The point is...if you can get it in the item mall you can get it in the game...WTF is the big deal. You DONT HAVE TO BUY ANYTHING...you can earn the same damn thing in the game. Why is this such a problem for people to grasp?
As stated in post#27 to wait for them to release news regarding what will be available to purchase.
1) Well, why is that not available now ( release is soon 9/1/09 ) ?
2) Will they get people hooked, only for higher level cash shop stuff to be more desirable ?
3) Will the first 3 patches after people are hooked have better stuff in cash shops ?
4) Will your group arrive 10% faster at the meeting place because they are paying $17.95, and your only paying $14.95 ?
Using a cash shop at all causes a game to loose credibility, at least to me, AND IT SHOULD TO YOU ALSO !!! Are you so blinded because of a new release that you don't care ?
Do you pay MSRP for that black BMW just because they have it in the show room now, and you don't have to wait to order it from another dealer ?
Well I'm playing the game anyway, but I don't like it. First sign of trouble and I'll be out. My guess is that the first few months will be fine anyway before they start to pull tricks.
The RMT is not an issue by itself. The RMT on top of a subscription is. I never liked gold farmers, never bought anything from them. If the developers want to become gold farmers themselves, more power to them. That doesn't mean I'm going to like it any more than I liked the presence of the unauthorised gold farmers. Just because they "legalised" gold farming, doesn't mean that I have to approve it with my wallet.
Definitely this.
My feeling is...I never liked the idea of RMT in games. I feel like I need a shower after playing one. Not that I ever paid for anything extra in the couple that I've played with the RMT option.
Even IF it doesn't make you more powerfull than me, and it's purely a cosmetic thing, the idea that paying real world money to give you something "extra" in the game brings too much reality into the game, and I play games to escape reality. It totally ruins the immersion for me personally.
Will I try the game? Probably yes, simply because I like the superhero genre. It should give me a month or two entertainment. Will I stick with it? Probably not, but we shall see.
The point is...if you can get it in the item mall you can get it in the game...WTF is the big deal. You DONT HAVE TO BUY ANYTHING...you can earn the same damn thing in the game. Why is this such a problem for people to grasp?
Because if you know anything how business works, this brings up a warning flag for some of us. They like to suck you in with teasers, then wallop you once you are hooked.
I can see it now, the first couple of months, it will be purely cosmetic as they claim (I have yet to see the proof by the way). After that, they will add a couple of "exclusive" cosmetic items that can't be obtained through normal gameplay. Fast forward a bit, then one or two "exclusive powers". Fast forward a bit more, it becomes another "those with the most money, wins" type game.
They want to make gobs of money. It's the new business model for MMOs. The cat is out of the bag, it's no big secret anymore.
The RMT is not an issue by itself. The RMT on top of a subscription is. I never liked gold farmers, never bought anything from them. If the developers want to become gold farmers themselves, more power to them. That doesn't mean I'm going to like it any more than I liked the presence of the unauthorised gold farmers. Just because they "legalised" gold farming, doesn't mean that I have to approve it with my wallet.
Definitely this.
My feeling is...I never liked the idea of RMT in games. I feel like I need a shower after playing one. Not that I ever paid for anything extra in the couple that I've played with the RMT option.
Even IF it doesn't make you more powerfull then me, and it's purely a cosmetic thing, the idea that paying real world money to give you something "extra" in the game brings too much reality into the game, and I play games to escape reality. It totally ruins the immersion for me personally.
Will I try the game? Probably yes, simply because I like the superhero genre. It should give me a month or two entertainment. Will I stick with it? Probably not, but we shall see.
And this is exactly why RMTs will be legion with subscription models in the future. It is because people like you (and me) will scream, bitch and moan about RMTs. However, unlike you, I have the courage of my convictions and I will NOT buy the game. Those of you who do are just feeding the monster that you claim you want to slay.
Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.
As stated in post#27 to wait for them to release news regarding what will be available to purchase. 1) Well, why is that not available now ( release is soon 9/1/09 ) ? 2) Will they get people hooked, only for higher level cash shop stuff to be more desirable ? 3) Will the first 3 patches after people are hooked have better stuff in cash shops ? 4) Will your group arrive 10% faster at the meeting place because they are paying $17.95, and your only paying $14.95 ? Using a cash shop at all causes a game to loose credibility, at least to me, AND IT SHOULD TO YOU ALSO !!! Are you so blinded because of a new release that you don't care ? Do you pay MSRP for that black BMW just because they have it in the show room now, and you don't have to wait to order it from another dealer ? Well I'm playing the game anyway, but I don't like it. First sign of trouble and I'll be out. My guess is that the first few months will be fine anyway before they start to pull tricks. Because Cash shops = tricks !!
I think you have kinda lost credibility to me. It started with the earlier post (the infamous epic fail you tube post). Then you say that the game looses credibility when using a cash shop, then tell us WE should feel the same way, THEN you say you are going to purchase the game. Your back and forth is starting to make my head swim.
Using a cash shop at all causes a game to loose credibility, at least to me, AND IT SHOULD TO YOU ALSO !!! Are you so blinded because of a new release that you don't care ?
How about you worry about yourself and your conserns and let me do the same.
Right now the payment model is a not an issue for me. If they start doing things with it that makes the game unenjoyable for me then I'll quit, it is as simple as that.
Did anyone worry that the TCG in WoW would imbalance the game to the point that the only way to get ahead would be to buy trading cards? The WoW TCG still has mostly cosmetic and some game effecting items. Did it trash that game by allowing the TCG to have ZOMG "game effect" items like epic mounts? Why hasn't the WoW TCG devolved into something much worse than it started as? Maybe they should have put exclusive epic weapons in every booster pack. Look out paranoid ones, I'm sure its coming.
Oh yeah! Because that is the slippery slope argument and its a fucking logical falacy. They said their won't be items that effect game balance. What more do you need to make you realize that the CO MT shop won't be anything like those crappy F2P games?
And you paranoid ones better be careful. Turbine has made it clear that DDO is just an experiment for MT's. I'm sure the thought of MT's for LotRO and all their future MMOGs is making it hard for you to sleep at night. You'll have nowhere to go. EQ, nope. WoW, nope. EQ2, nope. LotRO, not if DDO:U goes well. Eve, nope.
You're gonna have to sit in a bare room on the floor doing nothing all day long because it offends your sensibilities to buy furniture. "Oh noes, furniture should come with my rent subscription." Its not like you can watch TV since the cable companies charge you extra for all those special channels and you don't want to feel left out. Nobody will call you either because you won't have a phone that might charge you extra for a text message or a long distance call. Have a nice life.
As stated in post#27 to wait for them to release news regarding what will be available to purchase. 1) Well, why is that not available now ( release is soon 9/1/09 ) ? 2) Will they get people hooked, only for higher level cash shop stuff to be more desirable ? 3) Will the first 3 patches after people are hooked have better stuff in cash shops ? 4) Will your group arrive 10% faster at the meeting place because they are paying $17.95, and your only paying $14.95 ? Using a cash shop at all causes a game to loose credibility, at least to me, AND IT SHOULD TO YOU ALSO !!! Are you so blinded because of a new release that you don't care ? Do you pay MSRP for that black BMW just because they have it in the show room now, and you don't have to wait to order it from another dealer ? Well I'm playing the game anyway, but I don't like it. First sign of trouble and I'll be out. My guess is that the first few months will be fine anyway before they start to pull tricks. Because Cash shops = tricks !!
I think you have kinda lost credibility to me. It started with the earlier post (the infamous epic fail you tube post). Then you say that the game looses credibility when using a cash shop, then tell us WE should feel the same way, THEN you say you are going to purchase the game. Your back and forth is starting to make my head swim.
The RMT is not an issue by itself. The RMT on top of a subscription is. I never liked gold farmers, never bought anything from them. If the developers want to become gold farmers themselves, more power to them. That doesn't mean I'm going to like it any more than I liked the presence of the unauthorised gold farmers. Just because they "legalised" gold farming, doesn't mean that I have to approve it with my wallet.
Definitely this.
My feeling is...I never liked the idea of RMT in games. I feel like I need a shower after playing one. Not that I ever paid for anything extra in the couple that I've played with the RMT option.
Even IF it doesn't make you more powerfull than me, and it's purely a cosmetic thing, the idea that paying real world money to give you something "extra" in the game brings too much reality into the game, and I play games to escape reality. It totally ruins the immersion for me personally.
I couldn't have said it better. I would suggest support MMOs with subscription only models to make a statement to the producers if you agree with this person I quote above me.
As stated in post#27 to wait for them to release news regarding what will be available to purchase. 1) Well, why is that not available now ( release is soon 9/1/09 ) ? 2) Will they get people hooked, only for higher level cash shop stuff to be more desirable ? 3) Will the first 3 patches after people are hooked have better stuff in cash shops ? 4) Will your group arrive 10% faster at the meeting place because they are paying $17.95, and your only paying $14.95 ? Using a cash shop at all causes a game to loose credibility, at least to me, AND IT SHOULD TO YOU ALSO !!! Are you so blinded because of a new release that you don't care ? Do you pay MSRP for that black BMW just because they have it in the show room now, and you don't have to wait to order it from another dealer ? Well I'm playing the game anyway, but I don't like it. First sign of trouble and I'll be out. My guess is that the first few months will be fine anyway before they start to pull tricks. Because Cash shops = tricks !!
I think you have kinda lost credibility to me. It started with the earlier post (the infamous epic fail you tube post). Then you say that the game looses credibility when using a cash shop, then tell us WE should feel the same way, THEN you say you are going to purchase the game. Your back and forth is starting to make my head swim.
As stated in post#27 to wait for them to release news regarding what will be available to purchase. 1) Well, why is that not available now ( release is soon 9/1/09 ) ? 2) Will they get people hooked, only for higher level cash shop stuff to be more desirable ? 3) Will the first 3 patches after people are hooked have better stuff in cash shops ? 4) Will your group arrive 10% faster at the meeting place because they are paying $17.95, and your only paying $14.95 ? Using a cash shop at all causes a game to loose credibility, at least to me, AND IT SHOULD TO YOU ALSO !!! Are you so blinded because of a new release that you don't care ? Do you pay MSRP for that black BMW just because they have it in the show room now, and you don't have to wait to order it from another dealer ? Well I'm playing the game anyway, but I don't like it. First sign of trouble and I'll be out. My guess is that the first few months will be fine anyway before they start to pull tricks. Because Cash shops = tricks !!
I think you have kinda lost credibility to me. It started with the earlier post (the infamous epic fail you tube post). Then you say that the game looses credibility when using a cash shop, then tell us WE should feel the same way, THEN you say you are going to purchase the game. Your back and forth is starting to make my head swim.
QFT
This^
Reguardless of my credibility, Cash shops = tricks.
So play the game, but watch your back like I will. Having an MT opens the door for the devs. to do many things to the players, such as if they start loosing profet they can take it out on what player base they have. I could make a list that could go on forever if you would like with the nasteyness of a cash shop.
remember:
Vanguard, Warhammer, Darkfall AoC and 20 other games that eather pulled off tricks or just sucked !
As stated in post#27 to wait for them to release news regarding what will be available to purchase. 1) Well, why is that not available now ( release is soon 9/1/09 ) ? 2) Will they get people hooked, only for higher level cash shop stuff to be more desirable ? 3) Will the first 3 patches after people are hooked have better stuff in cash shops ? 4) Will your group arrive 10% faster at the meeting place because they are paying $17.95, and your only paying $14.95 ? Using a cash shop at all causes a game to loose credibility, at least to me, AND IT SHOULD TO YOU ALSO !!! Are you so blinded because of a new release that you don't care ? Do you pay MSRP for that black BMW just because they have it in the show room now, and you don't have to wait to order it from another dealer ? Well I'm playing the game anyway, but I don't like it. First sign of trouble and I'll be out. My guess is that the first few months will be fine anyway before they start to pull tricks. Because Cash shops = tricks !!
I think you have kinda lost credibility to me. It started with the earlier post (the infamous epic fail you tube post). Then you say that the game looses credibility when using a cash shop, then tell us WE should feel the same way, THEN you say you are going to purchase the game. Your back and forth is starting to make my head swim.
QFT
This^
Reguardless of my credibility, Cash shops = tricks.
So play the game, but watch your back like I will. Having an MT opens the door for the devs. to do many things to the players, such as if they start loosing profet they can take it out on what player base they have. I could make a list that could go on forever if you would like with the nasteyness of a cash shop.
remember:
Vanguard, Warhammer, Darkfall AoC and 20 other games that eather pulled off tricks or just sucked !
What do Vanguard, Warhammer, Darkfall, or AoC have to do with cash shops?
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
The point is...if you can get it in the item mall you can get it in the game...WTF is the big deal. You DONT HAVE TO BUY ANYTHING...you can earn the same damn thing in the game. Why is this such a problem for people to grasp?
That's not actually true.
In his diabolically demystifying interview, Roper indicated that there would be some items which can only be purchased by the item mall.
The point is...if you can get it in the item mall you can get it in the game...WTF is the big deal. You DONT HAVE TO BUY ANYTHING...you can earn the same damn thing in the game. Why is this such a problem for people to grasp?
That's not actually true.
In his diabolically demystifying interview, Roper indicated that there would be some items which can only be purchased by the item mall.
And he also stated that those items were like the mounts and pets from WoW's trading card game. Look cool but do nothing aka not game changing.
He also stated that currently no game changing items are on the cash shop and if they do go up that those items would be available in game still.
I'm not sure why everyone's QQ'ing over some statless costume peices & ingame statless trinkets. People want to look different and unique and the only way to get that is through a cash shop (it sucks but its true) since everyone and their brother will have the pve / pvp drops.
If the start throwing up End Game Raid or Omega Gear with stats I could see the reasong to QQ but they've already stated thats not going to happen (yes i know we have to take that with a grain of salt, but look at their history with CoH they arent' known for being liars even if Roper is..he's only a face out of a sea of many.)
The point is...if you can get it in the item mall you can get it in the game...WTF is the big deal. You DONT HAVE TO BUY ANYTHING...you can earn the same damn thing in the game. Why is this such a problem for people to grasp?
That's not actually true.
In his diabolically demystifying interview, Roper indicated that there would be some items which can only be purchased by the item mall.
And he also stated that those items were like the mounts and pets from WoW's trading card game. Look cool but do nothing aka not game changing.
He also stated that currently no game changing items are on the cash shop and if they do go up that those items would be available in game still.
I'm not sure why everyone's QQ'ing over some statless costume peices & ingame statless trinkets. People want to look different and unique and the only way to get that is through a cash shop (it sucks but its true) since everyone and their brother will have the pve / pvp drops.
If the start throwing up End Game Raid or Omega Gear with stats I could see the reasong to QQ but they've already stated thats not going to happen (yes i know we have to take that with a grain of salt, but look at their history with CoH they arent' known for being liars even if Roper is..he's only a face out of a sea of many.)
If you are paying a full standard monthly fee ALL items should be included in the game you pay for. I dislike what WoW has done with trading cards also, just for you to know there is no favortism here. There are other ways to make more revenue other than ruin video games with real life money transactions for virtual items.
If you are paying a full standard monthly fee ALL items should be included in the game you pay for. I dislike what WoW has done with trading cards also, just for you to know there is no favortism here. There are other ways to make more revenue other than ruin video games with real life money transactions for virtual items.
I gave a plausible alternative reality to this statement in this same thread. I would rather have the OPTION to buy a different costume set now then have to wait a year until the expansion is released; and pay for it then.
Maybe they are going with the micro-transaction model because any other way they would not be able to afford to design these new items that will be available in the cash shop.
All I'm saying is that if there wasn't going to be a cash shop, we probably wouldn't be getting the items at all.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
The point is...if you can get it in the item mall you can get it in the game...WTF is the big deal. You DONT HAVE TO BUY ANYTHING...you can earn the same damn thing in the game. Why is this such a problem for people to grasp?
That's not actually true.
In his diabolically demystifying interview, Roper indicated that there would be some items which can only be purchased by the item mall.
And he also stated that those items were like the mounts and pets from WoW's trading card game. Look cool but do nothing aka not game changing.
He also stated that currently no game changing items are on the cash shop and if they do go up that those items would be available in game still.
Yes I know, to your first point. I made the correction in the interest of helping to keep the discussion honest.
And no to your second point - you're misinterpreting one of Bill Roper's trademark vague comments.
So the idea with that would be for something that had an in- game effect. Off the top of my head I don’t know that there’s anything like that on the docket, but I think that might be a good idea to do that, or at least have a place for players to find that information pretty easily. But since that hasn’t really been an issue yet that’s not something we’ve looked at.
He says "I don't know". Now you'd think that a man who was on a mission to demystify an issue which is kicking his baby in the nads would take the time to become informed himself....
And rather than tell us "there aren't currently" or "will never be" game changing items, Cryptic instead tell us:
Any micro-transaction that has a game effect can also be earned in the game through play
That's "has", as in present tense, as in is-currently-in-the-shop.
If you are paying a full standard monthly fee ALL items should be included in the game you pay for. I dislike what WoW has done with trading cards also, just for you to know there is no favortism here. There are other ways to make more revenue other than ruin video games with real life money transactions for virtual items.
I gave a plausible alternative reality to this statement in this same thread. I would rather have the OPTION to buy a different costume set now then have to wait a year until the expansion is released; and pay for it then.
Maybe they are going with the micro-transaction model because any other way they would not be able to afford to design these new items that will be available in the cash shop.
All I'm saying is that if there wasn't going to be a cash shop, we probably wouldn't be getting the items at all.
That is where I differ. I would prefer to wait to get any item in a game via game play methods. I don't consider swiping my credit card for items fun in anyway or belonging in a game. I just don't agree with item shops and I most definitely do not agree with subscription plus item shops.
If you are paying a full standard monthly fee ALL items should be included in the game you pay for. I dislike what WoW has done with trading cards also, just for you to know there is no favortism here. There are other ways to make more revenue other than ruin video games with real life money transactions for virtual items.
I gave a plausible alternative reality to this statement in this same thread. I would rather have the OPTION to buy a different costume set now then have to wait a year until the expansion is released; and pay for it then.
Maybe they are going with the micro-transaction model because any other way they would not be able to afford to design these new items that will be available in the cash shop.
All I'm saying is that if there wasn't going to be a cash shop, we probably wouldn't be getting the items at all.
That is where I differ. I would prefer to wait to get any item in a game via game play methods. I don't consider swiping my credit card for items fun in anyway or belonging in a game. I just don't agree with item shops and I most definitely do not agree with subscription plus item shops.
While I completely support your opinion, you're still missing my point. You can't get the item in-game if it doens't exist at all.
I don't consider swiping my credit card for items fun either. I never did it in EQ2, never did it in WoW, never did it in CoX, and I doubt I'll ever do it in Champions Online.
That's not going to stop me from playing a perfectly enjoyable game though.
Anyway, difference of opinion and all that. Good luck with your gaming.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I love the idea of microtransactions my favorite mmo of all time was FFXI that game is getting killed by gil/gold sellers. People are doing microtransactions in every game right now its just that gold farmers are making all the profits. What's the diffrence if i go give a gold seller 20$ and by a epic sword of pwnage or if i give it to the developer. The diffrence is if i give it the cryptic they make more money. If the make more money it makes atari happy. If Atari is happy they give cryptic more attention which results in a better game. If i give the money to a gold seller they monopolize spawn points inflate auction house prices grief the chat logs steal accounts then the developer try's to ban them and they end up banning a bunch of innocent people. People are going to buy the items anyways why not do it in the most productive way possible.
If you are paying a full standard monthly fee ALL items should be included in the game you pay for. I dislike what WoW has done with trading cards also, just for you to know there is no favortism here. There are other ways to make more revenue other than ruin video games with real life money transactions for virtual items.
I gave a plausible alternative reality to this statement in this same thread. I would rather have the OPTION to buy a different costume set now then have to wait a year until the expansion is released; and pay for it then.
Maybe they are going with the micro-transaction model because any other way they would not be able to afford to design these new items that will be available in the cash shop.
All I'm saying is that if there wasn't going to be a cash shop, we probably wouldn't be getting the items at all.
That is where I differ. I would prefer to wait to get any item in a game via game play methods. I don't consider swiping my credit card for items fun in anyway or belonging in a game. I just don't agree with item shops and I most definitely do not agree with subscription plus item shops.
While I completely support your opinion, you're still missing my point. You can't get the item in-game if it doens't exist at all.
I don't consider swiping my credit card for items fun either. I never did it in EQ2, never did it in WoW, never did it in CoX, and I doubt I'll ever do it in Champions Online.
That's not going to stop me from playing a perfectly enjoyable game though.
Anyway, difference of opinion and all that. Good luck with your gaming.
Thank you, for keeping the conversation civil. Even though we disagree I enjoyed reading your post and opinions.
Originally posted by Darkness690Not really. Still nobody has answered how other people using MT effects your gameplay. Especially if all the items that can be bought, can be acquired in game. So, I stick to my original statement.
Here's a scenario where it either effects your gameplay or effects your wallet.
Say there is uber item X, an item that is very useful if you're a healer type person. Now let's say it's pretty hard to get -- not impossible, but pretty hard. Now let's also say you can just buy the item.
Now, let's keep in mind that a ton of people who play mmo's are elitist. Here's the way this will play out.
"Let's go kill monster y! Who wants to come?"
"Oh, I do! I do!!"
"Well, you're a healer right? Do you have uber item X?"
"Oh, not yet. But I have this other item that's pretty close"
"No, we NEED uber item X. Sorry. Why don't you just buy it?"
This is obviously an exaggeration, but you get the point. Situations that are similar, though smaller in scale, occur in mmo's all the time. Is it stupid? Heck yeah. But it still happens. So when you let people acquire items with money, what you end up with is people feeling like they need to buy the objects to be able to do the fun things they want to do. You don't have to, sure. But I am willing to bet (and for that matter, so are the developers, or they wouldn't spend the time creating the cash shop) that you WILL, to save time.
Cash shops are bad because they are rewarding the developers for laziness. If getting uber object X was actually fun, people would WANT to do it. You can make it hard without making it time consuming, but that requires a lot more effort by the developers. Instead, they merely say, "oh, you want this item? Just buy it." Sure, you don't have to. Sure, you could get it through the game. But if anyone buys in-game items for real money it means the gameplay sucks and/or the community pressures people to just buy certain items to save time.
Why can't they just make the game fun and get rid of the cash shop?
P.S. I don't care at all about selling costumes or anything else. I am gullible, so I believe them when they say they wont' add game-changing items (things like str + 50%). But adding in items that you would otherwise have to work for in the game IS game-changing.
Comments
The point is...if you can get it in the item mall you can get it in the game...WTF is the big deal. You DONT HAVE TO BUY ANYTHING...you can earn the same damn thing in the game. Why is this such a problem for people to grasp?
As stated in post#27 to wait for them to release news regarding what will be available to purchase.
1) Well, why is that not available now ( release is soon 9/1/09 ) ?
2) Will they get people hooked, only for higher level cash shop stuff to be more desirable ?
3) Will the first 3 patches after people are hooked have better stuff in cash shops ?
4) Will your group arrive 10% faster at the meeting place because they are paying $17.95, and your only paying $14.95 ?
Using a cash shop at all causes a game to loose credibility, at least to me, AND IT SHOULD TO YOU ALSO !!! Are you so blinded because of a new release that you don't care ?
Do you pay MSRP for that black BMW just because they have it in the show room now, and you don't have to wait to order it from another dealer ?
Well I'm playing the game anyway, but I don't like it. First sign of trouble and I'll be out. My guess is that the first few months will be fine anyway before they start to pull tricks.
Because Cash shops = tricks !!
Definitely this.
My feeling is...I never liked the idea of RMT in games. I feel like I need a shower after playing one. Not that I ever paid for anything extra in the couple that I've played with the RMT option.
Even IF it doesn't make you more powerfull than me, and it's purely a cosmetic thing, the idea that paying real world money to give you something "extra" in the game brings too much reality into the game, and I play games to escape reality. It totally ruins the immersion for me personally.
Will I try the game? Probably yes, simply because I like the superhero genre. It should give me a month or two entertainment. Will I stick with it? Probably not, but we shall see.
Because if you know anything how business works, this brings up a warning flag for some of us. They like to suck you in with teasers, then wallop you once you are hooked.
I can see it now, the first couple of months, it will be purely cosmetic as they claim (I have yet to see the proof by the way). After that, they will add a couple of "exclusive" cosmetic items that can't be obtained through normal gameplay. Fast forward a bit, then one or two "exclusive powers". Fast forward a bit more, it becomes another "those with the most money, wins" type game.
They want to make gobs of money. It's the new business model for MMOs. The cat is out of the bag, it's no big secret anymore.
Definitely this.
My feeling is...I never liked the idea of RMT in games. I feel like I need a shower after playing one. Not that I ever paid for anything extra in the couple that I've played with the RMT option.
Even IF it doesn't make you more powerfull then me, and it's purely a cosmetic thing, the idea that paying real world money to give you something "extra" in the game brings too much reality into the game, and I play games to escape reality. It totally ruins the immersion for me personally.
Will I try the game? Probably yes, simply because I like the superhero genre. It should give me a month or two entertainment. Will I stick with it? Probably not, but we shall see.
And this is exactly why RMTs will be legion with subscription models in the future. It is because people like you (and me) will scream, bitch and moan about RMTs. However, unlike you, I have the courage of my convictions and I will NOT buy the game. Those of you who do are just feeding the monster that you claim you want to slay.
Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.
I think you have kinda lost credibility to me. It started with the earlier post (the infamous epic fail you tube post). Then you say that the game looses credibility when using a cash shop, then tell us WE should feel the same way, THEN you say you are going to purchase the game. Your back and forth is starting to make my head swim.
How about you worry about yourself and your conserns and let me do the same.
Right now the payment model is a not an issue for me. If they start doing things with it that makes the game unenjoyable for me then I'll quit, it is as simple as that.
More paranoia? Seriously, more?
Did anyone worry that the TCG in WoW would imbalance the game to the point that the only way to get ahead would be to buy trading cards? The WoW TCG still has mostly cosmetic and some game effecting items. Did it trash that game by allowing the TCG to have ZOMG "game effect" items like epic mounts? Why hasn't the WoW TCG devolved into something much worse than it started as? Maybe they should have put exclusive epic weapons in every booster pack. Look out paranoid ones, I'm sure its coming.
Oh yeah! Because that is the slippery slope argument and its a fucking logical falacy. They said their won't be items that effect game balance. What more do you need to make you realize that the CO MT shop won't be anything like those crappy F2P games?
And you paranoid ones better be careful. Turbine has made it clear that DDO is just an experiment for MT's. I'm sure the thought of MT's for LotRO and all their future MMOGs is making it hard for you to sleep at night. You'll have nowhere to go. EQ, nope. WoW, nope. EQ2, nope. LotRO, not if DDO:U goes well. Eve, nope.
You're gonna have to sit in a bare room on the floor doing nothing all day long because it offends your sensibilities to buy furniture. "Oh noes, furniture should come with my rent subscription." Its not like you can watch TV since the cable companies charge you extra for all those special channels and you don't want to feel left out. Nobody will call you either because you won't have a phone that might charge you extra for a text message or a long distance call. Have a nice life.
I think you have kinda lost credibility to me. It started with the earlier post (the infamous epic fail you tube post). Then you say that the game looses credibility when using a cash shop, then tell us WE should feel the same way, THEN you say you are going to purchase the game. Your back and forth is starting to make my head swim.
QFT
Definitely this.
My feeling is...I never liked the idea of RMT in games. I feel like I need a shower after playing one. Not that I ever paid for anything extra in the couple that I've played with the RMT option.
Even IF it doesn't make you more powerfull than me, and it's purely a cosmetic thing, the idea that paying real world money to give you something "extra" in the game brings too much reality into the game, and I play games to escape reality. It totally ruins the immersion for me personally.
I couldn't have said it better. I would suggest support MMOs with subscription only models to make a statement to the producers if you agree with this person I quote above me.
I think you have kinda lost credibility to me. It started with the earlier post (the infamous epic fail you tube post). Then you say that the game looses credibility when using a cash shop, then tell us WE should feel the same way, THEN you say you are going to purchase the game. Your back and forth is starting to make my head swim.
QFT
This^
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
I think you have kinda lost credibility to me. It started with the earlier post (the infamous epic fail you tube post). Then you say that the game looses credibility when using a cash shop, then tell us WE should feel the same way, THEN you say you are going to purchase the game. Your back and forth is starting to make my head swim.
QFT
This^
Reguardless of my credibility, Cash shops = tricks.
So play the game, but watch your back like I will. Having an MT opens the door for the devs. to do many things to the players, such as if they start loosing profet they can take it out on what player base they have. I could make a list that could go on forever if you would like with the nasteyness of a cash shop.
remember:
Vanguard, Warhammer, Darkfall AoC and 20 other games that eather pulled off tricks or just sucked !
I think you have kinda lost credibility to me. It started with the earlier post (the infamous epic fail you tube post). Then you say that the game looses credibility when using a cash shop, then tell us WE should feel the same way, THEN you say you are going to purchase the game. Your back and forth is starting to make my head swim.
QFT
This^
Reguardless of my credibility, Cash shops = tricks.
So play the game, but watch your back like I will. Having an MT opens the door for the devs. to do many things to the players, such as if they start loosing profet they can take it out on what player base they have. I could make a list that could go on forever if you would like with the nasteyness of a cash shop.
remember:
Vanguard, Warhammer, Darkfall AoC and 20 other games that eather pulled off tricks or just sucked !
What do Vanguard, Warhammer, Darkfall, or AoC have to do with cash shops?
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
That's not actually true.
In his diabolically demystifying interview, Roper indicated that there would be some items which can only be purchased by the item mall.
That's not actually true.
In his diabolically demystifying interview, Roper indicated that there would be some items which can only be purchased by the item mall.
And he also stated that those items were like the mounts and pets from WoW's trading card game. Look cool but do nothing aka not game changing.
He also stated that currently no game changing items are on the cash shop and if they do go up that those items would be available in game still.
I'm not sure why everyone's QQ'ing over some statless costume peices & ingame statless trinkets. People want to look different and unique and the only way to get that is through a cash shop (it sucks but its true) since everyone and their brother will have the pve / pvp drops.
If the start throwing up End Game Raid or Omega Gear with stats I could see the reasong to QQ but they've already stated thats not going to happen (yes i know we have to take that with a grain of salt, but look at their history with CoH they arent' known for being liars even if Roper is..he's only a face out of a sea of many.)
Lawl @ the over discussed MT post which has been answered 1000 times.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAmbryZealot/
YAY, someone who gets it.
That's not actually true.
In his diabolically demystifying interview, Roper indicated that there would be some items which can only be purchased by the item mall.
And he also stated that those items were like the mounts and pets from WoW's trading card game. Look cool but do nothing aka not game changing.
He also stated that currently no game changing items are on the cash shop and if they do go up that those items would be available in game still.
I'm not sure why everyone's QQ'ing over some statless costume peices & ingame statless trinkets. People want to look different and unique and the only way to get that is through a cash shop (it sucks but its true) since everyone and their brother will have the pve / pvp drops.
If the start throwing up End Game Raid or Omega Gear with stats I could see the reasong to QQ but they've already stated thats not going to happen (yes i know we have to take that with a grain of salt, but look at their history with CoH they arent' known for being liars even if Roper is..he's only a face out of a sea of many.)
If you are paying a full standard monthly fee ALL items should be included in the game you pay for. I dislike what WoW has done with trading cards also, just for you to know there is no favortism here. There are other ways to make more revenue other than ruin video games with real life money transactions for virtual items.
I gave a plausible alternative reality to this statement in this same thread. I would rather have the OPTION to buy a different costume set now then have to wait a year until the expansion is released; and pay for it then.
Maybe they are going with the micro-transaction model because any other way they would not be able to afford to design these new items that will be available in the cash shop.
All I'm saying is that if there wasn't going to be a cash shop, we probably wouldn't be getting the items at all.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
That's not actually true.
In his diabolically demystifying interview, Roper indicated that there would be some items which can only be purchased by the item mall.
And he also stated that those items were like the mounts and pets from WoW's trading card game. Look cool but do nothing aka not game changing.
He also stated that currently no game changing items are on the cash shop and if they do go up that those items would be available in game still.
Yes I know, to your first point. I made the correction in the interest of helping to keep the discussion honest.
And no to your second point - you're misinterpreting one of Bill Roper's trademark vague comments.
So the idea with that would be for something that had an in- game effect. Off the top of my head I don’t know that there’s anything like that on the docket, but I think that might be a good idea to do that, or at least have a place for players to find that information pretty easily. But since that hasn’t really been an issue yet that’s not something we’ve looked at.
He says "I don't know". Now you'd think that a man who was on a mission to demystify an issue which is kicking his baby in the nads would take the time to become informed himself....
And rather than tell us "there aren't currently" or "will never be" game changing items, Cryptic instead tell us:
Any micro-transaction that has a game effect can also be earned in the game through play
That's "has", as in present tense, as in is-currently-in-the-shop.
I gave a plausible alternative reality to this statement in this same thread. I would rather have the OPTION to buy a different costume set now then have to wait a year until the expansion is released; and pay for it then.
Maybe they are going with the micro-transaction model because any other way they would not be able to afford to design these new items that will be available in the cash shop.
All I'm saying is that if there wasn't going to be a cash shop, we probably wouldn't be getting the items at all.
That is where I differ. I would prefer to wait to get any item in a game via game play methods. I don't consider swiping my credit card for items fun in anyway or belonging in a game. I just don't agree with item shops and I most definitely do not agree with subscription plus item shops.
I gave a plausible alternative reality to this statement in this same thread. I would rather have the OPTION to buy a different costume set now then have to wait a year until the expansion is released; and pay for it then.
Maybe they are going with the micro-transaction model because any other way they would not be able to afford to design these new items that will be available in the cash shop.
All I'm saying is that if there wasn't going to be a cash shop, we probably wouldn't be getting the items at all.
That is where I differ. I would prefer to wait to get any item in a game via game play methods. I don't consider swiping my credit card for items fun in anyway or belonging in a game. I just don't agree with item shops and I most definitely do not agree with subscription plus item shops.
While I completely support your opinion, you're still missing my point. You can't get the item in-game if it doens't exist at all.
I don't consider swiping my credit card for items fun either. I never did it in EQ2, never did it in WoW, never did it in CoX, and I doubt I'll ever do it in Champions Online.
That's not going to stop me from playing a perfectly enjoyable game though.
Anyway, difference of opinion and all that. Good luck with your gaming.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I love the idea of microtransactions my favorite mmo of all time was FFXI that game is getting killed by gil/gold sellers. People are doing microtransactions in every game right now its just that gold farmers are making all the profits. What's the diffrence if i go give a gold seller 20$ and by a epic sword of pwnage or if i give it to the developer. The diffrence is if i give it the cryptic they make more money. If the make more money it makes atari happy. If Atari is happy they give cryptic more attention which results in a better game. If i give the money to a gold seller they monopolize spawn points inflate auction house prices grief the chat logs steal accounts then the developer try's to ban them and they end up banning a bunch of innocent people. People are going to buy the items anyways why not do it in the most productive way possible.
I gave a plausible alternative reality to this statement in this same thread. I would rather have the OPTION to buy a different costume set now then have to wait a year until the expansion is released; and pay for it then.
Maybe they are going with the micro-transaction model because any other way they would not be able to afford to design these new items that will be available in the cash shop.
All I'm saying is that if there wasn't going to be a cash shop, we probably wouldn't be getting the items at all.
That is where I differ. I would prefer to wait to get any item in a game via game play methods. I don't consider swiping my credit card for items fun in anyway or belonging in a game. I just don't agree with item shops and I most definitely do not agree with subscription plus item shops.
While I completely support your opinion, you're still missing my point. You can't get the item in-game if it doens't exist at all.
I don't consider swiping my credit card for items fun either. I never did it in EQ2, never did it in WoW, never did it in CoX, and I doubt I'll ever do it in Champions Online.
That's not going to stop me from playing a perfectly enjoyable game though.
Anyway, difference of opinion and all that. Good luck with your gaming.
Thank you, for keeping the conversation civil. Even though we disagree I enjoyed reading your post and opinions.
Here's a scenario where it either effects your gameplay or effects your wallet.
Say there is uber item X, an item that is very useful if you're a healer type person. Now let's say it's pretty hard to get -- not impossible, but pretty hard. Now let's also say you can just buy the item.
Now, let's keep in mind that a ton of people who play mmo's are elitist. Here's the way this will play out.
"Let's go kill monster y! Who wants to come?"
"Oh, I do! I do!!"
"Well, you're a healer right? Do you have uber item X?"
"Oh, not yet. But I have this other item that's pretty close"
"No, we NEED uber item X. Sorry. Why don't you just buy it?"
This is obviously an exaggeration, but you get the point. Situations that are similar, though smaller in scale, occur in mmo's all the time. Is it stupid? Heck yeah. But it still happens. So when you let people acquire items with money, what you end up with is people feeling like they need to buy the objects to be able to do the fun things they want to do. You don't have to, sure. But I am willing to bet (and for that matter, so are the developers, or they wouldn't spend the time creating the cash shop) that you WILL, to save time.
Cash shops are bad because they are rewarding the developers for laziness. If getting uber object X was actually fun, people would WANT to do it. You can make it hard without making it time consuming, but that requires a lot more effort by the developers. Instead, they merely say, "oh, you want this item? Just buy it." Sure, you don't have to. Sure, you could get it through the game. But if anyone buys in-game items for real money it means the gameplay sucks and/or the community pressures people to just buy certain items to save time.
Why can't they just make the game fun and get rid of the cash shop?
P.S. I don't care at all about selling costumes or anything else. I am gullible, so I believe them when they say they wont' add game-changing items (things like str + 50%). But adding in items that you would otherwise have to work for in the game IS game-changing.