I think a new EQ should keep most of the world from the first 2 games. The system needs to be very different howeverbecause we already played the old system for more than 10 years, it is time for something new. Here is some of the things I would have done if I was the lead designer: Cut out hitpoints. Or basicly put them on armours and or magic spells. To get hit by a weapon is always bad and it should be consequences for that. To be hit on the armour however is cool and it takes a lot of damage to go through a plate armour. Hitpoints is stupid since even naked characters can take a lot of punishment, hp is just an old rest from the D&D game. Less attacks and a more realistic combat system. Funcom nailed half of this thing with the idea that you hit whatever your sword hits. Make it so that depending how strong you are the oponent often stop the swords when you hit them but a strong oponent can hit several people if they are standing right and some better control over the swings and combat would be a lot more fun. We don't need 50 different attacks for combat to be fun. Better crafting. Making an item should be more like creating a character. Depending on your skills and the materials you have you should be able to design the item both with abilities and looks. Less mining. Mining is the dumbest MMO thing ever. Heard of any hero who ever mined the metal for his own sword? Well some dude might have but in most cases the metal comes from a large mine. Have the heroes to do quests like caravan guarding or something instead, it makes a lot more sence. To collect rare herbs is ok but the common herbs make no sense either. Players should only have to collect rare things that are hard to get, if any peasant can grow it they will and will sell it rather cheap. Guildhall+. The guildhalls of EQ2 is a nice idea but a guild should be able to build in from scratch like in Stronghold and dungeon keeper. Non linear quests. All quests have to be completed in the same way but there are more ways than one to do something. You don't have to kill a bad guy to get something he have you could by it, threaten him, steal it or even make a fake copy to give to the questgiver. Biowares old Neverwinter nights showed the way to how you handle this kind of things. No friggin go and kill 20 monster quests. I can grind without quests. Quests should be interesting like the HQ quests in EQ2, long things with good reward. Being a postman or rodent hunter is not anything for heroes, I rather have fewer and better written quests. More character options, less item orientation. Loot is important in MMOs but it is a bit too important in EQ 1 & 2. To spend some more time on character development instead and make the item less powerful is a good idea. In real life items are good but not nearly as good as skills are. Make the character 75% and the items 25% or so. You can even have some character development things that are dropped by bosses, like when you capture skills in Guildwars. Less levels. Really, 20 or 25 levels are enough and stop adding more levels in every expansion. More achivement is fine but the adding of more levels just kills of the older part of the game. 20 or 100 levels is really not any different as long as it takes the same time to reach the top. Too many levels will just hurt the gameplay. Or get rid of them totaly, look on pen and paper games like Runequest. More levels doesn't make the game more fun. A formula for how good items can be. Have one for regular, treasured, legendary, fabled and for each tier of the raid items. And have cost on all the abilities. This will ensure that you don't make the items useless from the old part when you release an expansion and it will make the game live longer without killing of certain areas. It will also ensure that items are on the same power and that some doesn't totaly stink. Smarter monsters. Gray monster shouldn't just ignore the player, they should run away from him and if attacked try to get away. You shouldn't be able to pull one of the gurds without the other one notice that you are killing his buddy within line of sight. Bosses should try to flee unless the are cornered when they have no chanse to win. The mobs have been as stupid in any game since EQ and it is time it should be changed. As for minigames it could be fun to have some like poker at the tavern (or guildhouse), throwing knifes and so on. Thats fun but not for crafting since you will do the same thing a lot and it stops being fun rather soon. I really don't care if I have to play the game on my PS3 even if Pc is my first choice for MMOs. What is important i that the game will have to differ from the first Eq but still be fun. For all I care they could keep Norrath exactly the same as in EQ 1 or 2 but the system needs to change a bit too make it more fun. It is ok to keep the highest places for NPCs but players should be able to affect the world around them also, maybe entering the freeport council. The combat needs to be more fun and interactive this time, less pushing the same buttons in a specific order and more about doing things at the right moment. I actually think EQ3 could be a bigger game then Wow but then SOE will have to think out of the box and do what they did with EQ: Create something new and fun to play. If they on the other hand just make the graphics better with the same old gameplay the game will never be bigger than 200K subs.
All good thoughts. The mini games part caught my eye. Poker like the dice game in The Witcher is what came to mind. I do think that would be a good addition. I would add that a new EQ should not stray to far from the basic lore.
All good thoughts. The mini games part caught my eye. Poker like the dice game in The Witcher is what came to mind. I do think that would be a good addition. I would add that a new EQ should not stray to far from the basic lore.
Of course not, it is the lore that makes the game EQ, not the system. Otherwise would Vanguard be EQ3.
All good thoughts. The mini games part caught my eye. Poker like the dice game in The Witcher is what came to mind. I do think that would be a good addition. I would add that a new EQ should not stray to far from the basic lore.
Of course not, it is the lore that makes the game EQ, not the system. Otherwise would Vanguard be EQ3.
I like a lot of what you post Loke, but I'm thinkin your wrong here.
The lore in EQ is, imo, pretty generic cod fantasy and tertiary to what defined classic EQ. It wasnt a play retainer at all as far as I could see. It was always the play systems to me that made it a special experiance. The not-so-secret sauce of EQ to me was aways defined by it's design, not it's lore. And I say that as a loyal fan to the classic game.
I get what you are chasing for in your list of ideas, but I think that you should be wary of straying too far from it's core system build rather then worrying about the lore. For instance, if LotR had EQs social drivers designed into it's play, rather then being a solo centric ez mode quest grinder, then I would be playing that right now. The lore is almost irrelevant to the play experience, past art direction, to most people.
Again and again people say it was the challenging co-op community based play that made EQ the better game for them, and you only get that by core play system design in a MMORPG.
Personally, I think the title 'EverQuest' meaning should strictly be game style, absent or unbound to a single world, as the dungeons and dragons rules and manuals are apart from the dozens created worlds and campaigns for these guidelines to exist in.
This doesn't mean the same exact same game in a complete new world, but a game with the same existing elements in a new world. ( I'm sure we all can agree that EverQuest 1 has room for improvements. ) I know what to expect when I throw Final Fantasy in the xbox, and I would like to have the same expectations to know what to expect when I log into a EverQuest game.
Things to keep
I would really like it to keep the required level of cooperation that existed between players in eq 1, that in it self makes the game truly unique.
The mundane style of adventuring, everyone pulling together to complete a single task.
Norrath no more!
I say trash the Idea of Norrath and doing somthing else because trying to build a new game thats different, yet still the existing old world is stupid because the world in the new game is going to be nothing like the world in the old game, so just give it a different name. Like the Norrath in eq1 compared Norrath to eq2, It blew up, it was the same, but at the same time it wasn't...
Players Hero's
One thing I really would like to see are classes have a chance to "branch" off in to seperate play styles, not neccessarly to make the class different from it self, but to make the classes and player characters feel more unique when joining a group or grouping with. Getting a group with 2 rogue's in it, is just getting a group with 2 of the same exact thing...its kinda lame. Much cooler to see 2 rogue's perform the same function in far different ways. Kind of like the wizard starting a fight off with a few light nukes vs the wizard that calmly waits for the right moment to let loose the mondo ice comet.
I would like a housing system like SWG. This would give a since of ownership to the land we explore. Plus Neat rewards to put in our house.
Fun Clikies as Quest rewards here and there. LIke the EQ halloween event where you got the mask that turned you skellie. Good Times.
Make sure that Quests are an Optional thing. I hate how I have to do quests to get other things done. Balance the Amount of xp you get from the time it takes doing Quest A as it would take the time to kill a certain number of mobs. Like, Make quests at a not so slow pace and give a bit of xp. amounts of Xp, and make grinding mobs harder but worth a decent bit of xp.
and when the time comes to do an Elite, Heroic, Heritage or w/e you want to call it. you jump on the band wagon and do those cause they give neat stuff.
I wouldn't mind bring back the Camp style Grind. However with a Camp style grind you could do a neat feature for camps as you could do something like group controls area "Group 1 is Faction A" Group two would like that camp for the Named "Group 2 which is faction B" Can then challenge for that camp site. And of course winning challenges for camp sites could give a neat reward in its own. This would make Camp challenge more fun than your random pk attack.
Not sure what could be done about combat or ui.
I mean for Combat, i enjoyed EQ's camp styled combat. It was laid back. Though I enjoy face pace combat like swg and wow. AoC combat was eh. i wouldnt recommend that.
Keep the EQ music going the way it has always been. Its classic and its awsome.
I don't mind the zones myself. So keep that if you want.
Now that I think about it, the coop community that existed in eq1 was only achieved because of how the game was designed. I think it was coincidents, rather then planned. adding anything to severely change the game would probably change the co-op community as well.
The game literally left players with fingers crossed to win solo fights, meaning a player is forced to rely on luck that never existed in the first place. This would make anyone insecure because no power exist to abolish it. Since security could not be found in ones self, it had to be found in others. Layman terms, incompetent player characters contributes to a co-op community.
This reflects all character progression, allowing for any easy solo content would probably make a huge impact on the co-op community. This includes fast and easy quest system.
I believe this is the main contributing factor to a powerful co-op environment. The other perks, such as corpse retrieval, unpredictable trade skills(lose your mats), being broke, all build and add character to the game and players.
I've a hard time believing they're already at it. I was under the impression that Everquest 2 had aged very well and that it still had probably until the end of the decade. It's one of the MMOGs I play casually that inspire the least ennui, and it's pretty grinding-pressure free thanks to its mentoring system - and I've always found that really convenient - it allowed me to keep playing with friends even if they became more advanced in the game than I.
I'm hoping for 2 things from any future Everquest games.
1. Much better variety of armor - for example, robes. They all look the same in EQII -- just different colors or patterns on the same robe. I want real variety and customization.
2. Please don't cut the world up into such small zones. I could never really get far into EQII because of the small feeling I had from the zones. Just too many that were too small for my tastes.
I'm sorry, anything Smedley touches will be money centred and ultimately crap. Unfortunately. If they simply reproduced classed EQ with modern tech, it would be win.
Comments
All good thoughts. The mini games part caught my eye. Poker like the dice game in The Witcher is what came to mind. I do think that would be a good addition. I would add that a new EQ should not stray to far from the basic lore.
Of course not, it is the lore that makes the game EQ, not the system. Otherwise would Vanguard be EQ3.
Of course not, it is the lore that makes the game EQ, not the system. Otherwise would Vanguard be EQ3.
I like a lot of what you post Loke, but I'm thinkin your wrong here.
The lore in EQ is, imo, pretty generic cod fantasy and tertiary to what defined classic EQ. It wasnt a play retainer at all as far as I could see. It was always the play systems to me that made it a special experiance. The not-so-secret sauce of EQ to me was aways defined by it's design, not it's lore. And I say that as a loyal fan to the classic game.
I get what you are chasing for in your list of ideas, but I think that you should be wary of straying too far from it's core system build rather then worrying about the lore. For instance, if LotR had EQs social drivers designed into it's play, rather then being a solo centric ez mode quest grinder, then I would be playing that right now. The lore is almost irrelevant to the play experience, past art direction, to most people.
Again and again people say it was the challenging co-op community based play that made EQ the better game for them, and you only get that by core play system design in a MMORPG.
Also, Vanguard IS EQ3
Perhaps we'll learn a little more at PAX.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
Only wish I was going
Personally, I think the title 'EverQuest' meaning should strictly be game style, absent or unbound to a single world, as the dungeons and dragons rules and manuals are apart from the dozens created worlds and campaigns for these guidelines to exist in.
This doesn't mean the same exact same game in a complete new world, but a game with the same existing elements in a new world. ( I'm sure we all can agree that EverQuest 1 has room for improvements. ) I know what to expect when I throw Final Fantasy in the xbox, and I would like to have the same expectations to know what to expect when I log into a EverQuest game.
Things to keep
I would really like it to keep the required level of cooperation that existed between players in eq 1, that in it self makes the game truly unique.
The mundane style of adventuring, everyone pulling together to complete a single task.
Norrath no more!
I say trash the Idea of Norrath and doing somthing else because trying to build a new game thats different, yet still the existing old world is stupid because the world in the new game is going to be nothing like the world in the old game, so just give it a different name. Like the Norrath in eq1 compared Norrath to eq2, It blew up, it was the same, but at the same time it wasn't...
Players Hero's
One thing I really would like to see are classes have a chance to "branch" off in to seperate play styles, not neccessarly to make the class different from it self, but to make the classes and player characters feel more unique when joining a group or grouping with. Getting a group with 2 rogue's in it, is just getting a group with 2 of the same exact thing...its kinda lame. Much cooler to see 2 rogue's perform the same function in far different ways. Kind of like the wizard starting a fight off with a few light nukes vs the wizard that calmly waits for the right moment to let loose the mondo ice comet.
Add signature here.
What I would like to see the Next EQ to be like.
I would like a housing system like SWG. This would give a since of ownership to the land we explore. Plus Neat rewards to put in our house.
Fun Clikies as Quest rewards here and there. LIke the EQ halloween event where you got the mask that turned you skellie. Good Times.
Make sure that Quests are an Optional thing. I hate how I have to do quests to get other things done. Balance the Amount of xp you get from the time it takes doing Quest A as it would take the time to kill a certain number of mobs. Like, Make quests at a not so slow pace and give a bit of xp. amounts of Xp, and make grinding mobs harder but worth a decent bit of xp.
and when the time comes to do an Elite, Heroic, Heritage or w/e you want to call it. you jump on the band wagon and do those cause they give neat stuff.
I wouldn't mind bring back the Camp style Grind. However with a Camp style grind you could do a neat feature for camps as you could do something like group controls area "Group 1 is Faction A" Group two would like that camp for the Named "Group 2 which is faction B" Can then challenge for that camp site. And of course winning challenges for camp sites could give a neat reward in its own. This would make Camp challenge more fun than your random pk attack.
Not sure what could be done about combat or ui.
I mean for Combat, i enjoyed EQ's camp styled combat. It was laid back. Though I enjoy face pace combat like swg and wow. AoC combat was eh. i wouldnt recommend that.
Keep the EQ music going the way it has always been. Its classic and its awsome.
I don't mind the zones myself. So keep that if you want.
thats about all i can think of atm
Kick to the Face.
Now that I think about it, the coop community that existed in eq1 was only achieved because of how the game was designed. I think it was coincidents, rather then planned. adding anything to severely change the game would probably change the co-op community as well.
The game literally left players with fingers crossed to win solo fights, meaning a player is forced to rely on luck that never existed in the first place. This would make anyone insecure because no power exist to abolish it. Since security could not be found in ones self, it had to be found in others. Layman terms, incompetent player characters contributes to a co-op community.
This reflects all character progression, allowing for any easy solo content would probably make a huge impact on the co-op community. This includes fast and easy quest system.
I believe this is the main contributing factor to a powerful co-op environment. The other perks, such as corpse retrieval, unpredictable trade skills(lose your mats), being broke, all build and add character to the game and players.
Add signature here.
No autoattacks. All attacks should require a keypress.
I've a hard time believing they're already at it. I was under the impression that Everquest 2 had aged very well and that it still had probably until the end of the decade. It's one of the MMOGs I play casually that inspire the least ennui, and it's pretty grinding-pressure free thanks to its mentoring system - and I've always found that really convenient - it allowed me to keep playing with friends even if they became more advanced in the game than I.
I was hoping there would be a little more information by now.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
I'm hoping for 2 things from any future Everquest games.
1. Much better variety of armor - for example, robes. They all look the same in EQII -- just different colors or patterns on the same robe. I want real variety and customization.
2. Please don't cut the world up into such small zones. I could never really get far into EQII because of the small feeling I had from the zones. Just too many that were too small for my tastes.
I'm sorry, anything Smedley touches will be money centred and ultimately crap. Unfortunately. If they simply reproduced classed EQ with modern tech, it would be win.