look, all they have to do is create some sort of dynamic PVE content. Stuff that changes the world and the enemies alike. PVP doesn't always make a game dynamic. Eventually PvP based games tend to favor one or two builds that work and it becomes E-Sport where everyone ends up being the same anyway... Dynamic PvE content is all any PvE game needs. The A.I. needs to be aggressive.. Attack human safe areas and take control of starter towns or certain towns randomly, migrate to different area where they are uncommon etc.. Getting to max level and making alts is not all a PvE game has to be, but developers need to think outside the box for once to achieve this.
The developers already confirmed this will not be the case. I googled last night for interviews with Cryptic. I was searching for keywords 'realtime dodging' and came across an interview where they replied that only through expansions do they plan to change the universe.
So this post does not apply to any current MMO.
What I was asking for is a lot more practical. But it appears we'll get a Siren's Call equivalent in a future expansion when they add Villains. I forgot Siren's Call was added to City of Heroes in CoV
Exactly! The pve'ers ran out of content and blazed. That's what I've been saying. So who was left???
Drum roolllllll.......
PVPers
PVPers have always been a major part of the community hence why they had over 2-3 forums dedicated to us. Trust me, the only reason why the devsw saw so much activity in the pve areas cause PVP granted no XP But now that will be fixed it will be telling for the devs which activity alot of players prefer. Many will choose PVP for XP as long as its decent enough quantity
I Know i play MMO's to get away from the Real World, but there's something very troubling about someone who has made there own make believe world inside a make believe world ..... seek help
Now you are grasping for straws and resulting to personal insults
I'm still laughing how you called me a 'griefer' when such a thing was impossible in City of Villians. CoX series has always been voluntary pvp. The only way one could ever grief anyone in City of Villians was harass someone trying to quest for a badge in Recluse Victory (which was a PVP Zone mind you)?
Good job admitting PVE'ers left City of Heroes after they maxed out a few characters you should work on your forum fu I guess. I would have been willing to agree that of course a few persisted through the years since many had a love for endless repetition for some reason.
Cryptic studios is just not big enough to churn out endless PVE content like Blizzard and such. This is why NCSoft California finally got wise and introduced the Mission Architect which on paper was a good move. I say 'on paper' because I left a bit before Mission Architect. But this allowed the players to introduced dynamic content to the game
And once again lastly I will add once again- You don't know me. So don't pretend you do.
Exactly! The pve'ers ran out of content and blazed. That's what I've been saying. So who was left???
Drum roolllllll.......
PVPers
PVPers have always been a major part of the community hence why they had over 2-3 forums dedicated to us. Trust me, the only reason why the devsw saw so much activity in the pve areas cause PVP granted no XP But now that will be fixed it will be telling for the devs which activity alot of players prefer. Many will choose PVP for XP as long as its decent enough quantity
I Know i play MMO's to get away from the Real World, but there's something very troubling about someone who has made there own make believe world inside a make believe world ..... seek help
Now you are grasping for straws and resulting to personal insults
I'm still laughing how you called me a 'griefer' when such a thing was impossible in City of Villians. CoX series has always been voluntary pvp. The only way one could ever grief anyone in City of Villians was harass someone trying to quest for a badge in Recluse Victory (which was a PVP Zone mind you)?
Good job admitting PVE'ers left City of Heroes after they maxed out a few characters you should work on your forum fu I guess. I would have been willing to agree that of course a few persisted through the years since many had a love for endless repetition for some reason.
Cryptic studios is just not big enough to churn out endless PVE content like Blizzard and such. This is why NCSoft California finally got wise and introduced the Mission Architect which on paper was a good move. I say 'on paper' because I left a bit before Mission Architect. But this allowed the players to introduced dynamic content to the game
And once again lastly I will add once again- You don't know me. So don't pretend you do.
No not grasping at straws, yes resulting to personal insults.
I called you a griefer because you refered to me as a carebear, so actually you were the first to result to personal insults.
The simple fact is everytime i have presented an argument based on some sort of reality, you simply ignore it and make some wild claim to support your opinion. I should have realised you were trolling earlier and just refused to keep biting the bait, that's my fault which i'll rectify now.
Exactly! The pve'ers ran out of content and blazed. That's what I've been saying. So who was left???
Drum roolllllll.......
PVPers
PVPers have always been a major part of the community hence why they had over 2-3 forums dedicated to us. Trust me, the only reason why the devsw saw so much activity in the pve areas cause PVP granted no XP But now that will be fixed it will be telling for the devs which activity alot of players prefer. Many will choose PVP for XP as long as its decent enough quantity
I Know i play MMO's to get away from the Real World, but there's something very troubling about someone who has made there own make believe world inside a make believe world ..... seek help
Now you are grasping for straws and resulting to personal insults
I'm still laughing how you called me a 'griefer' when such a thing was impossible in City of Villians. CoX series has always been voluntary pvp. The only way one could ever grief anyone in City of Villians was harass someone trying to quest for a badge in Recluse Victory (which was a PVP Zone mind you)?
Good job admitting PVE'ers left City of Heroes after they maxed out a few characters you should work on your forum fu I guess. I would have been willing to agree that of course a few persisted through the years since many had a love for endless repetition for some reason.
Cryptic studios is just not big enough to churn out endless PVE content like Blizzard and such. This is why NCSoft California finally got wise and introduced the Mission Architect which on paper was a good move. I say 'on paper' because I left a bit before Mission Architect. But this allowed the players to introduced dynamic content to the game
And once again lastly I will add once again- You don't know me. So don't pretend you do.
No not grasping at straws, yes resulting to personal insults.
I called you a griefer because you refered to me as a carebear, so actually you were the first to result to personal insults.
The simple fact is everytime i have presented an argument based on some sort of reality, you simply ignore it and make some wild claim to support your opinion. I should have realised you were trolling earlier and just refused to keep biting the bait, that's my fault which i'll rectify now.
I never once called you a 'carebear'. Show me the post where I quoted you directly and called you a 'carebear'
If you going to reply to me then read my posts hehe
I'm just laughing that someone would call a pvper a griefer in the CoX universe I can't recall ever seeing that term before even in jest
Show me the quote where they said it was a PVE only game.
Once again we will see them try to add on more pvp features (just like with CoH) once they see the carebears have once again let them flop around 100k. Not sure why Cryptic is always so content to live in EVE Online's shadow
They are attempting to lable the game as both PvP and PvE.
A PvP game with only one faction?
What they have is a PvE game where they have nerfed many of the powers to balance PvP that is only half-way implemented. I get the strong feeling that the end result will be that neither PvP nor PvE will be well done.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
As much as I love PvP. I just couldnt see the game working with a general or ffa pvp system. A city full of heroes fighting each other? Just sounds rather silly. Now if it had Heroes and Villains right off the bat, then that would make sense.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
This is what I heard so far of the PvP. Is this true or not?
There are a couple types.
Dueling-1v1. Can be initiated anywhere
Bash- Free For all "outdoors" PvP zone. It's a localized instance map you queue for that mirrors the "West Side" area of Millennium city... Last I read it supports 20 players.
Tournament of Champions: arena 5v5 "indoors" PvP zone This is a localized instance you have to queue for.
Apocalypse: they are scenarios that pit 2 teams of heroes against each other. They have PvE elements to them as well as PvP. Think of it kinda like the "Danger Room" from X-men. Different Apocalypse maps have different objectives, and different ways to win. They also have various game play mechanics like reinforcements, control points and triggered events.
There is currently one apocalypse scenario planned for release, with more in development. It's called Stronghold, a maximum security villain prison. Two teams take each other on, one team takes the role of the villains trying to escape, the other the role of the heroes trying to prevent that from happening.
I don't believe they have released numbers on the amount of people that are allowed on each team in Apocalypse scenarios. It's possible that it might change from scenario to scenario.
Open world PvP is always a possibility in the future, and they've expressed that they are open to the idea if its what their community supports. It just doesn't make much sense w/out villains in the game at this point.
This (quote) answers the OP question about PvP -> no, its not just arena... its alot more.. and fun.
Now the PvE versus PvP argument is ... shallow... who decides that are the DEVs and it will depend on what people play more... look at CoX... pvp there was soo small they never really paid much attention to it.
There is plenty of PvP in CO, with different settings/scenarios. And there is alot of PvE. You can do both if you want or focus more in one... the choice is yours... now go be a hero and have fun!
As much as I love PvP. I just couldnt see the game working with a general or ffa pvp system. A city full of heroes fighting each other? Just sounds rather silly. Now if it had Heroes and Villains right off the bat, then that would make sense.
This is true. I might end up just waiting for Villains expansion. I'll be trying out the preorder tho since I already put down on it.
This is what I heard so far of the PvP. Is this true or not?
Open world PvP is always a possibility in the future, and they've expressed that they are open to the idea if its what their community supports. It just doesn't make much sense w/out villains in the game at this point.
You would have thought they would have learned with CoH, and the eventual implementation of CoV, that the overall community desires it.
Even Cryptic appears to recognize it already. Of the 17 videos they have on the official Champions site that advertise the game, 6 of them are PvP related. It's as if they are purposefully trying to accentuate the fact that there is PvP in the game, to cover the weak point of no open world PvP.
In my opinion, it was a poor design decision in not having villains or open world PvP, and it's probably one they regret.
This is something I've been wondering about, because they seem to be making all the same mistakes CoH did and they have no reason to this time.
The CoH devs seemed genuinely surprised that people would want to PvP. They appeared completely perplexed as to why someone would want to play a villain. Really? You couldn't see this coming a mile away?
Now a lot of the game's problems stem from trying to cobble that PvP mechanic into a PvE game. Nerf this, buff that. It's still not balanced. The fact that the attack animations root you in place is a sure sign they never considered PvP at the start, and they've never made it work.
CO has no excuse for not learning from that, yet they look to be heading down the same path. Even if Villains aren't playable from the start (Sure save them for the first expansion, people will pay. It's a business thing), issues of balance should have been an early priority for these guys. They should have had everything needed for PvP in place from the start.
As for why heroes would fight heroes, 'misunderstandings' happen all the time in comics. This is like Comic Books 101.
This is what I heard so far of the PvP. Is this true or not?
Open world PvP is always a possibility in the future, and they've expressed that they are open to the idea if its what their community supports. It just doesn't make much sense w/out villains in the game at this point.
You would have thought they would have learned with CoH, and the eventual implementation of CoV, that the overall community desires it.
Even Cryptic appears to recognize it already. Of the 17 videos they have on the official Champions site that advertise the game, 6 of them are PvP related. It's as if they are purposefully trying to accentuate the fact that there is PvP in the game, to cover the weak point of no open world PvP.
In my opinion, it was a poor design decision in not having villains or open world PvP, and it's probably one they regret.
This is something I've been wondering about, because they seem to be making all the same mistakes CoH did and they have no reason to this time.
The CoH devs seemed genuinely surprised that people would want to PvP. They appeared completely perplexed as to why someone would want to play a villain. Really? You couldn't see this coming a mile away?
Now a lot of the game's problems stem from trying to cobble that PvP mechanic into a PvE game. Nerf this, buff that. It's still not balanced. The fact that the attack animations root you in place is a sure sign they never considered PvP at the start, and they've never made it work.
CO has no excuse for not learning from that, yet they look to be heading down the same path. Even if Villains aren't playable from the start (Sure save them for the first expansion, people will pay. It's a business thing), issues of balance should have been an early priority for these guys. They should have had everything needed for PvP in place from the start.
As for why heroes would fight heroes, 'misunderstandings' happen all the time in comics. This is like Comic Books 101.
Right on this is true. Oh GOD please tell me they are going to root us in place while we do attack again!!!! WTF this is not sounding good. Looks like I'll be getting a refund for my preorder here shortly
The argument made about people leaving CoX after they had a lvl 50 because they didn't PvP is ridiculous and without merit. I played CoH on Freedom for 4 years. I hate PvP and would leave any game that forced it on me. I joined an sg that eventually became real life friends. We all enjoyed the game without the PvP. Most of us are moving to Champions. Please don't state your opinions as fact, because in the end, you loose a lot of credibility on these boards.
Right on this is true. Oh GOD please tell me they are going to root us in place while we do attack again!!!! WTF this is not sounding good. Looks like I'll be getting a refund for my preorder here shortly
Patch, from what I've read CO lets you move and fight at the same time. Sorry, I put the rooting comment in there as a sign that CoH wasn't meant for PvP initially. I could have been clearer.
Just to add, my previous post is based on what I've read about the CO beta. The impression I get is that the PvP nerfing/buffing is already underway.
The argument made about people leaving CoX after they had a lvl 50 because they didn't PvP is ridiculous and without merit. I played CoH on Freedom for 4 years. I hate PvP and would leave any game that forced it on me. I joined an sg that eventually became real life friends. We all enjoyed the game without the PvP. Most of us are moving to Champions. Please don't state your opinions as fact, because in the end, you loose a lot of credibility on these boards.
Yeah because people cant look at NCSoft financial reports and observe subs sunk from 200k since launch
And funny of you to post about Freedom. That was the #1 high population server and best server to PVP on. Everyone made toons there after Liberty and many other servers became very tough to find groups on
So ofc you probably didnt know anything else was admist since you belonged to the #1 high pop server lol. Come on didnt I just say earlier (or was it another thread) that everyone relocated to freedom
edit - bah I cant find that post cause that entire thread was deleted cause of the NDA breaker. But anyway yeah a crapload of people got totally bored after hitting 50. There was no PVE content. And yeah the rest that were interested in PVP soon got tired of the devs dropping the ball on that too. So many major pvp guilds left as well.
And like I said before, the remainder was just a bunch of players that loved doing the same shit over and over. Those were the small pop you had left
Ugh, I'm getting lots of bad memories from CoH I really just dont trust these devs. I'm sure once people get to higher l;evels they will notice major repetition again
Right on this is true. Oh GOD please tell me they are going to root us in place while we do attack again!!!! WTF this is not sounding good. Looks like I'll be getting a refund for my preorder here shortly
Patch, from what I've read CO lets you move and fight at the same time. Sorry, I put the rooting comment in there as a sign that CoH wasn't meant for PvP initially. I could have been clearer.
Just to add, my previous post is based on what I've read about the CO beta. The impression I get is that the PvP nerfing/buffing is already underway.
You would have thought they would have learned with CoH, and the eventual implementation of CoV, that the overall community desires it. Even Cryptic appears to recognize it already. Of the 17 videos they have on the official Champions site that advertise the game, 6 of them are PvP related. It's as if they are purposefully trying to accentuate the fact that there is PvP in the game, to cover the weak point of no open world PvP. In my opinion, it was a poor design decision in not having villains or open world PvP, and it's probably one they regret.
There's no evidence that 'the overall community' of CoX desired open PvP, if they wanted that there were plenty of other games around. In fact, from speaking to a lot of people playing the original CoH when it was only a couple of years old, a lot played the game because it didn't have PvP and all the unpleasentness that frequently accompanies it.
The lack of open PvP is one reason I'm interested in this game and I see it as a strong point in the games favour rather than a weak point as you see it. In fact, the open PvP is the main reason I haven't even looked seriously at Aion.
CO has no excuse for not learning from that, yet they look to be heading down the same path. Even if Villains aren't playable from the start (Sure save them for the first expansion, people will pay. It's a business thing), issues of balance should have been an early priority for these guys. They should have had everything needed for PvP in place from the start. As for why heroes would fight heroes, 'misunderstandings' happen all the time in comics. This is like Comic Books 101.
The PvP element has been in COs design concept since inception. The system is run & gun, the only time you'll get rooted to the ground with a power animation is when you choose to charge that power up(to make it hit harder), or you use a power that acts as a maintain (hold the button down for a constant high yield dot type damage). In both of those situations the only requirement to stop the animation is to simply let go of the button. The system is designed for PvP, I'm not really sure where you got the impression it wasn't. They can choose to go whatever direction the like with it in the future (open world, instanced, base raids, etc) and the PvP is designed to support it. You can relax.
You say "balance should have been an early priority for these guys" like its just that simple. You have to actually build the game-world, fill it with content, make sure the game-play is enjoyable, make sure its not brimming with bugs, create a dozen different intricate systems(inventory, loot, crafting, mail, chat, etc), design a stable of powersets and powers to fill them with.... and a half dozen other major issues, and THEN you start thinking about balance. We're talking about a game that allows multiple types of super travel active during combat, complete and utter customization of a character abilities, and 3 axis combat mechanics. Hell Blizzard can't get their game balanced after 5 years, and they work w/ a strict class system that has none of the aforementioned hurdles. You need a little dose of realism in game design.
The game is set up very well for future expansion. The foundation is there. If they want to go into open world PvP between Villains/Heroes, they can easily do that. If they want to use a Superbase/Superlair type of siege system, they can do that. They can do pretty much whatever they want, and it won't be tacked up because the game was designed with PvP in mind.
And that "heroes misunderstanding" thing.... seriously? That's awful, do you realize how much flack they would catch if they actually tried to sell that load of manure? Common dude...
You would have thought they would have learned with CoH, and the eventual implementation of CoV, that the overall community desires it. Even Cryptic appears to recognize it already. Of the 17 videos they have on the official Champions site that advertise the game, 6 of them are PvP related. It's as if they are purposefully trying to accentuate the fact that there is PvP in the game, to cover the weak point of no open world PvP. In my opinion, it was a poor design decision in not having villains or open world PvP, and it's probably one they regret.
There's no evidence that 'the overall community' of CoX desired open PvP, if they wanted that there were plenty of other games around. In fact, from speaking to a lot of people playing the original CoH when it was only a couple of years old, a lot played the game because it didn't have PvP and all the unpleasentness that frequently accompanies it.
The lack of open PvP is one reason I'm interested in this game and I see it as a strong point in the games favour rather than a weak point as you see it. In fact, the open PvP is the main reason I haven't even looked seriously at Aion.
I think there is some confusion here. No one is asking for 'open pvp' really. I think most posters were asking for Siren's Call / Recluse Victory.
Siren's Call / RV - I'm not sure on the maximum numbers, but they allowed a lot of people in the zones. It was voluntary for everyone. You never had any reason to go there unless you wanted the badges it offered
But I forgot since it was so long ago that these pvp zones were not added until Villains expansion. So it appears I must concede it makes no sense to add these zones til they decide to add Villains
CO has no excuse for not learning from that, yet they look to be heading down the same path. Even if Villains aren't playable from the start (Sure save them for the first expansion, people will pay. It's a business thing), issues of balance should have been an early priority for these guys. They should have had everything needed for PvP in place from the start. As for why heroes would fight heroes, 'misunderstandings' happen all the time in comics. This is like Comic Books 101.
The PvP element has been in COs design concept since inception. The system is run & gun, the only time you'll get rooted to the ground with a power animation is when you choose to charge that power up(to make it hit harder), or you use a power that acts as a maintain (hold the button down for a constant high yield dot type damage). In both of those situations the only requirement to stop the animation is to simply let go of the button. The system is designed for PvP, I'm not really sure where you got the impression it wasn't. They can choose to go whatever direction the like with it in the future (open world, instanced, base raids, etc) and the PvP is designed to support it. You can relax.
.....
Yeah that's good news. My memory is starting to wane, but I recall we used to get around the rooting via Acrobatics powers. But anyway if the rooting is gone altogether thats even better
You say "balance should have been an early priority for these guys" like its just that simple. (More stuff) And that "heroes misunderstanding" thing.... seriously? That's awful, do you realize how much flack they would catch if they actually tried to sell that load of manure? Common dude...
Yes, it should be just that simple.
Having only one game in the genre to follow, one that they helped to develop, they have had years to figure out what works and what doesn't.
Years. Think about that for a minute.
They should have had PvP worked out before they typed the first line of code. From what I've read of beta, they're just now doing the nerf/buff dance. There should be little to no reason for this.
And as for selling manure, there's no need to "sell" anything of the sort. "Oh, look! The Hulk is in town! Better get Iron Man to work him over". Seriously, this is common fare. Go read a comic. Go read "Kingdom Come".
You say "balance should have been an early priority for these guys" like its just that simple. (More stuff) And that "heroes misunderstanding" thing.... seriously? That's awful, do you realize how much flack they would catch if they actually tried to sell that load of manure? Common dude...
Yes, it should be just that simple.
Having only one game in the genre to follow, one that they helped to develop, they have had years to figure out what works and what doesn't.
Years. Think about that for a minute.
They should have had PvP worked out before they typed the first line of code. From what I've read of beta, they're just now doing the nerf/buff dance. There should be little to no reason for this.
And as for selling manure, there's no need to "sell" anything of the sort. "Oh, look! The Hulk is in town! Better get Iron Man to work him over". Seriously, this is common fare. Go read a comic. Go read "Kingdom Come".
First off, you are painfully clueless. Painfully.
Second off, the combat system is completely and utterly different. It pulls virtually nothing from CoX...In fact, an active blocking wide open customization system with run/gun mechanics and 3 axis movement hasn't EVER been done in an MMO before. You want innovation... well there it is. Now they get the fun part of trying to balance this NEW innovative wide open combat system that has near limitless skill combination customization options with real people instead of theory-crafting wars and toilet paper scenarios. I'll feel sorry for them, cause thats about damned impossible.
They did have PvP worked out before a line of code was typed. That is where the Apocolypse, Bash, Arena Tournament stuff comes from. It wasn't like that just sat around and where like "oh damn guys, we forgot to add PvP to our game... John, go code something up real quick". No, the design concepts where there long before a coder ever lifted a finger.
But if you honestly think you can "balance" a game before its even been created, you are smoking some of the best stuff on the planet. Please oh please let me live in your world where everything is super perfect and just works out exactly like you plan it.
How the hell do you balance PvP when for "years" you have just been trying to build the damned game in the first place. Your just trying to put together this giant jigsaw puzzle in a way that doesn't frustrate the piss out of everyone that bothers to log in.
No bud, that isn't how its "suppose" to work. But you keep thinking that.
Man just watched an Aion RvR film and it just blew away the CO films I've seen so far
Problem is Cryptic seemed to let a bunch of noobs make their pvp films. So all you see is a bunch of newbs just stand around and get owned. That doesnt look appealing! Reminds me of the old CoH pvp marketing videos which looked pretty awful as well
When in reality when real players got a hold of them system you saw everyone superspeeding + superjumping everywhere and the game just looked totally sweet to play. When i put up films on youtube I probably helped pull in like 10 potentials back in the day.
pvpers don't have to be such a small segment of the population if they put more effort into their marketing they could get more attention. The way things seem like now Aion is gonna bury this game in popularity right out the gates. Guess thats to be expected anyways since Aion already has such a huge following. All my friends are buzzing bout Aion but none of them know about CO at all. They keep confusing it with DCUO. One guy in particular, "oh I played that game at E3 and it played like a turd!!" I ahd to quickly corect him he played DCUO- not CO
Champions was never going to focus on PvP as their main selling point. It's mainly PvE with some arenas thrown in to add flavor. They just so happened to release their PvP videos in the same week or so. It won't have nearly as much depth (as of now) in end-game as Aion will.
Now I'm not saying that they are wasting their time with it though. Maybe it is just arenas, scenarios, and that one Open World zone for PvP. But does it have to be expansive to be fun? Some of the simplest concepts can be the better ones to try. Going head-to-head in all out arenas is very thrilling. What about WoW as well? Personally, I don't like WoW, but with the fanbase it has and the PvP system they use. I beg someone to differ the similarities between them. WoW has been drowned down to BG Grinding and 3v3 Arena. And yet, some still complain about Champions and try to defend WoW. Give it some thought.
Currently playing: Star Wars: The Old Republic, World of Warcraft, Dota 2, League of Legends
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Comments
The developers already confirmed this will not be the case. I googled last night for interviews with Cryptic. I was searching for keywords 'realtime dodging' and came across an interview where they replied that only through expansions do they plan to change the universe.
So this post does not apply to any current MMO.
What I was asking for is a lot more practical. But it appears we'll get a Siren's Call equivalent in a future expansion when they add Villains. I forgot Siren's Call was added to City of Heroes in CoV
I Know i play MMO's to get away from the Real World, but there's something very troubling about someone who has made there own make believe world inside a make believe world ..... seek help
Now you are grasping for straws and resulting to personal insults
I'm still laughing how you called me a 'griefer' when such a thing was impossible in City of Villians. CoX series has always been voluntary pvp. The only way one could ever grief anyone in City of Villians was harass someone trying to quest for a badge in Recluse Victory (which was a PVP Zone mind you)?
Good job admitting PVE'ers left City of Heroes after they maxed out a few characters you should work on your forum fu I guess. I would have been willing to agree that of course a few persisted through the years since many had a love for endless repetition for some reason.
Cryptic studios is just not big enough to churn out endless PVE content like Blizzard and such. This is why NCSoft California finally got wise and introduced the Mission Architect which on paper was a good move. I say 'on paper' because I left a bit before Mission Architect. But this allowed the players to introduced dynamic content to the game
And once again lastly I will add once again- You don't know me. So don't pretend you do.
I Know i play MMO's to get away from the Real World, but there's something very troubling about someone who has made there own make believe world inside a make believe world ..... seek help
Now you are grasping for straws and resulting to personal insults
I'm still laughing how you called me a 'griefer' when such a thing was impossible in City of Villians. CoX series has always been voluntary pvp. The only way one could ever grief anyone in City of Villians was harass someone trying to quest for a badge in Recluse Victory (which was a PVP Zone mind you)?
Good job admitting PVE'ers left City of Heroes after they maxed out a few characters you should work on your forum fu I guess. I would have been willing to agree that of course a few persisted through the years since many had a love for endless repetition for some reason.
Cryptic studios is just not big enough to churn out endless PVE content like Blizzard and such. This is why NCSoft California finally got wise and introduced the Mission Architect which on paper was a good move. I say 'on paper' because I left a bit before Mission Architect. But this allowed the players to introduced dynamic content to the game
And once again lastly I will add once again- You don't know me. So don't pretend you do.
No not grasping at straws, yes resulting to personal insults.
I called you a griefer because you refered to me as a carebear, so actually you were the first to result to personal insults.
The simple fact is everytime i have presented an argument based on some sort of reality, you simply ignore it and make some wild claim to support your opinion. I should have realised you were trolling earlier and just refused to keep biting the bait, that's my fault which i'll rectify now.
I Know i play MMO's to get away from the Real World, but there's something very troubling about someone who has made there own make believe world inside a make believe world ..... seek help
Now you are grasping for straws and resulting to personal insults
I'm still laughing how you called me a 'griefer' when such a thing was impossible in City of Villians. CoX series has always been voluntary pvp. The only way one could ever grief anyone in City of Villians was harass someone trying to quest for a badge in Recluse Victory (which was a PVP Zone mind you)?
Good job admitting PVE'ers left City of Heroes after they maxed out a few characters you should work on your forum fu I guess. I would have been willing to agree that of course a few persisted through the years since many had a love for endless repetition for some reason.
Cryptic studios is just not big enough to churn out endless PVE content like Blizzard and such. This is why NCSoft California finally got wise and introduced the Mission Architect which on paper was a good move. I say 'on paper' because I left a bit before Mission Architect. But this allowed the players to introduced dynamic content to the game
And once again lastly I will add once again- You don't know me. So don't pretend you do.
No not grasping at straws, yes resulting to personal insults.
I called you a griefer because you refered to me as a carebear, so actually you were the first to result to personal insults.
The simple fact is everytime i have presented an argument based on some sort of reality, you simply ignore it and make some wild claim to support your opinion. I should have realised you were trolling earlier and just refused to keep biting the bait, that's my fault which i'll rectify now.
I never once called you a 'carebear'. Show me the post where I quoted you directly and called you a 'carebear'
If you going to reply to me then read my posts hehe
I'm just laughing that someone would call a pvper a griefer in the CoX universe I can't recall ever seeing that term before even in jest
They are attempting to lable the game as both PvP and PvE.
A PvP game with only one faction?
What they have is a PvE game where they have nerfed many of the powers to balance PvP that is only half-way implemented. I get the strong feeling that the end result will be that neither PvP nor PvE will be well done.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
As much as I love PvP. I just couldnt see the game working with a general or ffa pvp system. A city full of heroes fighting each other? Just sounds rather silly. Now if it had Heroes and Villains right off the bat, then that would make sense.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
There are a couple types.
Dueling-1v1. Can be initiated anywhere
Bash- Free For all "outdoors" PvP zone. It's a localized instance map you queue for that mirrors the "West Side" area of Millennium city... Last I read it supports 20 players.
Tournament of Champions: arena 5v5 "indoors" PvP zone This is a localized instance you have to queue for.
Apocalypse: they are scenarios that pit 2 teams of heroes against each other. They have PvE elements to them as well as PvP. Think of it kinda like the "Danger Room" from X-men. Different Apocalypse maps have different objectives, and different ways to win. They also have various game play mechanics like reinforcements, control points and triggered events.
There is currently one apocalypse scenario planned for release, with more in development. It's called Stronghold, a maximum security villain prison. Two teams take each other on, one team takes the role of the villains trying to escape, the other the role of the heroes trying to prevent that from happening.
I don't believe they have released numbers on the amount of people that are allowed on each team in Apocalypse scenarios. It's possible that it might change from scenario to scenario.
Open world PvP is always a possibility in the future, and they've expressed that they are open to the idea if its what their community supports. It just doesn't make much sense w/out villains in the game at this point.
This (quote) answers the OP question about PvP -> no, its not just arena... its alot more.. and fun.
Now the PvE versus PvP argument is ... shallow... who decides that are the DEVs and it will depend on what people play more... look at CoX... pvp there was soo small they never really paid much attention to it.
There is plenty of PvP in CO, with different settings/scenarios. And there is alot of PvE. You can do both if you want or focus more in one... the choice is yours... now go be a hero and have fun!
This is true. I might end up just waiting for Villains expansion. I'll be trying out the preorder tho since I already put down on it.
Open world PvP is always a possibility in the future, and they've expressed that they are open to the idea if its what their community supports. It just doesn't make much sense w/out villains in the game at this point.
You would have thought they would have learned with CoH, and the eventual implementation of CoV, that the overall community desires it.
Even Cryptic appears to recognize it already. Of the 17 videos they have on the official Champions site that advertise the game, 6 of them are PvP related. It's as if they are purposefully trying to accentuate the fact that there is PvP in the game, to cover the weak point of no open world PvP.
In my opinion, it was a poor design decision in not having villains or open world PvP, and it's probably one they regret.
This is something I've been wondering about, because they seem to be making all the same mistakes CoH did and they have no reason to this time.
The CoH devs seemed genuinely surprised that people would want to PvP. They appeared completely perplexed as to why someone would want to play a villain. Really? You couldn't see this coming a mile away?
Now a lot of the game's problems stem from trying to cobble that PvP mechanic into a PvE game. Nerf this, buff that. It's still not balanced. The fact that the attack animations root you in place is a sure sign they never considered PvP at the start, and they've never made it work.
CO has no excuse for not learning from that, yet they look to be heading down the same path. Even if Villains aren't playable from the start (Sure save them for the first expansion, people will pay. It's a business thing), issues of balance should have been an early priority for these guys. They should have had everything needed for PvP in place from the start.
As for why heroes would fight heroes, 'misunderstandings' happen all the time in comics. This is like Comic Books 101.
Open world PvP is always a possibility in the future, and they've expressed that they are open to the idea if its what their community supports. It just doesn't make much sense w/out villains in the game at this point.
You would have thought they would have learned with CoH, and the eventual implementation of CoV, that the overall community desires it.
Even Cryptic appears to recognize it already. Of the 17 videos they have on the official Champions site that advertise the game, 6 of them are PvP related. It's as if they are purposefully trying to accentuate the fact that there is PvP in the game, to cover the weak point of no open world PvP.
In my opinion, it was a poor design decision in not having villains or open world PvP, and it's probably one they regret.
This is something I've been wondering about, because they seem to be making all the same mistakes CoH did and they have no reason to this time.
The CoH devs seemed genuinely surprised that people would want to PvP. They appeared completely perplexed as to why someone would want to play a villain. Really? You couldn't see this coming a mile away?
Now a lot of the game's problems stem from trying to cobble that PvP mechanic into a PvE game. Nerf this, buff that. It's still not balanced. The fact that the attack animations root you in place is a sure sign they never considered PvP at the start, and they've never made it work.
CO has no excuse for not learning from that, yet they look to be heading down the same path. Even if Villains aren't playable from the start (Sure save them for the first expansion, people will pay. It's a business thing), issues of balance should have been an early priority for these guys. They should have had everything needed for PvP in place from the start.
As for why heroes would fight heroes, 'misunderstandings' happen all the time in comics. This is like Comic Books 101.
Right on this is true. Oh GOD please tell me they are going to root us in place while we do attack again!!!! WTF this is not sounding good. Looks like I'll be getting a refund for my preorder here shortly
The argument made about people leaving CoX after they had a lvl 50 because they didn't PvP is ridiculous and without merit. I played CoH on Freedom for 4 years. I hate PvP and would leave any game that forced it on me. I joined an sg that eventually became real life friends. We all enjoyed the game without the PvP. Most of us are moving to Champions. Please don't state your opinions as fact, because in the end, you loose a lot of credibility on these boards.
Patch, from what I've read CO lets you move and fight at the same time. Sorry, I put the rooting comment in there as a sign that CoH wasn't meant for PvP initially. I could have been clearer.
Just to add, my previous post is based on what I've read about the CO beta. The impression I get is that the PvP nerfing/buffing is already underway.
Yeah because people cant look at NCSoft financial reports and observe subs sunk from 200k since launch
And funny of you to post about Freedom. That was the #1 high population server and best server to PVP on. Everyone made toons there after Liberty and many other servers became very tough to find groups on
So ofc you probably didnt know anything else was admist since you belonged to the #1 high pop server lol. Come on didnt I just say earlier (or was it another thread) that everyone relocated to freedom
edit - bah I cant find that post cause that entire thread was deleted cause of the NDA breaker. But anyway yeah a crapload of people got totally bored after hitting 50. There was no PVE content. And yeah the rest that were interested in PVP soon got tired of the devs dropping the ball on that too. So many major pvp guilds left as well.
And like I said before, the remainder was just a bunch of players that loved doing the same shit over and over. Those were the small pop you had left
Ugh, I'm getting lots of bad memories from CoH I really just dont trust these devs. I'm sure once people get to higher l;evels they will notice major repetition again
Patch, from what I've read CO lets you move and fight at the same time. Sorry, I put the rooting comment in there as a sign that CoH wasn't meant for PvP initially. I could have been clearer.
Just to add, my previous post is based on what I've read about the CO beta. The impression I get is that the PvP nerfing/buffing is already underway.
Ah thanks for clarifying.
There's no evidence that 'the overall community' of CoX desired open PvP, if they wanted that there were plenty of other games around. In fact, from speaking to a lot of people playing the original CoH when it was only a couple of years old, a lot played the game because it didn't have PvP and all the unpleasentness that frequently accompanies it.
The lack of open PvP is one reason I'm interested in this game and I see it as a strong point in the games favour rather than a weak point as you see it. In fact, the open PvP is the main reason I haven't even looked seriously at Aion.
The PvP element has been in COs design concept since inception. The system is run & gun, the only time you'll get rooted to the ground with a power animation is when you choose to charge that power up(to make it hit harder), or you use a power that acts as a maintain (hold the button down for a constant high yield dot type damage). In both of those situations the only requirement to stop the animation is to simply let go of the button. The system is designed for PvP, I'm not really sure where you got the impression it wasn't. They can choose to go whatever direction the like with it in the future (open world, instanced, base raids, etc) and the PvP is designed to support it. You can relax.
You say "balance should have been an early priority for these guys" like its just that simple. You have to actually build the game-world, fill it with content, make sure the game-play is enjoyable, make sure its not brimming with bugs, create a dozen different intricate systems(inventory, loot, crafting, mail, chat, etc), design a stable of powersets and powers to fill them with.... and a half dozen other major issues, and THEN you start thinking about balance. We're talking about a game that allows multiple types of super travel active during combat, complete and utter customization of a character abilities, and 3 axis combat mechanics. Hell Blizzard can't get their game balanced after 5 years, and they work w/ a strict class system that has none of the aforementioned hurdles. You need a little dose of realism in game design.
The game is set up very well for future expansion. The foundation is there. If they want to go into open world PvP between Villains/Heroes, they can easily do that. If they want to use a Superbase/Superlair type of siege system, they can do that. They can do pretty much whatever they want, and it won't be tacked up because the game was designed with PvP in mind.
And that "heroes misunderstanding" thing.... seriously? That's awful, do you realize how much flack they would catch if they actually tried to sell that load of manure? Common dude...
There's no evidence that 'the overall community' of CoX desired open PvP, if they wanted that there were plenty of other games around. In fact, from speaking to a lot of people playing the original CoH when it was only a couple of years old, a lot played the game because it didn't have PvP and all the unpleasentness that frequently accompanies it.
The lack of open PvP is one reason I'm interested in this game and I see it as a strong point in the games favour rather than a weak point as you see it. In fact, the open PvP is the main reason I haven't even looked seriously at Aion.
I think there is some confusion here. No one is asking for 'open pvp' really. I think most posters were asking for Siren's Call / Recluse Victory.
Siren's Call / RV - I'm not sure on the maximum numbers, but they allowed a lot of people in the zones. It was voluntary for everyone. You never had any reason to go there unless you wanted the badges it offered
But I forgot since it was so long ago that these pvp zones were not added until Villains expansion. So it appears I must concede it makes no sense to add these zones til they decide to add Villains
The PvP element has been in COs design concept since inception. The system is run & gun, the only time you'll get rooted to the ground with a power animation is when you choose to charge that power up(to make it hit harder), or you use a power that acts as a maintain (hold the button down for a constant high yield dot type damage). In both of those situations the only requirement to stop the animation is to simply let go of the button. The system is designed for PvP, I'm not really sure where you got the impression it wasn't. They can choose to go whatever direction the like with it in the future (open world, instanced, base raids, etc) and the PvP is designed to support it. You can relax.
.....Yeah that's good news. My memory is starting to wane, but I recall we used to get around the rooting via Acrobatics powers. But anyway if the rooting is gone altogether thats even better
Cool, I'll just wait and see.
Yes, it should be just that simple.
Having only one game in the genre to follow, one that they helped to develop, they have had years to figure out what works and what doesn't.
Years. Think about that for a minute.
They should have had PvP worked out before they typed the first line of code. From what I've read of beta, they're just now doing the nerf/buff dance. There should be little to no reason for this.
And as for selling manure, there's no need to "sell" anything of the sort. "Oh, look! The Hulk is in town! Better get Iron Man to work him over". Seriously, this is common fare. Go read a comic. Go read "Kingdom Come".
Yes, it should be just that simple.
Having only one game in the genre to follow, one that they helped to develop, they have had years to figure out what works and what doesn't.
Years. Think about that for a minute.
They should have had PvP worked out before they typed the first line of code. From what I've read of beta, they're just now doing the nerf/buff dance. There should be little to no reason for this.
And as for selling manure, there's no need to "sell" anything of the sort. "Oh, look! The Hulk is in town! Better get Iron Man to work him over". Seriously, this is common fare. Go read a comic. Go read "Kingdom Come".
First off, you are painfully clueless. Painfully.
Second off, the combat system is completely and utterly different. It pulls virtually nothing from CoX...In fact, an active blocking wide open customization system with run/gun mechanics and 3 axis movement hasn't EVER been done in an MMO before. You want innovation... well there it is. Now they get the fun part of trying to balance this NEW innovative wide open combat system that has near limitless skill combination customization options with real people instead of theory-crafting wars and toilet paper scenarios. I'll feel sorry for them, cause thats about damned impossible.
They did have PvP worked out before a line of code was typed. That is where the Apocolypse, Bash, Arena Tournament stuff comes from. It wasn't like that just sat around and where like "oh damn guys, we forgot to add PvP to our game... John, go code something up real quick". No, the design concepts where there long before a coder ever lifted a finger.
But if you honestly think you can "balance" a game before its even been created, you are smoking some of the best stuff on the planet. Please oh please let me live in your world where everything is super perfect and just works out exactly like you plan it.
How the hell do you balance PvP when for "years" you have just been trying to build the damned game in the first place. Your just trying to put together this giant jigsaw puzzle in a way that doesn't frustrate the piss out of everyone that bothers to log in.
No bud, that isn't how its "suppose" to work. But you keep thinking that.
Man just watched an Aion RvR film and it just blew away the CO films I've seen so far
Problem is Cryptic seemed to let a bunch of noobs make their pvp films. So all you see is a bunch of newbs just stand around and get owned. That doesnt look appealing! Reminds me of the old CoH pvp marketing videos which looked pretty awful as well
When in reality when real players got a hold of them system you saw everyone superspeeding + superjumping everywhere and the game just looked totally sweet to play. When i put up films on youtube I probably helped pull in like 10 potentials back in the day.
pvpers don't have to be such a small segment of the population if they put more effort into their marketing they could get more attention. The way things seem like now Aion is gonna bury this game in popularity right out the gates. Guess thats to be expected anyways since Aion already has such a huge following. All my friends are buzzing bout Aion but none of them know about CO at all. They keep confusing it with DCUO. One guy in particular, "oh I played that game at E3 and it played like a turd!!" I ahd to quickly corect him he played DCUO- not CO
pvp is stupid and im glad devs arent catering to those miscreants and future felons
lmao thats kinda funny
Champions was never going to focus on PvP as their main selling point. It's mainly PvE with some arenas thrown in to add flavor. They just so happened to release their PvP videos in the same week or so. It won't have nearly as much depth (as of now) in end-game as Aion will.
Now I'm not saying that they are wasting their time with it though. Maybe it is just arenas, scenarios, and that one Open World zone for PvP. But does it have to be expansive to be fun? Some of the simplest concepts can be the better ones to try. Going head-to-head in all out arenas is very thrilling. What about WoW as well? Personally, I don't like WoW, but with the fanbase it has and the PvP system they use. I beg someone to differ the similarities between them. WoW has been drowned down to BG Grinding and 3v3 Arena. And yet, some still complain about Champions and try to defend WoW. Give it some thought.
Currently playing: Star Wars: The Old Republic, World of Warcraft, Dota 2, League of Legends
Waiting on: Blade & Soul, Guild Wars 2, Tera, Kingdoms of Amular, Firefall
Aion is a better PvP game. That's no secret.