/Pray yeah hope they do someting or atleast a new monsterish race xD
The game is still in development so there's a possibility and that would make many people happy plus finally the customization in the game will be better then old FF XI which is even better keep it up SE!
/Pray yeah hope they do someting or atleast a new monsterish race xD The game is still in development so there's a possibility and that would make many people happy plus finally the customization in the game will be better then old FF XI which is even better keep it up SE!
I wouldnt say they are still in development. They probably fine tweaking the game for Beta but I would assume that they are in Alpha 3 right now. Especially with the fact that they have the intent on going to Beta longer than they did with FFXi. We could see Beta before the end of the year. But i doubt that they are going to do anymore implementation other that asthetics and tweaks to the game.
Nah don't think they already finished the game yet they are probably bug fixing, adding content, mobs, quests, cutscenes and finalizing the game till closed beta starts to further test for bug fixes so there's still a chance, small but there is.
Errrr... You kinda contradicted yourself there. You were hoping for a truly new feel to the FF universe... but were hoping they'd introduce Ivalice races...? If it were Ivalice races, the game would likely be on Ivalice.... which wouldn't be a "new feel to the FF universe".
Ummm.... not really. I think most people were able to tell that I was speaking of a new feel for the FF universe in an MMO given the context (you know, as opposed to something that already feels so similar for a FF MMO). But if you want to play semantics, feel free. It just makes it look like you don't have a valid argument.
However, having said that, I can totally understand why some people would disagree with me and prefer the same races. And I totally respect that. What I don't respect is blind loyalty and the fact that some people feel if you say anything negative about whatever they are blindly loyal about, they are going to become upset with you.
In other words, if Square decided to make male mithra and female galka, and if someone made a post saying they thought it was a bad idea to have both genders, I am sure some of the very people in this thread defending the single gender races would suddenly be defending the idea of having both genders. Why? Because instead of actually thinking about the issue and making a judgement on their own, they choose to be blindly loyal to whatever Square decides.
Hey, I'm certainly looking forward to giving this game a try. And yes, I have faith in Square. But that doesn't mean I, or anyone else, need to be blindly loyal to every single decision that is made.
And when a thread is created asking for people's opinions, don't let it upset you so much.
Ummm.... not really. I think most people were able to tell that I was speaking of a new feel for the FF universe in an MMO given the context (you know, as opposed to something that already feels so similar for a FF MMO). But if you want to play semantics, feel free. It just makes it look like you don't have a valid argument.
However, having said that, I can totally understand why some people would disagree with me and prefer the same races. And I totally respect that. What I don't respect is blind loyalty and the fact that some people feel if you say anything negative about whatever they are blindly loyal about, they are going to become upset with you.
In other words, if Square decided to make male mithra and female galka, and if someone made a post saying they thought it was a bad idea to have both genders, I am sure some of the very people in this thread defending the single gender races would suddenly be defending the idea of having both genders. Why? Because instead of actually thinking about the issue and making a judgement on their own, they choose to be blindly loyal to whatever Square decides.
Hey, I'm certainly looking forward to giving this game a try. And yes, I have faith in Square. But that doesn't mean I, or anyone else, need to be blindly loyal to every single decision that is made.
And when a thread is created asking for people's opinions, don't let it upset you so much.
I completely agree with this. I have a feeling that if SE had announced that FFXIV was going to include both genders for Mi'Qote and Roegadyn, all the naysayers to this thread would have agreed just as easily and supported dual gendering simply because it was SE's decision. whats going to be funny is when SE actually announces that both genders will be included in FFXIV as a surprise, and all the people on this thread arguing to keep single gendered Mi'qote and Roegadyn will realize how much of a joke their arguments were.
Errrr... You kinda contradicted yourself there. You were hoping for a truly new feel to the FF universe... but were hoping they'd introduce Ivalice races...? If it were Ivalice races, the game would likely be on Ivalice.... which wouldn't be a "new feel to the FF universe".
Ummm.... not really. I think most people were able to tell that I was speaking of a new feel for the FF universe in an MMO given the context (you know, as opposed to something that already feels so similar for a FF MMO). But if you want to play semantics, feel free. It just makes it look like you don't have a valid argument.
"Playing semantics"?
So, you feel it's more reasonable to assume everyone will intuitively know specifically what you mean, than it is for you to be more specific in your posts...
Smells like a cop-out to me.
Incidentally I wasn't "attacking" you, nor was I even "making an argument"... valid, invalid or otherwise... about that particular paragraph. I merely pointed out an apparent inconsistency I saw. A simple clarification would have sufficed; like "oh, I was referring to MMOs in particular". The way you chose to reply, however, makes you kinda look like a dick.
But your replies, especially your last one, make you seem like such a classy guy...
Don't worry, I won't stoop to your level of name calling. I really don't care if someone like you dislikes me.
Originally posted by KupoKupopo I can totally understand why some people would disagree with me and prefer the same races. And I totally respect that. What I don't respect is blind loyalty and the fact that some people feel if you say anything negative about whatever they are blindly loyal about, they are going to become upset with you. I am sure some of the very people in this thread defending the single gender races would suddenly be defending the idea of having both genders. Why? Because instead of actually thinking about the issue and making a judgement on their own, they choose to be blindly loyal to whatever Square decides.
I completely agree with this. I have a feeling that if SE had announced that FFXIV was going to include both genders for Mi'Qote and Roegadyn, all the naysayers to this thread would have agreed just as easily and supported dual gendering simply because it was SE's decision. whats going to be funny is when SE actually announces that both genders will be included in FFXIV as a surprise, and all the people on this thread arguing to keep single gendered Mi'qote and Roegadyn will realize how much of a joke their arguments were.
It's neither about blind loyalty to SE or being a gutless flipflopper. It's more the fact that these races are being reintroduced as-is. It's not a point that XI is a "different world", fact remains that these are essentially the same characters intended to carry over nothing more than a next-gen FFXI feel. Not the entire game, but mainly these races. Should the gender-exclusive races lose that exclusivity I'll be upset with the decision. SE obviously wanted to carry this theme into FFXIV, hence their current display.
But whatever, you can have your male Miqo'te (honestly I hear crickets when it comes to female Roegadyn), but you'll still be playing as a female when their female agility is higher than that of your male's, because it makes for a better NIN, or whatever the case may be.
If they made Miqo'te male from the beginning of FFXIV announcements I would have no complaints. If they made Roegadyn female from the beginning, I would have no compliants there either. Because 1) Miqo'te sounds more masculine than Mitrha and Roegadyn sounds more feminine than Galka, and 2) It would have showed that in what SE intended from the beginning. But I think they would both STILL be gender-exclusive. And being happy with that decision is not being "blindly loyal" but more accepting of the fact that they are going to do what they are going to do in spite of you. Thus if and when they are announced I WILL eat my words with some sugar and vitamin-C, but until then I don't think they will, don't think they should, and don't think it's really worth debating seeing as how nobody knows and what's for display is there.
Just as there ARE those zealous followers of SE, there are ALSO those who rebel just to rebel. And, to quote one of my favorite bands, "You'll rebel to anything as long as it's not challenging." I could easily jump on the gender bandwagon but I'd rather see playable rodent Qiqirn or primate Genome to compensate for the female feline advantages than Manthra, adding an infinitely more dynamic and quality role-playing aspect than a few furry freaks ever could.
Take that however you want. I'm decidedly Elzen so the choice on whether or not to add them really doesn't affect me in any way. I don't play Mithra / Miqo'te, so I'm unbiased, which is more than I can say for all the "naysayers" of leaving things as they are, and instead ruining two adventuring cultures simultatneously.
I wouldn't expect to see male Miqo'te until sometime much later in the game, perhaps as a novelty prestige class, something you'll have to unlock and restart from ground zero, since male adventurers are far more rare than females. For nothing but a few stat bonuses really. Like the Drow Elves of DDO. By the time I'm able to play one I don't really give a shit. To much work going through the same crap just to be the uber-1337 ranger.
Speaking of prestige classes, I'd like to think there were a wide variety of these, but that's not SE's motiff so we probably won't see it. Oh well...
Originally posted by Gameslave It's neither about blind loyalty to SE or being a gutless flipflopper. It's more the fact that these races are being reintroduced as-is. It's not a point that XI is a "different world", fact remains that these are essentially the same characters intended to carry over nothing more than a next-gen FFXI feel. Not the entire game, but mainly these races. Should the gender-exclusive races lose that exclusivity I'll be upset with the decision. SE obviously wanted to carry this theme into FFXIV, hence their current display. But whatever, you can have your male Miqo'te (honestly I hear crickets when it comes to female Roegadyn), but you'll still be playing as a female when their female agility is higher than that of your male's, because it makes for a better NIN, or whatever the case may be. If they made Miqo'te male from the beginning of FFXIV announcements I would have no complaints. If they made Roegadyn female from the beginning, I would have no compliants there either. Because 1) Miqo'te sounds more masculine than Mitrha and Roegadyn sounds more feminine than Galka, and 2) It would have showed that in what SE intended from the beginning. But I think they would both STILL be gender-exclusive. And being happy with that decision is not being "blindly loyal" but more accepting of the fact that they are going to do what they are going to do in spite of you. Thus if and when they are announced I WILL eat my words with some sugar and vitamin-C, but until then I don't think they will, don't think they should, and don't think it's really worth debating seeing as how nobody knows and what's for display is there.
So you would care, but you wouldnt care? lol.
Either way you contradicted yourself. And anyway the creators already told us that the central theme around this game was "Growth". with this in mind, it wouldnt make very much sense to NOT expect an expansion on the already playable races from FFXI.
Thus far there has been no definitive explanation directly from the creators as to what their plans are with the gender exclusive races from FFXI being carried over into FFXIV. all we've SEEN are their pictures in the gender specific models and thus have assumed there won't be more. and as far as i can tell you've just taken that assumption and tried to rationalize from what you think their perspective is. maybe your right. maybe not. I'm still standing by my argument that this game would be made vastly more diverse with the inclusion of both genders for all races, and I'm curious to see how many agree with me on this.
I'm not stating my argument just to "rebel", I'm stating my argument because I really care about this game and think it would benefit greatly from this kind of addition. obviously they are going to do what they are going to do, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't voice our opinions. thats what this forum is here for, i would expect you needn't be reminded of that.
Precisely. Can I not be expectant and indifferent at the same time? Everyone is a hypocrite, so what's the use in pointing out that quaint little slip as if it invalidated their perspective?
As for the concept of "growth" I think you might have taken it out of context, and it wouldn't be the first time someone misinterpreted or mistranslated SE. It could just as easily refer to the size of the new Roegadyn who dwarf the former Galka, or the Lallafel who have evolved from Taru, or the overall maturity this new MMORPG seems to be bringing to the table. But since it was mentioned in the context of character development, not character creation, it could simply imply the armoury system, and nothing more. Instead of crediting the speculation and rumors I'm only going by what's announced via the official website, which hints toward nothing. And as far as growth is concerned, first you need something to grow from. Releasing everything at the start would not be smart on SE's part. As I expect (if you actually read the eintrety of my post) as a 2nd or 3rd expansion the addition of male Miqo'te is feasible, but not so much at launch. Releasing this as a late addition would give some players reason to keep playing and others reason to come back, giving us something to cling to, milking us for all we're worth.
I don't assume to rationalize my own point of view; instead I assume nothing. That is where our arguments differ, which is why I believe my points are (only slightly) more rational. Retiring the gender-exclusives won't make the world "vastly diverse" imo - only slightly. It's still the same song & dance. However adding entirely new races will. I too care about the game as well as the players, but the quality of both at once, and so I hold SE to high standards. Since The Spirits Within they have been doing some unpredictable, crazy, and off the wall things, taking leaps of faith where some pay off and others don't. They aren't afraid to experiment or take chances. Releasing all genders playable is not all that shocking. In fact, it's safe. And given their track record and what we've witness of XIV so far, they don't seem too concerned about safety at this point.
As easy as it is to say they should include males and females, it's harder for people to accept why they won't (or why they haven't). Right now "keep your hopes up" sounds like nothing more than bait. They fail to mention how long we might be hanging by that thread of hope. Honestly if everyone agreed on ridding the gender-exclusives this thread would be rather dull. I've gotten tired of arguing that these changes shouldn't happen, so instead I'm offering my objectional perspective on how it should happen. It makes for more interesting conversation, which is what these forums are for. I would expect you needn't be reminded of that. ;p
Edit: Case in point~
1st post - "Yeah! What's wrong with male kittens?"
2nd post - "Sure, I'd like to play a cat."
3rd post - "Manthra rule, lolz."
4th post - "Hey, it's about time! Rock on!"
5th post - "OMG OMG OMG OMFGYUSSSS!"
Dull. The most prominent disgrace to the lore of the Mithra / Miqo'te race is that more males play them than females, trashing the lore of these character concepts. The scarce feminine feline population will ruin their history, and how does that help a game just to satisfy a few players?
Errrr... You kinda contradicted yourself there. You were hoping for a truly new feel to the FF universe... but were hoping they'd introduce Ivalice races...? If it were Ivalice races, the game would likely be on Ivalice.... which wouldn't be a "new feel to the FF universe".
Ummm.... not really. I think most people were able to tell that I was speaking of a new feel for the FF universe in an MMO given the context (you know, as opposed to something that already feels so similar for a FF MMO). But if you want to play semantics, feel free. It just makes it look like you don't have a valid argument.
"Playing semantics"?
So, you feel it's more reasonable to assume everyone will intuitively know specifically what you mean, than it is for you to be more specific in your posts...
Smells like a cop-out to me.
Incidentally I wasn't "attacking" you, nor was I even "making an argument"... valid, invalid or otherwise... about that particular paragraph. I merely pointed out an apparent inconsistency I saw. A simple clarification would have sufficed; like "oh, I was referring to MMOs in particular". The way you chose to reply, however, makes you kinda look like a dick.
But your replies, especially your last one, make you seem like such a classy guy...
Don't worry, I won't stoop to your level of name calling. I really don't care if someone like you dislikes me.
Have a nice day
lol? What are you talking about? Stoop to what level?
No name-calling here. I pointed out that the way you chose to respond - your demeanor - made you *look* like a dick. I didn't say you *were* one. There's a distinct difference between the two. That's not "stooping" to any level.
I guess this time I'm at fault for assuming you'd know the difference. Though I think you do.
But just in case...
Example: If you tell someone they're acting like an idiot... are you calling them an idiot personally? No, you aren't. You're describing their behavior. Obvious difference, yes?
But it's fine. You've demonstrated your attitude quite clearly, twice now, and I'm better off for knowing.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
If Square Enix plans on implementing it then they do. Who gives a crap? Seriously, if you want to play a Male Miqo'te then play one. If you dont you dont. Its as simple as that. There isnt any complication in that thought whatsoever. If you find its not for you then play something else. Its called the freedom of choice. Play what you will and enjoy it. Dont let anyone dictate anything to you and you can have fun without repercussions. Ignore the useless banter about why it would be stupid or why Square should not do this or that. Take it for what it is and move on. No point getting yourself caught up in a useless battle of wits with someone that isnt willing to see your view on things.
If Square Enix plans on implementing it then they do. Who gives a crap? Seriously, if you want to play a Male Miqo'te then play one. If you dont you dont. Its as simple as that. There isnt any complication in that thought whatsoever. If you find its not for you then play something else. Its called the freedom of choice. Play what you will and enjoy it. Dont let anyone dictate anything to you and you can have fun without repercussions. Ignore the useless banter about why it would be stupid or why Square should not do this or that. Take it for what it is and move on. No point getting yourself caught up in a useless battle of wits with someone that isnt willing to see your view on things.
This is just something for me to do while I'm at work. ;p
Truth be known, I would have preferred an "Ivalice Online" over these races again.
Never liked any of 'em except for Tarus and of course, Humans. (Gotta have humans!).
What I really would have liked would have been an entirely new look, but sticking with FF tradition of re-interpreting classic myths and legends from earthly lore.
I am also sick and tired of Elves vs. Orcs (although FFXI orcs were possibly the most original design I've seen yet in fantasy).
I would have loved to have been a moogle (like the ones from XII.. best design!)
If they add(ed) male Miqo'te and female Roegadyn, it'd be great. If they don't... then that's fine, too. If they created entirely new races from scratch, I'd find something I liked in that setup as well.
As long as the races look good and play well... I will find something I like and can enjoy playing.
What most concerns me is the world I'm playing them in.. *That's* what I'm most, personally, concerned about. Coming from SE, though, and based on how much I enjoyed exploring and adventuring in Vana'diel, I feel fairly confident that I'm going to enjoy my time in Eorzea as well.
But, as for the races... yeah... I think whatever they do, people will settle in and find something they can enjoy playing.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Originally posted by Gameslave Dull. The most prominent disgrace to the lore of the Mithra / Miqo'te race is that more males play them than females, trashing the lore of these character concepts. The scarce feminine feline population will ruin their history, and how does that help a game just to satisfy a few players?
Here you're placing the sake of the "Game" itself and its "Lore" over the experience of the game's community. Which is fine fine for the most part. When someone doesn't like part of a painting he's looking at, he doesn't get to call up the painter and have him come in to re-paint it. The painting is a piece of art, not subject to be changed by someone with a differing opinion. But the essence of what a painting is, and the rules applied to it, isn't the same as an MMORPG.
An MMORPG's job at its core is a community facilitator. A Metaphorical world that provides a place for community to thrive and grow through freedom of choice. Truly, when an MMO is doing its job right, everyone who has a DIFFERENT opinion of what an mmo SHOULD be, is playing it.
Now, I'm not saying that FFXIV shouldn't be respected and valued as a work of art. But when those pieces of it considered "untouchable" and "art" start to interfere with its job as an MMO by limiting expected freedoms and aggravating its community, something is wrong and voices like mine are inevitably emergent.
In the end, I think our viewpoints are more similar than we think they are. Your suggestion of an in game "unlockable" male Mi'Qote race would be a cool solution to this problem. Also adding a new race would be quite appropriate as well. The artistic integrity of the game need not be sacrificed fully for the sake of a few players. but its all about finding a balance.
No name-calling here. I pointed out that the way you chose to respond - your demeanor - made you *look* like a dick. I didn't say you *were* one. There's a distinct difference between the two. That's not "stooping" to any level.
I guess this time I'm at fault for assuming you'd know the difference. Though I think you do.
But just in case...
Example: If you tell someone they're acting like an idiot... are you calling them an idiot personally? No, you aren't. You're describing their behavior. Obvious difference, yes?
But it's fine. You've demonstrated your attitude quite clearly, twice now, and I'm better off for knowing.
Ha! More semantics! Hilarious but I actually expected it from you...
Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?
So you are saying it is not name calling if I, theoretically, say you sound like a completely ignorant, immature idiot who clearly thinks he sounds intelligent but actually looks like a buffoon to others?
Really? That's not name calling?
So any time you don't have a good argument and you want to resort to name calling you just put "sound like" or "look like" in front of it and it takes on a totally different meaning, right? I bet you actually think you are quite brilliant for thinking up such an "awesome strategy" to insult people without them knowing it. I'm sure no first grader has ever thought of that one before (please note the sarcasm).
Anyway, I have enough respect for the rest of this community to end this off-topic flame war here. You have started up with me multiple times now but feel free to have the last word and flame me all you want. Every post you make just makes me laugh anyway. But now, you have become a bore and a distraction to this thread (which I am sure you wanted all along) so I am done talking to you.
Comments
/Pray yeah hope they do someting or atleast a new monsterish race xD
The game is still in development so there's a possibility and that would make many people happy plus finally the customization in the game will be better then old FF XI which is even better keep it up SE!
I wouldnt say they are still in development. They probably fine tweaking the game for Beta but I would assume that they are in Alpha 3 right now. Especially with the fact that they have the intent on going to Beta longer than they did with FFXi. We could see Beta before the end of the year. But i doubt that they are going to do anymore implementation other that asthetics and tweaks to the game.
They were actually higher MND and STR, with VIT also a bit above average. In fact, they were the ideal Monks, as well as Paladins.
^intended for Bloodaxes
Nah don't think they already finished the game yet they are probably bug fixing, adding content, mobs, quests, cutscenes and finalizing the game till closed beta starts to further test for bug fixes so there's still a chance, small but there is.
Ummm.... not really. I think most people were able to tell that I was speaking of a new feel for the FF universe in an MMO given the context (you know, as opposed to something that already feels so similar for a FF MMO). But if you want to play semantics, feel free. It just makes it look like you don't have a valid argument.
However, having said that, I can totally understand why some people would disagree with me and prefer the same races. And I totally respect that. What I don't respect is blind loyalty and the fact that some people feel if you say anything negative about whatever they are blindly loyal about, they are going to become upset with you.
In other words, if Square decided to make male mithra and female galka, and if someone made a post saying they thought it was a bad idea to have both genders, I am sure some of the very people in this thread defending the single gender races would suddenly be defending the idea of having both genders. Why? Because instead of actually thinking about the issue and making a judgement on their own, they choose to be blindly loyal to whatever Square decides.
Hey, I'm certainly looking forward to giving this game a try. And yes, I have faith in Square. But that doesn't mean I, or anyone else, need to be blindly loyal to every single decision that is made.
And when a thread is created asking for people's opinions, don't let it upset you so much.
Ummm.... not really. I think most people were able to tell that I was speaking of a new feel for the FF universe in an MMO given the context (you know, as opposed to something that already feels so similar for a FF MMO). But if you want to play semantics, feel free. It just makes it look like you don't have a valid argument.
However, having said that, I can totally understand why some people would disagree with me and prefer the same races. And I totally respect that. What I don't respect is blind loyalty and the fact that some people feel if you say anything negative about whatever they are blindly loyal about, they are going to become upset with you.
In other words, if Square decided to make male mithra and female galka, and if someone made a post saying they thought it was a bad idea to have both genders, I am sure some of the very people in this thread defending the single gender races would suddenly be defending the idea of having both genders. Why? Because instead of actually thinking about the issue and making a judgement on their own, they choose to be blindly loyal to whatever Square decides.
Hey, I'm certainly looking forward to giving this game a try. And yes, I have faith in Square. But that doesn't mean I, or anyone else, need to be blindly loyal to every single decision that is made.
And when a thread is created asking for people's opinions, don't let it upset you so much.
I completely agree with this. I have a feeling that if SE had announced that FFXIV was going to include both genders for Mi'Qote and Roegadyn, all the naysayers to this thread would have agreed just as easily and supported dual gendering simply because it was SE's decision. whats going to be funny is when SE actually announces that both genders will be included in FFXIV as a surprise, and all the people on this thread arguing to keep single gendered Mi'qote and Roegadyn will realize how much of a joke their arguments were.
Ummm.... not really. I think most people were able to tell that I was speaking of a new feel for the FF universe in an MMO given the context (you know, as opposed to something that already feels so similar for a FF MMO). But if you want to play semantics, feel free. It just makes it look like you don't have a valid argument.
"Playing semantics"?
So, you feel it's more reasonable to assume everyone will intuitively know specifically what you mean, than it is for you to be more specific in your posts...
Smells like a cop-out to me.
Incidentally I wasn't "attacking" you, nor was I even "making an argument"... valid, invalid or otherwise... about that particular paragraph. I merely pointed out an apparent inconsistency I saw. A simple clarification would have sufficed; like "oh, I was referring to MMOs in particular". The way you chose to reply, however, makes you kinda look like a dick.
But your replies, especially your last one, make you seem like such a classy guy...
Don't worry, I won't stoop to your level of name calling. I really don't care if someone like you dislikes me.
Have a nice day
I completely agree with this. I have a feeling that if SE had announced that FFXIV was going to include both genders for Mi'Qote and Roegadyn, all the naysayers to this thread would have agreed just as easily and supported dual gendering simply because it was SE's decision. whats going to be funny is when SE actually announces that both genders will be included in FFXIV as a surprise, and all the people on this thread arguing to keep single gendered Mi'qote and Roegadyn will realize how much of a joke their arguments were.
It's neither about blind loyalty to SE or being a gutless flipflopper. It's more the fact that these races are being reintroduced as-is. It's not a point that XI is a "different world", fact remains that these are essentially the same characters intended to carry over nothing more than a next-gen FFXI feel. Not the entire game, but mainly these races. Should the gender-exclusive races lose that exclusivity I'll be upset with the decision. SE obviously wanted to carry this theme into FFXIV, hence their current display.
But whatever, you can have your male Miqo'te (honestly I hear crickets when it comes to female Roegadyn), but you'll still be playing as a female when their female agility is higher than that of your male's, because it makes for a better NIN, or whatever the case may be.
If they made Miqo'te male from the beginning of FFXIV announcements I would have no complaints. If they made Roegadyn female from the beginning, I would have no compliants there either. Because 1) Miqo'te sounds more masculine than Mitrha and Roegadyn sounds more feminine than Galka, and 2) It would have showed that in what SE intended from the beginning. But I think they would both STILL be gender-exclusive. And being happy with that decision is not being "blindly loyal" but more accepting of the fact that they are going to do what they are going to do in spite of you. Thus if and when they are announced I WILL eat my words with some sugar and vitamin-C, but until then I don't think they will, don't think they should, and don't think it's really worth debating seeing as how nobody knows and what's for display is there.
Just as there ARE those zealous followers of SE, there are ALSO those who rebel just to rebel. And, to quote one of my favorite bands, "You'll rebel to anything as long as it's not challenging." I could easily jump on the gender bandwagon but I'd rather see playable rodent Qiqirn or primate Genome to compensate for the female feline advantages than Manthra, adding an infinitely more dynamic and quality role-playing aspect than a few furry freaks ever could.
Take that however you want. I'm decidedly Elzen so the choice on whether or not to add them really doesn't affect me in any way. I don't play Mithra / Miqo'te, so I'm unbiased, which is more than I can say for all the "naysayers" of leaving things as they are, and instead ruining two adventuring cultures simultatneously.
I wouldn't expect to see male Miqo'te until sometime much later in the game, perhaps as a novelty prestige class, something you'll have to unlock and restart from ground zero, since male adventurers are far more rare than females. For nothing but a few stat bonuses really. Like the Drow Elves of DDO. By the time I'm able to play one I don't really give a shit. To much work going through the same crap just to be the uber-1337 ranger.
Speaking of prestige classes, I'd like to think there were a wide variety of these, but that's not SE's motiff so we probably won't see it. Oh well...
Abraxas [365]
So you would care, but you wouldnt care? lol.
Either way you contradicted yourself. And anyway the creators already told us that the central theme around this game was "Growth". with this in mind, it wouldnt make very much sense to NOT expect an expansion on the already playable races from FFXI.
Thus far there has been no definitive explanation directly from the creators as to what their plans are with the gender exclusive races from FFXI being carried over into FFXIV. all we've SEEN are their pictures in the gender specific models and thus have assumed there won't be more. and as far as i can tell you've just taken that assumption and tried to rationalize from what you think their perspective is. maybe your right. maybe not. I'm still standing by my argument that this game would be made vastly more diverse with the inclusion of both genders for all races, and I'm curious to see how many agree with me on this.
I'm not stating my argument just to "rebel", I'm stating my argument because I really care about this game and think it would benefit greatly from this kind of addition. obviously they are going to do what they are going to do, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't voice our opinions. thats what this forum is here for, i would expect you needn't be reminded of that.
Precisely. Can I not be expectant and indifferent at the same time? Everyone is a hypocrite, so what's the use in pointing out that quaint little slip as if it invalidated their perspective?
As for the concept of "growth" I think you might have taken it out of context, and it wouldn't be the first time someone misinterpreted or mistranslated SE. It could just as easily refer to the size of the new Roegadyn who dwarf the former Galka, or the Lallafel who have evolved from Taru, or the overall maturity this new MMORPG seems to be bringing to the table. But since it was mentioned in the context of character development, not character creation, it could simply imply the armoury system, and nothing more. Instead of crediting the speculation and rumors I'm only going by what's announced via the official website, which hints toward nothing. And as far as growth is concerned, first you need something to grow from. Releasing everything at the start would not be smart on SE's part. As I expect (if you actually read the eintrety of my post) as a 2nd or 3rd expansion the addition of male Miqo'te is feasible, but not so much at launch. Releasing this as a late addition would give some players reason to keep playing and others reason to come back, giving us something to cling to, milking us for all we're worth.
I don't assume to rationalize my own point of view; instead I assume nothing. That is where our arguments differ, which is why I believe my points are (only slightly) more rational. Retiring the gender-exclusives won't make the world "vastly diverse" imo - only slightly. It's still the same song & dance. However adding entirely new races will. I too care about the game as well as the players, but the quality of both at once, and so I hold SE to high standards. Since The Spirits Within they have been doing some unpredictable, crazy, and off the wall things, taking leaps of faith where some pay off and others don't. They aren't afraid to experiment or take chances. Releasing all genders playable is not all that shocking. In fact, it's safe. And given their track record and what we've witness of XIV so far, they don't seem too concerned about safety at this point.
As easy as it is to say they should include males and females, it's harder for people to accept why they won't (or why they haven't). Right now "keep your hopes up" sounds like nothing more than bait. They fail to mention how long we might be hanging by that thread of hope. Honestly if everyone agreed on ridding the gender-exclusives this thread would be rather dull. I've gotten tired of arguing that these changes shouldn't happen, so instead I'm offering my objectional perspective on how it should happen. It makes for more interesting conversation, which is what these forums are for. I would expect you needn't be reminded of that. ;p
Edit: Case in point~
1st post - "Yeah! What's wrong with male kittens?"
2nd post - "Sure, I'd like to play a cat."
3rd post - "Manthra rule, lolz."
4th post - "Hey, it's about time! Rock on!"
5th post - "OMG OMG OMG OMFGYUSSSS!"
Dull. The most prominent disgrace to the lore of the Mithra / Miqo'te race is that more males play them than females, trashing the lore of these character concepts. The scarce feminine feline population will ruin their history, and how does that help a game just to satisfy a few players?
Abraxas [365]
Ummm.... not really. I think most people were able to tell that I was speaking of a new feel for the FF universe in an MMO given the context (you know, as opposed to something that already feels so similar for a FF MMO). But if you want to play semantics, feel free. It just makes it look like you don't have a valid argument.
"Playing semantics"?
So, you feel it's more reasonable to assume everyone will intuitively know specifically what you mean, than it is for you to be more specific in your posts...
Smells like a cop-out to me.
Incidentally I wasn't "attacking" you, nor was I even "making an argument"... valid, invalid or otherwise... about that particular paragraph. I merely pointed out an apparent inconsistency I saw. A simple clarification would have sufficed; like "oh, I was referring to MMOs in particular". The way you chose to reply, however, makes you kinda look like a dick.
But your replies, especially your last one, make you seem like such a classy guy...
Don't worry, I won't stoop to your level of name calling. I really don't care if someone like you dislikes me.
Have a nice day
lol? What are you talking about? Stoop to what level?
No name-calling here. I pointed out that the way you chose to respond - your demeanor - made you *look* like a dick. I didn't say you *were* one. There's a distinct difference between the two. That's not "stooping" to any level.
I guess this time I'm at fault for assuming you'd know the difference. Though I think you do.
But just in case...
Example: If you tell someone they're acting like an idiot... are you calling them an idiot personally? No, you aren't. You're describing their behavior. Obvious difference, yes?
But it's fine. You've demonstrated your attitude quite clearly, twice now, and I'm better off for knowing.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
If Square Enix plans on implementing it then they do. Who gives a crap? Seriously, if you want to play a Male Miqo'te then play one. If you dont you dont. Its as simple as that. There isnt any complication in that thought whatsoever. If you find its not for you then play something else. Its called the freedom of choice. Play what you will and enjoy it. Dont let anyone dictate anything to you and you can have fun without repercussions. Ignore the useless banter about why it would be stupid or why Square should not do this or that. Take it for what it is and move on. No point getting yourself caught up in a useless battle of wits with someone that isnt willing to see your view on things.
This is just something for me to do while I'm at work. ;p
Abraxas [365]
I'm playing this game on principle alone.
Truth be known, I would have preferred an "Ivalice Online" over these races again.
Never liked any of 'em except for Tarus and of course, Humans. (Gotta have humans!).
What I really would have liked would have been an entirely new look, but sticking with FF tradition of re-interpreting classic myths and legends from earthly lore.
I am also sick and tired of Elves vs. Orcs (although FFXI orcs were possibly the most original design I've seen yet in fantasy).
I would have loved to have been a moogle (like the ones from XII.. best design!)
This game better not end up like EQ2.
Personally...
If they add(ed) male Miqo'te and female Roegadyn, it'd be great. If they don't... then that's fine, too. If they created entirely new races from scratch, I'd find something I liked in that setup as well.
As long as the races look good and play well... I will find something I like and can enjoy playing.
What most concerns me is the world I'm playing them in.. *That's* what I'm most, personally, concerned about. Coming from SE, though, and based on how much I enjoyed exploring and adventuring in Vana'diel, I feel fairly confident that I'm going to enjoy my time in Eorzea as well.
But, as for the races... yeah... I think whatever they do, people will settle in and find something they can enjoy playing.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Here you're placing the sake of the "Game" itself and its "Lore" over the experience of the game's community. Which is fine fine for the most part. When someone doesn't like part of a painting he's looking at, he doesn't get to call up the painter and have him come in to re-paint it. The painting is a piece of art, not subject to be changed by someone with a differing opinion. But the essence of what a painting is, and the rules applied to it, isn't the same as an MMORPG.
An MMORPG's job at its core is a community facilitator. A Metaphorical world that provides a place for community to thrive and grow through freedom of choice. Truly, when an MMO is doing its job right, everyone who has a DIFFERENT opinion of what an mmo SHOULD be, is playing it.
Now, I'm not saying that FFXIV shouldn't be respected and valued as a work of art. But when those pieces of it considered "untouchable" and "art" start to interfere with its job as an MMO by limiting expected freedoms and aggravating its community, something is wrong and voices like mine are inevitably emergent.
In the end, I think our viewpoints are more similar than we think they are. Your suggestion of an in game "unlockable" male Mi'Qote race would be a cool solution to this problem. Also adding a new race would be quite appropriate as well. The artistic integrity of the game need not be sacrificed fully for the sake of a few players. but its all about finding a balance.
Ha! More semantics! Hilarious but I actually expected it from you...
Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?
So you are saying it is not name calling if I, theoretically, say you sound like a completely ignorant, immature idiot who clearly thinks he sounds intelligent but actually looks like a buffoon to others?
Really? That's not name calling?
So any time you don't have a good argument and you want to resort to name calling you just put "sound like" or "look like" in front of it and it takes on a totally different meaning, right? I bet you actually think you are quite brilliant for thinking up such an "awesome strategy" to insult people without them knowing it. I'm sure no first grader has ever thought of that one before (please note the sarcasm).
Anyway, I have enough respect for the rest of this community to end this off-topic flame war here. You have started up with me multiple times now but feel free to have the last word and flame me all you want. Every post you make just makes me laugh anyway. But now, you have become a bore and a distraction to this thread (which I am sure you wanted all along) so I am done talking to you.
Good bye.