Originally posted by drycat Who wants to play in a post-apocolyptic era with swords, bows and arrows? I mean, I can see that to an extent, but come on, there are plenty of fantasy MMO's out there for that,.
Make swords, bows and arrows easily obtainable newbie weapons Guns should be somwhat more demanding to build and get the ressources for. That will give the crafter types somthing to achieve. In the long run, guns will of course become commonplace. But like others have said, that would just be the logical progress of the storyline.
I agree with you Chul, as that is exactly my point. Although Fallen Earth is not Fallout or Wastelands or anything of the such, it reminds me of those titles specifically and I think there is some good content and ideas available there for building a post-apocolyptic world. Not to say I want them to mimic Fallout or Fallout 2.
But anyway, I hope they don't make us suffer with bows, arrows and knives. That's all I ask hehe Though, I suppose that depends on what resources are going to be made readily available via merchants/starting weapons/ etc.. I would think it might be more realistic for them to offer the most basic equipment, supplies, etc.. on NPC merchants, with more potent and effective tools/equipment and such made available through player crafters. Or missions or forays into lost military bunkers.
--in reply to Rabiator--
I mean, if we were actually starting over from scratch, there wouldn't be any need for NPC's with missions that offer petroleum. The players would have to build a drill and refinery in order to obtain and refine oil into fuel! I would think it is more reasonable to think that caches of gasoline have been found, maybe at the ruins of an old trucking company, and seized by a settlement or gang, etc.. Noit to say that this has to be the way it is. But, I just don't think we are starting from scratch here.
And, most likely firearms would not be as scarce as we might otherwise think. All of the cities, that now lie in ruin, would have had an ammo store or 2 or 3 of them for that matter. Most likely, they are the first places to be scavenged in the wake of a holocaust. So, I would think firearms and munitions would not be as scarce as all of that, and definitely not items that we will have to relie upon players to make in the most basic forms. Most ammo/gun and even department stores today carry a large range of weapons. So, I would definitely think that weapons would be available.
Just because this is a post apocolyptic world, doesn't mean we are starting from the "invention of the wheel". But anyway.. can't wait to play it! hehe
i hope it stays as hard to get ahold of or at least takes a while to get the parts and build it.
would be very cool to have an outpost who all work together to build a vehicle and sending out recon patrols on it, or using it as a caravan for supplys.
I hope in terms of content its pretty 'hardcore' and not all 'on a plate'.
By hardcore i dont mean massive death penaltys and the like, i just mean, having to work for your meal/vehicle basically, so not everyone has everything, lots of variety is good so different people/groups work towards different things.
who knows what'll happen, thats whats so exciting i guess.
I was just thinking about how neat it would be if there were a free-form building system in FE.
For example, Half Life 2's Garry's Mod. Imagine building your vehicle in that, then driving it around in FE. How cool would that be!? And using the building system and the physics, it wouldnt be long before people would be building catapults that you could load bunches of grenades into...
Any other cool ideas for this type of thing? One thing's certain, it would make clan vs clan wars a lot more interesting.
I would hope for the realistic type engine for the game using vehicles with maybe a few vehicles allowing stunts to be performed. Liek motocycles doing jumps and flips, etc. But taking a turn in a 3000lb cargo van at 90mph and not flipping....loses the realism fast.
Of course, unless you can take that cargo van down an ally like in GTA and......nvm
[quote]Originally posted by Hardware-DCOf course, unless you can take that cargo van down an ally like in GTA and......nvm[/b][/quote]
Yup, thats about what I have in mind. The physics might make it seem like certain vehicles move faster or more agile than they should... But that just means the other vehicles move that much better too It all equals out.
Originally posted by ordeith Yeah, I do hope they can manage to keep the feeling that items (hitech) is very rare. perhaps put some kind of cap on items so there can only be like 1vehicle for every 10 players in the game, or something. I'd hate to see every other player cruising around with a dunebuggy with a roofmounted .50 machinegun. =( if I manage to find an old WW2 infantry rifle and a few bullets for it, I want to be extatic over it! With that said I'd love to see players think twice before using their rifles (and other Hightech-equipment) since ammunition/batteries/whatnot is rare, and perhaps use their lowtech-items in regular encounters and the "heavy artillery" when you encounter that "untra-tough mutated Crocodile" or something.
I agree that ammo should be scarce. I have always preferred the "make every shot count" approach, and if FPS gameplay is indeed twitch and melee is turn-based (which is the impression that I got from the worm video - I hope that there's an option for ALL gameplay to be non-twitch), that'd be good for high-pingers like me, since it'd equate to less gunfighting.
I hope that vehicles aren't a necessity to gameplay, but if I had one, I'd keep it somewhere safe and secure where no one else would find it. I also would prefer more realistic physics, as opposed to the GTA-style physics which I think would detract from the game's atmosphere. There are some other cool effects I'd like to see though. The option of mounting speakers on a vehicle and playing music would be nice.
----------------------------------- Go you must. No guest shall stay in one place for ever. Love will be lost if you sit too long at a friend's fire.
I would HATE to have ammo be limited, because that will make dex Monkies (melee) have an advantage to never needing ammo or to reload. instead, I would think the ability to have a crafter upgrade magazine sizes frim single stack to doubles, to drum style that will hold larger amounts of ammo at one time depending on the weapon.
Instead along your lines, I think the need to RELOAD is a possible factor. This will make the need to "aim and not spray and pray" more effective and yet not hurt the class to much.
Originally posted by Hardware-DC I would HATE to have ammo be limited, because that will make dex Monkies (melee) have an advantage to never needing ammo or to reload. instead, I would think the ability to have a crafter upgrade magazine sizes frim single stack to doubles, to drum style that will hold larger amounts of ammo at one time depending on the weapon. Instead along your lines, I think the need to RELOAD is a possible factor. This will make the need to "aim and not spray and pray" more effective and yet not hurt the class to much.
Well, don't forget that the majority of the terrain is going to be a vast, open wasteland, and so an alert player will have plenty of time to spot another player and shoot him/her if there's a need to. If you're in close quarters, I'd rather have it be melee, otherwise it becomes too much like a standard bunny-hop FPS and less realistic.
I have no objection to players modifying their weapons to make them more efficient. I just don't think that ammo should be lying around in abundance. Gasoline and food certainly won't be, so why ammunition? I'd rather have players raid caravans for things like that insead of just shooting anyone they see on the horizon (like me) because they have more of it than they can find a use for.
----------------------------------- Go you must. No guest shall stay in one place for ever. Love will be lost if you sit too long at a friend's fire.
Yes, but once again you will be fighting the balance monster with ranged weapons then. Either 1) you are able to snipe people from afar, allowing melee to be cut down or 2) you will "hurt" your target, they will run up on you and start beating you about the face and chest area with some blunt instrument.
One thing brought up a coupel times which is making me scared and I might have missed....but is the game going to be like SWG in the old days engine wise" or is the game more battlefield 2, So-Com type of shooter, bunnyhopping crap liek that. Your the second guy to make that kind of comment and after SWG went that direction with the pont and fire type engine, I am becoming fearful the tweakers out there playing consol games for 10yrs will move right into this game taking the RPG out of it and making it a zerg contest.
Way off topic with the ammo discussion. Please ask the questions in a new thread. Hate to play forum nazi but I really don't want this place to degrade like so many other forums have.
Hardware-DC I am becoming fearful the tweakers out there playing consol games for 10yrs will move right into this game taking the RPG out of it and making it a zerg contest.
I would be a lot more careful about making comments like that.
Because your discussion on ammo is interesting, but if people want to find it they'll have to check the "Vehicle physics?" thread. That makes zero sense. It would be best to start a thread on ammo so the vehicle thread can continue on its merry way.
That would be pretty cool, if it were implemented properly. There's so much we still don't know about the vehicle system that it's hard to comment on little details like if you're able to steal other people's cars. From the statement that vehicles will take 6+ months to acquire.... maybe not.
I dunno about the stealing of cars, mainly because I am hoping we can use them as storage and a more realistic "backpack", which to have stolen would make me want to shoot someone. Plus, the sponsoring of car-jacking might look bad on the game "violence rating" on the back of the box. LOL
The only mmo Ive tried that involved vehicles was swg and vehicles were packed away in some magical datapad when not in use. What will happen to your vehicle when not in use? Maybe some kind of uber camouflage to cover it? And from what it sounds like on the trailers, gas will be involved. How long does that last and can I drink it?
I was just mulling over how to (at least a little) realistically deal with logging off while you have a car (and in the process, got a big idea of how vehicles could work in general . How about:
Say you're starting to make a car. You first acquire a bunch of parts (engine parts, muffler, wheels, exhaust system, etc), going out and questing for them, and dragging them back to town. Once you have the proper parts, you combine them in whatever positioning and order you want, along with some scrap metal to make a chassis.
Once you build a car, you get a 'deed' kind of thing for it, maybe a blueprint or something. By combining this 'deed' with just some random scrap metal (readily available), some cash, and some skills, you can cheaply (relative to building it the first time) replicate your car as many times as you want.
However, there are problems. When you yourself are driving the car, you know it so well that you can keep it running indefinately. (as long as you have gas) But, when you leave the vehicle, give it to someone else, whatever, in a certain amount of time relative to your vehicle construction skill, it stops working and decays into a pile of scrap metal.
On logout, your car stays where it was. You could either; A) Just let it decay, who should be able to touch your cars but you! (I hope noone finds it...) Sell it to a nearby player C) Talk to an auctioneer, a type of merchant distributed generously throughout the wasteland. He will post the car, a timer displaying how long until it decays into unusability, and a price determined by you. Players across the wastes can buy your car from other auctioneers, but since they do not own the blueprint, they don't have the knowledge necessary to keep the vehicle from breaking down.
I've got a few other details about it that I've probably forgotten to mention, but that's the general idea. Comments, anyone?
I am a firm believer in getting rid of the fake backpack storage amounts and alllow vehicles or animals to pack for you. However, in response to the question at hand....I believe vehicles should be stored. Like in GTA or even SWG Ships, your "data pad" says: Hardware's Trans Am located at Wayfar". I would then have to travel to that city, find the garage I stored it in and drive off.
Only problem I see is the disconnection or quick log. I would hazzard a guess that the regions have major cities and if you logout some how, the vehicle will be moved to that citys garage, not unlike a police tow if you left your car in the roadway.
Yeah, you could pay into some kind of insurance policy that makes your car get moved to the nearest city or something. I prefer my system though, as it makes sure that a few people who find the first vehicles aren't going to dominate PvP. As soon as a few people get original cars, they'd be able to mass produce and 'rent' them out to people.
I dunno, I don't think there should be any way to easily make a car, even after it has been discovered. The only thing I dislike about transportation in games is when it because so commonplace everyone has it. For example, the speeder bikes and such in SWG... they are neat, and help a lot in getting from point A to B, but they aren't special or unique at all. Everyone has one. I really hope FE steers away from this and makes vehicles a fairly special asset.
But that's the thing, is that if you were to 'rent' a vehicle, it'd only last for about an hour tops before breaking down. And it would be exorbitantly expensive.
Originally posted by Atheraal Yeah, you could pay into some kind of insurance policy that makes your car get moved to the nearest city or something. I prefer my system though, as it makes sure that a few people who find the first vehicles aren't going to dominate PvP. As soon as a few people get original cars, they'd be able to mass produce and 'rent' them out to people.
I never really considered vehicles in terms of their involvement in PvP. This raises an interesting question - will players simply be driving around killing anyone they see with mounted machine guns ala Halo? This might be somewhat realistic, though certainly not fun for those on the receiving end.
----------------------------------- Go you must. No guest shall stay in one place for ever. Love will be lost if you sit too long at a friend's fire.
Hopefully the cost of fuel and bullets will be prohibitive of that kind of action. Plus, I plan on being one of the first people in this game to have a vehicle, and I'll be the guy that hunts down the guys who do that
haha yea i think that it shouldn't be worth it to run around greifing for no reason other than to greif but if you Really want that nasty gun that guy has he better have a good death grip or a good sprint.... hehehe
Comments
Make swords, bows and arrows easily obtainable newbie weapons
Guns should be somwhat more demanding to build and get the ressources for. That will give the crafter types somthing to achieve. In the long run, guns will of course become commonplace. But like others have said, that would just be the logical progress of the storyline.
I agree with you Chul, as that is exactly my point. Although Fallen Earth is not Fallout or Wastelands or anything of the such, it reminds me of those titles specifically and I think there is some good content and ideas available there for building a post-apocolyptic world. Not to say I want them to mimic Fallout or Fallout 2.
But anyway, I hope they don't make us suffer with bows, arrows and knives. That's all I ask hehe Though, I suppose that depends on what resources are going to be made readily available via merchants/starting weapons/ etc.. I would think it might be more realistic for them to offer the most basic equipment, supplies, etc.. on NPC merchants, with more potent and effective tools/equipment and such made available through player crafters. Or missions or forays into lost military bunkers.
--in reply to Rabiator--
I mean, if we were actually starting over from scratch, there wouldn't be any need for NPC's with missions that offer petroleum. The players would have to build a drill and refinery in order to obtain and refine oil into fuel! I would think it is more reasonable to think that caches of gasoline have been found, maybe at the ruins of an old trucking company, and seized by a settlement or gang, etc.. Noit to say that this has to be the way it is. But, I just don't think we are starting from scratch here.
And, most likely firearms would not be as scarce as we might otherwise think. All of the cities, that now lie in ruin, would have had an ammo store or 2 or 3 of them for that matter. Most likely, they are the first places to be scavenged in the wake of a holocaust. So, I would think firearms and munitions would not be as scarce as all of that, and definitely not items that we will have to relie upon players to make in the most basic forms. Most ammo/gun and even department stores today carry a large range of weapons. So, I would definitely think that weapons would be available.
Just because this is a post apocolyptic world, doesn't mean we are starting from the "invention of the wheel". But anyway.. can't wait to play it! hehe
i hope it stays as hard to get ahold of or at least takes a while to get the parts and build it.
would be very cool to have an outpost who all work together to build a vehicle and sending out recon patrols on it, or using it as a caravan for supplys.
I hope in terms of content its pretty 'hardcore' and not all 'on a plate'.
By hardcore i dont mean massive death penaltys and the like, i just mean, having to work for your meal/vehicle basically, so not everyone has everything, lots of variety is good so different people/groups work towards different things.
who knows what'll happen, thats whats so exciting i guess.
I was just thinking about how neat it would be if there were a free-form building system in FE.
For example, Half Life 2's Garry's Mod. Imagine building your vehicle in that, then driving it around in FE. How cool would that be!? And using the building system and the physics, it wouldnt be long before people would be building catapults that you could load bunches of grenades into...
Any other cool ideas for this type of thing? One thing's certain, it would make clan vs clan wars a lot more interesting.
___________________
I would hope for the realistic type engine for the game using vehicles with maybe a few vehicles allowing stunts to be performed. Liek motocycles doing jumps and flips, etc. But taking a turn in a 3000lb cargo van at 90mph and not flipping....loses the realism fast.
Of course, unless you can take that cargo van down an ally like in GTA and......nvm
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[quote]Originally posted by Hardware-DCOf course, unless you can take that cargo van down an ally like in GTA and......nvm[/b][/quote]
Yup, thats about what I have in mind. The physics might make it seem like certain vehicles move faster or more agile than they should... But that just means the other vehicles move that much better too It all equals out.
___________________
I agree that ammo should be scarce. I have always preferred the "make every shot count" approach, and if FPS gameplay is indeed twitch and melee is turn-based (which is the impression that I got from the worm video - I hope that there's an option for ALL gameplay to be non-twitch), that'd be good for high-pingers like me, since it'd equate to less gunfighting.
I hope that vehicles aren't a necessity to gameplay, but if I had one, I'd keep it somewhere safe and secure where no one else would find it. I also would prefer more realistic physics, as opposed to the GTA-style physics which I think would detract from the game's atmosphere. There are some other cool effects I'd like to see though. The option of mounting speakers on a vehicle and playing music would be nice.
-----------------------------------
Go you must.
No guest shall stay
in one place for ever.
Love will be lost
if you sit too long
at a friend's fire.
-- The Havamal
I would HATE to have ammo be limited, because that will make dex Monkies (melee) have an advantage to never needing ammo or to reload. instead, I would think the ability to have a crafter upgrade magazine sizes frim single stack to doubles, to drum style that will hold larger amounts of ammo at one time depending on the weapon.
Instead along your lines, I think the need to RELOAD is a possible factor. This will make the need to "aim and not spray and pray" more effective and yet not hurt the class to much.
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http://www.durmanhoth-clan.com/apocalypse Sci-Fi / Apoc Theme Forums
http://www.durmanhoth-clan.com/citadel DnD Style Theme forums (coming soon)
Well, don't forget that the majority of the terrain is going to be a vast, open wasteland, and so an alert player will have plenty of time to spot another player and shoot him/her if there's a need to. If you're in close quarters, I'd rather have it be melee, otherwise it becomes too much like a standard bunny-hop FPS and less realistic.
I have no objection to players modifying their weapons to make them more efficient. I just don't think that ammo should be lying around in abundance. Gasoline and food certainly won't be, so why ammunition? I'd rather have players raid caravans for things like that insead of just shooting anyone they see on the horizon (like me) because they have more of it than they can find a use for.
-----------------------------------
Go you must.
No guest shall stay
in one place for ever.
Love will be lost
if you sit too long
at a friend's fire.
-- The Havamal
Yes, but once again you will be fighting the balance monster with ranged weapons then. Either 1) you are able to snipe people from afar, allowing melee to be cut down or 2) you will "hurt" your target, they will run up on you and start beating you about the face and chest area with some blunt instrument.
One thing brought up a coupel times which is making me scared and I might have missed....but is the game going to be like SWG in the old days engine wise" or is the game more battlefield 2, So-Com type of shooter, bunnyhopping crap liek that. Your the second guy to make that kind of comment and after SWG went that direction with the pont and fire type engine, I am becoming fearful the tweakers out there playing consol games for 10yrs will move right into this game taking the RPG out of it and making it a zerg contest.
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http://www.durmanhoth-clan.com/apocalypse Sci-Fi / Apoc Theme Forums
http://www.durmanhoth-clan.com/citadel DnD Style Theme forums (coming soon)
Way off topic with the ammo discussion. Please ask the questions in a new thread. Hate to play forum nazi but I really don't want this place to degrade like so many other forums have.
I would be a lot more careful about making comments like that.
http://www.fallenearth.se - Your source for Fallen Earth information
1) How is anything "degrading" because something went off topic. That makes zero sense.
2) /cower
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Because your discussion on ammo is interesting, but if people want to find it they'll have to check the "Vehicle physics?" thread. That makes zero sense. It would be best to start a thread on ammo so the vehicle thread can continue on its merry way.
http://www.fallenearth.se - Your source for Fallen Earth information
I was just wondeing if Other players will beable to steal your ride from you? I think that would be kind of cool.
Not that I would wan't my Ride jacked from me...lol
That would be pretty cool, if it were implemented properly. There's so much we still don't know about the vehicle system that it's hard to comment on little details like if you're able to steal other people's cars. From the statement that vehicles will take 6+ months to acquire.... maybe not.
___________________
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The only mmo Ive tried that involved vehicles was swg and vehicles were packed away in some magical datapad when not in use. What will happen to your vehicle when not in use? Maybe some kind of uber camouflage to cover it? And from what it sounds like on the trailers, gas will be involved. How long does that last and can I drink it?
Lead with your face and role with the punches.
I was just mulling over how to (at least a little) realistically deal with logging off while you have a car (and in the process, got a big idea of how vehicles could work in general . How about:
Say you're starting to make a car. You first acquire a bunch of parts (engine parts, muffler, wheels, exhaust system, etc), going out and questing for them, and dragging them back to town. Once you have the proper parts, you combine them in whatever positioning and order you want, along with some scrap metal to make a chassis.
Once you build a car, you get a 'deed' kind of thing for it, maybe a blueprint or something. By combining this 'deed' with just some random scrap metal (readily available), some cash, and some skills, you can cheaply (relative to building it the first time) replicate your car as many times as you want.
However, there are problems. When you yourself are driving the car, you know it so well that you can keep it running indefinately. (as long as you have gas) But, when you leave the vehicle, give it to someone else, whatever, in a certain amount of time relative to your vehicle construction skill, it stops working and decays into a pile of scrap metal.
On logout, your car stays where it was. You could either;
A) Just let it decay, who should be able to touch your cars but you! (I hope noone finds it...)
Sell it to a nearby player
C) Talk to an auctioneer, a type of merchant distributed generously throughout the wasteland. He will post the car, a timer displaying how long until it decays into unusability, and a price determined by you. Players across the wastes can buy your car from other auctioneers, but since they do not own the blueprint, they don't have the knowledge necessary to keep the vehicle from breaking down.
I've got a few other details about it that I've probably forgotten to mention, but that's the general idea. Comments, anyone?
___________________
I am a firm believer in getting rid of the fake backpack storage amounts and alllow vehicles or animals to pack for you. However, in response to the question at hand....I believe vehicles should be stored. Like in GTA or even SWG Ships, your "data pad" says: Hardware's Trans Am located at Wayfar". I would then have to travel to that city, find the garage I stored it in and drive off.
Only problem I see is the disconnection or quick log. I would hazzard a guess that the regions have major cities and if you logout some how, the vehicle will be moved to that citys garage, not unlike a police tow if you left your car in the roadway.
Just an opinion.
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Yeah, you could pay into some kind of insurance policy that makes your car get moved to the nearest city or something. I prefer my system though, as it makes sure that a few people who find the first vehicles aren't going to dominate PvP. As soon as a few people get original cars, they'd be able to mass produce and 'rent' them out to people.
___________________
I dunno, I don't think there should be any way to easily make a car, even after it has been discovered. The only thing I dislike about transportation in games is when it because so commonplace everyone has it. For example, the speeder bikes and such in SWG... they are neat, and help a lot in getting from point A to B, but they aren't special or unique at all. Everyone has one. I really hope FE steers away from this and makes vehicles a fairly special asset.
http://www.fallenearth.se - Your source for Fallen Earth information
But that's the thing, is that if you were to 'rent' a vehicle, it'd only last for about an hour tops before breaking down. And it would be exorbitantly expensive.
___________________
I never really considered vehicles in terms of their involvement in PvP. This raises an interesting question - will players simply be driving around killing anyone they see with mounted machine guns ala Halo? This might be somewhat realistic, though certainly not fun for those on the receiving end.
-----------------------------------
Go you must.
No guest shall stay
in one place for ever.
Love will be lost
if you sit too long
at a friend's fire.
-- The Havamal
Hopefully the cost of fuel and bullets will be prohibitive of that kind of action. Plus, I plan on being one of the first people in this game to have a vehicle, and I'll be the guy that hunts down the guys who do that
___________________
Hmm bullets expensive.....
*Buys BFK (Big F***ing Knife)*
haha yea i think that it shouldn't be worth it to run around greifing for no reason other than to greif but if you Really want that nasty gun that guy has he better have a good death grip or a good sprint.... hehehe