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Was on the fence- They pushed me off today
holdenhamlet
Member EpicPosts: 3,772
I posted this on the main forums, but I'm posting it here because I think it may get deleted for being too critical of the game.
I was on the fence about the game for the following reasons:
- Shards- There's no sense of community.
- It apparently was totally ripped off COH. I never played COH past a free trial, but a game that just totally takes everything from another game is sort of fishy.
- Items. There's a ton of items and they all seem basically the same- a mixup of stats with better items being some decimal point better than the other. None of them really stand out and everything just seems like vendor trash. In one quest reward, there are two items with identical stats just different names. Why so many crappy items? There's no reason to use an auction house assuming I could even find one in this game. No player economy = a major facet of an MMORPG missing.
- Powers. Although there are a crapload of powers, they are mostly very similar just with different animations. A ranged class plays pretty much the same as any other ranged class. Also, there aren't enough in a single tree to spend all your points on if you reach max level meaning you have to take from other trees. That's fine and might actually be fun if the stats weren't so messed up in this game and forced you to specialize heavily towards two stats, making abilities from other trees basically useless. For example, an ability that scales with strength is useless for a ranged caster that specialized in endurance and recovery. All around feels sort of thrown together and not thought through, which is not an uncommon feeling about an aspect of this game.
- PVP. There is no real point to the pvp matches I played in the first three tiers besides finding someone that didn't have invulnerability or regen (meaning their health actually went down when you attacked them) and blowing them up over and over. Also some abilities are just way too good (such as ice burst damage) and there is no successful attempt to compensate for the problems melee classes have fighting ranged. In other games, a ranged typically has really weak armor and if you can get close, he's easy. Not so in this game when everyone is basically equally strong regardless of style.
- Music. There's very little music. Something I've noticed as a recurring theme with unfinished mmorpgs is they don't bother with music. Music helps with immersion and shouldn't be just totally ignored basically besides some random areas.
- No apparent endgame.
-------------------------------------
Now, I was still almost willing to at least buy the game and try it out despite so many glaring problems because it was so incredibly casual. I leveled fast and at least I was doing different things and going to new areas as I leveled. I could possibly see it as a game I'd log in to goof around in and not really treat as a serious MMORPG.
The xp nerf today eliminates that casual feeling, leaving very little left to actually appreciate about the game.
Some people on the forum don't understand why it's such a big deal that you now have to grind on hundreds of mobs to level in the teens and twenties and maybe thousands in the 30s. The reason is that while maybe it's not such a big deal in itself, the game was already on very thin ice to begin with.
Comments
How bad was the XP nerf this time?
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
XP nerf? OMG. Can anyone say "Warhammer Online"?
Dead game walking.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
And I was almost willing to buy a six-month subscription, even though I'd probably only play for three months, in order to get the STO beta access.
They claim XP nerf was a test. That is link to developer post.
I've been doing Arenas today once the queue was fixed. Keep in mind you CANNOT listen to these newbies when they discuss PVP! Like EVE, you will die quickly if you are a scrub. And you wont kill a soul.
I'm only L11 and I've been killing L20s. I've also been winning my duels bigtime.
Don't listen to the whine about regen/invul these are from noobs that cant pvp. If I'm a low Level killing 20s then that means something. Additionally I have regen on my character and you can surely kill us.
Just skimmed over the revierw. will try to read it fully later
It might have been a test, but what was it testing?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Not to sound like a troll or anything, but you don't see this as a hint at all? Maybe the reason you do so well is the regen.
I tend to agree with most of that.
They are doing the same thing to CO that ruined COH.
They are nerfing anything that remotely stands out as decent above others. So they create a bland game that has no variety beyond what sparklies you want on the screen.
Otherwise the gameplay and graphics were nice.
it IS seriously a shame about the music considering how badass CoXs sound track was. This open beta was still the most fun I had playing an MMORPG recently (by recently I mean post-DAoC sieges so thats for like 6-7 years) and it has a lot of potential to grow so i'll stick with it.
It might have been a test, but what was it testing?
Ask them on the forums. I'm pissed too and no way id buy this game if they left it like this. But unlike the OP I'm not gonna spread misinformation. I will make sure I know what I'm talking bout before I burn them
*sigh* I must admit the XP nerf pushed me over the fence to "not buy" too. I don't want to sound too dramatic, but it as the last bit to make me cancel my order now. Its not the levelling speed in itself, its that you no always do quests higher or lower, and you always get rewards you cant use. You cant just follow one questline, say Desert or Canada, and then level as the quests come, you have to swap back and forth, and it doesnt make any sense. I am one who would want to make many alts, but with that slow levelling its no fun.
And come on, changing the XP output on the last beta day? Isnt that something you test a while? The entire beta is a story full of nerfs, first powers now XP. The xp is SO unfun to play, and there is just not enough content to make the early levels slowness worth it. Sorry, but that was just one nerf too much now.
At least I will wait a few months and see how it gets when they make the second beta... err I mean launch... =P
Wow you guys are blowing this way out of proportion and running around like Chicken Little saying the sky is falling.
They're still in beta, they're allowed to test things still. They changed the XP because people past level 20 were leveling too fast. They are still adjusting it. They needed to see how fast large numbers of people would level at the lower rate. They are fine tuning it and it will likely take a number of corrections up and down before it gets the sweet spot.
Relax, the world isn't going to end.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
People keep saying they ripped off CoH. Well, first off, if they did then they had that right. They owned the assets, but that's not quite the case here. They used CoH as a bare base to build CO with. CO is still the Champions IP though. It was not copied from CoH, and in fact CoH was based off of the Champions PnP.
Do a little reading, it helps.
Also for the record I don't mind this supposed "xp nerf" as it won't change the game much for those who know what they're doing. It's also not a big deal really since I'm sure it's not that bad...
Well I was Level 12 and thought I was screwed. And when I went to the desert and saw Level 9/10 quests were 'grey' I got extra scared. But turns out I was able to Level pretty quickly still....
However, mob xp was only like 5xp. Quests gave 3k xp. I think a person would be crazy not to do the quests since they give so much more.
anyway im now enjoying this desert area but still worried what would happen if we ran out of quests. Cause it would be painful to have to just kill mobs
Having the right to Ripp Off CoH and ACTUALLY DOING IT.... are two complete different things.
The fact is, that they ACTUALLY DID IT!
I have played CoH for a very long time and the first moment I entered the game it gave me an insta DeJaVu with CoH.
Cryptic didn't even tried to disguise this fact.
It's same the same setting all over. Cops hiding behind these roadblock fences. With a so called Supa Duppa Hero commanding them.
Zone barriers consisting of the same Shield Barriers.
But what shocked me most is the extreme instancing.
People said the zones were much much larger then CoH's, but that's not true at all. Especially not Canada and Desert.
There were like dozens of instances of Canada and Desert and people spread out over it in batches of 30'ish persons.
Just as worse as it pretty much was in Dungeons and Dragons Online.
The only positive difference between CoH and CO is that in CO you get your fast movement power (flying, surfing, jumping, running) at level 5 -6 when you leave the Tutorial and it's already fast (not like in CoH where you spend 10 levels putting enhancements in it to speed it up a bit).
The game looks pretty good when you turn off the cell shading. So it's not that bad at all. But still I think the character models in CoH look much much better and more detailed.
And with these very stupid 2-stat restrictions..... CO doesn't really provide that much more power customisation compaired to CoH at all!
All in all I was very dissapointed in CO, that Cryptic didn't really learn from CoH's bad points, seeing how these pretty much ended up in here again.
Cheers
Having the right to Ripp Off CoH and ACTUALLY DOING IT.... are two complete different things.
The fact is, that they ACTUALLY DID IT!
I have played CoH for a very long time and the first moment I entered the game it gave me an insta DeJaVu with CoH.
Cryptic didn't even tried to disguise this fact.
At first it feels similar but if you played longer you'd notice huge differences.
It's same the same setting all over. Cops hiding behind these roadblock fences. With a so called Supa Duppa Hero commanding them.
Zone barriers consisting of the same Shield Barriers.
But what shocked me most is the extreme instancing.
People said the zones were much much larger then CoH's, but that's not true at all. Especially not Canada and Desert.
You forget, in CoX everyone is an instanced mission. You never see anyone hardly running around. So even if this is true (I disagree with you let it be known)- this point is moot cause all the mission grinders are in instances anyway!
There were like dozens of instances of Canada and Desert and people spread out over it in batches of 30'ish persons.
Just as worse as it pretty much was in Dungeons and Dragons Online.
CO uses Zones very heavily but they top out around 70 at the player (beta testers) request cause they dont wanna fight oer mobs. In CoX, I distinctly recall them instancing the entire zone very often. Worse, players were always in missions so u never saw other heroes unless u went to Atlas Park. So I strongly disagree
The only positive difference between CoH and CO is that in CO you get your fast movement power (flying, surfing, jumping, running) at level 5 -6 when you leave the Tutorial and it's already fast (not like in CoH where you spend 10 levels putting enhancements in it to speed it up a bit).
Agree, way faster..... No compare
The game looks pretty good when you turn off the cell shading. So it's not that bad at all. But still I think the character models in CoH look much much better and more detailed.
Ugh, your video card weither sucks or you blinded by cox fanboism. I hope you keep playing that old game since it looks so good to your eyes lol
And with these very stupid 2-stat restrictions..... CO doesn't really provide that much more power customisation compaired to CoH at all!
What 2 stat restrictions are you serious??? You must be a major CoX fanboi. This game provides waaayyy more possible permutations. You have to be absolutely horrid at math to not see this.
All in all I was very dissapointed in CO, that Cryptic didn't really learn from CoH's bad points, seeing how these pretty much ended up in here again.
Cheers
I played CoX about 2 years. Was in a hardcore guild, etc. This post was fully inaccurate and not worth rebutting.
The XP nerf isn't a nerf. It was a special accellerated rate of exp gain for the open beta in order to allow players to see more of the game. This isn't a new concept, and getting angry or worried about what is, in truth, exp returning to normal gains is just foolish.
However, that doesn't address some of the larger issues with CO.
Having the right to Ripp Off CoH and ACTUALLY DOING IT.... are two complete different things.
The fact is, that they ACTUALLY DID IT!
I have played CoH for a very long time and the first moment I entered the game it gave me an insta DeJaVu with CoH.
Cryptic didn't even tried to disguise this fact.
At first it feels similar but if you played longer you'd notice huge differences.
It's same the same setting all over. Cops hiding behind these roadblock fences. With a so called Supa Duppa Hero commanding them.
Zone barriers consisting of the same Shield Barriers.
But what shocked me most is the extreme instancing.
People said the zones were much much larger then CoH's, but that's not true at all. Especially not Canada and Desert.
You forget, in CoX everyone is an instanced mission. You never see anyone hardly running around. So even if this is true (I disagree with you let it be known)- this point is moot cause all the mission grinders are in instances anyway!
There were like dozens of instances of Canada and Desert and people spread out over it in batches of 30'ish persons.
Just as worse as it pretty much was in Dungeons and Dragons Online.
CO uses Zones very heavily but they top out around 70 at the player (beta testers) request cause they dont wanna fight oer mobs. In CoX, I distinctly recall them instancing the entire zone very often. Worse, players were always in missions so u never saw other heroes unless u went to Atlas Park. So I strongly disagree
The only positive difference between CoH and CO is that in CO you get your fast movement power (flying, surfing, jumping, running) at level 5 -6 when you leave the Tutorial and it's already fast (not like in CoH where you spend 10 levels putting enhancements in it to speed it up a bit).
Agree, way faster..... No compare
The game looks pretty good when you turn off the cell shading. So it's not that bad at all. But still I think the character models in CoH look much much better and more detailed.
Ugh, your video card weither sucks or you blinded by cox fanboism. I hope you keep playing that old game since it looks so good to your eyes lol
And with these very stupid 2-stat restrictions..... CO doesn't really provide that much more power customisation compaired to CoH at all!
What 2 stat restrictions are you serious??? You must be a major CoX fanboi. This game provides waaayyy more possible permutations. You have to be absolutely horrid at math to not see this.
All in all I was very dissapointed in CO, that Cryptic didn't really learn from CoH's bad points, seeing how these pretty much ended up in here again.
Cheers
I played CoX about 2 years. Was in a hardcore guild, etc. This post was fully inaccurate and not worth rebutting.
LOL! You accusing me of a CoX fanboi? Look in the mirror! You are trolling litterly every post on this forum that criticizes your game!
What the heck has my videocard to do with me turning off Cell Shading, because I find that effect absolutely horrible? Just like so many who don't like that effect!
And I was talking about the CoX character models and suits themselves, not the environments. CoX character models look a lot better. Sorry.
And the 2-stat limitation. You know damn well what I meant with that. It has been discussed to death already why you have to focus on 2 stats, without gimping yourself and in return severely limits your power customization choices.
And I am in no way a CoX fanboi as I haven't played the game for over a year! Not planning to go back to it either.
Agree with this part completely. It has nothing to do with the hero theme. If the abilities operate the same what sense is there of being a super hero? I started out using shadow then tried the power armor abilities and they felt very similar, besides the first spam attack you get. The only difference being the power armor had a charge like bar that didn't seem to do anything.
They said on the forums many times that the current XP curve is not what they intended. It will be adjusted again before release. Trust me guys, Cryptic doesn't want CO to suck. They don't want people racing to max level and getting bored any more than they want it to be a never ending grind. They now have enough data to find the happy middle ground that makes it both challenging and rewards with enough rewards to keep us all entertained. That is their goal.
This is the same excuse I heard when Warhammer did it.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Is everyone crazy? This game is insanely easy to level in. I have a level 18 in a week of casual play. ( Plus 4 level 8's) When you figure the cap is, what? 40?. Although I would like to see more quests at ALL levels, because mob grinding just doesn't cut it. You need to do missions to get xp, and finding the missions for your level, scattered around the different zones, can be a pain. But anyone who thinks it is hard to level in CO has been playing easy MMOs. ( And this is one of the easiest).
Agreed, but they did take it a little too far. Nobody, including Cryptic deveopers, wants people to grind MOB's just to get to the next level.
Also, you might want to know that if you ever get stuck and can't find any missions that you can check your crime computer and it will direct you to whatever missions are available that you have no completed.
Agree with this part completely. It has nothing to do with the hero theme. If the abilities operate the same what sense is there of being a super hero? I started out using shadow then tried the power armor abilities and they felt very similar, besides the first spam attack you get. The only difference being the power armor had a charge like bar that didn't seem to do anything.
You guys are obviously not playing long enough if you say this. I have played Powered armor, Shadow powers, and Gadgeteer. Each of their ranged power has distinctily different effects and upgrades.
Give you an example:
Shadow bolt : goes out like small bolts doing shadow damage and has the ability to induce fear for a few seconds. Upgrades to the bolt can increase damage and fear effect.
Sonic Blaster (Gadgeteer): Goes out in a steady stream with a little less range than a bolt. Upgrades can turn it into a cone hitting multiple enemies and has a small percentage of turning the targets into a miniature toy for a short time. (sometimes a pink teddy bear)
That is just two examples. You might think they are the same because they start off as your basic energy builder ranged attack but if you pay attention you will quickly find they are not. All powers have unique buffs, debuffs and adds.
They never promised they would change it back. Here is latest dev post
I guess this is how most MMOs work. They usually seek to extend the progression as much as possible because they fear people would leave once they hit end game. Since there is no end game content I cant help but not trust them in this regard.
Debating should I maintain my preorder or wait a couple of weeks post-launch and see how things turn out
City of Heroes also lacked a strong end game however it was great fun making alts. But I never got the impression Cryptic put much value into that