Seeing as SWG was scrapped mid-development and completely re-written and rushed out the door, still carrying most of the core features at release, which was 6 years ago(an eternity in MMO terms), it really isn't that far of a stretch. Any competant company would have been able to fix the bugs in the time SOE maintained the original version. Blizzard would very easily be capable of delivering such a game. If SOE could rush that game out 6 years ago, any company could re-implement those features and add some content today.
I'd love to see an open world sandbox like MMO that still had thousands of quests and real story elements instead of just fedex/kill/collect quests and missions (like SWG had) that also featured full (yet optional) open world siege PvP for territorial control and also instanced group dungeons and raids and open world crawl dungeons and world bosses and also a highly evolved crafting and economic system with player housing and cities with...
Apparently you don't know how much work making a AAA MMO really is...
and you have to realize that these games are in fact made by people. People who don't get to their desk and work non-stop feverishly for 16 hours a day, they only do that during the pre-release crunch.
Seeing as SWG was scrapped mid-development and completely re-written and rushed out the door, still carrying most of the core features at release, which was 6 years ago(an eternity in MMO terms), it really isn't that far of a stretch. Any competant company would have been able to fix the bugs in the time SOE maintained the original version. Blizzard would very easily be capable of delivering such a game. If SOE could rush that game out 6 years ago, any company could re-implement those features and add some content today.
I'd love to see an open world sandbox like MMO that still had thousands of quests and real story elements instead of just fedex/kill/collect quests and missions (like SWG had) that also featured full (yet optional) open world siege PvP for territorial control and also instanced group dungeons and raids and open world crawl dungeons and world bosses and also a highly evolved crafting and economic system with player housing and cities with...
Apparently you don't know how much work making a AAA MMO really is...
and you have to realize that these games are in fact made by people. People who don't get to their desk and work non-stop feverishly for 16 hours a day, they only do that during the pre-release crunch.
I'm a developer, I don't need you telling me what I do and do not know about how hard software development is.
To have more "content" does not mean to have all of that.
Like I said, if SOE could do it before, another company could do it again. With a little more man power and a little more time, they could do it better.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Originally posted by Abrahmm Seeing as SWG was scrapped mid-development and completely re-written and rushed out the door, still carrying most of the core features at release, which was 6 years ago(an eternity in MMO terms), it really isn't that far of a stretch. Any competant company would have been able to fix the bugs in the time SOE maintained the original version. Blizzard would very easily be capable of delivering such a game. If SOE could rush that game out 6 years ago, any company could re-implement those features and add some content today.
Did you play SWG in closed beta? It was the only time I played the game.
There was a very good post in beta forums aimed at developers discussing promised content and features. He listed all the promises and only about 30 percent made it to the release. Most of that content was still bugged or badly polished.
Blizzard on the other hand produced a very simplistic game without too many bells and whistles. Focus was on polish. Btw, I quit WoW for the first time after a month or two, but before the MC raiding really started because there simply was nothing to do once you had completed your T1 dungeon sets plus other gear. Nothing. The end game was not so well polished, but because it took people relatively long to get there, it did not bother that many (albeit it did bother some, and there also where some doom and gloom posts about WoW).
WoW at the launch was a very simple levelling game with few instances thrown in and of which many were still bugged. However, because it was so easy to get into, you had such a high number of new subcribers coming in. The simplicity of levelling your character is what made people to log in. I could almost feel the invisible hand guiding me and see the carrot dangling in front.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
I'm a developer, I don't need you telling me what I do and do not know about how hard software development is. To have more "content" does not mean to have all of that. Like I said, if SOE could do it before, another company could do it again. With a little more man power and a little more time, they could do it better.
Do you develope hopes and dreams or actual games?
Cause every GAME developer I have ever talked to tells me the same thing:
You always try and do too much and end up with a lot of things on the chopping block and cutting room floor.
You pick what you can do, try and push for what you THINK you can do, and end up at the end of the production cycle with something that hopefully matches the initial vision fairly well, but it's never as complete and full as you would have hoped it to be.
This is why they have producers. To tell developers what they can and can't accomplish. In a perfect world with unlimited development talent, time, money, etc. you wouldn't need a producer and you'd have a very clean cutting room floor.
Originally posted by Abrahmm Seeing as SWG was scrapped mid-development and completely re-written and rushed out the door, still carrying most of the core features at release, which was 6 years ago(an eternity in MMO terms), it really isn't that far of a stretch. Any competant company would have been able to fix the bugs in the time SOE maintained the original version. Blizzard would very easily be capable of delivering such a game. If SOE could rush that game out 6 years ago, any company could re-implement those features and add some content today.
Did you play SWG in closed beta? It was the only time I played the game.
There was a very good post in beta forums aimed at developers discussing promised content and features. He listed all the promises and only about 30 percent made it to the release. Most of that content was still bugged or badly polished.
Blizzard on the other hand produced a very simplistic game without too many bells and whistles. And later added to it. Btw, I quit WoW for the first time after a month or two, but before the MC raiding really started because there simply was nothing to do once you had completed your T1 dungeon sets plus other gear. Nothing.
WoW at the launch was a very simple levelling game with few instances thrown in and of which many were still bugged. However, because it was so easy to get into, you had such a high number of new subcribers coming in. The simplicity of levelling your character is what made people to log in. I could almost see the carrot dangling in front of me.
No, I never played closed beta. And I am not surprised that SOE promised things that never made it in, as they did that constantly for the entire duration of the game(They were promising the FRS was coming back after the CU right up until the NGE came out, when the whole time they knew full well there would be no FRS). SOE has always managed the game poorly.
I'm also not saying the game would come out of the factory with all of the features working perfectly. But any respectable company, given the time SOE had(what, almost 2 years?) would have fixed a majority of the bugs by then, instead of ignoring them and continually re-writing the game. I still think that if SOE had actually fixed stuff and added content instead of whatever it was they were actually doing, SWG would have been a much better(and probably more successful) game than it was.
Seeing it has already been done, even while poorly managed, I don't see how it couldn't be done again. Obviously it would take a big development house to do it, seeing as an indie team probably wouldn't have the time or resources to take on such a feat. And since big development houses don't want to go after, so called "niche" markets, something like this will probably never happen. But it is still possible.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Lets see to adress a few points here, the game is still under development with at least two classes unannounced. No idea at the moment of max level, how many hours of gameplay the story line quests are, what will be in the game what won't. The only for sure thing is that it Won't be another horrible abortion of a game like SWG was. Yes I played it at a launch of the origional version for six months. Point blank it SUCKED, the bugs were horrible, the nerf bat swung dayly, and all anyone ever did was bitch that his or her class got owned by another.
Hell you couldn't even play as a commando the whole class was broken, and instead of fixing it all sony redid the whole game because they had lost to many players. Sony handled it badly, get over yourself and get over it, at this point it is history dead in the water, and not worth discussing anymore. I've been patient and calm up till now but hearing the same thing over and over just ticks me off. Think back, really think back on SWG when it launched and remember the constant crashes, the having a nest of mobs spawn on you, and just how much crafting sucked. Sure if you hung in there for months you could make yourself a little trade empire. That sadly was not true to star wars at all, heroes come from farms and factories, they don't make them.
For the people not liking the story driven idea, play LoTRo it's story driven, with 60 lvls now, and I'd say a solid three months of game play to do everything. Just because a game is story driven does not mean there isn't a world to it outside that story. So if you say have 90+ hours of story based quests I am sure there is another 200+ hours of non story line ones, and maybe another 500 in just exploring worlds.
So ya can't build your own city, I like it that way, star wars planets are sparsly populated outside of the main cities, I don't want to go to dantooine and find a major trade hub there outside of the star port. We will most likely not have free form space flight, maybe ever, but SWG didn't have it for years.
I agree 100% with the op this is a bioware game, which means it will feel more like an rpg, that means when you do something awsome it will feel awsome.
To those people not complaining, I appoligize, I am just fed up with the same sob story from people that have no one else but themselves to blame since they didn't put a stop to the devs nerfing the game in the first part. Focus your devs on fixing bugs, the classes will balanace out once people learn to play them.
What an absolutely retarded statement to make. Asserting to someone that their preferences are wrong as if it is a fact. You people never cease to amaze me.
My post was in response to the MANY retarded statements that someone else made as if they were fact. The guy was acting like an authoritarian on all gamers by saying
"every real gamer should be demanding that bioware ditch the level based system and do what all of us want and make tor a pre-cu skill based sandbox game"
He's saying that everybody who shares his viewpoint are the true gamers. Yet amazingly that part doesn't bother you. I guess your outrage depends on which side a person is on. So please spare me the drama.
Lets see to adress a few points here, the game is still under development with at least two classes unannounced. No idea at the moment of max level, how many hours of gameplay the story line quests are, what will be in the game what won't. The only for sure thing is that it Won't be another horrible abortion of a game like SWG was. Yes I played it at a launch of the origional version for six months. Point blank it SUCKED, the bugs were horrible, the nerf bat swung dayly, and all anyone ever did was bitch that his or her class got owned by another. Hell you couldn't even play as a commando the whole class was broken, and instead of fixing it all sony redid the whole game because they had lost to many players. Sony handled it badly, get over yourself and get over it, at this point it is history dead in the water, and not worth discussing anymore. I've been patient and calm up till now but hearing the same thing over and over just ticks me off. Think back, really think back on SWG when it launched and remember the constant crashes, the having a nest of mobs spawn on you, and just how much crafting sucked. Sure if you hung in there for months you could make yourself a little trade empire. That sadly was not true to star wars at all, heroes come from farms and factories, they don't make them. For the people not liking the story driven idea, play LoTRo it's story driven, with 60 lvls now, and I'd say a solid three months of game play to do everything. Just because a game is story driven does not mean there isn't a world to it outside that story. So if you say have 90+ hours of story based quests I am sure there is another 200+ hours of non story line ones, and maybe another 500 in just exploring worlds. So ya can't build your own city, I like it that way, star wars planets are sparsly populated outside of the main cities, I don't want to go to dantooine and find a major trade hub there outside of the star port. We will most likely not have free form space flight, maybe ever, but SWG didn't have it for years. I agree 100% with the op this is a bioware game, which means it will feel more like an rpg, that means when you do something awsome it will feel awsome. To those people not complaining, I appoligize, I am just fed up with the same sob story from people that have no one else but themselves to blame since they didn't put a stop to the devs nerfing the game in the first part. Focus your devs on fixing bugs, the classes will balanace out once people learn to play them.
I'm with ya. It gets old seeing the same drama queens performing the same boring routine in every thread.
What an absolutely retarded statement to make. Asserting to someone that their preferences are wrong as if it is a fact. You people never cease to amaze me.
My post was in response to the MANY retarded statements that someone else made as if they were fact. The guy was acting like an authoritarian on all gamers by saying
"every real gamer should be demanding that bioware ditch the level based system and do what all of us want and make tor a pre-cu skill based sandbox game"
He's saying that everybody who shares his viewpoint are the true gamers. Yet amazingly that part doesn't bother you. I guess your outrage depends on which side a person is on. So please spare me the drama.
His statements were so ridiculous and outlandish that I have trouble believing it was anything more than a mere troll, and find it impossible to believe he was actually serious. You on the other hand, are dead serious and have made such assertions before.
It's not about which side you are on, it's about common sense. Don't feed the trolls.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
What an absolutely retarded statement to make. Asserting to someone that their preferences are wrong as if it is a fact. You people never cease to amaze me.
My post was in response to the MANY retarded statements that someone else made as if they were fact. The guy was acting like an authoritarian on all gamers by saying
"every real gamer should be demanding that bioware ditch the level based system and do what all of us want and make tor a pre-cu skill based sandbox game"
He's saying that everybody who shares his viewpoint are the true gamers. Yet amazingly that part doesn't bother you. I guess your outrage depends on which side a person is on. So please spare me the drama.
His statements were so ridiculous and outlandish that I have trouble believing it was anything more than a mere troll, and find it impossible to believe he was actually serious. You on the other hand, are dead serious and have made such assertions before.
It's not about which side you are on, it's about common sense. Don't feed the trolls.
Saying that I thought the game sucked and was boring was not out of order. I was stating my opinion which last I heard was okay .If you don't like reading what I wrote then feel free to put me on ignore.And thanks for the fortune cookie wisdom, but I think I'll listen to the real moderators when it comes to forum protocal.
Meh I liked SWG pre-cu. Looking back it was boring and could have been better than it was. If they had put the content they have now in the game (as lame as it is) SWG would have done better. Mission Terminals and fetch missions were their idea of content. When you have TV commentators making comments about laughable dancing wookies, empty large areas with nothing to do, within the first few months of launch, you gotta problem Houston.
When I first stepped into SWG back in the 2004 I though it was cool. Running across Tatooine reminded me of a Star Wars version of the game Tribes. Combat didn’t feel RPG sluggish like it did in EQ. I had plenty to do in the game I would say for around the 6-7 months, then I began having those “I’m bored” days from time to time. But yeah, the first 6 months was a blast.
It could have been better, and I hope Bioware makes TOR better, no shortcuts, ect. Take the time to make a game everyone can like.
What an absolutely retarded statement to make. Asserting to someone that their preferences are wrong as if it is a fact. You people never cease to amaze me.
My post was in response to the MANY retarded statements that someone else made as if they were fact. The guy was acting like an authoritarian on all gamers by saying
"every real gamer should be demanding that bioware ditch the level based system and do what all of us want and make tor a pre-cu skill based sandbox game"
He's saying that everybody who shares his viewpoint are the true gamers. Yet amazingly that part doesn't bother you. I guess your outrage depends on which side a person is on. So please spare me the drama.
His statements were so ridiculous and outlandish that I have trouble believing it was anything more than a mere troll, and find it impossible to believe he was actually serious. You on the other hand, are dead serious and have made such assertions before.
It's not about which side you are on, it's about common sense. Don't feed the trolls.
Saying that I thought the game sucked and was boring was not out of order. I was stating my opinion which last I heard was okay .If you don't like reading what I wrote then feel free to put me on ignore.And thanks for the fortune cookie wisdom, but I think I'll listen to the real moderators when it comes to forum protocal.
And you again missed my entire point that you asserted your opinion as a fact. The whole forum is dedicated to voicing and discussing opinions. You present yours as the almighty truth. "Face it, your game sucked" is not presenting a personal opinion.
If I put you on ignore, I wouldn't be able to see and call you out on the complete rubbish and personal jabs you are constantly spewing on this forum.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Meh I liked SWG pre-cu. Looking back it was boring and could have been better than it was. If they had put the content they have now in the game (as lame as it is) SWG would have done better. Mission Terminals and fetch missions were their idea of content. When you have TV commentators making comments about laughable dancing wookies, empty large areas with nothing to do, within the first few months of launch, you gotta problem Houston. When I first stepped into SWG back in the 2004 I though it was cool. Running across Tatooine reminded me of a Star Wars version of the game Tribes. Combat didn’t feel RPG sluggish like it did in EQ. I had plenty to do in the game I would say for around the 6-7 months, then I began having those “I’m bored” days from time to time. But yeah, the first 6 months was a blast. It could have been better, and I hope Bioware makes TOR better, no shortcuts, ect. Take the time to make a game everyone can like.
I agree completely. The game needed more, and would have been a lot better with more, but I think the foundation for an amazing game was there, but not fully utilized. I had a few "I'm bored" days, but for the most part I was very easily able to stay busy and continue to have fun.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
look around at this board or any board and you will see the samething people demanding sandbox games that is why swg pre-cu is one of the most talked about and loved games ever untill it was stolen from us no levels 32+ classes with unlockable jedi one of the greatest crafting systems ever not only that we didn't need lame quests from npcs we had one of the best pvp systems in the world and had 3 day long battles in swg what is bioware giving us? another lame wow rip off every real gamer should be demanding that bioware ditch the level based system and do what all of us what and make tor a pre-cu skill based sandbox game
I see a handful of repeat whiners. If there were that many people wanting sandbox games, the genre wouldn't be heading in the direction it is and where the money is.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
And you again missed my entire point that you asserted your opinion as a fact. The whole forum is dedicated to voicing and discussing opinions. You present yours as the almighty truth. "Face it, your game sucked" is not presenting a personal opinion. Because he presented his as the almighty truth. See how that works? But for the record, I don't think any of my opinions are the almighty truth. I just don't like people insinuating that they know it all and the rest of us don't.If you expect me to let something like that fly by then you are sadly mistaken. If I put you on ignore, I wouldn't be able to see and call you out on the complete rubbish and personal jabs you are constantly spewing on this forum. My is that ever the pot calling the kettle black. When you throw insults my way, I come back with heavier insults. I never start a fight until someone else decides to.I wasn't even addressing you as I've learned that doing so is a complete waste of effort. But if you decide to stick your nose into one of my conversations then expect to be insulted. Like I said, it would be far easier to just put me on ignore if my opinions about SWG upsets you so much. I don't go to the SWG veterans forum or any other sandbox game and blast my opinions .I respect the fact that it's a forum for their favorite games and it would be completely rude for me to go in there and demand their games to be changed towards what I like. That's just rude and insulting. So if it seems like I'm less than courteous to you folks who constantly come in here about a game that has nothing to do with TOR and start demanding that it be changed towards a game that some of us hated, then expect to be jabbed, elbowed and told in un-flattering terms what we think about your cherished holy grail.
look around at this board or any board and you will see the samething people demanding sandbox games that is why swg pre-cu is one of the most talked about and loved games ever untill it was stolen from us no levels 32+ classes with unlockable jedi one of the greatest crafting systems ever not only that we didn't need lame quests from npcs we had one of the best pvp systems in the world and had 3 day long battles in swg what is bioware giving us? another lame wow rip off every real gamer should be demanding that bioware ditch the level based system and do what all of us what and make tor a pre-cu skill based sandbox game
I see a handful of repeat whiners. If there were that many people wanting sandbox games, the genre wouldn't be heading in the direction it is and where the money is.
QFE.The most funny part of the post was his claim that it's what EVERYONE wants. I guess all the people who left SWG for World of Warcraft and other games are all secretly wishing they could be back playing that great game SWG again.;)
look around at this board or any board and you will see the samething
people demanding sandbox games
that is why swg pre-cu is one of the most talked about and loved games ever untill it was stolen from us no levels 32+ classes with unlockable jedi one of the greatest crafting systems ever not only that we didn't need lame quests from npcs we had one of the best pvp systems in the world and had 3 day long battles in swg
what is bioware giving us? another lame wow rip off
every real gamer should be demanding that bioware ditch the level based system and do what all of us what and make tor a pre-cu skill based sandbox game
I see a handful of repeat whiners. If there were that many people wanting sandbox games, the genre wouldn't be heading in the direction it is and where the money is.
Right, because the industry has been spot-on in all of its assumptions of what people want. Ever wonder why you have fail after fail after fail of all these new games? Hint: It directly refutes your statement. The genre is heading in the direction it is because that's where companies THINK the money is. They are chasing the WoW crowd, and they are disappointed (as SOE was) as they fall short of their expectations. That doesn't deter them from acting like lemmings and jumping off the same cliff as WoW - it just means the WoW lemming went first and had a hang glider.
You should be thanking the "handful of repeat whiners" to which you refer. Because of the "handful of repeat whiners", you are not going to see a company attempt the wholesale type of changes that SOE did with the NGE ever again. You will not hear a MMO company tell you, and most of the others who play your game, "We didn't even consider you when we made these changes. We seriously do not care in the least what you decide to do, as we changed your game to be fun for someone else. Play, don't play, you are irrelevant. Thanks for the previous years of cash, though." So, you're welcome.
I don't totally agree with stillkillin, as I don't see people demanding sandbox games as much as he evidently does, nor do I feel that every "real gamer" should be demanding anything of Bioware, nor do I feel that skill-based games are what all of us want. I certainly want it, and I'd want it in a Star Wars environment, but Bioware wants to do their thing, and that's fine. They should succeed at it. They aren't going to do the kill-10-nunas-and-report-back garbage. I'm pretty stoked for this game, regardless of whether it's SWG2 or its own beast. It won't quite be WoW, and that's good enough for me.
This game will sell loads no doubt and then bomb like the rest of the themepark shite on the market
Whats sad is biorware are unabe to produce something that really delivers player created content, oh well we shouldnt moan, it was to be expected. Those who like limitations, restrictions and being hand held from point a to b will love it.
SWTOR = Themepark, spoon fed content... This game will sell loads no doubt and then bomb like the rest of the themepark shite on the market
Whats sad is biorware are unabe to produce something that really delivers player created content, oh well we shouldnt moan, it was to be expected. Those who like limitations, restrictions and being hand held from point a to b will love it.
Go play Darkfall or EVE as SW:ToR is obviously not for you.
Don't waste your time and my time bitching about something you are obviously not going to play. Reported.
No doubt in my mind that person was obviously trolling.
(I won't quote it incase it gets deleted)
What he just described is pretty much all AAA MMOs from now till forever. That’s just the way it is, unless you pick up some crappy Indie game that has at the most a dedicated fanbase of a few thousand players, and can’t make it past the 2 year mark due to the fact that it costs more to operate then they make in subs. The only way any Indie game can survive is if it’s FTP with RMT.
The problem I have here is people shouting up and down sand box rules because a lot of the last mmo's have failed, the bad part here is they really haven't. A failed mmo is one that has had all servers closed and is no more. IE Tabula Rasa, Shadowbane, and many others. Most people that show they hate theme park style games with no player made content are not looking at the fact that most of the games that are still going along pretty good are those types.
First two sand box style game I played were SWG and shadowbane I cancled my sub in one week, the only reason shadowbane lasted as long as it did was no one paid for a sub for the first year it was out. They kept giving people free months to fix it. SWG was terribly done, player made content means to me that someone was to lazy to actually make a game that worked.
If sandboxes ruled we would have a lot more of them than we do of the other type.
The problem is not in that it is a theme park, story driven game, it is in how the people making it made the game. We as players have gotten used to not having to grind so much to level. Having the feathures promissed to us, and the things we want to see.
LoTRo could have given wow a run for it's money if they had waiting to launch it for a few more months and had evendim in the game at launch. The added quests would have allowed people to reach max level easier. AoC needed at least three months so they could get pvp and the pvp areas in the game right, and they needed more quests. Vanguarded needed three to four more months of work minimum and a lot more beta and alpha testing.
When if comes to BioWare you got to remember they pride themselves on excilence, they recalled and redid myth 2 because of a bug. If you hate that a game will make you feel like your in a world go play something else. Simple fact of life, no one likes the same things, if we did there wouldn't be like 200 different flavors of ice cream.
Uumm, since when was EVE sandbox at all? Do you know what "sandox" is? BioWare games are about choices, but they leave out a lot. It's like a sportscar without an engine and gears. Imagine a BioWare game, where you can build your own a castle, build your own space station and even build the interior for it, where you are not limited by your class and you can use, equip anything. You sit in it and imitate you race on a highway and make the noise with your mouth BRRRRR, WRRRRRR. The freedom of choice is the where you need to start. Once you learned enough about sandbox, then come back and post again. SWG had a sandbox structure without enough content, as it looks SWTOR has the content, but missing key features that help to immerse yourself in the STAR WARS universe - in-depth crafting system, huge open world without limitations(ie. you must go to zone3 from level20 to 30)skilled based character development, no forced factions, classes, etc everything you'd imagine and would love to do in the STAR WARS universe. They may even announce these, but I highly doubt that. BioWare wants to beat WoW and in that they will fail.
For those who question if EVE is sandbox, CCP has recently released this, enjoy.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
The problem I have here is people shouting up and down sand box rules because a lot of the last mmo's have failed, the bad part here is they really haven't. A failed mmo is one that has had all servers closed and is no more. IE Tabula Rasa, Shadowbane, and many others. Most people that show they hate theme park style games with no player made content are not looking at the fact that most of the games that are still going along pretty good are those types. First two sand box style game I played were SWG and shadowbane I cancled my sub in one week, the only reason shadowbane lasted as long as it did was no one paid for a sub for the first year it was out. They kept giving people free months to fix it. SWG was terribly done, player made content means to me that someone was to lazy to actually make a game that worked. If sandboxes ruled we would have a lot more of them than we do of the other type. The problem is not in that it is a theme park, story driven game, it is in how the people making it made the game. We as players have gotten used to not having to grind so much to level. Having the feathures promissed to us, and the things we want to see. LoTRo could have given wow a run for it's money if they had waiting to launch it for a few more months and had evendim in the game at launch. The added quests would have allowed people to reach max level easier. AoC needed at least three months so they could get pvp and the pvp areas in the game right, and they needed more quests. Vanguarded needed three to four more months of work minimum and a lot more beta and alpha testing. When if comes to BioWare you got to remember they pride themselves on excilence, they recalled and redid myth 2 because of a bug. If you hate that a game will make you feel like your in a world go play something else. Simple fact of life, no one likes the same things, if we did there wouldn't be like 200 different flavors of ice cream.
Don't forget the SIMS Online which was the ultimate "A Day in the Life" game. Very few folks want to pay $15 a month to live a second life online, which is really what a lot of these sandboxers want to do.
Comments
I'd love to see an open world sandbox like MMO that still had thousands of quests and real story elements instead of just fedex/kill/collect quests and missions (like SWG had) that also featured full (yet optional) open world siege PvP for territorial control and also instanced group dungeons and raids and open world crawl dungeons and world bosses and also a highly evolved crafting and economic system with player housing and cities with...
Apparently you don't know how much work making a AAA MMO really is...
and you have to realize that these games are in fact made by people. People who don't get to their desk and work non-stop feverishly for 16 hours a day, they only do that during the pre-release crunch.
Your opinion is immaterial.
I'd love to see an open world sandbox like MMO that still had thousands of quests and real story elements instead of just fedex/kill/collect quests and missions (like SWG had) that also featured full (yet optional) open world siege PvP for territorial control and also instanced group dungeons and raids and open world crawl dungeons and world bosses and also a highly evolved crafting and economic system with player housing and cities with...
Apparently you don't know how much work making a AAA MMO really is...
and you have to realize that these games are in fact made by people. People who don't get to their desk and work non-stop feverishly for 16 hours a day, they only do that during the pre-release crunch.
I'm a developer, I don't need you telling me what I do and do not know about how hard software development is.
To have more "content" does not mean to have all of that.
Like I said, if SOE could do it before, another company could do it again. With a little more man power and a little more time, they could do it better.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Did you play SWG in closed beta? It was the only time I played the game.
There was a very good post in beta forums aimed at developers discussing promised content and features. He listed all the promises and only about 30 percent made it to the release. Most of that content was still bugged or badly polished.
Blizzard on the other hand produced a very simplistic game without too many bells and whistles. Focus was on polish. Btw, I quit WoW for the first time after a month or two, but before the MC raiding really started because there simply was nothing to do once you had completed your T1 dungeon sets plus other gear. Nothing. The end game was not so well polished, but because it took people relatively long to get there, it did not bother that many (albeit it did bother some, and there also where some doom and gloom posts about WoW).
WoW at the launch was a very simple levelling game with few instances thrown in and of which many were still bugged. However, because it was so easy to get into, you had such a high number of new subcribers coming in. The simplicity of levelling your character is what made people to log in. I could almost feel the invisible hand guiding me and see the carrot dangling in front.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Do you develope hopes and dreams or actual games?
Cause every GAME developer I have ever talked to tells me the same thing:
You always try and do too much and end up with a lot of things on the chopping block and cutting room floor.
You pick what you can do, try and push for what you THINK you can do, and end up at the end of the production cycle with something that hopefully matches the initial vision fairly well, but it's never as complete and full as you would have hoped it to be.
This is why they have producers. To tell developers what they can and can't accomplish. In a perfect world with unlimited development talent, time, money, etc. you wouldn't need a producer and you'd have a very clean cutting room floor.
Your opinion is immaterial.
Did you play SWG in closed beta? It was the only time I played the game.
There was a very good post in beta forums aimed at developers discussing promised content and features. He listed all the promises and only about 30 percent made it to the release. Most of that content was still bugged or badly polished.
Blizzard on the other hand produced a very simplistic game without too many bells and whistles. And later added to it. Btw, I quit WoW for the first time after a month or two, but before the MC raiding really started because there simply was nothing to do once you had completed your T1 dungeon sets plus other gear. Nothing.
WoW at the launch was a very simple levelling game with few instances thrown in and of which many were still bugged. However, because it was so easy to get into, you had such a high number of new subcribers coming in. The simplicity of levelling your character is what made people to log in. I could almost see the carrot dangling in front of me.
No, I never played closed beta. And I am not surprised that SOE promised things that never made it in, as they did that constantly for the entire duration of the game(They were promising the FRS was coming back after the CU right up until the NGE came out, when the whole time they knew full well there would be no FRS). SOE has always managed the game poorly.
I'm also not saying the game would come out of the factory with all of the features working perfectly. But any respectable company, given the time SOE had(what, almost 2 years?) would have fixed a majority of the bugs by then, instead of ignoring them and continually re-writing the game. I still think that if SOE had actually fixed stuff and added content instead of whatever it was they were actually doing, SWG would have been a much better(and probably more successful) game than it was.
Seeing it has already been done, even while poorly managed, I don't see how it couldn't be done again. Obviously it would take a big development house to do it, seeing as an indie team probably wouldn't have the time or resources to take on such a feat. And since big development houses don't want to go after, so called "niche" markets, something like this will probably never happen. But it is still possible.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Lets see to adress a few points here, the game is still under development with at least two classes unannounced. No idea at the moment of max level, how many hours of gameplay the story line quests are, what will be in the game what won't. The only for sure thing is that it Won't be another horrible abortion of a game like SWG was. Yes I played it at a launch of the origional version for six months. Point blank it SUCKED, the bugs were horrible, the nerf bat swung dayly, and all anyone ever did was bitch that his or her class got owned by another.
Hell you couldn't even play as a commando the whole class was broken, and instead of fixing it all sony redid the whole game because they had lost to many players. Sony handled it badly, get over yourself and get over it, at this point it is history dead in the water, and not worth discussing anymore. I've been patient and calm up till now but hearing the same thing over and over just ticks me off. Think back, really think back on SWG when it launched and remember the constant crashes, the having a nest of mobs spawn on you, and just how much crafting sucked. Sure if you hung in there for months you could make yourself a little trade empire. That sadly was not true to star wars at all, heroes come from farms and factories, they don't make them.
For the people not liking the story driven idea, play LoTRo it's story driven, with 60 lvls now, and I'd say a solid three months of game play to do everything. Just because a game is story driven does not mean there isn't a world to it outside that story. So if you say have 90+ hours of story based quests I am sure there is another 200+ hours of non story line ones, and maybe another 500 in just exploring worlds.
So ya can't build your own city, I like it that way, star wars planets are sparsly populated outside of the main cities, I don't want to go to dantooine and find a major trade hub there outside of the star port. We will most likely not have free form space flight, maybe ever, but SWG didn't have it for years.
I agree 100% with the op this is a bioware game, which means it will feel more like an rpg, that means when you do something awsome it will feel awsome.
To those people not complaining, I appoligize, I am just fed up with the same sob story from people that have no one else but themselves to blame since they didn't put a stop to the devs nerfing the game in the first part. Focus your devs on fixing bugs, the classes will balanace out once people learn to play them.
What an absolutely retarded statement to make. Asserting to someone that their preferences are wrong as if it is a fact. You people never cease to amaze me.
My post was in response to the MANY retarded statements that someone else made as if they were fact. The guy was acting like an authoritarian on all gamers by saying
"every real gamer should be demanding that bioware ditch the level based system and do what all of us want and make tor a pre-cu skill based sandbox game"
He's saying that everybody who shares his viewpoint are the true gamers. Yet amazingly that part doesn't bother you. I guess your outrage depends on which side a person is on. So please spare me the drama.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I'm with ya. It gets old seeing the same drama queens performing the same boring routine in every thread.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
What an absolutely retarded statement to make. Asserting to someone that their preferences are wrong as if it is a fact. You people never cease to amaze me.
My post was in response to the MANY retarded statements that someone else made as if they were fact. The guy was acting like an authoritarian on all gamers by saying
"every real gamer should be demanding that bioware ditch the level based system and do what all of us want and make tor a pre-cu skill based sandbox game"
He's saying that everybody who shares his viewpoint are the true gamers. Yet amazingly that part doesn't bother you. I guess your outrage depends on which side a person is on. So please spare me the drama.
His statements were so ridiculous and outlandish that I have trouble believing it was anything more than a mere troll, and find it impossible to believe he was actually serious. You on the other hand, are dead serious and have made such assertions before.
It's not about which side you are on, it's about common sense. Don't feed the trolls.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
What an absolutely retarded statement to make. Asserting to someone that their preferences are wrong as if it is a fact. You people never cease to amaze me.
My post was in response to the MANY retarded statements that someone else made as if they were fact. The guy was acting like an authoritarian on all gamers by saying
"every real gamer should be demanding that bioware ditch the level based system and do what all of us want and make tor a pre-cu skill based sandbox game"
He's saying that everybody who shares his viewpoint are the true gamers. Yet amazingly that part doesn't bother you. I guess your outrage depends on which side a person is on. So please spare me the drama.
His statements were so ridiculous and outlandish that I have trouble believing it was anything more than a mere troll, and find it impossible to believe he was actually serious. You on the other hand, are dead serious and have made such assertions before.
It's not about which side you are on, it's about common sense. Don't feed the trolls.
Saying that I thought the game sucked and was boring was not out of order. I was stating my opinion which last I heard was okay .If you don't like reading what I wrote then feel free to put me on ignore.And thanks for the fortune cookie wisdom, but I think I'll listen to the real moderators when it comes to forum protocal.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Meh I liked SWG pre-cu. Looking back it was boring and could have been better than it was. If they had put the content they have now in the game (as lame as it is) SWG would have done better. Mission Terminals and fetch missions were their idea of content. When you have TV commentators making comments about laughable dancing wookies, empty large areas with nothing to do, within the first few months of launch, you gotta problem Houston.
When I first stepped into SWG back in the 2004 I though it was cool. Running across Tatooine reminded me of a Star Wars version of the game Tribes. Combat didn’t feel RPG sluggish like it did in EQ. I had plenty to do in the game I would say for around the 6-7 months, then I began having those “I’m bored” days from time to time. But yeah, the first 6 months was a blast.
It could have been better, and I hope Bioware makes TOR better, no shortcuts, ect. Take the time to make a game everyone can like.
What an absolutely retarded statement to make. Asserting to someone that their preferences are wrong as if it is a fact. You people never cease to amaze me.
My post was in response to the MANY retarded statements that someone else made as if they were fact. The guy was acting like an authoritarian on all gamers by saying
"every real gamer should be demanding that bioware ditch the level based system and do what all of us want and make tor a pre-cu skill based sandbox game"
He's saying that everybody who shares his viewpoint are the true gamers. Yet amazingly that part doesn't bother you. I guess your outrage depends on which side a person is on. So please spare me the drama.
His statements were so ridiculous and outlandish that I have trouble believing it was anything more than a mere troll, and find it impossible to believe he was actually serious. You on the other hand, are dead serious and have made such assertions before.
It's not about which side you are on, it's about common sense. Don't feed the trolls.
Saying that I thought the game sucked and was boring was not out of order. I was stating my opinion which last I heard was okay .If you don't like reading what I wrote then feel free to put me on ignore.And thanks for the fortune cookie wisdom, but I think I'll listen to the real moderators when it comes to forum protocal.
And you again missed my entire point that you asserted your opinion as a fact. The whole forum is dedicated to voicing and discussing opinions. You present yours as the almighty truth. "Face it, your game sucked" is not presenting a personal opinion.
If I put you on ignore, I wouldn't be able to see and call you out on the complete rubbish and personal jabs you are constantly spewing on this forum.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I agree completely. The game needed more, and would have been a lot better with more, but I think the foundation for an amazing game was there, but not fully utilized. I had a few "I'm bored" days, but for the most part I was very easily able to stay busy and continue to have fun.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I see a handful of repeat whiners. If there were that many people wanting sandbox games, the genre wouldn't be heading in the direction it is and where the money is.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I see a handful of repeat whiners. If there were that many people wanting sandbox games, the genre wouldn't be heading in the direction it is and where the money is.
QFE.The most funny part of the post was his claim that it's what EVERYONE wants. I guess all the people who left SWG for World of Warcraft and other games are all secretly wishing they could be back playing that great game SWG again.;)
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Right, because the industry has been spot-on in all of its assumptions of what people want. Ever wonder why you have fail after fail after fail of all these new games? Hint: It directly refutes your statement. The genre is heading in the direction it is because that's where companies THINK the money is. They are chasing the WoW crowd, and they are disappointed (as SOE was) as they fall short of their expectations. That doesn't deter them from acting like lemmings and jumping off the same cliff as WoW - it just means the WoW lemming went first and had a hang glider.
You should be thanking the "handful of repeat whiners" to which you refer. Because of the "handful of repeat whiners", you are not going to see a company attempt the wholesale type of changes that SOE did with the NGE ever again. You will not hear a MMO company tell you, and most of the others who play your game, "We didn't even consider you when we made these changes. We seriously do not care in the least what you decide to do, as we changed your game to be fun for someone else. Play, don't play, you are irrelevant. Thanks for the previous years of cash, though." So, you're welcome.
I don't totally agree with stillkillin, as I don't see people demanding sandbox games as much as he evidently does, nor do I feel that every "real gamer" should be demanding anything of Bioware, nor do I feel that skill-based games are what all of us want. I certainly want it, and I'd want it in a Star Wars environment, but Bioware wants to do their thing, and that's fine. They should succeed at it. They aren't going to do the kill-10-nunas-and-report-back garbage. I'm pretty stoked for this game, regardless of whether it's SWG2 or its own beast. It won't quite be WoW, and that's good enough for me.
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
SWTOR = Themepark, spoon fed content...
This game will sell loads no doubt and then bomb like the rest of the themepark shite on the market
Whats sad is biorware are unabe to produce something that really delivers player created content, oh well we shouldnt moan, it was to be expected. Those who like limitations, restrictions and being hand held from point a to b will love it.
Go play Darkfall or EVE as SW:ToR is obviously not for you.
Don't waste your time and my time bitching about something you are obviously not going to play. Reported.
Your opinion is immaterial.
No doubt in my mind that person was obviously trolling.
(I won't quote it incase it gets deleted)
What he just described is pretty much all AAA MMOs from now till forever. That’s just the way it is, unless you pick up some crappy Indie game that has at the most a dedicated fanbase of a few thousand players, and can’t make it past the 2 year mark due to the fact that it costs more to operate then they make in subs. The only way any Indie game can survive is if it’s FTP with RMT.
Post Deleted.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
The problem I have here is people shouting up and down sand box rules because a lot of the last mmo's have failed, the bad part here is they really haven't. A failed mmo is one that has had all servers closed and is no more. IE Tabula Rasa, Shadowbane, and many others. Most people that show they hate theme park style games with no player made content are not looking at the fact that most of the games that are still going along pretty good are those types.
First two sand box style game I played were SWG and shadowbane I cancled my sub in one week, the only reason shadowbane lasted as long as it did was no one paid for a sub for the first year it was out. They kept giving people free months to fix it. SWG was terribly done, player made content means to me that someone was to lazy to actually make a game that worked.
If sandboxes ruled we would have a lot more of them than we do of the other type.
The problem is not in that it is a theme park, story driven game, it is in how the people making it made the game. We as players have gotten used to not having to grind so much to level. Having the feathures promissed to us, and the things we want to see.
LoTRo could have given wow a run for it's money if they had waiting to launch it for a few more months and had evendim in the game at launch. The added quests would have allowed people to reach max level easier. AoC needed at least three months so they could get pvp and the pvp areas in the game right, and they needed more quests. Vanguarded needed three to four more months of work minimum and a lot more beta and alpha testing.
When if comes to BioWare you got to remember they pride themselves on excilence, they recalled and redid myth 2 because of a bug. If you hate that a game will make you feel like your in a world go play something else. Simple fact of life, no one likes the same things, if we did there wouldn't be like 200 different flavors of ice cream.
www.youtube.com/watch
For those who question if EVE is sandbox, CCP has recently released this, enjoy.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Don't forget the SIMS Online which was the ultimate "A Day in the Life" game. Very few folks want to pay $15 a month to live a second life online, which is really what a lot of these sandboxers want to do.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
EDIT: Nevermind, I'm going to take my own advice and ignore the trolls.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.