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Tried Vanguard. WoW is ruined. Now what?
Antipathy
Member UncommonPosts: 1,362
I've been playing WoW for the past several years. Occasionally I've given other games a try, such as EQ2, or LOTRO but nothing has really held me. Until now.
For the past 10 days I've been playing the Vanguard trial. I've found something that I'd been severely missing in WoW - it's actually a challenge !
- My level 10 disciple feels more complex to play than some endgame wow characters.
- My rogue struggles to kill anything if he doesn't get his opener.
- Most of my trial characters have died somewhere before reaching level 7.
- After I get past the trial areas I'll face the new challenge of a real death penalty.
Vanguard still has lots of issues. There are still obvious bugs around. Server population is low, as is development funding. There's not much of endgame, and I've read about huge class balance issues. I'm still reluctant to commit to the game.
But - after trying it - I'm finding it hard to go back to a game such as WoW - everything feels too easy - with any of my characters. And wow graphics look too cartoony now - which is odd, because I didn't get that feeling after playing LoTRO or EQ2. Emotionally I just feel I can't go back. I'm going to have to tell my guild that I'm about to stop raiding. But then what will I do?
Should I commit to Vanguard even in it's current moribund state?
Or is there somewhere else I should be looking for a challenge?
In before:
- try a PvP game like Aion. I actually like doing group PvE stuff - especially in groups. Hence I'd prefer to avoid a game which has it's main focus on PvP. And Aion is bound to be just as full of kiddies as wow ever was.
- play an FPS. Sorry - they give me travel sickness. Crap I know, but there's not much I can do about it.
Comments
I do not think Aion will be for kiddies because the PvPvE concept requires organised groups and raids. To be successful in Aion you kinda need to like that type of gameplay. Also, many elements of the gameplay require you to have patience, which most young players do not have.
I honestly do not have any suggestions for you. Can't even comment whether you should keep playing Vanguard because never tried that myself. However, Aion might give you at least few months worth entertainment, but suggest you try to find a good legion to avoid strife with "kiddies".
Apart from that you might have to wait for games like Global Agenda (which should meet your criteria very well) or SW:TOR.
My own short-term plan is to play Aion, if that fails (aka eng-game is not great) buy Dragon Age: Origins and wait for Global Agenda to release. If that fails, I probably give up MMOs until SW:TOR comes out.
There are few other titles that seem interesting, but seem pretty far away.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Global Agenda looks like an MMFPS - so I doubt it's what I'm looking for - it may be the right game for you, so good luck with it. But not for me.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
No doubt finding a challenge in MMO's these days can be difficult. You could always try picking up some of the games made before wow. I enjoyed Vanguard early on, but with the lack of support and low server pops, it's probably not the best bet for a long-term game, but then if it's the challenge you like, it might be one of the few choices you have.
I was in your boat awhile ago. I currently don't play anything but DOTA, but VG and EQ2 are good picks. VG was horrid at launch, I played it to death back then. It is a pretty good game now, but it has no future due to money and population. I would say stick to EQ2 and play the PVE and raid. It is good stuff and challenging. VG will just be a waste of your time, really, because of what I posted before.
Aion won't be like WoW in that kiddie sense. It will be very challenging in PVP and you will see massive guilds organized unlike in WoW.
And yeah, WoW IS too easy. I played it in and out several times and I never got the feel for the game as much as I did for EQ1 or EQ2. Everything is spoon fed to you.
I'd say just wait for another MMO to come out. Try everything you can and see what you like. There are not many choices out right now..
Try Champions? I am going to give that a shot before Aion.
I played Runes of Magic, it is very good for a F2P game.
I"m back to playing VG:SOH as well lately, and I'm loving it.
My suggestion is simple: if you're enjoying VG, stick with it. True, there's little chance for an expansion, but unless you play a LOT of hours each day/week, you won't hit level cap any time soon. That gives you plenty of time to enjoy the game and make some friends.
Another part of leveling in VG is that the lower levels are more sparsely populated. Once you get into your upper 20s and beyond, you'll find it's easier to find / start a PUG.
The way I see it, I'd rather play a game that has no future than play one that is boring. The challenge level in VG is great, and since I can't play 20+ hours per week it will keep me busy for a long time to come. On top of that, there are other MMOs coming out in the next year or so that I'll be watching closely, so chances are I won't have to worry about the lack of development for VG for all that long anyway.
Good luck to you!
No godless person can comprehend those minute distinctions
in doctrine that provide true believers excuse for mayhem.
-Glen Cook
Personally, I play VG for now becuase I cannot get into any other game out there.
It does have challenges and the popluation is a bit low but, Xeth seems to have a steady stream of players on. Enough to get groups in most hot spots. There are also plenty of areas to solo or group with a few people where you will not be intereupted or have to compete over spawns like other areas.
I never really cared for EQII that much and felt VG was a much better attempt to capture the EQ feeling. Still, if you are worried about it try giving MMO a break for a bit. Wait for something new to come out and try it.
I have been on the fence about Aion. I was never much into PvP until WAR came out and I found it fun. The problem was just keeping up woth the power players. I play casually and most PvP games attracked players who play massive amounts of hours. I just could not keep up with them.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
Go for Asheron's Call, free 2 week trial is worth giving a shot anyways. Yes the graphics are older but the game is hitting it's 10 month anniversary in 2 months so there is bound to be some interesting things going on and there will be plenty of returning players who want to see how it's all changed over time. And if you want PvP go to the Darktide server, I'm sure they'll give you a warm ganking welcome since it is open ffa pvp, only safety is a couple minutes after being killed by a player and inside your house if you own one.
I say try EVE. They got a 14 day free trial going over there and I think it's defiently worth a shot. I'm about half way through my trial and I think I'm finally going to sub to it.
Many games out there to entertain you. FFXIV is the light at the end of my tunnel. I plan on playing Aion, EVE, and some PS3 until either Diablo 3 or FFXIV comes out which combined should occupy my time for a few years.
I wouldn't play Vanguard or go back to WoW honestly. Try EVE, Ryzom, Everquest 2 (on Antonia Bayle), or go for Aion. Honestly i'd just play Aion because it will be fun at launch, there is tons of grouping.. more than any MMO i've played since FFXI, and they just added a ton of PvE stuff to the end game. Just always roll in groups and make some friends. Many PvE oriented players have played Aion and enjoyed the PvPvE system they have setup.
Hmmmm, Vanguard. I received the Beta invite to it but never finished the download. This thread intrigues me. I am currently pretty bored with what I am playing and pretty frustrated with what's coming out.
What's the level cap on Vanguard?
How much difference does level make among players? Is it a hinderance to grouping?
How many lethal attacks are required to defeat an opponent?
Does it use Hit Points?
How important is gear?
What else there to do besides quest or craft?
What are the death penalties?
TSW, LotRO, EQ2, SWTOR, GW2, V:SoH, Neverwinter, ArchAge, EQ, UO, DAoC, WAR, DDO, AoC, MO, BDO, SotA, B&S, ESO,
You could try Ryzom, it is not very PvP orientated and even though it has been out for a number of years, the community is very welcoming. There are no classes and you can (with time) master everything in the game.
Moonlightmist
If you don't want to play Aion, I'd suggest Saga of Ryzom, it might have the challenge you're looking for.
Or try out Dofus, it's got turn-based battles so you won't suffer any travel sickness (a bit like Final Fantasy Tactics -style), it might have the challenge you need and grouping is actually a good option unlike with many of todays MMOs, and most importantly, it's so unique and diffirent from anyt other MMO that it's a good experience to try even if you end up not liking it.
Level makes a significant difference between players. For best results (and xp) you should be within 5 levels of everyone you're grouped with.
The number of attacks it takes to kill a mob varies way too much. It depends on lots of factors such as: your class, the mob's type (i.e. heavy armor, spell caster, etc.), whether or not you proc chain attacks, which chain attacks you choose to use, etc.
Yes, there are HPs.
Gear is important enough that you want to upgrade your equipment, but so important that if you're leveling up and not upgrading every 1 or 2 levels you'll notice much of a difference. I had some slots with level 6 gear when I was level 14, and when I upgraded them I can't say I noticed a tremendous benefit.
Crafting in VG is better than in any other game, in my opinion. So don't count it out. Aside from questing and crafting, there is the diplomacy system as well, which is an entirely separate leveling course for you to take.
Death penalties start when you hit level 10 or 11 (can't remember which). You lose XP every time you die, and you have to run back to the spot where you died and click your tombstone in order to restore SOME of the lost XP. It's not as bad as EQ was back in the day, but after dying a couple of times you're definitely motivated to stay alive and not lose the XP again.
No godless person can comprehend those minute distinctions
in doctrine that provide true believers excuse for mayhem.
-Glen Cook
I was a big support of VG back in the day and I've returned a few times here and there but I couldn't get into it. If feels like a game on life support. Your statement:
"Vanguard still has lots of issues. There are still obvious bugs around. Server population is low, as is development funding. There's not much of endgame, and I've read about huge class balance issues."
Pretty much sums it up. When did VG release? (Jan 07) and they're STILL working things out? How are they going to release any meaningful content or expansions when they're still in damage control mode? VG has the biggest, most beautiful MMO gaming world I've ever seen, too bad it's a ghost town. You may as well play Oblivion.
Personally, I'm gonna give Aion a go, I'm digging the PvPvE thing, it flows well together. The music, visuals and performance are all tight and the combat system is right up there with AoC's imo. Hopefully it'll carry me to FFXIV which will more than likely be a long way away (don't let the 2010 expected date fool you, you won't see it til 2011 I'd wager) Star War: TOR looks promising as well.
That's my two cents, hope it was helpful.
I would NOT, repeat would NOT bother wasting your time and money with Vanguard: SoH. It's dead. There are hardly any updates. It takes 6 months to fix minor issues. There are only like 4 people on the dev team. Last year before things started to get really bad I would've said for sure try it.
But it's dead now. There is nothing new going into it. There are still many bugs that haven't been fixed, the game is too large and not enough people working on it. SOE doesn't care about it obviously. I can't imagine the playerbase being larger than 80k either.
I'd say Aion, because you obviously don't know how difficult the PvE content is in that game. I've been playing with very skilled MMO vets and we've been wiping on level 20 Elites. Every Elite zone is actually a thrill and they have added massive PvE endgame content, most of which is more impressive than WoW considering how watered down that game is now.
I've been having fun in Age of Conan and wonder why it gets so much hate when it's better than most mmorpgs out there. I've got lots of content to do throughout the 40 levels I've done so far. I've been getting lots of groups too once I worked out how to use the UI to look for people.
I just wish'd the world was laid out more like one.
I've also been doing alot of PVP but it takes a long while to get used to it. You expect all mmorpgs to play like WoW but Age of Conan is so twitch based that I've found it alot harder. I just got my friend into the game and we're both Assassins and just pounce on people.
OK - I can reply to some of the suggestions here:
EQ2: I've tried it - played with a few characters, including a conjurer to the high 20s. But the game-play didn't do it for me. It's still simplistic. And on top of that I found EQ2 fealt too much like generic fantasy. There was no individuality and atmosphere.
Saga of Ryzom: Great crafting system and world. But once you've got your attacks set up, you end up just hitting whichever 2-3 buttons are most effective over and over again. The actual game play is considerably simpler than WoW - so definitely not what I'm after.
Aion: You guys are doing a good job of selling it. But with the game still in Beta, it's difficult for me to sort the fanboy comments from the truth. There seem to be very few things I can be sure of in the game. It has PvP and PvPvE. It has wings. But it feels difficult for me at the moment to judge whether the game has any substance. Perhaps I might try it.
Really - I know Vanguard still has problems. But unless I can find something else, then that's what I'll play.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
How's the PVP leveling from open world combat? Same as within the BG's? I'm thinking the two experiences aren't equal yet.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Everyone will have different expectations, tastes and opinions (rahther strong ones) on games. While what people have to say about a game may help you in what you decide to do, just look at it as just that, information about what you might enjoy in a game.
I have recently returned to Vanguard and I've had no problems with it. I started in beta 3, so the comparison is night and day but I also have a decent rig. I don't believe it's dead as some people claim it to be, I'm on Halgar which does have a very low population but I still do manage to find a pug ocasionally, still, it can definately use a lot more. Joining a guild will change that though, so keep that in mind. Also, Seradon is the the server with the highest pop.
I personally really enjoy Vanguard, if you're used to WoW, you'll most likely face a steeper learning curver than what you're used to but when you do get the hang of things, you'll feel a greater sense of accomplishment. Another thing about VG is the community and I dont include Isle of Dawn since that's where you get free trial players, so it's not a real portrayal of what the VG community is like. Almost everyone will be willing to give you advice, help you, give you some good gear, etc, it's one of the best communities I've experienced, along with EQ and EQ2 (in 04/05) havent been on since.
The game itself is so immersive and I still do think it has a lot of potential, if only Sony would invest more into it but the skeleton crew that's at the helm is doing a fairly good job so stick it out for a bit longer, try to interact with the community more, if you still dont like it, there'll be new MMOs to choose from coming out later this year :-)
Play what you have fun in. If you have fun playing VG, then there's no need to worry about whether you should play something else or not.
I mean, instead of viewing gaming as an investment or commitment, view it as simply entertainment. If you found it to be fun, then play it. Would you one day find it not satisfying and quit later on? Sure, but games aren't meant to last forever.
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
Try Champions Online
You can't even level through PvP in Aion, You can' t have Arena . You can't have scaled Raid difficutlies, you can't have personal mounts, you can't have underwater worlds, you can't have dual specs, you can' thave gear equipment changes, you can't have decent classes and it is ... from Korea.
Watered down. Which one is the copycat with the 10% playing options ?
Did I mention zoning?
))
So ridiculous these kind of posts.
The future of MMO's lays in the hands of a Korean copycat with 10% of the playing options Blizzard offers.
Great. Applaud the animé copycat with the translated text boxes and people that grow wings on their backs.
LOL...the more of your posts I read, the more I'm starting to wonder...are you trying to convince us, or are you trying to convince yourself?
Katsma is Lithuanian for 'he who drinks used douche fluid'.
I don't think hes trying to convince us or himself. Plenty of people(including me) feel the same way about Aion as he does, and are quite frankly sick of the fans and promoters trying to make it out to be something it isn't.
Aion is the new king on the MMO throne.
Everything that WoW does, Aion does better with a flash of brilliance. Aion has brought back that Open World PvP that gamers have been dying for, with real world meaning attached. None of the this meaningless instance garbage that can be afk grinded with 0 risk or consequence (boring, yes it is). Aion's gameplay has risk and complexity, it's a game made for the competitive gamer that will rewards success, rather than giving it with 0 effort.
Aion has garnered a huge subscriber base already in Asia after only 8 months of release, while WoW's numbers have nosedived since Aion came to town (look at the MMO data graphs). How much of a impact will Aion have in the West? the writing is on the wall ....
Long live the king.
gl with Aion!!
))
GW2 the future of MMO gaming