Yes but (hey somone is going to say it eventually i might as well take the heat) can we see yours?
jokes aside: it really is simple Sex Sell and no industry is safe.
Mirror universe ST, To'pol's Pon Far (how many horney men downloaded thost episode from youtube?) Slave Leia, Slave Leia, did i mention Slave Leia? Super girl, hell almost any super-chick (though to be fair i think the short pleated skirt she wear works well for a super hero, better then spandex, try doing a high kick in tight pants you going to rip the crotch seam more often then not) Name one industry without TNA, i can't
Superheroes balance it out with plenty of beefcake. Not that I look..or anything. *eyeshift*
An industry without T&A? Cold medicine. There's just no way to make runny noses and puffy eyes hot. :P
I think there is a misperception here of the article on many of the responses regarding "I don't buy this because of boobs" or "I don't base my decision of whether or not I buy a product based on boobs". The point was that it was never meant to make you want to buy, but to catch your attention. Personally, whether or not I was male or female, I would look twice if I saw an attractive female with a nice rack on a box and maybe will pick up the box and read what its about. That's all it was meant to do, catch the attention of those casual gamers that might have NEVER heard of the game.
I think attractive women with boobies will attract more attention then say the guy with the bloody axe posted a couple pages back in this thread (sorry popinjay women > men even if you are more naked). If you don't believe this, look at how many more friends female gamers attract than male gamers (both male and female friends). I feel fairly lonely compared to my girlfriend, no one new ever bothers to talk to me, they are more interested in her /cry.
And another example in regards to boobs specifically, how many times do you accidentally glance at your big-breasted female friend when talking to her face to face. I can't say that I'm not guilty of it as hard as I try I couldn't seem to help it and I think its just human nature, as Sanya also posted earlier in this thread. You can't resist it (I say this safely as a male, I wonder if females accidentally do this too, and I really do mean accidentally hence no quotations around it).
Boobs and attractive females are used to market products to women too. Last time I checked most men didn't buy makeup or female clothing etc. Why have super hot models for makeup products? I'm not going to tell my wife "ohh look! she's hot with that makeup! Buy some of that!"
This one actually made me laugh! I don't dare imagine how most wives would react to such a suggestion :-D
18 - 34? How ageist, I'm 37 and although it woudn't be the defining reason for me playing an MMO, I love a firm pair of boobs and a cute ass much as the next guy!
I never understood why people made such a big deal about game artwork with big breasts. It's really not a big deal, and it's been used in many different types of media. It's not like there aren't dudes with huge muscles, either.
Bit of a pointless article, really, although quite amusing. Why pick on MMOs, or even computer games for this kind of analysis, when virtually everything is advertised with sexualised imagery?
The kind of heavy-metal album cover fantasy cliche art beloved of marketing directors doesn;t workfor me, because although I like to think of myself as a heterosexual adult male, my aesthetics of beauty tend more to the Jean Seberg/Audrey Hepburn end of the spectrum.
I certainly don't dispute that advertisers and marketeers place huge belief in sexualised advertising, but I think it's a bit naive to conclude that they actually have any idea whether or not it works. I was a marketing co-ordinator for a large insurance company once and I commissioned, placed and on occasion designed and wrote copy for advertising campaigns. We had no metrics to measure the effectiveness and in the couple of years I worked there no-one ever expresed any serious interest in why a campaign "worked" or "failed". Everyone was always far more interested in the next clever idea than looking at the detail of the previous one.
I'd be far more inclined to believe the box art looks like that because that's what the guys working on the game (or on selling it) find personally exciting, rather than that anyone has any actual audited comparative data proving it increases sales.
Yes but (hey somone is going to say it eventually i might as well take the heat) can we see yours?
jokes aside: it really is simple Sex Sell and no industry is safe.
Mirror universe ST, To'pol's Pon Far (how many horney men downloaded thost episode from youtube?) Slave Leia, Slave Leia, did i mention Slave Leia? Super girl, hell almost any super-chick (though to be fair i think the short pleated skirt she wear works well for a super hero, better then spandex, try doing a high kick in tight pants you going to rip the crotch seam more often then not) Name one industry without TNA, i can't
Superheroes balance it out with plenty of beefcake. Not that I look..or anything. *eyeshift*
An industry without T&A? Cold medicine. There's just no way to make runny noses and puffy eyes hot. :P
well except most cold medicien comercials are full of hot blond chicks almost as if they were saying "she would be so much sexier without this cold...why dont you get our product and be her hero?"
Ok, an article about "big boobs for commercial purpose" and men-related cliches.
What about the cliche that women who start discussions on men-related cliches such as "men are being attracted by big boobs" most likely have an inferiority complex (in this matter:do feel "undersized") themselves?
I like this article, was a funny read. And very true, most gamers won't buy anything because it has tits on the package, but it will make them look twice, and while looking the second time the game might seem interresting enough to be worth the money.
Yes but (hey somone is going to say it eventually i might as well take the heat) can we see yours?
jokes aside: it really is simple Sex Sell and no industry is safe.
Mirror universe ST, To'pol's Pon Far (how many horney men downloaded thost episode from youtube?) Slave Leia, Slave Leia, did i mention Slave Leia? Super girl, hell almost any super-chick (though to be fair i think the short pleated skirt she wear works well for a super hero, better then spandex, try doing a high kick in tight pants you going to rip the crotch seam more often then not) Name one industry without TNA, i can't
...so the question is hanging there. What can be put on a box to capture the female attention? Is it spacific words in glowing red just put to the side of the Boobie art? Something that catches both the eye of the guy and the interest of the gal for the the same level of "Whats that about?"
Personally I don't think it has to be especially different - plenty of women like that fantasy art style, especially those interested in fantasy mmorpgs, and can like the box art for similar or different reasons. I think it's mostly just a question of being more subtle. If it's too "in your face" (no pun intended ) then i'd imagine it could be embarassing for a woman (and some men) to carry over to the checkout, whereas if it's sexy but subtle then it'd be easier.
Also, i think it has to actually be sexy fantasy art and not just flesh on its own without any context - the evony ones in particular aren't really fantasy art at all.
Personally I don't think it has to be especially different - plenty of women like that fantasy art style, especially those interested in fantasy mmorpgs, and can like the box art for similar or different reasons. I think it's mostly just a question of being more subtle. If it's too "in your face" (no pun intended ) then i'd imagine it could be embarassing for a woman (and some men) to carry over to the checkout, whereas if it's sexy but subtle then it'd be easier. Also, i think it has to actually be sexy fantasy art and not just flesh on its own without any context - the evony ones in particular aren't really fantasy art at all.
I agree and personally, I don't care how in your face it is; but I'm shameless too.
Personally I don't think it has to be especially different - plenty of women like that fantasy art style, especially those interested in fantasy mmorpgs, and can like the box art for similar or different reasons. I think it's mostly just a question of being more subtle. If it's too "in your face" (no pun intended ) then i'd imagine it could be embarassing for a woman (and some men) to carry over to the checkout, whereas if it's sexy but subtle then it'd be easier. Also, i think it has to actually be sexy fantasy art and not just flesh on its own without any context - the evony ones in particular aren't really fantasy art at all.
I agree and personally, I don't care how in your face it is; but I'm shameless too.
Hrrrm, seems one sided, I know plenty of girls who enjoy chest bubbles as much as I do.
Also, it's funny she uses Tabula Rasa as a "If they had shown more" example....I have an issue of Playboy where her, the AoC assassin chick and a Cabalist from Hellgate: London posed.
If anything, going all the way topless destines your game to flop.
Heck yes, I love well-endowed women in my video games! No, it's not going to be the sole reason I keep playing a poorly made game, but when you put two games side by side that are technically similar in design, yes, I'm going to enjoy the one with lots of cleavage just a little bit more. Okay, a lot more...
I'm one of the people she referenced when she said that some people took offense. I posted on her original column.
I'm not arguing that game companies obviously use attractive, buxom women in artwork to sell their games. It's Sanya's simplistic generalization that there are hordes of 18-34 year old who buy the game BECAUSE it has tits and guns. If I walk down an aisle, I'm going to stop and look at the game with the huge tits. Of course I am.
But I'm not going to buy the game because of it. And none of my gamer friends do either, and they all fit into that 18-34 year old demographic. We buy the game if it looks like it will be fun to play, not because the woman on the cover has huge tits. And although we notice the games with the biggest tits first, we will dig through the racks of games to find the one with the most interesting gameplay to our styles.
Marketers, commentators, and developers greatly exaggerate the affect on profit from having huge-titted women on the cover. Sanya is just echoing a common resentment women have about pixelated game women (or any women in media in general), and the accompanying, although false, conclusion that young men think with their dicks and not with their heads.
We like our dicks. We give our dicks visual treats whenever we can. But ultimately, we buy games with our heads.
It's good to see this subject brought up. I was thinking about this the other day. Now, full disclosure here, breasts are nice but I like butt. And hips. And butt. They make me a very happy fella.
So how to start into a thoughtful post after that? That's a good question, so I'll just get to the point and say that I was looking at some MMOs and was actually annoyed at all of the T&A. No, I'm not claiming to be an activist or a whateverist. Maybe it's because I'm a 30 year old guy who's been gaming my whole life, but I can't be the only one who's getting tired of it. There comes a time when it's simply too much.
I actually wondered about the thoughts that go through the artists' heads.
The women hardly ever wear more than lingerie, or when they do then it's some tiny skirt that shows off her panties at every possible opportunity. Heck, sometimes it's so short that it creates its own opportunities. Then there are the nipple straps that skirt (and probably trip a little over) the line of being legal for anyone under the age of 18.
Blade & Soul and Tera come to mind. Their artwork made it impossible for me to take those games seriously.
Hah! I sound like such a prude when I'm not even close..
Anyway, a classy looking woman is going to grab my attention and money faster than all of that T&A.
As far as the advertisements here on mmorpg.com are concerned, what you see as of the date of this post is nothing compared to what's been up before. There was an ad up with such blatant loli that I found an image that showed a male's hand giving candy to a group of little girls. It had the caption, "I like where this thread is going". I used MS Paint to cross out the word "thread" and replace it with "site", then posted it.
That attractive people/boobs on covers of magazines, products or commercials make people notice?
Wow, I had no idea in every industry since the beginning of time when Ug first marketed the 'wheel' as a sleek and sexy way to move your Grok from the field back to the hut, has sex been used to move products.
Thanks for an article about the blatantly obvious?
Future Sanya articles include;
1. This just in, turns out Combat plays a big role in most MMOs!
2. Apparently, most MMO's are played over the "Internet" whatever that is.
3. It seems a lot of men like looking at pretty women
4. I've noticed that when breathing in, you must also exhale afterwards.
5. I think MMO's are businesses designed to generate profit. If this is true, it could mean that they are wanting you to spend some of your money.
Here is hoping she chooses to bring us stuff we didn't already know in the future. Her talent as a writer is wasted on this one.
Khal - I used to work Star Trek conventions as a volunteer just so I could get in for free. Setting up hundreds of folding chairs so we could all enjoy the anecdotes of Red Shirt #47 is my specialty With that said, my first reaction to being told the Vulcan image was too extreme to be in the game was "DEANNA TROI, DUDE." Followed by "T'POL WEARING BLUE GEL." Also, I used to play a drinking game where you had to do a shot every time you thought you saw Uhura's hoo-ha. I mean, for real, those skirts and the Uhura perch were just a disaster waiting to happen. Um, so, my point is, I am aware of the naked lady stuff in Trek Lore. Probably to an unhealthy degree. But I haven't seen any of that in the game, and I'm reliably informed that Stripper Vulcan there was an image that was created strictly for the magazine, and does not appear in game, and the rumor is because it wouldn't have been approved. Hope that clarifies!
Ahh, ok, I'm with ya know. I don't think their (Cryptic) art direction for the game would be flattering for such images anyway, lol.
That drinking game must have made for some interesting evenings as I'm sure everyone was piss drunk 20 minutes into a given episode!
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Humans are hard-wired to be more interested in faces than any other imagery. That is the primary reason why commercials like to place a face (or human) somewhere on their ads.
On the other hand, I don't think that boobs make a difference. The idea to combine boobs with fantasy images seems to stem from the sword and sorcery pulp comic predecessors. As wikipedia claims Pulp magazines «were famous for their half-dressed damsels in distress».
I don't think that Nielsen (or some other marketing agency) can get proof for the boob theory. If you give men, out of context, images of women showing more or less and ask them what they prefer, well… doesn't proof that they like to see it on the box of a war-sim. So it looks like that marketing folks think: «we should put a face on the ad, and since boobs are possible in this genre, we play it safe and include them».
It is interesting that the influence of modern times did not remove the boobs, but rather turned the damsel in distress into women warriors.
Comments
Superheroes balance it out with plenty of beefcake. Not that I look..or anything. *eyeshift*
An industry without T&A? Cold medicine. There's just no way to make runny noses and puffy eyes hot. :P
I think there is a misperception here of the article on many of the responses regarding "I don't buy this because of boobs" or "I don't base my decision of whether or not I buy a product based on boobs". The point was that it was never meant to make you want to buy, but to catch your attention. Personally, whether or not I was male or female, I would look twice if I saw an attractive female with a nice rack on a box and maybe will pick up the box and read what its about. That's all it was meant to do, catch the attention of those casual gamers that might have NEVER heard of the game.
I think attractive women with boobies will attract more attention then say the guy with the bloody axe posted a couple pages back in this thread (sorry popinjay
women > men even if you are more naked). If you don't believe this, look at how many more friends female gamers attract than male gamers (both male and female friends). I feel fairly lonely compared to my girlfriend, no one new ever bothers to talk to me, they are more interested in her /cry.
And another example in regards to boobs specifically, how many times do you accidentally glance at your big-breasted female friend when talking to her face to face. I can't say that I'm not guilty of it as hard as I try I couldn't seem to help it and I think its just human nature, as Sanya also posted earlier in this thread. You can't resist it
(I say this safely as a male, I wonder if females accidentally do this too, and I really do mean accidentally hence no quotations around it).
---You dare to challenge me? Click this!---
18 - 34? How ageist, I'm 37 and although it woudn't be the defining reason for me playing an MMO, I love a firm pair of boobs and a cute ass much as the next guy!
I never understood why people made such a big deal about game artwork with big breasts. It's really not a big deal, and it's been used in many different types of media. It's not like there aren't dudes with huge muscles, either.
Bit of a pointless article, really, although quite amusing. Why pick on MMOs, or even computer games for this kind of analysis, when virtually everything is advertised with sexualised imagery?
The kind of heavy-metal album cover fantasy cliche art beloved of marketing directors doesn;t workfor me, because although I like to think of myself as a heterosexual adult male, my aesthetics of beauty tend more to the Jean Seberg/Audrey Hepburn end of the spectrum.
I certainly don't dispute that advertisers and marketeers place huge belief in sexualised advertising, but I think it's a bit naive to conclude that they actually have any idea whether or not it works. I was a marketing co-ordinator for a large insurance company once and I commissioned, placed and on occasion designed and wrote copy for advertising campaigns. We had no metrics to measure the effectiveness and in the couple of years I worked there no-one ever expresed any serious interest in why a campaign "worked" or "failed". Everyone was always far more interested in the next clever idea than looking at the detail of the previous one.
I'd be far more inclined to believe the box art looks like that because that's what the guys working on the game (or on selling it) find personally exciting, rather than that anyone has any actual audited comparative data proving it increases sales.
Superheroes balance it out with plenty of beefcake. Not that I look..or anything. *eyeshift*
An industry without T&A? Cold medicine. There's just no way to make runny noses and puffy eyes hot. :P
well except most cold medicien comercials are full of hot blond chicks almost as if they were saying "she would be so much sexier without this cold...why dont you get our product and be her hero?"
Ok, an article about "big boobs for commercial purpose" and men-related cliches.
What about the cliche that women who start discussions on men-related cliches such as "men are being attracted by big boobs" most likely have an inferiority complex (in this matter:do feel "undersized") themselves?
I like this article, was a funny read. And very true, most gamers won't buy anything because it has tits on the package, but it will make them look twice, and while looking the second time the game might seem interresting enough to be worth the money.
I also want to thank you for the nice pictures
Playmates toy company?
Personally I don't think it has to be especially different - plenty of women like that fantasy art style, especially those interested in fantasy mmorpgs, and can like the box art for similar or different reasons. I think it's mostly just a question of being more subtle. If it's too "in your face" (no pun intended
) then i'd imagine it could be embarassing for a woman (and some men) to carry over to the checkout, whereas if it's sexy but subtle then it'd be easier.
Also, i think it has to actually be sexy fantasy art and not just flesh on its own without any context - the evony ones in particular aren't really fantasy art at all.
I agree and personally, I don't care how in your face it is; but I'm shameless too.
I agree and personally, I don't care how in your face it is; but I'm shameless too.
Lol. Yeah. I'm just thinking on average
Its human nature, guys just happen to be more willing to go with their nature
Mess with the best, Die like the rest
Thanks again Sanya.
PS. Loved the title
..its a guideline, not a rule, as players we must remember: Its a Game.
Hrrrm, seems one sided, I know plenty of girls who enjoy chest bubbles as much as I do.
Also, it's funny she uses Tabula Rasa as a "If they had shown more" example....I have an issue of Playboy where her, the AoC assassin chick and a Cabalist from Hellgate: London posed.
If anything, going all the way topless destines your game to flop.
No pun intended.
Daniel Floyd did a great video with his opinions on the topic that supports some of the positions here...
www.youtube.com/watch
Heck yes, I love well-endowed women in my video games! No, it's not going to be the sole reason I keep playing a poorly made game, but when you put two games side by side that are technically similar in design, yes, I'm going to enjoy the one with lots of cleavage just a little bit more. Okay, a lot more...
Edited out of redundancy.
I'm one of the people she referenced when she said that some people took offense. I posted on her original column.
I'm not arguing that game companies obviously use attractive, buxom women in artwork to sell their games. It's Sanya's simplistic generalization that there are hordes of 18-34 year old who buy the game BECAUSE it has tits and guns. If I walk down an aisle, I'm going to stop and look at the game with the huge tits. Of course I am.
But I'm not going to buy the game because of it. And none of my gamer friends do either, and they all fit into that 18-34 year old demographic. We buy the game if it looks like it will be fun to play, not because the woman on the cover has huge tits. And although we notice the games with the biggest tits first, we will dig through the racks of games to find the one with the most interesting gameplay to our styles.
Marketers, commentators, and developers greatly exaggerate the affect on profit from having huge-titted women on the cover. Sanya is just echoing a common resentment women have about pixelated game women (or any women in media in general), and the accompanying, although false, conclusion that young men think with their dicks and not with their heads.
We like our dicks. We give our dicks visual treats whenever we can. But ultimately, we buy games with our heads.
The real question is if Sanya ever customized her avatar's chest-size to the minimum?
It's good to see this subject brought up. I was thinking about this the other day. Now, full disclosure here, breasts are nice but I like butt. And hips. And butt. They make me a very happy fella.
So how to start into a thoughtful post after that? That's a good question, so I'll just get to the point and say that I was looking at some MMOs and was actually annoyed at all of the T&A. No, I'm not claiming to be an activist or a whateverist. Maybe it's because I'm a 30 year old guy who's been gaming my whole life, but I can't be the only one who's getting tired of it. There comes a time when it's simply too much.
I actually wondered about the thoughts that go through the artists' heads.
The women hardly ever wear more than lingerie, or when they do then it's some tiny skirt that shows off her panties at every possible opportunity. Heck, sometimes it's so short that it creates its own opportunities. Then there are the nipple straps that skirt (and probably trip a little over) the line of being legal for anyone under the age of 18.
Blade & Soul and Tera come to mind. Their artwork made it impossible for me to take those games seriously.
Hah! I sound like such a prude when I'm not even close..
Anyway, a classy looking woman is going to grab my attention and money faster than all of that T&A.
As far as the advertisements here on mmorpg.com are concerned, what you see as of the date of this post is nothing compared to what's been up before. There was an ad up with such blatant loli that I found an image that showed a male's hand giving candy to a group of little girls. It had the caption, "I like where this thread is going". I used MS Paint to cross out the word "thread" and replace it with "site", then posted it.
Yeah, I got a warning for that one.
Wait, OP has determined sex sells?
That attractive people/boobs on covers of magazines, products or commercials make people notice?
Wow, I had no idea in every industry since the beginning of time when Ug first marketed the 'wheel' as a sleek and sexy way to move your Grok from the field back to the hut, has sex been used to move products.
Thanks for an article about the blatantly obvious?
Future Sanya articles include;
1. This just in, turns out Combat plays a big role in most MMOs!
2. Apparently, most MMO's are played over the "Internet" whatever that is.
3. It seems a lot of men like looking at pretty women
4. I've noticed that when breathing in, you must also exhale afterwards.
5. I think MMO's are businesses designed to generate profit. If this is true, it could mean that they are wanting you to spend some of your money.
Here is hoping she chooses to bring us stuff we didn't already know in the future. Her talent as a writer is wasted on this one.
Ahh, ok, I'm with ya know. I don't think their (Cryptic) art direction for the game would be flattering for such images anyway, lol.
That drinking game must have made for some interesting evenings as I'm sure everyone was piss drunk 20 minutes into a given episode!
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Humans are hard-wired to be more interested in faces than any other imagery. That is the primary reason why commercials like to place a face (or human) somewhere on their ads.
On the other hand, I don't think that boobs make a difference. The idea to combine boobs with fantasy images seems to stem from the sword and sorcery pulp comic predecessors. As wikipedia claims Pulp magazines «were famous for their half-dressed damsels in distress».
I don't think that Nielsen (or some other marketing agency) can get proof for the boob theory. If you give men, out of context, images of women showing more or less and ask them what they prefer, well… doesn't proof that they like to see it on the box of a war-sim. So it looks like that marketing folks think: «we should put a face on the ad, and since boobs are possible in this genre, we play it safe and include them».
It is interesting that the influence of modern times did not remove the boobs, but rather turned the damsel in distress into women warriors.