- Powers. Although there are a crapload of powers, they are mostly very similar just with different animations. A ranged class plays pretty much the same as any other ranged class. Also, there aren't enough in a single tree to spend all your points on if you reach max level meaning you have to take from other trees. That's fine and might actually be fun if the stats weren't so messed up in this game and forced you to specialize heavily towards two stats, making abilities from other trees basically useless. For example, an ability that scales with strength is useless for a ranged caster that specialized in endurance and recovery. All around feels sort of thrown together and not thought through, which is not an uncommon feeling about an aspect of this game.
Agree with this part completely. It has nothing to do with the hero theme. If the abilities operate the same what sense is there of being a super hero? I started out using shadow then tried the power armor abilities and they felt very similar, besides the first spam attack you get. The only difference being the power armor had a charge like bar that didn't seem to do anything.
If you cant tell the difference between those two sets then there is no point in me wasting time posting a rebuttal
Check out the Level 40 event today and see if you still think this is true
I always love the people who insist that "the game is still in beta" or "you didn't play long enough to get to the fun stuff!" Pffft! This game releases in one week. What you see is what you're going to get and it's a rotten, shriveled carrot-on-a-stick you supporters are dangling trying to convince people that the later gameplay is anything drastically different from what is experience right out of the tutorial area. If you want to spend money for a cobbled-together attempt to salvage the remains of Marvel Universe Online, then feel free, it's your money. I'm done spending my cash on sentimental overtures.
There's an old saying:
"Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining"
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
I found the XP "return" to be just right. The game went from easy to solo to fairly tough, requiring a lot more thought and effort. I still managed to go through the first "dungeon" (Radiation vault) solo. It was tough on a squishy sorcerer that I felt a major sense of accomplishment when I finished but wasn't so tough that I was frustrated.
While it was true that I was under-level on many quests in the second set of desert quests, I still managed them. And it did encourage grouping; there were a lot more groups running around and cooperating than previously in the open beta. By the time I ran low on available desert quests (I was 1 level too low to get the last few "boss" quests), I was also receiving multiple quests to head to Millennium City (not that I did). Remembering all the complaints about grinding, I decided to see how long it'd take to grind up to next level... then noticed the open mission. Did that once and got enough XP to level, did the boss missions (the talisman one was a fun challenge at 2 levels low!) and headed to Millennium City for some turn-ins then off to Canada.
I've quickly noticed that the Open Missions are located at enough levels (at least in the pre-20 content I've seen) that one can usually do those a couple times to make up XP difference from quests.
I can't comment on the comparisons to CoX, as I've never played that game... in fact, it never really interested me. CO on the other hand is very tempting to subscribe to, even if I still like other games more.
The nerf on XP was pretty dramatic, but the previous OB XP made things way too easy. Most of the time you were 2-3 levels above the quest level. I think if they raise it about 10 to 15% people will be at the sweet spot on quests.
Now, some things I do like about CO:
If the game window isn't in focus when switching instances, you'll receive a 'press any key' message before it completely loads the instance (presumably your character is in limbo during that time) but chat continues so you don't miss any messages.
A lot of character customization at the beginning, you can get your character to look the way you want at the start (unlike most of the games I've played).
While many of the powers in different trees have the same results, the mechanics of their usage are different. My gunslinger's ranged attacks have different mechanics than my sorcerer's and my supernatural's.
Not having to worry about keeping a name unique... I saw two Raven's in the powerhouse at the same time, both very different in powers and focus (though, interestingly enough, they had the same hairstyle...)
Friends List integrates with the website.
The death penalty is a loss in bonuses you otherwise have, instead of a loss in basic character abilities.
The game seems to have a very long idle-out, if it has one at all... I've yet to be idled out. Getting set AFK only takes a few minutes though. (EDIT: A hah! 30 minutes to idle out)
I've actually grown to like the instancing. It makes for a single-server environment, with many players visible in each area but things are usually not over-crowded. There seems to be one or two quests in each area that are very competitive for quest objects--but seem to be designed so to encourage groups to form (I've heard several others in-game commenting on this as well). And if there's a mob you really want to kill that someone else just did, you can switch to another instance and see if it's there. Unlike AoC (the only other heavily instanced game I've played), it's also very easy to see what instance you're in; it is displayed in a number of areas.
I've received great support during the OB--maybe they're putting in an extra effort, maybe not--with every support ticket not only answered within a couple hours but answered to my satisfaction.
The open nature of bug tickets--maybe it's just for the OB--but I really like it. This is the first MMO I've played where I can actually see bug tickets submitted by others.
I freaking love the travel powers. They add a level of fun I've not seen in a long time.
There are numerous things I don't like about CO, but only one is a game-breaker. I've met more rude, impolite, and just plain obnoxious people in this game during the OB than in another other game save F2Ps (including AoC--that'll say something to some people!). There's been a bunch of great people, don't get me wrong, but the bad apples are particularly spoiled. Fortunately, they stay out of chat.
The other major thing is there doesn't seem to be a way to communicate across shards. Unless someone is in your friend's list, chances are you won't see them or even know they're online, even if they're actually doing the same quests.
The above is just my own opinions and observations. Your mileage may vary.
I always love the people who insist that "the game is still in beta" or "you didn't play long enough to get to the fun stuff!" Pffft! This game releases in one week. What you see is what you're going to get and it's a rotten, shriveled carrot-on-a-stick you supporters are dangling trying to convince people that the later gameplay is anything drastically different from what is experience right out of the tutorial area. If you want to spend money for a cobbled-together attempt to salvage the remains of Marvel Universe Online, then feel free, it's your money. I'm done spending my cash on sentimental overtures. There's an old saying: "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining"
I don't think it is a matter of playing "Until you get to the fun stuff" It is a matter of playing until you are able to understand the game and see what it is all about. The fact people feel the first ranged attacks are all the same are an example of that.
Let's take Aion for example. If you only play to level 5 or so you would think the world is small and the combat is repetative and typical of most MMOs (activate power, wait for cool down, rinse and repeat). Only until you pass level 10 do you start to really see the difference in the game and see the world open up. You then start getting multiple combo attacks and then at 20th you start in on the PVPVE stuff and the game changes radically.
it is the same with CO. If you never get out of the tutorial and subsequent Crisis zones, and you don't see some of the additions and differences in the powers you have not experienced the game, which in my opinion, is fun.
I tend to agree with most of that. They are doing the same thing to CO that ruined COH. They are nerfing anything that remotely stands out as decent above others. So they create a bland game that has no variety beyond what sparklies you want on the screen. Otherwise the gameplay and graphics were nice.
I'm not sure but it sounds like you are promoting class imbalance which I would think makes sense to do. Why would they want something to "stand out" from the other parts of the game I don't think anyone does this and for obvious reason. Just as I think the op mentioned "a ranged class is no different than another ranged class so what's the difference". I may be somehow missing both your meanings but that's how it sounds to me.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Originally posted by PatchDay Originally posted by Aganazer They said on the forums many times that the current XP curve is not what they intended. It will be adjusted again before release. Trust me guys, Cryptic doesn't want CO to suck. They don't want people racing to max level and getting bored any more than they want it to be a never ending grind. They now have enough data to find the happy middle ground that makes it both challenging and rewards with enough rewards to keep us all entertained. That is their goal.
They never promised they would change it back. Here is latest dev post I guess this is how most MMOs work. They usually seek to extend the progression as much as possible because they fear people would leave once they hit end game. Since there is no end game content I cant help but not trust them in this regard.
Debating should I maintain my preorder or wait a couple of weeks post-launch and see how things turn out
City of Heroes also lacked a strong end game however it was great fun making alts. But I never got the impression Cryptic put much value into that
ALWAYS wait to buy these games, they NEVER launch "finished", first few months are ALWAYS extended paid betas for the money-men. The history of this genre of gaming is absolutely clear.
They said on the forums many times that the current XP curve is not what they intended. It will be adjusted again before release. Trust me guys, Cryptic doesn't want CO to suck. They don't want people racing to max level and getting bored any more than they want it to be a never ending grind. They now have enough data to find the happy middle ground that makes it both challenging and rewards with enough rewards to keep us all entertained. That is their goal.
They never promised they would change it back. Here is latest dev post
I guess this is how most MMOs work. They usually seek to extend the progression as much as possible because they fear people would leave once they hit end game. Since there is no end game content I cant help but not trust them in this regard.
Debating should I maintain my preorder or wait a couple of weeks post-launch and see how things turn out
City of Heroes also lacked a strong end game however it was great fun making alts. But I never got the impression Cryptic put much value into that
ALWAYS wait to buy these games, they NEVER launch "finished", first few months are ALWAYS extended paid betas for the money-men. The history of this genre of gaming is absolutely clear.
I really got attached to my character in beta so to be honest my common sense is totally not functioning atm. This is wisdom
I tend to agree with most of that. They are doing the same thing to CO that ruined COH. They are nerfing anything that remotely stands out as decent above others. So they create a bland game that has no variety beyond what sparklies you want on the screen. Otherwise the gameplay and graphics were nice.
I'm not sure but it sounds like you are promoting class imbalance which I would think makes sense to do. Why would they want something to "stand out" from the other parts of the game I don't think anyone does this and for obvious reason. Just as I think the op mentioned "a ranged class is no different than another ranged class so what's the difference". I may be somehow missing both your meanings but that's how it sounds to me.
I thought we established the ranged Classes vary vastly. I mean completely different. A Force user is so remotely different from an Ice user its not funny. Come on guys the OP is totally wrong here.
I can understand if he hated the combat system (let it be known I love it)
I can understand if he hates XP nerf. I would feel that (but keep in mind the xp nerf the devs have yet to confirm if it would stick I posted links)
Hell I'd agree the pvp has no point (at least the lowbie cage arenas, although I find them a fun diversion with a lil xp on the side)
But in this regards I firmly disagree. An eye beam coming from your eyes is totally different from fire aoe attacks
I posted this on the main forums, but I'm posting it here because I think it may get deleted for being too critical of the game.
I was on the fence about the game for the following reasons:
- Shards- There's no sense of community.
- It apparently was totally ripped off COH. I never played COH past a free trial, but a game that just totally takes everything from another game is sort of fishy.
[color=red]No CoH did not do this, this way. But this concept is not new and if you dislike this stop playing mmos because more and more are going to be shard based as they are perfect for balance reasons.
The game makes up for this in allowign you to pick the cshards and see where your firends and team members are and move there with no issues.[/red]
- Items. There's a ton of items and they all seem basically the same- a mixup of stats with better items being some decimal point better than the other. None of them really stand out and everything just seems like vendor trash. In one quest reward, there are two items with identical stats just different names. Why so many crappy items? There's no reason to use an auction house assuming I could even find one in this game. No player economy = a major facet of an MMORPG missing.
[color=red]Wrong and wrong.
Items are not the same and you get them for 80% of the quests which is NICE. wwmore often than not you'll have 3 of two stats and then all 4-5 items will have different groupings which si nice seeign as YOU PICK YOUR MAIN STATS in this game. Than and many items have special abilities (you can use them like powers), other give certain abilities you have procs (hp heals, damage, energy back , etc), others have resistance bonuses or max hp or energy %, but many of these do not have has many stats as they are quite powerful.
Additionally, you can make item via crafting end game or high level you make custom items picking quality, stats, slot, etc.[/red]
- Powers. Although there are a crapload of powers, they are mostly very similar just with different animations. A ranged class plays pretty much the same as any other ranged class. Also, there aren't enough in a single tree to spend all your points on if you reach max level meaning you have to take from other trees. That's fine and might actually be fun if the stats weren't so messed up in this game and forced you to specialize heavily towards two stats, making abilities from other trees basically useless. For example, an ability that scales with strength is useless for a ranged caster that specialized in endurance and recovery. All around feels sort of thrown together and not thought through, which is not an uncommon feeling about an aspect of this game.
[color=red]If you disagree with me before, in this one you cannot. This is part is a plain LIE.
There are almost no repeat powers. All of them have different effects and uses. Whats even more amazig is that two seemingly similar powers synergize totaly differently.[/red]
- PVP. There is no real point to the pvp matches I played in the first three tiers besides finding someone that didn't have invulnerability or regen (meaning their health actually went down when you attacked them) and blowing them up over and over. Also some abilities are just way too good (such as ice burst damage) and there is no successful attempt to compensate for the problems melee classes have fighting ranged. In other games, a ranged typically has really weak armor and if you can get close, he's easy. Not so in this game when everyone is basically equally strong regardless of style.
[color=red]Ice Burst is weak, its almost funny that your complaining about it. (never used it outside of powerhouse, but 800 damage at 40 isn't much).
I coudl see people not likeing pvp, i really enjoyed the apocolyps matches at 40. i even like the utc matchs LAVA is fun too making knockback moves even more powerful. But whats fun about pvp in this game is that you never know what your goign to get. Sometimes your fightign peopel that have spent no time developing a powerset that is strong. Others come up with synergies that you never see coming.
The fighting itself is never static, alot of abilities are cone, or pbaoe so you need to move to utilize them , others are next attack, or combos, you get roots, holds, kockbacks, kockups, knockdowns, etc.
As for defensive slotted passives (regen, invulni, defiance, pff, lr) These are NEEDed for pvp, but that doesn't mean you cannot use offensive ones i quite frequently switch in pvp when someone starts attackign me and by doing this when im not gettign attack i have 80% more damage and 20% more energy regen. Also invuli is trash. Regen is just ok (get field bots, and a heal and a self heal or lifetap and defaince or pff or lr are better than invuli and regen. REgen builds are easy to kill with a few abilities.)
Interestign enough there are strengths and weakness to all the defensive slotted passives. Pff are weaker to fast attackign small damage, invulni is weaker to big hits, defiance and regen are weak to massive alpha strikes (regen is weak to massive dps, in general).[/red]
- Music. There's very little music. Something I've noticed as a recurring theme with unfinished mmorpgs is they don't bother with music. Music helps with immersion and shouldn't be just totally ignored basically besides some random areas.
[color=red]I would like a better music score. [/red]
- No apparent endgame.
[color=red]Anyone playing today would disagree i believe, more so if they tried out unity missions.[/red]
-------------------------------------
Now, I was still almost willing to at least buy the game and try it out despite so many glaring problems because it was so incredibly casual. I leveled fast and at least I was doing different things and going to new areas as I leveled. I could possibly see it as a game I'd log in to goof around in and not really treat as a serious MMORPG.
The xp nerf today eliminates that casual feeling, leaving very little left to actually appreciate about the game.
Some people on the forum don't understand why it's such a big deal that you now have to grind on hundreds of mobs to level in the teens and twenties and maybe thousands in the 30s. The reason is that while maybe it's not such a big deal in itself, the game was already on very thin ice to begin with.
[color=red]Personally felt lvling was too fast, but ill have too see. For me the games a blast just to kill mobs. [/red]
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
They said on the forums many times that the current XP curve is not what they intended. It will be adjusted again before release. Trust me guys, Cryptic doesn't want CO to suck. They don't want people racing to max level and getting bored any more than they want it to be a never ending grind. They now have enough data to find the happy middle ground that makes it both challenging and rewards with enough rewards to keep us all entertained. That is their goal.
They never promised they would change it back. Here is latest dev post
I guess this is how most MMOs work. They usually seek to extend the progression as much as possible because they fear people would leave once they hit end game. Since there is no end game content I cant help but not trust them in this regard.
Debating should I maintain my preorder or wait a couple of weeks post-launch and see how things turn out
City of Heroes also lacked a strong end game however it was great fun making alts. But I never got the impression Cryptic put much value into that
They did promise that they would change it. Antiproton said "we need to adjust it up to hit that target". I don't want it back exactly like it was before, but I am relatively certain that they want players to be able to complete quests to keep up on experience without having to resort to MOB grinding.
ALWAYS wait to buy these games, they NEVER launch "finished", first few months are ALWAYS extended paid betas for the money-men. The history of this genre of gaming is absolutely clear.
I've been telling people the same thing for a long long time. I totally agree, but right now there just isn't anything else to play that I haven't already played to death. Aion is too familiar for me to get any enjoyment out of and Fallen Earth is much less polished than CO.
The XP nerf isn't a nerf. It was a special accellerated rate of exp gain for the open beta in order to allow players to see more of the game. This isn't a new concept, and getting angry or worried about what is, in truth, exp returning to normal gains is just foolish. However, that doesn't address some of the larger issues with CO.
If this were true, then the quest rewards I am getting wouldn't be 2 levels too high for me to use.
While I agree that the XP gain needed to be toned down a bit, I think they overshot the mark. My only real issue with the nerf is that this is the LAST DAY OF OPEN BETA. This is NOT the time to be making such a drastic change, considering the time left to test it. Just a bonehead move is all. IMO, if they increase the XP gain around 30% from where it is now, it will be a pretty decent pace.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
The XP nerf isn't a nerf. It was a special accellerated rate of exp gain for the open beta in order to allow players to see more of the game. This isn't a new concept, and getting angry or worried about what is, in truth, exp returning to normal gains is just foolish. However, that doesn't address some of the larger issues with CO.
If this were true, then the quest rewards I am getting wouldn't be 2 levels too high for me to use.
While I agree that the XP gain needed to be toned down a bit, I think they overshot the mark. My only real issue with the nerf is that this is the LAST DAY OF OPEN BETA. This is NOT the time to be making such a drastic change, considering the time left to test it. Just a bonehead move is all. IMO, if they increase the XP gain around 30% from where it is now, it will be a pretty decent pace.
They did it last minute with Warhammer Online too. Somehow these developers seem to get on the fence and go into an all out panic and think bluntly nerfing the XP gain just before launch, while you don't even have the content for it!
Completely idiotic! Basically what you get is like in WAR, that you were forced to do quests over all three different pairings and were doing green / nearly grey quests just to be able to get enough XP to level up.
Half the rewards you got were too low level and completely useless.
Same is going to happen in CO. Not to mention that rolling ALT's is going to be an utter chore, because due to such extreme XP nerfs they create a lack of content and so you are forced to do litterly the exact same as you did before with your first char.
Really really stupid!
And today with the End of Beta event is pretty much Epic Fail lol. Servers keep crashing. Login Servers can't cope.
The XP nerf isn't a nerf. It was a special accellerated rate of exp gain for the open beta in order to allow players to see more of the game. This isn't a new concept, and getting angry or worried about what is, in truth, exp returning to normal gains is just foolish. However, that doesn't address some of the larger issues with CO.
If this were true, then the quest rewards I am getting wouldn't be 2 levels too high for me to use.
While I agree that the XP gain needed to be toned down a bit, I think they overshot the mark. My only real issue with the nerf is that this is the LAST DAY OF OPEN BETA. This is NOT the time to be making such a drastic change, considering the time left to test it. Just a bonehead move is all. IMO, if they increase the XP gain around 30% from where it is now, it will be a pretty decent pace.
They did it last minute with Warhammer Online too. Somehow these developers seem to get on the fence and go into an all out panic and think bluntly nerfing the XP gain just before launch, while you don't even have the content for it!
Completely idiotic! Basically what you get is like in WAR, that you were forced to do quests over all three different pairings and were doing green / nearly grey quests just to be able to get enough XP to level up.
Half the rewards you got were too low level and completely useless.
Same is going to happen in CO. Not to mention that rolling ALT's is going to be an utter chore, because due to such extreme XP nerfs they create a lack of content and so you are forced to do litterly the exact same as you did before with your first char.
Really really stupid!
And today with the End of Beta event is pretty much Epic Fail lol. Servers keep crashing. Login Servers can't cope.
And they gonna start with Head start in 2 days.
Good luck. Cryptic will need it!
Oddly all the posters statements in this specific thread almost mirror the ones in Hellgate at the time of launch. Is this perhaps the curse of Bill Roper at work again? Will CO fans get "Flagshipped"? God I hope not... was looking forward to CO
The XP nerf isn't a nerf. It was a special accellerated rate of exp gain for the open beta in order to allow players to see more of the game. This isn't a new concept, and getting angry or worried about what is, in truth, exp returning to normal gains is just foolish. However, that doesn't address some of the larger issues with CO.
If this were true, then the quest rewards I am getting wouldn't be 2 levels too high for me to use.
While I agree that the XP gain needed to be toned down a bit, I think they overshot the mark. My only real issue with the nerf is that this is the LAST DAY OF OPEN BETA. This is NOT the time to be making such a drastic change, considering the time left to test it. Just a bonehead move is all. IMO, if they increase the XP gain around 30% from where it is now, it will be a pretty decent pace.
They did it last minute with Warhammer Online too. Somehow these developers seem to get on the fence and go into an all out panic and think bluntly nerfing the XP gain just before launch, while you don't even have the content for it!
Completely idiotic! Basically what you get is like in WAR, that you were forced to do quests over all three different pairings and were doing green / nearly grey quests just to be able to get enough XP to level up.
Half the rewards you got were too low level and completely useless.
Same is going to happen in CO. Not to mention that rolling ALT's is going to be an utter chore, because due to such extreme XP nerfs they create a lack of content and so you are forced to do litterly the exact same as you did before with your first char.
Really really stupid!
And today with the End of Beta event is pretty much Epic Fail lol. Servers keep crashing. Login Servers can't cope.
And they gonna start with Head start in 2 days.
Good luck. Cryptic will need it!
I agree with everything this guy wrote here. Frak man I really wanted a nice, simple little casual MMO to play alongside EVE Online. It felt good to have a real 'avatar'.
Why did they have to go ruin such a great experience with this. This is exactly what I had to do- on my L12 character I had to go farm L9 and L10 quests
Completely stupid change
Had no idea WAR did this as well. Exact same thing huh? This is lame man
Xp was fine, people who are proclaiming the death of the game , are idiots. Anyone who is going to listen to idiots, really shouldn't play Champions Online. Maybe this will be the second game in my collection to finally have an idiotless community. Woot ! Have fun in WoW grinding to yet another level increase
At least has Quests to get people to their next level. People are gonna quit in droves just like they did when CoX launched. History is gonna repeat itself.
When CoX launched it had 200k subs and ever since then it spiraled to what it is today. The only upwards spike that game ever had was CoV expansion
They should try to appeal to as many superhero fans they can. It is business sense. Can't listen to the minority that just loves ot do same shit over and over. Not everyone wants to kill mobs for 5xp when they got 65k xp to earn
They claim XP nerf was a test. That is link to developer post.
It might have been a test, but what was it testing?
The game has a max lvl of 40 This is a low cap.. At the rate you were lvling before it was far to easy (sure it was kinda fun) but when quests start turning grey because you are lvling way to fast there needs to be a nerf .
The XP nerf isn't a nerf. It was a special accellerated rate of exp gain for the open beta in order to allow players to see more of the game. This isn't a new concept, and getting angry or worried about what is, in truth, exp returning to normal gains is just foolish. However, that doesn't address some of the larger issues with CO.
If this were true, then the quest rewards I am getting wouldn't be 2 levels too high for me to use.
While I agree that the XP gain needed to be toned down a bit, I think they overshot the mark. My only real issue with the nerf is that this is the LAST DAY OF OPEN BETA. This is NOT the time to be making such a drastic change, considering the time left to test it. Just a bonehead move is all. IMO, if they increase the XP gain around 30% from where it is now, it will be a pretty decent pace.
Yes I agree with this guy here too. screw it I gotta rush to gamestop and cancel my preorder later. I'm forced to wait a few weeks to see how this goes down now.
Comments
Agree with this part completely. It has nothing to do with the hero theme. If the abilities operate the same what sense is there of being a super hero? I started out using shadow then tried the power armor abilities and they felt very similar, besides the first spam attack you get. The only difference being the power armor had a charge like bar that didn't seem to do anything.
If you cant tell the difference between those two sets then there is no point in me wasting time posting a rebuttal
Check out the Level 40 event today and see if you still think this is true
I always love the people who insist that "the game is still in beta" or "you didn't play long enough to get to the fun stuff!" Pffft! This game releases in one week. What you see is what you're going to get and it's a rotten, shriveled carrot-on-a-stick you supporters are dangling trying to convince people that the later gameplay is anything drastically different from what is experience right out of the tutorial area. If you want to spend money for a cobbled-together attempt to salvage the remains of Marvel Universe Online, then feel free, it's your money. I'm done spending my cash on sentimental overtures.
There's an old saying:
"Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining"
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
I found the XP "return" to be just right. The game went from easy to solo to fairly tough, requiring a lot more thought and effort. I still managed to go through the first "dungeon" (Radiation vault) solo. It was tough on a squishy sorcerer that I felt a major sense of accomplishment when I finished but wasn't so tough that I was frustrated.
While it was true that I was under-level on many quests in the second set of desert quests, I still managed them. And it did encourage grouping; there were a lot more groups running around and cooperating than previously in the open beta. By the time I ran low on available desert quests (I was 1 level too low to get the last few "boss" quests), I was also receiving multiple quests to head to Millennium City (not that I did). Remembering all the complaints about grinding, I decided to see how long it'd take to grind up to next level... then noticed the open mission. Did that once and got enough XP to level, did the boss missions (the talisman one was a fun challenge at 2 levels low!) and headed to Millennium City for some turn-ins then off to Canada.
I've quickly noticed that the Open Missions are located at enough levels (at least in the pre-20 content I've seen) that one can usually do those a couple times to make up XP difference from quests.
I can't comment on the comparisons to CoX, as I've never played that game... in fact, it never really interested me. CO on the other hand is very tempting to subscribe to, even if I still like other games more.
The nerf on XP was pretty dramatic, but the previous OB XP made things way too easy. Most of the time you were 2-3 levels above the quest level. I think if they raise it about 10 to 15% people will be at the sweet spot on quests.
Now, some things I do like about CO:
If the game window isn't in focus when switching instances, you'll receive a 'press any key' message before it completely loads the instance (presumably your character is in limbo during that time) but chat continues so you don't miss any messages.
A lot of character customization at the beginning, you can get your character to look the way you want at the start (unlike most of the games I've played).
While many of the powers in different trees have the same results, the mechanics of their usage are different. My gunslinger's ranged attacks have different mechanics than my sorcerer's and my supernatural's.
Not having to worry about keeping a name unique... I saw two Raven's in the powerhouse at the same time, both very different in powers and focus (though, interestingly enough, they had the same hairstyle...)
Friends List integrates with the website.
The death penalty is a loss in bonuses you otherwise have, instead of a loss in basic character abilities.
The game seems to have a very long idle-out, if it has one at all... I've yet to be idled out. Getting set AFK only takes a few minutes though. (EDIT: A hah! 30 minutes to idle out)
I've actually grown to like the instancing. It makes for a single-server environment, with many players visible in each area but things are usually not over-crowded. There seems to be one or two quests in each area that are very competitive for quest objects--but seem to be designed so to encourage groups to form (I've heard several others in-game commenting on this as well). And if there's a mob you really want to kill that someone else just did, you can switch to another instance and see if it's there. Unlike AoC (the only other heavily instanced game I've played), it's also very easy to see what instance you're in; it is displayed in a number of areas.
I've received great support during the OB--maybe they're putting in an extra effort, maybe not--with every support ticket not only answered within a couple hours but answered to my satisfaction.
The open nature of bug tickets--maybe it's just for the OB--but I really like it. This is the first MMO I've played where I can actually see bug tickets submitted by others.
I freaking love the travel powers. They add a level of fun I've not seen in a long time.
There are numerous things I don't like about CO, but only one is a game-breaker. I've met more rude, impolite, and just plain obnoxious people in this game during the OB than in another other game save F2Ps (including AoC--that'll say something to some people!). There's been a bunch of great people, don't get me wrong, but the bad apples are particularly spoiled. Fortunately, they stay out of chat.
The other major thing is there doesn't seem to be a way to communicate across shards. Unless someone is in your friend's list, chances are you won't see them or even know they're online, even if they're actually doing the same quests.
The above is just my own opinions and observations. Your mileage may vary.
-w
I don't think it is a matter of playing "Until you get to the fun stuff" It is a matter of playing until you are able to understand the game and see what it is all about. The fact people feel the first ranged attacks are all the same are an example of that.
Let's take Aion for example. If you only play to level 5 or so you would think the world is small and the combat is repetative and typical of most MMOs (activate power, wait for cool down, rinse and repeat). Only until you pass level 10 do you start to really see the difference in the game and see the world open up. You then start getting multiple combo attacks and then at 20th you start in on the PVPVE stuff and the game changes radically.
it is the same with CO. If you never get out of the tutorial and subsequent Crisis zones, and you don't see some of the additions and differences in the powers you have not experienced the game, which in my opinion, is fun.
I'm not sure but it sounds like you are promoting class imbalance which I would think makes sense to do. Why would they want something to "stand out" from the other parts of the game I don't think anyone does this and for obvious reason. Just as I think the op mentioned "a ranged class is no different than another ranged class so what's the difference". I may be somehow missing both your meanings but that's how it sounds to me.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
They never promised they would change it back. Here is latest dev post
I guess this is how most MMOs work. They usually seek to extend the progression as much as possible because they fear people would leave once they hit end game. Since there is no end game content I cant help but not trust them in this regard.
Debating should I maintain my preorder or wait a couple of weeks post-launch and see how things turn out
City of Heroes also lacked a strong end game however it was great fun making alts. But I never got the impression Cryptic put much value into that
ALWAYS wait to buy these games, they NEVER launch "finished", first few months are ALWAYS extended paid betas for the money-men. The history of this genre of gaming is absolutely clear.
They never promised they would change it back. Here is latest dev post
I guess this is how most MMOs work. They usually seek to extend the progression as much as possible because they fear people would leave once they hit end game. Since there is no end game content I cant help but not trust them in this regard.
Debating should I maintain my preorder or wait a couple of weeks post-launch and see how things turn out
City of Heroes also lacked a strong end game however it was great fun making alts. But I never got the impression Cryptic put much value into that
ALWAYS wait to buy these games, they NEVER launch "finished", first few months are ALWAYS extended paid betas for the money-men. The history of this genre of gaming is absolutely clear.
I really got attached to my character in beta so to be honest my common sense is totally not functioning atm. This is wisdom
I'm not sure but it sounds like you are promoting class imbalance which I would think makes sense to do. Why would they want something to "stand out" from the other parts of the game I don't think anyone does this and for obvious reason. Just as I think the op mentioned "a ranged class is no different than another ranged class so what's the difference". I may be somehow missing both your meanings but that's how it sounds to me.
I thought we established the ranged Classes vary vastly. I mean completely different. A Force user is so remotely different from an Ice user its not funny. Come on guys the OP is totally wrong here.
I can understand if he hated the combat system (let it be known I love it)
I can understand if he hates XP nerf. I would feel that (but keep in mind the xp nerf the devs have yet to confirm if it would stick I posted links)
Hell I'd agree the pvp has no point (at least the lowbie cage arenas, although I find them a fun diversion with a lil xp on the side)
But in this regards I firmly disagree. An eye beam coming from your eyes is totally different from fire aoe attacks
Originally posted by holdenhamlet
I posted this on the main forums, but I'm posting it here because I think it may get deleted for being too critical of the game.
I was on the fence about the game for the following reasons:
- Shards- There's no sense of community.
- It apparently was totally ripped off COH. I never played COH past a free trial, but a game that just totally takes everything from another game is sort of fishy.
[color=red]No CoH did not do this, this way. But this concept is not new and if you dislike this stop playing mmos because more and more are going to be shard based as they are perfect for balance reasons.
The game makes up for this in allowign you to pick the cshards and see where your firends and team members are and move there with no issues.[/red]
- Items. There's a ton of items and they all seem basically the same- a mixup of stats with better items being some decimal point better than the other. None of them really stand out and everything just seems like vendor trash. In one quest reward, there are two items with identical stats just different names. Why so many crappy items? There's no reason to use an auction house assuming I could even find one in this game. No player economy = a major facet of an MMORPG missing.
[color=red]Wrong and wrong.
Items are not the same and you get them for 80% of the quests which is NICE. wwmore often than not you'll have 3 of two stats and then all 4-5 items will have different groupings which si nice seeign as YOU PICK YOUR MAIN STATS in this game. Than and many items have special abilities (you can use them like powers), other give certain abilities you have procs (hp heals, damage, energy back , etc), others have resistance bonuses or max hp or energy %, but many of these do not have has many stats as they are quite powerful.
Additionally, you can make item via crafting end game or high level you make custom items picking quality, stats, slot, etc.[/red]
- Powers. Although there are a crapload of powers, they are mostly very similar just with different animations. A ranged class plays pretty much the same as any other ranged class. Also, there aren't enough in a single tree to spend all your points on if you reach max level meaning you have to take from other trees. That's fine and might actually be fun if the stats weren't so messed up in this game and forced you to specialize heavily towards two stats, making abilities from other trees basically useless. For example, an ability that scales with strength is useless for a ranged caster that specialized in endurance and recovery. All around feels sort of thrown together and not thought through, which is not an uncommon feeling about an aspect of this game.
[color=red]If you disagree with me before, in this one you cannot. This is part is a plain LIE.
There are almost no repeat powers. All of them have different effects and uses. Whats even more amazig is that two seemingly similar powers synergize totaly differently.[/red]
- PVP. There is no real point to the pvp matches I played in the first three tiers besides finding someone that didn't have invulnerability or regen (meaning their health actually went down when you attacked them) and blowing them up over and over. Also some abilities are just way too good (such as ice burst damage) and there is no successful attempt to compensate for the problems melee classes have fighting ranged. In other games, a ranged typically has really weak armor and if you can get close, he's easy. Not so in this game when everyone is basically equally strong regardless of style.
[color=red]Ice Burst is weak, its almost funny that your complaining about it. (never used it outside of powerhouse, but 800 damage at 40 isn't much).
I coudl see people not likeing pvp, i really enjoyed the apocolyps matches at 40. i even like the utc matchs LAVA is fun too making knockback moves even more powerful. But whats fun about pvp in this game is that you never know what your goign to get. Sometimes your fightign peopel that have spent no time developing a powerset that is strong. Others come up with synergies that you never see coming.
The fighting itself is never static, alot of abilities are cone, or pbaoe so you need to move to utilize them , others are next attack, or combos, you get roots, holds, kockbacks, kockups, knockdowns, etc.
As for defensive slotted passives (regen, invulni, defiance, pff, lr) These are NEEDed for pvp, but that doesn't mean you cannot use offensive ones i quite frequently switch in pvp when someone starts attackign me and by doing this when im not gettign attack i have 80% more damage and 20% more energy regen. Also invuli is trash. Regen is just ok (get field bots, and a heal and a self heal or lifetap and defaince or pff or lr are better than invuli and regen. REgen builds are easy to kill with a few abilities.)
Interestign enough there are strengths and weakness to all the defensive slotted passives. Pff are weaker to fast attackign small damage, invulni is weaker to big hits, defiance and regen are weak to massive alpha strikes (regen is weak to massive dps, in general).[/red]
- Music. There's very little music. Something I've noticed as a recurring theme with unfinished mmorpgs is they don't bother with music. Music helps with immersion and shouldn't be just totally ignored basically besides some random areas.
[color=red]I would like a better music score. [/red]
- No apparent endgame.
[color=red]Anyone playing today would disagree i believe, more so if they tried out unity missions.[/red]
-------------------------------------
Now, I was still almost willing to at least buy the game and try it out despite so many glaring problems because it was so incredibly casual. I leveled fast and at least I was doing different things and going to new areas as I leveled. I could possibly see it as a game I'd log in to goof around in and not really treat as a serious MMORPG.
The xp nerf today eliminates that casual feeling, leaving very little left to actually appreciate about the game.
Some people on the forum don't understand why it's such a big deal that you now have to grind on hundreds of mobs to level in the teens and twenties and maybe thousands in the 30s. The reason is that while maybe it's not such a big deal in itself, the game was already on very thin ice to begin with.
[color=red]Personally felt lvling was too fast, but ill have too see. For me the games a blast just to kill mobs. [/red]
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
They never promised they would change it back. Here is latest dev post
I guess this is how most MMOs work. They usually seek to extend the progression as much as possible because they fear people would leave once they hit end game. Since there is no end game content I cant help but not trust them in this regard.
Debating should I maintain my preorder or wait a couple of weeks post-launch and see how things turn out
City of Heroes also lacked a strong end game however it was great fun making alts. But I never got the impression Cryptic put much value into that
They did promise that they would change it. Antiproton said "we need to adjust it up to hit that target". I don't want it back exactly like it was before, but I am relatively certain that they want players to be able to complete quests to keep up on experience without having to resort to MOB grinding.
So what, different effects, same feel. Boring.
ALWAYS wait to buy these games, they NEVER launch "finished", first few months are ALWAYS extended paid betas for the money-men. The history of this genre of gaming is absolutely clear.
I've been telling people the same thing for a long long time. I totally agree, but right now there just isn't anything else to play that I haven't already played to death. Aion is too familiar for me to get any enjoyment out of and Fallen Earth is much less polished than CO.
/me agree with the op.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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If this were true, then the quest rewards I am getting wouldn't be 2 levels too high for me to use.
While I agree that the XP gain needed to be toned down a bit, I think they overshot the mark. My only real issue with the nerf is that this is the LAST DAY OF OPEN BETA. This is NOT the time to be making such a drastic change, considering the time left to test it. Just a bonehead move is all. IMO, if they increase the XP gain around 30% from where it is now, it will be a pretty decent pace.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
If this were true, then the quest rewards I am getting wouldn't be 2 levels too high for me to use.
While I agree that the XP gain needed to be toned down a bit, I think they overshot the mark. My only real issue with the nerf is that this is the LAST DAY OF OPEN BETA. This is NOT the time to be making such a drastic change, considering the time left to test it. Just a bonehead move is all. IMO, if they increase the XP gain around 30% from where it is now, it will be a pretty decent pace.
They did it last minute with Warhammer Online too. Somehow these developers seem to get on the fence and go into an all out panic and think bluntly nerfing the XP gain just before launch, while you don't even have the content for it!
Completely idiotic! Basically what you get is like in WAR, that you were forced to do quests over all three different pairings and were doing green / nearly grey quests just to be able to get enough XP to level up.
Half the rewards you got were too low level and completely useless.
Same is going to happen in CO. Not to mention that rolling ALT's is going to be an utter chore, because due to such extreme XP nerfs they create a lack of content and so you are forced to do litterly the exact same as you did before with your first char.
Really really stupid!
And today with the End of Beta event is pretty much Epic Fail lol. Servers keep crashing. Login Servers can't cope.
And they gonna start with Head start in 2 days.
Good luck. Cryptic will need it!
If this were true, then the quest rewards I am getting wouldn't be 2 levels too high for me to use.
While I agree that the XP gain needed to be toned down a bit, I think they overshot the mark. My only real issue with the nerf is that this is the LAST DAY OF OPEN BETA. This is NOT the time to be making such a drastic change, considering the time left to test it. Just a bonehead move is all. IMO, if they increase the XP gain around 30% from where it is now, it will be a pretty decent pace.
They did it last minute with Warhammer Online too. Somehow these developers seem to get on the fence and go into an all out panic and think bluntly nerfing the XP gain just before launch, while you don't even have the content for it!
Completely idiotic! Basically what you get is like in WAR, that you were forced to do quests over all three different pairings and were doing green / nearly grey quests just to be able to get enough XP to level up.
Half the rewards you got were too low level and completely useless.
Same is going to happen in CO. Not to mention that rolling ALT's is going to be an utter chore, because due to such extreme XP nerfs they create a lack of content and so you are forced to do litterly the exact same as you did before with your first char.
Really really stupid!
And today with the End of Beta event is pretty much Epic Fail lol. Servers keep crashing. Login Servers can't cope.
And they gonna start with Head start in 2 days.
Good luck. Cryptic will need it!
Oddly all the posters statements in this specific thread almost mirror the ones in Hellgate at the time of launch. Is this perhaps the curse of Bill Roper at work again? Will CO fans get "Flagshipped"? God I hope not... was looking forward to CO
If this were true, then the quest rewards I am getting wouldn't be 2 levels too high for me to use.
While I agree that the XP gain needed to be toned down a bit, I think they overshot the mark. My only real issue with the nerf is that this is the LAST DAY OF OPEN BETA. This is NOT the time to be making such a drastic change, considering the time left to test it. Just a bonehead move is all. IMO, if they increase the XP gain around 30% from where it is now, it will be a pretty decent pace.
They did it last minute with Warhammer Online too. Somehow these developers seem to get on the fence and go into an all out panic and think bluntly nerfing the XP gain just before launch, while you don't even have the content for it!
Completely idiotic! Basically what you get is like in WAR, that you were forced to do quests over all three different pairings and were doing green / nearly grey quests just to be able to get enough XP to level up.
Half the rewards you got were too low level and completely useless.
Same is going to happen in CO. Not to mention that rolling ALT's is going to be an utter chore, because due to such extreme XP nerfs they create a lack of content and so you are forced to do litterly the exact same as you did before with your first char.
Really really stupid!
And today with the End of Beta event is pretty much Epic Fail lol. Servers keep crashing. Login Servers can't cope.
And they gonna start with Head start in 2 days.
Good luck. Cryptic will need it!
I agree with everything this guy wrote here. Frak man I really wanted a nice, simple little casual MMO to play alongside EVE Online. It felt good to have a real 'avatar'.
Why did they have to go ruin such a great experience with this. This is exactly what I had to do- on my L12 character I had to go farm L9 and L10 quests
Completely stupid change
Had no idea WAR did this as well. Exact same thing huh? This is lame man
So what, different effects, same feel. Boring.
You are wrong but we could go all day debating stuff that makes no diff. This XP nerf is all i care bout. I dont give a fuck about this trival stuff
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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At least has Quests to get people to their next level. People are gonna quit in droves just like they did when CoX launched. History is gonna repeat itself.
When CoX launched it had 200k subs and ever since then it spiraled to what it is today. The only upwards spike that game ever had was CoV expansion
They should try to appeal to as many superhero fans they can. It is business sense. Can't listen to the minority that just loves ot do same shit over and over. Not everyone wants to kill mobs for 5xp when they got 65k xp to earn
It might have been a test, but what was it testing?
The game has a max lvl of 40 This is a low cap.. At the rate you were lvling before it was far to easy (sure it was kinda fun) but when quests start turning grey because you are lvling way to fast there needs to be a nerf .
So what, different effects, same feel. Boring.
You are wrong but we could go all day debating stuff that makes no diff. This XP nerf is all i care bout. I dont give a fuck about this trival stuff
Having to be 40 to experience any sense of difference is not trivial. And you cared enough to quote me didn't you.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
If this were true, then the quest rewards I am getting wouldn't be 2 levels too high for me to use.
While I agree that the XP gain needed to be toned down a bit, I think they overshot the mark. My only real issue with the nerf is that this is the LAST DAY OF OPEN BETA. This is NOT the time to be making such a drastic change, considering the time left to test it. Just a bonehead move is all. IMO, if they increase the XP gain around 30% from where it is now, it will be a pretty decent pace.
Yes I agree with this guy here too. screw it I gotta rush to gamestop and cancel my preorder later. I'm forced to wait a few weeks to see how this goes down now.