gentlemen will wish his 8-9hrs to amount to 3 times that of yours. So your statement that he should not achieve more is absurd.
Which brings me right back to the point. To cater to both styles as you suggest the developer will need to fill each play session with a challenge. If they were to cap all actives to completion within 3hr blocks this might feel like a let down to Mr. 9hr. As I said no game will be successful to both styles. If it’s to short or easy one group suffers disappointment if it’s long or difficult some are left out.
I understand we all enjoy hobbies in our own manner, but when we demand that they cater to our group we only turn a blind eye to others needs. Let the developer create their game, if it earns your devotion then take upon yourself to decide the appropriate time worth. If you truly enjoy it then you will get everything you want from it just the same as the next regardless of play time.

 

 I agree.

 

If a game has content that can be split into segments. Mr. 8 hr, can complete the entire event in one sitting.. making him happy. All the while, Mr. 3 hr might not get it done in one sitting, he will still accomplish the same thing via a longer stretch of time in increments. Both parties are happy, both have accomplished the same thing. What I do NOT agree with, is implementing content that only 1 type of playstyle can complete. Mr. 8 hr can complete everything in the game, while mr. 3 hr is stuck wondering why he cannot. Mr. 8 hr is just going to run out of things to do, before Mr. 3 hr.. and there isn't much that can be done about that. There will always be people who want to do everything in one sitting as fast as they possibly can. And, by all means they should be able to if they want. Just as I should be able to split up that same content and do it at my own leisure.

 

As long as Mr. 3 hours understands and accepts the fact that it will take him 3 sittings compared to Mr. 8 hours 1.  As long as Mr. 3 hour realizes and accepts that Mr. 8 hour will always be farther and more advanced. 

If your play style does not match the game you have chosen to play there is going to be content you don't get to see or experience, gear you don't get to wear, mobs you don't get to kill.  Mr. 8 hour and Mr. 3 hour are not putting equal amounts into the game and therefore cannot expect the same experience.

Play it, don't play it.  Just don't lobby to change it into something that's your style at the expense of those who are enjoying it the way it is.

raystantz

Originally posted by Inaya

Originally posted by raystantz

Originally posted by Inaya

Originally posted by Arkyst


Your right and yes I did misunderstand your original point, but some of my statements are still valid and several seem to be within the page of your newest post.
I did make the assumption that you were asking for no time sinks what-so-ever in every sense of the word. Still I believe your stance of “features” lies within the same bed. The developer may add features that can actively fill your time even while doing the mundane but it remains on the same page as taking forever for that very sake. Filling an area with monsters to kill while running a 30-minute terrain or something more than fishing because the boat is a 15-minute ride is still that, filler. However fun or entertaining it may be it still qualifies as filler.
Now I do agree no one needs to sit at a computer for 8hrs or more, especially every day of the week. I myself would lose my sanity if that were asked of me for my career let alone free time. Unfortunately this is the practice for some and very possibly more than you or I may realize. Which was truly my only point to the earlier reply. I only brought this up for the reason stated earlier to this hot topic creeping up. Many of every forum raise this query but seem to push anyone of the polar opposite style to the background. For each that enjoys their short trysts within each world there are those that delve much deeper both time and experience. In lies the heart of the problem. With your 3hrs of dedicated time you wish to receive your glory as much as the gentleman that has devoted his entire weekend inside the realm.
By your standards this is quite impossible. For you to not feel hindered by your play time the folks that enjoy a much larger session will need to be handicapped to remain at the same standard as yourself. You stated that it is imperative that your 3hrs not be “trumped” by the next player’s 8hrs. On that same page the other gentlemen will wish his 8-9hrs to amount to 3 times that of yours. So your statement that he should not achieve more is absurd.
Which brings me right back to the point. To cater to both styles as you suggest the developer will need to fill each play session with a challenge. If they were to cap all actives to completion within 3hr blocks this might feel like a let down to Mr. 9hr. As I said no game will be successful to both styles. If it’s to short or easy one group suffers disappointment if it’s long or difficult some are left out.
I understand we all enjoy hobbies in our own manner, but when we demand that they cater to our group we only turn a blind eye to others needs. Let the developer create their game, if it earns your devotion then take upon yourself to decide the appropriate time worth. If you truly enjoy it then you will get everything you want from it just the same as the next regardless of play time.

 

 I agree.

 

If a game has content that can be split into segments. Mr. 8 hr, can complete the entire event in one sitting.. making him happy. All the while, Mr. 3 hr might not get it done in one sitting, he will still accomplish the same thing via a longer stretch of time in increments. Both parties are happy, both have accomplished the same thing. What I do NOT agree with, is implementing content that only 1 type of playstyle can complete. Mr. 8 hr can complete everything in the game, while mr. 3 hr is stuck wondering why he cannot. Mr. 8 hr is just going to run out of things to do, before Mr. 3 hr.. and there isn't much that can be done about that. There will always be people who want to do everything in one sitting as fast as they possibly can. And, by all means they should be able to if they want. Just as I should be able to split up that same content and do it at my own leisure.

 

As long as Mr. 3 hours understands and accepts the fact that it will take him 3 sittings compared to Mr. 8 hours 1.  As long as Mr. 3 hour realizes and accepts that Mr. 8 hour will always be farther and more advanced. 

If your play style does not match the game you have chosen to play there is going to be content you don't get to see or experience, gear you don't get to wear, mobs you don't get to kill.  Mr. 8 hour and Mr. 3 hour are not putting equal amounts into the game and therefore cannot expect the same experience.

Play it, don't play it.  Just don't lobby to change it into something that's your style at the expense of those who are enjoying it the way it is.

and thus, this is why I don't start these types of threads normally. It doesn't do anyone any good, and noone will ever just go "Hey, I totally understand where your coming from".  I just don't get where people thing "time" is a valid form of advancement. Maybe if you were playing guitar, or drawing. Then it would be valid. But your not doing anything. Its the equivalent of watching tv all day long. By watching movies all day long, does that mean your a "better" movie watcher? No.. it just means you watch too many movies. Spending more time than someone else on a game does not make you better or more special. You are the same as everyone else who plays. You just for some reason, have loads of time to waste.

What your not understanding is, I'm not trying to change it to "my style". I'm trying to make it fair for everyone, and not just one group. Your telling me I should just "be ok" with never getting to do content that these other tards can do, just because they have no lives outside of a video game. Thats just as unfair of a statement as your saying I am trying to make. Which, I am not. I want them to be able to spend all the time they want to in the game, and achieve all the same things they've always achieved. The same content should still be available to those people who can't in longer broken up segments. There should NOT be anything in the game that takes that long, regardless of playstyle. I mean, the damn "warning" at the beginning of the game when you login tells you that its not healthy. Why would they then go against that by adding the very stuff to the game that causes people to have this unhealthy playstyle.

Look at WoW's raiding. It doesn't cater to one group or the other. You can play for 8 hrs or 3 hrs.. you can raid 7 days a week or you can raid 3 times a week. In the end, both groups get the same rewards.. the ones with more time will obviously get it first. Which, is completey fine with me. Getting an item first doesn't make them superior players to me, just means they had more time than me. I'm fine with that. I'm just tired of people equating "challenge" with time spent. Its not the same thing. All it does is gives you bragging rights to say you did it first.. and I'm fine with that. I'm gonna do it eventually, and will be on the same footing as you.

Currently in FFXI, there are things that cannot be done without those long periods of time in one sitting. And, those are the things I am talking about that need fixing.  If you want to reward people for having no outside social life, I'm even fine with that. Just not the way it works currently, they are rewarded currently by being the only ones able to even complete the content. Give them a special title or some other non game breaking reward. Don't tell me and the others like me, that I can't do something because I don't have 8 hs to spend. Its ridiculous. I can guarantee you that these players are in a SMALL minority, a very small one. I'm not saying they don't count. I'm just saying, there are better ways to deal with both types of play instead of telling one to "deal with it".

Inaya

I do understand where you are coming from.  I work 50+ hours a week, I hav family obligations.  I'm one of the players who won't be able to play the way I used to play FFXI.  My point is that all this is MY problem, MY issues, MY real life.  If I choose to play a game that has greater rewards for those with more time, then its MY choice and in my opinion it is not MY place to ask that the game be changed to accomodate ME thereby infringing on the choices of others to play a game they CAN devote the time they want to.  MY level of enjoyment is MY responsibility and  If I'm that upset at being "left out" then I need to accept the fact that my life has changed and either deal with it or find a game that offers more for my situation. 

Proximo521

Originally posted by Inaya


I do understand where you are coming from.  I work 50+ hours a week, I hav family obligations.  I'm one of the players who won't be able to play the way I used to play FFXI.  My point is that all this is MY problem, MY issues, MY real life.  If I choose to play a game that has greater rewards for those with more time, then its MY choice and in my opinion it is not MY place to ask that the game be changed to accomodate ME thereby infringing on the choices of others to play a game they CAN devote the time they want to.  MY level of enjoyment is MY responsibility and  If I'm that upset at being "left out" then I need to accept the fact that my life has changed and either deal with it or find a game that offers more for my situation. 

 

Go Inaya!  Couldnt have said it better myself.

Vrazule

Considering the MMO genre already caters extensively to the no-lifers, including FFXI.  How would it be in SE's best interest to create another game that directly competes with their first product?  Logic would dictate that FFXIV would be substantially different from it's predecessor in order to widen their market share and increase over all income.

FFXI is a very hardcore, time intensive, group exclusive, raid oriented game.  Should they not then make FFXIV its polar opposite to maximize their portfolio and garner a much wider audience?

From a business perspective, it's the epitome of stupidity to cannibalize your own product line.

Rogue_Leader

Originally posted by Inaya


I do understand where you are coming from.  I work 50+ hours a week, I hav family obligations.  I'm one of the players who won't be able to play the way I used to play FFXI.  My point is that all this is MY problem, MY issues, MY real life.  If I choose to play a game that has greater rewards for those with more time, then its MY choice and in my opinion it is not MY place to ask that the game be changed to accomodate ME thereby infringing on the choices of others to play a game they CAN devote the time they want to.  MY level of enjoyment is MY responsibility and  If I'm that upset at being "left out" then I need to accept the fact that my life has changed and either deal with it or find a game that offers more for my situation. 

 

I think what people are asking for is a game that offers more for your situation while still rewarding those who can invest more time.

Actually FF stand-alone RPG's have a nice mechanism for this: Saving games.  

Someone who spends 40-80hrs in a week on a FF game will likely beat it in a week or two.

Someone who spends 40-80hrs in a month on a FF game will likely beat it in a month or two.

Both played the same game, and achieved the same result.  One player took much longer to do it.  What people are asking for is the option to do this.  Content accessible to everyone, taking roughly the same amount of time, such that "your" 40hrs of playtime are the same as "my" 40hrs of playtime.  Even if one of us spends 40hrs in three days and another 40hrs in three months.

Will the player who spends more time be more advanced?  Of course.

Does the current system do this?  No.  Here's why:

If I spend 1-2 hrs of my three hours getting a group together I have 1-2 hrs left to actually participate in some activity.  If this is true five days a week I'm spending roughly 50-60% of my play time waiting.

If I spend 1-2hrs of my eight hours getting a group together I have 6-7 hrs left to actually participate in some activity.  If this is true five days a week I'm spending roughly 15-20% of my play time waiting.  As such the player who spends more time in one sitting is getting more out of their play time than the player spending less time.

If SE decides to make that game (again) that's their decision.  I won't play it, because, where I'm at in life I won't be able to really enjoy it.

I also think it would be a stupid business decision; but that's another discussion.

raystantz

Originally posted by Rogue_Leader

Originally posted by Inaya


I do understand where you are coming from.  I work 50+ hours a week, I hav family obligations.  I'm one of the players who won't be able to play the way I used to play FFXI.  My point is that all this is MY problem, MY issues, MY real life.  If I choose to play a game that has greater rewards for those with more time, then its MY choice and in my opinion it is not MY place to ask that the game be changed to accomodate ME thereby infringing on the choices of others to play a game they CAN devote the time they want to.  MY level of enjoyment is MY responsibility and  If I'm that upset at being "left out" then I need to accept the fact that my life has changed and either deal with it or find a game that offers more for my situation. 

 

I think what people are asking for is a game that offers more for your situation while still rewarding those who can invest more time.

Actually FF stand-alone RPG's have a nice mechanism for this: Saving games.  

Someone who spends 40-80hrs in a week on a FF game will likely beat it in a week or two.

Someone who spends 40-80hrs in a month on a FF game will likely beat it in a month or two.

Both played the same game, and achieved the same result.  One player took much longer to do it.  What people are asking for is the option to do this.  Content accessible to everyone, taking roughly the same amount of time, such that "your" 40hrs of playtime are the same as "my" 40hrs of playtime.  Even if one of us spends 40hrs in three days and another 40hrs in three months.

Will the player who spends more time be more advanced?  Of course.

Does the current system do this?  No.  Here's why:

If I spend 1-2 hrs of my three hours getting a group together I have 1-2 hrs left to actually participate in some activity.  If this is true five days a week I'm spending roughly 50-60% of my play time waiting.

If I spend 1-2hrs of my eight hours getting a group together I have 6-7 hrs left to actually participate in some activity.  If this is true five days a week I'm spending roughly 15-20% of my play time waiting.  As such the player who spends more time in one sitting is getting more out of their play time than the player spending less time.

If SE decides to make that game (again) that's their decision.  I won't play it, because, where I'm at in life I won't be able to really enjoy it.

I also think it would be a stupid business decision; but that's another discussion.

I'm glad somebody gets the reason for this thread.

The other poster who keeps refuting me by saying "Get over it" and "Deal with it" and "Find a game that first your playstyle" is still not comprehending what I am saying. Its not that simple.

There is no way any game company can create an experience that will cater to every single little style of play. You've got some people who can only play 10 minutes a day, some people who only pvp, some people who only pve, some people who play 8 hrs a day, some people who play 3 hrs a day. But, what you can do.. is try to make as many people happy as is possible. Which is what SE failed to do with FFXI. They catered to a certain type of play, and didn't realize their screw up until way later (FOV was implemented). While this helped, it did not fix the problem. The High end content that takes 6-8 hrs to complete was still out of reach for those players who don't spend their lives in game. Why should they suffer?

What is being asked is that ALL content be viable for ALL playstyles. And while folks are trying to tell me it isn't possible for it to be this way, Blizzard has proved that theory wrong 10 fold.  If a company wants to maximize the number of subscribers to its product, it needs to try its best to make sure its accessible by as many people as possible. There is a reason why WoW is the #1 MMORPG on the planet. I don't care for WoW anymore, not because its  bad game.. but because they've started to cater for one type of play. Thats my problem.

If you make a game that only caters to Mr. 8 hr (insert FFXI here) your leaving out all the Mr. 3 hrs that would have played your game. If you make a game that caters to only Mr. 3 hr.. (insert WoW in its current state here) then you leave out all the hardcore players who would have played your game.

The key is to balance the 2 so that all content can be completed by both groups, in different time spans. Its not changing the game, its offering options.

Here's an example:

GAME EVENT A: completion time = 5 hrs (this doesn't include time spent gathering people or preparing.. this is just the event itself from start to finish)

In FFXI, unless you are Mr. 8 hr... your not going to ever be able to do this content.  So, because there is no way to balance what types of people will be playing.. the best solution is to either eliminate this type of content all together or create different ways to get it done.

so.. lets look at it again..

GAME EVENT A: completion time = 5 hrs

Group A: logins and has 8 hrs to play, they spend the first 2-3 hrs preparing and grouping, and the next 5 hrs on the event itself.. they finish the event and all is well

Group B: Logins on Monday and has 3 hrs to play... said event takes 5 hrs.. + whatever time is spent preparing. So, Group B groups up and "starts" on Event A. They only make it about an hr into it. Luckily for them, they have an item in their bags that will allow them to save their progress in the event.. so that when they return on Tuesday, they can pick up where they left off. By Wednesday they have completed the event that only took Group A a day to do. Group A gets the satisfaction of saying they did it first. Both players have the same skill level and advancement level. One just completed it before the other.

I really don't see where the argument exists. Don't just tell me to play a game that "fits" my playstyle.. because I can easily tell you the same thing if thats how you want to play your cards. It shouldn't be that way.

Unknown

Originally posted by Vrazule


Considering the MMO genre already caters extensively to the no-lifers, including FFXI.  How would it be in SE's best interest to create another game that directly competes with their first product?  Logic would dictate that FFXIV would be substantially different from it's predecessor in order to widen their market share and increase over all income.
FFXI is a very hardcore, time intensive, group exclusive, raid oriented game.  Should they not then make FFXIV its polar opposite to maximize their portfolio and garner a much wider audience?
From a business perspective, it's the epitome of stupidity to cannibalize your own product line.

 

I can see the logic there.  In fact, I think it was the makers of UO who canned the development of UO2 for this very reason... competing with themselves, and they decided to invest the money in making UO better instead.

However, you also have to consider that SE is SE.  They have a certain philosophy they won't deviate from when making games because that's what they believe makes a good one.  So I do expect some differences (more casual friendly, more solo content) but I don't expect a "polar opposite" as you put it.  Also, I think they are banking on the fact that people who liked FFXI will play FFXIV and if it's not anything like FFXI, then many will probably leave.  I just can't see them trying to target a completely different audience from FFXI.

Unknown

 

---

Originally posted by raystantz

What is being asked is that ALL content be viable for ALL playstyles. And while folks are trying to tell me it isn't possible for it to be this way, Blizzard has proved that theory wrong 10 fold.  If a company wants to maximize the number of subscribers to its product, it needs to try its best to make sure its accessible by as many people as possible. There is a reason why WoW is the #1 MMORPG on the planet.

---

 

I was with you until you went down this road. While that reasoning sounds logical, it's not. Mythic tried that with Warhammer and it failed because people didn't want another WoW style game, they wanted an improved DAoC style game. As I've said before, by your logic, all restaurants should strive to be McDonald's, because they are the #1 selling restaurant in the world. See the problem with that?

raystantz

Originally posted by Sixpax


 

Originally posted by raystantz

What is being asked is that ALL content be viable for ALL playstyles. And while folks are trying to tell me it isn't possible for it to be this way, Blizzard has proved that theory wrong 10 fold.  If a company wants to maximize the number of subscribers to its product, it needs to try its best to make sure its accessible by as many people as possible. There is a reason why WoW is the #1 MMORPG on the planet.

 

I was with you until you went down this road. While that reasoning sounds logical, it's not. Mythic tried that with Warhammer and it failed because people didn't want another WoW style game, they wanted an improved DAoC style game. As I've said before, by your logic, all restaurants should strive to be McDonald's, because they are the #1 selling restaurant in the world. See the problem with that?

 

No I don't see the problem with it. If a company wants to have the same level of success as the #1 company, they are unfortunately going to have to act like said company.. as good or as bad as many might think that choice is. If your not going to do that, then you have to be so different that you set yourself apart in a good way.

I'm not saying that SE should copy WoW. I'm saying that noone can refute the success of Blizzard by using the model they did. I don't care that Warhammer failed doing it, because they aren't Blizzard. WAR is not anything like WoW other than in looks. Its a niche game. It would have only ever appealed to "that type" of gamer, and it even failed in that aspect. What I am saying is that in the type of game that WoW offers.. Blizzard has maximized the effect in the best way it could. By making it accessible to all in every way. Warhammer is a pvp game, and unless you enjoy pvp.. you won't enjoy WAR, and like you said.. if you were looking for DAOC 2.. your not going to find it. The reason why WoW has more subs that anyone else.. is because its accessible to all. The problem is, now Blizzard has changed directions and is making it "so" accessible.. that all the challenge that was there at release is gone, and it went from being accessible by everyone.. to be only accessible by those seeking a very easy game. Since, there is no content for anything but that type of player. It wasn't always that way.

 

If you create a game based on PVP.. you can forget about having PVE players sub to it, and vice versa. Thats why if you have a happy medium, you can hope to gain players from both sides.. rather than just one, maximizing the number of subs overall.