Meh the imagery doesn't really buy me over, it might of when I was 9-12 years old or something but other than that I could care less what is on the advertisement...
I do my research on a game before I purchase it so this may not apply to me since the box has nothing to do with my purchase. I won't stand in a store and go "oh hawt rack! i'm gonna buy this!"
I don't buy everything that has titties on it. Although, like probably 99% of all heterosexual men I at least pick up the product and check it out. So the advertisers mission is almost always at least half accomplished.
DON'T JUDGE ME!!!!!!!!!! :P
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
Funny column, you forgot Eye of the North for Guild Wars though hehe...
The box artwork from ArenaNet had never really stricken me as particularly suggestive, though maybe because I'm used to worse examples of scarcely clad women on game boxes.
Doesn't the bait go for both genders though? Or is the vast majority of female gamers (actual and potential) sick and tired of being mostly given the choice of physically attractive avatars?
I'm merely curious - and only gone through a few posts.
These comments of "sex sells, get over it" seem to come from guys who have never bothered to look at this from the perspective of a prospective female gamer. Let's try it. Roleplay is fun!
OK then, I'm a female gamer. I come across a website, oh let's say MMORPG.com, that is chock full of ads for disposable free to play games. I'm looking for a game to waste some serious time in. Presuming I'm interested in a gaming role other than modeling or prostitution, that I'm looking for a virtual residence where I can squander my time whacking stuff with a sword, solving quests, helping he-damsels in distress, and maybe making stuff to better whack things with. Its the noughties. I'm a tough chick who likes to kick ass.
The ad to the immediate left of this post features a girl in a bikini with the slogan "Come and play with me." Well it turns out I'm not a lesbian and I get enough sex that I don't need a poorly animated Flash cartoon to get off. And as I keep looking, I notice that there is a predominant factor to all these ads. They're all apparently wanting me to play their games so I can shag women, maybe, if I'm lucky, after rescuing them from the dragon, although that might be optional. Or maybe I get to be the woman that gets shagged by some basement-lurking mouth-breather playing the game in Belgium. FTP games set the bar for entertainment pretty low, but even so, I feel turned off already. I think I'll go kill people in real life now.
I'm just waiting for someone to say they don't look at box-art boobies, but pick up the box for the feature list instead.
I always look at the feature list instead, but then again, I'm gay and the current marketing trends aren't targeted at me.
We are sexual beings, men and women. Sexuality is a huge part of our lives, no matter how much you try to deny it. It's only natural for someone to use it as a tool to grab your attention or sell a product or service.
Women spend just as much if not more money than men, so why aren't they getting more sexual advertising that will grab their attention? We know that it works. Remember the diet coke stud (shirtless construction worker) commercials? They drew in huge sales and garnered lots of attention.
Try watching some foreign commercials. You'd be shocked at the amount of sexuality they put into them. They aren't afraid of it and they are more than willing to target straight men, straight women and some even target gays and lesbians. I think it's funny how America, one of the leading nations of the world, is also one of the most prudish when it comes to sexuality and sexual marketing.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
A chick talking about other chick's boobs... cool...
Best line: "Nothing says combat instancing like cleavage, nipples, and leather:" - ROFL
I liked the article very much! And have to say that, as a true male heterossexual, I'm easily drawn to ads with sexy women - or parts of them. But no, it won't keep me in a flawed product.
A seductive box cover of a game in the store may not make someone buy a game, but it certainly helps to have people pick it up to see what it is, to take note of it. A good cover helps expose a game to the passerby.
At work (library), we were recently compiling checkout numbers on books. There was one boook that had 2 copies. The older copy has practically no cover art. The book is actually in better condition than the newer copy with new artwork. The checkouts on the 2 books are, 3 checkouts for the poor artwork, 36 for the newer artwork.
That didn't even deal with sex, but something visually appealing helps compared to something that is not. Of course it is not true for everyone. I buy based on supposed quality, or if it is just something that interests me. I have also discovered many things I would not have noticed because of a good cover.
Names of things do the same thing too. I probably never would have checked out dark age of camelot if not for the name. I was like hmm, camelot, dark age, lets see if this is any good.
A good cover, an intriguing name make the difference between say 600k copies sold and maybe 800k or more. The numbers are skewed of course, but the number will always be higher with a more alluring cover.
Grym: Er... neither? Last week a couple guys were bitching that it was just AWFUL of me to point out that there are huge numbers of dudes, particularly in the 18-34 range, who will seriously buy anything with tits or triggers. I was chatting about this with my editor, and we thought a little picture tour of advertising would make a fun column. Anyone who tries to fight human nature will lose. I do feel that it is silly of people within the gaming industry to sniff and say they market at men because women don't buy games in the same numbers... when the default style of marketing is clearly aimed at heterosexual males, and I couldn't resist throwing that point in there. But no adult professional gets bent out of shape at the idea that boys like boobs. It'd be like being offended that grass is green. I made a lot of snotty comments about Evony because... dude, look at the ads! I can't resist that kind of snark bait!
Agreed. The first time I saw the Evony ads I thought they were links to porn sites. Imagine my disappointment when I clicked on them. :P
Don't be upset, I find your columns to be enjoyable and offer alternative perspectives. Keep writing!
Btw, I just finished reading "The Red Queen by Matt Ridley" which explores the evolutionary reasons why men and women act the way we do. Very interesting if you have the time.
(My son speaking to his Japanese Grandmother) " Sorry Obaba, I don't speak Japanese, I only speak human."
Originally posted by Sanya Grym: Er... neither? Last week a couple guys were bitching that it was just AWFUL of me to point out that there are huge numbers of dudes, particularly in the 18-34 range, who will seriously buy anything with tits or triggers. I was chatting about this with my editor, and we thought a little picture tour of advertising would make a fun column. Anyone who tries to fight human nature will lose. I do feel that it is silly of people within the gaming industry to sniff and say they market at men because women don't buy games in the same numbers... when the default style of marketing is clearly aimed at heterosexual males, and I couldn't resist throwing that point in there. But no adult professional gets bent out of shape at the idea that boys like boobs. It'd be like being offended that grass is green. I made a lot of snotty comments about Evony because... dude, look at the ads! I can't resist that kind of snark bait!
This was an amazing article, Sanya, and it proved your original point perfectly. I just loved it.
That said...I clicked the Evony ad because I wanted to know what they wanted me to "Come play, my Lord."
That imagery attracts my attention, it does. I am not saying that's a good thing.
Of course, that's advertising. I'd like to see you do something about how, in the games, females wear armor that looks just like the ads. You will never see a fighter going toe to toe with a demon wearing some of the stuff I've seen them do exactly that in some games over the years. A thong is not exactly battle gear. I can understand it in the ads, that's money, but I think there is some serious sexism on the part of the artists when they design clothing in that way. It's no wonder there are fewer women, when even men can be disgusted by some of the vulgarity inside the games themselves.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
I'm a guy and I like breasts. I'm not the least bit ashamed to admit it. As I was reading this rather entertaining piece of writing I decided to go and look at all the box art I have on the games I've bought. Oddly enough none of them really have scantily clad women on them. Pretty much all of them have artwork relating to the game in some fashion. I actually just went through them all right now and the only one that did have a suggestive woman on it was Guild Wars. Granted a lot of those boxes were DAoC and a boat load of it's expansions but even the WoW boxes didn't have cleavage on it.
By the way I like Sanya's writing style. I got a few good laughs out of it and I look forward to more stuff like this.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
LOL I think this is one of the best threads I've read in a while, I just cannot stop but laugh about this...its so true how women are pretty much used in every ad there is out there to draw the audience. I mean I actually asked one of my friends if Envoy was some kind of a porn rpg LOL. That was an embarassing moment. But yeah, whenever a female is on a game, its really easy to draw yer eyes upon the girl then the game's name comes up and the rating and the system requirements...but its always the female character that draws me to the game,...then its the game's stats that draw me afterwards =p...
So clearly, the economy will get better if every single thing that was being sold had a female somehow a part of it...i mean..imagine big macs with beautiful females ontop of the boxes... the amount of big macs being sold would actually double or triple I imagine...
wow trash blog with trash talkback revolving around the same hackneyed comments.
the truth is that these female avatars have big boobs for the same reason they have tight asses and strong arms. everyone, men AND WOMEN prefer their characters to look striking and attractive. how many WOMEN played troll females in EQ , what's the ratio of women who play TAUREN females versus NE or BE in WOW? the metrics prove beyond doubt that women themselves prefer these attractive characters OVERWHELMINGLY to a degree equal or passing male preference when they roll these characters.
the same can be said about men. basically MMOers are losers. they might be social but honestly the higher income/athletic/get laid type of male demographic doesn't have the time to play MMOs. likewise human male avatars are strong or intimidating because 180lb 5'9" dudes dont want to log into a game where their guy has a pot belly is bald and looks as lame as they do IRL.
I'm not sure which is more LOL, the fact that Sanya complains about BOOBIES in MMOs as pandering when her very article is doing the same thing... sensationalizing tits to drive eyeballs. except what Blizzard is doing is a hundred million dollar business and her sellout involves like 500 more page hits lol.
this doesn't even ignore the fact that going back 100 years to dime store serials, there's a historical aspect of scantily clad women AND MEN in this genre, this isn't something SOE or Blizzard invented. like class archetypes, random dice rolls, grouping etc it's part and parcel of the genre. if you think BOOBS are why an 16 year old plays WOW... lmfao. guys play MMOs for social grouping, for killing other players, for accumulating digital wealth to compensate for the lack of it IRL etc etc. if you drew a list of things that motivate MMOers, tits would be about 25th on the list.
in truth every MMO from UO to WOW to KOTR SUBLIMATES the inherent sexuality AND violence in the genre. it's a disneyfication of any whisper of sex in a game that involves the SOCIAL INTERACTION of millions of adults. if anything Blizzard and others have purposefully repressed and whisper of sex in the game to move more product and appeal to kids and a wide audience. you have it ass backwards
As a girl I tell you, one of the things that gets you sometimes is the art on the boxes. Growing up playing video games, it's rampant and thrown in your face constantly.
I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but sometimes it gets to me. I have to take a step back and just stop playing for a while since it's always ...everywhere.
But, it's going to happen no matter what, so, it's not necessarily a bad thing cuz guys are guys. Not gonna change.
I think that the message here was: Men like boobs and women generally dont mind boobs.
The article had nothing to do with blaming "the male species for this predilection". The article was poking gentle fun at the phenomenon... er history if you want, of the mmo boobie prize. Not blaming it.
Oh and for b) aren't the men also being exloited here...
Yeah, I get where youre coming from. But for me, as a girl. I dont really care. Looking at box art for games, i would usually flip it over and read the back anways. But if there's too much boobage, you get the feeling that this game is compensating for something...
This witty and charming article has provided me with a new perspective on things (being male as I am) because I never saw the Guild Wars box art (hmnn leather, nipples and leather)
*ponders going off to stare at the box art but after doing his zaishen quests of course *
The Evony ads in particular are notable for this in that they go so completely over the top; the ones you linked in the article were older ones; there's one ad that they posted that was just a full-on up close shot of cleavage. Not even fantasy artwork cleavage; just cleavage in a bra, with a blurb about "best online fantasy game" or something or other. I found it funny rather than offensive, but it's not hard to see how others might be shaking their heads at it.
Comments
doesn't have the blood elf woman when you log into WoW with the breathtakingly perfect set of boobs.
Meh the imagery doesn't really buy me over, it might of when I was 9-12 years old or something but other than that I could care less what is on the advertisement...
I do my research on a game before I purchase it so this may not apply to me since the box has nothing to do with my purchase. I won't stand in a store and go "oh hawt rack! i'm gonna buy this!"
Bring back the chainmail bikini!
Boobies ftw, both rl and pixel
B ( . ) ( . ) BS !!!!!!
Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*
I don't buy everything that has titties on it. Although, like probably 99% of all heterosexual men I at least pick up the product and check it out. So the advertisers mission is almost always at least half accomplished.
DON'T JUDGE ME!!!!!!!!!! :P
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
when things go mainstream they don't sell anymore unless you put titties on them.
Funny column, you forgot Eye of the North for Guild Wars though hehe...
The box artwork from ArenaNet had never really stricken me as particularly suggestive, though maybe because I'm used to worse examples of scarcely clad women on game boxes.
Doesn't the bait go for both genders though? Or is the vast majority of female gamers (actual and potential) sick and tired of being mostly given the choice of physically attractive avatars?
I'm merely curious - and only gone through a few posts.
__________
Ever wondered what a hardcore WoW raider looked like?
R.I.P. Laura "Taera" Genender
These comments of "sex sells, get over it" seem to come from guys who have never bothered to look at this from the perspective of a prospective female gamer. Let's try it. Roleplay is fun!
OK then, I'm a female gamer. I come across a website, oh let's say MMORPG.com, that is chock full of ads for disposable free to play games. I'm looking for a game to waste some serious time in. Presuming I'm interested in a gaming role other than modeling or prostitution, that I'm looking for a virtual residence where I can squander my time whacking stuff with a sword, solving quests, helping he-damsels in distress, and maybe making stuff to better whack things with. Its the noughties. I'm a tough chick who likes to kick ass.
The ad to the immediate left of this post features a girl in a bikini with the slogan "Come and play with me." Well it turns out I'm not a lesbian and I get enough sex that I don't need a poorly animated Flash cartoon to get off. And as I keep looking, I notice that there is a predominant factor to all these ads. They're all apparently wanting me to play their games so I can shag women, maybe, if I'm lucky, after rescuing them from the dragon, although that might be optional. Or maybe I get to be the woman that gets shagged by some basement-lurking mouth-breather playing the game in Belgium. FTP games set the bar for entertainment pretty low, but even so, I feel turned off already. I think I'll go kill people in real life now.
[End roleplay]
I hope that helps.
I always look at the feature list instead, but then again, I'm gay and the current marketing trends aren't targeted at me.
We are sexual beings, men and women. Sexuality is a huge part of our lives, no matter how much you try to deny it. It's only natural for someone to use it as a tool to grab your attention or sell a product or service.
Women spend just as much if not more money than men, so why aren't they getting more sexual advertising that will grab their attention? We know that it works. Remember the diet coke stud (shirtless construction worker) commercials? They drew in huge sales and garnered lots of attention.
Try watching some foreign commercials. You'd be shocked at the amount of sexuality they put into them. They aren't afraid of it and they are more than willing to target straight men, straight women and some even target gays and lesbians. I think it's funny how America, one of the leading nations of the world, is also one of the most prudish when it comes to sexuality and sexual marketing.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
A chick talking about other chick's boobs... cool...
Best line: "Nothing says combat instancing like cleavage, nipples, and leather:" - ROFL
I liked the article very much! And have to say that, as a true male heterossexual, I'm easily drawn to ads with sexy women - or parts of them. But no, it won't keep me in a flawed product.
A seductive box cover of a game in the store may not make someone buy a game, but it certainly helps to have people pick it up to see what it is, to take note of it. A good cover helps expose a game to the passerby.
At work (library), we were recently compiling checkout numbers on books. There was one boook that had 2 copies. The older copy has practically no cover art. The book is actually in better condition than the newer copy with new artwork. The checkouts on the 2 books are, 3 checkouts for the poor artwork, 36 for the newer artwork.
That didn't even deal with sex, but something visually appealing helps compared to something that is not. Of course it is not true for everyone. I buy based on supposed quality, or if it is just something that interests me. I have also discovered many things I would not have noticed because of a good cover.
Names of things do the same thing too. I probably never would have checked out dark age of camelot if not for the name. I was like hmm, camelot, dark age, lets see if this is any good.
A good cover, an intriguing name make the difference between say 600k copies sold and maybe 800k or more. The numbers are skewed of course, but the number will always be higher with a more alluring cover.
Wow, absolutely earth shattering info....
Agreed. The first time I saw the Evony ads I thought they were links to porn sites. Imagine my disappointment when I clicked on them. :P
Don't be upset, I find your columns to be enjoyable and offer alternative perspectives. Keep writing!
Btw, I just finished reading "The Red Queen by Matt Ridley" which explores the evolutionary reasons why men and women act the way we do. Very interesting if you have the time.
(My son speaking to his Japanese Grandmother) " Sorry Obaba, I don't speak Japanese, I only speak human."
I read this thread by looking at the pictures only.
so...
This was an amazing article, Sanya, and it proved your original point perfectly. I just loved it.
That said...I clicked the Evony ad because I wanted to know what they wanted me to "Come play, my Lord."
That imagery attracts my attention, it does. I am not saying that's a good thing.
Of course, that's advertising. I'd like to see you do something about how, in the games, females wear armor that looks just like the ads. You will never see a fighter going toe to toe with a demon wearing some of the stuff I've seen them do exactly that in some games over the years. A thong is not exactly battle gear. I can understand it in the ads, that's money, but I think there is some serious sexism on the part of the artists when they design clothing in that way. It's no wonder there are fewer women, when even men can be disgusted by some of the vulgarity inside the games themselves.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
I'm a guy and I like breasts. I'm not the least bit ashamed to admit it. As I was reading this rather entertaining piece of writing I decided to go and look at all the box art I have on the games I've bought. Oddly enough none of them really have scantily clad women on them. Pretty much all of them have artwork relating to the game in some fashion. I actually just went through them all right now and the only one that did have a suggestive woman on it was Guild Wars. Granted a lot of those boxes were DAoC and a boat load of it's expansions but even the WoW boxes didn't have cleavage on it.
By the way I like Sanya's writing style. I got a few good laughs out of it and I look forward to more stuff like this.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Im 41 yo and boobs and sex and guns still work
ask me wife hehe
LOL I think this is one of the best threads I've read in a while, I just cannot stop but laugh about this...its so true how women are pretty much used in every ad there is out there to draw the audience. I mean I actually asked one of my friends if Envoy was some kind of a porn rpg LOL. That was an embarassing moment. But yeah, whenever a female is on a game, its really easy to draw yer eyes upon the girl then the game's name comes up and the rating and the system requirements...but its always the female character that draws me to the game,...then its the game's stats that draw me afterwards =p...
So clearly, the economy will get better if every single thing that was being sold had a female somehow a part of it...i mean..imagine big macs with beautiful females ontop of the boxes... the amount of big macs being sold would actually double or triple I imagine...
http://hushwolf.mybrute.com
wow trash blog with trash talkback revolving around the same hackneyed comments.
the truth is that these female avatars have big boobs for the same reason they have tight asses and strong arms. everyone, men AND WOMEN prefer their characters to look striking and attractive. how many WOMEN played troll females in EQ , what's the ratio of women who play TAUREN females versus NE or BE in WOW? the metrics prove beyond doubt that women themselves prefer these attractive characters OVERWHELMINGLY to a degree equal or passing male preference when they roll these characters.
the same can be said about men. basically MMOers are losers. they might be social but honestly the higher income/athletic/get laid type of male demographic doesn't have the time to play MMOs. likewise human male avatars are strong or intimidating because 180lb 5'9" dudes dont want to log into a game where their guy has a pot belly is bald and looks as lame as they do IRL.
I'm not sure which is more LOL, the fact that Sanya complains about BOOBIES in MMOs as pandering when her very article is doing the same thing... sensationalizing tits to drive eyeballs. except what Blizzard is doing is a hundred million dollar business and her sellout involves like 500 more page hits lol.
this doesn't even ignore the fact that going back 100 years to dime store serials, there's a historical aspect of scantily clad women AND MEN in this genre, this isn't something SOE or Blizzard invented. like class archetypes, random dice rolls, grouping etc it's part and parcel of the genre. if you think BOOBS are why an 16 year old plays WOW... lmfao. guys play MMOs for social grouping, for killing other players, for accumulating digital wealth to compensate for the lack of it IRL etc etc. if you drew a list of things that motivate MMOers, tits would be about 25th on the list.
in truth every MMO from UO to WOW to KOTR SUBLIMATES the inherent sexuality AND violence in the genre. it's a disneyfication of any whisper of sex in a game that involves the SOCIAL INTERACTION of millions of adults. if anything Blizzard and others have purposefully repressed and whisper of sex in the game to move more product and appeal to kids and a wide audience. you have it ass backwards
As a girl I tell you, one of the things that gets you sometimes is the art on the boxes. Growing up playing video games, it's rampant and thrown in your face constantly.
I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but sometimes it gets to me. I have to take a step back and just stop playing for a while since it's always ...everywhere.
But, it's going to happen no matter what, so, it's not necessarily a bad thing cuz guys are guys. Not gonna change.
I think that the message here was: Men like boobs and women generally dont mind boobs.
The article had nothing to do with blaming "the male species for this predilection". The article was poking gentle fun at the phenomenon... er history if you want, of the mmo boobie prize. Not blaming it.
Oh and for b) aren't the men also being exloited here...
Yeah, I get where youre coming from. But for me, as a girl. I dont really care. Looking at box art for games, i would usually flip it over and read the back anways. But if there's too much boobage, you get the feeling that this game is compensating for something...
This witty and charming article has provided me with a new perspective on things (being male as I am) because I never saw the Guild Wars box art (hmnn leather, nipples and leather)
*ponders going off to stare at the box art but after doing his zaishen quests of course
*
Cs Atlantis Ele/Mo 20
Angry Monster PVP char
Chris Masters W/N 20
Virtuous One Mo/Me 16
Angelica Icewind Par/War 20
Cs Babylon Der/Mo 20
Master Kramisek Rt/Me 20
I liked the article, Sanya.
The Evony ads in particular are notable for this in that they go so completely over the top; the ones you linked in the article were older ones; there's one ad that they posted that was just a full-on up close shot of cleavage. Not even fantasy artwork cleavage; just cleavage in a bra, with a blurb about "best online fantasy game" or something or other. I found it funny rather than offensive, but it's not hard to see how others might be shaking their heads at it.
Anyway, great article, was an entertaining read
I don't buy this sexist thing at all.I am so disturbed by this i'm going to watch Shania Twain's "Don't be Stupid"video
After that i need to vent by wrestling with Gina Carano
I hope i'll be able to relax after this nightmare ,Megan Fox usually comes over to watch some Taylor swift and Carrie Underwood videos with me.
This topic is so "Hot and Cold"I wonder what Katey Perry's take is on this whole scandal
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.