Yes LoTR is such an under performer..its servers have closed and no expansions have ever been made. Load of tosh Green and you know it. Lord of the Rings was never meant to be the next coming with millions of subscribers. Any dev worth their salt shoots for a game to need 100 to 300k to break even and start making profit. Lord of the Rings did this. Its also met more than enough expectations for large amounts of development time to constantly be put into the game. Games that 'fail' or seriously under perform end up getting closed or sweeped up by SOE in an attempt to save it. A life time sub for someone who is enjoying the game even its beta state is actually a rather large boon for the customer only. Just think if WoW had a life time sub with in its first year of launch there'd be tons of people tons and TONS of people who'd sweep it up because they love WoW. But Bliz is a bunch of money grubbing jackels (come on we all know its true why else does the price on their game never drop despite being way into the profit zone). Straw grasping is really sad seriously. We get it your not interested for X reasons and thats not going to change..but your being delusional in inserting that your the only opinino that matters and that your opinion is fact. Its not fact its your perception of the situation and thats pretty much it. BTW anyone who bought into Hell Gate London deserved what they got. Seriously an instanced Single player game with multiplayer features you have to pay for? Come on....that was just asking for a kick in the pants. Hellgate London was never an MMO it was a twisted cruel experiment at making you pay for Diablo with a sci fish skin.
And the straw man arguments continue.... Super weak.
Turbine publicly predicted that they would net themselves over a million subscribers. That's a well-known fact.
Turbine didn't get anywhere near that number of subscribers. That's another well-known fact.
Turbine offered a lifetime subscription only after failing to meet their own expectations. That's a third well-known fact.
Wait... so when I pre-ordered LOTRO they already predicted that their prediction would fail?
And the straw man arguments continue.... Super weak. Turbine publicly predicted that they would net themselves over a million subscribers. That's a well-known fact. Turbine didn't get anywhere near that number of subscribers. That's another well-known fact. Turbine offered a lifetime subscription only after failing to meet their own expectations. That's a third well-known fact.
Wait... so when I pre-ordered LOTRO they already predicted that their prediction would fail?
Yea..... I hope you realize that Turbine originally offered their lifetime subscription just like Cryptic, before the game was even released to those that preordered.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
And the straw man arguments continue.... Super weak. Turbine publicly predicted that they would net themselves over a million subscribers. That's a well-known fact. Turbine didn't get anywhere near that number of subscribers. That's another well-known fact. Turbine offered a lifetime subscription only after failing to meet their own expectations. That's a third well-known fact.
Wait... so when I pre-ordered LOTRO they already predicted that their prediction would fail?
Yea..... I hope you realize that Turbine originally offered their lifetime subscription just like Cryptic, before the game was even released to those that preordered.
And then this supposedly limited offer was opened up to everyone else, but only after launch. It launched on April 24 2007. Best date I can put on the lifetime sub is early July 2007, by which time they had spectacularly failed to meet their publicised goal of over a million subscribers.
But yes, they probably also had a very good indication of box sales and subscriptions prior to launch. They'd have pre-order sales as a good indicator of those.
And the straw man arguments continue.... Super weak. Turbine publicly predicted that they would net themselves over a million subscribers. That's a well-known fact. Turbine didn't get anywhere near that number of subscribers. That's another well-known fact. Turbine offered a lifetime subscription only after failing to meet their own expectations. That's a third well-known fact.
Wait... so when I pre-ordered LOTRO they already predicted that their prediction would fail?
Yea..... I hope you realize that Turbine originally offered their lifetime subscription just like Cryptic, before the game was even released to those that preordered.
And then this supposedly limited offer was opened up to everyone else, but only after launch.
Ok? So did you just agree that you were wrong? You said they offered the lifetime subscription only after failing to meet their expectations. But that is false.
It launched on April 24 2007. Best date I can put on the lifetime sub is early July 2007, by which time they had spectacularly failed to meet their publicised goal of over a million subscribers.
Yea, either that, or there was a lot of community support for offering the lifetime subscription to all the players. By the way, Codemasters lofty predictions for the game in no way reflect what Turbine was expecting.
But yes, they probably also had a very good indication of box sales and subscriptions prior to launch. They'd have pre-order sales as a good indicator of those.
The lifetime subscription price was announced at the exact same time the pre-orders were available. So, no, they didn't have pre-order sales to indicate anything.
I'm not going to try and speculate on the reasons Turbine offered the lifetime subscription, but you should get your facts straight before you start throwing around unfounded remarks.
So do Cryptic.
Pre-orders just became available, what, last week? You think they didn't already have this subscription model planned and instead thought, "OMG we didn't sell 70k preorders, hurry and offer the lifetime subscriptions!"
Give me a break.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Ummm...preorders have been available for some time now, at least several weeks. They didn't just start last week.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
Generally, lifetime subscriptions and chunk subscription offers this early means only one thing.
The company offering it needs a huge influx of money now.
That is why Turbine did it, and chances are that's why Cryptic is doing it.
This.
How many times has Turbine offered Lifetime subs? I'm thinking 2, plus the initial pre-release offer. They seem to offer them, along with the special 9.99 monthly rate, when they are on the verge of pushing out a major expansion. I bought one, but I'm not motivated enough to play much anymore.
As one person commented so well, once the developer has your money, you have no way to influence the direction of the game. Mark Jacobs is an arrogant ass, but he was fundamentally correct when he blurted on these forums that if you don't like the direction the game is going, let the developers know with your credit card. Lifetime subscriptions are designed for blind, devoted fans. I'm not a fan, I'm a customer and I expect value for my money. In Cryptic's case, I'm not much interested in buying just part of the game.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
And the straw man arguments continue.... Super weak. Turbine publicly predicted that they would net themselves over a million subscribers. That's a well-known fact. Turbine didn't get anywhere near that number of subscribers. That's another well-known fact. Turbine offered a lifetime subscription only after failing to meet their own expectations. That's a third well-known fact.
Wait... so when I pre-ordered LOTRO they already predicted that their prediction would fail?
Yea..... I hope you realize that Turbine originally offered their lifetime subscription just like Cryptic, before the game was even released to those that preordered.
And then this supposedly limited offer was opened up to everyone else, but only after launch. It launched on April 24 2007. Best date I can put on the lifetime sub is early July 2007, by which time they had spectacularly failed to meet their publicised goal of over a million subscribers.
But yes, they probably also had a very good indication of box sales and subscriptions prior to launch. They'd have pre-order sales as a good indicator of those.
So do Cryptic.
You may be right about speculating they are trying for an infusion of cash to offset being incorrect in their projections. It is a possible theory. You are incorrect about the LOTRO life time sub. It was available to those in beta who had pre-ordered and were founders at Launch.
Anyway, sounds like you are well prepared for it to fail so why bother commenting anyway. All I have seen points to this being a pretty solid title and I hope it is. If it is what I think it will be and Cryptic is being reasonable with the thoughts of their sub base, it should do fine and I hope it does.
You may be right about speculating they are trying for an infusion of cash to offset being incorrect in their projections. It is a possible theory. You are incorrect about the LOTRO life time sub. It was available to those in beta who had pre-ordered and were founders at Launch.
I began testing Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar in November of 2006. The only indisputable fact I know of is that there are no indisputable facts; however, dougmysticey's post is quite verifiable.
get experience for the launch of Aion EU and NA servers, and WIN !!!! Enjoy the lowest Kina and experience various items. 1M=1.79 US, for more detials, pls visit http://wangxiaoshuo.com/tj/?id=2&tid=3
get experience for the launch of Aion EU and NA servers, and WIN !!!! Enjoy the lowest Kina and experience various items. 1M=1.79 US, for more detials, pls visit http://wangxiaoshuo.com/tj/?id=2&tid=3
And the straw man arguments continue.... Super weak. Turbine publicly predicted that they would net themselves over a million subscribers. That's a well-known fact. Turbine didn't get anywhere near that number of subscribers. That's another well-known fact. Turbine offered a lifetime subscription only after failing to meet their own expectations. That's a third well-known fact.
Wait... so when I pre-ordered LOTRO they already predicted that their prediction would fail?
Yea..... I hope you realize that Turbine originally offered their lifetime subscription just like Cryptic, before the game was even released to those that preordered.
And then this supposedly limited offer was opened up to everyone else, but only after launch.
Ok? So did you just agree that you were wrong? You said they offered the lifetime subscription only after failing to meet their expectations. But that is false.
It launched on April 24 2007. Best date I can put on the lifetime sub is early July 2007, by which time they had spectacularly failed to meet their publicised goal of over a million subscribers.
Yea, either that, or there was a lot of community support for offering the lifetime subscription to all the players. By the way, Codemasters lofty predictions for the game in no way reflect what Turbine was expecting.
But yes, they probably also had a very good indication of box sales and subscriptions prior to launch. They'd have pre-order sales as a good indicator of those.
The lifetime subscription price was announced at the exact same time the pre-orders were available. So, no, they didn't have pre-order sales to indicate anything.
I'm not going to try and speculate on the reasons Turbine offered the lifetime subscription, but you should get your facts straight before you start throwing around unfounded remarks.
So do Cryptic.
Pre-orders just became available, what, last week? You think they didn't already have this subscription model planned and instead thought, "OMG we didn't sell 70k preorders, hurry and offer the lifetime subscriptions!"
Give me a break.
Codemasters publicly boasting that they were expecting 1 million subscribers wasn't just some fluff statement.
How many open player beta players did LOTRO have? That is, how much server resources did they have prepared for the game's launch?
And you think CO pre-orders only became available last week? They've been selling them for months. But they've only come out with this lifetime subscription just now....
An mmo developer borrows money from lenders or they have investors to develop a game. They predict that they will sell A boxes at B cost to give C profit. So they expect to be able to give D amount of money back to their lenders or investors post launch.
The reason most mmos don't offer lifetime subscriptions is they're generally going to be a bad deal for them. People who love the game enough to shell out that much money would otherwise, over time, spend more on subscriptions.
For a developer, the reason to offer a lifetime subscription is if you eg. know that from pre-order sales that you're not going to meet that immediate C profit target.
LOTRO is a well-known example.
And there's Hellgate London...
Like I've said, I've nothing against lifetime subs - there are mmos I've played where I would have leapt on a lifetime sub offer. But they've generally been popular games that have met or exceeded or their targets, so have had no interest in doing something that would lose them money in the long run.
Of course, CO doesn't need to worry about that, though - they have a handy dandy item mall to fall back on.....
Codemasters publicly boasting that they were expecting 1 million subscribers wasn't just some fluff statement. How many open player beta players did LOTRO have? That is, how much server resources did they have prepared for the game's launch? The magic number is again 1 million. And you think CO pre-orders only became available last week? They've been selling them for months. But they've only come out with this lifetime subscription just now.... An mmo developer borrows money from lenders or they have investors to develop a game. They predict that they will sell A boxes at B cost to give C profit. So they expect to be able to give D amount of money back to their lenders or investors post launch. The reason most mmos don't offer lifetime subscriptions is they're generally going to be a bad deal for them. People who love the game enough to shell out that much money would otherwise, over time, spend more on subscriptions. For a developer, the reason to offer a lifetime subscription is if you eg. know that from pre-order sales that you're not going to meet that immediate C profit target. LOTRO is a well-known example. And there's Hellgate London... Like I've said, I've nothing against lifetime subs - there are mmos I've played where I would have leapt on a lifetime sub offer. But they've generally been popular games that have met or exceeded or their targets, so have had no interest in doing something that would lose them money in the long run. Of course, CO doesn't need to worry about that, though - they have a handy dandy item mall to fall back on.....
It's not because they are invinting 1 million people to OB that means they said they were expecting 1 million subscriber.
Here a link to the preorder announcement on July 24 2009, less than 2 weeks ago.
Codemasters publicly boasting that they were expecting 1 million subscribers wasn't just some fluff statement. How many open player beta players did LOTRO have? That is, how much server resources did they have prepared for the game's launch? The magic number is again 1 million. And you think CO pre-orders only became available last week? They've been selling them for months. But they've only come out with this lifetime subscription just now.... An mmo developer borrows money from lenders or they have investors to develop a game. They predict that they will sell A boxes at B cost to give C profit. So they expect to be able to give D amount of money back to their lenders or investors post launch. The reason most mmos don't offer lifetime subscriptions is they're generally going to be a bad deal for them. People who love the game enough to shell out that much money would otherwise, over time, spend more on subscriptions. For a developer, the reason to offer a lifetime subscription is if you eg. know that from pre-order sales that you're not going to meet that immediate C profit target. LOTRO is a well-known example. And there's Hellgate London... Like I've said, I've nothing against lifetime subs - there are mmos I've played where I would have leapt on a lifetime sub offer. But they've generally been popular games that have met or exceeded or their targets, so have had no interest in doing something that would lose them money in the long run. Of course, CO doesn't need to worry about that, though - they have a handy dandy item mall to fall back on.....
It's not because they are invinting 1 million people to OB that means they said they were expecting 1 million subscriber.
Here a link to the preorder announcement on July 24 2009, less than 2 weeks ago.
I say, maybe you should stop posting your Facts because you look more and more like a fool.
Also, why do you care so much about who is going to pay and play since you obviously won't do neither?
Um yes, but the game's publishers said they were expecting 1 million subscribers (article).
So if they publicly say they're expecting 1 million subscribers and they have server resources ready for 1 million subscribers which we know because they invited 1 million subscribers into the open beta - isn't the logical conclusion that.... they expect 1 million subscribers?
And not to put too fine a point on it - but pre-orders HAVE been available for months. Just because Cryptic - who really aren't the best communicators - only put this announcement out two weeks ago doesn't mean that's when pre-orders became available.
Go check the official CO forums, or even these ones. People have talking about microtransactions for months now - and how did we know about those?
a beta previewer reported seeing the item mall
people could see the Cryptic Bucks as part of the pre-order deal - which has been available for months
Codemasters publicly boasting that they were expecting 1 million subscribers wasn't just some fluff statement. How many open player beta players did LOTRO have? That is, how much server resources did they have prepared for the game's launch? The magic number is again 1 million. And you think CO pre-orders only became available last week? They've been selling them for months. But they've only come out with this lifetime subscription just now.... An mmo developer borrows money from lenders or they have investors to develop a game. They predict that they will sell A boxes at B cost to give C profit. So they expect to be able to give D amount of money back to their lenders or investors post launch. The reason most mmos don't offer lifetime subscriptions is they're generally going to be a bad deal for them. People who love the game enough to shell out that much money would otherwise, over time, spend more on subscriptions. For a developer, the reason to offer a lifetime subscription is if you eg. know that from pre-order sales that you're not going to meet that immediate C profit target. LOTRO is a well-known example. And there's Hellgate London... Like I've said, I've nothing against lifetime subs - there are mmos I've played where I would have leapt on a lifetime sub offer. But they've generally been popular games that have met or exceeded or their targets, so have had no interest in doing something that would lose them money in the long run. Of course, CO doesn't need to worry about that, though - they have a handy dandy item mall to fall back on.....
It's not because they are invinting 1 million people to OB that means they said they were expecting 1 million subscriber.
Here a link to the preorder announcement on July 24 2009, less than 2 weeks ago.
I say, maybe you should stop posting your Facts because you look more and more like a fool.
Also, why do you care so much about who is going to pay and play since you obviously won't do neither?
Um yes, but the game's publishers said they were expecting 1 million subscribers (article).
So if they publicly say they're expecting 1 million subscribers and they have server resources ready for 1 million subscribers which we know because they invited 1 million subscribers into the open beta - isn't the logical conclusion that.... they expect 1 million subscribers?
And not to put too fine a point on it - but pre-orders HAVE been available for months. Just because Cryptic - who really aren't the best communicators - only put this announcement out two weeks ago doesn't mean that's when pre-orders became available.
Go check the official CO forums, or even these ones. People have talking about microtransactions for months now - and how did we know about those?
a beta previewer reported seeing the item mall
people could see the Cryptic Bucks as part of the pre-order deal - which has been available for months
Who cares? why dont you stop your lil forum crusade its pretty pethetic. if you dont want to play then dont. no one cares if you do or not.
it all comes down to will Co have alasting appeal or will it be boring. so far its fun. more os than most mmos that have come out recently
Originally posted by downtoearth Who cares? why dont you stop your lil forum crusade its pretty pethetic. if you dont want to play then dont. no one cares if you do or not
You may not have noticed, but this is mmorpg.com, not championsonline.com.
So you can take your invitation to leave the forums and microtransact it.
I'm sorry you can't argue against my point - because I'm right - but asking someone to leave because you can't deal with uncomfortable facts ain't gonna work.
These forums serve two primary functions:
discussion of mmos
as a consumer resource
Champions Online is doing some weird stuff - so it makes for good discussion. There's fascination factor with watching a train-wreck in motion.
I also think Cryptic's approach to its potential customers is shifty. If they started dealing honestly with their potential customers, I'd have very little to say about Champions Online.
Codemasters publicly boasting that they were expecting 1 million subscribers wasn't just some fluff statement. How many open player beta players did LOTRO have? That is, how much server resources did they have prepared for the game's launch? The magic number is again 1 million. And you think CO pre-orders only became available last week? They've been selling them for months. But they've only come out with this lifetime subscription just now.... An mmo developer borrows money from lenders or they have investors to develop a game. They predict that they will sell A boxes at B cost to give C profit. So they expect to be able to give D amount of money back to their lenders or investors post launch. The reason most mmos don't offer lifetime subscriptions is they're generally going to be a bad deal for them. People who love the game enough to shell out that much money would otherwise, over time, spend more on subscriptions. For a developer, the reason to offer a lifetime subscription is if you eg. know that from pre-order sales that you're not going to meet that immediate C profit target. LOTRO is a well-known example. And there's Hellgate London... Like I've said, I've nothing against lifetime subs - there are mmos I've played where I would have leapt on a lifetime sub offer. But they've generally been popular games that have met or exceeded or their targets, so have had no interest in doing something that would lose them money in the long run. Of course, CO doesn't need to worry about that, though - they have a handy dandy item mall to fall back on.....
It's not because they are invinting 1 million people to OB that means they said they were expecting 1 million subscriber.
Here a link to the preorder announcement on July 24 2009, less than 2 weeks ago.
I say, maybe you should stop posting your Facts because you look more and more like a fool.
Also, why do you care so much about who is going to pay and play since you obviously won't do neither?
Um yes, but the game's publishers said they were expecting 1 million subscribers (article).
So if they publicly say they're expecting 1 million subscribers and they have server resources ready for 1 million subscribers which we know because they invited 1 million subscribers into the open beta - isn't the logical conclusion that.... they expect 1 million subscribers?
And not to put too fine a point on it - but pre-orders HAVE been available for months. Just because Cryptic - who really aren't the best communicators - only put this announcement out two weeks ago doesn't mean that's when pre-orders became available.
Go check the official CO forums, or even these ones. People have talking about microtransactions for months now - and how did we know about those?
a beta previewer reported seeing the item mall True
people could see the Cryptic Bucks as part of the pre-order deal - which has been available for months Not true
Preorder hasn't been available for months, the first one was gamestop couple weeks ago and they showed the Cryptic Bucks and later that week they announce all preorder.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
Originally posted by downtoearth Who cares? why dont you stop your lil forum crusade its pretty pethetic. if you dont want to play then dont. no one cares if you do or not
You may not have noticed, but this is mmorpg.com, not championsonline.com.
So you can take your invitation to leave the forums and microtransact it.
I'm sorry you can't argue against my point - because I'm right - but asking someone to leave because you can't deal with uncomfortable facts ain't gonna work.
These forums serve two primary functions:
discussion of mmos
as a consumer resource
Champions Online is doing some weird stuff - so it makes for good discussion. There's fascination factor with watching a train-wreck in motion.
I also think Cryptic's approach to its potential customers is shifty. If they started dealing honestly with their potential customers, I'd have very little to say about Champions Online.
We did prove you wrong with you facts, but you still blindly believe them. The reason why we say you should move on is, you don't bring anything new, always the same broken record, LOTRO this, Hellgate that, did I mention this about LoTRO, yeah I think I did, but lets say it again just ro make sure, Oh! Just though about something new, Hellgate close down.....no, no, wait, ya brainfart, I said that already. But you guys didn't know about the 1 million subscr......Yes you do, why? Right I said it multiple times.
It doesn't matter if it is mmorpg.com or championsonline.com, You're not welcome here anymore, not because we can't argue against you, but because we can't argue with you, it's that simple.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
Originally posted by downtoearth Who cares? why dont you stop your lil forum crusade its pretty pethetic. if you dont want to play then dont. no one cares if you do or not
You may not have noticed, but this is mmorpg.com, not championsonline.com.
So you can take your invitation to leave the forums and microtransact it.
I'm sorry you can't argue against my point - because I'm right - but asking someone to leave because you can't deal with uncomfortable facts ain't gonna work.
These forums serve two primary functions:
discussion of mmos
as a consumer resource
Champions Online is doing some weird stuff - so it makes for good discussion. There's fascination factor with watching a train-wreck in motion.
I also think Cryptic's approach to its potential customers is shifty. If they started dealing honestly with their potential customers, I'd have very little to say about Champions Online.
We did prove you wrong with you facts, but you still blindly believe them. The reason why we say you should move on is, you don't bring anything new, always the same broken record, LOTRO this, Hellgate that, did I mention this about LoTRO, yeah I think I did, but lets say it again just ro make sure, Oh! Just though about something new, Hellgate close down.....no, no, wait, ya brainfart, I said that already. But you guys didn't know about the 1 million subscr......Yes you do, why? Right I said it multiple times.
It doesn't matter if it is mmorpg.com or championsonline.com, You're not welcome here anymore, not because we can't argue against you, but because we can't argue with you, it's that simple.
Give this man a star. QFT
There's nothing to add regarding this topic and I actually have some grievances with Flagship Studios/Namco Bandai/EA regarding HGL (I own 3 CEs of HGL) but there's such a thing as a limit. I got NOTHING against Bill after I read his blog about Flagship Studios and why it was shutdown.
I'm buying Champions Online because of Cryptic Studios, I played CoX and I was floored by how professional Cryptic ran that game. So please stop blabbing about Bill Roper that and LOTRO that, its just white noise right now. The more negative you try to be, the more trollish you look. I could care LESS about RMT.
Ya greenie is a bit of a putz but you people have to look on the bright side AION is coming out soon and so hopefully his broken-record self should become preoccupied.
That is until he realizes what a shallow and boring experience AION offers. But hey...he'll be out of our hair.
Everyone who pre-ordered will know if this is godo or not before it goes retail. Anyone else who wants to will also get into open beta. So anyone who might be interested in lifetime sub can easily find out if it is worth it. I assume that at least those who pre-ordered willk always have the option to purchase a lifetime sub.
Everyone who preordered will know if the beginning of the game is good or not before launch. We won't have a clue about its staying power yet.
I remember AoC, where my guild had a blast for the first couple months before the horrible later game became apparent. Then there was WAR, which wasn't as bad but still didn't have enough staying power to keep us. It's just two big of a gamble to make such decisions with only two weeks of play to decide with.
IF I enjoy the open beta for the two weeks, I may decide to buy a six month subscription. Odds are good that the lifetime sub won't disappear after September 1. They'd be crazy to do that. It's only the extra perks that will be taken off the table.
Codemasters publicly boasting that they were expecting 1 million subscribers wasn't just some fluff statement. How many open player beta players did LOTRO have? That is, how much server resources did they have prepared for the game's launch? The magic number is again 1 million. And you think CO pre-orders only became available last week? They've been selling them for months. But they've only come out with this lifetime subscription just now.... An mmo developer borrows money from lenders or they have investors to develop a game. They predict that they will sell A boxes at B cost to give C profit. So they expect to be able to give D amount of money back to their lenders or investors post launch. The reason most mmos don't offer lifetime subscriptions is they're generally going to be a bad deal for them. People who love the game enough to shell out that much money would otherwise, over time, spend more on subscriptions. For a developer, the reason to offer a lifetime subscription is if you eg. know that from pre-order sales that you're not going to meet that immediate C profit target. LOTRO is a well-known example. And there's Hellgate London... Like I've said, I've nothing against lifetime subs - there are mmos I've played where I would have leapt on a lifetime sub offer. But they've generally been popular games that have met or exceeded or their targets, so have had no interest in doing something that would lose them money in the long run. Of course, CO doesn't need to worry about that, though - they have a handy dandy item mall to fall back on.....
It's not because they are invinting 1 million people to OB that means they said they were expecting 1 million subscriber.
Here a link to the preorder announcement on July 24 2009, less than 2 weeks ago.
I say, maybe you should stop posting your Facts because you look more and more like a fool.
Also, why do you care so much about who is going to pay and play since you obviously won't do neither?
Um yes, but the game's publishers said they were expecting 1 million subscribers (article).
So if they publicly say they're expecting 1 million subscribers and they have server resources ready for 1 million subscribers which we know because they invited 1 million subscribers into the open beta - isn't the logical conclusion that.... they expect 1 million subscribers?
And not to put too fine a point on it - but pre-orders HAVE been available for months. Just because Cryptic - who really aren't the best communicators - only put this announcement out two weeks ago doesn't mean that's when pre-orders became available.
Go check the official CO forums, or even these ones. People have talking about microtransactions for months now - and how did we know about those?
a beta previewer reported seeing the item mall True
people could see the Cryptic Bucks as part of the pre-order deal - which has been available for months Not true
Preorder hasn't been available for months, the first one was gamestop couple weeks ago and they showed the Cryptic Bucks and later that week they announce all preorder.
Wrong.
As anyone who has been following CO can tell you, the pre-order has been available for quite some time.
The gamestop entry for CO has been there since March. The comments are dated - have a look if you're even remotely interested in the truth. (link)
In fact, if you look at the Champions Online official forums, the pre-order seems to have been available at least since February. (link)
The facts may not suit you, or Cryptic's chances of flogging this game, but they are what they are.
Preorder hasn't been available for months, the first one was gamestop couple weeks ago and they showed the Cryptic Bucks and later that week they announce all preorder.
Wrong.
As anyone who has been following CO can tell you, the pre-order has been available for quite some time.
The gamestop entry for CO has been there since March. The comments are dated - have a look if you're even remotely interested in the truth. (link)
In fact, if you look at the Champions Online official forums, the pre-order seems to have been available at least since February. (link)
The facts may not suit you, or Cryptic's chances of flogging this game, but they are what they are.
Yes you are right about the Gamestop preorder, but they didn't show any bonuses or Cryptic Bucks until couple of weeks ago. Everybody know, to not believe what Gamestop says on their preorder, take a look www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx this is the preorder for Star Trek Online announce for January 26 2010, but the close beta hasn't even started yet.
Take the time to read couple of the comments in your link on the CO official forum, poeple are saying that Gamestop knows nothing and they made up the launch date and if they would have showed anything about the Cryptic Bucks, you would know in that thread and you can see at Gamestop, July 23 comments, fist mention of MT, around the same time they have been announce.
You are the kind of person who read something, report it somewhere else and add stuff to it and thinks it's the complete truth.
As I can see in you other post, how is the gameplay and you answer with someone else answer from a post in DCUO.
Now I am done with you, obviously, you have so kind of agenda here while you wait for DCUO (which is made by SOE, which is worst than you Bill and HG:L), at this point, you prove us that: Gamestop is not a trustworthy company and that you don't like Bill.
I still, will buy the lifetime subcription no matter what you say and you know why, because I can afford it and I like to know that at anytime I can log back in and check out the update/patch, something I can't do I CoX. If DCUO and Marvel turns out to be good when they come out and they offer a lifetime subcription, I will buy it too.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
Comments
And the straw man arguments continue.... Super weak.
Turbine publicly predicted that they would net themselves over a million subscribers. That's a well-known fact.
Turbine didn't get anywhere near that number of subscribers. That's another well-known fact.
Turbine offered a lifetime subscription only after failing to meet their own expectations. That's a third well-known fact.
Wait... so when I pre-ordered LOTRO they already predicted that their prediction would fail?
Wait... so when I pre-ordered LOTRO they already predicted that their prediction would fail?
Yea..... I hope you realize that Turbine originally offered their lifetime subscription just like Cryptic, before the game was even released to those that preordered.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Wait... so when I pre-ordered LOTRO they already predicted that their prediction would fail?
Yea..... I hope you realize that Turbine originally offered their lifetime subscription just like Cryptic, before the game was even released to those that preordered.
And then this supposedly limited offer was opened up to everyone else, but only after launch. It launched on April 24 2007. Best date I can put on the lifetime sub is early July 2007, by which time they had spectacularly failed to meet their publicised goal of over a million subscribers.
But yes, they probably also had a very good indication of box sales and subscriptions prior to launch. They'd have pre-order sales as a good indicator of those.
So do Cryptic.
you are talking Insect lifetime like a bee or fly right?
Wait... so when I pre-ordered LOTRO they already predicted that their prediction would fail?
Yea..... I hope you realize that Turbine originally offered their lifetime subscription just like Cryptic, before the game was even released to those that preordered.
And then this supposedly limited offer was opened up to everyone else, but only after launch.
Ok? So did you just agree that you were wrong? You said they offered the lifetime subscription only after failing to meet their expectations. But that is false.
It launched on April 24 2007. Best date I can put on the lifetime sub is early July 2007, by which time they had spectacularly failed to meet their publicised goal of over a million subscribers.
Yea, either that, or there was a lot of community support for offering the lifetime subscription to all the players. By the way, Codemasters lofty predictions for the game in no way reflect what Turbine was expecting.
But yes, they probably also had a very good indication of box sales and subscriptions prior to launch. They'd have pre-order sales as a good indicator of those.
The lifetime subscription price was announced at the exact same time the pre-orders were available. So, no, they didn't have pre-order sales to indicate anything.
I'm not going to try and speculate on the reasons Turbine offered the lifetime subscription, but you should get your facts straight before you start throwing around unfounded remarks.
So do Cryptic.
Pre-orders just became available, what, last week? You think they didn't already have this subscription model planned and instead thought, "OMG we didn't sell 70k preorders, hurry and offer the lifetime subscriptions!"
Give me a break.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Ummm...preorders have been available for some time now, at least several weeks. They didn't just start last week.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
My mistake, then. I was just going by this news post.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Generally, lifetime subscriptions and chunk subscription offers this early means only one thing.
The company offering it needs a huge influx of money now.
That is why Turbine did it, and chances are that's why Cryptic is doing it.
Mne eto nado kak zuby v zadnitse.
This.
How many times has Turbine offered Lifetime subs? I'm thinking 2, plus the initial pre-release offer. They seem to offer them, along with the special 9.99 monthly rate, when they are on the verge of pushing out a major expansion. I bought one, but I'm not motivated enough to play much anymore.
As one person commented so well, once the developer has your money, you have no way to influence the direction of the game. Mark Jacobs is an arrogant ass, but he was fundamentally correct when he blurted on these forums that if you don't like the direction the game is going, let the developers know with your credit card. Lifetime subscriptions are designed for blind, devoted fans. I'm not a fan, I'm a customer and I expect value for my money. In Cryptic's case, I'm not much interested in buying just part of the game.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
Wait... so when I pre-ordered LOTRO they already predicted that their prediction would fail?
Yea..... I hope you realize that Turbine originally offered their lifetime subscription just like Cryptic, before the game was even released to those that preordered.
And then this supposedly limited offer was opened up to everyone else, but only after launch. It launched on April 24 2007. Best date I can put on the lifetime sub is early July 2007, by which time they had spectacularly failed to meet their publicised goal of over a million subscribers.
But yes, they probably also had a very good indication of box sales and subscriptions prior to launch. They'd have pre-order sales as a good indicator of those.
So do Cryptic.
You may be right about speculating they are trying for an infusion of cash to offset being incorrect in their projections. It is a possible theory. You are incorrect about the LOTRO life time sub. It was available to those in beta who had pre-ordered and were founders at Launch.
Anyway, sounds like you are well prepared for it to fail so why bother commenting anyway. All I have seen points to this being a pretty solid title and I hope it is. If it is what I think it will be and Cryptic is being reasonable with the thoughts of their sub base, it should do fine and I hope it does.
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get experience for the launch of Aion EU and NA servers, and WIN !!!!
Enjoy the lowest Kina and experience various items. 1M=1.79 US, for more detials, pls visit
http://wangxiaoshuo.com/tj/?id=2&tid=3
get experience for the launch of Aion EU and NA servers, and WIN !!!!
Enjoy the lowest Kina and experience various items. 1M=1.79 US, for more detials, pls visit
http://wangxiaoshuo.com/tj/?id=2&tid=3
get experience for the launch of Aion EU and NA servers, and WIN !!!!
Enjoy the lowest Kina and experience various items. 1M=1.79 US, for more detials, pls visit
http://wangxiaoshuo.com/tj/?id=2&tid=3
Wait... so when I pre-ordered LOTRO they already predicted that their prediction would fail?
Yea..... I hope you realize that Turbine originally offered their lifetime subscription just like Cryptic, before the game was even released to those that preordered.
And then this supposedly limited offer was opened up to everyone else, but only after launch.
Ok? So did you just agree that you were wrong? You said they offered the lifetime subscription only after failing to meet their expectations. But that is false.
It launched on April 24 2007. Best date I can put on the lifetime sub is early July 2007, by which time they had spectacularly failed to meet their publicised goal of over a million subscribers.
Yea, either that, or there was a lot of community support for offering the lifetime subscription to all the players. By the way, Codemasters lofty predictions for the game in no way reflect what Turbine was expecting.
But yes, they probably also had a very good indication of box sales and subscriptions prior to launch. They'd have pre-order sales as a good indicator of those.
The lifetime subscription price was announced at the exact same time the pre-orders were available. So, no, they didn't have pre-order sales to indicate anything.
I'm not going to try and speculate on the reasons Turbine offered the lifetime subscription, but you should get your facts straight before you start throwing around unfounded remarks.
So do Cryptic.
Pre-orders just became available, what, last week? You think they didn't already have this subscription model planned and instead thought, "OMG we didn't sell 70k preorders, hurry and offer the lifetime subscriptions!"
Give me a break.
Codemasters publicly boasting that they were expecting 1 million subscribers wasn't just some fluff statement.
How many open player beta players did LOTRO have? That is, how much server resources did they have prepared for the game's launch?
The magic number is again 1 million.
And you think CO pre-orders only became available last week? They've been selling them for months. But they've only come out with this lifetime subscription just now....
An mmo developer borrows money from lenders or they have investors to develop a game. They predict that they will sell A boxes at B cost to give C profit. So they expect to be able to give D amount of money back to their lenders or investors post launch.
The reason most mmos don't offer lifetime subscriptions is they're generally going to be a bad deal for them. People who love the game enough to shell out that much money would otherwise, over time, spend more on subscriptions.
For a developer, the reason to offer a lifetime subscription is if you eg. know that from pre-order sales that you're not going to meet that immediate C profit target.
LOTRO is a well-known example.
And there's Hellgate London...
Like I've said, I've nothing against lifetime subs - there are mmos I've played where I would have leapt on a lifetime sub offer. But they've generally been popular games that have met or exceeded or their targets, so have had no interest in doing something that would lose them money in the long run.
Of course, CO doesn't need to worry about that, though - they have a handy dandy item mall to fall back on.....
It's not because they are invinting 1 million people to OB that means they said they were expecting 1 million subscriber.
Here a link to the preorder announcement on July 24 2009, less than 2 weeks ago.
http://www.champions-online.com/node/98965
I say, maybe you should stop posting your Facts because you look more and more like a fool.
Also, why do you care so much about who is going to pay and play since you obviously won't do neither?
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
It's not because they are invinting 1 million people to OB that means they said they were expecting 1 million subscriber.
Here a link to the preorder announcement on July 24 2009, less than 2 weeks ago.
http://www.champions-online.com/node/98965
I say, maybe you should stop posting your Facts because you look more and more like a fool.
Also, why do you care so much about who is going to pay and play since you obviously won't do neither?
Um yes, but the game's publishers said they were expecting 1 million subscribers (article).
So if they publicly say they're expecting 1 million subscribers and they have server resources ready for 1 million subscribers which we know because they invited 1 million subscribers into the open beta - isn't the logical conclusion that.... they expect 1 million subscribers?
And not to put too fine a point on it - but pre-orders HAVE been available for months. Just because Cryptic - who really aren't the best communicators - only put this announcement out two weeks ago doesn't mean that's when pre-orders became available.
Go check the official CO forums, or even these ones. People have talking about microtransactions for months now - and how did we know about those?
It's not because they are invinting 1 million people to OB that means they said they were expecting 1 million subscriber.
Here a link to the preorder announcement on July 24 2009, less than 2 weeks ago.
http://www.champions-online.com/node/98965
I say, maybe you should stop posting your Facts because you look more and more like a fool.
Also, why do you care so much about who is going to pay and play since you obviously won't do neither?
Um yes, but the game's publishers said they were expecting 1 million subscribers (article).
So if they publicly say they're expecting 1 million subscribers and they have server resources ready for 1 million subscribers which we know because they invited 1 million subscribers into the open beta - isn't the logical conclusion that.... they expect 1 million subscribers?
And not to put too fine a point on it - but pre-orders HAVE been available for months. Just because Cryptic - who really aren't the best communicators - only put this announcement out two weeks ago doesn't mean that's when pre-orders became available.
Go check the official CO forums, or even these ones. People have talking about microtransactions for months now - and how did we know about those?
Who cares? why dont you stop your lil forum crusade its pretty pethetic. if you dont want to play then dont. no one cares if you do or not.
it all comes down to will Co have alasting appeal or will it be boring. so far its fun. more os than most mmos that have come out recently
You may not have noticed, but this is mmorpg.com, not championsonline.com.
So you can take your invitation to leave the forums and microtransact it.
I'm sorry you can't argue against my point - because I'm right - but asking someone to leave because you can't deal with uncomfortable facts ain't gonna work.
These forums serve two primary functions:
Champions Online is doing some weird stuff - so it makes for good discussion. There's fascination factor with watching a train-wreck in motion.
I also think Cryptic's approach to its potential customers is shifty. If they started dealing honestly with their potential customers, I'd have very little to say about Champions Online.
It's not because they are invinting 1 million people to OB that means they said they were expecting 1 million subscriber.
Here a link to the preorder announcement on July 24 2009, less than 2 weeks ago.
http://www.champions-online.com/node/98965
I say, maybe you should stop posting your Facts because you look more and more like a fool.
Also, why do you care so much about who is going to pay and play since you obviously won't do neither?
Um yes, but the game's publishers said they were expecting 1 million subscribers (article).
So if they publicly say they're expecting 1 million subscribers and they have server resources ready for 1 million subscribers which we know because they invited 1 million subscribers into the open beta - isn't the logical conclusion that.... they expect 1 million subscribers?
And not to put too fine a point on it - but pre-orders HAVE been available for months. Just because Cryptic - who really aren't the best communicators - only put this announcement out two weeks ago doesn't mean that's when pre-orders became available.
Go check the official CO forums, or even these ones. People have talking about microtransactions for months now - and how did we know about those?
Preorder hasn't been available for months, the first one was gamestop couple weeks ago and they showed the Cryptic Bucks and later that week they announce all preorder.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
You may not have noticed, but this is mmorpg.com, not championsonline.com.
So you can take your invitation to leave the forums and microtransact it.
I'm sorry you can't argue against my point - because I'm right - but asking someone to leave because you can't deal with uncomfortable facts ain't gonna work.
These forums serve two primary functions:
Champions Online is doing some weird stuff - so it makes for good discussion. There's fascination factor with watching a train-wreck in motion.
I also think Cryptic's approach to its potential customers is shifty. If they started dealing honestly with their potential customers, I'd have very little to say about Champions Online.
We did prove you wrong with you facts, but you still blindly believe them. The reason why we say you should move on is, you don't bring anything new, always the same broken record, LOTRO this, Hellgate that, did I mention this about LoTRO, yeah I think I did, but lets say it again just ro make sure, Oh! Just though about something new, Hellgate close down.....no, no, wait, ya brainfart, I said that already. But you guys didn't know about the 1 million subscr......Yes you do, why? Right I said it multiple times.
It doesn't matter if it is mmorpg.com or championsonline.com, You're not welcome here anymore, not because we can't argue against you, but because we can't argue with you, it's that simple.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
You may not have noticed, but this is mmorpg.com, not championsonline.com.
So you can take your invitation to leave the forums and microtransact it.
I'm sorry you can't argue against my point - because I'm right - but asking someone to leave because you can't deal with uncomfortable facts ain't gonna work.
These forums serve two primary functions:
Champions Online is doing some weird stuff - so it makes for good discussion. There's fascination factor with watching a train-wreck in motion.
I also think Cryptic's approach to its potential customers is shifty. If they started dealing honestly with their potential customers, I'd have very little to say about Champions Online.
We did prove you wrong with you facts, but you still blindly believe them. The reason why we say you should move on is, you don't bring anything new, always the same broken record, LOTRO this, Hellgate that, did I mention this about LoTRO, yeah I think I did, but lets say it again just ro make sure, Oh! Just though about something new, Hellgate close down.....no, no, wait, ya brainfart, I said that already. But you guys didn't know about the 1 million subscr......Yes you do, why? Right I said it multiple times.
It doesn't matter if it is mmorpg.com or championsonline.com, You're not welcome here anymore, not because we can't argue against you, but because we can't argue with you, it's that simple.
Give this man a star. QFT
There's nothing to add regarding this topic and I actually have some grievances with Flagship Studios/Namco Bandai/EA regarding HGL (I own 3 CEs of HGL) but there's such a thing as a limit. I got NOTHING against Bill after I read his blog about Flagship Studios and why it was shutdown.
I'm buying Champions Online because of Cryptic Studios, I played CoX and I was floored by how professional Cryptic ran that game. So please stop blabbing about Bill Roper that and LOTRO that, its just white noise right now. The more negative you try to be, the more trollish you look. I could care LESS about RMT.
Ya greenie is a bit of a putz but you people have to look on the bright side AION is coming out soon and so hopefully his broken-record self should become preoccupied.
That is until he realizes what a shallow and boring experience AION offers. But hey...he'll be out of our hair.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
Everyone who preordered will know if the beginning of the game is good or not before launch. We won't have a clue about its staying power yet.
I remember AoC, where my guild had a blast for the first couple months before the horrible later game became apparent. Then there was WAR, which wasn't as bad but still didn't have enough staying power to keep us. It's just two big of a gamble to make such decisions with only two weeks of play to decide with.
IF I enjoy the open beta for the two weeks, I may decide to buy a six month subscription. Odds are good that the lifetime sub won't disappear after September 1. They'd be crazy to do that. It's only the extra perks that will be taken off the table.
It's not because they are invinting 1 million people to OB that means they said they were expecting 1 million subscriber.
Here a link to the preorder announcement on July 24 2009, less than 2 weeks ago.
http://www.champions-online.com/node/98965
I say, maybe you should stop posting your Facts because you look more and more like a fool.
Also, why do you care so much about who is going to pay and play since you obviously won't do neither?
Um yes, but the game's publishers said they were expecting 1 million subscribers (article).
So if they publicly say they're expecting 1 million subscribers and they have server resources ready for 1 million subscribers which we know because they invited 1 million subscribers into the open beta - isn't the logical conclusion that.... they expect 1 million subscribers?
And not to put too fine a point on it - but pre-orders HAVE been available for months. Just because Cryptic - who really aren't the best communicators - only put this announcement out two weeks ago doesn't mean that's when pre-orders became available.
Go check the official CO forums, or even these ones. People have talking about microtransactions for months now - and how did we know about those?
Preorder hasn't been available for months, the first one was gamestop couple weeks ago and they showed the Cryptic Bucks and later that week they announce all preorder.
Wrong.
As anyone who has been following CO can tell you, the pre-order has been available for quite some time.
The gamestop entry for CO has been there since March. The comments are dated - have a look if you're even remotely interested in the truth. (link)
In fact, if you look at the Champions Online official forums, the pre-order seems to have been available at least since February. (link)
The facts may not suit you, or Cryptic's chances of flogging this game, but they are what they are.
Wrong.
As anyone who has been following CO can tell you, the pre-order has been available for quite some time.
The gamestop entry for CO has been there since March. The comments are dated - have a look if you're even remotely interested in the truth. (link)
In fact, if you look at the Champions Online official forums, the pre-order seems to have been available at least since February. (link)
The facts may not suit you, or Cryptic's chances of flogging this game, but they are what they are.
Yes you are right about the Gamestop preorder, but they didn't show any bonuses or Cryptic Bucks until couple of weeks ago. Everybody know, to not believe what Gamestop says on their preorder, take a look www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx this is the preorder for Star Trek Online announce for January 26 2010, but the close beta hasn't even started yet.
Take the time to read couple of the comments in your link on the CO official forum, poeple are saying that Gamestop knows nothing and they made up the launch date and if they would have showed anything about the Cryptic Bucks, you would know in that thread and you can see at Gamestop, July 23 comments, fist mention of MT, around the same time they have been announce.
You are the kind of person who read something, report it somewhere else and add stuff to it and thinks it's the complete truth.
As I can see in you other post, how is the gameplay and you answer with someone else answer from a post in DCUO.
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2995900/how-is-gameplay.html#2995900
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2995888/thread/246225#2995888
Now I am done with you, obviously, you have so kind of agenda here while you wait for DCUO (which is made by SOE, which is worst than you Bill and HG:L), at this point, you prove us that: Gamestop is not a trustworthy company and that you don't like Bill.
I still, will buy the lifetime subcription no matter what you say and you know why, because I can afford it and I like to know that at anytime I can log back in and check out the update/patch, something I can't do I CoX. If DCUO and Marvel turns out to be good when they come out and they offer a lifetime subcription, I will buy it too.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!