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Jumpgate Evolution: General PvP Interview
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
Recently, MMORPG.com had the opportunity to talk to Hermann Peterscheck of NetDevil about PvP in Jumpgate Evolution and how it will be implemented.
MMORPG.com:
What kinds of PvP will make an appearance in Jumpgate Evolution? One on one, 100 vs 100, etc.?
Hermann Peterscheck:
We have determined that large numbers of ships is certainly more fun than one on one battles in big, open space – though that is possible. Once you support huge scale battles, smaller battles are simply an issue of player preference. I suspect we will have many different sizes to the battles, but we are assuming that massive space combat will be the most compelling.
Here again, each nation's personality is represented. In the large scale battlespace, for example, each group has their own distinct capital ship which they need to protect, while attempting to destroy the other group's ship. The look and feel of these ships is very distinctive and helps players identify with their nation.
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Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
....Sounds like Warhammer in space
Uhh... what?
I read the entire interview and dammit i dont want to agree with your statement but......... it sort of sounds that way. Im sure it isnt and even it it was, it would still be infinitely cooler because you're in space. I love the idea of being able to defend your capitol ship. The capitol ship would need to have some major shielding or extremely effective, auto-targetting cannon/lasers; Or else everyone will just zerg it and the battle will be over in seconds. Killing the fighters protecting it should be a higher priority and respawns should proc a death penalty/debuff on players. If you want to fly and atack recklessly, your penalty will be deal less damage and less health. This way players will not only think twice about zerg fests but also care about their own well being. Flying together in group formations to maximize damage and gain a sense of safety in numbers. Okay this is too long and im done now ^^
What systems are in place to prevent "ganking" behaviours?
Hermann Peterscheck: It depends what you mean by ganking. It will be possible to play Jumpgate without getting yourself into a situation where you can be ganked. Once you enter an open PVP area you are sort of electing to put yourself in danger of being killed without expecting it. I think the important thing is that players are able to make choices. Ganking is only really terrible if there's nothing you could have done about it and so that's the real issue to address.
Translation:
We have no solution for ganking. It ruined the original Jumpgate, and it'll probably ruin this game as well. It will be possible to hide in the safe areas of the game forever, but we don't put anything of value there so you can't do anything there. We've put all the carrots into open PvP space in the vain hope people who don't like PvP will go there and become fodder for the gankers a few times before they cancel their accounts. Ganking is only really terrible if its all people do in a game, which, it will be here as well, see Eve for a great example.
Melodramatic, but I laughed.
And War is space sounds about right.
I so want to like this game, but this Hermann fellow seems to not have a clue. He needs to grow a pair, say what's in the f'ning game and release it. He's too afraid of failure.
Translation:
We have no solution for ganking <snip>
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Hehe, that's kinda what I got out of it as well. I sure hope they don't place everything worthwhile in PVP areas. I'm not a huge PvP fan, not so much the PvP itself but the 12yo smack talkers get old, fast. If the only way to be PvE competitive is to farm in PvP areas, then I won't be staying long.
I sure hope that won't be the case. I've been waiting for a good Elite/Privateer/Freelancer type game for ages now.
I know nothing will ever replace my first few hours playing Elite on my C64 but I hope this will come close, like Privateer came close.
First of all - you have no idea what 'carrots' will be where.
Second of all - why are all of you people so utterly averse to PvP?
Don't condemn a game until it's actually released and playtested by the public.
Confirming that open PVP areas ruin MMO's. Just look at EVE Online... owait...
Seriously... blanket statements about how PVP is a bad thing (tm) are assinine. It totally depends on how the risk vs. reward is balanced out. 0.0 in EVE is as lawless as it gets. However, there are PLENTY of people out there. Why? Because the risk vs. rewards make it worthwhile to be out there.
Likewise there are people in lowsec, which is near lawless as well.
TBH I will say that the PVP system in the original JG was broken. Mainly because PVP combat in the original jumpgate basically wound up just being a bunch of jousting because the engine didn't lend itself to dogfighting well. Hopefully the new version will because, frankly, jousting matches are about as much fun as watching paint peel.
How PVP will be in the new version is anyone's guess. The 'interviews' they give so far have had both poorly asked questions and evasive answers.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
First of all because WAY too many Dev's think its "creative" and "clever" and oh so "subtle" to use that approach. By placing all(or most) of the carrots in GankSpace, they can claim that they aren't "forcing" anyone to go there. Which is true, in a fashion. But if there is rather little else to do, it defeats the purpose. Eve has a rather good balance in that regard. As long as I don't join a player corporation, and stay in High Sec I'm unlikely to be attacked. I run L4 missions, mine a bit and mind my own business. Loons like the Goonies and their "Jihad" are a glaring example of why PvP tends to degenerate in to ganking. Stunts like that also explain the evolution of Concord.
Second of all, because again, I've seen WAY too many games turn into total gankfests. PvP tends to be the lazy approach to content. Done right(VERY rare) it can be entertaining. Done wrong, its endlessly annoying, and eventually destroys ones business model. Why do I object to gankfests you ask? Because I've been on the sticky end of the pointy stick WAY too often to enjoy it. Its NOT fun, or enjoyable to get ganked by much higher level players, with much higher level gear and much more experience. But most gankers travel in packs... So you are not only outgeared, out leveled and out experienced, you are badly out numbered. No matter how "creative" the Dev's get, open PvP tends to devolve into that.
I'm not condemning it out of hand. I plan to try it. But if they don't have a PvE rule set available, I doubt I'll stay for any length of time.
This might all be applicable to JGE if the twitch combat model didn't make ganking so much harder, even with superior numbers.
So many people are making comments about this game, forgetting that with a twitch combat system, the notion of "ganking" gets turned on its head. Not to mention that many people seem to be making assumptions and claims that compeltely fly in the face of what is confirmed about JGE. Seriously people, do your fucking homework before you bash something you don't understand. But then again, this is MMORPG.com, and I suppose QQing and complaining are about all this site is good for.
If your tired of getting ganked, learn to utilize the multiplayer part of the phrase MMORPG.
From most of the interviews that I've read they're in favor of having light penalties for losing in combat, so it sounds like there will be very little risk in this game. They seem to be sacrificing the risk in order to encourage players to get out there and play the game.
As far as the dogfighting goes - what can they do in twitch based combat flight sim to prevent "jousting"? It's the nature of that beast. I guess they could slow the fighters down and introduce inhibitors, but is that fun?
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
I have been following JGE for a while. What started out as a newer version of Jumpgate Classic is quickly turning into WAR in space, despite the many protests from the long time followers that it isn't what they are looking for. While I was extremely excited about this game before, I'm only remotely interested now. NetDevil is completely out of touch.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
This might all be applicable to JGE if the twitch combat model didn't make ganking so much harder, even with superior numbers.
So many people are making comments about this game, forgetting that with a twitch combat system, the notion of "ganking" gets turned on its head. Not to mention that many people seem to be making assumptions and claims that compeltely fly in the face of what is confirmed about JGE. Seriously people, do your fucking homework before you bash something you don't understand. But then again, this is MMORPG.com, and I suppose QQing and complaining are about all this site is good for.
If your tired of getting ganked, learn to utilize the multiplayer part of the phrase MMORPG.
Laughter... Sure, I always log in at the same time as all the other members of my guild/clan...And then we all roam around in packs to do everything... Next time, do some thinking before you shoot off your foul mouth. Not to mention, try some reading comprehension. What did I say in my last paragraph? I'll give it a try. But if its using the same old tired open PvP model, I doubt I'll stay very long.
LOL - When you have PvP areas you will have ganking in those areas. About the only way to have non-ganking PvP is to have a Guildwars like setup - an arena where everyone is the highest level possible. Some like that, but mostly everyone agrees that it sucks. So back to open PvP areas, where you will have ganking. Just my opinion.
A twitch combat model by definition makes it a different PVP mechanic. There are no heals, buffs, or anything else except your ship, equipment, and skill at piloting. And if you're outmatched, you can run away to regulated space.
If you don't have a group, don't go into areas where you need a group to survive. And if you don't have guild members online, then form a group of your own and put a stop to the ganking. That applies to just about every MMO with PVP areas.
I actually don't believe in the term "ganking". To me, it's a term invented by the uncreative carebear crowd who are better off playing a single player game, and not an MMO where other people will influence their gameplay. People just need to accept that a fight in world PVP is never going to be "fair".
I actually don't believe in the term "ganking". To me, it's a term invented by the uncreative carebear crowd who are better off playing a single player game, and not an MMO where other people will influence their gameplay. People just need to accept that a fight in world PVP is never going to be "fair".
Ok, then how about "in an open PvP area more experienced players will always be out there ready to administer a sound ass kicking to the newer player who ventures within their reach"?
Which is why less experienced players should take the time to build up their skills, friends (join a guild), and be creative in how they handle such a challenge.
I think it's all about how you look at it. I see unregulated space, open PVP, whatever you call it or whatever games call it, as a challenge. I think too many people let themselves be defeated by a challenge or a little work, so they give up.
Which is why less experienced players should take the time to build up their skills, friends (join a guild), and be creative in how they handle such a challenge.
I think it's all about how you look at it. I see unregulated space, open PVP, whatever you call it or whatever games call it, as a challenge. I think too many people let themselves be defeated by a challenge or a little work, so they give up.
BTW, I wasn't complaining - just explaining that if there is an open PvP area in a game and you go into it as a newer player, by yourself and end up dying you have nobody to blame but yourself. Just like if you jump into a shark tank and get bit or killed the fault is not on the sharks but on you for jumping in.
A twitch combat model by definition makes it a different PVP mechanic. There are no heals, buffs, or anything else except your ship, equipment, and skill at piloting. And if you're outmatched, you can run away to regulated space.
If you don't have a group, don't go into areas where you need a group to survive. And if you don't have guild members online, then form a group of your own and put a stop to the ganking. That applies to just about every MMO with PVP areas.
MMO and twitch combat don't belong in the same sentence. ^^ If I want PvP I'll play a game thats designed for it, like UT3 or Quake4(Section8 looks like fun as well). Those are much more skill related games, than MMO's tend to be, no matter what Dev's and other such may claim.
I actually don't believe in the term "ganking". To me, it's a term invented by the uncreative carebear crowd who are better off playing a single player game, and not an MMO where other people will influence their gameplay. People just need to accept that a fight in world PVP is never going to be "fair".
You may have noticed my avatar... I do not consider CareBear to be an insult. ^^ Eve has a saying something like that. "If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, you are doing something seriously wrong". ^^ Keep in mind that there tend to be a lot more CareBears out and about, than PvP types. This has been demonstrated countless times, in many different games. Thus there is more money to be made by including CareBear rule sets than not. Sooner or later, Dev's tend to come around to that realization.
For all those worrying about the PvP aspects of the game, do not.
This game will have very soft loss mechanics, the only thing you lose when and if you die is a bit of your credits for repairs, You won;t lose your ship or it equipment or even the cargo you have.
It is made so that people have fun fighting and dogfighting in space with their ships without being at the mercy of other players making them stay in a station for hours or untill they log out.
Which means, if you really want to get a juicy carrot and that carrot happens to be in an unregulated sector, you have many options available to you, for instance if you really dread the prospect of having to fight another player for it, you can wait till some other playyer sells it in the market, alternativelly you can go in alone and try to get it, alternativelly you can go in with friends and get it...it is an MMO after all, there is no sense constantly playing alone init, and you have a whole Faction in your side to help you get it, if that still doe snot seem something that you are willing to do to have fun, then why play the bloody game in the first place, save yourself the subscription and play X3 and get all the carrots you wish whenever you wish and how you wish by yourself.
JGE is set up to be a fun MMO Space game, with a nice Lore/Story and RvR element to it, it will also have consensual PvP which means that you will not have to PvP if you really do not want to PvP, on the other hand, fighting in PvP will not be different than Fighting in PvE and if you can fly and fight in PVE you can do it in PvP too in such a game (there is no Rolls in combat it is twitch based), there is really no difference , except that it is not an AI flying the enemy and it is another Human being, the rest, is suposed to be about FUN.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
I remember your name from the PotBS beta boards and game... heh, another failed PvP game. Aside from port battles, I never had a fair fight in PotBS (sounds like Eve)..... The one time I was in a 6 on 6, both sides decided to flee rather than risk their ships.... LOL.
Problem is: if I want to mine in unreg, I am going to be flying a giant space cow for a ship. Any ganker will take much joy in blasting me back to station over and over again. Sure, I could wait him out, but then someone comes to replace him. Sure, I could hire a dozen people to clear my path... but then I can't afford to pay them..... Sounds like PotBS again.... "Bring friends!" was the battle cry. And it failed.
WAR in space
Minigames , no risk , and un noticable rewards.
Not what people expected JGE to be....
Hence most old time followers lost interest. Who are Netdevil aiming this game for ?
Auto Assault fiasco 2.0
Yes it is. And you really need to start speaking for yourself. you are a single persion, you are not "We", "many" "fans" "followers".
Jumpgate has been and allways was going to be:
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Thousands of other players
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
CareBears of course...<grin> There are a lot more of us, than there are PvP types. Perhaps they learned their lesson from AA?