CNN's Don Lemon speaks with several Cambridge police officers who pledge their support for Sgt. Crowley.
Now who owes whom an apology? I think Obama and Gates should be kissing up to this fine officer, his family, and his force for putting them all through a bunch of unwarranted crap! Any bets on whether or not they'll step off of their self righteous pedestals to fulfill that decent obligation? I'm betting no.
Give me a break, that idiot Crowley could have walked away after he realized that he was in the Dr.'s house. Then none of this would have heppened. Sounds like just another dickhead white cop to me.
The black officer that was with him said he did not act wrong.
I guess the black officers are dickheaded white cops too? How'd they pull that off?
Crowley was CO, and cops never question their CO. Either the black cop was an Uncle Tom type, or he has no spine and didn't want to diffuse the situation. I will guess it was the latter of the two.
What Crowley did is undefendable. He invaded the privacy of someone's home, and publicly humiliated and embarassed a respected scholar. He dug in his heels out of stubbornness, and this has absolutely nothing to do with serving and protecting.
I hope the Professor sues the hell out of Cambridge police department. Maybe having to fork over millions in damages will force them to cut jobs and scale back, and possibly learn a lesson. There are obviously too many police in Cambridge as it is if Crowley even wasted his time with this arrest.
CNN's Don Lemon speaks with several Cambridge police officers who pledge their support for Sgt. Crowley.
Now who owes whom an apology? I think Obama and Gates should be kissing up to this fine officer, his family, and his force for putting them all through a bunch of unwarranted crap! Any bets on whether or not they'll step off of their self righteous pedestals to fulfill that decent obligation? I'm betting no.
Give me a break, that idiot Crowley could have walked away after he realized that he was in the Dr.'s house. Then none of this would have heppened. Sounds like just another dickhead white cop to me.
The black officer that was with him said he did not act wrong.
I guess the black officers are dickheaded white cops too? How'd they pull that off?
Crowley was CO, and cops never question their CO. Either the black cop was an Uncle Tom type, or he has no spine and didn't want to diffuse the situation. I will guess it was the latter of the two.
Or three, You wern't there and he did nothing the black cop thought was wrong?
I love how fast liberals start calling blacks who dont play in lockstep with their view points are uncle toms, or are spineless.
Honestly can anyone tell me why blacks support these hypocrates?
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. Samuel Adams
The professor made it into a racial event, when in fact is was mostly along the lines of "I am a l33t perfesser at Haaavad with tons of uber political connections and you are underpaid scum in a youneeform."
CNN's Don Lemon speaks with several Cambridge police officers who pledge their support for Sgt. Crowley.
Now who owes whom an apology? I think Obama and Gates should be kissing up to this fine officer, his family, and his force for putting them all through a bunch of unwarranted crap! Any bets on whether or not they'll step off of their self righteous pedestals to fulfill that decent obligation? I'm betting no.
Give me a break, that idiot Crowley could have walked away after he realized that he was in the Dr.'s house. Then none of this would have heppened. Sounds like just another dickhead white cop to me.
The black officer that was with him said he did not act wrong.
I guess the black officers are dickheaded white cops too? How'd they pull that off?
Crowley was CO, and cops never question their CO. Either the black cop was an Uncle Tom type, or he has no spine and didn't want to diffuse the situation. I will guess it was the latter of the two.
What Crowley did is undefendable. He invaded the privacy of someone's home, and publicly humiliated and embarassed a respected scholar. He dug in his heels out of stubbornness, and this has absolutely nothing to do with serving and protecting.
I hope the Professor sues the hell out of Cambridge police department. Maybe having to fork over millions in damages will force them to cut jobs and scale back, and possibly learn a lesson. There are obviously too many police in Cambridge as it is if Crowley even wasted his time with this arrest.
So, if a black officer takes up for a white officer then he is immediately lying and put into the Uncle Tom category. If that is not a skewed perspective on the world then I don't know what is.
I hope he sues the police department too. So he can look like a fool when all the evidence leads to Gates losing the case. But then I'm sure you'll say it was because of our prejudice judicial system. Anything to be the entitled victim.
CNN's Don Lemon speaks with several Cambridge police officers who pledge their support for Sgt. Crowley.
Now who owes whom an apology? I think Obama and Gates should be kissing up to this fine officer, his family, and his force for putting them all through a bunch of unwarranted crap! Any bets on whether or not they'll step off of their self righteous pedestals to fulfill that decent obligation? I'm betting no.
Give me a break, that idiot Crowley could have walked away after he realized that he was in the Dr.'s house. Then none of this would have heppened. Sounds like just another dickhead white cop to me.
The black officer that was with him said he did not act wrong.
I guess the black officers are dickheaded white cops too? How'd they pull that off?
Crowley was CO, and cops never question their CO. Either the black cop was an Uncle Tom type, or he has no spine and didn't want to diffuse the situation. I will guess it was the latter of the two.
Or three, You wern't there and he did nothing the black cop thought was wrong?
I love how fast liberals start calling blacks who dont play in lockstep with their view points are uncle toms, or are spineless.
Honestly can anyone tell me why blacks support these hypocrates?
Most of them actually don't.
I have a lot of white friends and buddies who think this whole "uncle tom" and "I'm a victim" stuff is b.s. The main difference I've noticed between my black friends and the blacks who scream this "uncle tom" crap is that my black friends are happy and successful in life.
Most of them actually don't. I have a lot of white friends and buddies who think this whole "uncle tom" and "I'm a victim" stuff is b.s.
The main difference I've noticed between my black friends and the blacks who scream this "uncle tom" crap is that my black friends are happy and successful in life.
One thing I've noticed is you really don't have a clue how cops work in real life, and must have been watching too much "Cops" on television or something.
Here's how things really work a lot of times (except the cameras usually don't catch this)
Police seen plotting to blame car accident on woman they hit
A cop's dashboard camera is supposed to catch criminals in the act. For four Hollywood cops, the dash cam may have foiled their plans to frame a motorist.
The four police officers -- three of them longtime veterans of the force -- were caught on one of the cop's dash cameras plotting to place the blame for a February traffic accident on a woman one of them had hit with their patrol car. The disturbing video shows the woman, Alexandra Torrensvilas, handcuffed in the back of the squad car as the officers get their stories straight on what they are going to say happened.
Officer Joel Francisco, 36, an 11-year veteran, crashed into the back of Torrensvilas' vehicle at a light on February 17 at midnight. The cop radioed to other officers who converged on the scene and hatched a way to bail Francisco out.
Officer Dewey Pressley, 42, arrives and questions Torrensvilas, who tells him that she has been drinking. The 21-year veteran officer seizes the opportunity and arrests her for DUI. But the plot thickens from there.
The cops begin to brainstorm believable excuses for the accident.
"As far as I'm concerned. I'm going to put words in his mouth. She went to accelerate and a cat jumped out of the window at which point he thought it could have been a pedestrian, which distracted him," Pressley tells Sgt. Andrew Diaz, another veteran of the force. "I mean what's the chances of hitting a f---in drunk when a cat jumps out of the window?"
Still, the cops run with the half-baked idea and rush to get Torrensvilas to do a Breathalyzer test so they can officially say she was drunk.
"I nailed her on the video. I already hung her on video. She said she has been doing a beer party," Pressley says. "She's gonna blow."
Then, another cop debates with Pressley on who is going to write up the fabricated report to clear their police comrade.
"I know how I'm going to word this with the cat so we can get him off the hook. I'll write the narrative," Pressley says. "We're going to bend this a little bit."
Civilian Community Service Officer Karim Thomas joins the three senior officers and the four cops go so far as to change the angle of pictures of the accident to make it look like Torrensvilas swerved in front of the cop car and caused the accident, not Francisco.
Throughout the tape, the cops acknowledged what they are doing is illegal, but when you are the law, there is nothing wrong with bending it for a fellow cop, one says.
"I don't lie and make things up ever because it's wrong, but if I need to bend it a little bit to protect a cop, I'll do it," Pressley tells Francisco after reassuring him no one will ever find out. "She's freaking hammered anyway."
The cops even do a final rehearsal before Villa is taken to the city lock up.
"We'll take care of it," one officer says. The others reply: "We're good."
The police officers are currently on administrative leave pending a state attorney's office investigation. Torrensvilas, who was charged with four counts of DUI and cited for improper lane change, is still fighting the charges in court.
In case you lost count, that's four cops pinning lies on a woman. If this video doesn't exist she's S.O.L. in court. I would wonder what video of the Gates incident would show as well if they had filmed it.
Now if you read back in this thread, I already told you this is EXACTLY how things work and I know from experience working in the field. Of course you'd say I was making it up, but here you have video proof.
This is an apparently Hispanic woman in Florida they are doing this to with NO hesitation, so you can imagine how cops around Boston/Cambridge think when it comes to minorities. And surprise... two officers (one a sergeant) going right along with this plot are Hispanic as well as potentially one who is Black. (Sgt. Diaz, Franscisco and "Karim Thomas") So much for minority cops always acting "objectively" when cops are in trouble and being fully believable.
All your "black friends" you say you have must be relatives of Clarence Thomas cause they sure sound like they have their heads buried and have not lived reality.
NOTE: Coincidentally for anyone reading this, NEVER, EVER talk to the police in a situation like this talking about the incident.
Shut up, and wait to get a lawyer. You think you are cooperating, but you don't have to say anything at all. Let the cops do all the talking (and they will). If you say something, it will get twisted. You give you name, address or any of that kind of info but never discuss the incident as remarks later will come back to haunt you, however 'nice' you are trying to be.
If the cops ask you about sports or the situation in Iraq you can chat all night, but if you discuss anything involving what they are later probably going to charge you with you are just digging your own grave. The recent news on this is that this woman had all charges dismissed for obvious reasons.
Someone watching this video and still saying there's no bias against minorities by police just isn't grounded in reality.
Or three, You wern't there and he did nothing the black cop thought was wrong? I love how fast liberals start calling blacks who dont play in lockstep with their view points are uncle toms, or are spineless. Honestly can anyone tell me why blacks support these hypocrates?
It would comfort you if I was a liberal, but I assure you, I am not. Registered Independent for over a decade now.
Cops have never done shit for me, except cause me trouble. I have ZERO sympathy for cops, and I also think we live in a police state. Combine the over-policing with racial tensions, and this is what you get. Race is a big factor, but ultimately the problem is with our model of law enforcement.
Cops are some of the most uneducated people I have ever met, and it is scary that we let these high school educated people carry around guns and make decisions that affect people's lives. If Crowley had an ounce of common sense or intelligence, he would have walked away from this. Its Dr. Gates house, he can say whatever the fuck he wants to in it.
Forget race for a second. Do you people really think it is right for a cop to call you out of your own house when you have done nothing wrong? It is common knowledge that this dickhead cop knew this was Gate's house. Blindly defending an intrusion of piracy like this is spineless. Where is V when you need him?
I have a lot of white friends and buddies who think this whole "uncle tom" and "I'm a victim" stuff is b.s. The main difference I've noticed between my black friends and the blacks who scream this "uncle tom" crap is that my black friends are happy and successful in life.
One thing I've noticed is you really don't have a clue how cops work in real life, and must have been watching too much "Cops" on television or something.
Here's how things really work a lot of times (except the cameras usually don't catch this)
Police seen plotting to blame car accident on woman they hit
One thing I've noticed about all the people who want to judge folks in law enforcement on here, including you.
I would bet none of you guys have ever been in any kind of organization that has to deal with their life being threatened every day. These people are not out there pulling cats down from trees and returning lost puppies. They have to constantly assume that the person they are about to confront is dangerous. If they let down their guard then there is a good chance that can be perceived as weakness and they can be killed.
I happen to have a lot of buddies who I was in Iraq with who are now in law enforcement. They are good people. I hear their stories about what kind of shit they have to put up with on the streets. I hear about the double standard that they have to hear from folks like you. And I hear about how even though you run your mouth about them all the time they are still there to put their life on the line if it meant saving yours.
I know exactly what it's like not knowing what situation you are walking up on. I know completely how you have to approach the situation if your intent is survive and protect others around you. And I hope that you people who run your mouths never have to live through a situation like that.
It's like I said before, you can pull these individual cases out by searching the Internets for those bad policeman stories. But for everyone of those that you post I can easily find thousands where the police did some good. You want to judge a large group of people by just a few bad ones in there then go right ahead, but just be ready for that same judgment to come your way. And when it does I expect you to keep your mouth shut. Because you need to follow the same logical path your following with the police officers.
Or three, You wern't there and he did nothing the black cop thought was wrong? I love how fast liberals start calling blacks who dont play in lockstep with their view points are uncle toms, or are spineless. Honestly can anyone tell me why blacks support these hypocrates?
It would comfort you if I was a liberal, but I assure you, I am not. Registered Independent for over a decade now.
Cops have never done shit for me, except cause me trouble. I have ZERO sympathy for cops, and I also think we live in a police state. Combine the over-policing with racial tensions, and this is what you get. Race is a big factor, but ultimately the problem is with our model of law enforcement.
Cops are some of the most uneducated people I have ever met, and it is scary that we let these high school educated people carry around guns and make decisions that affect people's lives. If Crowley had an ounce of common sense or intelligence, he would have walked away from this. Its Dr. Gates house, he can say whatever the fuck he wants to in it.
Forget race for a second. Do you people really think it is right for a cop to call you out of your own house when you have done nothing wrong? It is common knowledge that this dickhead cop knew this was Gate's house. Blindly defending an intrusion of piracy like this is spineless. Where is V when you need him?
I'm high school educated. WTF of it?
I joined the military out of high school and learned demolitions. That's what I'm working in now in the civilian world. I also received a lot of training in the military on civil enforcement.
Where do you think a lot cops come from? They're ex-military.
Sorry we don't meet your "educated" standards. Perhaps I should work on becoming an elitist intellectual like this Gates guy???
One thing I've noticed about all the people who want to judge folks in law enforcement on here, including you. I would bet none of you guys have ever been in any kind of organization that has to deal with their life being threatened every day. These people are not out there pulling cats down from trees and returning lost puppies. They have to constantly assume that the person they are about to confront is dangerous. If they let down their guard then there is a good chance that can be perceived as weakness and they can be killed. I happen to have a lot of buddies who I was in Iraq with who are now in law enforcement. They are good people. I hear their stories about what kind of shit they have to put up with on the streets. I hear about the double standard that they have to hear from folks like you. And I hear about how even though you run your mouth about them all the time they are still there to put their life on the line if it meant saving yours. I know exactly what it's like not knowing what situation you are walking up on. I know completely how you have to approach the situation if your intent is survive and protect others around you. And I hope that you people who run your mouths never have to live through a situation like that. It's like I said before, you can pull these individual cases out by searching the Internets for those bad policeman stories. But for everyone of those that you post I can easily find thousands where the police did some good. You want to judge a large group of people by just a few bad ones in there then go right ahead, but just be ready for that same judgment to come your way. And when it does I expect you to keep your mouth shut. Because you need to follow the same logical path your following with the police officers.
Individual cases? 1 case is not 10 cases, but 10 single cases are. How many "individual single cases" would it take for you to understand this happens more than you think? 100 single cases? 1,000 single cases?
As said in that article, that was certainly a well balanced contingent of cops; from what I gather two Hispanics, 1 Black and 1 White. They ALL decided to put reports together and lie. Now you say that's one incident; I say that's FOUR cops who have multiple arrests to make yearly. How many other times do you think based on what they said in that video, that they'd be willing to "back up another cop" when it comes down to lying, especially in more serious cases? That was just a traffic fender-bender.
You are supposed to be professional no matter what kind of situation you walk in on. Those cops there sure knew when they got called there. They knew when they discussed it and they knew when they submitted their false reports which is a crime.
Crowley didn't sound professional either, no matter how "unprofessional" Gates was, he was in his own home and he wasn't working so he doesn't have to be professional. Crowley was working and he should have acted like he was getting a paycheck from taxpayers instead of acting like he was a gang member and demanding "props" or like he was off-duty. I don't believe a crippled senior citizen who walks with a cane was a threat for a young, in-shape patrol officer to have to arrest for "disorderly conduct" in his own house. That's weak and it sounds like he just got mad at what he said, not what he did. He didn't charge him with assault or anything just "disorderly conduct"; how is one disorderly in their own home?
The Gates situation, the Florida one and others have nothing to do with danger many times. The cop above hit the woman's car, lol. So your "danger zone" argument is really not even an issue here, yet four cops set her up over pettiness. Of course its not ALL cops that do this, but the way you describe it the number seems like once in a lifetime when its way more than that for sure.
Here's the bottom line; in most departments in the country police officers are paid VERY WELL. They have excellent health and life insurance benefits and they get plenty of vacation, personal and sick time. This is not 1965 and they DESERVE it. I begrudge no police officer the salary they make but I expect professionalism for that; not John Wayne B.S.
Most cops make more on average than the neighbors they live around. When they are hired they are given a MMPI that tests their mental aptitude. If they fail they are washed out. If they pass they are hired. I don't want to hear any more about the "you don't know what it's like" nonsense because they can resign at any time they wish; this isn't the military and they aren't obligated to reach retirement if its too stressful. They'd have a good reference for other jobs to interview for.
Or three, You wern't there and he did nothing the black cop thought was wrong? I love how fast liberals start calling blacks who dont play in lockstep with their view points are uncle toms, or are spineless. Honestly can anyone tell me why blacks support these hypocrates?
It would comfort you if I was a liberal, but I assure you, I am not. Registered Independent for over a decade now.
Cops have never done shit for me, except cause me trouble. I have ZERO sympathy for cops, and I also think we live in a police state. Combine the over-policing with racial tensions, and this is what you get. Race is a big factor, but ultimately the problem is with our model of law enforcement.
Cops are some of the most uneducated people I have ever met, and it is scary that we let these high school educated people carry around guns and make decisions that affect people's lives. If Crowley had an ounce of common sense or intelligence, he would have walked away from this. Its Dr. Gates house, he can say whatever the fuck he wants to in it.
Forget race for a second. Do you people really think it is right for a cop to call you out of your own house when you have done nothing wrong? It is common knowledge that this dickhead cop knew this was Gate's house. Blindly defending an intrusion of piracy like this is spineless. Where is V when you need him?
I'm high school educated. WTF of it?
I joined the military out of high school and learned demolitions. That's what I'm working in now in the civilian world. I also received a lot of training in the military on civil enforcement.
Where do you think a lot cops come from? They're ex-military.
Sorry we don't meet your "educated" standards. Perhaps I should work on becoming an elitist intellectual like this Gates guy???
First Dis_Order. Claiming your "Independant" is as silly as Pop Claiming that.
And I agree With Gnome The Number of Elitists on this Site are Staggering.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. Samuel Adams
It's like I said before, you can pull these individual cases out by searching the Internets for those bad policeman stories. But for everyone of those that you post I can easily find thousands where the police did some good. You want to judge a large group of people by just a few bad ones in there then go right ahead, but just be ready for that same judgment to come your way. And when it does I expect you to keep your mouth shut. Because you need to follow the same logical path your following with the police officers.
Look, I'm on Crowley's side all the way up to the point where he arrested Gates for disturbing the peace. I think Crowley arrived on the scene with suspicion of breaking and entering, worked to assess possible dangers, all while being berated by a man who was quite unhappy about the situation and thought race played a role. However, when it was official that no crime had taken place, and the situation was basically over and each could go their separate ways, he arrested Gates for disturbing the peace. That, in my opinion, was a completely unnecessary display of power, and is the only reason this became a national incident.
I don't judge other law enforcement personnel based on this incident. I've had several incidents of my own, none race related, that were merely displays of power by law enforcement. I've also had some where I was acting inappropriately yet law enforcement kept their cool and diffused the situation. This case would have worked out much better if Crowley had said "have a good evening" and left Gates in his home.
This story has spiraled out of control and with lies and embellishment has become something horrible and obscene.
Sounds like a simple incident that would of been resolved with some understanding. Let me be very clear, I don't support surrendering our rights to the police upon their request, infact, if you think that you should you may as well not have any rights at all, but in this case, I think the cop was doing his duty and that duty was made more complex by the suspect's overreacting. On the other hand, arresting Gates for his poor conduct was not in accordance with the law.
Both were wrong and Gates should be very grateful that this officer was less inclined to use a taser than some of his comrades.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
Or three, You wern't there and he did nothing the black cop thought was wrong? I love how fast liberals start calling blacks who dont play in lockstep with their view points are uncle toms, or are spineless. Honestly can anyone tell me why blacks support these hypocrates?
It would comfort you if I was a liberal, but I assure you, I am not. Registered Independent for over a decade now.
Cops have never done shit for me, except cause me trouble. I have ZERO sympathy for cops, and I also think we live in a police state. Combine the over-policing with racial tensions, and this is what you get. Race is a big factor, but ultimately the problem is with our model of law enforcement.
Cops are some of the most uneducated people I have ever met, and it is scary that we let these high school educated people carry around guns and make decisions that affect people's lives. If Crowley had an ounce of common sense or intelligence, he would have walked away from this. Its Dr. Gates house, he can say whatever the fuck he wants to in it.
Forget race for a second. Do you people really think it is right for a cop to call you out of your own house when you have done nothing wrong? It is common knowledge that this dickhead cop knew this was Gate's house. Blindly defending an intrusion of piracy like this is spineless. Where is V when you need him?
I'm high school educated. WTF of it?
I joined the military out of high school and learned demolitions. That's what I'm working in now in the civilian world. I also received a lot of training in the military on civil enforcement.
Where do you think a lot cops come from? They're ex-military.
Sorry we don't meet your "educated" standards. Perhaps I should work on becoming an elitist intellectual like this Gates guy???
First Dis_Order. Claiming your "Independant" is as silly as Pop Claiming that.
And I agree With Gnome The Number of Elitists on this Site are Staggering.
Yeah, they are independents like Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Democrats are to the RIGHT of them.
Either way I gotta say, my dear brother in LIbertarianism, we're gonna have to agree to disagree here. Looking at the case and knowing the fourth amendment, they made a bad arrest with no real grounds. You are free to be drunk and disorderly in your own home. You are free to mouth off to a cop who is intruding in your own home without a warrant or probable cause. At the time the arrest was made, Crowley KNEW who the man was, knew he was in his own home, and arrested him because he was being disrespectful to the Law. Sorry, I can't accept that.
Yeah, they are independents like Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Democrats are to the RIGHT of them. Either way I gotta say, my dear brother in LIbertarianism, we're gonna have to agree to disagree here. Looking at the case and knowing the fourth amendment, they made a bad arrest with no real grounds. You are free to be drunk and disorderly in your own home. You are free to mouth off to a cop who is intruding in your own home without a warrant or probable cause. At the time the arrest was made, Crowley KNEW who the man was, knew he was in his own home, and arrested him because he was being disrespectful to the Law. Sorry, I can't accept that.
I think you know me a little better than that Fisher. I have always been a fiscal conservative, but an VERY liberal when it comes to social issues and believe that government has no right to interfere with my personal life. If Ron Paul didn't have so many cockamamie ideas, I could see myself supporting him.
But enough about my "elitist" self. Good post. I have yet to hear Gnome or anyone else defend the cop's invasion of privacy. Is that right?
And Gnome, there is nothing wrong with being high school educated (although you write rather well, and should probably consider going back to school for further yourself, you seem more intelligent). I just happen to believe that high school education is not adequate enough to become a cop. There are too many instances where a cop has to use judgement (as this case clearly shows), and I would rather have someone educated making those calls.
Lets also not forget that most police do not even live in the communities they cover. There is no personal relationship with law enforcement nowadays, and they really are out to get you.
I just happen to believe that high school education is not adequate enough to become a cop. There are too many instances where a cop has to use judgement (as this case clearly shows), and I would rather have someone educated making those calls. Lets also not forget that most police do not even live in the communities they cover. There is no personal relationship with law enforcement nowadays, and they really are out to get you.
I agree with this to a point.
I don't think you necessarily want "smarter" cops with degrees as much as you want "dedicated" cops who will uphold the law.
From what I've seen over the years, smarter cops are usually more trouble. They think which in a lot of cases is bad. They are more easily manipulated by perpetrators/criminals because they usually have a lot of "book smarts" but not a lot of street smarts.
A lot of highly educated cops also don't like to patrol any longer than they have to. Most college educated officers tend to want to climb the ladder much faster than the high school cop. They see that having all this education is worthless on a day to day level when you are dealing with people who speak plainly and coarsely. So they apply to Internal Affairs, Training Divisions, SWAT, supervisory positions... anything that can get them out of "the shit". Chances are if you see a cop on any police force with a degree, he's long been planning his escape from dealing with that actual policework and wants to make write policy and standard operating procedures. More educated cops are not the answer.
Educated cops also tend to view their morality in different ways than lower educated ones. Some simply think risking their life is not worth it, I mean.. they have degrees so why are they getting shanked by a wino with mental problems? Higher educated cops also tend to get extremely bored with the day/day policework because they aren't using their education for the most part at work.
I think what departments need are cops who are educated enough to read/write reports and follow policy because they basically are footsoldiers. You don't want them THINKING for the most part but following policy. A thinking cop will see a policy that's wrong, won't follow it and then the department gets sued. Cops should never be making "judgement calls", they should read and follow the SOPs that were derived and written from state and federal laws. Most problems happen when cops "think" outside the box and deviate from protocol, like Crowley did here to some extent. After seeing no crime, he should have left; not stuck around and argued with Gates.
Something I saw on O'Reilly that I think is so relevant here:
But Colmes actually defended the double standard under which white men can be freely criticized. "There has always been a white power structure. There has never been a Hispanic on the court and out of 111 justices, only four have not been white men. When you are a member of a group that has not had power, there is a different paradigm." The Factor accused many in the media of manifest prejudice: "There is a strategy on the part of the left-wing media to say that white men have screwed up America and we need to throw them out."
I think the point is missed. If you can control one group of people under the guise of "equalizing all" then control will eventually be obtained over all groups.
(This country actually has equal opportunity)
Our furthering progressing disease from our Overlord: Oppression itself.
Not really a surprise though since the early symptons of this disease were best used by a oppressive Communist government itself. I'm not surprised to see the East's symptons continue rearing on the West.
Yeah, they are independents like Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Democrats are to the RIGHT of them. Either way I gotta say, my dear brother in LIbertarianism, we're gonna have to agree to disagree here. Looking at the case and knowing the fourth amendment, they made a bad arrest with no real grounds. You are free to be drunk and disorderly in your own home. You are free to mouth off to a cop who is intruding in your own home without a warrant or probable cause. At the time the arrest was made, Crowley KNEW who the man was, knew he was in his own home, and arrested him because he was being disrespectful to the Law. Sorry, I can't accept that.
I think you know me a little better than that Fisher. I have always been a fiscal conservative, but an VERY liberal when it comes to social issues and believe that government has no right to interfere with my personal life. If Ron Paul didn't have so many cockamamie ideas, I could see myself supporting him.
But enough about my "elitist" self. Good post. I have yet to hear Gnome or anyone else defend the cop's invasion of privacy. Is that right?
And Gnome, there is nothing wrong with being high school educated (although you write rather well, and should probably consider going back to school for further yourself, you seem more intelligent). I just happen to believe that high school education is not adequate enough to become a cop. There are too many instances where a cop has to use judgement (as this case clearly shows), and I would rather have someone educated making those calls.
Lets also not forget that most police do not even live in the communities they cover. There is no personal relationship with law enforcement nowadays, and they really are out to get you.
Sorry you can NOT be a fiscal conservative and have voted for Obama. It just can't be done. He ran pretty much telling everyone he would be the biggest government spender in history. McCain was the fiscal conservative AND a social liberal last time around. But you chose to call the candidate supposedly closer to your view names, and went for Mister Spread the Wealth Around.
I have not seen a mea culpa from you for supporting this mess; until you do, I doubt your fiscal conservatism.
Plus, yeah you do not need even a high school education to know the law and the constitution -- you can learn that anywhere. Had those two things been known, this never would have happened.
I did not learn about the law and the constitution in school -- they don't teach people that in government schools. Just not gonna happen; since the federalization of education blatantly violates the 10th amendment, if they taught kids these things, the whole socialist empire known as the United States would fall, and we'd be a free nation. Heaven forbid such a thing.
Comments
Give me a break, that idiot Crowley could have walked away after he realized that he was in the Dr.'s house. Then none of this would have heppened. Sounds like just another dickhead white cop to me.
The black officer that was with him said he did not act wrong.
I guess the black officers are dickheaded white cops too? How'd they pull that off?
Crowley was CO, and cops never question their CO. Either the black cop was an Uncle Tom type, or he has no spine and didn't want to diffuse the situation. I will guess it was the latter of the two.
What Crowley did is undefendable. He invaded the privacy of someone's home, and publicly humiliated and embarassed a respected scholar. He dug in his heels out of stubbornness, and this has absolutely nothing to do with serving and protecting.
I hope the Professor sues the hell out of Cambridge police department. Maybe having to fork over millions in damages will force them to cut jobs and scale back, and possibly learn a lesson. There are obviously too many police in Cambridge as it is if Crowley even wasted his time with this arrest.
Give me a break, that idiot Crowley could have walked away after he realized that he was in the Dr.'s house. Then none of this would have heppened. Sounds like just another dickhead white cop to me.
The black officer that was with him said he did not act wrong.
I guess the black officers are dickheaded white cops too? How'd they pull that off?
Crowley was CO, and cops never question their CO. Either the black cop was an Uncle Tom type, or he has no spine and didn't want to diffuse the situation. I will guess it was the latter of the two.
Or three, You wern't there and he did nothing the black cop thought was wrong?
I love how fast liberals start calling blacks who dont play in lockstep with their view points are uncle toms, or are spineless.
Honestly can anyone tell me why blacks support these hypocrates?
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
The professor made it into a racial event, when in fact is was mostly along the lines of "I am a l33t perfesser at Haaavad with tons of uber political connections and you are underpaid scum in a youneeform."
Give me a break, that idiot Crowley could have walked away after he realized that he was in the Dr.'s house. Then none of this would have heppened. Sounds like just another dickhead white cop to me.
The black officer that was with him said he did not act wrong.
I guess the black officers are dickheaded white cops too? How'd they pull that off?
Crowley was CO, and cops never question their CO. Either the black cop was an Uncle Tom type, or he has no spine and didn't want to diffuse the situation. I will guess it was the latter of the two.
What Crowley did is undefendable. He invaded the privacy of someone's home, and publicly humiliated and embarassed a respected scholar. He dug in his heels out of stubbornness, and this has absolutely nothing to do with serving and protecting.
I hope the Professor sues the hell out of Cambridge police department. Maybe having to fork over millions in damages will force them to cut jobs and scale back, and possibly learn a lesson. There are obviously too many police in Cambridge as it is if Crowley even wasted his time with this arrest.
So, if a black officer takes up for a white officer then he is immediately lying and put into the Uncle Tom category. If that is not a skewed perspective on the world then I don't know what is.
I hope he sues the police department too. So he can look like a fool when all the evidence leads to Gates losing the case. But then I'm sure you'll say it was because of our prejudice judicial system. Anything to be the entitled victim.
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Give me a break, that idiot Crowley could have walked away after he realized that he was in the Dr.'s house. Then none of this would have heppened. Sounds like just another dickhead white cop to me.
The black officer that was with him said he did not act wrong.
I guess the black officers are dickheaded white cops too? How'd they pull that off?
Crowley was CO, and cops never question their CO. Either the black cop was an Uncle Tom type, or he has no spine and didn't want to diffuse the situation. I will guess it was the latter of the two.
Or three, You wern't there and he did nothing the black cop thought was wrong?
I love how fast liberals start calling blacks who dont play in lockstep with their view points are uncle toms, or are spineless.
Honestly can anyone tell me why blacks support these hypocrates?
Most of them actually don't.
I have a lot of white friends and buddies who think this whole "uncle tom" and "I'm a victim" stuff is b.s. The main difference I've noticed between my black friends and the blacks who scream this "uncle tom" crap is that my black friends are happy and successful in life.
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One thing I've noticed is you really don't have a clue how cops work in real life, and must have been watching too much "Cops" on television or something.
Here's how things really work a lot of times (except the cameras usually don't catch this)
Wed, Jul 29, 2009- Crooked Cops Caught on Dash Cam Video
Police seen plotting to blame car accident on woman they hit
In case you lost count, that's four cops pinning lies on a woman. If this video doesn't exist she's S.O.L. in court. I would wonder what video of the Gates incident would show as well if they had filmed it.
Now if you read back in this thread, I already told you this is EXACTLY how things work and I know from experience working in the field. Of course you'd say I was making it up, but here you have video proof.
This is an apparently Hispanic woman in Florida they are doing this to with NO hesitation, so you can imagine how cops around Boston/Cambridge think when it comes to minorities. And surprise... two officers (one a sergeant) going right along with this plot are Hispanic as well as potentially one who is Black. (Sgt. Diaz, Franscisco and "Karim Thomas") So much for minority cops always acting "objectively" when cops are in trouble and being fully believable.
All your "black friends" you say you have must be relatives of Clarence Thomas cause they sure sound like they have their heads buried and have not lived reality.
NOTE: Coincidentally for anyone reading this, NEVER, EVER talk to the police in a situation like this talking about the incident.
Shut up, and wait to get a lawyer. You think you are cooperating, but you don't have to say anything at all. Let the cops do all the talking (and they will). If you say something, it will get twisted. You give you name, address or any of that kind of info but never discuss the incident as remarks later will come back to haunt you, however 'nice' you are trying to be.
If the cops ask you about sports or the situation in Iraq you can chat all night, but if you discuss anything involving what they are later probably going to charge you with you are just digging your own grave. The recent news on this is that this woman had all charges dismissed for obvious reasons.
Someone watching this video and still saying there's no bias against minorities by police just isn't grounded in reality.
"TO MICHAEL!"
It would comfort you if I was a liberal, but I assure you, I am not. Registered Independent for over a decade now.
Cops have never done shit for me, except cause me trouble. I have ZERO sympathy for cops, and I also think we live in a police state. Combine the over-policing with racial tensions, and this is what you get. Race is a big factor, but ultimately the problem is with our model of law enforcement.
Cops are some of the most uneducated people I have ever met, and it is scary that we let these high school educated people carry around guns and make decisions that affect people's lives. If Crowley had an ounce of common sense or intelligence, he would have walked away from this. Its Dr. Gates house, he can say whatever the fuck he wants to in it.
Forget race for a second. Do you people really think it is right for a cop to call you out of your own house when you have done nothing wrong? It is common knowledge that this dickhead cop knew this was Gate's house. Blindly defending an intrusion of piracy like this is spineless. Where is V when you need him?
One thing I've noticed is you really don't have a clue how cops work in real life, and must have been watching too much "Cops" on television or something.
Here's how things really work a lot of times (except the cameras usually don't catch this)
Wed, Jul 29, 2009- Crooked Cops Caught on Dash Cam Video
Police seen plotting to blame car accident on woman they hit
One thing I've noticed about all the people who want to judge folks in law enforcement on here, including you.
I would bet none of you guys have ever been in any kind of organization that has to deal with their life being threatened every day. These people are not out there pulling cats down from trees and returning lost puppies. They have to constantly assume that the person they are about to confront is dangerous. If they let down their guard then there is a good chance that can be perceived as weakness and they can be killed.
I happen to have a lot of buddies who I was in Iraq with who are now in law enforcement. They are good people. I hear their stories about what kind of shit they have to put up with on the streets. I hear about the double standard that they have to hear from folks like you. And I hear about how even though you run your mouth about them all the time they are still there to put their life on the line if it meant saving yours.
I know exactly what it's like not knowing what situation you are walking up on. I know completely how you have to approach the situation if your intent is survive and protect others around you. And I hope that you people who run your mouths never have to live through a situation like that.
It's like I said before, you can pull these individual cases out by searching the Internets for those bad policeman stories. But for everyone of those that you post I can easily find thousands where the police did some good. You want to judge a large group of people by just a few bad ones in there then go right ahead, but just be ready for that same judgment to come your way. And when it does I expect you to keep your mouth shut. Because you need to follow the same logical path your following with the police officers.
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It would comfort you if I was a liberal, but I assure you, I am not. Registered Independent for over a decade now.
Cops have never done shit for me, except cause me trouble. I have ZERO sympathy for cops, and I also think we live in a police state. Combine the over-policing with racial tensions, and this is what you get. Race is a big factor, but ultimately the problem is with our model of law enforcement.
Cops are some of the most uneducated people I have ever met, and it is scary that we let these high school educated people carry around guns and make decisions that affect people's lives. If Crowley had an ounce of common sense or intelligence, he would have walked away from this. Its Dr. Gates house, he can say whatever the fuck he wants to in it.
Forget race for a second. Do you people really think it is right for a cop to call you out of your own house when you have done nothing wrong? It is common knowledge that this dickhead cop knew this was Gate's house. Blindly defending an intrusion of piracy like this is spineless. Where is V when you need him?
I'm high school educated. WTF of it?
I joined the military out of high school and learned demolitions. That's what I'm working in now in the civilian world. I also received a lot of training in the military on civil enforcement.
Where do you think a lot cops come from? They're ex-military.
Sorry we don't meet your "educated" standards. Perhaps I should work on becoming an elitist intellectual like this Gates guy???
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Individual cases? 1 case is not 10 cases, but 10 single cases are. How many "individual single cases" would it take for you to understand this happens more than you think? 100 single cases? 1,000 single cases?
As said in that article, that was certainly a well balanced contingent of cops; from what I gather two Hispanics, 1 Black and 1 White. They ALL decided to put reports together and lie. Now you say that's one incident; I say that's FOUR cops who have multiple arrests to make yearly. How many other times do you think based on what they said in that video, that they'd be willing to "back up another cop" when it comes down to lying, especially in more serious cases? That was just a traffic fender-bender.
You are supposed to be professional no matter what kind of situation you walk in on. Those cops there sure knew when they got called there. They knew when they discussed it and they knew when they submitted their false reports which is a crime.
Crowley didn't sound professional either, no matter how "unprofessional" Gates was, he was in his own home and he wasn't working so he doesn't have to be professional. Crowley was working and he should have acted like he was getting a paycheck from taxpayers instead of acting like he was a gang member and demanding "props" or like he was off-duty. I don't believe a crippled senior citizen who walks with a cane was a threat for a young, in-shape patrol officer to have to arrest for "disorderly conduct" in his own house. That's weak and it sounds like he just got mad at what he said, not what he did. He didn't charge him with assault or anything just "disorderly conduct"; how is one disorderly in their own home?
The Gates situation, the Florida one and others have nothing to do with danger many times. The cop above hit the woman's car, lol. So your "danger zone" argument is really not even an issue here, yet four cops set her up over pettiness. Of course its not ALL cops that do this, but the way you describe it the number seems like once in a lifetime when its way more than that for sure.
Here's the bottom line; in most departments in the country police officers are paid VERY WELL. They have excellent health and life insurance benefits and they get plenty of vacation, personal and sick time. This is not 1965 and they DESERVE it. I begrudge no police officer the salary they make but I expect professionalism for that; not John Wayne B.S.
Most cops make more on average than the neighbors they live around. When they are hired they are given a MMPI that tests their mental aptitude. If they fail they are washed out. If they pass they are hired. I don't want to hear any more about the "you don't know what it's like" nonsense because they can resign at any time they wish; this isn't the military and they aren't obligated to reach retirement if its too stressful. They'd have a good reference for other jobs to interview for.
"TO MICHAEL!"
It would comfort you if I was a liberal, but I assure you, I am not. Registered Independent for over a decade now.
Cops have never done shit for me, except cause me trouble. I have ZERO sympathy for cops, and I also think we live in a police state. Combine the over-policing with racial tensions, and this is what you get. Race is a big factor, but ultimately the problem is with our model of law enforcement.
Cops are some of the most uneducated people I have ever met, and it is scary that we let these high school educated people carry around guns and make decisions that affect people's lives. If Crowley had an ounce of common sense or intelligence, he would have walked away from this. Its Dr. Gates house, he can say whatever the fuck he wants to in it.
Forget race for a second. Do you people really think it is right for a cop to call you out of your own house when you have done nothing wrong? It is common knowledge that this dickhead cop knew this was Gate's house. Blindly defending an intrusion of piracy like this is spineless. Where is V when you need him?
I'm high school educated. WTF of it?
I joined the military out of high school and learned demolitions. That's what I'm working in now in the civilian world. I also received a lot of training in the military on civil enforcement.
Where do you think a lot cops come from? They're ex-military.
Sorry we don't meet your "educated" standards. Perhaps I should work on becoming an elitist intellectual like this Gates guy???
First Dis_Order. Claiming your "Independant" is as silly as Pop Claiming that.
And I agree With Gnome The Number of Elitists on this Site are Staggering.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
Look, I'm on Crowley's side all the way up to the point where he arrested Gates for disturbing the peace. I think Crowley arrived on the scene with suspicion of breaking and entering, worked to assess possible dangers, all while being berated by a man who was quite unhappy about the situation and thought race played a role. However, when it was official that no crime had taken place, and the situation was basically over and each could go their separate ways, he arrested Gates for disturbing the peace. That, in my opinion, was a completely unnecessary display of power, and is the only reason this became a national incident.
I don't judge other law enforcement personnel based on this incident. I've had several incidents of my own, none race related, that were merely displays of power by law enforcement. I've also had some where I was acting inappropriately yet law enforcement kept their cool and diffused the situation. This case would have worked out much better if Crowley had said "have a good evening" and left Gates in his home.
This story has spiraled out of control and with lies and embellishment has become something horrible and obscene.
Sounds like a simple incident that would of been resolved with some understanding. Let me be very clear, I don't support surrendering our rights to the police upon their request, infact, if you think that you should you may as well not have any rights at all, but in this case, I think the cop was doing his duty and that duty was made more complex by the suspect's overreacting. On the other hand, arresting Gates for his poor conduct was not in accordance with the law.
Both were wrong and Gates should be very grateful that this officer was less inclined to use a taser than some of his comrades.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
If Sgt. Crowley had used a taser on Gates inside of his own home, we wouldn't be talking about Sgt. Crowley now.
We'd be talking about ex-Sgt. Crowley. Crowley is the lucky one here, lol.
"TO MICHAEL!"
It would comfort you if I was a liberal, but I assure you, I am not. Registered Independent for over a decade now.
Cops have never done shit for me, except cause me trouble. I have ZERO sympathy for cops, and I also think we live in a police state. Combine the over-policing with racial tensions, and this is what you get. Race is a big factor, but ultimately the problem is with our model of law enforcement.
Cops are some of the most uneducated people I have ever met, and it is scary that we let these high school educated people carry around guns and make decisions that affect people's lives. If Crowley had an ounce of common sense or intelligence, he would have walked away from this. Its Dr. Gates house, he can say whatever the fuck he wants to in it.
Forget race for a second. Do you people really think it is right for a cop to call you out of your own house when you have done nothing wrong? It is common knowledge that this dickhead cop knew this was Gate's house. Blindly defending an intrusion of piracy like this is spineless. Where is V when you need him?
I'm high school educated. WTF of it?
I joined the military out of high school and learned demolitions. That's what I'm working in now in the civilian world. I also received a lot of training in the military on civil enforcement.
Where do you think a lot cops come from? They're ex-military.
Sorry we don't meet your "educated" standards. Perhaps I should work on becoming an elitist intellectual like this Gates guy???
First Dis_Order. Claiming your "Independant" is as silly as Pop Claiming that.
And I agree With Gnome The Number of Elitists on this Site are Staggering.
Yeah, they are independents like Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Democrats are to the RIGHT of them.
Either way I gotta say, my dear brother in LIbertarianism, we're gonna have to agree to disagree here. Looking at the case and knowing the fourth amendment, they made a bad arrest with no real grounds. You are free to be drunk and disorderly in your own home. You are free to mouth off to a cop who is intruding in your own home without a warrant or probable cause. At the time the arrest was made, Crowley KNEW who the man was, knew he was in his own home, and arrested him because he was being disrespectful to the Law. Sorry, I can't accept that.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I think you know me a little better than that Fisher. I have always been a fiscal conservative, but an VERY liberal when it comes to social issues and believe that government has no right to interfere with my personal life. If Ron Paul didn't have so many cockamamie ideas, I could see myself supporting him.
But enough about my "elitist" self. Good post. I have yet to hear Gnome or anyone else defend the cop's invasion of privacy. Is that right?
And Gnome, there is nothing wrong with being high school educated (although you write rather well, and should probably consider going back to school for further yourself, you seem more intelligent). I just happen to believe that high school education is not adequate enough to become a cop. There are too many instances where a cop has to use judgement (as this case clearly shows), and I would rather have someone educated making those calls.
Lets also not forget that most police do not even live in the communities they cover. There is no personal relationship with law enforcement nowadays, and they really are out to get you.
I agree with this to a point.
I don't think you necessarily want "smarter" cops with degrees as much as you want "dedicated" cops who will uphold the law.
From what I've seen over the years, smarter cops are usually more trouble. They think which in a lot of cases is bad. They are more easily manipulated by perpetrators/criminals because they usually have a lot of "book smarts" but not a lot of street smarts.
A lot of highly educated cops also don't like to patrol any longer than they have to. Most college educated officers tend to want to climb the ladder much faster than the high school cop. They see that having all this education is worthless on a day to day level when you are dealing with people who speak plainly and coarsely. So they apply to Internal Affairs, Training Divisions, SWAT, supervisory positions... anything that can get them out of "the shit". Chances are if you see a cop on any police force with a degree, he's long been planning his escape from dealing with that actual policework and wants to make write policy and standard operating procedures. More educated cops are not the answer.
Educated cops also tend to view their morality in different ways than lower educated ones. Some simply think risking their life is not worth it, I mean.. they have degrees so why are they getting shanked by a wino with mental problems? Higher educated cops also tend to get extremely bored with the day/day policework because they aren't using their education for the most part at work.
I think what departments need are cops who are educated enough to read/write reports and follow policy because they basically are footsoldiers. You don't want them THINKING for the most part but following policy. A thinking cop will see a policy that's wrong, won't follow it and then the department gets sued. Cops should never be making "judgement calls", they should read and follow the SOPs that were derived and written from state and federal laws. Most problems happen when cops "think" outside the box and deviate from protocol, like Crowley did here to some extent. After seeing no crime, he should have left; not stuck around and argued with Gates.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Something I saw on O'Reilly that I think is so relevant here:
But Colmes actually defended the double standard under which white men can be freely criticized. "There has always been a white power structure. There has never been a Hispanic on the court and out of 111 justices, only four have not been white men. When you are a member of a group that has not had power, there is a different paradigm." The Factor accused many in the media of manifest prejudice: "There is a strategy on the part of the left-wing media to say that white men have screwed up America and we need to throw them out."
O'Reilly Factor Flash Wednesday July 15, 2009
Bill O'Reilly discusses Evil White Men
Colmes's admission about 7:40 to 8:05ish must be watched
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness#Early_usages
I think the point is missed. If you can control one group of people under the guise of "equalizing all" then control will eventually be obtained over all groups.
(This country actually has equal opportunity)
Our furthering progressing disease from our Overlord: Oppression itself.
Not really a surprise though since the early symptons of this disease were best used by a oppressive Communist government itself. I'm not surprised to see the East's symptons continue rearing on the West.
Gates on MalcomX Racist Rants: "It Was Great!"
The professor knew what he was doing. Welcome to a disease.
Race indeed has nothing to do with this but control does.
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
I think you know me a little better than that Fisher. I have always been a fiscal conservative, but an VERY liberal when it comes to social issues and believe that government has no right to interfere with my personal life. If Ron Paul didn't have so many cockamamie ideas, I could see myself supporting him.
But enough about my "elitist" self. Good post. I have yet to hear Gnome or anyone else defend the cop's invasion of privacy. Is that right?
And Gnome, there is nothing wrong with being high school educated (although you write rather well, and should probably consider going back to school for further yourself, you seem more intelligent). I just happen to believe that high school education is not adequate enough to become a cop. There are too many instances where a cop has to use judgement (as this case clearly shows), and I would rather have someone educated making those calls.
Lets also not forget that most police do not even live in the communities they cover. There is no personal relationship with law enforcement nowadays, and they really are out to get you.
Sorry you can NOT be a fiscal conservative and have voted for Obama. It just can't be done. He ran pretty much telling everyone he would be the biggest government spender in history. McCain was the fiscal conservative AND a social liberal last time around. But you chose to call the candidate supposedly closer to your view names, and went for Mister Spread the Wealth Around.
I have not seen a mea culpa from you for supporting this mess; until you do, I doubt your fiscal conservatism.
Plus, yeah you do not need even a high school education to know the law and the constitution -- you can learn that anywhere. Had those two things been known, this never would have happened.
I did not learn about the law and the constitution in school -- they don't teach people that in government schools. Just not gonna happen; since the federalization of education blatantly violates the 10th amendment, if they taught kids these things, the whole socialist empire known as the United States would fall, and we'd be a free nation. Heaven forbid such a thing.
fishermage.blogspot.com