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The problem with MMO's, not just Darkfall but all of them.
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Well, what I find fun is the road to the level cap, not the end of the game. It's too bad that modern MMO's are created in a way that makes it look like the game only starts when you get to the end of the journey- I don't want that, but I don't want to take away the journey to become stronger either (if that's what you mean by waiting for 2 months before the real game begins-part)
This guy is an example of an intelligent, thoughtful individual.
He doesn't scream "CAREBAR!!!!!11111" at the sign of "strange and foreign words".
He maturely disagrees, is secure enough to understand every negative word isn't direct at him, and understanding enough to disagree within reason, stating why he enjoys this or that, living in reality, and last but not least reads what I say for what I say, not creating translations just so he can yell "CAREBAR!!!!!!!!!1111"
Props to the only intelligent person here.
(I'd be considered an idiot for posting this in a forum full of idiots, so obviously Hyanmen is the only intelligent one here.)
Wrong.
I play every type of game, RTS, RPG, FPS, Mysstery, Adventure, PnP RPG, Miniature Games, and have for many, many years. At least 11 years if you want the minimum, MMO gaming.
I know what I enjoy, and MMOFPS is definitely not one of them. FPS > MMOFPS for me. Although I do like WWiiOnline a lot.
MMORPG's, I enjoy very much. I simply do not enjoy them for very long, because of core issues like unbalanced populations in PvP, slow advancement from 1-10 because those are tutorial levels, twinks, or lack of PvP.
Please leave it to the individual to know himself more than you.
I don't understand people who think they can read into and understand a person better than they know themselves, based on one post.
What you think is irrelevant, because you have no idea who I am, nor can you (or anyone else) accurately assume very much at all about what I do or do not enjoy. There are many things you don't know, like how I enjoy most MMORPG,s but understand that I would enjoy them infinitely more if they embraced a different concept.
Also, the older I get, the less time I have for gaming. Eventually, MMO's will have to be thrown out- not because I dislike them, but because they require too much time in relation to how much time you actually PLAY the game.
Yes, gear is one of the biggest problems, I agree.
Perhaps even the biggest.
I do like gear though, and I like collecting it and crafting full sets of gear (don't like it as much if it's not a full set, lol)
But I prefer gear the way of Ultima Online. Disposable, unimportant, and advantageous- but not by much.
Only unintelligent people take such melodramatic sides. -Why is it you need to insult anyone who disagree's with you, makes you look, you know melodramatic and unintelligent.
Did it ever occur to you that there isn't just black and white, but a happy medium called grey? - Of course there is, did I say there wasn't? But there's nothing wrong with dealing with the black and white realities that current games present either.
That you don't want to die IRL when you die in game (not black...), but you enjoy challenge (not white...)? No, I don't want to die in RL, in fact, I'm sort of a carebear who tries to avoid dying at all, but I enjoy the challenge of avoiding death and hey, once in awhile I get lucky and kill someone.
I am just going to begin to block anyone who is this melodramatic. It is nothing but unintelligent and narrow-minded to assume the OP is saying "You're a Xbox Jock or a Basement Nerd, there is nothing else!!!!!!!!1111" - Wow, blocked by an 88 post forum member with so little to say. Go ahead, make my day.
Anyone up for normal communicate? I.E. No drastic exagerations of anyone's ideas or subjects? The OP was a drastic exxageration of the current state of MMO's, with everything "sucking", what sort of response did you really expect? You come looking for a good fight, happy to provide one.
I can see some differences of opinions I can agree to disagree with (though I did not comment on any of them, but do think it's fine to have a different opinion) but when it comes to one-sided opinions like basement maschochists who want to literally drink the blood of their PvP victims and cry "CAREBEAR WoW!!!!111" to anything that isn't massive death punishments...no thx. - I think I see the problem. You are a WOW fan who doesn't like people who aren't, and enjoy play styles other than those provided by WOW. Its ok for you to not like more challenging MMO's you know, just don't ask the rest of us to.
Also please don't be so insecure...Just because someone mentions there are vampiric basement masochists, that doesn't mean he thinks anyone here is one. Simply stating that those DO exist, and are a common voice on gaming forums. In fact, forums are a rather niche audience... so the majority of people who post most often are unlikely to be normal... but certainly not the "hardcore" minority. - Oh I assure you, I am far from normal, heck I play MMORPG's and that pretty much says it all. But I'm also not that 'common' either. I don't mind being part of a niche btw, notice, I enjoy playing EVE, but don't think its the game for 'everyone'.
I don't think you're a basement nerd just because you like challenge. In fact, I didn't call anyone here basement nerds... only those who enjoy the idea of massive time sinks, and once again... - You don't seem to recognize when humor is being attempted (granted, it wasn't a great attempt) and I was poking fun more at myself, because I actually am a nerd who enjoys gaming.
Difficult does NOT correlate to Time spent!!!!! - Actually, sometimes it does. Lineage 2 was quite difficult when it first came out, because of the huge amount of time you had to spend to get to the endgame. Other games chose to make themselves difficult by making you camp mob spawns ad nausem, others throw PVP chalelenges at you, and some try to make it hard by putting in more difficult targeting and combat mechanics. All are valid tactics to increase difficulty, but in the end, no game is every difficult in the true sense.
Something can certainly be difficult without causing you to waste 2 hours to accomplish the task at hand. In fact, the most difficult problems can take 5 minutes to solve, and the simplest 50 years to even contemplate.
I can't disagree with you here, but just because a game does cause you to waste 2 hours to accomplish a task doesn't make it a bad game. Just means you don't like it nor want to do it, while others might not mind. Just because you are in the majority doesn't make you any more 'right' than I am.
How often in research and development of ANY type have there been 5 second solutions of the most difficult problem, and an overlooking of the easiest solution which wasn't found for many, many years? -You lost me here.
Not sure what your issues are. You came to a discussion forum, looking for a discussion. Somehow you've taken offense to my response and the means I chose to phrase it. You even went so far as to accuse me of being insecure and unintelligent, neither of which most people who know me (or read my posts on these forums) would agree with.
But what the heck, since you're going to block me, I guess the discussion is over.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Hate to break it to you, but... THIS IS THE INTERNET.
The majority of people on forums misunderstand each other. It's not just me.
I have been on forums of all types for over 10 years, and I see it all the time in threads I don't even post in. I'd randomly say 75% of disagreement on forums is because those who reply don't take the time, don't allow the understanding and respect, or don't have the intelligence (or are under the age of 20-something, and their brains haven't developped fully) to understand what each other write.
Don't assume that just because the majority "misunderstand" it has to be the writer's fault. It could just be that this is the Internet.
Besides, I am not a very good writer on forums. Even though I've written consistently for over 10 years, and before that enjoyed writing in general, that doesn't mean I am skilled enough to make up for the lack of understanding some people have. In fact, that doesn't mean I am very good at all! Some people try their hardest to be clear, and fail even after working at it for a decade. Some people's brains are wired differently, so they leave out some information that normal people require to make successful conclusions. Perhaps also I am jaded by the internet, and I'm presumely frustrated because I've come across more stupidity than water in the ocean, and I can be a bit drastic in my imagery which leads to emotional responses. "If they don't understand, they probably didn't even read it." A large majority of people only SKIM through text, rather than reading it to completion. Sometimes something as small as hitting the wrong emotional button can cause someone who isn't healthy in [this] area of mentality to incite enough rage to blind them of all logic and reasoning, resulting in "CAREBAR!!!!!!11111111"
I don't believe they're unintelligent or stupid... I believe they're lazy and cold-hearted, insecure and aggressive, or perhaps just apathetic and bored. Some are masked trolls, while others obvious mischiefs. It takes a certain amount of kindness, respect, and understanding to stop your animalistic aggression of "I disagree! Grr!" to say to yourself "Wait... what is this person REALLY saying? Maybe I should care enough to read and think about it, and try to see their perspective to understand what they're trying to communicate." and enough grounding in reality to realize there are a lot of weird, stupid, or anti-social people in the world. It's true that some people are basement dwelling vampires, and society doesn't look kindly on them.
Hate to break it to you, but... THIS IS THE INTERNET.
The majority of people on forums misunderstand each other. It's not just me.
I have been on forums of all types for over 10 years, and I see it all the time in threads I don't even post in. I'd randomly say 75% of disagreement on forums is because those who reply don't take the time, don't allow the understanding and respect, or don't have the intelligence (or are under the age of 20-something, and their brains haven't developped fully) to understand what each other write.
Don't assume that just because the majority "misunderstand" it has to be the writer's fault. It could just be that this is the Internet.
Besides, I am not a very good writer on forums. Even though I've written consistently for over 10 years, and before that enjoyed writing in general, that doesn't mean I am skilled enough to make up for the lack of understanding some people have. In fact, that doesn't mean I am very good at all! Some people try their hardest to be clear, and fail even after working at it for a decade. Some people's brains are wired differently, so they leave out some information that normal people require to make successful conclusions. Perhaps also I am jaded by the internet, and I'm presumely frustrated because I've come across more stupidity than water in the ocean, and I can be a bit drastic in my imagery which leads to emotional responses. "If they don't understand, they probably didn't even read it." A large majority of people only SKIM through text, rather than reading it to completion. Sometimes something as small as hitting the wrong emotional button can cause someone who isn't healthy in [this] area of mentality to incite enough rage to blind them of all logic and reasoning, resulting in "CAREBAR!!!!!!11111111"
I don't believe they're unintelligent or stupid... I believe they're lazy and cold-hearted, insecure and aggressive, or perhaps just apathetic and bored. Some are masked trolls, while others obvious mischiefs. It takes a certain amount of kindness, respect, and understanding to stop your animalistic aggression of "I disagree! Grr!" to say to yourself "Wait... what is this person REALLY saying? Maybe I should care enough to read and think about it, and try to see their perspective to understand what they're trying to communicate." and enough grounding in reality to realize there are a lot of weird, stupid, or anti-social people in the world. It's true that some people are basement dwelling vampires, and society doesn't look kindly on them.
grats , you are the best troll i read this year
or the most retarded forum poster
dude get down from your high horse , get a life , and stop posting . Seriously . You have issues , you cant refrain from insults at all . Ever looked in the mirror? I`m having hard issues believing you`re more then 15yo , a frustrated 15yo projecting here on these forums
Again : I probably love anything you hate about a game , and hate anything you love about it . That`s perfectly fine , there are niche games out there for everyone (more or less) . Find yours and STAY THE HELL THERE !
You got ganked in DF...so what?
Niche games are the future , if you dont like it , dont play it .
Hate to break it to you, but... THIS IS THE INTERNET. AND
THE INTERNET IS SERIOUS BUSINESS!The majority of people on forums misunderstand each other. It's not just me. No it's just you. (at least in this thread)
I have been on forums of all types for over 10 years, and I see it all the time in threads I don't even post in. I'd randomly say 75% of disagreement on forums is because those who reply don't take the time, don't allow the understanding and respect, or don't have the intelligence (or are under the age of 20-something, and their brains haven't developped fully) to understand what each other write. Whoopty doo. Throwing usless credentail that don't mean anything to anyone. People are disagreeing with you because you stating your opinion that despite what you think, is not what the majority thinks.
Don't assume that just because the majority "misunderstand" it has to be the writer's fault. It could just be that this is the Internet. You think the majority misunderstands you but in reality they are dissagreeing with you, and so you think they are confused and unintelligent.
Besides, I am not a very good writer on forums. That's an understatement Even though I've written consistently for over 10 years No one cares, and before that enjoyed writing in general, that doesn't mean I am skilled enough to make up for the lack of understanding some people have. Yes it does In fact, that doesn't mean I am very good at all! Some people try their hardest to be clear, and fail even after working at it for a decade. Some people's brains are wired differently, so they leave out some information that normal people require to make successful conclusions. And Perhaps also I am jaded by the internet, and I'm presumely frustrated because I've come across more stupidity than water in the ocean and your poseiden, and I can be a bit drastic in my imagery which leads to emotional responses. "If they don't understand, they probably didn't even read it." A large majority of people only SKIM through text, rather than reading it to completion. Or so you think Sometimes something as small as hitting the wrong emotional button can cause someone who isn't healthy in [this] area of mentality to incite enough rage to blind them of all logic and reasoning, resulting in "CAREBAR!!!!!!11111111" Then why try? If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all. Most importantly: Don't dish it out if you can't take it.
I don't believe they're unintelligent or stupid Yes you do, you said so yourself... I believe they're lazy and cold-hearted, insecure and aggressive, or perhaps just apathetic and bored. You suck at judging peoples personalitiesSome are masked trolls Is that a clue to your posts?, while others obvious mischiefs. It takes a certain amount of kindness, respect, and understanding to stop your animalistic aggression of "I disagree! Grr!" to say to yourself "Wait... what is this person REALLY saying? Try that yourself some times. Maybe I should care enough to read and think about it, and try to see their perspective to understand what they're trying to communicate." and enough grounding in reality to realize there are a lot of weird, stupid, or anti-social people in the world. It's true that some people are basement dwelling vampires, and society doesn't look kindly on them.
No one has said anything that should have upset you (except me now). I've read all the posts in this thread (wasn't hard only 2 pages) and I have to say you've been the only one calling people unintelligent and other lame names. Take a step back and reread your posts and understand.
You're being a dick.
I agree with your rant in general Heliosa. Many mmos can be fun but they all seem to be bogged down with a lot of crap as well which can make them become very boring quite rapidly. In virtually all of them you have to grind your way through very tedious timesinks to reach more interesting parts of the game. They basicly reward a player for their ability to endure boredom. It can also be very time consuming organising people to take part in the pre-scripted "dungeons" (or any parts that require a group)in these games, partly because you often dont know the people you are playing with and also because everyone is at a different stage in the "story". You will all be different levels to each other, have different quests to do and.....yeah its just a mess really. This is what happens when games developers take single player roleplaying games and dump them on a server for lots of people to play simultaneously. Its inevitable really.
However it seems to me as though you contradict yourself with some of your comments a little bit. You made a reference to console games being easier to jump into and have fun straight away, where you dont have to dedicate hours, days, weeks or months of your life to grinding through boring content to reach exciting parts. I assume you are referring to the online aspect of console games. Console games allow you to jump straight into the action and compete with other players.....but they also miss the story & character building elements that we get from mmos......even though the stories are shit in most of them anyway lol.
Yet when someone mentions Planetside that is actually an mmo (yes it IS an mmo) that lets you jump straight into the action and doesnt force you to grind through stuff to reach "the fun bit" (a subjective thing anyway), you complain that its an mmofps and not an mmorpg. Hmmm.
Perhaps you need to state what the "FULL REAL GAME" is to you in more detail. From what you have said so far it seems to me that the "fun bit" in your mind is the part where there is lots of action taking place. This generally occurs in pvp battles, where you have to constantly be on your toes as you deal with real living & breathing human beings rather than scripted computer opponents that are always predictable. This action can occur in big pve battles too. You seem to like the fact that console players dont have to jump through lots of boring hoops to get to this "fun bit". However console games achieve this by skipping the story element which we are accustomed to seeing in mmorpgs. They also have computer opponents with better AI that dont just simply wander around aimlessly or stand still until you walk into their aggro radius and as a result the gameplay is a lt more active and involving......but then console games dont have potentially hundreds of players to deal with in the same place. They still create the illusion of a world though. Rpgs could actually do this as well.
The thing about roleplaying games is that they DONT have to have a pre-scripted story to be a roleplaying game, which is what every mmo seems to keep going for and so many people keep tripping up on. Pre-scripted stories remove the players ability to choose what they want to do. They are FORCED to follow the story from the beginning to the end. The thing is in REAL pen & paper roleplaying games there is no story as such other than the one that the players themselves make up through the choices they make. There is a WORLD that reacts to their choices but if the GM is good at running the game then he wont FORCE a story on the players. He will allow them to dictate what happens.
Unfortunately most mmos are modeled straight off single player games where the players just dont have this freedom. So if you dont like jumping through the hoops and reading the stories that the devs have planned for you then you're stumped. Mmos will continue to change though. Already we are seeing more variety in the style of gameplay in upcoming games such as Global Agenda. In that game it looks like you will be able to jump straight into the action and the outcome of battles will have an effect on the overall gameworld. So you wont have to follow a scripted path, you will have world changing goals to work towards, you will be able to get that sense of personal progress as your character evolves and the gameplay will be action packed and fun like a console game......plus you will be playing the game with shit loads of other players. That to me sounds like the kind of thing you are looking for.......but then I suppose you will still complain about it because "its an mmofps and not an mmorpg blah blah blah" even though it actually does have plenty of rpg elements in it. A lot of people even cry about it not being an mmo simply because it relies on instances rather than copying what all the other mmos do with their zoned static lifeless illusions of gameworlds. The fact that the game might actually be a lot of fun to play seems to be a moot point to many. The silly thing is that if the game was actually in a big open free-roaming game world then everyone would just complain about the pvp not being balanced. No-one is ever happy lol.
There are plenty of other mmos on the horizon though. Thats the great thing really. There is always something new coming along.
I personally prefer more complicated MMOs. They keep immature people from ruining the over gaming experience. That's what I liked about Anarch Online and Eve. Asheron's Call wasn't complicated, it was just marketed inappropriately.
Right now, I'm playing FFXI. It has a steep learning curve and you'll find yourself grinding through the same levels over and over again because that's in the game's design. Most people find it boring. I don't, I enjoy the social interactions during the "grinding" process. Due to the slower combat system, I find it a lot easier to have deeper conversations with the players than in say WoW where you're constantly progressing toward the ultimate goal of a dungeon.
I don't mind that a lot of people come to our forums and post that they dislike the game for X, Y, and Z reasons. It actually chases those people away who would also have a problem with that.
That's something I didn't like about WoW.
There were a lot of players who would kill steal, didn't understand how to play effectively, or were just annoying (ie: shouting in town random non-sense). Yes, there was an exception, but I just didn't like it. There was too much of this nonsense. In addition, I lost the whole MMO experience in WoW because its solo friendly and could be beaten through to top levels with great ease and all Blizzard has done is make it even easier by reducing the XP requirements for each level.
Also, the online community is not as tolerant or friendly as FFXI. If you go to a WoW community and say "I don't like WoW for X, Y, and Z reasons" you WILL get flamed. This isn't a question of if it'll happen, it's a question of how fast can someone click the reply button and say "You suck newb, get off our turf." That's another reason that I am so displeased with the WoW community. A community should be just that, a community with supporting individuals. You can't build a community based on intolerance.
And there's my two cents.
Let it be known that I hate WoW with a passion and will defend almost any MMORPG against it.
Current: FFXI (PC/360)
Want: FFXIV, Stargate Worlds, Star Trek Online
Past: AC, AoC, AO, Atlantica Online, CoH/V, DAoC, Dungeon Runners, D&DO, EVE, Everquest I+II, FlyFF, GW (all), Lineage 2, LOTRO, Mabinogi, Maplestory, PSO (DC/Xbox/PC), PSU (PC/360), PlanetSide, RO, Shadowbane, SWG (Pre-NGE), SotNW, TR, UO, Warhammer Online, WoW, WWIIO
The problem is some people want PvP games with some degree of RPG style progression. However they want much less of it than the people who just like RPG games so they play the PvE games but don't enjoy it. WAR, AoC, Aion and many of the F2P games all try to compromise between the PvE and PvP and end up (or will probably end up) not really pleasing either side. WoW does better by coming down clearly on the PvE side being dominant but no doubt the PvP angle causes problems there too.
There should be harsh "clanbox" style PvP games.
There should be more casual PvP games with progression but where all the progression comes from PvP.
There should be PvE games.
If the games were split into those three categories (four if you included pure FPS with no RPG elements) then there'd be a lot less whining on game forums.
The only people who'd be left out are those who want progression and gear-based based PvP but where they were max levelled and geared from the beginning while everyone else was stuck at level one and armed with a rusty toothpick and they could spend all day safely slaughtering everyone. There's no way to please them.
QQ More newbcakes
Darkfall Owns
EVE used to own pre-exodus
Shadowbane used to own
and UO used to own pre-trammel
wow sucks
daoc owned till toa
eq owned till sol
AC1 used to own aswell
you may not like Darkfall because it doesn't feed you with a spoon like your mom does, but it's a damn satisfying game to play when you get into it, same goes for EVE or Shadowbane or UO
or basically any mmo out there
but that doesn't make wow a good game
I say grow a pair and stop crying cause you get pk'd and do something about it
Amazing...I feel the EXACT opposite about some of these points. I guess a lot of it has to do with how you define fun. Also please get off of the "copy of WoW" thing because WoW itself is a copy of other games, and a poor copy I might add. And where did "winning" become a part of MMO's. I don't play an MMO to "win" anything, it's about the experience
I will agree that when grinding becomes primary function, fun is lost.
Playing EVE online currently. Started MMO's with EQ Velious, played EQ2, DAoC, CoH, AO, SWG (pre NGE), Planetside, DCUO. Played briefly cause I didn't like: WAR, WoW, VG, etc. etc.