Although jumping can be kind of fun the novelty of it does wear off and in the end it's a "who cares" scenario. If the game doesn't need it I won't shed tears if it doesn't have it. My move from EQ1 to FFXI was a shocker - it took some time for me to adjust to the fact that I could not jump away to safety while being nearly mauled by a mob. You just learn to adapt.
You learn to adapt if you are paralized and confined to a wheelchair. That does not mean your quality of life has not diminished.
The ability to jump adds the option of gameplay elements like stepping stones which broaden the gameplay experience.
You're seriously comparing jumping in a game because it doesn't require it, to being confined to a wheelchair in real life because you're paralyzed?
/facepalm
I realilze you were going for "impact" there by using such an extreme example, but it's a horrible analogy. There's a number of flaws in that comparison, forgetting the fact that you're likening a fictitious character in a game to a very real person paralyzed in real life. However, it's not even worth going into them, as I don't want to give your post any more attention than I have, other than to say, might want to work on your sense of perspective there.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
You also learn to adapt if someone invents a new forum of interface (for instance a mouse) I was around when this invention took the main stream computer world by storm!
So many people insisted they didn't need a mouse they were fine without it, it slowed them down.
People still don't use them if they don't like it.
Just because you assume that everyone needs some thing that is amazingly vital to you, does not mean that it is in fact amazingly vital to everyone.
You have your analogy backwards. Jumping is something that is missing from the game, not something new that is being added. It's not innovation - it is a missing feature.
Also - I never made any claims about how many other players consider jumping to be important. Nor did I imply it was a deal-breaker for me.
I would like to disagree then that jumping is a "missing feature."
I think that jumping takes away from the experience, the same way a cash shop does.
Not only does jumping add the possibility of many exploitable situations and causes the designers to have to go out of their way to have to fix any of those situations, which takes time away from making better core gameplay. (for instance exploiting walls to kill monsters without them being able to kill you)
It also does wonderful things like kills immersion, generally the jump animation in games is done very poorly, seeing someone bunny hop around town or just stand in place and jump repeatedly takes away from others game play.
Its a design choice, if they decide to add in jumping I'm sure they will have spent the time to implement it correctly, however if they do not there are a stack of reasons they have to point to when some people cry foul.
I would like to disagree then that jumping is a "missing feature."
I think that jumping takes away from the experience, the same way a cash shop does.
Not only does jumping add the possibility of many exploitable situations and causes the designers to have to go out of their way to have to fix any of those situations, which takes time away from making better core gameplay. (for instance exploiting walls to kill monsters without them being able to kill you)
Just make the walls higher than jumping height. Fixed.
It also does wonderful things like kills immersion, generally the jump animation in games is done very poorly, seeing someone bunny hop around town or just stand in place and jump repeatedly takes away from others game play.
Put a cooldown on the jump ability. Fixed.
I find bounders annoying too, but not nearly as annoying as having to run around terrain features which would not be impassaible to me in RL.
Its a design choice, if they decide to add in jumping I'm sure they will have spent the time to implement it correctly, however if they do not there are a stack of reasons they have to point to when some people cry foul.
It's sloppy design to allow careless graphic design - OR an integral flaw in their engine.
The inablility to jump and swim removes those elements from gameplay. You can't have places that require jumping or swimming to access them, for example. Take a look at WoW's underwater areas and tell me you're not missing out being unable to swim.
The more gameplay options you have - the richer the potential experience.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I would like to disagree then that jumping is a "missing feature."
I think that jumping takes away from the experience, the same way a cash shop does.
Not only does jumping add the possibility of many exploitable situations and causes the designers to have to go out of their way to have to fix any of those situations, which takes time away from making better core gameplay. (for instance exploiting walls to kill monsters without them being able to kill you)
Just make the walls higher than jumping height. Fixed.
It also does wonderful things like kills immersion, generally the jump animation in games is done very poorly, seeing someone bunny hop around town or just stand in place and jump repeatedly takes away from others game play.
Put a cooldown on the jump ability. Fixed.
I find bounders annoying too, but not nearly as annoying as having to run around terrain features which would not be impassaible to me in RL.
Its a design choice, if they decide to add in jumping I'm sure they will have spent the time to implement it correctly, however if they do not there are a stack of reasons they have to point to when some people cry foul.
It's sloppy design to allow careless graphic design - OR an integral flaw in their engine.
The inablility to jump and swim removes those elements from gameplay. You can't have places that require jumping or swimming to access them, for example. Take a look at WoW's underwater areas and tell me you're not missing out being unable to swim.
The more gameplay options you have - the richer the potential experience.
Honestly I Loath every quest that requires me to go under water or through water to get to an island just to do a quest. I've hated it ever since DAOC when they did Trials of Atlantis.
If they let you do a jump for ENTIRELY cosmetic reasons would that satisfy you?
Then they have jumping, look at the video and you can see them dancing, which there is jumping in their dancing.
If you want there to be places to jump "to" then why not just have them able to be walked to instead? I don't see how jumping not being in the game detracts from the ability to explore, or how swimming adds to it.
If the same amount of "area" is available to be explored and the areas are diverse enough, then isn't the same goal achieved?
These are the ridiculous stuff in life that makes it intresting.
I firmly believe they will not add jump to this game, but I think jumping adds some kinda instinctive sense of freedom. Preliminary. I'll come with a conclusion when the game is out! Who else other than me can not wait for that next time crusher MMORPG to come out, where we can socialize, argument and flame eachother? I can see a discussion about jumping coming up next in-game.
"WTF, SE DID NOT ADD JUMP?"
"WTFGTFO, BACK TO WOW PLZ"
or counterwise. Watch out so I don't let my technoviking jump loose on you.
This is the best signature ever. Well, it is really up to you to decide. :x
im wondering what it is these 'jumpers' are wanting to jump over exactly.. its not mirrors edge after all.... next thing you know they'll be wanting crosshairs in the center of the screen.. oh wait.. its not an fps either..
You're seriously comparing jumping in a game because it doesn't require it, to being confined to a wheelchair in real life because you're paralyzed?
/facepalm
I realilze you were going for "impact" there by using such an extreme example, but it's a horrible analogy.
Come on, get serious. Read it again and think about it.
Okay... I read it again, and there's nothing to think about... It's a ridiculous analogy.
Using the limitations placed on a paryalyzed person in real life, and their diminished quality of life as an argument for jumping in a video game is absurd.
It was an attempt on your part to give your argument more "impact", and a failed one at that. I'm typically cynical of human nature in general, but I'm fairly sure when asked, that few people would agree that not being able to jump in a video game is analagous to being physically handicapped and bound to a wheelchair in reality. I wouldn't be surprised if a few didn't take you or the question at all seriously.
Try this .... Talk to someone who is truly handicapped and bound to a wheelchar in real life, who can't even *walk* much less run or jump, and then tell them that it's just like not being able to jump in a video game, that the "quality of life" is diminished in a similar way... and be 100% serious about it. Tell me how they react.
You prefer jumping in a video game and feel it offers you more freedom during gameplay. Wonderful. You could simply say that without using handicapped people in real life to make your point.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
im wondering what it is these 'jumpers' are wanting to jump over exactly.. its not mirrors edge after all.... next thing you know they'll be wanting crosshairs in the center of the screen.. oh wait.. its not an fps either..
I find it amazing that it's *so* important, and *so* crucial, and *so* critical to some peopel that they wouldn't play the game if it doesn't have it, or go so far as to say the game would be a failure... even in the face of other MMOs that have no jumping and have done just fine.
If the game design warrants it, then great...
This talk of "more freedom" and "more immersive" and "more realistic"....
What's funny about that last bit... "more realistic" is that some people will argue for jumping because it's "more realistic", but then will scoff when I suggest that more realistic jumping would include a stamina bar or something of that sort where each time you jump, it's depleted... if you jump repeatedly in rapid succession, it drops faster because you're wearing yourself out more quickly (just like in real life). Additionally, other tasks also require stamina so you need to make sure you don't blow thruogh it all or you might not have it when you really need it. Also, jumping should also potentially draw aggro... especially jumping near aggressive enemies. This way the player has to be careful of when they jump and time it right so as to not draw attention to themselves and/or their party members.
I would be perfectly fine with that.
Interestingly though... many of those who argue for jumping because they want "more realism" don't like the idea.
Wonder why that is?
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Well, of course it's a question of design, you could make a game that'd work with various sorts of movement designs after all... You could go isometric and just click-to-move; or you could throw out running and make everybody walk, or heck, you could even throw out walking backwards, and all of these different movement decisions can work given they fit the overall design.
Still, people are used to doing things, or controlling their in-game characters a certain way in MMOs. For example, you could make a case for the needlessness of strafing in an MMO, and you might turn out to be right, given the overall design of that game.... but if that game's generally similar to other MMOs, experienced players will probably feel the movement is awkward, maybe even stifling. That's because they'd have played enough MMOs that the character movement has largely become second nature to them, like an extension of their will, instead of something you consciously think about. So the absence of one of the basic forms of movement (namely jumping) will break that second-nature way of working and put the player ill at ease.
For myself, yeah, it's a bit like losing strafing to me. I can get used to its absence, but would much rather have it in.
Because it is important to move around the world, he you can't even jump down 10cm in the ffxiv world. No sorry you can't go down there or up over there because the don't allow it.
For me you run into so many invisible walls because the program does not allow you to go this path down there because you have no way to jump down that way. Bad design. :P
Jumping might be useless majority of the time, but so are a lot of things in an MMORPG. I tried to play FF11 back in the day and I stopped playing not because of the lack of the jump button, but because I was forced to party with people to get anything done, even simple kill quest.
I don't think having a lack of a jump button makes a game good or bad, but it is a lack of choice and MMO's are all about choices for me. I should have the choice to group up with people or not, I should have the choice to swim or not. I should have the choice to jump around like an idiot if I want.
The last problem with the lack of a jump mechanic makes the game bad for some people. The people that feel that way have a valid point. It is now 2010, not 1990, and Squaresoft isn't some low-budget game developer. They have the money and resources to include simple things like jump and swim into a game and they can make it look good and feel unique.
Jumping might be useless majority of the time, but so are a lot of things in an MMORPG. I tried to play FF11 back in the day and I stopped playing not because of the lack of the jump button, but because I was forced to party with people to get anything done, even simple kill quest.
I don't think having a lack of a jump button makes a game good or bad, but it is a lack of choice and MMO's are all about choices for me. I should have the choice to group up with people or not, I should have the choice to swim or not. I should have the choice to jump around like an idiot if I want.
The last problem with the lack of a jump mechanic makes the game bad for some people. The people that feel that way have a valid point. It is now 2010, not 1990, and Squaresoft isn't some low-budget game developer. They have the money and resources to include simple things like jump and swim into a game and they can make it look good and feel unique.
Because I read through all 15 pages and wanted to throw my own 2 cents in, Plus I read the rules of conduct and there is nothing about posting on a month old thread.
Because I read through all 15 pages and wanted to throw my own 2 cents in, Plus I read the rules of conduct and there is nothing about posting on a month old thread.
After a month old thread dies do you really think anyone cares about your opinion on the subject?
Jumping might be useless majority of the time, but so are a lot of things in an MMORPG. I tried to play FF11 back in the day and I stopped playing not because of the lack of the jump button, but because I was forced to party with people to get anything done, even simple kill quest.
I don't think having a lack of a jump button makes a game good or bad, but it is a lack of choice and MMO's are all about choices for me. I should have the choice to group up with people or not, I should have the choice to swim or not. I should have the choice to jump around like an idiot if I want.
The last problem with the lack of a jump mechanic makes the game bad for some people. The people that feel that way have a valid point. It is now 2010, not 1990, and Squaresoft isn't some low-budget game developer. They have the money and resources to include simple things like jump and swim into a game and they can make it look good and feel unique.
You resurrected this thread just for that?
WWHYY!?!
WHY?!!?!
Its an account that was made today, there some hidden motive to reviving this thread.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
The true answer is yes you can jump in FFXIV but you have to enter up,down,left,traingle,square,left trigger,down,up,right,circle,x and right trigger to do it each time!
Comments
Mario says no.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
80% of the NES-Genisis-SNES catalog would disagree XD
You're seriously comparing jumping in a game because it doesn't require it, to being confined to a wheelchair in real life because you're paralyzed?
/facepalm
I realilze you were going for "impact" there by using such an extreme example, but it's a horrible analogy. There's a number of flaws in that comparison, forgetting the fact that you're likening a fictitious character in a game to a very real person paralyzed in real life. However, it's not even worth going into them, as I don't want to give your post any more attention than I have, other than to say, might want to work on your sense of perspective there.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Come on, get serious. Read it again and think about it.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I would like to disagree then that jumping is a "missing feature."
I think that jumping takes away from the experience, the same way a cash shop does.
Not only does jumping add the possibility of many exploitable situations and causes the designers to have to go out of their way to have to fix any of those situations, which takes time away from making better core gameplay. (for instance exploiting walls to kill monsters without them being able to kill you)
It also does wonderful things like kills immersion, generally the jump animation in games is done very poorly, seeing someone bunny hop around town or just stand in place and jump repeatedly takes away from others game play.
Its a design choice, if they decide to add in jumping I'm sure they will have spent the time to implement it correctly, however if they do not there are a stack of reasons they have to point to when some people cry foul.
It's sloppy design to allow careless graphic design - OR an integral flaw in their engine.
The inablility to jump and swim removes those elements from gameplay. You can't have places that require jumping or swimming to access them, for example. Take a look at WoW's underwater areas and tell me you're not missing out being unable to swim.
The more gameplay options you have - the richer the potential experience.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Honestly I Loath every quest that requires me to go under water or through water to get to an island just to do a quest. I've hated it ever since DAOC when they did Trials of Atlantis.
If they let you do a jump for ENTIRELY cosmetic reasons would that satisfy you?
Then they have jumping, look at the video and you can see them dancing, which there is jumping in their dancing.
If you want there to be places to jump "to" then why not just have them able to be walked to instead? I don't see how jumping not being in the game detracts from the ability to explore, or how swimming adds to it.
If the same amount of "area" is available to be explored and the areas are diverse enough, then isn't the same goal achieved?
These are the ridiculous stuff in life that makes it intresting.
I firmly believe they will not add jump to this game, but I think jumping adds some kinda instinctive sense of freedom. Preliminary. I'll come with a conclusion when the game is out! Who else other than me can not wait for that next time crusher MMORPG to come out, where we can socialize, argument and flame eachother? I can see a discussion about jumping coming up next in-game.
"WTF, SE DID NOT ADD JUMP?"
"WTFGTFO, BACK TO WOW PLZ"
or counterwise. Watch out so I don't let my technoviking jump loose on you.
This is the best signature ever. Well, it is really up to you to decide. :x
im wondering what it is these 'jumpers' are wanting to jump over exactly.. its not mirrors edge after all.... next thing you know they'll be wanting crosshairs in the center of the screen.. oh wait.. its not an fps either..
Okay... I read it again, and there's nothing to think about... It's a ridiculous analogy.
Using the limitations placed on a paryalyzed person in real life, and their diminished quality of life as an argument for jumping in a video game is absurd.
It was an attempt on your part to give your argument more "impact", and a failed one at that. I'm typically cynical of human nature in general, but I'm fairly sure when asked, that few people would agree that not being able to jump in a video game is analagous to being physically handicapped and bound to a wheelchair in reality. I wouldn't be surprised if a few didn't take you or the question at all seriously.
Try this .... Talk to someone who is truly handicapped and bound to a wheelchar in real life, who can't even *walk* much less run or jump, and then tell them that it's just like not being able to jump in a video game, that the "quality of life" is diminished in a similar way... and be 100% serious about it. Tell me how they react.
You prefer jumping in a video game and feel it offers you more freedom during gameplay. Wonderful. You could simply say that without using handicapped people in real life to make your point.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I find it amazing that it's *so* important, and *so* crucial, and *so* critical to some peopel that they wouldn't play the game if it doesn't have it, or go so far as to say the game would be a failure... even in the face of other MMOs that have no jumping and have done just fine.
If the game design warrants it, then great...
This talk of "more freedom" and "more immersive" and "more realistic"....
What's funny about that last bit... "more realistic" is that some people will argue for jumping because it's "more realistic", but then will scoff when I suggest that more realistic jumping would include a stamina bar or something of that sort where each time you jump, it's depleted... if you jump repeatedly in rapid succession, it drops faster because you're wearing yourself out more quickly (just like in real life). Additionally, other tasks also require stamina so you need to make sure you don't blow thruogh it all or you might not have it when you really need it. Also, jumping should also potentially draw aggro... especially jumping near aggressive enemies. This way the player has to be careful of when they jump and time it right so as to not draw attention to themselves and/or their party members.
I would be perfectly fine with that.
Interestingly though... many of those who argue for jumping because they want "more realism" don't like the idea.
Wonder why that is?
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Well, of course it's a question of design, you could make a game that'd work with various sorts of movement designs after all... You could go isometric and just click-to-move; or you could throw out running and make everybody walk, or heck, you could even throw out walking backwards, and all of these different movement decisions can work given they fit the overall design.
Still, people are used to doing things, or controlling their in-game characters a certain way in MMOs. For example, you could make a case for the needlessness of strafing in an MMO, and you might turn out to be right, given the overall design of that game.... but if that game's generally similar to other MMOs, experienced players will probably feel the movement is awkward, maybe even stifling. That's because they'd have played enough MMOs that the character movement has largely become second nature to them, like an extension of their will, instead of something you consciously think about. So the absence of one of the basic forms of movement (namely jumping) will break that second-nature way of working and put the player ill at ease.
For myself, yeah, it's a bit like losing strafing to me. I can get used to its absence, but would much rather have it in.
Posted something in the other thread as well but It looks like its a no go on the jumping.
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AfN6nt7Y1BGiZGNwdGZ2N3BfMTdndm1kOGNnbQ&hl=en&pli=1
Because it is important to move around the world, he you can't even jump down 10cm in the ffxiv world. No sorry you can't go down there or up over there because the don't allow it.
For me you run into so many invisible walls because the program does not allow you to go this path down there because you have no way to jump down that way. Bad design. :P
NO!1!!!!!!11111!!!11eleventy1
But it doesn't matter the worlds been designed with it in mind, it's no big deal.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Jumping might be useless majority of the time, but so are a lot of things in an MMORPG. I tried to play FF11 back in the day and I stopped playing not because of the lack of the jump button, but because I was forced to party with people to get anything done, even simple kill quest.
I don't think having a lack of a jump button makes a game good or bad, but it is a lack of choice and MMO's are all about choices for me. I should have the choice to group up with people or not, I should have the choice to swim or not. I should have the choice to jump around like an idiot if I want.
The last problem with the lack of a jump mechanic makes the game bad for some people. The people that feel that way have a valid point. It is now 2010, not 1990, and Squaresoft isn't some low-budget game developer. They have the money and resources to include simple things like jump and swim into a game and they can make it look good and feel unique.
You resurrected this thread just for that?
WWHYY!?!
WHY?!!?!
Taru-Gallante-Blood elf-Elysean-Kelari-Crime Fighting-Imperial Agent
And thread necromanceing is a bad thing. I mean serious a first poster which pulls out a pretty old thread...
Because I read through all 15 pages and wanted to throw my own 2 cents in, Plus I read the rules of conduct and there is nothing about posting on a month old thread.
After a month old thread dies do you really think anyone cares about your opinion on the subject?
Its an account that was made today, there some hidden motive to reviving this thread.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
I hear there's a jump emote you can buy as DLC. If that's not enough for you, there's other ways to cope.
Atleast the rumor that FFXIV was developed in china hasnt leaked over to this board yet.... that caused a ruckas on the gamefaq boards.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
The true answer is yes you can jump in FFXIV but you have to enter up,down,left,traingle,square,left trigger,down,up,right,circle,x and right trigger to do it each time!