Also, EVE is a grind too (if you don't think so, you've never played it). You can't just instantly get into the top space ship... you need to grind for money, then grind TIME (real life time, in fact) to get the skills required to get into that given ship. Its still a grind, no matter how you want to look at it.... A grind doesn't have to be boring - I don't understand why those two words are always lumped together.
A grind is a grind if it takes times to accomplish something. Any level based game is a grind, its what other posters have said, how much of a grind is it?? That's the big question.
The time to level 1 - 80 in WoW is much longer than leveling 1-50 in Aion.... So, which one is more of a grind? WoW just has a way to make people believe they aren't grinding - due to many quests, dungeons, etc. They do that very well... make no mistake though... its still a grind.
I don't think there is one aspect in WOW that isn't a grind.
Arena- Grind for gear.
BGs- Grind for points.
Titles- grind for quests/dungeons to get those achievements (rarely ever a first time plus you might help someone who hasn't gotten it).
Raids- Enough said.
Mounts- same. Whether you can make one or buy one, you're grinding for it.
Levels- there is no 1 single path that will get you 80 from level 1, you are griding it.
Crafts- same. Farm for materials and mash that button at your friendly loom or alch table for hours on end. Especially when you do not always get a skill point per success/failure.
Gear- yeah, especially world drops that are tradeable.
Quests- most times you are collecting X item and those mobs don't always drop them.
And the single most commonly said thing in guild chat?
I don't think there is one aspect in WOW that isn't a grind. Arena- Grind for gear. BGs- Grind for points. Titles- grind for quests/dungeons to get those achievements (rarely ever a first time plus you might help someone who hasn't gotten it). Raids- Enough said. Mounts- same. Whether you can make one or buy one, you're grinding for it. Levels- there is no 1 single path that will get you 80 from level 1, you are griding it. Crafts- same. Farm for materials and mash that button at your friendly loom or alch table for hours on end. Especially when you do not always get a skill point per success/failure. Gear- yeah, especially world drops that are tradeable. Quests- most times you are collecting X item and those mobs don't always drop them. And the single most commonly said thing in guild chat? "Time to grind my dailies".
you Soup lol!
Please let me know what server you end up rolling on - we can start off by getting into a good legion and go looking for some trouble with the opposing faction heh heh heh
Yeah will do. I have also been trying to keep tabs on my old WOW guild since a few have mentioned trying Aion (played some CB weekends I guess). So I'm constantly just flitting back and forth between webpages and videos etc.
This is just a poor understanding of RPG's ...or poorly developed game, if as a player you will have to grind for anything at all..
There is alot o good RPG's where you do not have to make any "mundane tasks" ea kill 100 boars or repeat a quest 1000 times, or just plainly kill foes for the xp because "you have to".
Mostly grinding belongs to the MMORPG genre to lenghten the gameplay time because of monthly subscriptions..
So basically you are SOO wrong..
That said, many players still enjoy this type of gameplay
This is just a poor understanding of RPG's ...or poorly developed game, if as a player you will have to grind for anything at all.. There is alot o good RPG's where you do not have to make any "mundane tasks" ea kill 100 boars or repeat a quest 1000 times, or just plainly kill foes for the xp because "you have to". Mostly grinding belongs to the MMORPG genre to lenghten the gameplay time because of monthly subscriptions.. So basically you are SOO wrong.. That said, many players still enjoy this type of gameplay
Not disagreeing with you... but read the full thread.
Most everyone has said the OP means "MMO" and not "RPG"....
I'd agree with the OP completely . Also everything can be considered a grind in MMOs. You say you like doing quests, I find them a waste of time.Its a matter of opinion. I did grow up playing those "grindy games killing monsters" Iike L2 and asian MMO though..
If you don't like grinding, you shouldn't be playing RPGs, let alone MMORPGs. It's like playing Halo and saying "I don't like shooting".
Grinding is a time honoured RPG tradition. Why, I was just playing Final Fantasy VII on my PSP and I spend 3 hours grinding outside Wutai in order to level up my materia.
I have to agree, I don't mind the grind. I rather like blowing up tons of mobs on my Black Mage/Sorcerer/Wizard/Whathaveyou.
Questing is nice and all but I wouldn't be bothered one way or the other, I just like 'playing' the games.
If you don't like grinding, you shouldn't be playing RPGs, let alone MMORPGs. It's like playing Halo and saying "I don't like shooting". Grinding is a time honoured RPG tradition. Why, I was just playing Final Fantasy VII on my PSP and I spend 3 hours grinding outside Wutai in order to level up my materia.
I disagree. You suffer from a very limited perspective on RPGs. I have played PC RPGs since Ultima III and pen and paper before that. Many of the greatest PC RPG titles did have what most would consider a typical grind MMORPGs these days.
Grinding is also not a time-honored RPG tradition. It is what more hack'n'slash RPGs have often done. However, character advancement through XP does not necessarily mean that you have to "grind".
Tabletop RPG's aren't necessarily grinds because, well, they aren't automated. You have a DM controlling the choices you as a player get to make. Even hardcore raiders in WOW grind when they raid. Ask any player how many times they grinded BT just to get some illidan loot before sunwell came out.
And someone mentioned diablo and the lack of grinding? Yeah.. if you want to quit the game after beating it once on each difficulty level and let it collect dust. But if you want to attain max level? You're grinding it.
I have no idea what you replying to apart from rambling to yourself.
Of course there is grind in WoW and Diablo 2. Both are based on that type of gameplay even if WoW is slightly more sophisticated. Did not mention either of those.
I underlined the progress through the few chained quotes so you can get an idea of the conversation to help clear the confusion you claim to have. And in reference to Diablo and WoW, they were both "starting points" for many gamers that play today. So in that theory have set the standard.
Hope that clears things up for you.
There are many sub-genres under RPGs...many even do not consider games like Diablo as RPGs, but hack'n'slash games ala Gauntlet , at best they could be called Action-RPGs. Only RPG element those games have is the loot/spec aspect. And not all RPGs even need that.
There is a host of games like Baldur's Gate, Planetscape: Torment, System Shock, Neverwinter Nights, KOTOR, Mass Effect, Jade Empire, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallouts, Gothic, The Witcher, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines and so on.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
If you don't like grinding, you shouldn't be playing RPGs, let alone MMORPGs. It's like playing Halo and saying "I don't like shooting".
Grinding is a time honoured RPG tradition. Why, I was just playing Final Fantasy VII on my PSP and I spend 3 hours grinding outside Wutai in order to level up my materia.
RPGs should be a grind? Were games like Planescape Torment, Neverwinter Nights (especially the persistent Worlds focused on roleplaying) or Knights of the Old Republic a grind?
As someone already mentioned some posts earlier, change your topic's headline to "If you don't like grinding, you shouldn't be playing MMOs".
Funny you should mention Knights of the Old Republic. I just spent 2 hours grinding lightsaber crystals in that game.
"There are many sub-genres under RPGs...many even do not consider games like Diablo as RPGs, but hack'n'slash games ala Gauntlet , at best they could be called Action-RPGs. Only RPG element those games have is the loot/spec aspect. And not all RPGs even need that.
There is a host of games like Baldur's Gate, Planetscape: Torment, System Shock, Neverwinter Nights, KOTOR, Mass Effect, Jade Empire, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallouts, Gothic, The Witcher, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines and so on."
While I can appreciate your knowledge of played games (mimics my own) not one of those games resembles or is affiliated with anything remotely related to Aion, or has to do with an Aion message board. So while yes, technically in an argument you can be construed as right, but also as such do not have an open world in the same regards. You would have to initiate or join a lobby based system to construct a party and join an instance or splinter, of that same said game. And many of those same games you still grind, if you want to stay on that point of being technical.
Or atleast, when I played BG, NWN, Oblivion, Witcher, and VTM I had to grind various thigns be it a level or more gold. Most of the other games I played that you listed I did in fact treat it as an RPG and it is now collecting dust. Beaten, but not at max level. And not as competed with other people to attain a goal, but in single player.
I think the major point here, is the loosely used term "rpg" which is used in regards to "mmo" or "mmorpg" and not meant to be taken as a purist's definition.
Soupism, I am not interested in what you view as what counts as RPG or etymology of the word. My replies were in direct response to the OP's ignorant post. Perhaps, you should read that first?
Also, none of those games you mentioned require you to grind (as losely translated to the repetition of same content) unless you choose to. You can beat them with just playing through the content.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Soupism, I am not interested in what you view as what counts as RPG or etymology of the word. My replies were in direct response to the OP's ignorant post. Perhaps, you should read that first? Also, none of those games you mentioned require you to grind (as losely translated to the repetition of same content) unless you choose to. You can beat them with just playing through the content.
If you read the entire thread, you would realize that the OP was talking about MMO's and not RPGs... soup's reply was to try and clarifiy that but obviously even that went over your head.
Originally posted by Cammy If you read the entire thread, you would realize that the OP was talking about MMO's and not RPGs... soup's reply was to try and clarifiy that but obviously even that went over your head.
NVM.
I think he was quite clear in the original. If he wanted to clear that, he only had to edit the post.
"If you don't like grinding, you shouldn't be playing RPGs, let alone MMORPGs. It's like playing Halo and saying "I don't like shooting"."
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Well then why use a quote that reference's my posts then? And also, if those games are that much different than what Aion is about, then why bring them up? If you aren't interested in my views or opinions on the word or how it's defined, what exactly are you arguing?
The validity of the use of "rpg"? Or the validity of using "rpg" in reference to Aion?
Because of what you say is true, you are contradicting yourself. I don't think the TC started this thread in order to talk about various games that can be construed as "rpg" but in all actuality referenced Aion to be a "rpg" of which grinding is in FACT involved.
Just use cut/paste instead of the quote function if you are going to use someone else's reference and not stick to that topic.
Well then why use a quote that reference's my posts then? And also, if those games are that much different than what Aion is about, then why bring them up? If you aren't interested in my views or opinions on the word or how it's defined, what exactly are you arguing? The validity of the use of "rpg"? Or the validity of using "rpg" in reference to Aion? Because of what you say is true, you are contradicting yourself. I don't think the TC started this thread in order to talk about various games that can be construed as "rpg" but in all actuality referenced Aion to be a "rpg" of which grinding is in FACT involved. Just use cut/paste instead of the quote function if you are going to use someone else's reference and not stick to that topic.
I did not start quoting you (you quoted me), I quoted emotep, the OP.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
I'll admit, I didn't read the whole thread, so I apologize if this was said somewhere prior (these are my personal definitions):
RPG: Any game where the player assumes control of a character or characters and leads them along a line of progression and customization.
MMORPG: An game supporting a large-scale playerbase, where players work to progress and customize their respective character(s) in a shared persistent online world.
That progression can be through levels, stats, abilities, equipment, story, etc. It doesn't necessarily require a "grind" (by which I mean a series of tedious, repetitive, and nearly identical tasks). Most current games do, but I don't see why it isn't possible to design an MMORPG such that progression could happen without one. If you're arguing that people should avoid the MMOs currently on the market if they dislike any form of grinding, then I'd say whether the player chooses to make a grind of anything is ultimately up to them.
In my opinion, it is possible to make a mmo without a grind, but as is with any level based game, making such a game would be folly for a couple of reasons-
1)Player base. You couldn't keep players happy by removing any sort of grind (in respect to levels/xp) since the feeling of accomplisment would be lacking.
2)Revenue. Why would you, as a game creator, want to invest in a game that wouldn't bring any sort of profit margin since you would be hard pressed to develop a game that would attract that many people?
3)Longevity. The reason for grinds, and the difficulty to attain max level (which is always a goal) is to keep players playing.
Now don't get me wrong... anything IS possible... but are we wanting to argue for the sake of arguing, or argue the point of how well developed the game is? The depth and complexity have important roles in regards to whether you make a game worth paying for or not. And grinds usually are involved in that regards since you tend to create an economy, a hierarchy, and/or a challenge on a large scale to get many involved.
Despite any of your opinions as to what Grind means.
Grind:drudgery: hard monotonous routine work.
Monotonous:humdrum: tediously repetitious or lacking in variety
Now that you know what grind means, I can tell you I've never once done this in any MMO I've played. Just a list:
FFXI. MxO. SWG. WoW. Graalonline. Ryzom. Eve. CoH. CoV. Jumpgate. Lineage 2. and that one where you're basically a vehicle in a post-apocolyptic world. I forgot what it was called.
I can say I don't recall ever grinding in any of those. Why? because I don't do the same task repeatedly. I don't do the same raid constantly to 1 piece of item.
I do a mission, I go somewhere else. I do a raid, I go somewhere else. I go fishing, I go somewhere else. ect ect. It's not grinding if you're not doing the same task repeatedly. It's simply playing the game. Sometimes I'd just explore, wander around the terrain and see what I could find.
The point, is that I still leveled, I still had fun. I never had to grind. Maybe you reached the max level before I did, but I never hated playing. If I was ingame, I was more than likely having fun.
I don't complain about grinding, because I don't grind.
In my opinion, it is possible to make a mmo without a grind, but as is with any level based game, making such a game would be folly for a couple of reasons- 1)Player base. You couldn't keep players happy by removing any sort of grind (in respect to levels/xp) since the feeling of accomplisment would be lacking. 2)Revenue. Why would you, as a game creator, want to invest in a game that wouldn't bring any sort of profit margin since you would be hard pressed to develop a game that would attract that many people? 3)Longevity. The reason for grinds, and the difficulty to attain max level (which is always a goal) is to keep players playing. Now don't get me wrong... anything IS possible... but are we wanting to argue for the sake of arguing, or argue the point of how well developed the game is? The depth and complexity have important roles in regards to whether you make a game worth paying for or not. And grinds usually are involved in that regards since you tend to create an economy, a hierarchy, and/or a challenge on a large scale to get many involved. No one wants to spend $15/month to play Tetris.
If I didn't grind in WOW, I'd still be level 7 with 50g. If you played WOW with any sort of sincerity, you were grinding. Might not have dreaded it, even might have enjoyed it, but you still did it. Even if you took 2 years to level cap. You HAD to had some sort of goal, and grinding is required for any of them lol.
Too many people here use literal translations of words to argue. Anyone who HAS to use literal translations for that purpose aren't experienced in that field. Period. Otherwise it wouldn't be such an issue to give the impression you are better for it.
In my opinion, it is possible to make a mmo without a grind, but as is with any level based game, making such a game would be folly for a couple of reasons- 1)Player base. You couldn't keep players happy by removing any sort of grind (in respect to levels/xp) since the feeling of accomplisment would be lacking. 2)Revenue. Why would you, as a game creator, want to invest in a game that wouldn't bring any sort of profit margin since you would be hard pressed to develop a game that would attract that many people? 3)Longevity. The reason for grinds, and the difficulty to attain max level (which is always a goal) is to keep players playing. Now don't get me wrong... anything IS possible... but are we wanting to argue for the sake of arguing, or argue the point of how well developed the game is? The depth and complexity have important roles in regards to whether you make a game worth paying for or not. And grinds usually are involved in that regards since you tend to create an economy, a hierarchy, and/or a challenge on a large scale to get many involved. No one wants to spend $15/month to play Tetris.
That's why you don't make it level-based .
Sure. Just don't expect revenue or a huge fan base lol. But for flavor of the month games, I guess it could work. Look how Aeria makes games and they are still level based, yet free to play. I just hope Aion is destined for something a bit better than that =P.
If you don't like grinding, you shouldn't be playing RPGs, let alone MMORPGs. It's like playing Halo and saying "I don't like shooting".
Grinding is a time honoured RPG tradition. Why, I was just playing Final Fantasy VII on my PSP and I spend 3 hours grinding outside Wutai in order to level up my materia.
LOL...this is a typical Aion fanboi post regarding how gind heavy Aion is compared to other MMO's on the market. And before the Aion Fanboi's come on and start hating on me, I plan on playing Aion at launch, so I want this game to succceed. Just don't come on the message boards and pretend that Aion is NOT grind heavy. Have some integrity and call a spade a spade.
Comments
This....
Also, EVE is a grind too (if you don't think so, you've never played it). You can't just instantly get into the top space ship... you need to grind for money, then grind TIME (real life time, in fact) to get the skills required to get into that given ship. Its still a grind, no matter how you want to look at it.... A grind doesn't have to be boring - I don't understand why those two words are always lumped together.
A grind is a grind if it takes times to accomplish something. Any level based game is a grind, its what other posters have said, how much of a grind is it?? That's the big question.
The time to level 1 - 80 in WoW is much longer than leveling 1-50 in Aion.... So, which one is more of a grind? WoW just has a way to make people believe they aren't grinding - due to many quests, dungeons, etc. They do that very well... make no mistake though... its still a grind.
I don't think there is one aspect in WOW that isn't a grind.
Arena- Grind for gear.
BGs- Grind for points.
Titles- grind for quests/dungeons to get those achievements (rarely ever a first time plus you might help someone who hasn't gotten it).
Raids- Enough said.
Mounts- same. Whether you can make one or buy one, you're grinding for it.
Levels- there is no 1 single path that will get you 80 from level 1, you are griding it.
Crafts- same. Farm for materials and mash that button at your friendly loom or alch table for hours on end. Especially when you do not always get a skill point per success/failure.
Gear- yeah, especially world drops that are tradeable.
Quests- most times you are collecting X item and those mobs don't always drop them.
And the single most commonly said thing in guild chat?
"Time to grind my dailies".
Please let me know what server you end up rolling on - we can start off by getting into a good legion and go looking for some trouble with the opposing faction
heh heh heh
Yeah will do. I have also been trying to keep tabs on my old WOW guild since a few have mentioned trying Aion (played some CB weekends I guess). So I'm constantly just flitting back and forth between webpages and videos etc.
This is just a poor understanding of RPG's ...or poorly developed game, if as a player you will have to grind for anything at all..
There is alot o good RPG's where you do not have to make any "mundane tasks" ea kill 100 boars or repeat a quest 1000 times, or just plainly kill foes for the xp because "you have to".
Mostly grinding belongs to the MMORPG genre to lenghten the gameplay time because of monthly subscriptions..
So basically you are SOO wrong..
That said, many players still enjoy this type of gameplay
Not disagreeing with you... but read the full thread.
Most everyone has said the OP means "MMO" and not "RPG"....
I'd agree with the OP completely . Also everything can be considered a grind in MMOs. You say you like doing quests, I find them a waste of time.Its a matter of opinion. I did grow up playing those "grindy games killing monsters" Iike L2 and asian MMO though..
I have to agree, I don't mind the grind. I rather like blowing up tons of mobs on my Black Mage/Sorcerer/Wizard/Whathaveyou.
Questing is nice and all but I wouldn't be bothered one way or the other, I just like 'playing' the games.
I disagree. You suffer from a very limited perspective on RPGs. I have played PC RPGs since Ultima III and pen and paper before that. Many of the greatest PC RPG titles did have what most would consider a typical grind MMORPGs these days.
Grinding is also not a time-honored RPG tradition. It is what more hack'n'slash RPGs have often done. However, character advancement through XP does not necessarily mean that you have to "grind".
Tabletop RPG's aren't necessarily grinds because, well, they aren't automated. You have a DM controlling the choices you as a player get to make. Even hardcore raiders in WOW grind when they raid. Ask any player how many times they grinded BT just to get some illidan loot before sunwell came out.
And someone mentioned diablo and the lack of grinding? Yeah.. if you want to quit the game after beating it once on each difficulty level and let it collect dust. But if you want to attain max level? You're grinding it.
I have no idea what you replying to apart from rambling to yourself.
Of course there is grind in WoW and Diablo 2. Both are based on that type of gameplay even if WoW is slightly more sophisticated. Did not mention either of those.
I underlined the progress through the few chained quotes so you can get an idea of the conversation to help clear the confusion you claim to have. And in reference to Diablo and WoW, they were both "starting points" for many gamers that play today. So in that theory have set the standard.
Hope that clears things up for you.
There are many sub-genres under RPGs...many even do not consider games like Diablo as RPGs, but hack'n'slash games ala Gauntlet , at best they could be called Action-RPGs. Only RPG element those games have is the loot/spec aspect. And not all RPGs even need that.
There is a host of games like Baldur's Gate, Planetscape: Torment, System Shock, Neverwinter Nights, KOTOR, Mass Effect, Jade Empire, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallouts, Gothic, The Witcher, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines and so on.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
RPGs should be a grind? Were games like Planescape Torment, Neverwinter Nights (especially the persistent Worlds focused on roleplaying) or Knights of the Old Republic a grind?
As someone already mentioned some posts earlier, change your topic's headline to "If you don't like grinding, you shouldn't be playing MMOs".
Funny you should mention Knights of the Old Republic. I just spent 2 hours grinding lightsaber crystals in that game.
FFVII is a single player RPG.
"There are many sub-genres under RPGs...many even do not consider games like Diablo as RPGs, but hack'n'slash games ala Gauntlet , at best they could be called Action-RPGs. Only RPG element those games have is the loot/spec aspect. And not all RPGs even need that.
There is a host of games like Baldur's Gate, Planetscape: Torment, System Shock, Neverwinter Nights, KOTOR, Mass Effect, Jade Empire, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallouts, Gothic, The Witcher, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines and so on."
While I can appreciate your knowledge of played games (mimics my own) not one of those games resembles or is affiliated with anything remotely related to Aion, or has to do with an Aion message board. So while yes, technically in an argument you can be construed as right, but also as such do not have an open world in the same regards. You would have to initiate or join a lobby based system to construct a party and join an instance or splinter, of that same said game. And many of those same games you still grind, if you want to stay on that point of being technical.
Or atleast, when I played BG, NWN, Oblivion, Witcher, and VTM I had to grind various thigns be it a level or more gold. Most of the other games I played that you listed I did in fact treat it as an RPG and it is now collecting dust. Beaten, but not at max level. And not as competed with other people to attain a goal, but in single player.
I think the major point here, is the loosely used term "rpg" which is used in regards to "mmo" or "mmorpg" and not meant to be taken as a purist's definition.
Soupism, I am not interested in what you view as what counts as RPG or etymology of the word. My replies were in direct response to the OP's ignorant post. Perhaps, you should read that first?
Also, none of those games you mentioned require you to grind (as losely translated to the repetition of same content) unless you choose to. You can beat them with just playing through the content.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
If you read the entire thread, you would realize that the OP was talking about MMO's and not RPGs... soup's reply was to try and clarifiy that but obviously even that went over your head.
NVM.
I think he was quite clear in the original. If he wanted to clear that, he only had to edit the post.
"If you don't like grinding, you shouldn't be playing RPGs, let alone MMORPGs. It's like playing Halo and saying "I don't like shooting"."
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Well then why use a quote that reference's my posts then? And also, if those games are that much different than what Aion is about, then why bring them up? If you aren't interested in my views or opinions on the word or how it's defined, what exactly are you arguing?
The validity of the use of "rpg"? Or the validity of using "rpg" in reference to Aion?
Because of what you say is true, you are contradicting yourself. I don't think the TC started this thread in order to talk about various games that can be construed as "rpg" but in all actuality referenced Aion to be a "rpg" of which grinding is in FACT involved.
Just use cut/paste instead of the quote function if you are going to use someone else's reference and not stick to that topic.
I did not start quoting you (you quoted me), I quoted emotep, the OP.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
This conversation is spiderwebbing I think. Too many quotes lol.
I'll admit, I didn't read the whole thread, so I apologize if this was said somewhere prior (these are my personal definitions):
RPG: Any game where the player assumes control of a character or characters and leads them along a line of progression and customization.
MMORPG: An game supporting a large-scale playerbase, where players work to progress and customize their respective character(s) in a shared persistent online world.
That progression can be through levels, stats, abilities, equipment, story, etc. It doesn't necessarily require a "grind" (by which I mean a series of tedious, repetitive, and nearly identical tasks). Most current games do, but I don't see why it isn't possible to design an MMORPG such that progression could happen without one. If you're arguing that people should avoid the MMOs currently on the market if they dislike any form of grinding, then I'd say whether the player chooses to make a grind of anything is ultimately up to them.
In my opinion, it is possible to make a mmo without a grind, but as is with any level based game, making such a game would be folly for a couple of reasons-
1)Player base. You couldn't keep players happy by removing any sort of grind (in respect to levels/xp) since the feeling of accomplisment would be lacking.
2)Revenue. Why would you, as a game creator, want to invest in a game that wouldn't bring any sort of profit margin since you would be hard pressed to develop a game that would attract that many people?
3)Longevity. The reason for grinds, and the difficulty to attain max level (which is always a goal) is to keep players playing.
Now don't get me wrong... anything IS possible... but are we wanting to argue for the sake of arguing, or argue the point of how well developed the game is? The depth and complexity have important roles in regards to whether you make a game worth paying for or not. And grinds usually are involved in that regards since you tend to create an economy, a hierarchy, and/or a challenge on a large scale to get many involved.
No one wants to spend $15/month to play Tetris.
Despite any of your opinions as to what Grind means.
Grind:drudgery: hard monotonous routine work.
Monotonous:humdrum: tediously repetitious or lacking in variety
Now that you know what grind means, I can tell you I've never once done this in any MMO I've played. Just a list:
FFXI. MxO. SWG. WoW. Graalonline. Ryzom. Eve. CoH. CoV. Jumpgate. Lineage 2. and that one where you're basically a vehicle in a post-apocolyptic world. I forgot what it was called.
I can say I don't recall ever grinding in any of those. Why? because I don't do the same task repeatedly. I don't do the same raid constantly to 1 piece of item.
I do a mission, I go somewhere else. I do a raid, I go somewhere else. I go fishing, I go somewhere else. ect ect. It's not grinding if you're not doing the same task repeatedly. It's simply playing the game. Sometimes I'd just explore, wander around the terrain and see what I could find.
The point, is that I still leveled, I still had fun. I never had to grind. Maybe you reached the max level before I did, but I never hated playing. If I was ingame, I was more than likely having fun.
I don't complain about grinding, because I don't grind.
That's why you don't make it level-based
.
Ziva, our playstyles are very similar.
And the super awesome MMO you are referring to is Auto Assault, I believe.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
If I didn't grind in WOW, I'd still be level 7 with 50g. If you played WOW with any sort of sincerity, you were grinding. Might not have dreaded it, even might have enjoyed it, but you still did it. Even if you took 2 years to level cap. You HAD to had some sort of goal, and grinding is required for any of them lol.
Too many people here use literal translations of words to argue. Anyone who HAS to use literal translations for that purpose aren't experienced in that field. Period. Otherwise it wouldn't be such an issue to give the impression you are better for it.
=P
That's why you don't make it level-based
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Sure. Just don't expect revenue or a huge fan base lol. But for flavor of the month games, I guess it could work. Look how Aeria makes games and they are still level based, yet free to play. I just hope Aion is destined for something a bit better than that =P.
LOL...this is a typical Aion fanboi post regarding how gind heavy Aion is compared to other MMO's on the market. And before the Aion Fanboi's come on and start hating on me, I plan on playing Aion at launch, so I want this game to succceed. Just don't come on the message boards and pretend that Aion is NOT grind heavy. Have some integrity and call a spade a spade.